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No intimidation "gyms"
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janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »snickerscharlie wrote: »To anyone who may have been living in an advertising wasteland and has missed the fact that PF's marketing campaign negatively targets what they call "lunks" - this one's for you:
https://youtu.be/yhDcjlYrwmQ
PS: No dog in this fight, either. I workout at home. Methinks their "Judgement Free Zone" campaign is merely a watered-down version of the same premise, though.
The narrative of all the PF ads I've seen posted on this thread (versus the ones I see on TV, which focus on low price and 24/7 hours) is
Prospective Customer: My experience or belief about gyms is horrible and absurd thing X. [Lunk alarm is part of anecdote/reminiscene of prospective customer]
PF employee trying to make a sale: That won't happen to you here. We're not a gym.
Not sure what TV you're seeing but all the national ads I've seen are the videos posted here which don't mention cost or hours. There may be some local ads that just focus on price and 24 hours (probably the case as not all PFs are 24/7). The national ads I've seen all start with examples of what PF considers examples stereotyped "lunk" behavior. Next, they show the perspective PF member in an almost confessional tone talking to the PF employee who looks at and talks to them like the employee is a grief counselor.
Not sure what you're trying to imply. I see TV that travels over airwaves licensed to broadcasters. I have been watching TV for many years. I have never seen a PF "lunk alarm" ad. Just ads that focus on prices and 24/7 access. I'm in the U.S., so maybe these national ads you speak of are for some other nation?
Keep in mind, even if you watch a lot of television, it's unlikely that you're watching all shows on all channels at the same time. It's possible that there may be ads that you haven't seen.
I'm aware of that. I just keep getting push back on the idea that in my experience these "lunk alarm" ads are not only not the dominant form of PF advertising, they are so rare that I have not seen them. Maybe the people who see them all the time are watching a lot of live sports or ... reality shows or ... cable TV? Things I don't watch much. Interesting if the first category were the one where PF is disproportionately running those kinds of ads -- I wonder why they would think the demographic they would appeal to would be folks watching live sports ...
Live sports, reality shows, and overall cable TV are a huge part of what people are watching so it makes sense that people don't watch much of them wouldn't have seen the ads.
I can't be sure where I have seen them, but I think it was probably during live sports (most of the TV in my household is either live sports or local news). As to why they would run the ads there, many people watch live sports and the ads don't break down as cleanly as one might think. You seen ads for household cleaners, toys, wine, Old Navy jeans . . . it's not just beer and pizza (not that you were arguing that).
I have never seen them and watch sports almost exclusively, but a lot of the time it is on a DVR delay to avoid commercials, so it is totally possible that I am fast forwarding past PF commercials.
It is interesting if PF targets sports and reality TV shows, because that would seem to be audiences less likely to be intimidated by gyms (generally). That reinforces my belief that pricing and convenience are the real focus of the PF marketing message and that the "no intimidation" angle just draws attention.
It's also possible that PF uses different marketing strategies in different areas of the country.
In either case, if a company is using ads to "draw attention," it's clear that it is a conscious part of their branding even if a portion of their ads don't use that particular approach. I don't think we have to agree that the *majority* of PF's ads are focused on how unpleasant other gyms in order to discuss whether or not we think it's an appropriate message. An unpleasant or inappropriate message isn't somehow erased if some other messages are pleasant or appropriate.
Distinguishing yourself from your competition is Marketing 101. "We don't freeze our beef" "We don't' charge annual fees on our credit cards" "We don't charge for bags on our airline". Etc. There is nothing unpleasant or inappropriate about stating that you don't tolerate intimidation.
My kid's hockey team has a complete list of behaviors that parents and players shall or shall not do, and if you don't agree to abide by these rules, you don't play for this team. Is it unpleasant or inappropriate to clearly outline and enforce acceptable behavior, or is that an affront to the other youth hockey programs that allow parents to scream at the kids, bang on the glass, and verbally abuse refs or the kids to cheapshot other kids?
If the message is "you should play for this team because you will encounter [negative behavior] on the others," I would consider that potentially inappropriate (if it wasn't accurate). Touting your own product is fine. Unfairly dragging other products isn't.
If PF simply stated their rules and guidelines, I don't think this thread would exist. The issue is the picture they paint of other gyms. Keep in mind that in their ads centered on the "no judgement" theme, they aren't showing what is happening in PF. They're actively painting a negative picture of the customers of other gyms.
So if my kid’s hockey team decided to make an instructional video depicting hockey parents (not of a specific team) cartoonishly behaving awfully in order to show what not to do, should all the other hockey teams on our schedule feel offended? If a team we played did that I can't see how I would be offended unless I saw something of myself in that video. If I saw something of myself in that video, then maybe it is time to reevaluate my behavior.
What you are describing is a video attempting to instruct parents of children on your hockey team in appropriate behavior. Do you not see how that is different than an ad directed to the general public?
Providing behavior instructions or guidelines to people who are members of a group is very different than attempting to get people to join a group by telling them what they will encounter if they don't. In the example you have provided, no claims are being made about the behavior of other teams. There is no appeal to fear or a claim that your team is the only place to escape poor behavior.
If PF had a video for new members simply telling them what types of behavior were and were not tolerated in their gyms, I doubt this thread would exist.
As to whether or not you or another person feel offended in a given situation, that's not my decision. Again, none of this conversation is about telling people that they should be offended.
Is the PF ad stating "all other gyms are like this gym we are portraying here, unlike us", or is it similar to the fictitious hockey video which is showing behavior that some parents and ice rinks allow but is not tolerated by this particular program?4 -
Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »snickerscharlie wrote: »To anyone who may have been living in an advertising wasteland and has missed the fact that PF's marketing campaign negatively targets what they call "lunks" - this one's for you:https://youtu.be/yhDcjlYrwmQ
PS: No dog in this fight, either. I workout at home. Methinks their "Judgement Free Zone" campaign is merely a watered-down version of the same premise, though.
The narrative of all the PF ads I've seen posted on this thread (versus the ones I see on TV, which focus on low price and 24/7 hours) is
Prospective Customer: My experience or belief about gyms is horrible and absurd thing X. [Lunk alarm is part of anecdote/reminiscene of prospective customer]
PF employee trying to make a sale: That won't happen to you here. We're not a gym.
Not sure what TV you're seeing but all the national ads I've seen are the videos posted here which don't mention cost or hours. There may be some local ads that just focus on price and 24 hours (probably the case as not all PFs are 24/7). The national ads I've seen all start with examples of what PF considers examples stereotyped "lunk" behavior. Next, they show the perspective PF member in an almost confessional tone talking to the PF employee who looks at and talks to them like the employee is a grief counselor.
Not sure what you're trying to imply. I see TV that travels over airwaves licensed to broadcasters. I have been watching TV for many years. I have never seen a PF "lunk alarm" ad. Just ads that focus on prices and 24/7 access. I'm in the U.S., so maybe these national ads you speak of are for some other nation?
