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Meat only diet
Replies
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stevencloser wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »MikePfirrman wrote: »Do did this Shawn Baker guy that everyone seems to idolize and respect as "the go-to carnivore guy" ever get his medical license reinstated?
He has around a 15 minute video on YouTube related to the circumstances behind that. I had no idea it was suspended. I personally like the guy. I'm a rower, though, and found him to be pretty open minded and very transparent, even though personally I disagree with his health choices. I've known Shawn (albeit not that well) for years through rowing, not through following him on Instagram.
Before he came onto the scene with his Instagram and on the Joe Rogan show, etc., he was just a guy that was working on rowing WR 500 and 1000m rows (which he ended up breaking). Now, it seems, he's also posted some medical reports where vegans are saying "see, he's not healthy" and there's a new whole debate about his health, all while he's still performing extremely well on athletic performances. Extreme low carbers and paleo supporters say his numbers are all explainable.
Regardless of what you think about him, the guy has put himself out there as a human "guinea pig". I personally think anything that extreme for long periods of time isn't healthy. His performances have defied the norm, no question. Whether or not his extreme lifestyle if a good thing/bad thing long term remains for debate.
BTW, I'm mostly Vegan, so no agenda here on the Paleo, ultra low carb bandwagon...
While you can certainly still have great athletic performance on a carnivore diet, biological fact remains that ketosis and fat oxidation doesn't support high bursts of energy as well as a diet with carbs glucose does. There's no way around that. I dont know the guy, maybe he does it like most other people who are touted as elite low carb athletes and carbs up before an event has enough gluconeogenesis. Maybe he's a freak of nature. IMO He'd still probably perform a tad better fueled by carbs in an intense event.
FIFY
No, not gluconeogenesis. As far as I know the body doesn't do enough gluconeogenesis to support someone doing intense workouts. Especially not in keto where the whole shtick is making your body use less glucose. If you have any resources showing where people created enough glucose through gluconeogenesis to support things like rowing world records, high intensity exercise that eats through energy like it's nothing, feel free to show them to me. And anyway, gluconeogenesis is still less efficient than having filled glycogen stores available beforehand.
I can't speak for "normal" people, but I manage whether dietary protein is used for gluconeogenesis or protein synthesis. For those who do not manage blood glucose and insulin manually, I would expect even better management of this process and not worse. After all, that is a big part of why type 1 diabetes is an impairment for me and not an advantage.5 -
stevencloser wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »MikePfirrman wrote: »Do did this Shawn Baker guy that everyone seems to idolize and respect as "the go-to carnivore guy" ever get his medical license reinstated?
He has around a 15 minute video on YouTube related to the circumstances behind that. I had no idea it was suspended. I personally like the guy. I'm a rower, though, and found him to be pretty open minded and very transparent, even though personally I disagree with his health choices. I've known Shawn (albeit not that well) for years through rowing, not through following him on Instagram.
Before he came onto the scene with his Instagram and on the Joe Rogan show, etc., he was just a guy that was working on rowing WR 500 and 1000m rows (which he ended up breaking). Now, it seems, he's also posted some medical reports where vegans are saying "see, he's not healthy" and there's a new whole debate about his health, all while he's still performing extremely well on athletic performances. Extreme low carbers and paleo supporters say his numbers are all explainable.
Regardless of what you think about him, the guy has put himself out there as a human "guinea pig". I personally think anything that extreme for long periods of time isn't healthy. His performances have defied the norm, no question. Whether or not his extreme lifestyle if a good thing/bad thing long term remains for debate.
BTW, I'm mostly Vegan, so no agenda here on the Paleo, ultra low carb bandwagon...
While you can certainly still have great athletic performance on a carnivore diet, biological fact remains that ketosis and fat oxidation doesn't support high bursts of energy as well as a diet with carbs glucose does. There's no way around that. I dont know the guy, maybe he does it like most other people who are touted as elite low carb athletes and carbs up before an event has enough gluconeogenesis. Maybe he's a freak of nature. IMO He'd still probably perform a tad better fueled by carbs in an intense event.
FIFY
No, not gluconeogenesis. As far as I know the body doesn't do enough gluconeogenesis to support someone doing intense workouts. Especially not in keto where the whole shtick is making your body use less glucose. If you have any resources showing where people created enough glucose through gluconeogenesis to support things like rowing world records, high intensity exercise that eats through energy like it's nothing, feel free to show them to me. And anyway, gluconeogenesis is still less efficient than having filled glycogen stores available beforehand.
So you are assuming he is lying or cheated on his WRs? Or that fat, or lactic acid, or whatever, is enough to fuel his high intensity workouts?4 -
https://philmaffetone.com/big-fat-surprise/
Perhaps this is what Baker (and others) are arguing. There are those on here that know way more about metabolism than I claim to. I seem to remember that most arguing you didn't need carbs for high performance athletics claimed that most studies hadn't examined athletes given adequate time to adapt to ultra low carbs. Seems that this was the purpose of this study that was cited in this article (study is at the end).
Again, I've tried ultra low carb and was miserable. Not for me for sure.
