Dating a Divorced, Older Man
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Versicolour wrote: »I am a 37 year old divorced woman. Not a man, so perhaps my opinion is worthless. But from where I stand, I can understand his feelings. He was betrayed by someone he got close to. He opened himself up completely and got his heart ripped out and pureed and poured over a compost heap. Although it has been 2 years since the divorce, this is not something that he will forget in a hurry or get over, unless he didn't care about his ex at all. The next time around (i.e., you) he is not going to be able to open himself up to the potential of such pain as easily. If at all. He is holding himself back so that he doesn't fall head over heels for you. So although he is an amazing guy, he really is not on the same page as you are. He is not feeling the same things you are. He is jaded and afraid of history repeating itself.
Or I may be completely wrong. But that is just what I am getting from what you've said he's said
Heck, I was divorced from an unfaithful ex-wife in 2005, and I get where this man is coming from.
You have to decide what you are willing to live with. If I read this right, he's not mistreating you, just not giving you everything you need or want.
Just be honest and say you need more, and if he's not ready to do that, it's best that you part on good terms for the sake of both you and him.
No shame in that game. No blame. Meet him where he is and if where he is doesn't work for you, nothing wrong with that.
You also state you don't have much experience, so maybe you need some more "data" in terms of experience with others. McDonalds will seem like a gourmet meal to a starving person. So if you were starving, relationally speaking, what little he offers may seem like more than it is because you don't have the experience to know any better.
You have an opportunity here. You can share that you need more AND ask him what he needs. If he steps up and validates what you need, he may be a keeper. I'm not saying to expect perfection, but you can watch to see if he's willing to grow and accommodate you.
Then decide based on if he's willing to put in the effort or not.5 -
swagoner94 wrote: »I’m not even wanting to change him. He’s seriously the best guy ever!! He’s genuine and kind. Beautiful soul. I’m not trying to change his core being... I’m asking for him to vocalize how he’s already feeling every now and then. Everyone has stuff to work on. He’s told me long ago that words of affirmation is what he needs but has always been hard for him to give. His love language is acts of service. That’s not easy for me to give, but because I care for him, I work at it and try to and it’s become more and more natural for me to do that. But of course the issue seems more deeply rooted for him that just practicing something that’s always been hard for him to do. It’s obviously engrained in some hurt from his past.
Changing people means any type of change. For example, how you are wanting him to communicate. So, I am sure that if he changed the way he communicated with you, you would feel more secure. Change is change. Now, all I can say is that you feel he is the absolute best and you don't want to change him, then you have made your decision and you should not have any issues. Maybe if you change the way you understand him and learn how he communicates, then you would feel much better. It all boils down to you.. how you want to proceed, what makes you happy, and so on.2 -
I keep reading this and some of this sounds familiar.
OP I married older. When we met he was at a different place in life and so was I. He had some crap to work through, never talked about it. I had my own crap to work through and sometimes not at the same time. He was 100% present in our relationship everyday, he has always done 'tangible' things for me, never really verbalized it so I thought he was not feeling the same thing in the beginning, it was one of those insecurities I had for a while. Mine is still not a talker, it took us years to develop communication skills, but in my heart I know he loved me with every fiber of his being, he still does.
Maybe your guy is a different communicator than you are and he expresses love for you in other ways. He is out of a divorce so he is really guarded and he has laid out all what he is having issues with and seems to be fairly upfront with that. This is not your fault, you are just in the middle of this, maybe he is asking you for a little more patience. Patience if you don't have it, this will teach you for sure.
I think give it some time, listen to your heart. If he still pulls on your heart strings he is doing something right.5 -
You remind me of my sisters.
So I am going to tell you what I would tell them, and hope that you really think about it.
I understand your reference to the 5 Love Languages. Words of Affirmation is one of mine as well.
Does he understand the love languages and how they are useful in a relationship?
If he does, but doesn't use them because he doesn't want to give "false hope", then he isn't interested in making this relationship work.
If he has been in a "committed" relationship with you for 9 months, but says he doesn't want "commitment" then he is not interested in making this work.