Keep in mind, even if you watch a lot of television, it's unlikely that you're watching all shows on all channels at the same time. It's possible that there may be ads that you haven't seen.
I'm aware of that. I just keep getting push back on the idea that in my experience these "lunk alarm" ads are not only not the dominant form of PF advertising, they are so rare that I have not seen them. Maybe the people who see them all the time are watching a lot of live sports or ... reality shows or ... cable TV? Things I don't watch much. Interesting if the first category were the one where PF is disproportionately running those kinds of ads -- I wonder why they would think the demographic they would appeal to would be folks watching live sports ...
Live sports, reality shows, and overall cable TV are a huge part of what people are watching so it makes sense that people don't watch much of them wouldn't have seen the ads.
I can't be sure where I have seen them, but I think it was probably during live sports (most of the TV in my household is either live sports or local news). As to why they would run the ads there, many people watch live sports and the ads don't break down as cleanly as one might think. You seen ads for household cleaners, toys, wine, Old Navy jeans . . . it's not just beer and pizza (not that you were arguing that).
I have never seen them and watch sports almost exclusively, but a lot of the time it is on a DVR delay to avoid commercials, so it is totally possible that I am fast forwarding past PF commercials.
It is interesting if PF targets sports and reality TV shows, because that would seem to be audiences less likely to be intimidated by gyms (generally). That reinforces my belief that pricing and convenience are the real focus of the PF marketing message and that the "no intimidation" angle just draws attention.
It's also possible that PF uses different marketing strategies in different areas of the country.
In either case, if a company is using ads to "draw attention," it's clear that it is a conscious part of their branding even if a portion of their ads don't use that particular approach. I don't think we have to agree that the *majority* of PF's ads are focused on how unpleasant other gyms in order to discuss whether or not we think it's an appropriate message. An unpleasant or inappropriate message isn't somehow erased if some other messages are pleasant or appropriate.
Distinguishing yourself from your competition is Marketing 101. "We don't freeze our beef" "We don't' charge annual fees on our credit cards" "We don't charge for bags on our airline". Etc. There is nothing unpleasant or inappropriate about stating that you don't tolerate intimidation.
My kid's hockey team has a complete list of behaviors that parents and players shall or shall not do, and if you don't agree to abide by these rules, you don't play for this team. Is it unpleasant or inappropriate to clearly outline and enforce acceptable behavior, or is that an affront to the other youth hockey programs that allow parents to scream at the kids, bang on the glass, and verbally abuse refs or the kids to cheapshot other kids?
If the message is "you should play for this team because you will encounter [negative behavior] on the others," I would consider that potentially inappropriate (if it wasn't accurate). Touting your own product is fine. Unfairly dragging other products isn't.
If PF simply stated their rules and guidelines, I don't think this thread would exist. The issue is the picture they paint of other gyms. Keep in mind that in their ads centered on the "no judgement" theme, they aren't showing what is happening in PF. They're actively painting a negative picture of the customers of other gyms.
So if my kid’s hockey team decided to make an instructional video depicting hockey parents (not of a specific team) cartoonishly behaving awfully in order to show what not to do, should all the other hockey teams on our schedule feel offended? If a team we played did that I can't see how I would be offended unless I saw something of myself in that video. If I saw something of myself in that video, then maybe it is time to reevaluate my behavior.
What you are describing is a video attempting to instruct parents of children on your hockey team in appropriate behavior. Do you not see how that is different than an ad directed to the general public?
Providing behavior instructions or guidelines to people who are members of a group is very different than attempting to get people to join a group by telling them what they will encounter if they don't. In the example you have provided, no claims are being made about the behavior of other teams. There is no appeal to fear or a claim that your team is the only place to escape poor behavior.
If PF had a video for new members simply telling them what types of behavior were and were not tolerated in their gyms, I doubt this thread would exist.
As to whether or not you or another person feel offended in a given situation, that's not my decision. Again, none of this conversation is about telling people that they should be offended.
Is the PF ad stating "all other gyms are like this gym we are portraying here, unlike us", or is it similar to the fictitious hockey video which is showing behavior that some parents and ice rinks allow but is not tolerated by this particular program?
If you don't already understand the distinction between PF's ads attempting to draw new customers by criticizing the customers of other gyms and an instructional video letting people who have already signed up to a hockey league know what behavior is and isn't appropriate, I'm not sure anything I could say would help illustrate the difference.
Even if you don't want to see it, there is a difference between "Come here, otherwise you'll encounter these intimidating and unpleasant people" and "While you're here, here is how we expect you to act."
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Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »snickerscharlie wrote: »To anyone who may have been living in an advertising wasteland and has missed the fact that PF's marketing campaign negatively targets what they call "lunks" - this one's for you:https://youtu.be/yhDcjlYrwmQ
PS: No dog in this fight, either. I workout at home. Methinks their "Judgement Free Zone" campaign is merely a watered-down version of the same premise, though.
The narrative of all the PF ads I've seen posted on this thread (versus the ones I see on TV, which focus on low price and 24/7 hours) is
Prospective Customer: My experience or belief about gyms is horrible and absurd thing X. [Lunk alarm is part of anecdote/reminiscene of prospective customer]
PF employee trying to make a sale: That won't happen to you here. We're not a gym.
Not sure what TV you're seeing but all the national ads I've seen are the videos posted here which don't mention cost or hours. There may be some local ads that just focus on price and 24 hours (probably the case as not all PFs are 24/7). The national ads I've seen all start with examples of what PF considers examples stereotyped "lunk" behavior. Next, they show the perspective PF member in an almost confessional tone talking to the PF employee who looks at and talks to them like the employee is a grief counselor.
Not sure what you're trying to imply. I see TV that travels over airwaves licensed to broadcasters. I have been watching TV for many years. I have never seen a PF "lunk alarm" ad. Just ads that focus on prices and 24/7 access. I'm in the U.S., so maybe these national ads you speak of are for some other nation?
Keep in mind, even if you watch a lot of television, it's unlikely that you're watching all shows on all channels at the same time. It's possible that there may be ads that you haven't seen.
I'm aware of that. I just keep getting push back on the idea that in my experience these "lunk alarm" ads are not only not the dominant form of PF advertising, they are so rare that I have not seen them. Maybe the people who see them all the time are watching a lot of live sports or ... reality shows or ... cable TV? Things I don't watch much. Interesting if the first category were the one where PF is disproportionately running those kinds of ads -- I wonder why they would think the demographic they would appeal to would be folks watching live sports ...
Live sports, reality shows, and overall cable TV are a huge part of what people are watching so it makes sense that people don't watch much of them wouldn't have seen the ads.
