KETO DIET: Reviews and Tips
Replies
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CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »yep CICO works. I have a metabolic disorder that is genetic and I lost weight counting my calories. I also weigh everything I eat to make sure its a serving and adjut accordingly. my calories in are less that what MFP gives me. MFP and other calculators say my BMR is 1400-1600. its not its 1272.what I should be maintaining on according to those calculators are also 200-300 calories off. so I have to adjust my intake. for me I have to burn more calories as well which is the only thing that works for me. I also have RA which is considered an autoimmune disease.
@ amandacowan1978 The keto flu is caused from your body/liver depleting glycogen and water and therefore it disrupts your electrolyte balance,that happens when you lower CARBS. Keto is a high fat low carb diet so why would you cut out fats from your diet if doing keto?
and just so you know I did keto for 2 months and for me I lost 5 lbs of water weight and that was all I lost. my weight loss was the same doing keto as it was eating the way I do now. also when you decrease your activity you need less calories as well so that could be why you werent losing back then. Thyroid issues can make losing weight harder too because it regulates metabolism.so if your levels arent on point weight loss can be hard. my daughter is having that issue at this very moment.
Ketogenic is defined as a very low carbohydrate dieting. It can be everywhere from high to low fat. The current diet craze is a modified ketogenic diet, which tends of focus on fat, but that certainly not a representation of the diet in general.
most that do keto here of course are the high fat low carb people. but still to get into ketosis you need very low carbs. I think I mentioned that above. if a person does low carb,low fat and high protein then how do they enter ketosis with very little fat as their fuel source? I know protein can be converted into glucose if needed but wouldnt that defeat the purpose of ketosis? your body would then run on glucose instead of fat to produce ketones right?
I know there are different types of keto but with most of them they all have higher fat limits. just one has the protein @25-30% of their calorie intake,the rest are all lower protein(I posted links in another thread awhile back). most of the diets had at least 60-90% fat intake. to me thats high fat.I do a low fat diet because I have to. I cant imagine cutting my carbs really low and upping my protein, egads I couldnt do it.
Ketosis isnt driven by fat, its driven by an energy source change from restricted carbs. Fat just makes for an easy and efficient fuel source while protein isnt a good fuel source.
I know its not driven by fat its due to low carb. I know that but fat is used for energy thats why to me low fat would kind of defeat the purpose because low fat would mean not enough fuel one would think? thats what Im trying to say. to me that would be driving a car on a 1/ 4 of a tank(low fat) and thinking that you can go the distance you can on say 3/4(high fat) and the car being able to do so. maybe Im just not understand as well as I thought. but I know that keto has to be low carb for sure.
There's always body fat, and protein can be used for some energy, it just is not a good primary source.
Consider starvation. If someone is only eating 400 kcal a day of only carbs, they would still end up in ketosis due to a lack of energy although they are eating 100g of carbs which is higher than a normal ketogenic diet. A lack of carbs or calories will cause ketosis.
Medium chain triglycerides are also converted to ketones very readily. People can raise their ketones, even if they eat more than low carb, by eating MCTs. That's one area where eating more of a fat can raise ketones. More fat is just not a requirement to making ketones. KWIM?
I can see the case with starvation though but then in that case you body will be using fat,muscle and lean mass for energy though. I know a lack of carbs cause ketosis thats not what Im saying thought. I just dont know how a low far ,low car ketosis diet would in a way be healthy due to the body needing some fat for hormone production or does the ketones help with that? I know that when you fast your body will also turn carbs and other things into fatty acids to run on,sort of like a ketosis. so that sorta makes sense in starvation.as for body fat though what happens when a person doesnt have enough body fat? then what? are there any legit studies on this that I can look up? Ive looked up some but its doesnt answer the questions I have.
It really depends on what you are trying to achieve. I am doing UD2 which is low carb and low fat with carb refeeds. Keeping in mind that a person really only needs roughly 11g of alpha linolenic acids. So a person needs 20-30g to achieve that. And I haven't seen studies of hormonal balance from consuming more. That is why with Lyle McDonald's programs he restricts carbs and fats. Overall, its designed to help mobilize fatty acids. And while a goal isn't ketosis, its possible that some will achieve it. I aim for net 50g on my low carb days while doing a glycogen depletion workout on the first two days.... To aid in fat mobilization.1 -
CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »yep CICO works. I have a metabolic disorder that is genetic and I lost weight counting my calories. I also weigh everything I eat to make sure its a serving and adjut accordingly. my calories in are less that what MFP gives me. MFP and other calculators say my BMR is 1400-1600. its not its 1272.what I should be maintaining on according to those calculators are also 200-300 calories off. so I have to adjust my intake. for me I have to burn more calories as well which is the only thing that works for me. I also have RA which is considered an autoimmune disease.
@ amandacowan1978 The keto flu is caused from your body/liver depleting glycogen and water and therefore it disrupts your electrolyte balance,that happens when you lower CARBS. Keto is a high fat low carb diet so why would you cut out fats from your diet if doing keto?
and just so you know I did keto for 2 months and for me I lost 5 lbs of water weight and that was all I lost. my weight loss was the same doing keto as it was eating the way I do now. also when you decrease your activity you need less calories as well so that could be why you werent losing back then. Thyroid issues can make losing weight harder too because it regulates metabolism.so if your levels arent on point weight loss can be hard. my daughter is having that issue at this very moment.
Ketogenic is defined as a very low carbohydrate dieting. It can be everywhere from high to low fat. The current diet craze is a modified ketogenic diet, which tends of focus on fat, but that certainly not a representation of the diet in general.
most that do keto here of course are the high fat low carb people. but still to get into ketosis you need very low carbs. I think I mentioned that above. if a person does low carb,low fat and high protein then how do they enter ketosis with very little fat as their fuel source? I know protein can be converted into glucose if needed but wouldnt that defeat the purpose of ketosis? your body would then run on glucose instead of fat to produce ketones right?
I know there are different types of keto but with most of them they all have higher fat limits. just one has the protein @25-30% of their calorie intake,the rest are all lower protein(I posted links in another thread awhile back). most of the diets had at least 60-90% fat intake. to me thats high fat.I do a low fat diet because I have to. I cant imagine cutting my carbs really low and upping my protein, egads I couldnt do it.
Ketosis isnt driven by fat, its driven by an energy source change from restricted carbs. Fat just makes for an easy and efficient fuel source while protein isnt a good fuel source.
I know its not driven by fat its due to low carb. I know that but fat is used for energy thats why to me low fat would kind of defeat the purpose because low fat would mean not enough fuel one would think? thats what Im trying to say. to me that would be driving a car on a 1/ 4 of a tank(low fat) and thinking that you can go the distance you can on say 3/4(high fat) and the car being able to do so. maybe Im just not understand as well as I thought. but I know that keto has to be low carb for sure.
There's always body fat, and protein can be used for some energy, it just is not a good primary source.
Consider starvation. If someone is only eating 400 kcal a day of only carbs, they would still end up in ketosis due to a lack of energy although they are eating 100g of carbs which is higher than a normal ketogenic diet. A lack of carbs or calories will cause ketosis.
Medium chain triglycerides are also converted to ketones very readily. People can raise their ketones, even if they eat more than low carb, by eating MCTs. That's one area where eating more of a fat can raise ketones. More fat is just not a requirement to making ketones. KWIM?
I can see the case with starvation though but then in that case you body will be using fat,muscle and lean mass for energy though. I know a lack of carbs cause ketosis thats not what Im saying thought. I just dont know how a low far ,low car ketosis diet would in a way be healthy due to the body needing some fat for hormone production or does the ketones help with that? I know that when you fast your body will also turn carbs and other things into fatty acids to run on,sort of like a ketosis. so that sorta makes sense in starvation.as for body fat though what happens when a person doesnt have enough body fat? then what? are there any legit studies on this that I can look up? Ive looked up some but its doesnt answer the questions I have.
I think that even when people eat high protein, say 200+ g a day, there are still getting a lot of calories from fat.
If someone was trying to lose weight with 1600 kcal a day, and they ate 50 g of carbs (200kcal) and 200 g protein (800 kcal or 50%), they are still getting about 600 kcal from fat, or close to 70 g. If we assume they use no protein for energy (which would not be correct), they are getting 800 kcal of energy from dietary fat and carbs. If the have a TDEE of 2500kcal, that means they would be using another 900 kcal of body (mainly saturated) fats.
If they don't have enough body fat for that sort of energy deficit they would start using lean tissue and eventually starve. That would be true of all diets though. I imagine that if one is eating a large amount of protein, and is very lean with little fat to spare, they may need to eat above their TDEE a bit in order to get enough energy (fat or carbs). If they don't, I'm guessing that CI<CO and they'd lose weight and health.
Just guessing.1 -
Lol, you wooers can woo away all you want. Still doesn't change the fact that a meta-analysis of 32 studies controlled for calories and protein intake showed no metabolic advantage to a ketogenic diet. Those woo must be the cheering kind!
Meh. I ignore those buttons: like, woo, whatever. I don't often use them or read them. They're pretty pointless.
I've been tempted to type "the sky is blue" to see if that would get woo'ed just because I wrote it.
LOL
ETA I went back through this thread and found I was woo'ed about 45 times over 8 or so posts.
awesome. 
Right on. It was woo'ed. LOL2 -
LiftHeavyThings27105 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »
Lol, you wooers can woo away all you want. Still doesn't change the fact that a meta-analysis of 32 studies controlled for calories and protein intake showed no metabolic advantage to a ketogenic diet. Those woo must be the cheering kind!
So you can finally admit keto and LCHF is as good your IIFYM diet!
Just what many of us have been saying for year! Gotta love science.
Woo away!
This is going to blow your mind but @mmapags follows a low carb diet.
It’s a good choice.
He must be happy he’s on a diet that’s as good as it gets
It is indeed a good choice - for some!
I follow the Ketogenic Lifestyle due to high A1C and insulin resistance.
I know a couple of people who have different autoimmune diseases and they GREATLY benefit from the Ketogenic Lifestyle.