If he talks about wanting to want marriage, but then doesn't really want marriage again because he is "jaded", then he is not interested in making this work.
I won't say he is a bad person and stringing you along.
I am sure he genuinely cares for you and doesn't want to hurt you. That may be the reason he can't give you a definite yes or no. Just a bunch of "maybe"s and "We'll see"s.
I would suggest making a friendly break. He knows where you stand. He doesn't know where HE stands. And that makes it difficult for you to know where you stand with him. He answers you without answers. He talks in circles because he doesn't want to lose you.
My sister was the same at your age. Settled, good job, she traveled a bit, but she ultimately wanted to settle down and get married. Have a family. That was her dream. But she made sure to watch for these red flags.
And this guy is throwing red flags all over the place. He is just mixing them up with the good stuff, so they don't look so red.....
He isn't ready. And while you aren't ready to get married tomorrow, you also don't want to wait around for a year or two, or three, only to find out he doesn't want to get married at all, or he met someone else.
If you continue, this will hurt you more than it will hurt him. If you end it, you have a chance of finding someone else, and maybe he will figure things out faster. Or maybe not. But that's for him to do.
Don't wait.
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If this is the beginning of the relationship then the big wonderful gestures come easy. Its the honeymoon period. Those tail off eventually for every relationship and if he isn't giving you anything else then what are you going to be left with?3
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I see you keep defending him even though it’s pretty clear he can’t say the words you long to hear. To be frank I think this relationship does not have legs for this reason alone. Not because of your relative youth and not because you are young.
Be your mature independent self and set this guy free. You both are great people who deserve to be happier.4 -
You are young and inexperienced to deal with his situation. Appreciate his honesty. Ultimately you are going to have to decide if this is what you want long term.1
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I keep reading this and some of this sounds familiar.
OP I married older. When we met he was at a different place in life and so was I. He had some crap to work through, never talked about it. I had my own crap to work through and sometimes not at the same time. He was 100% present in our relationship everyday, he has always done 'tangible' things for me, never really verbalized it so I thought he was not feeling the same thing in the beginning, it was one of those insecurities I had for a while. Mine is still not a talker, it took us years to develop communication skills, but in my heart I know he loved me with every fiber of his being, he still does.
Maybe your guy is a different communicator than you are and he expresses love for you in other ways. He is out of a divorce so he is really guarded and he has laid out all what he is having issues with and seems to be fairly upfront with that. This is not your fault, you are just in the middle of this, maybe he is asking you for a little more patience. Patience if you don't have it, this will teach you for sure.
I think give it some time, listen to your heart. If he still pulls on your heart strings he is doing something right.
This is helpful. I know verbal communication of feelings anyways is not as easy for him as actions are. He gives gifts. He does things for me. I often feel he loves me. It’s me that needs that verbal affirmation from time to time. He has asked for patience and I’ve been giving it to him. Trying to keep being patient.3 -
You remind me of my sisters.
So I am going to tell you what I would tell them, and hope that you really think about it.
I understand your reference to the 5 Love Languages. Words of Affirmation is one of mine as well.
Does he understand the love languages and how they are useful in a relationship?
If he does, but doesn't use them because he doesn't want to give "false hope", then he isn't interested in making this relationship work.
If he has been in a "committed" relationship with you for 9 months, but says he doesn't want "commitment" then he is not interested in making this work.
If he talks about wanting to want marriage, but then doesn't really want marriage again because he is "jaded", then he is not interested in making this work.
I won't say he is a bad person and stringing you along.
I am sure he genuinely cares for you and doesn't want to hurt you. That may be the reason he can't give you a definite yes or no. Just a bunch of "maybe"s and "We'll see"s.
I would suggest making a friendly break. He knows where you stand. He doesn't know where HE stands. And that makes it difficult for you to know where you stand with him. He answers you without answers. He talks in circles because he doesn't want to lose you.
My sister was the same at your age. Settled, good job, she traveled a bit, but she ultimately wanted to settle down and get married. Have a family. That was her dream. But she made sure to watch for these red flags.