I can't be sure where I have seen them, but I think it was probably during live sports (most of the TV in my household is either live sports or local news). As to why they would run the ads there, many people watch live sports and the ads don't break down as cleanly as one might think. You seen ads for household cleaners, toys, wine, Old Navy jeans . . . it's not just beer and pizza (not that you were arguing that).
I have never seen them and watch sports almost exclusively, but a lot of the time it is on a DVR delay to avoid commercials, so it is totally possible that I am fast forwarding past PF commercials.
It is interesting if PF targets sports and reality TV shows, because that would seem to be audiences less likely to be intimidated by gyms (generally). That reinforces my belief that pricing and convenience are the real focus of the PF marketing message and that the "no intimidation" angle just draws attention.
As I mentioned earlier the PF TV ads I see are the exact videos that have been posted in this discussion. There is no mention of pricing and convenience in those.
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Packerjohn wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »snickerscharlie wrote: »To anyone who may have been living in an advertising wasteland and has missed the fact that PF's marketing campaign negatively targets what they call "lunks" - this one's for you:https://youtu.be/yhDcjlYrwmQ
PS: No dog in this fight, either. I workout at home. Methinks their "Judgement Free Zone" campaign is merely a watered-down version of the same premise, though.
The narrative of all the PF ads I've seen posted on this thread (versus the ones I see on TV, which focus on low price and 24/7 hours) is
Prospective Customer: My experience or belief about gyms is horrible and absurd thing X. [Lunk alarm is part of anecdote/reminiscene of prospective customer]
PF employee trying to make a sale: That won't happen to you here. We're not a gym.
Not sure what TV you're seeing but all the national ads I've seen are the videos posted here which don't mention cost or hours. There may be some local ads that just focus on price and 24 hours (probably the case as not all PFs are 24/7). The national ads I've seen all start with examples of what PF considers examples stereotyped "lunk" behavior. Next, they show the perspective PF member in an almost confessional tone talking to the PF employee who looks at and talks to them like the employee is a grief counselor.
Not sure what you're trying to imply. I see TV that travels over airwaves licensed to broadcasters. I have been watching TV for many years. I have never seen a PF "lunk alarm" ad. Just ads that focus on prices and 24/7 access. I'm in the U.S., so maybe these national ads you speak of are for some other nation?
Keep in mind, even if you watch a lot of television, it's unlikely that you're watching all shows on all channels at the same time. It's possible that there may be ads that you haven't seen.
I'm aware of that. I just keep getting push back on the idea that in my experience these "lunk alarm" ads are not only not the dominant form of PF advertising, they are so rare that I have not seen them. Maybe the people who see them all the time are watching a lot of live sports or ... reality shows or ... cable TV? Things I don't watch much. Interesting if the first category were the one where PF is disproportionately running those kinds of ads -- I wonder why they would think the demographic they would appeal to would be folks watching live sports ...
Live sports, reality shows, and overall cable TV are a huge part of what people are watching so it makes sense that people don't watch much of them wouldn't have seen the ads.
I can't be sure where I have seen them, but I think it was probably during live sports (most of the TV in my household is either live sports or local news). As to why they would run the ads there, many people watch live sports and the ads don't break down as cleanly as one might think. You seen ads for household cleaners, toys, wine, Old Navy jeans . . . it's not just beer and pizza (not that you were arguing that).
I have never seen them and watch sports almost exclusively, but a lot of the time it is on a DVR delay to avoid commercials, so it is totally possible that I am fast forwarding past PF commercials.
It is interesting if PF targets sports and reality TV shows, because that would seem to be audiences less likely to be intimidated by gyms (generally). That reinforces my belief that pricing and convenience are the real focus of the PF marketing message and that the "no intimidation" angle just draws attention.
As I mentioned earlier the PF TV ads I see are the exact videos that have been posted in this discussion. There is no mention of pricing and convenience in those.
On the flipside, the internet marketing found on search engine results is almost entirely location, pricing, and convenience. Also, the PF web landing page is almost entirely location, pricing and convenience.janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »snickerscharlie wrote: »To anyone who may have been living in an advertising wasteland and has missed the fact that PF's marketing campaign negatively targets what they call "lunks" - this one's for you:https://youtu.be/yhDcjlYrwmQ
PS: No dog in this fight, either. I workout at home. Methinks their "Judgement Free Zone" campaign is merely a watered-down version of the same premise, though.
The narrative of all the PF ads I've seen posted on this thread (versus the ones I see on TV, which focus on low price and 24/7 hours) is
Prospective Customer: My experience or belief about gyms is horrible and absurd thing X. [Lunk alarm is part of anecdote/reminiscene of prospective customer]
PF employee trying to make a sale: That won't happen to you here. We're not a gym.
Not sure what TV you're seeing but all the national ads I've seen are the videos posted here which don't mention cost or hours. There may be some local ads that just focus on price and 24 hours (probably the case as not all PFs are 24/7). The national ads I've seen all start with examples of what PF considers examples stereotyped "lunk" behavior. Next, they show the perspective PF member in an almost confessional tone talking to the PF employee who looks at and talks to them like the employee is a grief counselor.
Not sure what you're trying to imply. I see TV that travels over airwaves licensed to broadcasters. I have been watching TV for many years. I have never seen a PF "lunk alarm" ad. Just ads that focus on prices and 24/7 access. I'm in the U.S., so maybe these national ads you speak of are for some other nation?
Keep in mind, even if you watch a lot of television, it's unlikely that you're watching all shows on all channels at the same time. It's possible that there may be ads that you haven't seen.
I'm aware of that. I just keep getting push back on the idea that in my experience these "lunk alarm" ads are not only not the dominant form of PF advertising, they are so rare that I have not seen them. Maybe the people who see them all the time are watching a lot of live sports or ... reality shows or ... cable TV? Things I don't watch much. Interesting if the first category were the one where PF is disproportionately running those kinds of ads -- I wonder why they would think the demographic they would appeal to would be folks watching live sports ...
Live sports, reality shows, and overall cable TV are a huge part of what people are watching so it makes sense that people don't watch much of them wouldn't have seen the ads.
I can't be sure where I have seen them, but I think it was probably during live sports (most of the TV in my household is either live sports or local news). As to why they would run the ads there, many people watch live sports and the ads don't break down as cleanly as one might think. You seen ads for household cleaners, toys, wine, Old Navy jeans . . . it's not just beer and pizza (not that you were arguing that).
I have never seen them and watch sports almost exclusively, but a lot of the time it is on a DVR delay to avoid commercials, so it is totally possible that I am fast forwarding past PF commercials.
It is interesting if PF targets sports and reality TV shows, because that would seem to be audiences less likely to be intimidated by gyms (generally). That reinforces my belief that pricing and convenience are the real focus of the PF marketing message and that the "no intimidation" angle just draws attention.
It's also possible that PF uses different marketing strategies in different areas of the country.
