Hyphenated-Americans
Replies
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if someone wants to self hyphenate thats fine but it shouldnt be an institutional thing. we are all Americans. this is a melting pot. we shouldn't be trying to isolate ourselves.
hopefully this wont even be an issue in the future. we will all either be a nice natural light brown color and we'll also have the ability to change our skin color at will through genetic manipulation.0 -
ok, well i don't think hyphenating is stupid.
if your white, your prob not getting discriminated against very much, and in the eyes of almost everyone, which part of europe your from doesn't matter.
but america is very racist, race matters. your race and heritage is a huge part of your identity. i think it's very understandable that many visible minorities would want to hyphenate.
And presumably labelling people of Caribbean descent who can go back many generations of ancestors who've never been anywhere near Africa as "African-Americans" because they're black and consequently might be African so we'll just make that assumption is a valid solution against racism?
Wait..what?...totally serious here, can you elaborate your point? I think I see what you're getting at but not sure if I've EVER heard another person make this distinction.
My point is that, from my experience there (which granted isn't extensive, but I've certainly witnessed it), there are people in the US who, if they see a black person, will refer to them as African-American. This is with no evidence at all that they have any recent roots in Africa. There are black people native to Caribbean nations, nothern South American nations, Pacific Island nations, anywhere vaguely equatorial. Why is the assumption made that they're of recent African descent?
It happens here, but since Asian (to mean Indian subcontinent, not far east) is the only geographic-specific group to get its own name, that's the only one it's noticeable with. I've heard people from northern Africa (Egypt, Algeria, Morocco etc), Arab nations and Turkey referred to as 'Asian' because people see a skin tone and jump to an assumption.0 -
I'm American. We're all mutts. Loveable, loyal, beautiful mutts.
I've seen this sentiment a few times in this thread - while white Americans may be all mutts, other Americans aren't, hence the hyphenation necessity for some.
Such as...myself?0 -
I'm Dutch, Scotish, Irish, English, and French. When people ask me my background I tell them I'm a European mutt. The reaction is always entertaining.
Or I just tell them I'm Purebred Canadian... because that's what I really am.0 -
I'm American. We're all mutts. Loveable, loyal, beautiful mutts.
I've seen this sentiment a few times in this thread - while white Americans may be all mutts, other Americans aren't, hence the hyphenation necessity for some.
I am aware, that is why I specified *white Americans*0 -
I'm British, or English, or Yorkshire, or Leeds, or European, or White, or Caucasian, or whatever else you care to use. I have no particular sense of national pride so I'm largely indifferent. Legally, I'm a citizen of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Other people can identify themselves in whatever way makes them comfortable. I don't really care. They're all just people to me. I can drive an hour north to Newcastle and find a completely different language and culture. I can drive an hour west to Liverpool and find another completely different language and culture. So I'm not really sure that being English or British is of relevance. It's not an identifying factor to me, in much the same way that, although they may both officially be 'American', I find it hard to think of a compelling reason to throw people from Georgia in the same category as the people from LA. That they both wave the same national flag is pretty much the only similarity.
If I understand you correctly, I would say this is a point of view specific to you...not a bad thing I might add. What strikes me is that most folks are just not that in tune with the subtleties of cultural differences.
True story....on my wedding day, at the reception hall, waiting to be introduced for the first time as husband & wife, my new father in law (Hungarian Jew from Brooklyn) turns to me and asked 'who are all those black people?'....I wanted to know too because at 26, I could'nt imagine who would crash MY wedding...when I looked through the curtain to see who he was referring to, my husband and I just fell out.
Me: that's my Uncle Jerry, that's my auntie, that's my cousin, she came up from St. Croix just for the wedding, that's my other cousin, etc.
My parents who were right behind us couldn't stop laughing either. It's true that many of us are dark skinned & many are also fair with a bajillion shades in between, but that's all we thought we were. Here in America, color matters more than one would like to comfortably think.0 -
I'm American. We're all mutts. Loveable, loyal, beautiful mutts.
I've seen this sentiment a few times in this thread - while white Americans may be all mutts, other Americans aren't, hence the hyphenation necessity for some.
Not really. You can be proud of your heritage and not have to separate yourself by a hyphenated distinction.
See my post above, I am proud of my heritage and want the hyphenation. If others choose not to, thats fine too. The point is we are not all mutts.0 -
Here in America, color matters more than one would like to comfortably think.
True stuff. Sad but true.0 -
I've always been interested in this too...
I'm not any kind of hyphenation, since both sides of my family have been in America for hundreds of years, with the exception of my paternal great-great-grandfather who came from Germany almost 150 years ago.
