Does everyone still use the bmi scale??
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serindipte wrote: »CarvedTones wrote: »serindipte wrote: »Something to consider regarding the BMI scale:
[excerpt]
Rather, the studies generally suggest that people with a BMI of 25 to 29.9 -- which is considered overweight but not obese -- have a survival advantage over people with higher or lower BMIs.
[excerpt]
In the newly published study, researchers used data from an ongoing Canadian national health survey to follow more than 11,000 adults from the mid-1990s to 2007.
Compared to people who fell into the normal-weight category:
Those classified as underweight were 73% more likely to die.
Those classified as extremely obese with BMI of 35 or greater were 36% more likely to die.
Those classified as obese with BMI 30-34.9 had about the same risk of death.
Those classified as overweight with BMI 25-29.9 were 17% less likely to die.
Source: https://www.webmd.com/diet/news/20090625/study-overweight-people-live-longer#1
Largely debunked and not recent, but the news media keeps recycling it.
Here is a much larger more recent study:
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/press-releases/overweight-obesity-mortality-risk/
[excerpt]
For the new study, consortium researchers looked at data from more than 10.6 million participants from 239 large studies, conducted between 1970 and 2015, in 32 countries. A combined 1.6 million deaths were recorded across these studies, in which participants were followed for an average of 14 years. For the primary analyses, to address potential biases caused by smoking and preexisting diseases, the researchers excluded participants who were current or former smokers, those who had chronic diseases at the beginning of the study, and any who died in the first five years of follow-up, so that the group they analyzed included 4 million adults. They looked at participants’ body mass index (BMI)—an indicator of body fat calculated by dividing a person’s weight in kilograms by their height in meters squared (kg/m2).
The results showed that participants with BMI of 22.5-<25 kg/m2 (considered a healthy weight range) had the lowest mortality risk during the time they were followed. The risk of mortality increased significantly throughout the overweight range: a BMI of 25-<27.5 kg/m2 was associated with a 7% higher risk of mortality; a BMI of 27.5-<30 kg/m2 was associated with a 20% higher risk; a BMI of 30.0-<35.0 kg/m2 was associated with a 45% higher risk; a BMI of 35.0-<40.0 kg/m2 was associated with a 94% higher risk; and a BMI of 40.0-<60.0 kg/m2 was associated with a nearly three-fold risk. Every 5 units higher BMI above 25 kg/m2 was associated with about 31% higher risk of premature death. Participants who were underweight also had a higher mortality risk.
Thank you. I'd never seen the update.
The media still loves the old one. Nobody clicks on headlines that make sense.3 -
mulecanter wrote: »I was skeptical of BMI until I got to the healthy range, turns out it was right.
Me too. I thought I was an outlier. Turns out I was still just too fat.
Agreed. Me too. I thought it didn't apply to me because I couldn't even imagine myself at such a low weight. Turns out, I can be in the "normal" range and I love it.
People with high muscle mass disparage it and say it's bogus, subjective, etc. Fine, you already count macros and can shed a pound on command, you know you're not overweight, move on. But for a non-bodybuilder, overweight or obese individual with no idea what weight to shoot for, it can be a useful tool.22 -
I rationalized it was too low. "When I was healthy, I was above it. I can never get that low and maintain it." Yet here I am, feeling great and below 25 for about 3 months so far.9
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Hungry_Shopgirl wrote: »mulecanter wrote: »I was skeptical of BMI until I got to the healthy range, turns out it was right.
Me too. I thought I was an outlier. Turns out I was still just too fat.
Agreed. Me too. I thought it didn't apply to me because I couldn't even imagine myself at such a low weight. Turns out, I can be in the "normal" range and I love it.
People with high muscle mass disparage it and say it's bogus, subjective, etc. Fine, you already count macros and can shed a pound on command, you know you're not overweight, move on. But for a non-bodybuilder, overweight or obese individual with no idea what weight to shoot for, it can be a useful tool.
Yes body builders can have high BMI and not be overweight. But if BMI is assessed in conjunction with clinical picture ie the actual body of the patient, then this is obvious
Just like it was obvious to both my doctor and myself that my bmi of 28 was not because I was an outlier with large amount of lean muscle - it was plain old because I was overweight.
Same of course for other outliers with unusual body shapes - amputees, people with dwarfism etc. obviously their BMI is altered by that.
But I'm sure people know if that applies to them.
If not, chances are that bmi range does apply fairly accurately.
