do i go vegan?
Replies
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WinoGelato wrote: »You miss cheese because they line it with a chemical that's addicting. You won't miss it after awhile. Trust me.
It can seem like a vegan lifestyle is really restricting at first, but it's really not. It's new. It's drastically different. It can take awhile of experimenting before you find foods that you like. I'm always pro vegan. There isn't a need for us to eat meat or animal products. Especially dairy. There isn't anything healthy about putting another mammals hormones into your body that was made for baby calves. That's why some people see an improvement in their acne when they stop eating dairy - it's their hormones balancing out.
It's really easy to harm yourself with veganism if you don't know what you're doing. It's important for the diet to be varied. I would encourage you to experiment with the foods that you don't like and to see if there's a way to make them more appealing.
I don't want to make this comment too long. If you have any questions then feel free to ask me
Please stop spreading misinformation on the boards...
What chemical is cheese lined with? All cheese? Velveeta? Gouda? Stilton? How is it addicting?
This is usually what people are referring to when they say cheese is addictive (although I've never heard it said that manufacturers "line" cheese with it before, that's a new phrasing): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casomorphin
Note that there is not any evidence showing that casomorphins have an impact on humans. It is purely speculative.4 -
janejellyroll wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »You miss cheese because they line it with a chemical that's addicting. You won't miss it after awhile. Trust me.
It can seem like a vegan lifestyle is really restricting at first, but it's really not. It's new. It's drastically different. It can take awhile of experimenting before you find foods that you like. I'm always pro vegan. There isn't a need for us to eat meat or animal products. Especially dairy. There isn't anything healthy about putting another mammals hormones into your body that was made for baby calves. That's why some people see an improvement in their acne when they stop eating dairy - it's their hormones balancing out.
It's really easy to harm yourself with veganism if you don't know what you're doing. It's important for the diet to be varied. I would encourage you to experiment with the foods that you don't like and to see if there's a way to make them more appealing.
I don't want to make this comment too long. If you have any questions then feel free to ask me
Please stop spreading misinformation on the boards...
What chemical is cheese lined with? All cheese? Velveeta? Gouda? Stilton? How is it addicting?
This is usually what people are referring to when they say cheese is addictive (although I've never heard it said that manufacturers "line" cheese with it before, that's a new phrasing): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casomorphin
Note that there is not any evidence showing that casomorphins have an impact on humans. It is purely speculative.
Interesting....0 -
I think being vegan is more about your beliefs. Are you committed to all aspects of it even though you do currently still eat meat? Like no honey, chicken broth, eggs, leather, feather pillows, changing your cosmetics to non-animal based or tested products, etc?0
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janejellyroll wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »You miss cheese because they line it with a chemical that's addicting. You won't miss it after awhile. Trust me.
It can seem like a vegan lifestyle is really restricting at first, but it's really not. It's new. It's drastically different. It can take awhile of experimenting before you find foods that you like. I'm always pro vegan. There isn't a need for us to eat meat or animal products. Especially dairy. There isn't anything healthy about putting another mammals hormones into your body that was made for baby calves. That's why some people see an improvement in their acne when they stop eating dairy - it's their hormones balancing out.
It's really easy to harm yourself with veganism if you don't know what you're doing. It's important for the diet to be varied. I would encourage you to experiment with the foods that you don't like and to see if there's a way to make them more appealing.
I don't want to make this comment too long. If you have any questions then feel free to ask me
Please stop spreading misinformation on the boards...
What chemical is cheese lined with? All cheese? Velveeta? Gouda? Stilton? How is it addicting?
This is usually what people are referring to when they say cheese is addictive (although I've never heard it said that manufacturers "line" cheese with it before, that's a new phrasing): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casomorphin
Note that there is not any evidence showing that casomorphins have an impact on humans. It is purely speculative.
So what we're witnessing here is the birth of woo?5 -
janejellyroll wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »You miss cheese because they line it with a chemical that's addicting. You won't miss it after awhile. Trust me.
It can seem like a vegan lifestyle is really restricting at first, but it's really not. It's new. It's drastically different. It can take awhile of experimenting before you find foods that you like. I'm always pro vegan. There isn't a need for us to eat meat or animal products. Especially dairy. There isn't anything healthy about putting another mammals hormones into your body that was made for baby calves. That's why some people see an improvement in their acne when they stop eating dairy - it's their hormones balancing out.
It's really easy to harm yourself with veganism if you don't know what you're doing. It's important for the diet to be varied. I would encourage you to experiment with the foods that you don't like and to see if there's a way to make them more appealing.
I don't want to make this comment too long. If you have any questions then feel free to ask me
Please stop spreading misinformation on the boards...
What chemical is cheese lined with? All cheese? Velveeta? Gouda? Stilton? How is it addicting?
