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Keto diet = good or bad
Replies
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GaleHawkins wrote: »https://nutritiouslife.com/eat-empowered/food-cravings-really-mean/
@jjpptt2 the above is just a quick find that can help us all learn how to dig deeper on this subject. As noted this is relative a new discovery for most of us.
Just learning calories was not the root cause of my 40 years of obesity has been helpful already.
Calories were the root cause of your obesity though, specifically, too many of them. You can continue to blame cravings or specific foods all you like, but the simple fact was you ate too much. You'll gain weight if you eat too many calories on keto too, and that is a fact whether you choose to believe it or not.
Well no point in studying patients with obesity or it's cause because you have it figured out. Just think of the money that can be saved because you have ruled out genetics and hormonal issues completely.
Genetics and hormonal issues don't invalidate CICO. If a person loses weight, it is because they are at a calorie deficit, not because the magical keto fairy removed their fat stores in the middle of the night. Just think of the money that could be saved if people could understand this one basic principle instead of jumping from one fad diet to the next.
For the record the keto or LCHF WOE is the only diet I have ever tried other than calorie deficit or restriction. I lost 50 pounds and then gained 30 back. So I failed or CICO failed whatever. It didn't seem like it was sustainable for me and I really didn't like it. I am down 22 pounds now and the questions that remain are is this new WOE sustainable and are there any negative effects to be found. Not everyone will like it but my wife and I do. I hope the magical keto fairy keeps visiting us each night for a long time.
In all fairness, you don't really know how effective it is for you still in terms of maintenance. Hopefully, its successful but time will tell.
Calorie counting helped me lose the first 50, but it doesn't work for me now. So i am working on modifying foods to get around 10% from 18% bf.
It's a work in progress and maintaining is a big unknown. It was my downfall previously. I think I got to 14% BF when I lost 50 and people started asking if I was well so I may have gone below my natural weight. My thought process was to have a buffer if I did gain some back but I blew right past that.1 -
happytree923 wrote: »charlene77 wrote: »My husband just lost 70 pounds on Keto! He was supposed to start blood pressure medication in March. His blood pressure is down to 125/70.
He walked in the doctors office today and the doctor was thrilled as soon as he saw him. When he told him what he did, he said he is excited to see his blood work as he thinks his numbers are going to be good.
I’ve started Keto. I am down 31 pounds.
Don’t listen to everyone that says Keto is all about eating bacon.
I eat a ton of veggies everyday. I am actually aiming for higher protein than fat, unlike like many Keto people. I just stay away from sugar and don’t stress about it.
Maybe I should be considered low carb instead of Keto, since I am not into fatty meats.
You both lost weight not because of Keto. You simply lost weight due to calorie deficit. Its that simple.
So predictable, when someone has success with a keto WOE a flurry of following post will claim keto had nothing to do with it. For the record keto has nothing to do with my 22 pound loss and it was effortless with no calorie counting.
You can find people who have had weight loss success without calorie counting with the cabbage soup diet, the military diet, and breatharianism. That doesn't mean any of those diets have special weight loss effects beyond a calorie deficit.
Wasn't implying magic but if someone finds a way of eating that offers them success over another then it is a win in my book. Yes there will be a deficit but some find their path to deficit takes a different road to get there.4 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »https://nutritiouslife.com/eat-empowered/food-cravings-really-mean/
@jjpptt2 the above is just a quick find that can help us all learn how to dig deeper on this subject. As noted this is relative a new discovery for most of us.
Just learning calories was not the root cause of my 40 years of obesity has been helpful already.
Calories were the root cause of your obesity though, specifically, too many of them. You can continue to blame cravings or specific foods all you like, but the simple fact was you ate too much. You'll gain weight if you eat too many calories on keto too, and that is a fact whether you choose to believe it or not.
Well no point in studying patients with obesity or it's cause because you have it figured out. Just think of the money that can be saved because you have ruled out genetics and hormonal issues completely.
Genetics and hormonal issues don't invalidate CICO. If a person loses weight, it is because they are at a calorie deficit, not because the magical keto fairy removed their fat stores in the middle of the night. Just think of the money that could be saved if people could understand this one basic principle instead of jumping from one fad diet to the next.
For the record the keto or LCHF WOE is the only diet I have ever tried other than calorie deficit or restriction. I lost 50 pounds and then gained 30 back. So I failed or CICO failed whatever. It didn't seem like it was sustainable for me and I really didn't like it. I am down 22 pounds now and the questions that remain are is this new WOE sustainable and are there any negative effects to be found. Not everyone will like it but my wife and I do. I hope the magical keto fairy keeps visiting us each night for a long time.