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MikePfirrman wrote: »https://philmaffetone.com/big-fat-surprise/
Perhaps this is what Baker (and others) are arguing. There are those on here that know way more about metabolism than I claim to. I seem to remember that most arguing you didn't need carbs for high performance athletics claimed that most studies hadn't examined athletes given adequate time to adapt to ultra low carbs. Seems that this was the purpose of this study that was cited in this article (study is at the end).
Again, I've tried ultra low carb and was miserable. Not for me for sure.
It's going to take a lot more tine and studies to convince everyone, plus a lot of n=1 self experiments. It took a long time for the idea that you don't need to carb load for endurance sports to get a small hold. Fat for a fuel choice for any sport is not a common idea. Plus, as you said, it won't be for everyone.4 -
Sounds gross.
And what a life with no raspberries.
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Bears are big and strong. They eat raspberries. Lots of them.5
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Do did this Shawn Baker guy that everyone seems to idolize and respect as "the go-to carnivore guy" ever get his medical license reinstated?
Baker's neither idolized nor "the go-to carnivore guy" in carnivore circles. He just gets mentioned in discussions like this, because Joe Rogan's relatively mainstream (compared to the actual carnivore role models). He's also a successful athlete, which mitigates a lot of criticisms aimed at more regular people. It can't really be said that it works for Baker, because he's a desk job worker and doesn't really tax his body.Bears are big and strong. They eat raspberries. Lots of them.
Bears also eat humans, so there's that.
MikePfirrman wrote: »https://philmaffetone.com/big-fat-surprise/
Perhaps this is what Baker (and others) are arguing. There are those on here that know way more about metabolism than I claim to. I seem to remember that most arguing you didn't need carbs for high performance athletics claimed that most studies hadn't examined athletes given adequate time to adapt to ultra low carbs. Seems that this was the purpose of this study that was cited in this article (study is at the end).
Again, I've tried ultra low carb and was miserable. Not for me for sure.
I wish the pages had survived his recent site redesign, but Dr. Peter Attia had some interesting pages regarding his athletic ability, including things like fat oxidation measurements, before and after going keto. In a nutshell, after he was fully adapted, his body would burn fat into higher levels of intensity than before. This would translate into doing higher intensity before even needing to tap into glucose/glycogen stores. It was quite a fascinating case study.I always thought keto was too extreme for me, but an all-carnivore diet?.. I just hope it doesn't become the next fad diet once the keto fad goes away.
Even as one who's an avid ketoer/low-carber and have even done full-on carnivore, I agree with your hope that it doesn't become the next fad. The fads miss the point of these ways of eating, even with keto, and makes it more difficult for those of us eating this way for our health.TavistockToad wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »roseprice0128 wrote: »Hi there. I’m trying to go on the no carb diet... does anyone have any recipes or tips and tricks they’d like to share???
Just meat and fat?
Just meat - sounds like heaven.
until its day 5 and you haven't pooped...
As long as you're not trying to live on skinless chicken breasts, it's actually generally a non-issue. There's enough fat to keep things moving.
There's also the bioavailability thing to take into account, and meat doesn't require fermentation to get at the nutrients.
Fewer undigestible parts = more broken down and absorbed = less waste in general.
Add the fat into the mix to help keep things "lubricated" and all the parts working as intended, and the result is actually some pretty good regularity and more "healthy" stools.5 -
Humans = omnivores. Just look at your teeth & the GI tract. Compare this anatomy to say a horse & a lion.
The eskimo paradox is completely environmental (evolution/geographic isolation for selection/mutations takes some time). #fad diet
Bottom line - humans can be carnivorous if they need to (all about adapting, having thumbs, & using tools)2 -
Talking about tools, salt, refrigeration, fire and the meat grinder have made an all meat diet achievable.
Just as the blender made the raw vegan possible.1 -
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TavistockToad wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »roseprice0128 wrote: »Hi there. I’m trying to go on the no carb diet... does anyone have any recipes or tips and tricks they’d like to share???
Just meat and fat?
Just meat - sounds like heaven.
until its day 5 and you haven't pooped...
Not true. I follow a keto diet (for my epilepsy) and most days are actually close to zero carb. I used to be vegan/vegetarian and had the worst digestive issues I've ever experienced. The main one being chronic constipation, despite how much water I drank. Now my meat, egg, cheese, fats, diet not only has reduced my seizures but my constipation is completely gone, despite little to no fiber. And my stomach isn't swollen with trapped gas anymore.10 -
KrazyKrissyy wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »roseprice0128 wrote: »Hi there. I’m trying to go on the no carb diet... does anyone have any recipes or tips and tricks they’d like to share???
Just meat and fat?
Just meat - sounds like heaven.
until its day 5 and you haven't pooped...
Not true. I follow a keto diet (for my epilepsy) and most days are actually close to zero carb. I used to be vegan/vegetarian and had the worst digestive issues I've ever experienced. The main one being chronic constipation, despite how much water I drank. Now my meat, egg, cheese, fats, diet not only has reduced my seizures but my constipation is completely gone, despite little to no fiber. And my stomach isn't swollen with trapped gas anymore.
So the 25 pound intestinal blockage you mentioned recently happened when you were vegan/vegetarian? What did you doctors think caused that?4
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