In either case, if a company is using ads to "draw attention," it's clear that it is a conscious part of their branding even if a portion of their ads don't use that particular approach. I don't think we have to agree that the *majority* of PF's ads are focused on how unpleasant other gyms in order to discuss whether or not we think it's an appropriate message. An unpleasant or inappropriate message isn't somehow erased if some other messages are pleasant or appropriate.
Distinguishing yourself from your competition is Marketing 101. "We don't freeze our beef" "We don't' charge annual fees on our credit cards" "We don't charge for bags on our airline". Etc. There is nothing unpleasant or inappropriate about stating that you don't tolerate intimidation.
My kid's hockey team has a complete list of behaviors that parents and players shall or shall not do, and if you don't agree to abide by these rules, you don't play for this team. Is it unpleasant or inappropriate to clearly outline and enforce acceptable behavior, or is that an affront to the other youth hockey programs that allow parents to scream at the kids, bang on the glass, and verbally abuse refs or the kids to cheapshot other kids?
If the message is "you should play for this team because you will encounter [negative behavior] on the others," I would consider that potentially inappropriate (if it wasn't accurate). Touting your own product is fine. Unfairly dragging other products isn't.
If PF simply stated their rules and guidelines, I don't think this thread would exist. The issue is the picture they paint of other gyms. Keep in mind that in their ads centered on the "no judgement" theme, they aren't showing what is happening in PF. They're actively painting a negative picture of the customers of other gyms.
So if my kid’s hockey team decided to make an instructional video depicting hockey parents (not of a specific team) cartoonishly behaving awfully in order to show what not to do, should all the other hockey teams on our schedule feel offended? If a team we played did that I can't see how I would be offended unless I saw something of myself in that video. If I saw something of myself in that video, then maybe it is time to reevaluate my behavior.
What you are describing is a video attempting to instruct parents of children on your hockey team in appropriate behavior. Do you not see how that is different than an ad directed to the general public?
Providing behavior instructions or guidelines to people who are members of a group is very different than attempting to get people to join a group by telling them what they will encounter if they don't. In the example you have provided, no claims are being made about the behavior of other teams. There is no appeal to fear or a claim that your team is the only place to escape poor behavior.
If PF had a video for new members simply telling them what types of behavior were and were not tolerated in their gyms, I doubt this thread would exist.
As to whether or not you or another person feel offended in a given situation, that's not my decision. Again, none of this conversation is about telling people that they should be offended.
Is the PF ad stating "all other gyms are like this gym we are portraying here, unlike us", or is it similar to the fictitious hockey video which is showing behavior that some parents and ice rinks allow but is not tolerated by this particular program?
If you don't already understand the distinction between PF's ads attempting to draw new customers by criticizing the customers of other gyms and an instructional video letting people who have already signed up to a hockey league know what behavior is and isn't appropriate, I'm not sure anything I could say would help illustrate the difference.
Even if you don't want to see it, there is a difference between "Come here, otherwise you'll encounter these intimidating and unpleasant people" and "While you're here, here is how we expect you to act."
I just reviewed a Youtube collection of 10+ 30 second PF commercials to see if I was missing something - I don't think I am. It is just a series of parodies of a number of gym stereotypes to differentiate their brand, and the portrayal is so over-the-top silly I'm just struggling to find even a minor amount of controversy in it. I've gone to probably 40+ workout facilities over the years, including PF, community rec centers, Golds/Powerhouse type gyms, military gyms on bases, crossfit boxes, yoga studios and workplace gyms, and I didn't find a single PF parody that I would be offended by and say "OMG they are totally making fun of me and/or my gym!" Not a single one.
Regardless, it has a lot of people talking, so the marketing strategy gets an A+.6 -
Stupidity is a stereotype for what now? And that should be parodied?2
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Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »snickerscharlie wrote: »To anyone who may have been living in an advertising wasteland and has missed the fact that PF's marketing campaign negatively targets what they call "lunks" - this one's for you:https://youtu.be/yhDcjlYrwmQ
PS: No dog in this fight, either. I workout at home. Methinks their "Judgement Free Zone" campaign is merely a watered-down version of the same premise, though.
The narrative of all the PF ads I've seen posted on this thread (versus the ones I see on TV, which focus on low price and 24/7 hours) is
Prospective Customer: My experience or belief about gyms is horrible and absurd thing X. [Lunk alarm is part of anecdote/reminiscene of prospective customer]
PF employee trying to make a sale: That won't happen to you here. We're not a gym.
Not sure what TV you're seeing but all the national ads I've seen are the videos posted here which don't mention cost or hours. There may be some local ads that just focus on price and 24 hours (probably the case as not all PFs are 24/7). The national ads I've seen all start with examples of what PF considers examples stereotyped "lunk" behavior. Next, they show the perspective PF member in an almost confessional tone talking to the PF employee who looks at and talks to them like the employee is a grief counselor.
Not sure what you're trying to imply. I see TV that travels over airwaves licensed to broadcasters. I have been watching TV for many years. I have never seen a PF "lunk alarm" ad. Just ads that focus on prices and 24/7 access. I'm in the U.S., so maybe these national ads you speak of are for some other nation?
Keep in mind, even if you watch a lot of television, it's unlikely that you're watching all shows on all channels at the same time. It's possible that there may be ads that you haven't seen.
I'm aware of that. I just keep getting push back on the idea that in my experience these "lunk alarm" ads are not only not the dominant form of PF advertising, they are so rare that I have not seen them. Maybe the people who see them all the time are watching a lot of live sports or ... reality shows or ... cable TV? Things I don't watch much. Interesting if the first category were the one where PF is disproportionately running those kinds of ads -- I wonder why they would think the demographic they would appeal to would be folks watching live sports ...
Live sports, reality shows, and overall cable TV are a huge part of what people are watching so it makes sense that people don't watch much of them wouldn't have seen the ads.
I can't be sure where I have seen them, but I think it was probably during live sports (most of the TV in my household is either live sports or local news). As to why they would run the ads there, many people watch live sports and the ads don't break down as cleanly as one might think. You seen ads for household cleaners, toys, wine, Old Navy jeans . . . it's not just beer and pizza (not that you were arguing that).
I have never seen them and watch sports almost exclusively, but a lot of the time it is on a DVR delay to avoid commercials, so it is totally possible that I am fast forwarding past PF commercials.
It is interesting if PF targets sports and reality TV shows, because that would seem to be audiences less likely to be intimidated by gyms (generally). That reinforces my belief that pricing and convenience are the real focus of the PF marketing message and that the "no intimidation" angle just draws attention.
As I mentioned earlier the PF TV ads I see are the exact videos that have been posted in this discussion. There is no mention of pricing and convenience in those.