CICO can't fail, it is simply an equation which determines whether you will gain, lose, or maintain weight. When your CI is greater than CO, you will gain weight, which is what happened when you gained thirty pounds back. The reason you are down 22 pounds now is because your CI is less than your CO. Keto may be more sustainable for you because it helps you to adhere to a calorie deficit, but the reason you are losing weight is because of that very deficit. This is what I feel you are failing to understand, is that it is not the carb restriction which is causing you to lose weight, it is the calorie deficit. I personally have nothing against keto even though I know it would not be sustainable for me. I just think it would be of great benefit for people on this site to understand why they lose, gain, or maintain weight instead of being filled with misinformation which is what happens a lot when discussing keto.
Whatever....I know what CICO is. I think you know what I was talking about. I failed because my calorie counting to reduce the calorie in side of the equation was not sustainable for me. I mean if we take this to every extreme literal meaning of every definition and scientific formula it is going to start to look like this. "keto causes me to lose weight". "To say it is caused by calorie deficit is being redundant because I already said keto caused me to lose weight". "If I have lost weight we already know there is a calorie deficit because without it weight loss is not possible".15 -
happytree923 wrote: »charlene77 wrote: »My husband just lost 70 pounds on Keto! He was supposed to start blood pressure medication in March. His blood pressure is down to 125/70.
He walked in the doctors office today and the doctor was thrilled as soon as he saw him. When he told him what he did, he said he is excited to see his blood work as he thinks his numbers are going to be good.
I’ve started Keto. I am down 31 pounds.
Don’t listen to everyone that says Keto is all about eating bacon.
I eat a ton of veggies everyday. I am actually aiming for higher protein than fat, unlike like many Keto people. I just stay away from sugar and don’t stress about it.
Maybe I should be considered low carb instead of Keto, since I am not into fatty meats.
You both lost weight not because of Keto. You simply lost weight due to calorie deficit. Its that simple.
So predictable, when someone has success with a keto WOE a flurry of following post will claim keto had nothing to do with it. For the record keto has nothing to do with my 22 pound loss and it was effortless with no calorie counting.
You can find people who have had weight loss success without calorie counting with the cabbage soup diet, the military diet, and breatharianism. That doesn't mean any of those diets have special weight loss effects beyond a calorie deficit.
Wasn't implying magic but if someone finds a way of eating that offers them success over another then it is a win in my book. Yes there will be a deficit but some find their path to deficit takes a different road to get there.
Here's the semantics I think we're missing (or digging our heels in about?)...
Keto doesn't offer benefits over CICO. It *may* offer benefits over calorie counting. That's an important distinction - CICO is NOT the same as calorie counting.
Previously, you counted calories, lost weight, then regained it. Calorie counting failed for you in that instance. Now, you're doing keto, which is working. Only time will tell if it works long term.
But in both situations, CICO is "working" as evidenced by the weight changes.12 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »https://nutritiouslife.com/eat-empowered/food-cravings-really-mean/
@jjpptt2 the above is just a quick find that can help us all learn how to dig deeper on this subject. As noted this is relative a new discovery for most of us.
Just learning calories was not the root cause of my 40 years of obesity has been helpful already.
Calories were the root cause of your obesity though, specifically, too many of them. You can continue to blame cravings or specific foods all you like, but the simple fact was you ate too much. You'll gain weight if you eat too many calories on keto too, and that is a fact whether you choose to believe it or not.
Well no point in studying patients with obesity or it's cause because you have it figured out. Just think of the money that can be saved because you have ruled out genetics and hormonal issues completely.
Genetics and hormonal issues don't invalidate CICO. If a person loses weight, it is because they are at a calorie deficit, not because the magical keto fairy removed their fat stores in the middle of the night. Just think of the money that could be saved if people could understand this one basic principle instead of jumping from one fad diet to the next.
For the record the keto or LCHF WOE is the only diet I have ever tried other than calorie deficit or restriction. I lost 50 pounds and then gained 30 back. So I failed or CICO failed whatever. It didn't seem like it was sustainable for me and I really didn't like it. I am down 22 pounds now and the questions that remain are is this new WOE sustainable and are there any negative effects to be found. Not everyone will like it but my wife and I do. I hope the magical keto fairy keeps visiting us each night for a long time.