But, it (Keto) is super restrictive. And the Keto Flu (which, admittedly one experiences due to ignorance) can absolutely destroy any desire to follow this way of eating. Which is really too bad. A little ownership and personal accountability make the Keto Flu a non-issue.
I can preach the benefits of the Ketogenic Lifestyle, but I would be doing anyone and everyone a dis-service were I to not include both benefits and challenges so that people can make a more educated decision. It is really challenging (not for me, but I am 'off') to restrict Carbs to under 50g a day.
Anyway, I love technical conversation. Working on it!
I curse whoever named the electrolyte imbalance "keto flu". It makes it sound like something that will be / must be experienced if one does keto, and not something that is entirely preventable with a bit of knowledge.
I've had people argue with me about it. They insist it is the keto flu - a carb detox - and not an electrolyte imbalance, so they don't increase sodium, then they suffer a while longer, and then they quit while attributing their symptoms to ketosis rather than low sodium.
I think most bad ketogenic experiences are due to not increasing sodium enough. Not all, but most.
Yes, ma'am! I agree completely. That is why I made the rather strong statements about "ownership" and "personal accountability". Seems like so many people just "do what I am told to do".....that thought process (clearly, there is absolutely zero thought process involved....so please give me a little latitude there) sickens me. Anyway, end rant!
And, again: YES, MA'AM!4 -
Good rant!
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tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »
Lol, you wooers can woo away all you want. Still doesn't change the fact that a meta-analysis of 32 studies controlled for calories and protein intake showed no metabolic advantage to a ketogenic diet. Those woo must be the cheering kind!
So you can finally admit keto and LCHF is as good your IIFYM diet!
Just what many of us have been saying for year! Gotta love science.
Woo away!
This is going to blow your mind but @mmapags follows a low carb diet.
It’s a good choice.
He must be happy he’s on a diet that’s as good as it gets
There can be many ways of eating that can be as good as it gets. LC/ Keto is only one.
I'm going to level with you. You always seem to be spoiling for some kind of argument where one doesn't exist and spinning what people say to advocate for a point of view. You say you agree with psulemon on the 10 to 20% number yet you always play the white knight for LC/Keto diets.
You've never once asked what my eating plan is and why. You just assume I'm anti LC/Keto and think you have to be the white knight for the case. I am pro science. That's it.
I don't eat low carb for any other reason than it is my natural preference. And I don't eat high fat at all. I am mostly a high protein and high fiber vegetable and fruit eater. That is just my natural preference and how I am most satisfied to eat. I learned, based on the available research, a long time ago that there are only a few variable that matter. 1) activity and fitness, 2) calorie control 3) eating in a way that supports your goals and is sustainable. After calories, protein is the #1 priority and after that the rest just seems to fall into place.
So, high protein, high fiber veggies and fruits and getting a minimal amount of fats to keep the body functioning properly. Neither pro or anti fat. Just not a prefered food.
I overate eating that way and have lost 30lbs to get myself back to a reasonable healthy weight range. So eating low carb did nothing for me without monitoring calories. So eating LC without monitoring calories was a poor proposition for me.
I could lose about 10 or 15 more to be ideal. For 67 years old, I'm very fit. I have solid weight lifting numbers for my age group and get a reasonable amount of cardio. My labs are exceptional every year for the last several years for cholesterol, triglycerides and A1c.
Exercise and calorie management are the things most responsible for my good health. Simple as that.
So, a suggestion. If you agree with me, as you said, and you agree with psulemon, as you said, maybe give it a rest with the white knighting and ax grinding regarding keto. Just sayin'.....22 -
tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »
Lol, you wooers can woo away all you want. Still doesn't change the fact that a meta-analysis of 32 studies controlled for calories and protein intake showed no metabolic advantage to a ketogenic diet. Those woo must be the cheering kind!
So you can finally admit keto and LCHF is as good your IIFYM diet!
Just what many of us have been saying for year! Gotta love science.
Woo away!
This is going to blow your mind but @mmapags follows a low carb diet.
It’s a good choice.
He must be happy he’s on a diet that’s as good as it gets
There can be many ways of eating that can be as good as it gets. LC/ Keto is only one.
I'm going to level with you. You always seem to be spoiling for some kind of argument where one doesn't exist and spinning what people say to advocate for a point of view. You say you agree with psulemon on the 10 to 20% number yet you always play the white knight for LC/Keto diets.
You've never once asked what my eating plan is and why. You just assume I'm anti LC/Keto and think you have to be the white knight for the case. I am pro science. That's it.
I don't eat low carb for any other reason than it is my natural preference. And I don't eat high fat at all. I am mostly a high protein and high fiber vegetable and fruit eater. That is just my natural preference and how I am most satisfied to eat. I learned, based on the available research, a long time ago that there are only a few variable that matter. 1) activity and fitness, 2) calorie control 3) eating in a way that supports your goals and is sustainable. After calories, protein is the #1 priority and after that the rest just seems to fall into place.
So, high protein, high fiber veggies and fruits and getting a minimal amount of fats to keep the body functioning properly. Neither pro or anti fat. Just not a prefered food.
I overate eating that way and have lost 30lbs to get myself back to a reasonable healthy weight range. So eating low carb did nothing for me without monitoring calories. So eating LC without monitoring calories was a poor proposition for me.
I could lose about 10 or 15 more to be ideal. For 67 years old, I'm very fit. I have solid weight lifting numbers for my age group and get a reasonable amount of cardio. My labs are exceptional every year for the last several years for cholesterol, triglycerides and A1c.
Exercise and calorie management are the things most responsible for my good health. Simple as that.
So, a suggestion. If you agree with me, as you said, and you agree with psulemon, as you said, maybe give it a rest with the white knighting and ax grinding regarding keto. Just sayin'.....
I'm not spoiling for anything, but it does aggravate me when people post on these forums looking for help and assistance, as they try and find a new way of eating to help them hit a calorie deficit and are almost immediately side tracked on their efforts.
I would suggest that for most people looking at LCHF or KETO they haven't chosen it as a first option and have tried the IIFYM moderation route, or alternative routes and they maybe didn't work for them, it doesn't for a lot of people.
But rather than offer assistance on the topic the OP has asked the question of, on many occasions the IIFYM / Calorie Counted is offered as an alternative, before actually addressing the OP's original question....why? If you are pro science then why try and steer someone away from something that might work for them?
As I mentioned, I have never once claimed LCHF is better than any other diet, I have never once claimed that LCHF works beyond CICO. Also I have never once had the arrogance or ignorance to jump onto the calorie counting thread and preach LCHF, when the OP is clearly asking information on calorie counting / IIFYM. just sayin'....
So, a suggestion. As we are all in agreement that LCHF/Keto is as optimal as IIFYM/Calorie Counting, why don't we just address the OP's questions. If they want to give LCHF a go, good for them, lets help them get the tools and information they need to make it a success.16 -
tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »
Lol, you wooers can woo away all you want. Still doesn't change the fact that a meta-analysis of 32 studies controlled for calories and protein intake showed no metabolic advantage to a ketogenic diet. Those woo must be the cheering kind!
So you can finally admit keto and LCHF is as good your IIFYM diet!
Just what many of us have been saying for year! Gotta love science.
Woo away!
This is going to blow your mind but @mmapags follows a low carb diet.
It’s a good choice.
He must be happy he’s on a diet that’s as good as it gets
There can be many ways of eating that can be as good as it gets. LC/ Keto is only one.
I'm going to level with you. You always seem to be spoiling for some kind of argument where one doesn't exist and spinning what people say to advocate for a point of view. You say you agree with psulemon on the 10 to 20% number yet you always play the white knight for LC/Keto diets.
You've never once asked what my eating plan is and why. You just assume I'm anti LC/Keto and think you have to be the white knight for the case. I am pro science. That's it.
I don't eat low carb for any other reason than it is my natural preference. And I don't eat high fat at all. I am mostly a high protein and high fiber vegetable and fruit eater. That is just my natural preference and how I am most satisfied to eat. I learned, based on the available research, a long time ago that there are only a few variable that matter. 1) activity and fitness, 2) calorie control 3) eating in a way that supports your goals and is sustainable. After calories, protein is the #1 priority and after that the rest just seems to fall into place.
So, high protein, high fiber veggies and fruits and getting a minimal amount of fats to keep the body functioning properly. Neither pro or anti fat. Just not a prefered food.
I overate eating that way and have lost 30lbs to get myself back to a reasonable healthy weight range. So eating low carb did nothing for me without monitoring calories. So eating LC without monitoring calories was a poor proposition for me.
I could lose about 10 or 15 more to be ideal. For 67 years old, I'm very fit. I have solid weight lifting numbers for my age group and get a reasonable amount of cardio. My labs are exceptional every year for the last several years for cholesterol, triglycerides and A1c.
Exercise and calorie management are the things most responsible for my good health. Simple as that.
So, a suggestion. If you agree with me, as you said, and you agree with psulemon, as you said, maybe give it a rest with the white knighting and ax grinding regarding keto. Just sayin'.....
I'm not spoiling for anything, but it does aggravate me when people post on these forums looking for help and assistance, as they try and find a new way of eating to help them hit a calorie deficit and are almost immediately side tracked on their efforts.
I would suggest that for most people looking at LCHF or KETO they haven't chosen it as a first option and have tried the IIFYM moderation route, or alternative routes and they maybe didn't work for them, it doesn't for a lot of people.
But rather than offer assistance on the topic the OP has asked the question of, on many occasions the IIFYM / Calorie Counted is offered as an alternative, before actually addressing the OP's original question....why? If you are pro science then why try and steer someone away from something that might work for them?
As I mentioned, I have never once claimed LCHF is better than any other diet, I have never once claimed that LCHF works beyond CICO. Also I have never once had the arrogance or ignorance to jump onto the calorie counting thread and preach LCHF, when the OP is clearly asking information on calorie counting / IIFYM. just sayin'....
So, a suggestion. As we are all in agreement that LCHF/Keto is as optimal as IIFYM/Calorie Counting, why don't we just address the OP's questions. If they want to give LCHF a go, good for them, lets help them get the tools and information they need to make it a success.