An interesting corollary to this is that my mother (who was born in the South and whose ancestors on both sides have been there since Noah :laugh:) pointed out to me once that even though I was born in the North, I am "3/4 Southern" since she was all Southern and my father's father was too.
I don't think she meant that in a hyphenated- or even altogether serious way...it's just that people from the South are serious about ancestry. No one ever gets all proud about being from Ohio, like I am. :laugh:
I am very proud of my lineage but have felt a little envious of my friends whose families are bilingual. Aside from the German part, the rest of my family came from England, Scotland and Ireland so not much of a language issue there.0 -
Half Italian, 2 generations from Sicily. The other half? English/Irish/German/French...roots going back to 17th century France.
How absurd would a hyphenation of all that be? It's interesting and fun to acknowledge the past through your heritage, but thinking of yourself as a "hyphen" going forward seems counter productive to me.0 -
ok, well i don't think hyphenating is stupid.
if your white, your prob not getting discriminated against very much, and in the eyes of almost everyone, which part of europe your from doesn't matter.
but america is very racist, race matters. your race and heritage is a huge part of your identity. i think it's very understandable that many visible minorities would want to hyphenate.
And presumably labelling people of Caribbean descent who can go back many generations of ancestors who've never been anywhere near Africa as "African-Americans" because they're black and consequently might be African so we'll just make that assumption is a valid solution against racism?
Wait..what?...totally serious here, can you elaborate your point? I think I see what you're getting at but not sure if I've EVER heard another person make this distinction.
My point is that, from my experience there (which granted isn't extensive, but I've certainly witnessed it), there are people in the US who, if they see a black person, will refer to them as African-American. This is with no evidence at all that they have any recent roots in Africa. There are black people native to Caribbean nations, nothern South American nations, Pacific Island nations, anywhere vaguely equatorial. Why is the assumption made that they're of recent African descent?
It happens here, but since Asian (to mean Indian subcontinent, not far east) is the only geographic-specific group to get its own name, that's the only one it's noticeable with. I've heard people from northern Africa (Egypt, Algeria, Morocco etc), Arab nations and Turkey referred to as 'Asian' because people see a skin tone and jump to an assumption.
Just as I thought :drinker: Very astute of you!...most folks just aren't able to make that distinction. I can honestly say I've *never* heard anyone say this before and I've gotten into quite a few racial discussions in my time :laugh:
It's a point that I'd decided was moot because no one ever actually seemed to get it. Here in NY, only since 9/11 have I heard the distinction between black people and brown people. I even had to have that discussion with my kids, which was weird to say the least.:ohwell:
ETA: ethnically 'brown' people vs actually brown complected people...still sounds odd. Shrug.0 -
Here in America, color matters more than one would like to comfortably think.
True stuff. Sad but true.
at least we are not as bad as Europe. have seen the open racism that exists in soccer? could you imagine if in the USA people threw bananas at black players? they would get beaten to a pulp.0 -
Here in America, color matters more than one would like to comfortably think.
True stuff. Sad but true.
at least we are not as bad as Europe. have seen the open racism that exists in soccer? could you imagine if in the USA people threw bananas at black players? they would get beaten to a pulp.
It's all sad imho.0 -
I'm British, or English, or Yorkshire, or Leeds, or European, or White, or Caucasian, or whatever else you care to use. I have no particular sense of national pride so I'm largely indifferent. Legally, I'm a citizen of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Other people can identify themselves in whatever way makes them comfortable. I don't really care. They're all just people to me. I can drive an hour north to Newcastle and find a completely different language and culture. I can drive an hour west to Liverpool and find another completely different language and culture. So I'm not really sure that being English or British is of relevance. It's not an identifying factor to me, in much the same way that, although they may both officially be 'American', I find it hard to think of a compelling reason to throw people from Georgia in the same category as the people from LA. That they both wave the same national flag is pretty much the only similarity.
do you feel the same in scotland, ireland, wales? france?0 -
I've always been interested in this too...
I'm not any kind of hyphenation, since both sides of my family have been in America for hundreds of years, with the exception of my paternal great-great-grandfather who came from Germany almost 150 years ago.
An interesting corollary to this is that my mother (who was born in the South and whose ancestors on both sides have been there since Noah :laugh:) pointed out to me once that even though I was born in the North, I am "3/4 Southern" since she was all Southern and my father's father was too.
I don't think she meant that in a hyphenated- or even altogether serious way...it's just that people from the South are serious about ancestry. No one ever gets all proud about being from Ohio, like I am. :laugh:
I am very proud of my lineage but have felt a little envious of my friends whose families are bilingual. Aside from the German part, the rest of my family came from England, Scotland and Ireland so not much of a language issue there.
