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That Keto is so hot right now
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I always thought Keto diet was a fad and also thought the high fat content could be bad in the long run. All of that changed when I happened across, by chance, a documentary "The Magic Pill". It totally fascinated me. There was a line where the author asked "Why is it that every animal on earth can regulate its body weight except man or any animal cared for by man?"
It sealed the deal and got me to change my diet. I was already eating somewhat this way so all I need to do was reduce or give up bread (was 26g daily) and stop eating fries or chips with lunch. I just started and down 8 pounds so far.
yeah no....all documentaries should be viewed with a side-eye - as they present only one side of any debate (see also What the Health)2 -
I always thought Keto diet was a fad and also thought the high fat content could be bad in the long run. All of that changed when I happened across, by chance, a documentary "The Magic Pill". It totally fascinated me. There was a line where the author asked "Why is it that every animal on earth can regulate its body weight except man or any animal cared for by man?"
It sealed the deal and got me to change my diet. I was already eating somewhat this way so all I need to do was reduce or give up bread (was 26g daily) and stop eating fries or chips with lunch. I just started and down 8 pounds so far.
fat happens in other animals
i've seen fat wild rabbits and deer. a few hefty seagulls
and definitely domestic animals get fat. i've seen obese dogs and cats. i know people who've had to lock up food otherwise canines would eat all the foods they could get their paws on.
some of my dogs like broccoli some run and hide.
some like bread and popcorn, some spit them out.
one will sneak attack you for your twizzler, the other could care less.
we are not alone. but i think some of the question is availability1 -
I always thought Keto diet was a fad and also thought the high fat content could be bad in the long run. All of that changed when I happened across, by chance, a documentary "The Magic Pill". It totally fascinated me. There was a line where the author asked "Why is it that every animal on earth can regulate its body weight except man or any animal cared for by man?"
It sealed the deal and got me to change my diet. I was already eating somewhat this way so all I need to do was reduce or give up bread (was 26g daily) and stop eating fries or chips with lunch. I just started and down 8 pounds so far.
@rsclause I had been doing keto for several years before I saw the movie and found it to be based on science and my experience was the same as others.
I had thought Binging eating was an eating disorder that I just had to live with. 30 days in my carb cravings started to fade and now my binging issues has been gone for several years.
Before I had thought calorie counting was needed to manage my weight. I did not know in my case binging was caused by eating over 50 grams of carbs daily.
While Keto is not required by many people but it fixed me in so many ways I plan to enjoy if for life.8 -
I have a comment about keto. It's legit and I'd really like to hear from those in the know. I'm not one to pick on keto or ketoers. To each their own and I think people should talk about whatever eating style they want to talk about here, including elimination diets.
But when I first signed up on MFP 4+ years ago, keto was generally defined as 50 grams of carb a day or less. Over the years the keto definition has dropped about 10 grams of carb from the daily total every year.
Currently keto folk seem to define keto as 15 grams of carb a day. That's a far cry from 50 grams of carb a day. I've tried it and it feels completely different. It's the difference between eating two servings of fruit and two servings of non starchy vegetable a day to pretty much only having one serving of vegetable a day with no fruit at all or getting the 15 grams from small portions of dairy and nuts only.
I predict keto will eventually be defined as 5 grams of carb a day.
Why do the carb counts that supposedly define what is keto keep dropping?
My snarky answer would be that each of the diet gurus has to put his/her spin on it and thus the numbers differ... but I also know posters on these boards who reliably maintain ketosis at around 50g (or slightly more) of carbs a day with an active lifestyle and posters who have trouble when they get that high of a carb count, so it really is down to the individual and how their body responds to the process. From my understanding of the research the majority of people can reliably maintain ketosis at 20g of carbs and that may also be the reason for the drop in values.
I think that's mainly it. The duet gurus found a good number and not its out there.
When I started, there was Jimmy Moore touting keto as good. Now there are many more.