Your hypothesis that people who ask about keto must have tried other things first is flawed.
Advertising for how great keto is is everywhere. In fact, this very thread started with OP telling us she heard how easy it supposedly is and that's the reason she wants to do it. And she wanted reviews, it would be a pretty shady modus operandi to only allow positive reviews.17 -
stevencloser wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »
Lol, you wooers can woo away all you want. Still doesn't change the fact that a meta-analysis of 32 studies controlled for calories and protein intake showed no metabolic advantage to a ketogenic diet. Those woo must be the cheering kind!
So you can finally admit keto and LCHF is as good your IIFYM diet!
Just what many of us have been saying for year! Gotta love science.
Woo away!
This is going to blow your mind but @mmapags follows a low carb diet.
It’s a good choice.
He must be happy he’s on a diet that’s as good as it gets
There can be many ways of eating that can be as good as it gets. LC/ Keto is only one.
I'm going to level with you. You always seem to be spoiling for some kind of argument where one doesn't exist and spinning what people say to advocate for a point of view. You say you agree with psulemon on the 10 to 20% number yet you always play the white knight for LC/Keto diets.
You've never once asked what my eating plan is and why. You just assume I'm anti LC/Keto and think you have to be the white knight for the case. I am pro science. That's it.
I don't eat low carb for any other reason than it is my natural preference. And I don't eat high fat at all. I am mostly a high protein and high fiber vegetable and fruit eater. That is just my natural preference and how I am most satisfied to eat. I learned, based on the available research, a long time ago that there are only a few variable that matter. 1) activity and fitness, 2) calorie control 3) eating in a way that supports your goals and is sustainable. After calories, protein is the #1 priority and after that the rest just seems to fall into place.
So, high protein, high fiber veggies and fruits and getting a minimal amount of fats to keep the body functioning properly. Neither pro or anti fat. Just not a prefered food.
I overate eating that way and have lost 30lbs to get myself back to a reasonable healthy weight range. So eating low carb did nothing for me without monitoring calories. So eating LC without monitoring calories was a poor proposition for me.
I could lose about 10 or 15 more to be ideal. For 67 years old, I'm very fit. I have solid weight lifting numbers for my age group and get a reasonable amount of cardio. My labs are exceptional every year for the last several years for cholesterol, triglycerides and A1c.
Exercise and calorie management are the things most responsible for my good health. Simple as that.
So, a suggestion. If you agree with me, as you said, and you agree with psulemon, as you said, maybe give it a rest with the white knighting and ax grinding regarding keto. Just sayin'.....
I'm not spoiling for anything, but it does aggravate me when people post on these forums looking for help and assistance, as they try and find a new way of eating to help them hit a calorie deficit and are almost immediately side tracked on their efforts.
I would suggest that for most people looking at LCHF or KETO they haven't chosen it as a first option and have tried the IIFYM moderation route, or alternative routes and they maybe didn't work for them, it doesn't for a lot of people.
But rather than offer assistance on the topic the OP has asked the question of, on many occasions the IIFYM / Calorie Counted is offered as an alternative, before actually addressing the OP's original question....why? If you are pro science then why try and steer someone away from something that might work for them?
As I mentioned, I have never once claimed LCHF is better than any other diet, I have never once claimed that LCHF works beyond CICO. Also I have never once had the arrogance or ignorance to jump onto the calorie counting thread and preach LCHF, when the OP is clearly asking information on calorie counting / IIFYM. just sayin'....
So, a suggestion. As we are all in agreement that LCHF/Keto is as optimal as IIFYM/Calorie Counting, why don't we just address the OP's questions. If they want to give LCHF a go, good for them, lets help them get the tools and information they need to make it a success.
Your hypothesis that people who ask about keto must have tried other things first is flawed.
Advertising for how great keto is is everywhere. In fact, this very thread started with OP telling us she heard how easy it supposedly is and that's the reason she wants to do it. And she wanted reviews, it would be a pretty shady modus operandi to only allow positive reviews.
Your hypothesis that I am suggesting ALL people that choose LCHF or keto have tried other things is flawed.
Some people do find LCHF easy, I am certainly one of those people. Unless the OP gives it a try how do they know they wont find it as easy?
You are correct the OP was asking for advice on keto, I didn't however see her asking if people thought it was good or bad. I did notice the first two responses were advising against it and preaching IIFYM.
11 -
tennisdude2004 wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »
Lol, you wooers can woo away all you want. Still doesn't change the fact that a meta-analysis of 32 studies controlled for calories and protein intake showed no metabolic advantage to a ketogenic diet. Those woo must be the cheering kind!
So you can finally admit keto and LCHF is as good your IIFYM diet!
Just what many of us have been saying for year! Gotta love science.
Woo away!
This is going to blow your mind but @mmapags follows a low carb diet.
It’s a good choice.
He must be happy he’s on a diet that’s as good as it gets
There can be many ways of eating that can be as good as it gets. LC/ Keto is only one.
I'm going to level with you. You always seem to be spoiling for some kind of argument where one doesn't exist and spinning what people say to advocate for a point of view. You say you agree with psulemon on the 10 to 20% number yet you always play the white knight for LC/Keto diets.
You've never once asked what my eating plan is and why. You just assume I'm anti LC/Keto and think you have to be the white knight for the case. I am pro science. That's it.
I don't eat low carb for any other reason than it is my natural preference. And I don't eat high fat at all. I am mostly a high protein and high fiber vegetable and fruit eater. That is just my natural preference and how I am most satisfied to eat. I learned, based on the available research, a long time ago that there are only a few variable that matter. 1) activity and fitness, 2) calorie control 3) eating in a way that supports your goals and is sustainable. After calories, protein is the #1 priority and after that the rest just seems to fall into place.
So, high protein, high fiber veggies and fruits and getting a minimal amount of fats to keep the body functioning properly. Neither pro or anti fat. Just not a prefered food.
I overate eating that way and have lost 30lbs to get myself back to a reasonable healthy weight range. So eating low carb did nothing for me without monitoring calories. So eating LC without monitoring calories was a poor proposition for me.
I could lose about 10 or 15 more to be ideal. For 67 years old, I'm very fit. I have solid weight lifting numbers for my age group and get a reasonable amount of cardio. My labs are exceptional every year for the last several years for cholesterol, triglycerides and A1c.
Exercise and calorie management are the things most responsible for my good health. Simple as that.
So, a suggestion. If you agree with me, as you said, and you agree with psulemon, as you said, maybe give it a rest with the white knighting and ax grinding regarding keto. Just sayin'.....
I'm not spoiling for anything, but it does aggravate me when people post on these forums looking for help and assistance, as they try and find a new way of eating to help them hit a calorie deficit and are almost immediately side tracked on their efforts.
I would suggest that for most people looking at LCHF or KETO they haven't chosen it as a first option and have tried the IIFYM moderation route, or alternative routes and they maybe didn't work for them, it doesn't for a lot of people.
But rather than offer assistance on the topic the OP has asked the question of, on many occasions the IIFYM / Calorie Counted is offered as an alternative, before actually addressing the OP's original question....why? If you are pro science then why try and steer someone away from something that might work for them?
As I mentioned, I have never once claimed LCHF is better than any other diet, I have never once claimed that LCHF works beyond CICO. Also I have never once had the arrogance or ignorance to jump onto the calorie counting thread and preach LCHF, when the OP is clearly asking information on calorie counting / IIFYM. just sayin'....
So, a suggestion. As we are all in agreement that LCHF/Keto is as optimal as IIFYM/Calorie Counting, why don't we just address the OP's questions. If they want to give LCHF a go, good for them, lets help them get the tools and information they need to make it a success.
Your hypothesis that people who ask about keto must have tried other things first is flawed.
Advertising for how great keto is is everywhere. In fact, this very thread started with OP telling us she heard how easy it supposedly is and that's the reason she wants to do it. And she wanted reviews, it would be a pretty shady modus operandi to only allow positive reviews.
Your hypothesis that I am suggesting ALL people that choose LCHF or keto have tried other things is flawed.
Some people do find LCHF easy, I am certainly one of those people. Unless the OP gives it a try how do they know they wont find it as easy?
You are correct the OP was asking for advice on keto, I didn't however see her asking if people thought it was good or bad. I did notice the first two responses were advising against it and preaching IIFYM.
I see no mention of IIFYM in the first three posts on this thread. Are you conflating flexible dieting or all things in moderation or no particular focus on macros at all, with IIFYM?9 -
There are people who unfairly demonize keto. There are people who think it is some kind of miracle that it isn't. If neither of you are that then why keep arguing? Goodness! Can't we all just get along? You would think it was a discussion about politics instead of food. Meanwhile, you mostly missed that OP doesn't really need any version of calorie cutting plan.
OP, I realize that by now you've made a decision, however I must say that I do not think that beginning a whole new eating plan to lose some water weight when you are already either a healthy weight or slightly underweight (depending on your frame size) is advisable. If you truly have excess water weight then do a wrap or take some cranberry supplement, problem solved!6 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »michelle172415 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Thinking about trying the keto diet. I am trying to cut just a few pounds for a summer trip that I am taking with a couple of my friends. I have heard that keto is super easy to do after the initial two days. Please advise on how long it took for you to lose X number of pounds and to see the results or how long it took to get over the "keto flu" or tips on how to manage or good food to eat. Just any tips. Wanting to start soon!
Thanks for your help in advance.
xx
"Easy" would be highly subjective and individual. Personally, I wouldn't find limiting carbohydrates to next to nothing very easy, nor would I find eating copious amounts of dietary fat easy or limiting protein easy.
I suppose it's easy for some who gravitate towards eating a ton of fat and have little interest in fruits and vegetables and other quality carbohydrates in more than the tiniest amounts.
Also keep in mind that initial losses on the scale are largely water and glycogen depletion...if you're planning on drinking alcohol on your trip, be prepared to put back on water weight and bloat.