This is usually what people are referring to when they say cheese is addictive (although I've never heard it said that manufacturers "line" cheese with it before, that's a new phrasing): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casomorphin
Note that there is not any evidence showing that casomorphins have an impact on humans. It is purely speculative.
So what we're witnessing here is the birth of woo?
Judging by when I first heard about it, this woo is at least ready to start kindergarten. It's been rattling around the vegan community for a few years now. It's usually used as an attempt to get people to quit cheese by making them think they're consuming the equivalent of prescription opiates.
I think most of us who have had cheese and heavy-duty painkillers can understand that there is a meaningful distinction between the two. I mean, cheese is delicious but I haven't had any for over a decade and I don't really miss it. Opiates, on the other hand, destroy lives. I try to be understanding, but as someone whose family has been impacted by opiate addiction, this sort of thing sets my teeth on edge.12 -
Hey, cheese is made with rennet and rennet comes from the stomach lining of unweaned baby animals. It is that desire for milk in unweaned animals that comes through the cheese making humans addicted.
(j/k of course)
So if we want a stronger fix we should eat the unweaned baby animal and skip the cheese?
Well, veal and lamb are both yummy.3 -
If you're questioning it, then I'd hold off. It's a whole lifestyle and takes a lot of passion and commitment to live it out. There really aren't any inherent health benefits over other types of eating.4
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janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »You miss cheese because they line it with a chemical that's addicting. You won't miss it after awhile. Trust me.
It can seem like a vegan lifestyle is really restricting at first, but it's really not. It's new. It's drastically different. It can take awhile of experimenting before you find foods that you like. I'm always pro vegan. There isn't a need for us to eat meat or animal products. Especially dairy. There isn't anything healthy about putting another mammals hormones into your body that was made for baby calves. That's why some people see an improvement in their acne when they stop eating dairy - it's their hormones balancing out.
It's really easy to harm yourself with veganism if you don't know what you're doing. It's important for the diet to be varied. I would encourage you to experiment with the foods that you don't like and to see if there's a way to make them more appealing.
I don't want to make this comment too long. If you have any questions then feel free to ask me
Please stop spreading misinformation on the boards...
What chemical is cheese lined with? All cheese? Velveeta? Gouda? Stilton? How is it addicting?
This is usually what people are referring to when they say cheese is addictive (although I've never heard it said that manufacturers "line" cheese with it before, that's a new phrasing): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casomorphin
Note that there is not any evidence showing that casomorphins have an impact on humans. It is purely speculative.
So what we're witnessing here is the birth of woo?
Judging by when I first heard about it, this woo is at least ready to start kindergarten. It's been rattling around the vegan community for a few years now. It's usually used as an attempt to get people to quit cheese by making them think they're consuming the equivalent of prescription opiates.
I think most of us who have had cheese and heavy-duty painkillers can understand that there is a meaningful distinction between the two. I mean, cheese is delicious but I haven't had any for over a decade and I don't really miss it. Opiates, on the other hand, destroy lives. I try to be understanding, but as someone whose family has been impacted by opiate addiction, this sort of thing sets my teeth on edge.
I rarely go a day without cheese but if I do, I don't crave it. Heck, I live in Wisconsin where some of the best cheese is made so it is always easy to get and if it were addicting a large portion of the state would be having problems. We tend to keep the good stuff in-state and any grocery will have great locally produced cheese.1 -
janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »You miss cheese because they line it with a chemical that's addicting. You won't miss it after awhile. Trust me.
It can seem like a vegan lifestyle is really restricting at first, but it's really not. It's new. It's drastically different. It can take awhile of experimenting before you find foods that you like. I'm always pro vegan. There isn't a need for us to eat meat or animal products. Especially dairy. There isn't anything healthy about putting another mammals hormones into your body that was made for baby calves. That's why some people see an improvement in their acne when they stop eating dairy - it's their hormones balancing out.
It's really easy to harm yourself with veganism if you don't know what you're doing. It's important for the diet to be varied. I would encourage you to experiment with the foods that you don't like and to see if there's a way to make them more appealing.
I don't want to make this comment too long. If you have any questions then feel free to ask me
Please stop spreading misinformation on the boards...
What chemical is cheese lined with? All cheese? Velveeta? Gouda? Stilton? How is it addicting?
This is usually what people are referring to when they say cheese is addictive (although I've never heard it said that manufacturers "line" cheese with it before, that's a new phrasing): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casomorphin
Note that there is not any evidence showing that casomorphins have an impact on humans. It is purely speculative.
So what we're witnessing here is the birth of woo?
Judging by when I first heard about it, this woo is at least ready to start kindergarten. It's been rattling around the vegan community for a few years now. It's usually used as an attempt to get people to quit cheese by making them think they're consuming the equivalent of prescription opiates.
