Hyphenated-Americans
Replies
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I think in certain specific circumstances hyphenation or an equivalent may be required. If you want to say your parents are from Mexico for example, Mexican-American is a fairly reasonable way to do that.
However as a general principle I find it a little weird. It seems so exclusionary. If you want to end discrimination, labeling citizens by racial group and reminding people of the label every few sentences seems like an odd decision.
I realize that's a bit of a schism. Some people want to proudly display their heritage or whatever. In the past everyone being assimilated into a homogenous whole was seen as the ultimate goal more commonly.
I don't think you need to be absolutist. People can have their traditions. But I'm really not sure the whole paradigm where we talk about what 'Latino Voters' think and so-forth is remotely healthy. It's a very stereotypical view, quite cynical, and rather "Us and them"
Side note. People would laugh at me if I went around insisting that I be referred to as an English-American. I have no idea if this means anything...
easy for an american/englishman to say
very easy when you're always the us. us vs them has been important since forever. there have always been divisions; there have always been differences in power, competition. where power differences are, or become by practice, easily marked (eg by skin colour) & where they are systemic, the 'vs' becomes more sharply defined, from within and without. 0 -
Good afternoon everyone,
I'm in school. Currently taking a composition class. Our class project is to write a research paper. I would love to get the opinions of as many of you as I can. Here is the topic:
Mixed racial and cultural groups are growing in the United States. Should each group expect to be treated as a separate entity, or should residents of the United States be considered Americans without the hyphen?
I'm American. The politically correct term for me would be "African-American". However, personally, I have never done my ancestry on my father's side to know exactly if we are "Black" or of "African" descent. But I do know that my mother is White and Cherokee. Thus, leading me to review my thoughts on this and say so, I'm White-Cherokee-African-American? That seems a bit much for my tastes.
I don't identify with either side of my heritage more than the other. I have a friend who, before we were friends and had only spoken on the phone, said she was really shocked when she saw me for the first time. She said by the way I speak, "proper", she would have never guessed I was "Black". And our on-going joke is "Really? I don't know what gave you the impression that I'm Black. I think it's my lovely tan."
Anyway, my first question is American the only hyphenated country? Do the British say "African-British" or "Indian-British" or the Africans say "American-African" or "British-African"? You follow me on this?
Secondly, what is your take? If you wish you can inbox me or post it here. Please tell me the country you are in and/or your nationality if you wish to share it.
Thanks for your input. Have a healthy day!
Namaste,
Nika
I'm from the US, born in southeastern US to be more specific. I have a question about the distinction you make between Black and African. There are, of course, various opinions but years ago a woman from Ghana told me that she preferred the term Black instead of African-American because she felt it was more inclusive of Blacks from other parts of the world. I don't think she was a US citizen at the time. I understand that preference of a immigrant.
However, I generally use those two terms, Black and African-American, interchangeably to refer to myself. I choose not to refer to myself as only American because, for me, that ignores all that my Black ancestors endured in this country. I have researched my family tree and I'm pretty sure I've identified some of my white or European ancestors. Most Black people in this country who haven't immigrated from elsewhere have European ancestry but given the history of this country its been pretty pointless to make a big deal about that European Ancestry.
For me, the term African-American gives value to ancestry and culture that has historically been devalued in the US. Just my opinion on the matter.0 -
Well, my family on my mom's side was here in the 1500's and my family on my dad's side was here in the 1600's so I guess I'm a pre-American of European origin? I mean, how far back are we going here? Science would suggest we're all probably Africans. I'm an Earthling for sure, though.
ETA: I never really answered OP's question - I believe that people should identify as they see fit. For example, if someone wants to call themselves an American, an Asian-American, a Cambodian-American or just plain Cambodian, it's fine by me. It's really not my business if someone else feels a special connection to their ancestral people. You can celebrate your ancestral culture AND be a proud American at the same time. I DO, however, think that wherever you live, if you're there of your own free will, you are a part of the community and you should respect and celebrate that culture as well as your ancestral one.0 -
I ride the fence on this which is funny because prior to reading this post I wouldn't have thought that I would have such a personal response to it.
Stats:
Born in the United States of America; American citizen
Mother & maternal grandparents all born in the US; American citizens
Father born in the US; American citizen
Everyone else going back generations were born outside the US
How do I identify:
Primarily & initially American (and proud!)