It's funny you mention language Upon hearing I'm from Trinidad, the next question is usually what language do we speak at home :noway: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:0 -
once we have a one world government in the next few centuries we can drop all this nonsense and all be called Earthlings or Terrans.0
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It's funny you mention language Upon hearing I'm from Trinidad, the next question is usually what language do we speak :noway: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
French?0 -
once we have a one world government in the next few centuries we can drop all this nonsense and all be called Earthlings or Terrans.0
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Here in America, color matters more than one would like to comfortably think.
True stuff. Sad but true.
at least we are not as bad as Europe. have seen the open racism that exists in soccer? could you imagine if in the USA people threw bananas at black players? they would get beaten to a pulp.
It varies a lot from country to country. Racism in football in the UK is pretty much non-existent now. Once or twice a season someone in the crowd is caught on camera doing a monkey gesture at a player. They always get a lifetime attendance ban. Italy, the former Yugoslav nations and Russia are a whole different thing though. I've been attending matches across the top three English divisions for 18 years and I've never witnessed racism at a match first hand.0 -
once we have a one world government in the next few centuries we can drop all this nonsense and all be called Earthlings or Terrans.
lets get to work. I call President!0 -
Edit: TMI to make a point in such a thread.0
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It's funny you mention language Upon hearing I'm from Trinidad, the next question is usually what language do we speak :noway: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
French?
Hahhhha!!!
Ohhh, YOU!!! :laugh:0 -
Here in America, color matters more than one would like to comfortably think.
True stuff. Sad but true.
at least we are not as bad as Europe. have seen the open racism that exists in soccer? could you imagine if in the USA people threw bananas at black players? they would get beaten to a pulp.
It varies a lot from country to country. Racism in football in the UK is pretty much non-existent now. Once or twice a season someone in the crowd is caught on camera doing a monkey gesture at a player. They always get a lifetime attendance ban. Italy, the former Yugoslav nations and Russia are a whole different thing though. I've been attending matches across the top three English divisions for 18 years and I've never witnessed racism at a match first hand.
fwiw i wasnt envisioning england when i said that..i was thinking the countries you mentioned along with Spain etc....0 -
once we have a one world government in the next few centuries we can drop all this nonsense and all be called Earthlings or Terrans.
I saw Terrans and thought "Zerg"0 -
I'm British, or English, or Yorkshire, or Leeds, or European, or White, or Caucasian, or whatever else you care to use. I have no particular sense of national pride so I'm largely indifferent. Legally, I'm a citizen of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Other people can identify themselves in whatever way makes them comfortable. I don't really care. They're all just people to me. I can drive an hour north to Newcastle and find a completely different language and culture. I can drive an hour west to Liverpool and find another completely different language and culture. So I'm not really sure that being English or British is of relevance. It's not an identifying factor to me, in much the same way that, although they may both officially be 'American', I find it hard to think of a compelling reason to throw people from Georgia in the same category as the people from LA. That they both wave the same national flag is pretty much the only similarity.
do you feel the same in scotland, ireland, wales? france?
Yes. I am the same person irrespective of where I am. I feel more in my natural habitat in many parts of the US or Canada than in many parts of England. The only time I feel uncomfortable because of where I'm from is when there's a language barrier, which is a completely unconnected issue.0 -
I'm American. We're all mutts. Loveable, loyal, beautiful mutts.
I've seen this sentiment a few times in this thread - while white Americans may be all mutts, other Americans aren't, hence the hyphenation necessity for some.
I am aware, that is why I specified *white Americans*0 -
I am Ginger-American . . . we are a dying breed and I'd like my own official sub group, thank you.0
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I served this country. I'm an American Citizen. I was born in FL. But when people ask me what I am, I don't even say I'm a Costa Rican-American. I just say I'm Costa Rican.
I identify more with my heritage than the soil I was raised on. I attribute that to strong family ties.0 -
On census forms (and other forms that ask ethnicity), I mark out "race" and write in "human"
I mean, I'm a "white"American, but being a white American in middle America gives me no actual "ethnic identity."
I'm not a Scottish-German-American.
My daughters are not Scottish-German-French and Scottish-German-Italian-Japanese Americans.
In fact, in my kid's school, the number of kids with identifiable ethnicities are in the minority. There are very few clearly black, white, Asian kids. Most of the kids are a rainbow of medium brown. They are the future of America. Are they Rainbow-Americans?
A few generations down the line, and all Americans will have the same lack of ethnic identity that we "white"-Americans have, which is to say, very little.0 -
once we have a one world government in the next few centuries we can drop all this nonsense and all be called Earthlings or Terrans.
lets get to work. I call President!0
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