I think most of us who have had cheese and heavy-duty painkillers can understand that there is a meaningful distinction between the two. I mean, cheese is delicious but I haven't had any for over a decade and I don't really miss it. Opiates, on the other hand, destroy lives. I try to be understanding, but as someone whose family has been impacted by opiate addiction, this sort of thing sets my teeth on edge.
I rarely go a day without cheese but if I do, I don't crave it. Heck, I live in Wisconsin where some of the best cheese is made so it is always easy to get and if it were addicting a large portion of the state would be having problems. We tend to keep the good stuff in-state and any grocery will have great locally produced cheese.
Yeah, I don't think we need an addiction-conspiracy theory to explain why people think delicious foods are delicious.3 -
janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »You miss cheese because they line it with a chemical that's addicting. You won't miss it after awhile. Trust me.
It can seem like a vegan lifestyle is really restricting at first, but it's really not. It's new. It's drastically different. It can take awhile of experimenting before you find foods that you like. I'm always pro vegan. There isn't a need for us to eat meat or animal products. Especially dairy. There isn't anything healthy about putting another mammals hormones into your body that was made for baby calves. That's why some people see an improvement in their acne when they stop eating dairy - it's their hormones balancing out.
It's really easy to harm yourself with veganism if you don't know what you're doing. It's important for the diet to be varied. I would encourage you to experiment with the foods that you don't like and to see if there's a way to make them more appealing.
I don't want to make this comment too long. If you have any questions then feel free to ask me
Please stop spreading misinformation on the boards...
What chemical is cheese lined with? All cheese? Velveeta? Gouda? Stilton? How is it addicting?
This is usually what people are referring to when they say cheese is addictive (although I've never heard it said that manufacturers "line" cheese with it before, that's a new phrasing): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casomorphin
Note that there is not any evidence showing that casomorphins have an impact on humans. It is purely speculative.
So what we're witnessing here is the birth of woo?
Judging by when I first heard about it, this woo is at least ready to start kindergarten. It's been rattling around the vegan community for a few years now. It's usually used as an attempt to get people to quit cheese by making them think they're consuming the equivalent of prescription opiates.
I think most of us who have had cheese and heavy-duty painkillers can understand that there is a meaningful distinction between the two. I mean, cheese is delicious but I haven't had any for over a decade and I don't really miss it. Opiates, on the other hand, destroy lives. I try to be understanding, but as someone whose family has been impacted by opiate addiction, this sort of thing sets my teeth on edge.
I rarely go a day without cheese but if I do, I don't crave it. Heck, I live in Wisconsin where some of the best cheese is made so it is always easy to get and if it were addicting a large portion of the state would be having problems. We tend to keep the good stuff in-state and any grocery will have great locally produced cheese.
Yeah, I don't think we need an addiction-conspiracy theory to explain why people think delicious foods are delicious.
I recently heard a sound bite style news report that "a new study shows" that casein "lights up" the same part of the brain that drugs do, ergo and heretofore making cheese addictive. Not sure why just cheese specifically, as opposed to all the dairy products that contain casein. I wondered if this was the end of sugar being the debil drug that food companies hooked us with and now it was cheese. I mean, when the pendulum swings, it swings like a son of a gun. Everyone duck!
OP, any diet can be healthy or unhealthy. You need to find a way to eat that makes it easy for you to stick to the right calorie level, makes you feel good and healthy, allows you to eat a varied diet, and doesn't cause you any ethical concerns. Only you know if that is veganism or not. Don't get too caught up in eating in a way that has a name though!6 -
Until you start posting valid sources, your claims are not valid. I’d like to know, what chemical?You miss cheese because they line it with a chemical that's addicting. You won't miss it after awhile. Trust me.
Do you consume DHMO?
Wait. What? And yet again, we need actual proof to these claims.There isn't a need for us to eat meat or animal products. Especially dairy. There isn't anything healthy about putting another mammals hormones into your body that was made for baby calves.
Huh? That doesn’t make any sense.That's why some people see an improvement in their acne when they stop eating dairy - it's their hormones balancing out.
Do you really believe this? Are you a medical professional? Please post reputable scientific proof.
5 -
janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »You miss cheese because they line it with a chemical that's addicting. You won't miss it after awhile. Trust me.
It can seem like a vegan lifestyle is really restricting at first, but it's really not. It's new. It's drastically different. It can take awhile of experimenting before you find foods that you like. I'm always pro vegan. There isn't a need for us to eat meat or animal products. Especially dairy. There isn't anything healthy about putting another mammals hormones into your body that was made for baby calves. That's why some people see an improvement in their acne when they stop eating dairy - it's their hormones balancing out.
It's really easy to harm yourself with veganism if you don't know what you're doing. It's important for the diet to be varied. I would encourage you to experiment with the foods that you don't like and to see if there's a way to make them more appealing.
I don't want to make this comment too long. If you have any questions then feel free to ask me
Please stop spreading misinformation on the boards...