And this guy is throwing red flags all over the place. He is just mixing them up with the good stuff, so they don't look so red.....
He isn't ready. And while you aren't ready to get married tomorrow, you also don't want to wait around for a year or two, or three, only to find out he doesn't want to get married at all, or he met someone else.
If you continue, this will hurt you more than it will hurt him. If you end it, you have a chance of finding someone else, and maybe he will figure things out faster. Or maybe not. But that's for him to do.
Don't wait.
Thank you. I’d love to hear something different haha but this does makes sense and I appreciate your advice.2 -
swagoner94 wrote: »Hey MFP Fam:
I’m 23, dating a 36 year old man that was divorced two years ago after about 3 years of dating and 2 years of marriage. The woman was unfaithful and their marriage quickly deteriorated to the point of divorce.
I’ve only dated one other person and obviously have less life experience on him. However, I’m crazy about him and he’s the greatest guy in the world. I honestly can’t imagine someone having him and being able to throw him away.
We’ve been seeing each other for 9 months and it’s been pretty great. Unfortunately, I’ve been getting insecure and unsettled by the lack of verbal affirmation from him. Words of Affirmation is one of my top “Love Languages.” However, he says he has a hard time giving verbal affirmation because he doesn’t want to give me any false hope. He says he is essentially jaded and has commitment issues. He isn’t even sure he wants to be married again. He is wrestling with it and says he cares deeply about me but just needs to figure this out. This is a sentiment he only recently shared. I was clear that marriage is my end goal. He’s not hesitant to spend time with me, date me, or be physically affectionate with me... but he can’t verbally affirm me...
I’m trying to understand something I truly can’t fully grasp - I realize that. But someone please help me understand. This makes me feel so insecure and I hate feeling like my head over heels affections are not reciprocated. I often tell him so many affirming things about him with little in return. My feelings are unconditional and I don’t express them TO get them in return, but I can’t be sustained mentally or emotionally without it ever! I’ve expressed this as well. He says he’ll need to mull this over and see if that’s something he can give me despite his hesitancy with commitment.
Am I just a transitional relationship? A pit stop along his journey to recovery? He’s so amazing; should I ride this out and keep trying to exercise patience in the hopes that MAYBE he will choose me and be able to affirm me? Am I silly for feeling I need that?
How is marriage going to change your relationship with him one way or another?1 -
If this is the beginning of the relationship then the big wonderful gestures come easy. Its the honeymoon period. Those tail off eventually for every relationship and if he isn't giving you anything else then what are you going to be left with?
Yep. I do feel I need other forms of expression of his love. I feel like I’m constantly trying to show my love for him in all the ways I can! Words of affirmation, gifts, acts of service, physical touch... the whole thing!1 -
Are you prepared to be in a relationship where you never receive words of affirmation? If you need them that badly, then that may need to be your deal breaker.
Sit down and think a bit about what is a deal breaker for you. Maybe he'll decide to commit, but he's already said that he struggles with words of affirmation. If that's the case, then I wouldn't count on him changing that any time soon, if ever.
In fact, I think you should count on him NOT changing (because people rarely do), and decide whether you can see yourself being happy in the long term. It's already been 9 months and you are struggling to the point where it's affecting your self esteem. Do you really want this for another year? Five years? Ten years?
Also... like someone else says... it sounds like he cares for you, but he just isn't ready to commit to you. He may not want to lose you, but he doesn't sound like he's willing (or able right now) to do what it takes to really connect with and keep you. I'm not putting him down, so I hope it doesn't sound like that, but really.. it sounds like your heart would be better served walking away now.
Good luck.2 -
Does he understand the love languages and how they are useful in a relationship?
If he does, but doesn't use them because he doesn't want to give "false hope", then he isn't interested in making this relationship work.
If he has been in a "committed" relationship with you for 9 months, but says he doesn't want "commitment" then he is not interested in making this work.
If he talks about wanting to want marriage, but then doesn't really want marriage again because he is "jaded", then he is not interested in making this work.