CICO can't fail, it is simply an equation which determines whether you will gain, lose, or maintain weight. When your CI is greater than CO, you will gain weight, which is what happened when you gained thirty pounds back. The reason you are down 22 pounds now is because your CI is less than your CO. Keto may be more sustainable for you because it helps you to adhere to a calorie deficit, but the reason you are losing weight is because of that very deficit. This is what I feel you are failing to understand, is that it is not the carb restriction which is causing you to lose weight, it is the calorie deficit. I personally have nothing against keto even though I know it would not be sustainable for me. I just think it would be of great benefit for people on this site to understand why they lose, gain, or maintain weight instead of being filled with misinformation which is what happens a lot when discussing keto.
Whatever....I know what CICO is. I think you know what I was talking about. I failed because my calorie counting to reduce the calorie in side of the equation was not sustainable for me. I mean if we take this to every extreme literal meaning of every definition and scientific formula it is going to start to look like this. "keto causes me to lose weight". "To say it is caused by calorie deficit is being redundant because I already said keto caused me to lose weight". "If I have lost weight we already know there is a calorie deficit because without it weight loss is not possible".
See, you get it.
There are zealots on both sides.1 -
But if you are losing weight you are in a calorie deficit, and if you are doing Keto you are restricting.For the record the keto or LCHF WOE is the only diet I have ever tried other than calorie deficit or restriction.
How could CICO fail? Lose, gain or maintain... CICO.I lost 50 pounds and then gained 30 back. So I failed or CICO failed whatever.
This is the important takeaway IMO. You identified that whatever you were doing was not for you, and then you found something that was...It didn't seem like it was sustainable for me and I really didn't like it.
Only time will tell but so far so good...I am down 22 pounds now and the questions that remain are is this new WOE sustainable and are there any negative effects to be found. Not everyone will like it but my wife and I do. I hope the magical keto fairy keeps visiting us each night for a long time.
2 -
Keto naturally suppresses your appetite, and most of what you eat (fat, protein) generally takes longer to digest.
At the end of the day it's still taking in less calories. I lost 61 lbs in six months using keto and exercise. If it works for you, then good on ye.11 -
EddieHaskell97 wrote: »Keto naturally suppresses your appetite, and most of what you eat (fat, protein) generally takes longer to digest.
At the end of the day it's still taking in less calories. I lost 61 lbs in six months using keto and exercise. If it works for you, then good on ye.
Keto suppresses some people's appetite - that's an important distinction. For some people (me) it just leads to binge cycles.11 -
charlene77 wrote: »My husband just lost 70 pounds on Keto! He was supposed to start blood pressure medication in March. His blood pressure is down to 125/70.
He walked in the doctors office today and the doctor was thrilled as soon as he saw him. When he told him what he did, he said he is excited to see his blood work as he thinks his numbers are going to be good.
I’ve started Keto. I am down 31 pounds.
Don’t listen to everyone that says Keto is all about eating bacon.
I eat a ton of veggies everyday. I am actually aiming for higher protein than fat, unlike like many Keto people. I just stay away from sugar and don’t stress about it.
Maybe I should be considered low carb instead of Keto, since I am not into fatty meats.
You both lost weight not because of Keto. You simply lost weight due to calorie deficit. Its that simple.
So predictable, when someone has success with a keto WOE a flurry of following post will claim keto had nothing to do with it. For the record keto has nothing to do with my 22 pound loss and it was effortless with no calorie counting.
But its the truth!!!! I am not talking about any health benefits, and there are some. But weight loss???? Come on, its all about calorie deficit and nothing else.
But what if my deficit is better than your deficit?
The what now??
My deficit is gonna come over and beat your deficit up!!!8 -
That's not accurate, but you knew that.It's been weird to see Keto go huge like this because it is essentially Atkins rebranded with a new name since people realized the limited effectiveness of Atkins. While it does seem like Keto can cause people to lose weight quick, these type of diets tend to be bad for keeping the weight off, as they are hard to follow long term and people usually gain the weight back. Also, even if you are losing weight on it, eating diets high in saturated fats are not good for you. There is a reason why Nutrition doctors are coming out against it.
Carbs, fat, and protein are a necessary part of the human diet for the average person and completely cutting of one of those isn't usually a good thing. Obviously for people with certain health conditions it maybe benefiical, but your normal dieter is better off eating a balanced diet of real, healthy food. It may take a bit longer to lose it, but it is more sustainable.