When asked my Ethnicity/Nationality I would however state French and Hungarian vs. American and I didn't really realize I was doing that... I am American, I was born and raised here and haven't ever even been to France or Hungary. I learned English (American English) as my first language and it is the primary language used in my household. I am fairly fluent in French and know some basic Hungarian. However, these cultures were and are a huge part of my upbringing.
So I am certainly American, French and Hungarian and no I wouldn't ever hyphenate them as a declaration of my ethnicity, but I guess I've always felt like when people ask they mean "besides American" but maybe that's just my take. Strange... I do think people that have strong cultural ties to their ancestral background should hyphenate as they see fit. My takeaway from this is that going forward my answer will be "I'm American" and possibly follow up with "of French and Hungarian descent"
Great post OP. ????????????0 -
I am mostly Irish but I have never once called myself an Irish American. The language is divisive and don't we have enough issues without sticking ourselves in tiny race boxes. The only place race belongs as a question is on medical forms (certain heritages come with increase risk to different diseases).0
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I consider myself German-American. I was born in Germany and now live in America. I have never heard of anyone else hyphenating, really.0
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Once the powers that be decide I'm a normal American and don't need to be hyphenated.0
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I do not understand the whole blah-blah-blah-American.
Seriously, it is stupid.
I am British.
My parents where Irish/Bohemian and French-Jewish/Austrian
Which would make me Irish-Bohemian-French-Jewish-Austrian-British, although as I was born on a .mil base on the Island of Crete, perhaps I should add Greek in there too ?
Hi, I'm Em, I am Irish-Bohemian-French-Jewish-Austrian-Greek-British.
My passport says British, I am British. I am British.
My BFF is American, but her parents are Japanese and Jamaican. Her great-great-grandfather was an American slave owner too, so I guess she is 1/16th or 1/32nd white ?
She refers to herself as 'American' as she was born her. Her facial features are kind of Japanese - she looks very much like her mother, but she has golden skin and a decent 'fro'. She really is rather stunning looking. Smart too....
The more of a melting pot we become, the less the divisions and the colors of our skin will make any sense.
Referring to someone as 'African American' is exactly the same as pointing out that there skin is not white. I see it as racist and unnecessary..
That it why it was introduced, to classify people. The US used systematic labeling to help ease integration. Once a upon a time, the Irish weren't welcomed in the US and discriminated against but their children were able to escape that discrimination through the act of simply changing their last name. Black people or African-Americans aren't as fortunate.0 -
Yeah, I don't really get it. I am likely some kind of Caucasion/Native American mix, with whatever else thrown in. I was adopted as an infant and my folks were also mixes of various European things and some Cherokee thrown in for a conversation point. lol Plus more of some whatever.
I don't really know, don't really care, and certainly don't care to hyphenate anything. I do understand that some people are more interested in various aspects of their heritage and I certainly don't begrudge them that.
Ultimately, I guess I feel that each of us has our own personal history that trumps all that other stuff and is usually more than enough for most to deal with. And I think there is enough divisiveness without adding more categories to the list.
Oh, and I am in WA State currently and have always lived in the Western or Northwestern region of the US (California, Washington, Idaho, Colorado).0 -
I'm Canadian. We hardly ever hyphenate because nobody gives a .... spit. You can be Black/Asian/White/First Nations and it doesn't make you any less Canadian.
And since Canada is a relatively new country it is pretty much assumed that (almost) everyone came here from somewhere else along the way. So when my S-I-L refers to her family as Italian or when I attend a Chinese or Indian wedding I look at it as a celebration of cultural traditions rather than a repudiation of someone's Canadian citizenship.
(And the country of Canada is younger than the Emancipation Proclamation to the South so we don't have that history of slavery and oppression so being black up here isn't really a big deal either.)
Also, more and more, people are hardly ever "pure" anything. Lots of mixed race relationships and children creating an even richer and more diverse mix of Canadians. My kids don't even notice ethnicity as a differentiating factor. If I were to ask them about the ethnic background of one of their friends they would give me a "huh?" because to them the question is stupid. It just doesn't register as interesting in their minds.
Like I said, up here no one gives a......you know.0 -
If we continue to segregate ourselves with hyphens, how can we ever say we are one?0
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Where are you a citizen? That's what you are!
I'm not against being proud or educated about your ancestry but the hyphens seem a bit ridiculous to me.