On the flipside, the internet marketing found on search engine results is almost entirely location, pricing, and convenience. Also, the PF web landing page is almost entirely location, pricing and convenience.janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »snickerscharlie wrote: »To anyone who may have been living in an advertising wasteland and has missed the fact that PF's marketing campaign negatively targets what they call "lunks" - this one's for you:https://youtu.be/yhDcjlYrwmQ
PS: No dog in this fight, either. I workout at home. Methinks their "Judgement Free Zone" campaign is merely a watered-down version of the same premise, though.
The narrative of all the PF ads I've seen posted on this thread (versus the ones I see on TV, which focus on low price and 24/7 hours) is
Prospective Customer: My experience or belief about gyms is horrible and absurd thing X. [Lunk alarm is part of anecdote/reminiscene of prospective customer]
PF employee trying to make a sale: That won't happen to you here. We're not a gym.
Not sure what TV you're seeing but all the national ads I've seen are the videos posted here which don't mention cost or hours. There may be some local ads that just focus on price and 24 hours (probably the case as not all PFs are 24/7). The national ads I've seen all start with examples of what PF considers examples stereotyped "lunk" behavior. Next, they show the perspective PF member in an almost confessional tone talking to the PF employee who looks at and talks to them like the employee is a grief counselor.
Not sure what you're trying to imply. I see TV that travels over airwaves licensed to broadcasters. I have been watching TV for many years. I have never seen a PF "lunk alarm" ad. Just ads that focus on prices and 24/7 access. I'm in the U.S., so maybe these national ads you speak of are for some other nation?
Keep in mind, even if you watch a lot of television, it's unlikely that you're watching all shows on all channels at the same time. It's possible that there may be ads that you haven't seen.
I'm aware of that. I just keep getting push back on the idea that in my experience these "lunk alarm" ads are not only not the dominant form of PF advertising, they are so rare that I have not seen them. Maybe the people who see them all the time are watching a lot of live sports or ... reality shows or ... cable TV? Things I don't watch much. Interesting if the first category were the one where PF is disproportionately running those kinds of ads -- I wonder why they would think the demographic they would appeal to would be folks watching live sports ...
Live sports, reality shows, and overall cable TV are a huge part of what people are watching so it makes sense that people don't watch much of them wouldn't have seen the ads.
I can't be sure where I have seen them, but I think it was probably during live sports (most of the TV in my household is either live sports or local news). As to why they would run the ads there, many people watch live sports and the ads don't break down as cleanly as one might think. You seen ads for household cleaners, toys, wine, Old Navy jeans . . . it's not just beer and pizza (not that you were arguing that).
I have never seen them and watch sports almost exclusively, but a lot of the time it is on a DVR delay to avoid commercials, so it is totally possible that I am fast forwarding past PF commercials.
It is interesting if PF targets sports and reality TV shows, because that would seem to be audiences less likely to be intimidated by gyms (generally). That reinforces my belief that pricing and convenience are the real focus of the PF marketing message and that the "no intimidation" angle just draws attention.
It's also possible that PF uses different marketing strategies in different areas of the country.
In either case, if a company is using ads to "draw attention," it's clear that it is a conscious part of their branding even if a portion of their ads don't use that particular approach. I don't think we have to agree that the *majority* of PF's ads are focused on how unpleasant other gyms in order to discuss whether or not we think it's an appropriate message. An unpleasant or inappropriate message isn't somehow erased if some other messages are pleasant or appropriate.
Distinguishing yourself from your competition is Marketing 101. "We don't freeze our beef" "We don't' charge annual fees on our credit cards" "We don't charge for bags on our airline". Etc. There is nothing unpleasant or inappropriate about stating that you don't tolerate intimidation.
My kid's hockey team has a complete list of behaviors that parents and players shall or shall not do, and if you don't agree to abide by these rules, you don't play for this team. Is it unpleasant or inappropriate to clearly outline and enforce acceptable behavior, or is that an affront to the other youth hockey programs that allow parents to scream at the kids, bang on the glass, and verbally abuse refs or the kids to cheapshot other kids?
If the message is "you should play for this team because you will encounter [negative behavior] on the others," I would consider that potentially inappropriate (if it wasn't accurate). Touting your own product is fine. Unfairly dragging other products isn't.
If PF simply stated their rules and guidelines, I don't think this thread would exist. The issue is the picture they paint of other gyms. Keep in mind that in their ads centered on the "no judgement" theme, they aren't showing what is happening in PF. They're actively painting a negative picture of the customers of other gyms.
So if my kid’s hockey team decided to make an instructional video depicting hockey parents (not of a specific team) cartoonishly behaving awfully in order to show what not to do, should all the other hockey teams on our schedule feel offended? If a team we played did that I can't see how I would be offended unless I saw something of myself in that video. If I saw something of myself in that video, then maybe it is time to reevaluate my behavior.
What you are describing is a video attempting to instruct parents of children on your hockey team in appropriate behavior. Do you not see how that is different than an ad directed to the general public?
Providing behavior instructions or guidelines to people who are members of a group is very different than attempting to get people to join a group by telling them what they will encounter if they don't. In the example you have provided, no claims are being made about the behavior of other teams. There is no appeal to fear or a claim that your team is the only place to escape poor behavior.
If PF had a video for new members simply telling them what types of behavior were and were not tolerated in their gyms, I doubt this thread would exist.
As to whether or not you or another person feel offended in a given situation, that's not my decision. Again, none of this conversation is about telling people that they should be offended.
Is the PF ad stating "all other gyms are like this gym we are portraying here, unlike us", or is it similar to the fictitious hockey video which is showing behavior that some parents and ice rinks allow but is not tolerated by this particular program?
If you don't already understand the distinction between PF's ads attempting to draw new customers by criticizing the customers of other gyms and an instructional video letting people who have already signed up to a hockey league know what behavior is and isn't appropriate, I'm not sure anything I could say would help illustrate the difference.
Even if you don't want to see it, there is a difference between "Come here, otherwise you'll encounter these intimidating and unpleasant people" and "While you're here, here is how we expect you to act."
I just reviewed a Youtube collection of 10+ 30 second PF commercials to see if I was missing something - I don't think I am. It is just a series of parodies of a number of gym stereotypes to differentiate their brand, and the portrayal is so over-the-top silly I'm just struggling to find even a minor amount of controversy in it. I've gone to probably 40+ workout facilities over the years, including PF, community rec centers, Golds/Powerhouse type gyms, military gyms on bases, crossfit boxes, yoga studios and workplace gyms, and I didn't find a single PF parody that I would be offended by and say "OMG they are totally making fun of me and/or my gym!" Not a single one.
Regardless, it has a lot of people talking, so the marketing strategy gets an A+.
I think we've clearly established that you think the ad campaign is fine. I'm not sure what that proves. I mean, we know different people have different responses to things already, right?
The point was never "What does an experienced gym goer with no anxieties think about the PF ads?" The point was more like "Could these ads have a negative impact on less experienced people who may be forming their impression of gyms overall based on how PF presents other gyms?" In other words, could PF be driving people away from fitness by creating (false) impressions of what other gyms are like?