What chemical is cheese lined with? All cheese? Velveeta? Gouda? Stilton? How is it addicting?
This is usually what people are referring to when they say cheese is addictive (although I've never heard it said that manufacturers "line" cheese with it before, that's a new phrasing): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casomorphin
Note that there is not any evidence showing that casomorphins have an impact on humans. It is purely speculative.
So what we're witnessing here is the birth of woo?
Judging by when I first heard about it, this woo is at least ready to start kindergarten. It's been rattling around the vegan community for a few years now. It's usually used as an attempt to get people to quit cheese by making them think they're consuming the equivalent of prescription opiates.
I think most of us who have had cheese and heavy-duty painkillers can understand that there is a meaningful distinction between the two. I mean, cheese is delicious but I haven't had any for over a decade and I don't really miss it. Opiates, on the other hand, destroy lives. I try to be understanding, but as someone whose family has been impacted by opiate addiction, this sort of thing sets my teeth on edge.
I rarely go a day without cheese but if I do, I don't crave it. Heck, I live in Wisconsin where some of the best cheese is made so it is always easy to get and if it were addicting a large portion of the state would be having problems. We tend to keep the good stuff in-state and any grocery will have great locally produced cheese.
Yeah, I don't think we need an addiction-conspiracy theory to explain why people think delicious foods are delicious.
I recently heard a sound bite style news report that "a new study shows" that casein "lights up" the same part of the brain that drugs do, ergo and heretofore making cheese addictive. Not sure why just cheese specifically, as opposed to all the dairy products that contain casein. I wondered if this was the end of sugar being the debil drug that food companies hooked us with and now it was cheese. I mean, when the pendulum swings, it swings like a son of a gun. Everyone duck!
OP, any diet can be healthy or unhealthy. You need to find a way to eat that makes it easy for you to stick to the right calorie level, makes you feel good and healthy, allows you to eat a varied diet, and doesn't cause you any ethical concerns. Only you know if that is veganism or not. Don't get too caught up in eating in a way that has a name though!
I have heard people say that the casein is "concentrated" when cheese is made, due to the fact that water content is strained off to isolate the cheese solids.
I have never made (dairy) cheese and I don't know much about it (other than watching one episode of Ina Garten where her husband went to a cheese factory), so I don't know if that is accurate. But that's the explanation given as to why cheese would be more addictive than, say, a glass of milk.1 -
I don't consider anything addictive unless there is a noticeable physical symptom of withdrawal. Craving a specific food more because there may or may not be some chemical release in the brain is not addiction it is normal physiology.9
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janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »You miss cheese because they line it with a chemical that's addicting. You won't miss it after awhile. Trust me.
It can seem like a vegan lifestyle is really restricting at first, but it's really not. It's new. It's drastically different. It can take awhile of experimenting before you find foods that you like. I'm always pro vegan. There isn't a need for us to eat meat or animal products. Especially dairy. There isn't anything healthy about putting another mammals hormones into your body that was made for baby calves. That's why some people see an improvement in their acne when they stop eating dairy - it's their hormones balancing out.
It's really easy to harm yourself with veganism if you don't know what you're doing. It's important for the diet to be varied. I would encourage you to experiment with the foods that you don't like and to see if there's a way to make them more appealing.
I don't want to make this comment too long. If you have any questions then feel free to ask me
Please stop spreading misinformation on the boards...
What chemical is cheese lined with? All cheese? Velveeta? Gouda? Stilton? How is it addicting?
This is usually what people are referring to when they say cheese is addictive (although I've never heard it said that manufacturers "line" cheese with it before, that's a new phrasing): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casomorphin
Note that there is not any evidence showing that casomorphins have an impact on humans. It is purely speculative.
So what we're witnessing here is the birth of woo?
Judging by when I first heard about it, this woo is at least ready to start kindergarten. It's been rattling around the vegan community for a few years now. It's usually used as an attempt to get people to quit cheese by making them think they're consuming the equivalent of prescription opiates.
I think most of us who have had cheese and heavy-duty painkillers can understand that there is a meaningful distinction between the two. I mean, cheese is delicious but I haven't had any for over a decade and I don't really miss it. Opiates, on the other hand, destroy lives. I try to be understanding, but as someone whose family has been impacted by opiate addiction, this sort of thing sets my teeth on edge.
I rarely go a day without cheese but if I do, I don't crave it. Heck, I live in Wisconsin where some of the best cheese is made so it is always easy to get and if it were addicting a large portion of the state would be having problems. We tend to keep the good stuff in-state and any grocery will have great locally produced cheese.
Yeah, I don't think we need an addiction-conspiracy theory to explain why people think delicious foods are delicious.