That being said, I wish everyone on the Keto diet the best of luck and hope you have success with it in reaching your goals.
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charlene77 wrote: »My husband just lost 70 pounds on Keto! He was supposed to start blood pressure medication in March. His blood pressure is down to 125/70.
He walked in the doctors office today and the doctor was thrilled as soon as he saw him. When he told him what he did, he said he is excited to see his blood work as he thinks his numbers are going to be good.
I’ve started Keto. I am down 31 pounds.
Don’t listen to everyone that says Keto is all about eating bacon.
I eat a ton of veggies everyday. I am actually aiming for higher protein than fat, unlike like many Keto people. I just stay away from sugar and don’t stress about it.
Maybe I should be considered low carb instead of Keto, since I am not into fatty meats.
You both lost weight not because of Keto. You simply lost weight due to calorie deficit. Its that simple.
So predictable, when someone has success with a keto WOE a flurry of following post will claim keto had nothing to do with it. For the record keto has nothing to do with my 22 pound loss and it was effortless with no calorie counting.
But its the truth!!!! I am not talking about any health benefits, and there are some. But weight loss???? Come on, its all about calorie deficit and nothing else.
But what if my deficit is better than your deficit?
The what now??
Just having fun, total nonsense.6 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »https://nutritiouslife.com/eat-empowered/food-cravings-really-mean/
@jjpptt2 the above is just a quick find that can help us all learn how to dig deeper on this subject. As noted this is relative a new discovery for most of us.
Just learning calories was not the root cause of my 40 years of obesity has been helpful already.
Calories were the root cause of your obesity though, specifically, too many of them. You can continue to blame cravings or specific foods all you like, but the simple fact was you ate too much. You'll gain weight if you eat too many calories on keto too, and that is a fact whether you choose to believe it or not.
Well no point in studying patients with obesity or it's cause because you have it figured out. Just think of the money that can be saved because you have ruled out genetics and hormonal issues completely.
Genetics and hormonal issues don't invalidate CICO. If a person loses weight, it is because they are at a calorie deficit, not because the magical keto fairy removed their fat stores in the middle of the night. Just think of the money that could be saved if people could understand this one basic principle instead of jumping from one fad diet to the next.
For the record the keto or LCHF WOE is the only diet I have ever tried other than calorie deficit or restriction. I lost 50 pounds and then gained 30 back. So I failed or CICO failed whatever. It didn't seem like it was sustainable for me and I really didn't like it. I am down 22 pounds now and the questions that remain are is this new WOE sustainable and are there any negative effects to be found. Not everyone will like it but my wife and I do. I hope the magical keto fairy keeps visiting us each night for a long time.
CICO can't fail, it is simply an equation which determines whether you will gain, lose, or maintain weight. When your CI is greater than CO, you will gain weight, which is what happened when you gained thirty pounds back. The reason you are down 22 pounds now is because your CI is less than your CO. Keto may be more sustainable for you because it helps you to adhere to a calorie deficit, but the reason you are losing weight is because of that very deficit. This is what I feel you are failing to understand, is that it is not the carb restriction which is causing you to lose weight, it is the calorie deficit. I personally have nothing against keto even though I know it would not be sustainable for me. I just think it would be of great benefit for people on this site to understand why they lose, gain, or maintain weight instead of being filled with misinformation which is what happens a lot when discussing keto.
Whatever....I know what CICO is. I think you know what I was talking about. I failed because my calorie counting to reduce the calorie in side of the equation was not sustainable for me. I mean if we take this to every extreme literal meaning of every definition and scientific formula it is going to start to look like this. "keto causes me to lose weight". "To say it is caused by calorie deficit is being redundant because I already said keto caused me to lose weight". "If I have lost weight we already know there is a calorie deficit because without it weight loss is not possible".
You can say it is redundant to point out that a calorie deficit caused you to lose weight and not keto, but I don't think it is. Keto is the tool that you use to get to a calorie deficit. The deficit is the actual reason for your weight loss. The problem too often is that those two facts get challenged all of the time in the forums and your responses at times seem to challenge them as well. I wasn't aware that I am not supposed to take what you say literally. There is a big difference between saying CICO failed and that calorie counting was not sustainable for you and I felt that was worth pointing out. For the record, I didn't know what you were trying to say and there was no way for me to know exactly what you meant since it wasn't clear.12 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »https://nutritiouslife.com/eat-empowered/food-cravings-really-mean/
@jjpptt2 the above is just a quick find that can help us all learn how to dig deeper on this subject. As noted this is relative a new discovery for most of us.