And not all "blacks" are African-American. And some "white" people are! But labels on people tend to make me a little crazy in general...0 -
Some people in the UK would define themselves as British Asian (generally of South Asian origin, not the Far East) but it's not really a "thing" for British people of other ethnicities. We don't really do the ethnic hyphenating thing you guys do in the US. People just tend to be British, and don't specifiy if they have ancestry from say Italy, or Germany. I've always found it strange to hear Americans say things like "I'm Irish" or "I'm Italian", when referring to their ancestry. To me, "I'm Italian" means that you come from Italy. I can understand why, looking at the different histories of the US and UK, but it's just always sounded weird to me.Anyway, my first question is American the only hyphenated country? Do the British say "African-British" or "Indian-British" or the Africans say "American-African" or "British-African"? You follow me on this?
Namaste,
Nika
The English-Scottish-Irish-Welsh vs British thing is a whole other issue and to do with national identity rather than ethinicity. It varies widely, but in my experience, English people are a little more likely to identify as "British" whereas people from Scotland etc are more likely to identify as "Scottish" etc.
That's a really accurate summary for the UK, so no need for me to repeat, just to say that's pretty much what I was going to say about the UK... :drinker:
As a German with Polish-French heritage who now lives in the UK, I tend to refer to myself as German in the UK (although I've been in the UK longer than I lived in Germany, as I left when I was 18).
Sometimes I use the term European cos I'm such a mix. :laugh:0 -
I think, hyphenate if it matters.
People hyphenate ethnicities when they're new to a place (between 1 & 3 generations, usually). Or, if their ethnicity has an important place in the larger culture -- because of contributions to the larger culture, discrimination (often both at the same time). Or, if they live in a place where there are a lot of ethnicities (usually, hyphenation is only even a possibility because that is true). Hyphenating always marks you off from the dominant culture.
You stop hyphenating when the part that's marked off really doesn't matter any more, when your life is not affected by being in that category. LIke, being Gerrman-Scottish-American vs American. Makes no difference, doesn't matter.
In the US, the "African" part of "African-American" usually matters, a lot.
But, if it doesn't matter to you, go with American, if that's where your heart & mind are.
Exactly this - I'm Indian-American and hyphenate because it does matter. I was born in India, have a lot of family there, speak the language, eat the food, listen to the music etc, I was raised in the culture, so it is a HUGE part of my life. On the other hand, I use the "American" part because I am am a very proud and patriotic American who came here when I was 3, so this country is my life and home and I consider myself very American, with Indian heritage. So saying "Indian-American" exemplifies that perfectly.The whole notion of 5th and 6th generation Americans insisting on being called xxxx-Americans is really silly and needs to stop. I agree with the comment from the person who said "American of Irish descent" or whatever, if someone is THAT determined to learn your family tree
Exactly! If I maybe had one ancestor who came from German 6 generations ago I wouldn't be calling myself German-American as that heritage has nothing to do with my day to day life.0 -
Where are you a citizen? That's what you are!
I disagree. I'm a British citizen, but I'm not "British".0 -
In the UK we have black and white. It takes less time to say. It's all fairly self-explanatory. The only real practical difference in terms of ethnic labelling is that here the term 'Asian' is exclusively used to refer to people from the Indian sub-continent, rather than those from the Orient as the US uses it. We call Chinese and Japanese people, rather unimaginatively, Chinese and Japanese people.0
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I really dislike the term American for several reasons, the first being that the continent is North America. I understand that it's compiled of Canada, The United States of America and Mexico but it seems simple-minded to have even started calling citizens of the United States, Americans in the first place. Technically, anyone from Canada or Mexico are also Americans because they do indeed live in North America. I suppose you could apply that to South America as well.
While this is true, I highly doubt we will be called United Statians (it's been brought up a couple of centuries ago... by Ben Franklin I believe) anytime in the near future and everyone knows that when you say "American" you mean a person from the United States of America. If you mean someone from either American continents you can always apply the geographical reference to it... as in "North American" or "South American".0 -
I really dislike the term American for several reasons, the first being that the continent is North America. I understand that it's compiled of Canada, The United States of America and Mexico but it seems simple-minded to have even started calling citizens of the United States, Americans in the first place. Technically, anyone from Canada or Mexico are also Americans because they do indeed live in North America. I suppose you could apply that to South America as well.
It's just easy. There's no other practical name to give them that wouldn't be a nightmare to say. People understand it. Much like people will assume if you say South African you mean someone from South Africa rather than anyone from somewhere in southern Africa.