I recently heard a sound bite style news report that "a new study shows" that casein "lights up" the same part of the brain that drugs do, ergo and heretofore making cheese addictive. Not sure why just cheese specifically, as opposed to all the dairy products that contain casein. I wondered if this was the end of sugar being the debil drug that food companies hooked us with and now it was cheese. I mean, when the pendulum swings, it swings like a son of a gun. Everyone duck!
OP, any diet can be healthy or unhealthy. You need to find a way to eat that makes it easy for you to stick to the right calorie level, makes you feel good and healthy, allows you to eat a varied diet, and doesn't cause you any ethical concerns. Only you know if that is veganism or not. Don't get too caught up in eating in a way that has a name though!
I have heard people say that the casein is "concentrated" when cheese is made, due to the fact that water content is strained off to isolate the cheese solids.
I have never made (dairy) cheese and I don't know much about it (other than watching one episode of Ina Garten where her husband went to a cheese factory), so I don't know if that is accurate. But that's the explanation given as to why cheese would be more addictive than, say, a glass of milk.
Y'know, I think if a particular approach to eating is really a good thing, the true facts about it ought to be enough of a persuader.
I guess I see how confirmation bias can suck proponents into believing positive-skew nonsense, then arguing that "my way is the only way to lose weight, cures cancer, helps you run 3 minute miles and break powerlifting records, and makes you poop only gentle rainbow sparkles", but when they try using inaccurate information to sell their way to others, in many cases it will backfire. Moreover, sensible people, even those who share their eating choices, will less respect their intellect.
Veganism is a reasonable, potentially healthy, generally ethically well thought out way of living. Eating like a vegan (without fully embracing complete vegan living) is also reasonable, etc. I support those who choose either with clear eyes, and who tell others about how well it works for them and why (as opposed to bludgeoning people about how superior their way is for everyone).
But "healthier for all" "cures/avoids cancer" "cures/avoids heart disease" or "addictive cheese" "bee vomit" "pus in milk" representations . . . nah. May persuade impressionable people who can't science, but still, nah.9 -
janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »You miss cheese because they line it with a chemical that's addicting. You won't miss it after awhile. Trust me.
It can seem like a vegan lifestyle is really restricting at first, but it's really not. It's new. It's drastically different. It can take awhile of experimenting before you find foods that you like. I'm always pro vegan. There isn't a need for us to eat meat or animal products. Especially dairy. There isn't anything healthy about putting another mammals hormones into your body that was made for baby calves. That's why some people see an improvement in their acne when they stop eating dairy - it's their hormones balancing out.
It's really easy to harm yourself with veganism if you don't know what you're doing. It's important for the diet to be varied. I would encourage you to experiment with the foods that you don't like and to see if there's a way to make them more appealing.
I don't want to make this comment too long. If you have any questions then feel free to ask me
Please stop spreading misinformation on the boards...
What chemical is cheese lined with? All cheese? Velveeta? Gouda? Stilton? How is it addicting?
This is usually what people are referring to when they say cheese is addictive (although I've never heard it said that manufacturers "line" cheese with it before, that's a new phrasing): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casomorphin
Note that there is not any evidence showing that casomorphins have an impact on humans. It is purely speculative.
So what we're witnessing here is the birth of woo?
Judging by when I first heard about it, this woo is at least ready to start kindergarten. It's been rattling around the vegan community for a few years now. It's usually used as an attempt to get people to quit cheese by making them think they're consuming the equivalent of prescription opiates.
I think most of us who have had cheese and heavy-duty painkillers can understand that there is a meaningful distinction between the two. I mean, cheese is delicious but I haven't had any for over a decade and I don't really miss it. Opiates, on the other hand, destroy lives. I try to be understanding, but as someone whose family has been impacted by opiate addiction, this sort of thing sets my teeth on edge.
I rarely go a day without cheese but if I do, I don't crave it. Heck, I live in Wisconsin where some of the best cheese is made so it is always easy to get and if it were addicting a large portion of the state would be having problems. We tend to keep the good stuff in-state and any grocery will have great locally produced cheese.
Yeah, I don't think we need an addiction-conspiracy theory to explain why people think delicious foods are delicious.
I recently heard a sound bite style news report that "a new study shows" that casein "lights up" the same part of the brain that drugs do, ergo and heretofore making cheese addictive. Not sure why just cheese specifically, as opposed to all the dairy products that contain casein. I wondered if this was the end of sugar being the debil drug that food companies hooked us with and now it was cheese. I mean, when the pendulum swings, it swings like a son of a gun. Everyone duck!
OP, any diet can be healthy or unhealthy. You need to find a way to eat that makes it easy for you to stick to the right calorie level, makes you feel good and healthy, allows you to eat a varied diet, and doesn't cause you any ethical concerns. Only you know if that is veganism or not. Don't get too caught up in eating in a way that has a name though!
I have heard people say that the casein is "concentrated" when cheese is made, due to the fact that water content is strained off to isolate the cheese solids.