Just learning calories was not the root cause of my 40 years of obesity has been helpful already.
Calories were the root cause of your obesity though, specifically, too many of them. You can continue to blame cravings or specific foods all you like, but the simple fact was you ate too much. You'll gain weight if you eat too many calories on keto too, and that is a fact whether you choose to believe it or not.
Well no point in studying patients with obesity or it's cause because you have it figured out. Just think of the money that can be saved because you have ruled out genetics and hormonal issues completely.
Genetics and hormonal issues don't invalidate CICO. If a person loses weight, it is because they are at a calorie deficit, not because the magical keto fairy removed their fat stores in the middle of the night. Just think of the money that could be saved if people could understand this one basic principle instead of jumping from one fad diet to the next.
For the record the keto or LCHF WOE is the only diet I have ever tried other than calorie deficit or restriction. I lost 50 pounds and then gained 30 back. So I failed or CICO failed whatever. It didn't seem like it was sustainable for me and I really didn't like it. I am down 22 pounds now and the questions that remain are is this new WOE sustainable and are there any negative effects to be found. Not everyone will like it but my wife and I do. I hope the magical keto fairy keeps visiting us each night for a long time.
CICO can't fail, it is simply an equation which determines whether you will gain, lose, or maintain weight. When your CI is greater than CO, you will gain weight, which is what happened when you gained thirty pounds back. The reason you are down 22 pounds now is because your CI is less than your CO. Keto may be more sustainable for you because it helps you to adhere to a calorie deficit, but the reason you are losing weight is because of that very deficit. This is what I feel you are failing to understand, is that it is not the carb restriction which is causing you to lose weight, it is the calorie deficit. I personally have nothing against keto even though I know it would not be sustainable for me. I just think it would be of great benefit for people on this site to understand why they lose, gain, or maintain weight instead of being filled with misinformation which is what happens a lot when discussing keto.
Whatever....I know what CICO is. I think you know what I was talking about. I failed because my calorie counting to reduce the calorie in side of the equation was not sustainable for me. I mean if we take this to every extreme literal meaning of every definition and scientific formula it is going to start to look like this. "keto causes me to lose weight". "To say it is caused by calorie deficit is being redundant because I already said keto caused me to lose weight". "If I have lost weight we already know there is a calorie deficit because without it weight loss is not possible".
Considering that we're on a discussion forum where people regularly ask questions like "Will I still lose weight if I'm under my calorie goal but over my carb goal?" or "Can I still lose weight if I'm eating chocolate cake?" I don't know if it is redundant for people to point out that keto doesn't actually cause weight loss, it's just a method that some people find makes it easier to reach a calorie deficit.
You may know what you mean when you write things like "CICO failed," but not everyone reading your words is going to understand that you don't literally mean that CICO failed.13 -
I think it is universal to all diets or ways of eating after weight loss to maintain without putting the weight back on. It is my hope that if keto is an easy and effective weight loss method for me then maintaining will hopefully be the same. If not I will need to go back to the CICO method.
I am just joking about that last part so save the paragraph explaining that.6 -
happytree923 wrote: »charlene77 wrote: »My husband just lost 70 pounds on Keto! He was supposed to start blood pressure medication in March. His blood pressure is down to 125/70.
He walked in the doctors office today and the doctor was thrilled as soon as he saw him. When he told him what he did, he said he is excited to see his blood work as he thinks his numbers are going to be good.
I’ve started Keto. I am down 31 pounds.
Don’t listen to everyone that says Keto is all about eating bacon.
I eat a ton of veggies everyday. I am actually aiming for higher protein than fat, unlike like many Keto people. I just stay away from sugar and don’t stress about it.
Maybe I should be considered low carb instead of Keto, since I am not into fatty meats.
You both lost weight not because of Keto. You simply lost weight due to calorie deficit. Its that simple.
So predictable, when someone has success with a keto WOE a flurry of following post will claim keto had nothing to do with it. For the record keto has nothing to do with my 22 pound loss and it was effortless with no calorie counting.
You can find people who have had weight loss success without calorie counting with the cabbage soup diet, the military diet, and breatharianism. That doesn't mean any of those diets have special weight loss effects beyond a calorie deficit.
Wasn't implying magic but if someone finds a way of eating that offers them success over another then it is a win in my book. Yes there will be a deficit but some find their path to deficit takes a different road to get there.