The doctors who are advocating for it don't seem as militant as just 20g for keto. It's the youtubers that go that way, IMO. Usually with too much of a tan and a t-shirt that is a size too small.
To be fair, I think 20 g is a growing target due to the large amount of T2Ds who are using it to treat their IR. Around 50g (net or total) seems to work for most people to be in ketosis basically all of the time, but that might be too high for the T2Ds with a liver that's kicking out too much glucose.
And part of it is just that pendulum swing. Higher carb used to be the way to go - avoid those artery clogging fats! Now the pendulum has swung to the other side with fats being embraced, and healthy carbs being demonized by some.
I'd love to see default macros for the average kid and adult settle out at a zone type setting in between the high carb recommendations of over 50%, and Keto levels below 10%. I think around 30C, 30P, and 40F would be good for many.4 -
annaskiski wrote: »I'm guessing that some people are talking about total carbs, and others net carbs maybe?
Some say fiber should only be subtracted from fresh fruits, vegetables and nuts to tally the net. Not from processed foods such as yogurts (including frozen) or manufactured protein/keto bars.
This also more of a type 2 D issue. Processed net carbs seem to have a much higher than expected effect for some people. They end up with a BG reaction that is more linked to the total carbs, rather than the net. YMMV
Net carbs in general seem to be becoming more popular. Not as many seem to use total carbs now.
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I always thought Keto diet was a fad and also thought the high fat content could be bad in the long run. All of that changed when I happened across, by chance, a documentary "The Magic Pill". It totally fascinated me. There was a line where the author asked "Why is it that every animal on earth can regulate its body weight except man or any animal cared for by man?"
It sealed the deal and got me to change my diet. I was already eating somewhat this way so all I need to do was reduce or give up bread (was 26g daily) and stop eating fries or chips with lunch. I just started and down 8 pounds so far.
fat happens in other animals
i've seen fat wild rabbits and deer. a few hefty seagulls
and definitely domestic animals get fat. i've seen obese dogs and cats. i know people who've had to lock up food otherwise canines would eat all the foods they could get their paws on.
some of my dogs like broccoli some run and hide.
some like bread and popcorn, some spit them out.
one will sneak attack you for your twizzler, the other could care less.
we are not alone. but i think some of the question is availability
I think some of the wild animals we see getting heavy are eating human food.
The seagulls - I'd guess would be a pretty sure thing that they were eating our food. Most deer around me, unless you go into the mountains, are grain fed or eat the cow's hay. I've never seen a fat hare... I can barely imagine it.
I think you are right in that a good part of it is availability. I would guess there are hyperpalatable foods for animals too.4 -
I always thought Keto diet was a fad and also thought the high fat content could be bad in the long run. All of that changed when I happened across, by chance, a documentary "The Magic Pill". It totally fascinated me. There was a line where the author asked "Why is it that every animal on earth can regulate its body weight except man or any animal cared for by man?"
It sealed the deal and got me to change my diet. I was already eating somewhat this way so all I need to do was reduce or give up bread (was 26g daily) and stop eating fries or chips with lunch. I just started and down 8 pounds so far.
The fat ones die because they are too slow and get eaten by predators or fat predators are too slow and can't catch food until they haven't gotten food for so long they're a normal weight again.8 -
I always thought Keto diet was a fad and also thought the high fat content could be bad in the long run. All of that changed when I happened across, by chance, a documentary "The Magic Pill". It totally fascinated me. There was a line where the author asked "Why is it that every animal on earth can regulate its body weight except man or any animal cared for by man?"
It sealed the deal and got me to change my diet. I was already eating somewhat this way so all I need to do was reduce or give up bread (was 26g daily) and stop eating fries or chips with lunch. I just started and down 8 pounds so far.
Because documentaries don't cherry pick their own data and use quotes to make their point sound great. Funny that I am able to eat over 200g of carbs and still lose weight, I must be an alien.