I have never made (dairy) cheese and I don't know much about it (other than watching one episode of Ina Garten where her husband went to a cheese factory), so I don't know if that is accurate. But that's the explanation given as to why cheese would be more addictive than, say, a glass of milk.
Y'know, I think if a particular approach to eating is really a good thing, the true facts about it ought to be enough of a persuader.
I guess I see how confirmation bias can suck proponents into believing positive-skew nonsense, then arguing that "my way is the only way to lose weight, cures cancer, helps you run 3 minute miles and break powerlifting records, and makes you poop only gentle rainbow sparkles", but when they try using inaccurate information to sell their way to others, in many cases it will backfire. Moreover, sensible people, even those who share their eating choices, will less respect their intellect.
Veganism is a reasonable, potentially healthy, generally ethically well thought out way of living. Eating like a vegan (without fully embracing complete vegan living) is also reasonable, etc. I support those who choose either with clear eyes, and who tell others about how well it works for them and why (as opposed to bludgeoning people about how superior their way is for everyone).
But "healthier for all" "cures/avoids cancer" "cures/avoids heart disease" or "addictive cheese" "bee vomit" "pus in milk" representations . . . nah. May persuade impressionable people who can't science, but still, nah.
Well said. Whenever somebody is trying to persuade me to do something using inaccurate, incomplete, or misleading information, it always tells me *they* aren't totally convinced they're doing the right thing (or that they've been mislead by someone else).
Even if it were ethical to lie to people to get them to change their behavior for some putative greater good (and I don't think that it is), when you use information like this to try to scare or persuade people, the biggest risk you run is that they will discover the lies (or others seeing the conversation will realize that you're using lies) and it then becomes a case of "vegans are liars." I think that does far more harm to animal advocacy than some people realize. It makes it that much harder for actual *good* arguments against animal exploitation to connect with people, because you've already primed them to think that vegans will say anything for their cause, even if it isn't true.6 -
janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »You miss cheese because they line it with a chemical that's addicting. You won't miss it after awhile. Trust me.
It can seem like a vegan lifestyle is really restricting at first, but it's really not. It's new. It's drastically different. It can take awhile of experimenting before you find foods that you like. I'm always pro vegan. There isn't a need for us to eat meat or animal products. Especially dairy. There isn't anything healthy about putting another mammals hormones into your body that was made for baby calves. That's why some people see an improvement in their acne when they stop eating dairy - it's their hormones balancing out.
It's really easy to harm yourself with veganism if you don't know what you're doing. It's important for the diet to be varied. I would encourage you to experiment with the foods that you don't like and to see if there's a way to make them more appealing.
I don't want to make this comment too long. If you have any questions then feel free to ask me
Please stop spreading misinformation on the boards...
What chemical is cheese lined with? All cheese? Velveeta? Gouda? Stilton? How is it addicting?
This is usually what people are referring to when they say cheese is addictive (although I've never heard it said that manufacturers "line" cheese with it before, that's a new phrasing): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casomorphin
Note that there is not any evidence showing that casomorphins have an impact on humans. It is purely speculative.
So what we're witnessing here is the birth of woo?
Judging by when I first heard about it, this woo is at least ready to start kindergarten. It's been rattling around the vegan community for a few years now. It's usually used as an attempt to get people to quit cheese by making them think they're consuming the equivalent of prescription opiates.
I think most of us who have had cheese and heavy-duty painkillers can understand that there is a meaningful distinction between the two. I mean, cheese is delicious but I haven't had any for over a decade and I don't really miss it. Opiates, on the other hand, destroy lives. I try to be understanding, but as someone whose family has been impacted by opiate addiction, this sort of thing sets my teeth on edge.
I rarely go a day without cheese but if I do, I don't crave it. Heck, I live in Wisconsin where some of the best cheese is made so it is always easy to get and if it were addicting a large portion of the state would be having problems. We tend to keep the good stuff in-state and any grocery will have great locally produced cheese.
Yeah, I don't think we need an addiction-conspiracy theory to explain why people think delicious foods are delicious.
I recently heard a sound bite style news report that "a new study shows" that casein "lights up" the same part of the brain that drugs do, ergo and heretofore making cheese addictive. Not sure why just cheese specifically, as opposed to all the dairy products that contain casein. I wondered if this was the end of sugar being the debil drug that food companies hooked us with and now it was cheese. I mean, when the pendulum swings, it swings like a son of a gun. Everyone duck!
OP, any diet can be healthy or unhealthy. You need to find a way to eat that makes it easy for you to stick to the right calorie level, makes you feel good and healthy, allows you to eat a varied diet, and doesn't cause you any ethical concerns. Only you know if that is veganism or not. Don't get too caught up in eating in a way that has a name though!
I have heard people say that the casein is "concentrated" when cheese is made, due to the fact that water content is strained off to isolate the cheese solids.