This is a very uneducated opinion about Keto. I eat plenty of vegetables and :::gasp::: even some fruit. They aren't tiny amounts, often my lunch is a huge plate of salad with protein and then a homemade Balsamic Vinaigrette. Dinner is often grilled meat and a large side of veggies cooked in healthy fat. Honestly, the only thing I eat copious amounts of are leafy green veggies because I love them. And sometimes, I want a potato, so I eat a potato. Yes, initial weight lost is often water weight, but that is common with most any diet, and not exclusive to Keto.
And for the record, I never had the Keto Flu. I did my research before starting and simply upped my electrolyte consumption and when I did have that initial water weight loss, I felt perfectly fine.
Yeah, nah...
One medium apple is 25g of carbohydrate...boom...you've just gone over the 20 measly grams of carbohydrates that most keto dieters are doing. Saying that you don't have to restrict fruits and veg is a *kitten* premise.
Most of my carbohydrates come from fruits and veg and some oats and legumes...I'm well over keto limits with my healthy carbohydrates.
Well, I average closer to 50g of carbohydrates per day and I don't like apples, so......2 -
100_PROOF_ wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »michelle172415 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Thinking about trying the keto diet. I am trying to cut just a few pounds for a summer trip that I am taking with a couple of my friends. I have heard that keto is super easy to do after the initial two days. Please advise on how long it took for you to lose X number of pounds and to see the results or how long it took to get over the "keto flu" or tips on how to manage or good food to eat. Just any tips. Wanting to start soon!
Thanks for your help in advance.
xx
"Easy" would be highly subjective and individual. Personally, I wouldn't find limiting carbohydrates to next to nothing very easy, nor would I find eating copious amounts of dietary fat easy or limiting protein easy.
I suppose it's easy for some who gravitate towards eating a ton of fat and have little interest in fruits and vegetables and other quality carbohydrates in more than the tiniest amounts.
Also keep in mind that initial losses on the scale are largely water and glycogen depletion...if you're planning on drinking alcohol on your trip, be prepared to put back on water weight and bloat.
This is a very uneducated opinion about Keto. I eat plenty of vegetables and :::gasp::: even some fruit. They aren't tiny amounts, often my lunch is a huge plate of salad with protein and then a homemade Balsamic Vinaigrette. Dinner is often grilled meat and a large side of veggies cooked in healthy fat. Honestly, the only thing I eat copious amounts of are leafy green veggies because I love them. And sometimes, I want a potato, so I eat a potato. Yes, initial weight lost is often water weight, but that is common with most any diet, and not exclusive to Keto.
And for the record, I never had the Keto Flu. I did my research before starting and simply upped my electrolyte consumption and when I did have that initial water weight loss, I felt perfectly fine.
Yeah, nah...
One medium apple is 25g of carbohydrate...boom...you've just gone over the 20 measly grams of carbohydrates that most keto dieters are doing. Saying that you don't have to restrict fruits and veg is a *kitten* premise.
Most of my carbohydrates come from fruits and veg and some oats and legumes...I'm well over keto limits with my healthy carbohydrates.
Oh no, there's no such thing as healthy carbs. Fruits and vegetables- devil carbs . Same as eating cake all day and all.
*Insert eyeroll*
But you can drink unlimited whipping cream mixed with oil. You can even eat at a calorie surplus every day because it's magic.
You can't gain weight on keto. Only magical muscle.
Hehehe
Honestly, you sound really uneducated about Keto. You are making such a gross generalization and couldn't be further off target. Yes, some people may "eat keto" the way that you are describing, but that way is not the intent of keto. I follow a Keto diet, feel free to take a peek at my diary, I am neither chugging whipping cream mixed with oil nor eating at a calorie surplus every day. Anyone doing Keto with a half an ounce of intelligence knows that you need to eat healthy, whole foods and be consuming less calories than you burn. We're not all morons.8 -
michelle172415 wrote: »100_PROOF_ wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »michelle172415 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Thinking about trying the keto diet. I am trying to cut just a few pounds for a summer trip that I am taking with a couple of my friends. I have heard that keto is super easy to do after the initial two days. Please advise on how long it took for you to lose X number of pounds and to see the results or how long it took to get over the "keto flu" or tips on how to manage or good food to eat. Just any tips. Wanting to start soon!
Thanks for your help in advance.
xx
"Easy" would be highly subjective and individual. Personally, I wouldn't find limiting carbohydrates to next to nothing very easy, nor would I find eating copious amounts of dietary fat easy or limiting protein easy.
I suppose it's easy for some who gravitate towards eating a ton of fat and have little interest in fruits and vegetables and other quality carbohydrates in more than the tiniest amounts.
Also keep in mind that initial losses on the scale are largely water and glycogen depletion...if you're planning on drinking alcohol on your trip, be prepared to put back on water weight and bloat.
This is a very uneducated opinion about Keto. I eat plenty of vegetables and :::gasp::: even some fruit. They aren't tiny amounts, often my lunch is a huge plate of salad with protein and then a homemade Balsamic Vinaigrette. Dinner is often grilled meat and a large side of veggies cooked in healthy fat. Honestly, the only thing I eat copious amounts of are leafy green veggies because I love them. And sometimes, I want a potato, so I eat a potato. Yes, initial weight lost is often water weight, but that is common with most any diet, and not exclusive to Keto.
And for the record, I never had the Keto Flu. I did my research before starting and simply upped my electrolyte consumption and when I did have that initial water weight loss, I felt perfectly fine.
Yeah, nah...
One medium apple is 25g of carbohydrate...boom...you've just gone over the 20 measly grams of carbohydrates that most keto dieters are doing. Saying that you don't have to restrict fruits and veg is a *kitten* premise.
Most of my carbohydrates come from fruits and veg and some oats and legumes...I'm well over keto limits with my healthy carbohydrates.
Oh no, there's no such thing as healthy carbs. Fruits and vegetables- devil carbs . Same as eating cake all day and all.
*Insert eyeroll*
But you can drink unlimited whipping cream mixed with oil. You can even eat at a calorie surplus every day because it's magic.
You can't gain weight on keto. Only magical muscle.
Hehehe
Honestly, you sound really uneducated about Keto. You are making such a gross generalization and couldn't be further off target. Yes, some people may "eat keto" the way that you are describing, but that way is not the intent of keto. I follow a Keto diet, feel free to take a peek at my diary, I am neither chugging whipping cream mixed with oil nor eating at a calorie surplus every day. Anyone doing Keto with a half an ounce of intelligence knows that you need to eat healthy, whole foods and be consuming less calories than you burn. We're not all morons.
There will always be people misrepresenting each dieting "ideology".
IIFYM is great, it works, it's proven to lose weight, but just like keto, people think it's the whole story. The whole point of losing weight should be - primarily - for health reasons. So IIFYM can be abused, for example: 1800kcals of cake - that isn't going to be healthy. But taking it such extremes is ignoring all the good it can achieve.
IMO, my favourite thing about keto (which I've only done for about 4-5 months, but had my best results for fat loss ever) was how little I craved any carbs or sugars. Currently just trying to eat healthily within IIFYM and struggling to lose weight because I get cravings here and there and end up making a few awful choices. That just didn't happen for me on keto. I gave it up though because I don't think it's sustainable long term for me personally. I love a pizza, or an actual burger with a bun etc. I like the odd sandwich. And I like a LOT of peppers, green beans, asparagus etc. I like a bit of milk in my coffee. A lot of little otherwise harmless things were sacrificed for keto. I like to eat out once a week, sometimes more. I hate going to a restaurant and paying full price for a meal I could only half enjoy.
I'll be back on keto, but I'll maybe use it as a functional weight loss diet, rather than a way of life. It worked for me before, so there's no reason why I can't do it again, if needed.
My priorities fall like so:
Try and eat within your calorie goals
Get adequate protein for muscle recovery/building
Get adequate fruits and veg for vitamins/fibre
Fill the rest with what I like the most
3 -
michelle172415 wrote: »100_PROOF_ wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »michelle172415 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Thinking about trying the keto diet. I am trying to cut just a few pounds for a summer trip that I am taking with a couple of my friends. I have heard that keto is super easy to do after the initial two days. Please advise on how long it took for you to lose X number of pounds and to see the results or how long it took to get over the "keto flu" or tips on how to manage or good food to eat. Just any tips. Wanting to start soon!
Thanks for your help in advance.
xx
"Easy" would be highly subjective and individual. Personally, I wouldn't find limiting carbohydrates to next to nothing very easy, nor would I find eating copious amounts of dietary fat easy or limiting protein easy.
I suppose it's easy for some who gravitate towards eating a ton of fat and have little interest in fruits and vegetables and other quality carbohydrates in more than the tiniest amounts.
Also keep in mind that initial losses on the scale are largely water and glycogen depletion...if you're planning on drinking alcohol on your trip, be prepared to put back on water weight and bloat.
This is a very uneducated opinion about Keto. I eat plenty of vegetables and :::gasp::: even some fruit. They aren't tiny amounts, often my lunch is a huge plate of salad with protein and then a homemade Balsamic Vinaigrette. Dinner is often grilled meat and a large side of veggies cooked in healthy fat. Honestly, the only thing I eat copious amounts of are leafy green veggies because I love them. And sometimes, I want a potato, so I eat a potato. Yes, initial weight lost is often water weight, but that is common with most any diet, and not exclusive to Keto.
And for the record, I never had the Keto Flu. I did my research before starting and simply upped my electrolyte consumption and when I did have that initial water weight loss, I felt perfectly fine.
Yeah, nah...
One medium apple is 25g of carbohydrate...boom...you've just gone over the 20 measly grams of carbohydrates that most keto dieters are doing. Saying that you don't have to restrict fruits and veg is a *kitten* premise.
Most of my carbohydrates come from fruits and veg and some oats and legumes...I'm well over keto limits with my healthy carbohydrates.
Oh no, there's no such thing as healthy carbs. Fruits and vegetables- devil carbs . Same as eating cake all day and all.
*Insert eyeroll*
But you can drink unlimited whipping cream mixed with oil. You can even eat at a calorie surplus every day because it's magic.
You can't gain weight on keto. Only magical muscle.