Here's the semantics I think we're missing (or digging our heels in about?)...
Keto doesn't offer benefits over CICO. It *may* offer benefits over calorie counting. That's an important distinction - CICO is NOT the same as calorie counting.
Previously, you counted calories, lost weight, then regained it. Calorie counting failed for you in that instance. Now, you're doing keto, which is working. Only time will tell if it works long term.
But in both situations, CICO is "working" as evidenced by the weight changes.
I think comparing calorie counting to keto is like comparing apples to trombones.
You can still count calories and do keto, you know?
The reason some people don't find the need to count calories on keto is because they reach a point of satiation consuming that macro mix that inherently creates a deficit for them.
For people who are on the margins like small, inactive older women who have lower bodyweight goals and messed up satiety triggers, I suspect calorie counting AND keto might need to go hand in hand.
In other words, they aren't mutually exclusive, and I think the other poster comparing his lack of success counting calories on one macro mix and contrasting it to current success on a different macro mix and not comparing like to like is muddying the waters.
10 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »happytree923 wrote: »charlene77 wrote: »My husband just lost 70 pounds on Keto! He was supposed to start blood pressure medication in March. His blood pressure is down to 125/70.
He walked in the doctors office today and the doctor was thrilled as soon as he saw him. When he told him what he did, he said he is excited to see his blood work as he thinks his numbers are going to be good.
I’ve started Keto. I am down 31 pounds.
Don’t listen to everyone that says Keto is all about eating bacon.
I eat a ton of veggies everyday. I am actually aiming for higher protein than fat, unlike like many Keto people. I just stay away from sugar and don’t stress about it.
Maybe I should be considered low carb instead of Keto, since I am not into fatty meats.
You both lost weight not because of Keto. You simply lost weight due to calorie deficit. Its that simple.
So predictable, when someone has success with a keto WOE a flurry of following post will claim keto had nothing to do with it. For the record keto has nothing to do with my 22 pound loss and it was effortless with no calorie counting.
You can find people who have had weight loss success without calorie counting with the cabbage soup diet, the military diet, and breatharianism. That doesn't mean any of those diets have special weight loss effects beyond a calorie deficit.
Wasn't implying magic but if someone finds a way of eating that offers them success over another then it is a win in my book. Yes there will be a deficit but some find their path to deficit takes a different road to get there.
Here's the semantics I think we're missing (or digging our heels in about?)...
Keto doesn't offer benefits over CICO. It *may* offer benefits over calorie counting. That's an important distinction - CICO is NOT the same as calorie counting.
Previously, you counted calories, lost weight, then regained it. Calorie counting failed for you in that instance. Now, you're doing keto, which is working. Only time will tell if it works long term.
But in both situations, CICO is "working" as evidenced by the weight changes.
I think comparing calorie counting to keto is like comparing apples to trombones.
You can still count calories and do keto, you know?
The reason some people don't find the need to count calories on keto is because they reach a point of satiation consuming that macro mix that inherently creates a deficit for them.
For people who are on the margins like small, inactive older women who have lower bodyweight goals and messed up satiety triggers, I suspect calorie counting AND keto might need to go hand in hand.
In other words, they aren't mutually exclusive, and I think the other poster comparing his lack of success counting calories on one macro mix and contrasting it to current success on a different macro mix and not comparing like to like is muddying the waters.
Agreed. I think that applies to most if not all of the "diet" plans we see discussed here... at least any plan that is about how or when to eat rather than how much. We see it in the IF threads all the time. Just like with keto, you can IF and still gain/lose/maintain. Some have to keto/IF/whatever AND calorie count to be successful.0 -
I've gained weight while doing IF and I could easily gain weight while doing keto. There are a lot of high-fat and protein foods that I enjoy and could readily overeat. A 16-ounce ribeye steak cooked in butter is somewhere in the neighborhood of 1500-1600 calories, and I can crush that for dinner with room to spare. 4 ounces of macadamia nuts for a snack is another 500'ish calories. So I'm already over 2000 calories for the day and nowhere near satisfied.GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »happytree923 wrote: »charlene77 wrote: »My husband just lost 70 pounds on Keto! He was supposed to start blood pressure medication in March. His blood pressure is down to 125/70.
He walked in the doctors office today and the doctor was thrilled as soon as he saw him. When he told him what he did, he said he is excited to see his blood work as he thinks his numbers are going to be good.
I’ve started Keto. I am down 31 pounds.
Don’t listen to everyone that says Keto is all about eating bacon.