I have never made (dairy) cheese and I don't know much about it (other than watching one episode of Ina Garten where her husband went to a cheese factory), so I don't know if that is accurate. But that's the explanation given as to why cheese would be more addictive than, say, a glass of milk.
Rennet is used in cheesemaking because it contains enzymes that curdle the casein in the milk. In a baby mammal, this makes it more digestible after the baby feeds. In cheesemaking it separates the liquids from the solids so yes, it is more concentrated in cheese. Casein is the most prevalent protein in dairy.
To confirm what I was pretty sure I knew already I googled casein. Wow! This is definitely the next "sugar is the debil" woo coming out. Next time I see my niece I will have to ask her about it. She is marketing director of the cheese division of the Wisconsin Milk Marketing Board. They probably are already preparing info to counter the woo.4 -
janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »You miss cheese because they line it with a chemical that's addicting. You won't miss it after awhile. Trust me.
It can seem like a vegan lifestyle is really restricting at first, but it's really not. It's new. It's drastically different. It can take awhile of experimenting before you find foods that you like. I'm always pro vegan. There isn't a need for us to eat meat or animal products. Especially dairy. There isn't anything healthy about putting another mammals hormones into your body that was made for baby calves. That's why some people see an improvement in their acne when they stop eating dairy - it's their hormones balancing out.
It's really easy to harm yourself with veganism if you don't know what you're doing. It's important for the diet to be varied. I would encourage you to experiment with the foods that you don't like and to see if there's a way to make them more appealing.
I don't want to make this comment too long. If you have any questions then feel free to ask me
Please stop spreading misinformation on the boards...
What chemical is cheese lined with? All cheese? Velveeta? Gouda? Stilton? How is it addicting?
This is usually what people are referring to when they say cheese is addictive (although I've never heard it said that manufacturers "line" cheese with it before, that's a new phrasing): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casomorphin
Note that there is not any evidence showing that casomorphins have an impact on humans. It is purely speculative.
So what we're witnessing here is the birth of woo?
Judging by when I first heard about it, this woo is at least ready to start kindergarten. It's been rattling around the vegan community for a few years now. It's usually used as an attempt to get people to quit cheese by making them think they're consuming the equivalent of prescription opiates.
I think most of us who have had cheese and heavy-duty painkillers can understand that there is a meaningful distinction between the two. I mean, cheese is delicious but I haven't had any for over a decade and I don't really miss it. Opiates, on the other hand, destroy lives. I try to be understanding, but as someone whose family has been impacted by opiate addiction, this sort of thing sets my teeth on edge.
I rarely go a day without cheese but if I do, I don't crave it. Heck, I live in Wisconsin where some of the best cheese is made so it is always easy to get and if it were addicting a large portion of the state would be having problems. We tend to keep the good stuff in-state and any grocery will have great locally produced cheese.
Yeah, I don't think we need an addiction-conspiracy theory to explain why people think delicious foods are delicious.
I recently heard a sound bite style news report that "a new study shows" that casein "lights up" the same part of the brain that drugs do, ergo and heretofore making cheese addictive. Not sure why just cheese specifically, as opposed to all the dairy products that contain casein. I wondered if this was the end of sugar being the debil drug that food companies hooked us with and now it was cheese. I mean, when the pendulum swings, it swings like a son of a gun. Everyone duck!
OP, any diet can be healthy or unhealthy. You need to find a way to eat that makes it easy for you to stick to the right calorie level, makes you feel good and healthy, allows you to eat a varied diet, and doesn't cause you any ethical concerns. Only you know if that is veganism or not. Don't get too caught up in eating in a way that has a name though!
I have heard people say that the casein is "concentrated" when cheese is made, due to the fact that water content is strained off to isolate the cheese solids.
I have never made (dairy) cheese and I don't know much about it (other than watching one episode of Ina Garten where her husband went to a cheese factory), so I don't know if that is accurate. But that's the explanation given as to why cheese would be more addictive than, say, a glass of milk.
Rennet is used in cheesemaking because it contains enzymes that curdle the casein in the milk. In a baby mammal, this makes it more digestible after the baby feeds. In cheesemaking it separates the liquids from the solids so yes, it is more concentrated in cheese. Casein is the most prevalent protein in dairy.
To confirm what I was pretty sure I knew already I googled casein. Wow! This is definitely the next "sugar is the debil" woo coming out. Next time I see my niece I will have to ask her about it. She is marketing director of the cheese division of the Wisconsin Milk Marketing Board. They probably are already preparing info to counter the woo.
Thanks for the confirmation! I wasn't sure if I had it right or not.0 -
I am going to guess that the OP of this claim is a college student, college students know everything. She probably read that statement on a pro-vegan website and repeats it without verifying the information.cerise_noir wrote: »Until you start posting valid sources, your claims are not valid. I’d like to know, what chemical?