All of this. 9 months together, you’ve told him what you need from him, and he still can’t give you that verbal affirmation? He’s not likely to ever start doing so.
As for knowing who you are and being mature and independent and all of that? I was exactly like you at 23. I was a single mom of a little boy, had a great job, and was 100% sure I knew what I wanted my life to look like in 5/10/15 years and a year later, married someone whose visions were the same whose best qualities were that he was nice to me, was good with my kid, and had a decent job. 14 years and 3 kids together later, I do love him, but we’ve been on the edge of divorce several times because our ideas of what we want from life have both changed immensely as we’ve gone from being 24 and 28 to nearly 38 and 42. We were sure we wanted exactly the same life back then. As we continued to grow up, though, we’ve developed drastically different opinions and preferences for everything from where to live to what to eat to how to parent and balance money to what we do with our spare time and how much time a couple should spend together.
I can’t say that I’d go back in time and tell myself to take a different path, but there are definitely times when both of us wonder what our lives would be like/if we’d be happier if we hadn’t married. My advice to you and everyone your age don’t be in a rush, don’t settle for someone who can’t be what you really want, and don’t convince yourself that your personality and desires today are what they will always be.8 -
I don't jump in on Chit-Chat conversations frequently, but now that the filter is broken I can see the threads again. You seem like a very mature 23 year old. I know this because I have a 23yr old. Just the fact that you have read relationship books prior to being in a committed relationship and seem to do a very good job of communicating your needs is very commendable. And I've been super impressed at your calm and rational response to everyone's replies.
Here's what I'm seeing though. You came here asking for advice when you really wanted people to validate the decision you had already made which was to stay with him and hope that he one day decides to want marriage and begins offering you words of affirmation. I get that you are crazy in love with him and he sounds like a really good guy who was hurt very badly. But he also sounds like a guy who wants to have his cake and eat it too. Meaning he is (maybe not intentionally) stringing you along. As others have mentioned, he's giving you just enough to keep up hope and keep the relationship going. I know you don't want to hear this, but I think you guys need to break things off. Give it a time period, say 6 months or a year. Give each other permission to see other people and then revisit how you feel about each other after that time period. I think you may find that he realizes just what he has in you and what he risks by not being totally present in the relationship. I think you may have to sacrifice short term happiness to risk winning your long term goal.11 -
swagoner94 wrote: »Am I just a transitional relationship? A pit stop along his journey to recovery? He’s so amazing; should I ride this out and keep trying to exercise patience in the hopes that MAYBE he will choose me and be able to affirm me? Am I silly for feeling I need that?
Any of those are possible. He is out of a toxic long term commitment, he is getting his needs fulfilled without having any commitment, so why move back that direction. Personally, if the relationship isn't working for your needs I would say move on and don't give it everything for only something in return.
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from a older perspective here. When you are 60, he will be 72. You may end up having to care for him. Love is blind and age is something to consider. My suggestion is the explore life more and see if you bump into Mr. Right along the path... good luck young lady!4
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swagoner94 wrote: »SuperOrganism2 wrote: »I personally feel as though you will be a lot happier to find somebody closer to your age. You are still very young and growing as a person.
He will find somebody of his own cohort.
Look out carefully for your own interests...perhaps at 30 you will want children.
He will be in a very different place emotionally in most likelihood.
I suggest a quick, clean break. Spend some personal time to heal, and then move on and do not look back.
He'll be fine. He's older, and will be able to deal with the shock...unlike you will be...at 30...to discover that your 20s are now gone and your cohort has all gotten married and had their children.
Best wishes, and good luck.
I would not even worry about your love styles or whatnot...if I was you. It's not a perfect match for you emotionally, which means the other concrete factors which weigh against the wisdom of the relationship recommend against it.