You are obviously not in that category, so I'm not seeing how your personal response to the ad campaign is particularly relevant. Is there a reason why your individual response should be the sole measure of how we discuss the overall impact of the campaign?9 -
janejellyroll wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »snickerscharlie wrote: »To anyone who may have been living in an advertising wasteland and has missed the fact that PF's marketing campaign negatively targets what they call "lunks" - this one's for you:https://youtu.be/yhDcjlYrwmQ
PS: No dog in this fight, either. I workout at home. Methinks their "Judgement Free Zone" campaign is merely a watered-down version of the same premise, though.
The narrative of all the PF ads I've seen posted on this thread (versus the ones I see on TV, which focus on low price and 24/7 hours) is
Prospective Customer: My experience or belief about gyms is horrible and absurd thing X. [Lunk alarm is part of anecdote/reminiscene of prospective customer]
PF employee trying to make a sale: That won't happen to you here. We're not a gym.
Not sure what TV you're seeing but all the national ads I've seen are the videos posted here which don't mention cost or hours. There may be some local ads that just focus on price and 24 hours (probably the case as not all PFs are 24/7). The national ads I've seen all start with examples of what PF considers examples stereotyped "lunk" behavior. Next, they show the perspective PF member in an almost confessional tone talking to the PF employee who looks at and talks to them like the employee is a grief counselor.
Not sure what you're trying to imply. I see TV that travels over airwaves licensed to broadcasters. I have been watching TV for many years. I have never seen a PF "lunk alarm" ad. Just ads that focus on prices and 24/7 access. I'm in the U.S., so maybe these national ads you speak of are for some other nation?
Keep in mind, even if you watch a lot of television, it's unlikely that you're watching all shows on all channels at the same time. It's possible that there may be ads that you haven't seen.
I'm aware of that. I just keep getting push back on the idea that in my experience these "lunk alarm" ads are not only not the dominant form of PF advertising, they are so rare that I have not seen them. Maybe the people who see them all the time are watching a lot of live sports or ... reality shows or ... cable TV? Things I don't watch much. Interesting if the first category were the one where PF is disproportionately running those kinds of ads -- I wonder why they would think the demographic they would appeal to would be folks watching live sports ...
Live sports, reality shows, and overall cable TV are a huge part of what people are watching so it makes sense that people don't watch much of them wouldn't have seen the ads.
I can't be sure where I have seen them, but I think it was probably during live sports (most of the TV in my household is either live sports or local news). As to why they would run the ads there, many people watch live sports and the ads don't break down as cleanly as one might think. You seen ads for household cleaners, toys, wine, Old Navy jeans . . . it's not just beer and pizza (not that you were arguing that).
No, I didn't think they were limited to beer and pizza; just thought that running anti-"lunk" ads during sports programming seemed counter-intuitive, like advertising the latest costume drama indie theatrical release during half-time -- probably way overpaying for the segment of the audience that would be receptive to the ads. After all, with those on-field mics these days, anybody intimidated by grunting isn't going to watch an NFL game (not to mention the huge buckets of iced gatorade).0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »snickerscharlie wrote: »To anyone who may have been living in an advertising wasteland and has missed the fact that PF's marketing campaign negatively targets what they call "lunks" - this one's for you:https://youtu.be/yhDcjlYrwmQ
PS: No dog in this fight, either. I workout at home. Methinks their "Judgement Free Zone" campaign is merely a watered-down version of the same premise, though.
The narrative of all the PF ads I've seen posted on this thread (versus the ones I see on TV, which focus on low price and 24/7 hours) is
Prospective Customer: My experience or belief about gyms is horrible and absurd thing X. [Lunk alarm is part of anecdote/reminiscene of prospective customer]
PF employee trying to make a sale: That won't happen to you here. We're not a gym.
Not sure what TV you're seeing but all the national ads I've seen are the videos posted here which don't mention cost or hours. There may be some local ads that just focus on price and 24 hours (probably the case as not all PFs are 24/7). The national ads I've seen all start with examples of what PF considers examples stereotyped "lunk" behavior. Next, they show the perspective PF member in an almost confessional tone talking to the PF employee who looks at and talks to them like the employee is a grief counselor.
Not sure what you're trying to imply. I see TV that travels over airwaves licensed to broadcasters. I have been watching TV for many years. I have never seen a PF "lunk alarm" ad. Just ads that focus on prices and 24/7 access. I'm in the U.S., so maybe these national ads you speak of are for some other nation?
Keep in mind, even if you watch a lot of television, it's unlikely that you're watching all shows on all channels at the same time. It's possible that there may be ads that you haven't seen.
I'm aware of that. I just keep getting push back on the idea that in my experience these "lunk alarm" ads are not only not the dominant form of PF advertising, they are so rare that I have not seen them. Maybe the people who see them all the time are watching a lot of live sports or ... reality shows or ... cable TV? Things I don't watch much. Interesting if the first category were the one where PF is disproportionately running those kinds of ads -- I wonder why they would think the demographic they would appeal to would be folks watching live sports ...
Live sports, reality shows, and overall cable TV are a huge part of what people are watching so it makes sense that people don't watch much of them wouldn't have seen the ads.
I can't be sure where I have seen them, but I think it was probably during live sports (most of the TV in my household is either live sports or local news). As to why they would run the ads there, many people watch live sports and the ads don't break down as cleanly as one might think. You seen ads for household cleaners, toys, wine, Old Navy jeans . . . it's not just beer and pizza (not that you were arguing that).
I have never seen them and watch sports almost exclusively, but a lot of the time it is on a DVR delay to avoid commercials, so it is totally possible that I am fast forwarding past PF commercials.
It is interesting if PF targets sports and reality TV shows, because that would seem to be audiences less likely to be intimidated by gyms (generally). That reinforces my belief that pricing and convenience are the real focus of the PF marketing message and that the "no intimidation" angle just draws attention.
As I mentioned earlier the PF TV ads I see are the exact videos that have been posted in this discussion. There is no mention of pricing and convenience in those.
On the flipside, the internet marketing found on search engine results is almost entirely location, pricing, and convenience. Also, the PF web landing page is almost entirely location, pricing and convenience.janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »snickerscharlie wrote: »To anyone who may have been living in an advertising wasteland and has missed the fact that PF's marketing campaign negatively targets what they call "lunks" - this one's for you:https://youtu.be/yhDcjlYrwmQ
PS: No dog in this fight, either. I workout at home. Methinks their "Judgement Free Zone" campaign is merely a watered-down version of the same premise, though.
The narrative of all the PF ads I've seen posted on this thread (versus the ones I see on TV, which focus on low price and 24/7 hours) is
Prospective Customer: My experience or belief about gyms is horrible and absurd thing X. [Lunk alarm is part of anecdote/reminiscene of prospective customer]
PF employee trying to make a sale: That won't happen to you here. We're not a gym.