Unless you have health issues in which your doctor restricts you from eating carbs, the rest of us mortal souls can lose weight with carbs. You're 8 lbs lost was water weight, depleted glycogen and most important of all....caloric deficit.7 -
I always thought Keto diet was a fad and also thought the high fat content could be bad in the long run. All of that changed when I happened across, by chance, a documentary "The Magic Pill". It totally fascinated me. There was a line where the author asked "Why is it that every animal on earth can regulate its body weight except man or any animal cared for by man?"
It sealed the deal and got me to change my diet. I was already eating somewhat this way so all I need to do was reduce or give up bread (was 26g daily) and stop eating fries or chips with lunch. I just started and down 8 pounds so far.
The Magic Pill isn't a "documentary" - it's a hack job propaganda piece done by a crackpot who has been widely censured by the medical authorities in his own country. Pete Evans isn't even a researcher, he's a celebrity chef.
https://synapses.co.za/the-magic-pill-pete-evans-does-documentary/
The Australian Medical Association has called for the mockumentary to be removed from circulation because they opine that "the risk of misinformation is too great": http://www.abc.net.au/news/health/2018-06-21/pete-evans-diet-doco-magic-pill-health-claims-evaluated/9891470
And funnily enough, Pete Evans doesn't even advocate for keto - he's a paleo diet advocate.15 -
"Why is it that every animal on earth can regulate its body weight except man or any animal cared for by man?"
The answer is simple. Wild animals can regulate their weight because they do not have the option of walking into a supermarket and having access to anything and everything they could want all at once. If they did, believe me, they would more often then not be fat.
With that, enjoy your bread...
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...There was a line where the author asked "Why is it that every animal on earth can regulate its body weight except man or any animal cared for by man?"...
An unsurprisingly dumb, shallow, uneducated question by Pete Evans, but I'll play anyway - here are a few reasons:
1) Because they eat by instinct, not by emotion. Entirely different brains/thought processes.
2) Because they have to hunt/forage their own food, not drive down the street to McDonalds. They can't call for pizza delivery when they're hungry, they have to get off their butts and go find/hunt something to eat.
3) Because they don't have restaurants, supermarkets, AYCE buffets, packaged calorie-dense treats, and other things which create an overabundance of food.
4) Because they don't live in a sedentary, obesogenic environment. They don't have remote controlled televisions, cars, video games, the internet, automated work environments, Netflix, etc.
5) Because domesticated animals cared for by humans are often in the same overabundant, obesogenic, sedentary (compared to wild animals) environments as their owners.17 -
Only domesticated animals become obese due to the humans feeding them. Pets suffer the same diseases as their owners because of table scraps, similar eating patterns, stuffing them to the gills with multi-cr@p. Diabetes, kidney failure and all of the rest of it, joint and back problems.....5
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I have tried Keto myself, it worked well. But I don't think there is agreement on long-term effect of keto diet. What I felt most important in my process of researching keto diet is "Eat Less Sugar". I think most people on this forum would say cutting out sugar and reduce simple carb is good.3
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Only domesticated animals become obese due to the humans feeding them. Pets suffer the same diseases as their owners because of table scraps, similar eating patterns, stuffing them to the gills with multi-cr@p. Diabetes, kidney failure and all of the rest of it, joint and back problems.....
ِAn animal will not eat if it doesn't want to eat. You can't stuff them to the gills with multi crap unless they want to. We adopted our dog from the same litter as a family friend's dog. Their dog is not really motivated by food. She would eat half of her food and leave the rest if she doesn't want to, and no amount of coaxing would get her to finish her meal. She may or may not come back for it later. Our dog LOVES food. He would eat his share then would want to finish off what his sister didn't. She's lean, and he's a bit chubby. If we didn't control his food intake he would be outright obese with that appetite.