I eat a ton of veggies everyday. I am actually aiming for higher protein than fat, unlike like many Keto people. I just stay away from sugar and don’t stress about it.
Maybe I should be considered low carb instead of Keto, since I am not into fatty meats.
You both lost weight not because of Keto. You simply lost weight due to calorie deficit. Its that simple.
So predictable, when someone has success with a keto WOE a flurry of following post will claim keto had nothing to do with it. For the record keto has nothing to do with my 22 pound loss and it was effortless with no calorie counting.
You can find people who have had weight loss success without calorie counting with the cabbage soup diet, the military diet, and breatharianism. That doesn't mean any of those diets have special weight loss effects beyond a calorie deficit.
Wasn't implying magic but if someone finds a way of eating that offers them success over another then it is a win in my book. Yes there will be a deficit but some find their path to deficit takes a different road to get there.
Here's the semantics I think we're missing (or digging our heels in about?)...
Keto doesn't offer benefits over CICO. It *may* offer benefits over calorie counting. That's an important distinction - CICO is NOT the same as calorie counting.
Previously, you counted calories, lost weight, then regained it. Calorie counting failed for you in that instance. Now, you're doing keto, which is working. Only time will tell if it works long term.
But in both situations, CICO is "working" as evidenced by the weight changes.
I think comparing calorie counting to keto is like comparing apples to trombones.
You can still count calories and do keto, you know?
The reason some people don't find the need to count calories on keto is because they reach a point of satiation consuming that macro mix that inherently creates a deficit for them.
For people who are on the margins like small, inactive older women who have lower bodyweight goals and messed up satiety triggers, I suspect calorie counting AND keto might need to go hand in hand.
In other words, they aren't mutually exclusive, and I think the other poster comparing his lack of success counting calories on one macro mix and contrasting it to current success on a different macro mix and not comparing like to like is muddying the waters.
Agreed. I think that applies to most if not all of the "diet" plans we see discussed here... at least any plan that is about how or when to eat rather than how much. We see it in the IF threads all the time. Just like with keto, you can IF and still gain/lose/maintain. Some have to keto/IF/whatever AND calorie count to be successful.
Keto is a high-fat diet, and fat is calorie dense (225% the density of protein or carbs). For somebody who doesn't find fat particularly satiating, things could get out of hand very quickly unless they're at least keeping a reasonable idea of how many calories they're consuming.9 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »happytree923 wrote: »charlene77 wrote: »My husband just lost 70 pounds on Keto! He was supposed to start blood pressure medication in March. His blood pressure is down to 125/70.
He walked in the doctors office today and the doctor was thrilled as soon as he saw him. When he told him what he did, he said he is excited to see his blood work as he thinks his numbers are going to be good.
I’ve started Keto. I am down 31 pounds.
Don’t listen to everyone that says Keto is all about eating bacon.
I eat a ton of veggies everyday. I am actually aiming for higher protein than fat, unlike like many Keto people. I just stay away from sugar and don’t stress about it.
Maybe I should be considered low carb instead of Keto, since I am not into fatty meats.
You both lost weight not because of Keto. You simply lost weight due to calorie deficit. Its that simple.
So predictable, when someone has success with a keto WOE a flurry of following post will claim keto had nothing to do with it. For the record keto has nothing to do with my 22 pound loss and it was effortless with no calorie counting.
You can find people who have had weight loss success without calorie counting with the cabbage soup diet, the military diet, and breatharianism. That doesn't mean any of those diets have special weight loss effects beyond a calorie deficit.
Wasn't implying magic but if someone finds a way of eating that offers them success over another then it is a win in my book. Yes there will be a deficit but some find their path to deficit takes a different road to get there.
Here's the semantics I think we're missing (or digging our heels in about?)...
Keto doesn't offer benefits over CICO. It *may* offer benefits over calorie counting. That's an important distinction - CICO is NOT the same as calorie counting.
Previously, you counted calories, lost weight, then regained it. Calorie counting failed for you in that instance. Now, you're doing keto, which is working. Only time will tell if it works long term.
But in both situations, CICO is "working" as evidenced by the weight changes.
I think comparing calorie counting to keto is like comparing apples to trombones.
You can still count calories and do keto, you know?
The reason some people don't find the need to count calories on keto is because they reach a point of satiation consuming that macro mix that inherently creates a deficit for them.
For people who are on the margins like small, inactive older women who have lower bodyweight goals and messed up satiety triggers, I suspect calorie counting AND keto might need to go hand in hand.