If it's that much of an issue just call them Dirty Yanks, it's one less syllable anyway
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My kids are white and Asian. I refer to them as Amerasian 0
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<<< Indo-Trinidadian.
This has proved to be a bit of an odd thing for me as I grew up struggling with my racial identity, also I only learned of the term within the last 2 years. ETA: I thought everyone from Trinidad was of the same mix as I but that's not the case. Post Colonialism is weird that way.
I was born in Trinidad & Tobago and arrived here in the US when I was about 3 yrs old. I grew up with many racial 'descriptions' as were the times in the late 60's.
Among family, Douglah and Coolie being the most prominent. My father is of Italian & Chinese decent & my mother Indian. Winter time when my skin was fair, it was common to hear aunties & uncles describe me as Coolie because of my complexion. Playing outside in the summertime would change my description to Douglah because my hair is straight but skin very dark.
Among people who were not family, the descriptions were not so kind, but whatever. I was a child of the 60's, soooo, it is what it was.:ohwell:
It's complicated. Sorta. :ohwell: I think the hyphenated terms are meant to be descriptive and give people back an identity that they wouldn't ordinarily have due to having a foot in both worlds (or more as the case may be).0 -
ok, well i don't think hyphenating is stupid.
if your white, your prob not getting discriminated against very much, and in the eyes of almost everyone, which part of europe your from doesn't matter.
but america is very racist, race matters. your race and heritage is a huge part of your identity. i think it's very understandable that many visible minorities would want to hyphenate.
Completely agree.0 -
ok, well i don't think hyphenating is stupid.
if your white, your prob not getting discriminated against very much, and in the eyes of almost everyone, which part of europe your from doesn't matter.
but america is very racist, race matters. your race and heritage is a huge part of your identity. i think it's very understandable that many visible minorities would want to hyphenate.
And presumably labelling people of Caribbean descent who can go back many generations of ancestors who've never been anywhere near Africa as "African-Americans" because they're black and consequently might be African so we'll just make that assumption is a valid solution against racism?0 -
I'm American. We're all mutts. Loveable, loyal, beautiful mutts.0
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I consider myself American. And I don't do the hyphenation thing.0
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I'm American. We're all mutts. Loveable, loyal, beautiful mutts.
I've seen this sentiment a few times in this thread - while white Americans may be all mutts, other Americans aren't, hence the hyphenation necessity for some.0 -
ok, well i don't think hyphenating is stupid.
if your white, your prob not getting discriminated against very much, and in the eyes of almost everyone, which part of europe your from doesn't matter.
but america is very racist, race matters. your race and heritage is a huge part of your identity. i think it's very understandable that many visible minorities would want to hyphenate.
And presumably labelling people of Caribbean descent who can go back many generations of ancestors who've never been anywhere near Africa as "African-Americans" because they're black and consequently might be African so we'll just make that assumption is a valid solution against racism?
Wait..what?...totally serious here, can you elaborate your point? I think I see what you're getting at but not sure if I've EVER heard another person make this distinction.0 -
I'm British, or English, or Yorkshire, or Leeds, or European, or White, or Caucasian, or whatever else you care to use. I have no particular sense of national pride so I'm largely indifferent. Legally, I'm a citizen of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Other people can identify themselves in whatever way makes them comfortable. I don't really care. They're all just people to me. I can drive an hour north to Newcastle and find a completely different language and culture. I can drive an hour west to Liverpool and find another completely different language and culture. So I'm not really sure that being English or British is of relevance. It's not an identifying factor to me, in much the same way that, although they may both officially be 'American', I find it hard to think of a compelling reason to throw people from Georgia in the same category as the people from LA. That they both wave the same national flag is pretty much the only similarity.0
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Such as....I'm American. We're all mutts. Loveable, loyal, beautiful mutts.
I've seen this sentiment a few times in this thread - while white Americans may be all mutts, other Americans aren't, hence the hyphenation necessity for some.0 -
White is a color. American is a nationality. These are two different things.I'm American. We're all mutts. Loveable, loyal, beautiful mutts.
I've seen this sentiment a few times in this thread - while white Americans may be all mutts, other Americans aren't, hence the hyphenation necessity for some.0 -
I'm American. We're all mutts. Loveable, loyal, beautiful mutts.
I've seen this sentiment a few times in this thread - while white Americans may be all mutts, other Americans aren't, hence the hyphenation necessity for some.
Not really. You can be proud of your heritage and not have to separate yourself by a hyphenated distinction.0
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