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workinonit1956 wrote: »My doctor uses it. Now that I’m literally 2 pounds from the top of “normal BMI”, I can see how getting more toward the middle of it will be where I’ll look/feel best. I also always thought I had a “large frame” but I’ve come to the realization that it was just fat all along. I stopped deluding myself.
You aren't the only one. My 'large frame' miraculously disappeared with my weight also.17 -
Lillymoo01 wrote: »workinonit1956 wrote: »My doctor uses it. Now that I’m literally 2 pounds from the top of “normal BMI”, I can see how getting more toward the middle of it will be where I’ll look/feel best. I also always thought I had a “large frame” but I’ve come to the realization that it was just fat all along. I stopped deluding myself.
You aren't the only one. My 'large frame' miraculously disappeared with my weight also.
Hey, siblings! ...yeah. I do legitimately have large hips, but it turns out I also have a small ribcage and teeny waist. I’m about to hit the top of the ‘normal’ BMI range - and there’s still plenty of fat available to burn.8 -
paperpudding wrote: »Hungry_Shopgirl wrote: »mulecanter wrote: »I was skeptical of BMI until I got to the healthy range, turns out it was right.
Me too. I thought I was an outlier. Turns out I was still just too fat.
Agreed. Me too. I thought it didn't apply to me because I couldn't even imagine myself at such a low weight. Turns out, I can be in the "normal" range and I love it.
People with high muscle mass disparage it and say it's bogus, subjective, etc. Fine, you already count macros and can shed a pound on command, you know you're not overweight, move on. But for a non-bodybuilder, overweight or obese individual with no idea what weight to shoot for, it can be a useful tool.
Yes body builders can have high BMI and not be overweight. But if BMI is assessed in conjunction with clinical picture ie the actual body of the patient, then this is obvious
Just like it was obvious to both my doctor and myself that my bmi of 28 was not because I was an outlier with large amount of lean muscle - it was plain old because I was overweight.
Same of course for other outliers with unusual body shapes - amputees, people with dwarfism etc. obviously their BMI is altered by that.
But I'm sure people know if that applies to them.
If not, chances are that bmi range does apply fairly accurately.
Risking opening a can of worms, but I have heard more than one medical professional voice the opinion that bodybuilding and other forms of extreme fitness are not healthy and there is some evidence for that opinion being valid:
https://www.renalandurologynews.com/aua-2016-misc-urinary-problems/mortality-rate-higher-among-bodybuilders/article/495038/
[excerpt]
Bodybuilders have a mortality rate 34% higher than that of the age-matched U.S. male population, according to a study presented at the American Urological Association's 2016 annual meeting.
[me again]
Bodybuilders may have a more socially acceptable reason for being overweight than someone out of shape that has a high BF%, but they are still out of the normal range and overweight.
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CarvedTones wrote: »[me again]
Bodybuilders may have a more socially acceptable reason for being overweight than someone out of shape that has a high BF%, but they are still out of the normal range and overweight.
Nah... horses and zebras. When I look at a population that frequently makes use of performance enhancing drugs and has a slightly elevated BMI together with a mortality rate that is much higher than the general mortality rate for that slightly elevated BMI... I don't key to that BMI as the problem!
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CarvedTones wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »Hungry_Shopgirl wrote: »mulecanter wrote: »I was skeptical of BMI until I got to the healthy range, turns out it was right.
Me too. I thought I was an outlier. Turns out I was still just too fat.
Agreed. Me too. I thought it didn't apply to me because I couldn't even imagine myself at such a low weight. Turns out, I can be in the "normal" range and I love it.
People with high muscle mass disparage it and say it's bogus, subjective, etc. Fine, you already count macros and can shed a pound on command, you know you're not overweight, move on. But for a non-bodybuilder, overweight or obese individual with no idea what weight to shoot for, it can be a useful tool.
Yes body builders can have high BMI and not be overweight. But if BMI is assessed in conjunction with clinical picture ie the actual body of the patient, then this is obvious
Just like it was obvious to both my doctor and myself that my bmi of 28 was not because I was an outlier with large amount of lean muscle - it was plain old because I was overweight.
Same of course for other outliers with unusual body shapes - amputees, people with dwarfism etc. obviously their BMI is altered by that.
But I'm sure people know if that applies to them.
If not, chances are that bmi range does apply fairly accurately.
Risking opening a can of worms, but I have heard more than one medical professional voice the opinion that bodybuilding and other forms of extreme fitness are not healthy and there is some evidence for that opinion being valid:
https://www.renalandurologynews.com/aua-2016-misc-urinary-problems/mortality-rate-higher-among-bodybuilders/article/495038/
[excerpt]
Bodybuilders have a mortality rate 34% higher than that of the age-matched U.S. male population, according to a study presented at the American Urological Association's 2016 annual meeting.