In other words, they aren't mutually exclusive, and I think the other poster comparing his lack of success counting calories on one macro mix and contrasting it to current success on a different macro mix and not comparing like to like is muddying the waters.
Agreed. I think that applies to most if not all of the "diet" plans we see discussed here... at least any plan that is about how or when to eat rather than how much. We see it in the IF threads all the time. Just like with keto, you can IF and still gain/lose/maintain. Some have to keto/IF/whatever AND calorie count to be successful.
Oh, and healthy eating! I was a 210 pound whole foods vegetarian who IF'ed!! Hilarious personal experience to show that it really, truly is all about the calories. My food choice was great, I was just eating too much of it! Now, for matters of satiety and what makes it easier to comply with the correct number of calories to maintain an ideal weight? Personal preference.
I really wish everyone would just acknowledge this. Calories first. Satiety matters for compliance to calorie goals and that matter is down to individual preference. There is no one better course in an objective sense.9 -
I've gained weight while doing IF and I could easily gain weight while doing keto. There are a lot of high-fat and protein foods that I enjoy and could readily overeat. A 16-ounce ribeye steak cooked in butter is somewhere in the neighborhood of 1500-1600 calories, and I can crush that for dinner with room to spare. 4 ounces of macadamia nuts for a snack is another 500'ish calories. So I'm already over 2000 calories for the day and nowhere near satisfied.GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »happytree923 wrote: »charlene77 wrote: »My husband just lost 70 pounds on Keto! He was supposed to start blood pressure medication in March. His blood pressure is down to 125/70.
He walked in the doctors office today and the doctor was thrilled as soon as he saw him. When he told him what he did, he said he is excited to see his blood work as he thinks his numbers are going to be good.
I’ve started Keto. I am down 31 pounds.
Don’t listen to everyone that says Keto is all about eating bacon.
I eat a ton of veggies everyday. I am actually aiming for higher protein than fat, unlike like many Keto people. I just stay away from sugar and don’t stress about it.
Maybe I should be considered low carb instead of Keto, since I am not into fatty meats.
You both lost weight not because of Keto. You simply lost weight due to calorie deficit. Its that simple.
So predictable, when someone has success with a keto WOE a flurry of following post will claim keto had nothing to do with it. For the record keto has nothing to do with my 22 pound loss and it was effortless with no calorie counting.
You can find people who have had weight loss success without calorie counting with the cabbage soup diet, the military diet, and breatharianism. That doesn't mean any of those diets have special weight loss effects beyond a calorie deficit.
Wasn't implying magic but if someone finds a way of eating that offers them success over another then it is a win in my book. Yes there will be a deficit but some find their path to deficit takes a different road to get there.
Here's the semantics I think we're missing (or digging our heels in about?)...
Keto doesn't offer benefits over CICO. It *may* offer benefits over calorie counting. That's an important distinction - CICO is NOT the same as calorie counting.
Previously, you counted calories, lost weight, then regained it. Calorie counting failed for you in that instance. Now, you're doing keto, which is working. Only time will tell if it works long term.
But in both situations, CICO is "working" as evidenced by the weight changes.
I think comparing calorie counting to keto is like comparing apples to trombones.
You can still count calories and do keto, you know?
The reason some people don't find the need to count calories on keto is because they reach a point of satiation consuming that macro mix that inherently creates a deficit for them.
For people who are on the margins like small, inactive older women who have lower bodyweight goals and messed up satiety triggers, I suspect calorie counting AND keto might need to go hand in hand.
In other words, they aren't mutually exclusive, and I think the other poster comparing his lack of success counting calories on one macro mix and contrasting it to current success on a different macro mix and not comparing like to like is muddying the waters.
Agreed. I think that applies to most if not all of the "diet" plans we see discussed here... at least any plan that is about how or when to eat rather than how much. We see it in the IF threads all the time. Just like with keto, you can IF and still gain/lose/maintain. Some have to keto/IF/whatever AND calorie count to be successful.
Keto is a high-fat diet, and fat is calorie dense (225% the density of protein or carbs). For somebody who doesn't find fat particularly satiating, things could get out of hand very quickly unless they're at least keeping a reasonable idea of how many calories they're consuming.
Now I am hungry.2 -
soufauxgirl wrote: »Some of the posts here read like templates
My thoughts exactly on this topic of labeling & simplifying keto as "good" or "bad"2
This discussion has been closed.
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