Hehehe
Honestly, you sound really uneducated about Keto. You are making such a gross generalization and couldn't be further off target. Yes, some people may "eat keto" the way that you are describing, but that way is not the intent of keto. I follow a Keto diet, feel free to take a peek at my diary, I am neither chugging whipping cream mixed with oil nor eating at a calorie surplus every day. Anyone doing Keto with a half an ounce of intelligence knows that you need to eat healthy, whole foods and be consuming less calories than you burn. We're not all morons.
Unfortunately, based on the myriad of posts/threads from newbies here, it appears lots of people DO come to keto completely uneducated about it, but full up on all the current hype and unsubstantiated 'miracles' surrounding it. Case-in-point? Bulletproof coffee.
For me, blowing through a third of my daily calorie allotment in just one cup of this derp-and-woo-filled liquid fat bomb is a tragic waste of perfectly good edible calories.
Not for a second saying a keto diet doesn't work or that it's not a good fit for anyone. Also not saying that everyone doing keto drinks bulletproof coffee, or doesn't have the first clue about what a keto diet can (or more importantly, can't) do.
I am saying that it appears that the majority of people trying it for the first time are doing so simply because they read they can lose weight fast (not understanding that it's water weight at first), that they'll never be hungry, don't have to worry about counting those pesky calories and that "being in ketosis" is some misguided state of nirvana that is the ultimate reward for their diligence and adherence. And that offensive foul breath and body odour? It's merely your body ridding itself of 'toxins' stored in your fat cells and colon for decades. Add on that a lot of these people then seem to come onto forums such as this to educate the unwashed masses, and you have some of the reasons why keto tends to get a lot of push-back.
Proselytizing the Joys of Keto on a newly-converted enthusiast's own Facebook page is one thing. Doing so here, however, will get the blow-back it deserves, when it is deserved. 12 -
michelle172415 wrote: »100_PROOF_ wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »michelle172415 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Thinking about trying the keto diet. I am trying to cut just a few pounds for a summer trip that I am taking with a couple of my friends. I have heard that keto is super easy to do after the initial two days. Please advise on how long it took for you to lose X number of pounds and to see the results or how long it took to get over the "keto flu" or tips on how to manage or good food to eat. Just any tips. Wanting to start soon!
Thanks for your help in advance.
xx
"Easy" would be highly subjective and individual. Personally, I wouldn't find limiting carbohydrates to next to nothing very easy, nor would I find eating copious amounts of dietary fat easy or limiting protein easy.
I suppose it's easy for some who gravitate towards eating a ton of fat and have little interest in fruits and vegetables and other quality carbohydrates in more than the tiniest amounts.
Also keep in mind that initial losses on the scale are largely water and glycogen depletion...if you're planning on drinking alcohol on your trip, be prepared to put back on water weight and bloat.
This is a very uneducated opinion about Keto. I eat plenty of vegetables and :::gasp::: even some fruit. They aren't tiny amounts, often my lunch is a huge plate of salad with protein and then a homemade Balsamic Vinaigrette. Dinner is often grilled meat and a large side of veggies cooked in healthy fat. Honestly, the only thing I eat copious amounts of are leafy green veggies because I love them. And sometimes, I want a potato, so I eat a potato. Yes, initial weight lost is often water weight, but that is common with most any diet, and not exclusive to Keto.
And for the record, I never had the Keto Flu. I did my research before starting and simply upped my electrolyte consumption and when I did have that initial water weight loss, I felt perfectly fine.
Yeah, nah...
One medium apple is 25g of carbohydrate...boom...you've just gone over the 20 measly grams of carbohydrates that most keto dieters are doing. Saying that you don't have to restrict fruits and veg is a *kitten* premise.
Most of my carbohydrates come from fruits and veg and some oats and legumes...I'm well over keto limits with my healthy carbohydrates.
Oh no, there's no such thing as healthy carbs. Fruits and vegetables- devil carbs . Same as eating cake all day and all.
*Insert eyeroll*
But you can drink unlimited whipping cream mixed with oil. You can even eat at a calorie surplus every day because it's magic.
You can't gain weight on keto. Only magical muscle.
Hehehe
Honestly, you sound really uneducated about Keto. You are making such a gross generalization and couldn't be further off target. Yes, some people may "eat keto" the way that you are describing, but that way is not the intent of keto. I follow a Keto diet, feel free to take a peek at my diary, I am neither chugging whipping cream mixed with oil nor eating at a calorie surplus every day. Anyone doing Keto with a half an ounce of intelligence knows that you need to eat healthy, whole foods and be consuming less calories than you burn. We're not all morons.
You have to remember that people who know what they are doing generally do not post a lot of questions asking about a certain diet or needing help, nor are they necessarily going to post a lot for accountability. So it's not surprising that people have an incorrect perception about low carb or keto diets.
I'm not sure why anyone would extrapolate people seeking information or posting some incorrect (yet popular) diet/fitness tidbit as being indicative of a group as a whole, but that is the unfortunate thing about online forums, especially if people spend a lot of time on them. It's easy to forget that not everyone shares everything on social media.5 -
That is your take on it. Not how I see it. This is a forum. A forum is going to be place of divergent opinions. Why do you think you are appointed the white knight for all those folks who may hear a differing opinion?I'm not spoiling for anything, but it does aggravate me when people post on these forums looking for help and assistance, as they try and find a new way of eating to help them hit a calorie deficit and are almost immediately side tracked on their efforts.
Maybe. Maybe not. Noone has any real way of knowng and as stevencloser saidI would suggest that for most people looking at LCHF or KETO they haven't chosen it as a first option and have tried the IIFYM moderation route, or alternative routes and they maybe didn't work for them, it doesn't for a lot of people.
This OP seemed pretty uninformed to me. That seems to be your bias showing. If you believe that LC/Keto is only effective for 10% to 20% of dieters, as you stated, then that means it would not be an effective choice for 80% to 90% of dieters. As steven points out, it would only be appropriate to point raise that question.Advertising for how great keto is is everywhere. In fact, this very thread started with OP telling us she heard how easy it supposedly is and that's the reason she wants to do it. And she wanted reviews, it would be a pretty shady modus operandi to only allow positive reviews.
As I have stated enough times to be tired of saying it, keto is a valid choice for the IR, those with hunger and craving issues and those who just plain prefer to eat that way. You had to have read me post that as I have posted it in multiple thread where you have participated. Yet you still respond to my posts as though I am attacking keto. I am not. What causes this cognitive dissonance on your part? If I do attack something, it's because it woo in my opinion and not fact. That would apply to any eating style.
I didn't steer anyone anywhere. I posted a meta-analysis that shows objective data on keto diets and dispels many of the false claims and myths that are published all the time here and in the media in general. If I were considering a diet plan, that is what I would want! Why do you feel that anyone posting objective info is somehow called the keto baby ugly.If you are pro science then why try and steer someone away from something that might work for them?
Because this is a forum. Not a support group. It's not everyone here's resposibilty to support any decision someone want to make. If you choose that role for yourself go right ahead. Also, people did provide information. Lot's of it.As we are all in agreement that LCHF/Keto is as optimal as IIFYM/Calorie Counting, why don't we just address the OP's questions. If they want to give LCHF a go, good for them, lets help them get the tools and information they need to make it a success.
Not sure what thread you are reading but as winogelato pointed out, that never happened. You seem to view things from a skewed perspective.I did notice the first two responses were advising against it and preaching IIFYM.I see no mention of IIFYM in the first three posts on this thread. Are you conflating flexible dieting or all things in moderation or no particular focus on macros at all, with IIFYM?
9 -
Not aiming this at anyone in particular. I am addressing the direction that keto threads seem to usually go.
Perhaps people with a keto post and question could be could first be asked (trolled) if this is the first time in their life that they have tried to lose weight.... That is, if it is that important to you to make sure they don't first try a healthy diet that is just as successful as every other diet out there.
I really don't understand why people get so worried when someone limits sugars, grains and starchy carbs first. Nutritionally, those are not strong foods, and tend mainly to be just an energy source.... Which is exactly what one is trying to restrict to lose weight. You want to cut your energy intake.
Would those who caution against keto have people cut back on their eggs, meat, dairy, or leafy greens first instead of refined, highly processed, and nutritionally weak foods? Dieters have to restrict something. Restricting a little bit of everything, nutritionally strong or not, is not superior to restricting carbs.
And people continue to complain that keto'ers make outrageous claims... Most don't. Sure a few do but it is the minority. It comes at the same frequency that moderation/IIFYM/whatever dieters claim ACV is a weight loss secret, that one must use protein powder to lose weight, or that one must eat breakfast to rev up your metabolism. Don't assume all all keto dieters are preaching or clueless. I don't assume all moderation dieters think their diet is magical just because someone has the goofy belief that they must eat every 2-3 hours or their metabolism slows down.
I don't think we had any preaching or proselytizing in this thread but still, the trolling happens.
This is the original post:Thinking about trying the keto diet. I am trying to cut just a few pounds for a summer trip that I am taking with a couple of my friends. I have heard that keto is super easy to do after the initial two days. Please advise on how long it took for you to lose X number of pounds and to see the results or how long it took to get over the "keto flu" or tips on how to manage or good food to eat. Just any tips. Wanting to start soon!
Thanks for your help in advance.
xx
This was part of one of the first responses:"Easy" would be highly subjective and individual. Personally, I wouldn't find limiting carbohydrates to next to nothing very easy, nor would I find eating copious amounts of dietary fat easy or limiting protein easy?
No tips. No personal experiences offered. And incorrect information was given - only a medically prescribed therapeutic ketogenic diet restricts protein and those don't even do that much anymore (MCT is increased sometimes instead). Keto diets can end up with higher protein, which many believe is part of the satiating effects of keto.
It would be like a keto'er jumping into a moderation weight loss thread with:
"Easy would be highly subjective and individual. Personally, I wouldn't find torturing yourself with limited tastes of baked goods that stimulate the appetite, nor would I find the frequent blood glucose swings and hangries while limiting calories easy?"
That generally doesn't happen, whereas keto threads are regularly derailed.14 -
Not aiming this at anyone in particular. I am addressing the direction that keto threads seem to usually go.