I know 12 years is a large age gap and I acknowledge that I am young and have more “growing up” to do. However, we’ve never felt the age difference - apart from him having a far more vivid recollection of Hanson. Our personalities and compatibility align well. I’m not a totally stereotypical 23 year old. We are coworkers, I have a stable job and support myself in LA. I think I’m a little beyond my years and we are quite in sync despite the age gap. I don’t know that the age difference is the sole cause of our problem. So I think the solution doesn’t need to be a clean break based on that alone. I’m hoping someone can just give me a clearer peak into the mind of a 36 year old divorced man so I can better understand where he is coming from and empathize best. I don’t reject your opinion. Thanks for sharing it. I’m just hoping that not all advice will hang on the age gap!
I don’t see that age gap as an issue at. Of course each individual is different but the age alone to me is not an issue.2 -
CoffeeAndContour wrote: »Imo if he truly cared for you in the ways in which you want him to then he'd make a effort at attempting what you need. I am sure even baby steps would be appreciated by him. I can not answer the why's. But I do know that you should not have to settle when it comes to your base needs. If he can't work with you on this, then I would move along. I do however, hope he comes around.
Well put0 -
I have just asked my friend's fiance, in his mid thirties, once divorced, who is prepping to marry my friend, his fiancee ( he asked her 3 years ago. They're saving up for her dream wine country wedding) later this year. She's a good friend. He is like a brother to me.
He said, if he were in his late 20's and was to divulge his sentiments you've shared, then you should wait. Being that he and your man are of an age, mid thirties, he affirmed that men KNOW what they want and how to communicate it at that age. You cannot ask him to give you more than he is ready to share with you. Take your relationship as it stands. See it through, as something that will highly likely not develop more than what you currently share/have with him. If you want more, find another man.
He actually laughed when I'd shared that you claimed, your man was perfect but for the clashing love languages. He stated, that your man isn't as perfect as you'd like him to be, because he just IS NOT the man who sees you in a more permanent role IN HIS life. You see him as your FOREVER ... Only you might be his RIGHT NOW. And his right now might be forever, just not within the scope of YOUR forever.
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skctilidie wrote: »Does he understand the love languages and how they are useful in a relationship?
If he does, but doesn't use them because he doesn't want to give "false hope", then he isn't interested in making this relationship work.
If he has been in a "committed" relationship with you for 9 months, but says he doesn't want "commitment" then he is not interested in making this work.
If he talks about wanting to want marriage, but then doesn't really want marriage again because he is "jaded", then he is not interested in making this work.
All of this. 9 months together, you’ve told him what you need from him, and he still can’t give you that verbal affirmation? He’s not likely to ever start doing so.
As for knowing who you are and being mature and independent and all of that? I was exactly like you at 23. I was a single mom of a little boy, had a great job, and was 100% sure I knew what I wanted my life to look like in 5/10/15 years and a year later, married someone whose visions were the same whose best qualities were that he was nice to me, was good with my kid, and had a decent job. 14 years and 3 kids together later, I do love him, but we’ve been on the edge of divorce several times because our ideas of what we want from life have both changed immensely as we’ve gone from being 24 and 28 to nearly 38 and 42. We were sure we wanted exactly the same life back then. As we continued to grow up, though, we’ve developed drastically different opinions and preferences for everything from where to live to what to eat to how to parent and balance money to what we do with our spare time and how much time a couple should spend together.
I can’t say that I’d go back in time and tell myself to take a different path, but there are definitely times when both of us wonder what our lives would be like/if we’d be happier if we hadn’t married. My advice to you and everyone your age don’t be in a rush, don’t settle for someone who can’t be what you really want, and don’t convince yourself that your personality and desires today are what they will always be.
I know people always change. Life changes and can change our courses. We change our minds. Our likes and interests and dislikes change. People come in and out of our lives and that affects change. However, because he is 36, I think the frequency or polarity of those changes won't be crazy drastic. Either way, I acknowledge these changes and my perception of marriage and love is one that embraces that reality; It isn't an ideal that is delusional about the seasons of change, but one that vows to continue to figure it out together until only death do us part. It is one thing to picture it and say it, and another to live it. Another reality I know. But that's why I take marriage so seriously and wouldn't enter that kind of covenant unless I absolutely knew that I could prefer the other's needs over mine sometimes and choose to figure stuff out with them no matter what.1
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