Dihydrogen monoxide can be very lethal! If only more people knew of the dangers.cerise_noir wrote: »Do you consume DHMO?
4 -
@DoubleUbea "I am going to guess that the OP of this claim is a college student, college students know everything. She probably read that statement on a pro-vegan website and repeats it without verifying the information."
Umm, excuse me, I am a PhD student and I certainly don't think I know everything. In fact, the more I study, the more I realise I dont know! Please don't throw stereotypes around.
5 -
An aside, addressed to newer vegetarians: If the idea that cheese uses animal rennet is new and distressing to you, be aware that vegetable rennet is a thing. Sometimes labels even designate. :drinker:3
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An aside, addressed to newer vegetarians: If the idea that cheese uses animal rennet is new and distressing to you, be aware that vegetable rennet is a thing. Sometimes labels even designate. :drinker:
And some cheeses, especially soft unripened ones like cream cheese, ricotta, and cottage cheese do not use rennet at all.5 -
An aside, addressed to newer vegetarians: If the idea that cheese uses animal rennet is new and distressing to you, be aware that vegetable rennet is a thing. Sometimes labels even designate. :drinker:
And some cheeses, especially soft unripened ones like cream cheese, ricotta, and cottage cheese do not use rennet at all.
Also, I have had lacto-ovo vegetarian friends tell me that if the source of the rennet isn't listed on the label, many companies will be happy to tell you what they use if you contact them via email or customer service hotline.3 -
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@DoubleUbea "I am going to guess that the OP of this claim is a college student, college students know everything. She probably read that statement on a pro-vegan website and repeats it without verifying the information."
Umm, excuse me, I am a PhD student and I certainly don't think I know everything. In fact, the more I study, the more I realise I dont know! Please don't throw stereotypes around.
Unless I am mistaken @lcrizz is the originator of the wild cheese addiction claim. Why are you acting defensive?4 -
May I just add my little bit. I am vegan for ethical reasons first and foremost and it is a lifestyle not a diet. I am overweight because I do tend to indulge in vegan treats! Vegan food can be extremely unhealthy if you just want to eat vegan burgers and chips! Variety is the spice of life and vegan food can be amazing if you are prepared to put in the time and effort to create some of your own recipes. I was vegetarian for 10 years before becoming vegan. I absolutely loved cheese but didn't know why - here's why :Casomorphins have an opioid effect—resulting in addiction to cheese. So there you go. You are addicted to it. It is in the milk and it makes the calves want to drink it and keeps them calm!! It was never meant for humans. I have discovered vegan cheese now and the ones we are getting in New Zealand are amazing (and a couple of them are actually made here too). Anyway, sorry to rant on, but in my opinion if your reasons for going "vegan" are just because you want to get healthy and you really are not committed to the lifestyle, then I think you should seek out a decent nutritionist. Good luck!23
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Pommieaussie wrote: »May I just add my little bit. I am vegan for ethical reasons first and foremost and it is a lifestyle not a diet. I am overweight because I do tend to indulge in vegan treats! Vegan food can be extremely unhealthy if you just want to eat vegan burgers and chips! Variety is the spice of life and vegan food can be amazing if you are prepared to put in the time and effort to create some of your own recipes. I was vegetarian for 10 years before becoming vegan. I absolutely loved cheese but didn't know why - here's why :Casomorphins have an opioid effect—resulting in addiction to cheese. So there you go. You are addicted to it. It is in the milk and it makes the calves want to drink it and keeps them calm!! It was never meant for humans. I have discovered vegan cheese now and the ones we are getting in New Zealand are amazing (and a couple of them are actually made here too). Anyway, sorry to rant on, but in my opinion if your reasons for going "vegan" are just because you want to get healthy and you really are not committed to the lifestyle, then I think you should seek out a decent nutritionist. Good luck!
Want to know how I know you didn't read the thread?12 -
Gawd, and it's only Monday.7
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BruinsGal_91 wrote: »Gawd, and it's only Monday.
There must be some new woo "study" making the rounds - I've seen this "cheese = opioids" in a couple of places recently. Next thing you know, we'll all find out bananas have an effect like heroin on the human brain!!!4 -
BruinsGal_91 wrote: »Gawd, and it's only Monday.
There must be some new woo "study" making the rounds - I've seen this "cheese = opioids" in a couple of places recently. Next thing you know, we'll all find out bananas have an effect like heroin on the human brain!!!
Aw, nobody better be swatting at bananas with the woo stick. I love to nibble on mine between sets. I usually have a couple a day.
3 -
BruinsGal_91 wrote: »Gawd, and it's only Monday.
There must be some new woo "study" making the rounds - I've seen this "cheese = opioids" in a couple of places recently. Next thing you know, we'll all find out bananas have an effect like heroin on the human brain!!!
If you love bananas like you love petting puppies, then yes.1
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