Perhaps people with a keto post and question could be could first be asked (trolled) if this is the first time in their life that they have tried to lose weight.... That is, if it is that important to you to make sure they don't first try a healthy diet that is just as successful as every other diet out there.
I really don't understand why people get so worried when someone limits sugars, grains and starchy carbs first. Nutritionally, those are not strong foods, and tend mainly to be just an energy source.... Which is exactly what one is trying to restrict to lose weight. You want to cut your energy intake.
Would those who caution against keto have people cut back on their eggs, meat, dairy, or leafy greens first instead of refined, highly processed, and nutritionally weak foods? Dieters have to restrict something. Restricting a little bit of everything, nutritionally strong or not, is not superior to restricting carbs.
And people continue to complain that keto'ers make outrageous claims... Most don't. Sure a few do but it is the minority. It comes at the same frequency that moderation/IIFYM/whatever dieters claim ACV is a weight loss secret, that one must use protein powder to lose weight, or that one must eat breakfast to rev up your metabolism. Don't assume all all keto dieters are preaching or clueless. I don't assume all moderation dieters think their diet is magical just because someone has the goofy belief that they must eat every 2-3 hours or their metabolism slows down.
I don't think we had any preaching or proselytizing in this thread but still, the trolling happens.
This is the original post:Thinking about trying the keto diet. I am trying to cut just a few pounds for a summer trip that I am taking with a couple of my friends. I have heard that keto is super easy to do after the initial two days. Please advise on how long it took for you to lose X number of pounds and to see the results or how long it took to get over the "keto flu" or tips on how to manage or good food to eat. Just any tips. Wanting to start soon!
Thanks for your help in advance.
xx
This was part of one of the first responses:"Easy" would be highly subjective and individual. Personally, I wouldn't find limiting carbohydrates to next to nothing very easy, nor would I find eating copious amounts of dietary fat easy or limiting protein easy?
No tips. No personal experiences offered. And incorrect information was given - only a medically prescribed therapeutic ketogenic diet restricts protein and those don't even do that much anymore (MCT is increased sometimes instead). Keto diets can end up with higher protein, which many believe is part of the satiating effects of keto.
It would be like a keto'er jumping into a moderation weight loss thread with:
"Easy would be highly subjective and individual. Personally, I wouldn't find torturing yourself with limited tastes of baked goods that stimulate the appetite, nor would I find the frequent blood glucose swings and hangries while limiting calories easy?"
That generally doesn't happen, whereas keto threads are regularly derailed.
Sharing knowledge and personal experience/opinion with whatever the topic at hand is, isn't derailing. It wasn't in the section you quoted, nor is it in the one you fabricated. But opinions stated as facts (for *any* diet) will be refuted here.
That's what makes MFP an actual learning experience for those who actually care to learn. 8 -
michelle172415 wrote: »100_PROOF_ wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »michelle172415 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Thinking about trying the keto diet. I am trying to cut just a few pounds for a summer trip that I am taking with a couple of my friends. I have heard that keto is super easy to do after the initial two days. Please advise on how long it took for you to lose X number of pounds and to see the results or how long it took to get over the "keto flu" or tips on how to manage or good food to eat. Just any tips. Wanting to start soon!
Thanks for your help in advance.
xx
"Easy" would be highly subjective and individual. Personally, I wouldn't find limiting carbohydrates to next to nothing very easy, nor would I find eating copious amounts of dietary fat easy or limiting protein easy.
I suppose it's easy for some who gravitate towards eating a ton of fat and have little interest in fruits and vegetables and other quality carbohydrates in more than the tiniest amounts.
Also keep in mind that initial losses on the scale are largely water and glycogen depletion...if you're planning on drinking alcohol on your trip, be prepared to put back on water weight and bloat.
This is a very uneducated opinion about Keto. I eat plenty of vegetables and :::gasp::: even some fruit. They aren't tiny amounts, often my lunch is a huge plate of salad with protein and then a homemade Balsamic Vinaigrette. Dinner is often grilled meat and a large side of veggies cooked in healthy fat. Honestly, the only thing I eat copious amounts of are leafy green veggies because I love them. And sometimes, I want a potato, so I eat a potato. Yes, initial weight lost is often water weight, but that is common with most any diet, and not exclusive to Keto.
And for the record, I never had the Keto Flu. I did my research before starting and simply upped my electrolyte consumption and when I did have that initial water weight loss, I felt perfectly fine.
Yeah, nah...
One medium apple is 25g of carbohydrate...boom...you've just gone over the 20 measly grams of carbohydrates that most keto dieters are doing. Saying that you don't have to restrict fruits and veg is a *kitten* premise.
Most of my carbohydrates come from fruits and veg and some oats and legumes...I'm well over keto limits with my healthy carbohydrates.
Oh no, there's no such thing as healthy carbs. Fruits and vegetables- devil carbs . Same as eating cake all day and all.
*Insert eyeroll*
But you can drink unlimited whipping cream mixed with oil. You can even eat at a calorie surplus every day because it's magic.
You can't gain weight on keto. Only magical muscle.
Hehehe
Honestly, you sound really uneducated about Keto. You are making such a gross generalization and couldn't be further off target. Yes, some people may "eat keto" the way that you are describing, but that way is not the intent of keto. I follow a Keto diet, feel free to take a peek at my diary, I am neither chugging whipping cream mixed with oil nor eating at a calorie surplus every day. Anyone doing Keto with a half an ounce of intelligence knows that you need to eat healthy, whole foods and be consuming less calories than you burn. We're not all morons.
There will always be people misrepresenting each dieting "ideology".
IIFYM is great, it works, it's proven to lose weight, but just like keto, people think it's the whole story. The whole point of losing weight should be - primarily - for health reasons. So IIFYM can be abused, for example: 1800kcals of cake - that isn't going to be healthy. But taking it such extremes is ignoring all the good it can achieve.
IMO, my favourite thing about keto (which I've only done for about 4-5 months, but had my best results for fat loss ever) was how little I craved any carbs or sugars. Currently just trying to eat healthily within IIFYM and struggling to lose weight because I get cravings here and there and end up making a few awful choices. That just didn't happen for me on keto. I gave it up though because I don't think it's sustainable long term for me personally. I love a pizza, or an actual burger with a bun etc. I like the odd sandwich. And I like a LOT of peppers, green beans, asparagus etc. I like a bit of milk in my coffee. A lot of little otherwise harmless things were sacrificed for keto. I like to eat out once a week, sometimes more. I hate going to a restaurant and paying full price for a meal I could only half enjoy.
I'll be back on keto, but I'll maybe use it as a functional weight loss diet, rather than a way of life. It worked for me before, so there's no reason why I can't do it again, if needed.
My priorities fall like so:
Try and eat within your calorie goals
Get adequate protein for muscle recovery/building
Get adequate fruits and veg for vitamins/fibre
Fill the rest with what I like the most
Can you tell me the kind of cake that would fit a proper macro split in iifym?7 -
stevencloser wrote: »michelle172415 wrote: »100_PROOF_ wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »michelle172415 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Thinking about trying the keto diet. I am trying to cut just a few pounds for a summer trip that I am taking with a couple of my friends. I have heard that keto is super easy to do after the initial two days. Please advise on how long it took for you to lose X number of pounds and to see the results or how long it took to get over the "keto flu" or tips on how to manage or good food to eat. Just any tips. Wanting to start soon!
Thanks for your help in advance.
xx
"Easy" would be highly subjective and individual. Personally, I wouldn't find limiting carbohydrates to next to nothing very easy, nor would I find eating copious amounts of dietary fat easy or limiting protein easy.
I suppose it's easy for some who gravitate towards eating a ton of fat and have little interest in fruits and vegetables and other quality carbohydrates in more than the tiniest amounts.
Also keep in mind that initial losses on the scale are largely water and glycogen depletion...if you're planning on drinking alcohol on your trip, be prepared to put back on water weight and bloat.
This is a very uneducated opinion about Keto. I eat plenty of vegetables and :::gasp::: even some fruit. They aren't tiny amounts, often my lunch is a huge plate of salad with protein and then a homemade Balsamic Vinaigrette. Dinner is often grilled meat and a large side of veggies cooked in healthy fat. Honestly, the only thing I eat copious amounts of are leafy green veggies because I love them. And sometimes, I want a potato, so I eat a potato. Yes, initial weight lost is often water weight, but that is common with most any diet, and not exclusive to Keto.
And for the record, I never had the Keto Flu. I did my research before starting and simply upped my electrolyte consumption and when I did have that initial water weight loss, I felt perfectly fine.
Yeah, nah...
One medium apple is 25g of carbohydrate...boom...you've just gone over the 20 measly grams of carbohydrates that most keto dieters are doing. Saying that you don't have to restrict fruits and veg is a *kitten* premise.
Most of my carbohydrates come from fruits and veg and some oats and legumes...I'm well over keto limits with my healthy carbohydrates.
Oh no, there's no such thing as healthy carbs. Fruits and vegetables- devil carbs . Same as eating cake all day and all.
*Insert eyeroll*
But you can drink unlimited whipping cream mixed with oil. You can even eat at a calorie surplus every day because it's magic.
You can't gain weight on keto. Only magical muscle.
Hehehe
Honestly, you sound really uneducated about Keto. You are making such a gross generalization and couldn't be further off target. Yes, some people may "eat keto" the way that you are describing, but that way is not the intent of keto. I follow a Keto diet, feel free to take a peek at my diary, I am neither chugging whipping cream mixed with oil nor eating at a calorie surplus every day. Anyone doing Keto with a half an ounce of intelligence knows that you need to eat healthy, whole foods and be consuming less calories than you burn. We're not all morons.
There will always be people misrepresenting each dieting "ideology".
IIFYM is great, it works, it's proven to lose weight, but just like keto, people think it's the whole story. The whole point of losing weight should be - primarily - for health reasons. So IIFYM can be abused, for example: 1800kcals of cake - that isn't going to be healthy. But taking it such extremes is ignoring all the good it can achieve.