[me again]
Bodybuilders may have a more socially acceptable reason for being overweight than someone out of shape that has a high BF%, but they are still out of the normal range and overweight.
Did that filter out bodybuilders who use certain... help?6 -
Just checked my BMI.
I'm 5'7" and 148lbs with a lean frame. If I loose anymore I would look sick! I'm just about in the middle of the BMI scale & am working on maintaining my weight...
Result
BMI = 23.18 kg/m2 (Normal)
•Normal BMI range: 18.5kg/m2 - 25 kg/m2
•Normal BMI weight range for the height: 118.1lbs - 159.6 lbs
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xbowhunter wrote: »Just checked my BMI.
I'm 5'7" and 148lbs with a lean frame. If I loose anymore I would look sick! I'm just about in the middle of the BMI scale & am working on maintaining my weight...
Result
BMI = 23.18 kg/m2 (Normal)
•Normal BMI range: 18.5kg/m2 - 25 kg/m2
•Normal BMI weight range for the height: 118.1lbs - 159.6 lbs
Nice! I am 5'8" on a good day, so I am still claiming that (yeah, I am old enough to start slowly shrinking). I was 156.4 this morning; at 5'8" that's 23.8, at 5'7" it's 24.5 so I am good either way. I would look okay at 150 (not much different than I look now), but if I got down into the low 140s I think I would start look sickly also. I think normal goes too low. I would look emaciated at 123, even though that is just inside the normal range for 5'8".0 -
stevencloser wrote: »CarvedTones wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »Hungry_Shopgirl wrote: »mulecanter wrote: »I was skeptical of BMI until I got to the healthy range, turns out it was right.
Me too. I thought I was an outlier. Turns out I was still just too fat.
Agreed. Me too. I thought it didn't apply to me because I couldn't even imagine myself at such a low weight. Turns out, I can be in the "normal" range and I love it.
People with high muscle mass disparage it and say it's bogus, subjective, etc. Fine, you already count macros and can shed a pound on command, you know you're not overweight, move on. But for a non-bodybuilder, overweight or obese individual with no idea what weight to shoot for, it can be a useful tool.
Yes body builders can have high BMI and not be overweight. But if BMI is assessed in conjunction with clinical picture ie the actual body of the patient, then this is obvious
Just like it was obvious to both my doctor and myself that my bmi of 28 was not because I was an outlier with large amount of lean muscle - it was plain old because I was overweight.
Same of course for other outliers with unusual body shapes - amputees, people with dwarfism etc. obviously their BMI is altered by that.
But I'm sure people know if that applies to them.
If not, chances are that bmi range does apply fairly accurately.
Risking opening a can of worms, but I have heard more than one medical professional voice the opinion that bodybuilding and other forms of extreme fitness are not healthy and there is some evidence for that opinion being valid:
https://www.renalandurologynews.com/aua-2016-misc-urinary-problems/mortality-rate-higher-among-bodybuilders/article/495038/
[excerpt]
Bodybuilders have a mortality rate 34% higher than that of the age-matched U.S. male population, according to a study presented at the American Urological Association's 2016 annual meeting.
[me again]
Bodybuilders may have a more socially acceptable reason for being overweight than someone out of shape that has a high BF%, but they are still out of the normal range and overweight.
Did that filter out bodybuilders who use certain... help?
Probably not. Heck, the study may of even had an excess/majority of those enhanced individuals being studied. Unfortunately, when you say "bodybuilder" to most of the general populace what immediately pops into their heads are pro level built dudes that you see in the supermarket magazine section gracing the covers of "Muscle" magazine. You are thinking of Arnold and Kai Greene or even Dave Bautista or maybe the Rock. All of them had significant "help".
I belong to a gym that is almost 100% naturals and some fairly serious ones at that - but every now and then we get a dude on that "cell tech" wander in and it's jarring how much of a difference there is between them and us.
I'm "overweight" by BMI but not excessively. When I'm lean and at about 15% I'm about 10 pounds over. If I got very lean I'd probably be at the top of normal and this is typical of what I see around my gym. Now, I've also been at the left end of "obese" after a long bulk and I was... well, pretty fat at that weight. lol
... on a tangent - a lot of powerlifters seem prone to being heavily into the overweight/obese category with high levels of body fat and as undoubtedly strong as most of them are they all seem to think they fall into the "outlier" class on BMI and I'm not sure most of them have actually ever gotten lean enough to know if they do or not... probably not a popular opinion and I may be way off base but it's just an observation of the ones I see in my gym.9 -
It is a number I used to set my ambitious goal.