Not sure what TV you're seeing but all the national ads I've seen are the videos posted here which don't mention cost or hours. There may be some local ads that just focus on price and 24 hours (probably the case as not all PFs are 24/7). The national ads I've seen all start with examples of what PF considers examples stereotyped "lunk" behavior. Next, they show the perspective PF member in an almost confessional tone talking to the PF employee who looks at and talks to them like the employee is a grief counselor.
Not sure what you're trying to imply. I see TV that travels over airwaves licensed to broadcasters. I have been watching TV for many years. I have never seen a PF "lunk alarm" ad. Just ads that focus on prices and 24/7 access. I'm in the U.S., so maybe these national ads you speak of are for some other nation?
Keep in mind, even if you watch a lot of television, it's unlikely that you're watching all shows on all channels at the same time. It's possible that there may be ads that you haven't seen.
I'm aware of that. I just keep getting push back on the idea that in my experience these "lunk alarm" ads are not only not the dominant form of PF advertising, they are so rare that I have not seen them. Maybe the people who see them all the time are watching a lot of live sports or ... reality shows or ... cable TV? Things I don't watch much. Interesting if the first category were the one where PF is disproportionately running those kinds of ads -- I wonder why they would think the demographic they would appeal to would be folks watching live sports ...
Live sports, reality shows, and overall cable TV are a huge part of what people are watching so it makes sense that people don't watch much of them wouldn't have seen the ads.
I can't be sure where I have seen them, but I think it was probably during live sports (most of the TV in my household is either live sports or local news). As to why they would run the ads there, many people watch live sports and the ads don't break down as cleanly as one might think. You seen ads for household cleaners, toys, wine, Old Navy jeans . . . it's not just beer and pizza (not that you were arguing that).
I have never seen them and watch sports almost exclusively, but a lot of the time it is on a DVR delay to avoid commercials, so it is totally possible that I am fast forwarding past PF commercials.
It is interesting if PF targets sports and reality TV shows, because that would seem to be audiences less likely to be intimidated by gyms (generally). That reinforces my belief that pricing and convenience are the real focus of the PF marketing message and that the "no intimidation" angle just draws attention.
It's also possible that PF uses different marketing strategies in different areas of the country.
In either case, if a company is using ads to "draw attention," it's clear that it is a conscious part of their branding even if a portion of their ads don't use that particular approach. I don't think we have to agree that the *majority* of PF's ads are focused on how unpleasant other gyms in order to discuss whether or not we think it's an appropriate message. An unpleasant or inappropriate message isn't somehow erased if some other messages are pleasant or appropriate.
Distinguishing yourself from your competition is Marketing 101. "We don't freeze our beef" "We don't' charge annual fees on our credit cards" "We don't charge for bags on our airline". Etc. There is nothing unpleasant or inappropriate about stating that you don't tolerate intimidation.
My kid's hockey team has a complete list of behaviors that parents and players shall or shall not do, and if you don't agree to abide by these rules, you don't play for this team. Is it unpleasant or inappropriate to clearly outline and enforce acceptable behavior, or is that an affront to the other youth hockey programs that allow parents to scream at the kids, bang on the glass, and verbally abuse refs or the kids to cheapshot other kids?
If the message is "you should play for this team because you will encounter [negative behavior] on the others," I would consider that potentially inappropriate (if it wasn't accurate). Touting your own product is fine. Unfairly dragging other products isn't.
If PF simply stated their rules and guidelines, I don't think this thread would exist. The issue is the picture they paint of other gyms. Keep in mind that in their ads centered on the "no judgement" theme, they aren't showing what is happening in PF. They're actively painting a negative picture of the customers of other gyms.
So if my kid’s hockey team decided to make an instructional video depicting hockey parents (not of a specific team) cartoonishly behaving awfully in order to show what not to do, should all the other hockey teams on our schedule feel offended? If a team we played did that I can't see how I would be offended unless I saw something of myself in that video. If I saw something of myself in that video, then maybe it is time to reevaluate my behavior.
What you are describing is a video attempting to instruct parents of children on your hockey team in appropriate behavior. Do you not see how that is different than an ad directed to the general public?
Providing behavior instructions or guidelines to people who are members of a group is very different than attempting to get people to join a group by telling them what they will encounter if they don't. In the example you have provided, no claims are being made about the behavior of other teams. There is no appeal to fear or a claim that your team is the only place to escape poor behavior.
If PF had a video for new members simply telling them what types of behavior were and were not tolerated in their gyms, I doubt this thread would exist.
As to whether or not you or another person feel offended in a given situation, that's not my decision. Again, none of this conversation is about telling people that they should be offended.
Is the PF ad stating "all other gyms are like this gym we are portraying here, unlike us", or is it similar to the fictitious hockey video which is showing behavior that some parents and ice rinks allow but is not tolerated by this particular program?
If you don't already understand the distinction between PF's ads attempting to draw new customers by criticizing the customers of other gyms and an instructional video letting people who have already signed up to a hockey league know what behavior is and isn't appropriate, I'm not sure anything I could say would help illustrate the difference.
Even if you don't want to see it, there is a difference between "Come here, otherwise you'll encounter these intimidating and unpleasant people" and "While you're here, here is how we expect you to act."
I just reviewed a Youtube collection of 10+ 30 second PF commercials to see if I was missing something - I don't think I am. It is just a series of parodies of a number of gym stereotypes to differentiate their brand, and the portrayal is so over-the-top silly I'm just struggling to find even a minor amount of controversy in it. I've gone to probably 40+ workout facilities over the years, including PF, community rec centers, Golds/Powerhouse type gyms, military gyms on bases, crossfit boxes, yoga studios and workplace gyms, and I didn't find a single PF parody that I would be offended by and say "OMG they are totally making fun of me and/or my gym!" Not a single one.
Regardless, it has a lot of people talking, so the marketing strategy gets an A+.
I think we've clearly established that you think the ad campaign is fine. I'm not sure what that proves. I mean, we know different people have different responses to things already, right?
The point was never "What does an experienced gym goer with no anxieties think about the PF ads?" The point was more like "Could these ads have a negative impact on less experienced people who may be forming their impression of gyms overall based on how PF presents other gyms?" In other words, could PF be driving people away from fitness by creating (false) impressions of what other gyms are like?
You are obviously not in that category, so I'm not seeing how your personal response to the ad campaign is particularly relevant. Is there a reason why your individual response should be the sole measure of how we discuss the overall impact of the campaign?
We are both sharing our opinions, but your's is more relevant than mine because..?GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Stupidity is a stereotype for what now? And that should be parodied?
These aren't parodies of the mentally impaired, which would be an offensive stereotype, these are parodies of guys who invest a tremendous amount of time in developing their bodies but a minimal amount time developing their minds or etiquette.