There is no "animals don't get fat". When there is an abundance of food, some animals get fat and others don't, just like humans. If we had to hunt all day for our McDonald's meal, run away from predators, or compete over the last pizza, most of us wouldn't be fat either.11 -
skinnyjingbb wrote: »I have tried Keto myself, it worked well. But I don't think there is agreement on long-term effect of keto diet. What I felt most important in my process of researching keto diet is "Eat Less Sugar". I think most people on this forum would say cutting out sugar and reduce simple carb is good.
I wouldn't say that. I don't see what I would gain from cutting foods like blackberries, garbanzo beans, onions, tomatoes, and red cabbage from my diet (all foods with sugar). Same with simple carbohydrates -- I could cut them out, but why would I arbitrarily avoid things like sweet potatoes?10 -
skinnyjingbb wrote: »I have tried Keto myself, it worked well. But I don't think there is agreement on long-term effect of keto diet. What I felt most important in my process of researching keto diet is "Eat Less Sugar". I think most people on this forum would say cutting out sugar and reduce simple carb is good.
Not really, I would suggest for them to reduce their calories if they are not at a deficit and simply eat the foods that they enjoy as long as they meet their goals for protein, fiber, micronutrients and of course they need to make sure that they are at a caloric deficit. If they meet all these requirements, I couldn't care less if the rest of their diet is made up of foods with high sugar and/or simple carbs (unless they have health issues that requires them to avoid them). I hate the all or nothing mentality. People tend to forget that there can be an in between too.5 -
janejellyroll wrote: »skinnyjingbb wrote: »I have tried Keto myself, it worked well. But I don't think there is agreement on long-term effect of keto diet. What I felt most important in my process of researching keto diet is "Eat Less Sugar". I think most people on this forum would say cutting out sugar and reduce simple carb is good.
I wouldn't say that. I don't see what I would gain from cutting foods like blackberries, garbanzo beans, onions, tomatoes, and red cabbage from my diet (all foods with sugar). Same with simple carbohydrates -- I could cut them out, but why would I arbitrarily avoid things like sweet potatoes?
Sweet potatoes are complex carbs anyway, so you’re good.
That aside, “cutting out sugar and reduce simple carb” is an overly broad suggestion which completely ignores context and dosage within the diet.5 -
skinnyjingbb wrote: »I have tried Keto myself, it worked well. But I don't think there is agreement on long-term effect of keto diet. What I felt most important in my process of researching keto diet is "Eat Less Sugar". I think most people on this forum would say cutting out sugar and reduce simple carb is good.
Not really, I would suggest for them to reduce their calories if they are not at a deficit and simply eat the foods that they enjoy as long as they meet their protein, fiber, micronutrients and of course they need to make sure that they are at a caloric deficit. If they meet all these requirements, I couldn't care less if the rest of their diet is made up of foods with high sugar and/or simple carbs (unless they have health issues that requires them to avoid them). I hate the all or nothing mentality. People tend to forget that there can be an in between too.
I hate the you must eat all foodz in moderation or consign yourself to inevitable failure mentality. People tend to forget the elimination approach is a viable method for those it aligns with.
You missed my point clearly or I clearly missed yours.4 -
janejellyroll wrote: »skinnyjingbb wrote: »I have tried Keto myself, it worked well. But I don't think there is agreement on long-term effect of keto diet. What I felt most important in my process of researching keto diet is "Eat Less Sugar". I think most people on this forum would say cutting out sugar and reduce simple carb is good.
I wouldn't say that. I don't see what I would gain from cutting foods like blackberries, garbanzo beans, onions, tomatoes, and red cabbage from my diet (all foods with sugar). Same with simple carbohydrates -- I could cut them out, but why would I arbitrarily avoid things like sweet potatoes?
Sweet potatoes are complex carbs anyway, so you’re good.
That aside, “cutting out sugar and reduce simple carb” is an overly broad suggestion which completely ignores context and dosage within the diet.
I was under the impression that at least some of the carbohydrates in sweet potatoes were considered simple carbohydrates, just as some of the carbohydrates in whole grain bread are. Is that not accurate?3
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