I also get credit towards insurance discount if I reach it.
It is also my high school graduation weight.
I plan to reach that weight to prove to myself that I can, then add some muscle and maybe weight.
It is a long-term plan made of many daily and hourly choices.3 -
My personal favourites as to why BMI doesn’t apply are:-
I have “big” bones (those of a T Rex?); and
I have high muscle mass (you’re not The Rock, calm down)13 -
IMO, highly muscular athletes have a better reason than most to be overweight, but they are still overweight. People with high BF% and a normal BMI are not overweight but they aren't healthy.4
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GrumpyHeadmistress wrote: »My personal favourites as to why BMI doesn’t apply are:-
I have “big” bones (those of a T Rex?); and
I have high muscle mass (you’re not The Rock, calm down)
I have several female friends who claim BMI does not apply to them because they have "so much" muscle under their fat. I always want to ask them what program they've been using to develop such physiques. I've been lifting heavy for over 5 years now and I am at the low end of BMI (while still having fat I can lose). You just don't accidentally develop that kind of body hauling around laundry baskets, chasing kids, or sitting at a desk all day.11 -
I think the normal BMI range includes a suitable weight for the overwhelming majority of people; that many (not all) of those claiming they should be above the top (because "so much muscle" or "big bones") are mostly self-deluding; and that those claiming no one can be healthy at the bottom end are equally out in left field. Men, particularly, who are criticizing the low end, should consider that a 5'8" healthy-looking woman is usually (not always) lighter than a similarly healthy-looking 5'8" man.
The arm in my avi is at about BMI 19.5 (at 5'5") - not quite the bottom of the normal range, but close. I'm no bodybuilder or even profoundly muscular . . . but it's hardly a pathetic, skeletal, unhealthy, Kate-Moss-heroin-chic stick arm, either. The rest of the body didn't look less healthy. (Past tense: It was a couple of years ago, and now I'm even more elderly (62), and currently a bit heavier, around BMI 22, which looks and feels . . . worse: Too much central flab, which I'm working on.)8 -
CarvedTones wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »Hungry_Shopgirl wrote: »mulecanter wrote: »I was skeptical of BMI until I got to the healthy range, turns out it was right.
Me too. I thought I was an outlier. Turns out I was still just too fat.
Agreed. Me too. I thought it didn't apply to me because I couldn't even imagine myself at such a low weight. Turns out, I can be in the "normal" range and I love it.
People with high muscle mass disparage it and say it's bogus, subjective, etc. Fine, you already count macros and can shed a pound on command, you know you're not overweight, move on. But for a non-bodybuilder, overweight or obese individual with no idea what weight to shoot for, it can be a useful tool.
Yes body builders can have high BMI and not be overweight. But if BMI is assessed in conjunction with clinical picture ie the actual body of the patient, then this is obvious
Just like it was obvious to both my doctor and myself that my bmi of 28 was not because I was an outlier with large amount of lean muscle - it was plain old because I was overweight.
Same of course for other outliers with unusual body shapes - amputees, people with dwarfism etc. obviously their BMI is altered by that.
But I'm sure people know if that applies to them.
If not, chances are that bmi range does apply fairly accurately.
Risking opening a can of worms, but I have heard more than one medical professional voice the opinion that bodybuilding and other forms of extreme fitness are not healthy and there is some evidence for that opinion being valid:
https://www.renalandurologynews.com/aua-2016-misc-urinary-problems/mortality-rate-higher-among-bodybuilders/article/495038/
[excerpt]
Bodybuilders have a mortality rate 34% higher than that of the age-matched U.S. male population, according to a study presented at the American Urological Association's 2016 annual meeting.
[me again]
Bodybuilders may have a more socially acceptable reason for being overweight than someone out of shape that has a high BF%, but they are still out of the normal range and overweight.
Steroid use is rampant in the BB community...
I personally don't think it's a BMI thing.
I'm 5'10" and my maintenance is typically about 180 which puts me 6 Lbs overweight on the BMI charts. I'm not hugely muscular or anything, but apparently have enough to put me a handful of Lbs over the top end. I'm not super lean either...healthy BF%, no love handles, etc...around 15% BF. I could be leaner of course and be in the top end of the range, but I figure I'm at a healthy BF% so that's ok with me.3 -
I'm at the upper end of "healthy" and I feel like that's probably about right - I'm pretty healthy, but for vanity reasons I'm trying to get lower down the scale1
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