IMO, my favourite thing about keto (which I've only done for about 4-5 months, but had my best results for fat loss ever) was how little I craved any carbs or sugars. Currently just trying to eat healthily within IIFYM and struggling to lose weight because I get cravings here and there and end up making a few awful choices. That just didn't happen for me on keto. I gave it up though because I don't think it's sustainable long term for me personally. I love a pizza, or an actual burger with a bun etc. I like the odd sandwich. And I like a LOT of peppers, green beans, asparagus etc. I like a bit of milk in my coffee. A lot of little otherwise harmless things were sacrificed for keto. I like to eat out once a week, sometimes more. I hate going to a restaurant and paying full price for a meal I could only half enjoy.
I'll be back on keto, but I'll maybe use it as a functional weight loss diet, rather than a way of life. It worked for me before, so there's no reason why I can't do it again, if needed.
My priorities fall like so:
Try and eat within your calorie goals
Get adequate protein for muscle recovery/building
Get adequate fruits and veg for vitamins/fibre
Fill the rest with what I like the most
Can you tell me the kind of cake that would fit a proper macro split in iifym?
Very relevant question. Many people apparently think "IIFYM" is somehow an acronym for "eat nothing but junk food", or "eat whatever you want all the time". The key phrase in the acronym is "Fits Your Macros". Unless somebody has a ridiculously stupid macro split, they're not going to "FYM" eating 1800 calories of cake, or Snickers bars, or Big Macs. Or, for that matter, on 1800 calories of broccoli, kale or spinach.4 -
snickerscharlie wrote: »Not aiming this at anyone in particular. I am addressing the direction that keto threads seem to usually go.
Perhaps people with a keto post and question could be could first be asked (trolled) if this is the first time in their life that they have tried to lose weight.... That is, if it is that important to you to make sure they don't first try a healthy diet that is just as successful as every other diet out there.
I really don't understand why people get so worried when someone limits sugars, grains and starchy carbs first. Nutritionally, those are not strong foods, and tend mainly to be just an energy source.... Which is exactly what one is trying to restrict to lose weight. You want to cut your energy intake.
Would those who caution against keto have people cut back on their eggs, meat, dairy, or leafy greens first instead of refined, highly processed, and nutritionally weak foods? Dieters have to restrict something. Restricting a little bit of everything, nutritionally strong or not, is not superior to restricting carbs.
And people continue to complain that keto'ers make outrageous claims... Most don't. Sure a few do but it is the minority. It comes at the same frequency that moderation/IIFYM/whatever dieters claim ACV is a weight loss secret, that one must use protein powder to lose weight, or that one must eat breakfast to rev up your metabolism. Don't assume all all keto dieters are preaching or clueless. I don't assume all moderation dieters think their diet is magical just because someone has the goofy belief that they must eat every 2-3 hours or their metabolism slows down.
I don't think we had any preaching or proselytizing in this thread but still, the trolling happens.
This is the original post:Thinking about trying the keto diet. I am trying to cut just a few pounds for a summer trip that I am taking with a couple of my friends. I have heard that keto is super easy to do after the initial two days. Please advise on how long it took for you to lose X number of pounds and to see the results or how long it took to get over the "keto flu" or tips on how to manage or good food to eat. Just any tips. Wanting to start soon!
Thanks for your help in advance.
xx
This was part of one of the first responses:"Easy" would be highly subjective and individual. Personally, I wouldn't find limiting carbohydrates to next to nothing very easy, nor would I find eating copious amounts of dietary fat easy or limiting protein easy?
No tips. No personal experiences offered. And incorrect information was given - only a medically prescribed therapeutic ketogenic diet restricts protein and those don't even do that much anymore (MCT is increased sometimes instead). Keto diets can end up with higher protein, which many believe is part of the satiating effects of keto.
It would be like a keto'er jumping into a moderation weight loss thread with:
"Easy would be highly subjective and individual. Personally, I wouldn't find torturing yourself with limited tastes of baked goods that stimulate the appetite, nor would I find the frequent blood glucose swings and hangries while limiting calories easy?"
That generally doesn't happen, whereas keto threads are regularly derailed.
Sharing knowledge and personal experience/opinion with whatever the topic at hand is, isn't derailing. It wasn't in the section you quoted, nor is it in the one you fabricated. But opinions stated as facts (for *any* diet) will be refuted here.
That's what makes MFP an actual learning experience for those who actually care to learn.
QFT! I think it is seen differently when one has an ideology to defend though.2 -
snickerscharlie wrote: »Not aiming this at anyone in particular. I am addressing the direction that keto threads seem to usually go.
Perhaps people with a keto post and question could be could first be asked (trolled) if this is the first time in their life that they have tried to lose weight.... That is, if it is that important to you to make sure they don't first try a healthy diet that is just as successful as every other diet out there.
I really don't understand why people get so worried when someone limits sugars, grains and starchy carbs first. Nutritionally, those are not strong foods, and tend mainly to be just an energy source.... Which is exactly what one is trying to restrict to lose weight. You want to cut your energy intake.
Would those who caution against keto have people cut back on their eggs, meat, dairy, or leafy greens first instead of refined, highly processed, and nutritionally weak foods? Dieters have to restrict something. Restricting a little bit of everything, nutritionally strong or not, is not superior to restricting carbs.
And people continue to complain that keto'ers make outrageous claims... Most don't. Sure a few do but it is the minority. It comes at the same frequency that moderation/IIFYM/whatever dieters claim ACV is a weight loss secret, that one must use protein powder to lose weight, or that one must eat breakfast to rev up your metabolism. Don't assume all all keto dieters are preaching or clueless. I don't assume all moderation dieters think their diet is magical just because someone has the goofy belief that they must eat every 2-3 hours or their metabolism slows down.
I don't think we had any preaching or proselytizing in this thread but still, the trolling happens.
This is the original post:Thinking about trying the keto diet. I am trying to cut just a few pounds for a summer trip that I am taking with a couple of my friends. I have heard that keto is super easy to do after the initial two days. Please advise on how long it took for you to lose X number of pounds and to see the results or how long it took to get over the "keto flu" or tips on how to manage or good food to eat. Just any tips. Wanting to start soon!
Thanks for your help in advance.
xx
This was part of one of the first responses:"Easy" would be highly subjective and individual. Personally, I wouldn't find limiting carbohydrates to next to nothing very easy, nor would I find eating copious amounts of dietary fat easy or limiting protein easy?
No tips. No personal experiences offered. And incorrect information was given - only a medically prescribed therapeutic ketogenic diet restricts protein and those don't even do that much anymore (MCT is increased sometimes instead). Keto diets can end up with higher protein, which many believe is part of the satiating effects of keto.
It would be like a keto'er jumping into a moderation weight loss thread with:
"Easy would be highly subjective and individual. Personally, I wouldn't find torturing yourself with limited tastes of baked goods that stimulate the appetite, nor would I find the frequent blood glucose swings and hangries while limiting calories easy?"
That generally doesn't happen, whereas keto threads are regularly derailed.
Sharing knowledge and personal experience/opinion with whatever the topic at hand is, isn't derailing. It wasn't in the section you quoted, nor is it in the one you fabricated. But opinions stated as facts (for *any* diet) will be refuted here.
That's what makes MFP an actual learning experience for those who actually care to learn.
Personal experience and knowledge isn't being shared though. It's (sometimes misinformed) opinions.
Imagine this thread with keto or counting calories in it:
"I just started keto/calorie counting last week and am loving it! I never knew weight loss could be so easy. I'm looking for other dieters on the same journey. Please share our tips and personal experiences. Let's do this!"
A response to the keto thread might be:
"You know, all you need to lose weight is a calorie deficit. I could never cut out all carbs!"
Now consider almost the same response to a calorie counting thread along the same lines:
"You know, if you do keto your appetite may be suppressed and you won't need to calorie count. I could never bother with counting every calorie!"
I've been around these forums for a few years. I know which unhelpful scenario is more likely.14 -
It looks to me there are very few here who view this as you do and those that do are keto advocates. Those with a more objective viewpoint, no so much.5
-
Thinking about trying the keto diet. I am trying to cut just a few pounds for a summer trip that I am taking with a couple of my friends. I have heard that keto is super easy to do after the initial two days. Please advise on how long it took for you to lose X number of pounds and to see the results or how long it took to get over the "keto flu" or tips on how to manage or good food to eat. Just any tips. Wanting to start soon!
Thanks for your help in advance.
xx
Not sure if you checked this website.
https://www.ruled.me/
Try it and you will see if this works for you. I have been Keto for 3 years, Good Luck.0 -
tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »
Lol, you wooers can woo away all you want. Still doesn't change the fact that a meta-analysis of 32 studies controlled for calories and protein intake showed no metabolic advantage to a ketogenic diet. Those woo must be the cheering kind!
So you can finally admit keto and LCHF is as good your IIFYM diet!
Just what many of us have been saying for year! Gotta love science.
Woo away!
This is going to blow your mind but @mmapags follows a low carb diet.
It’s a good choice.
He must be happy he’s on a diet that’s as good as it gets
There can be many ways of eating that can be as good as it gets. LC/ Keto is only one.
I'm going to level with you. You always seem to be spoiling for some kind of argument where one doesn't exist and spinning what people say to advocate for a point of view. You say you agree with psulemon on the 10 to 20% number yet you always play the white knight for LC/Keto diets.
You've never once asked what my eating plan is and why. You just assume I'm anti LC/Keto and think you have to be the white knight for the case. I am pro science. That's it.
I don't eat low carb for any other reason than it is my natural preference. And I don't eat high fat at all. I am mostly a high protein and high fiber vegetable and fruit eater. That is just my natural preference and how I am most satisfied to eat. I learned, based on the available research, a long time ago that there are only a few variable that matter. 1) activity and fitness, 2) calorie control 3) eating in a way that supports your goals and is sustainable. After calories, protein is the #1 priority and after that the rest just seems to fall into place.
So, high protein, high fiber veggies and fruits and getting a minimal amount of fats to keep the body functioning properly. Neither pro or anti fat. Just not a prefered food.
I overate eating that way and have lost 30lbs to get myself back to a reasonable healthy weight range. So eating low carb did nothing for me without monitoring calories. So eating LC without monitoring calories was a poor proposition for me.
I could lose about 10 or 15 more to be ideal. For 67 years old, I'm very fit. I have solid weight lifting numbers for my age group and get a reasonable amount of cardio. My labs are exceptional every year for the last several years for cholesterol, triglycerides and A1c.
Exercise and calorie management are the things most responsible for my good health. Simple as that.
So, a suggestion. If you agree with me, as you said, and you agree with psulemon, as you said, maybe give it a rest with the white knighting and ax grinding regarding keto. Just sayin'.....
I'm not spoiling for anything, but it does aggravate me when people post on these forums looking for help and assistance, as they try and find a new way of eating to help them hit a calorie deficit and are almost immediately side tracked on their efforts.
I would suggest that for most people looking at LCHF or KETO they haven't chosen it as a first option and have tried the IIFYM moderation route, or alternative routes and they maybe didn't work for them, it doesn't for a lot of people.
But rather than offer assistance on the topic the OP has asked the question of, on many occasions the IIFYM / Calorie Counted is offered as an alternative, before actually addressing the OP's original question....why? If you are pro science then why try and steer someone away from something that might work for them?
As I mentioned, I have never once claimed LCHF is better than any other diet, I have never once claimed that LCHF works beyond CICO. Also I have never once had the arrogance or ignorance to jump onto the calorie counting thread and preach LCHF, when the OP is clearly asking information on calorie counting / IIFYM. just sayin'....
So, a suggestion. As we are all in agreement that LCHF/Keto is as optimal as IIFYM/Calorie Counting, why don't we just address the OP's questions. If they want to give LCHF a go, good for them, lets help them get the tools and information they need to make it a success.
Let me try to add some different perspective and relate it to another forum to understand why i go into a ton of variety of posts.
Of someone is new to diet, like exercise, they rarely do so with an extensive knowledge base. And often their decision to follow a respective diet or exercise routine may not align to their eating patterns or goals. This is an important factor that many people don't take into consideration.
If a person comes into the bodybuilding second section stating they want to gain muscle and then talk about a bro-split, than i would suggest a different routine. Why, because its highly inefficient for their goals. If someone ask about keto, but says they crave and love fruits or starches and find those satiating, than keto is unlikely a good model for them. Because honestly, the diet that you are going to find sustainable is the one that aligns to your natural eating patterns.
If a person struggles to moderate, than the best path is abstinence until a person learns how to moderate. Or remove those things for life to eliminate binges. If a person tends to like proteins and fats and are satiatied by those, than keto or low carb is a good path.
But what usually happens is a person has a friend or watches a documentary or YouTube and thinks its right for them. And statistically, it wont be. They can certainly try it but they should understand why they are doing it and what is required.
For someone like me, i chose a brutal path because moderation isnt working and structure is what i need.
Keto is a craze right now, no different than, Paleo was a few years ago. So it will get more attention in threads.7 -
OK, I have to confess I quit reading all the comments at page 5, lol but I wanted to weigh in (pun intended, lol). I did the Atkins diet years ago and here is what I learned. On low carb I lost very quickly at the beginning then I lost my appetite and weight loss slowed but with less appetite it seemed easier for a while. After a few months on the diet I couldn't take it anymore and was ready to sell my right arm for a potato. I had lost about 50 pounds tho. I quit the diet and promptly gained 12 pounds (in a week!). I realize now it was basically water as my gylcogen stores came back. I proceeded to regain the weight I lost fairly quickly as I made up for every carb I had missed. I didn't learn anything about a lifestyle change because I was not able to maintain the low carb lifestyle. So my personal experience was:
1) I lost weight.
2) I lost my appetite
3) the rebound weight gain was brutal.
4) I couldn't maintain the program.
Over the years I tried many times to do the diet again thinking I would lose then switch to healthy eating and maintain. It never worked for me. Once my gall bladder was removed I could no longer handle the high fat component of the diet so low carb was no longer even a possibility for me. I finally lost on MFP by making lifestyle changes I could live with permanently eg: logging my food and moving regularly. If you like the low carb lifestyle and it works for you there's nothing wrong with it but ultimately for me I had to find something I could do for the rest of my life. I'm down 104 pounds and maintaining now. Remember, ultimately this is YOUR program and it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks. Do what works for you. Good luck on your journey.10 -
tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »
Lol, you wooers can woo away all you want. Still doesn't change the fact that a meta-analysis of 32 studies controlled for calories and protein intake showed no metabolic advantage to a ketogenic diet. Those woo must be the cheering kind!
So you can finally admit keto and LCHF is as good your IIFYM diet!
Just what many of us have been saying for year! Gotta love science.
Woo away!
This is going to blow your mind but @mmapags follows a low carb diet.
It’s a good choice.
He must be happy he’s on a diet that’s as good as it gets
There can be many ways of eating that can be as good as it gets. LC/ Keto is only one.
I'm going to level with you. You always seem to be spoiling for some kind of argument where one doesn't exist and spinning what people say to advocate for a point of view. You say you agree with psulemon on the 10 to 20% number yet you always play the white knight for LC/Keto diets.
You've never once asked what my eating plan is and why. You just assume I'm anti LC/Keto and think you have to be the white knight for the case. I am pro science. That's it.
I don't eat low carb for any other reason than it is my natural preference. And I don't eat high fat at all. I am mostly a high protein and high fiber vegetable and fruit eater. That is just my natural preference and how I am most satisfied to eat. I learned, based on the available research, a long time ago that there are only a few variable that matter. 1) activity and fitness, 2) calorie control 3) eating in a way that supports your goals and is sustainable. After calories, protein is the #1 priority and after that the rest just seems to fall into place.
So, high protein, high fiber veggies and fruits and getting a minimal amount of fats to keep the body functioning properly. Neither pro or anti fat. Just not a prefered food.
I overate eating that way and have lost 30lbs to get myself back to a reasonable healthy weight range. So eating low carb did nothing for me without monitoring calories. So eating LC without monitoring calories was a poor proposition for me.
I could lose about 10 or 15 more to be ideal. For 67 years old, I'm very fit. I have solid weight lifting numbers for my age group and get a reasonable amount of cardio. My labs are exceptional every year for the last several years for cholesterol, triglycerides and A1c.
Exercise and calorie management are the things most responsible for my good health. Simple as that.
So, a suggestion. If you agree with me, as you said, and you agree with psulemon, as you said, maybe give it a rest with the white knighting and ax grinding regarding keto. Just sayin'.....
I'm not spoiling for anything, but it does aggravate me when people post on these forums looking for help and assistance, as they try and find a new way of eating to help them hit a calorie deficit and are almost immediately side tracked on their efforts.
I would suggest that for most people looking at LCHF or KETO they haven't chosen it as a first option and have tried the IIFYM moderation route, or alternative routes and they maybe didn't work for them, it doesn't for a lot of people.
But rather than offer assistance on the topic the OP has asked the question of, on many occasions the IIFYM / Calorie Counted is offered as an alternative, before actually addressing the OP's original question....why? If you are pro science then why try and steer someone away from something that might work for them?
As I mentioned, I have never once claimed LCHF is better than any other diet, I have never once claimed that LCHF works beyond CICO. Also I have never once had the arrogance or ignorance to jump onto the calorie counting thread and preach LCHF, when the OP is clearly asking information on calorie counting / IIFYM. just sayin'....
So, a suggestion. As we are all in agreement that LCHF/Keto is as optimal as IIFYM/Calorie Counting, why don't we just address the OP's questions. If they want to give LCHF a go, good for them, lets help them get the tools and information they need to make it a success.
Let me try to add some different perspective and relate it to another forum to understand why i go into a ton of variety of posts.
Of someone is new to diet, like exercise, they rarely do so with an extensive knowledge base. And often their decision to follow a respective diet or exercise routine may not align to their eating patterns or goals. This is an important factor that many people don't take into consideration.
If a person comes into the bodybuilding second section stating they want to gain muscle and then talk about a bro-split, than i would suggest a different routine. Why, because its highly inefficient for their goals. If someone ask about keto, but says they crave and love fruits or starches and find those satiating, than keto is unlikely a good model for them. Because honestly, the diet that you are going to find sustainable is the one that aligns to your natural eating patterns.
If a person struggles to moderate, than the best path is abstinence until a person learns how to moderate. Or remove those things for life to eliminate binges. If a person tends to like proteins and fats and are satiatied by those, than keto or low carb is a good path.
But what usually happens is a person has a friend or watches a documentary or YouTube and thinks its right for them. And statistically, it wont be. They can certainly try it but they should understand why they are doing it and what is required.
For someone like me, i chose a brutal path because moderation isnt working and structure is what i need.
Keto is a craze right now, no different than, Paleo was a few years ago. So it will get more attention in threads.
QFT!2 -
It looks to me there are very few here who view this as you do and those that do are keto advocates. Those with a more objective viewpoint, no so much.
Yeah, that is partially because they learned what source of response to expect and now post on other forums or in specific MFP groups, and partially because a minority are doing keto - most aim to use "eat less move more" only.
6 -
@cheryldumais You're right, cheryl. No one has to ask anyone's permission to choose their pathway. When I was a kid, all of the parents were doing Atkins. They were eating giant hunks of cheddar cheese and roast beef slices. Most of them were locked up tighter than a drum. They were swilling water and dropping it like it was hot.
Some of them were combining the WW with Atkins, just leaving all of the carbs out. Remember those diet pates with a hamburger patty, cottage cheese and mealy tomato slices, everyone was having one of those when they went out. I was absorbing everything like a sponge and watched them closely. We learn by example.
Grandma was a WW lifer. Next came the Diet Center, dehydrated meal delivery and everyone could eat ak mak crackers with their diet plate. Ooo, and my grandma used appetite suppressant candy bars . She had to hide those because we would eat all of them. My grandmother's life was one big diet all of the days of her life. She never graduated. It skipped a generation and it landed on me.
I thought dieting was fun. I lived for the new diets in dippy magazines. Couldn't wait for the new woman's world diet every single week. After years of dieting comes the metabolic blowback. With every weight loss and dieting excursion and eating it all back with friends the ground grows colder with each passing day.2
This discussion has been closed.
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