By the way, I would be willing to endure being considered stupid if I had the work ethic and the genetics to be a bodybuilder who makes a living eating, going to the gym, and dating fitness models.
10 -
janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »snickerscharlie wrote: »To anyone who may have been living in an advertising wasteland and has missed the fact that PF's marketing campaign negatively targets what they call "lunks" - this one's for you:https://youtu.be/yhDcjlYrwmQ
PS: No dog in this fight, either. I workout at home. Methinks their "Judgement Free Zone" campaign is merely a watered-down version of the same premise, though.
The narrative of all the PF ads I've seen posted on this thread (versus the ones I see on TV, which focus on low price and 24/7 hours) is
Prospective Customer: My experience or belief about gyms is horrible and absurd thing X. [Lunk alarm is part of anecdote/reminiscene of prospective customer]
PF employee trying to make a sale: That won't happen to you here. We're not a gym.
Not sure what TV you're seeing but all the national ads I've seen are the videos posted here which don't mention cost or hours. There may be some local ads that just focus on price and 24 hours (probably the case as not all PFs are 24/7). The national ads I've seen all start with examples of what PF considers examples stereotyped "lunk" behavior. Next, they show the perspective PF member in an almost confessional tone talking to the PF employee who looks at and talks to them like the employee is a grief counselor.
Not sure what you're trying to imply. I see TV that travels over airwaves licensed to broadcasters. I have been watching TV for many years. I have never seen a PF "lunk alarm" ad. Just ads that focus on prices and 24/7 access. I'm in the U.S., so maybe these national ads you speak of are for some other nation?
Keep in mind, even if you watch a lot of television, it's unlikely that you're watching all shows on all channels at the same time. It's possible that there may be ads that you haven't seen.
I'm aware of that. I just keep getting push back on the idea that in my experience these "lunk alarm" ads are not only not the dominant form of PF advertising, they are so rare that I have not seen them. Maybe the people who see them all the time are watching a lot of live sports or ... reality shows or ... cable TV? Things I don't watch much. Interesting if the first category were the one where PF is disproportionately running those kinds of ads -- I wonder why they would think the demographic they would appeal to would be folks watching live sports ...
Live sports, reality shows, and overall cable TV are a huge part of what people are watching so it makes sense that people don't watch much of them wouldn't have seen the ads.
I can't be sure where I have seen them, but I think it was probably during live sports (most of the TV in my household is either live sports or local news). As to why they would run the ads there, many people watch live sports and the ads don't break down as cleanly as one might think. You seen ads for household cleaners, toys, wine, Old Navy jeans . . . it's not just beer and pizza (not that you were arguing that).
I have never seen them and watch sports almost exclusively, but a lot of the time it is on a DVR delay to avoid commercials, so it is totally possible that I am fast forwarding past PF commercials.
It is interesting if PF targets sports and reality TV shows, because that would seem to be audiences less likely to be intimidated by gyms (generally). That reinforces my belief that pricing and convenience are the real focus of the PF marketing message and that the "no intimidation" angle just draws attention.
It's also possible that PF uses different marketing strategies in different areas of the country.
In either case, if a company is using ads to "draw attention," it's clear that it is a conscious part of their branding even if a portion of their ads don't use that particular approach. I don't think we have to agree that the *majority* of PF's ads are focused on how unpleasant other gyms in order to discuss whether or not we think it's an appropriate message. An unpleasant or inappropriate message isn't somehow erased if some other messages are pleasant or appropriate.
Distinguishing yourself from your competition is Marketing 101. "We don't freeze our beef" "We don't' charge annual fees on our credit cards" "We don't charge for bags on our airline". Etc. There is nothing unpleasant or inappropriate about stating that you don't tolerate intimidation.
My kid's hockey team has a complete list of behaviors that parents and players shall or shall not do, and if you don't agree to abide by these rules, you don't play for this team. Is it unpleasant or inappropriate to clearly outline and enforce acceptable behavior, or is that an affront to the other youth hockey programs that allow parents to scream at the kids, bang on the glass, and verbally abuse refs or the kids to cheapshot other kids?
If the message is "you should play for this team because you will encounter [negative behavior] on the others," I would consider that potentially inappropriate (if it wasn't accurate). Touting your own product is fine. Unfairly dragging other products isn't.
If PF simply stated their rules and guidelines, I don't think this thread would exist. The issue is the picture they paint of other gyms. Keep in mind that in their ads centered on the "no judgement" theme, they aren't showing what is happening in PF. They're actively painting a negative picture of the customers of other gyms.
Those ads could just as easily (in my opinion, more easily) be interpreted as gently mocking the perceptions of the demographic they're appealing to, since in all the ads I've seen posted here, the negative things that are supposed to be happening in other gyms are posited as the "recollections" or imaginations of prospective customers -- they begin with generally absurd scenarios, then cut to the customer who was "remembering" or imagining this, who says "that's why I don't like gyms." That line makes zero sense unless the preposterous scenarios at other gyms are a story that the prospective customer is telling the PF sales agent. Yet the scenarios are so over the top that no one can be expected to believe they really happened. Everyone must recognize that people are not being involuntarily elevated into dome-style cage matches. This is satire about the fears and concerns of people who "don't like gyms." It's weird that satirizing someone's fears and concerns is viewed as creating, feeding, and encouraging those fears and concerns.4 -
Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »snickerscharlie wrote: »To anyone who may have been living in an advertising wasteland and has missed the fact that PF's marketing campaign negatively targets what they call "lunks" - this one's for you:https://youtu.be/yhDcjlYrwmQ
PS: No dog in this fight, either. I workout at home. Methinks their "Judgement Free Zone" campaign is merely a watered-down version of the same premise, though.
The narrative of all the PF ads I've seen posted on this thread (versus the ones I see on TV, which focus on low price and 24/7 hours) is
Prospective Customer: My experience or belief about gyms is horrible and absurd thing X. [Lunk alarm is part of anecdote/reminiscene of prospective customer]
PF employee trying to make a sale: That won't happen to you here. We're not a gym.
Not sure what TV you're seeing but all the national ads I've seen are the videos posted here which don't mention cost or hours. There may be some local ads that just focus on price and 24 hours (probably the case as not all PFs are 24/7). The national ads I've seen all start with examples of what PF considers examples stereotyped "lunk" behavior. Next, they show the perspective PF member in an almost confessional tone talking to the PF employee who looks at and talks to them like the employee is a grief counselor.
Not sure what you're trying to imply. I see TV that travels over airwaves licensed to broadcasters. I have been watching TV for many years. I have never seen a PF "lunk alarm" ad. Just ads that focus on prices and 24/7 access. I'm in the U.S., so maybe these national ads you speak of are for some other nation?
Keep in mind, even if you watch a lot of television, it's unlikely that you're watching all shows on all channels at the same time. It's possible that there may be ads that you haven't seen.
I'm aware of that. I just keep getting push back on the idea that in my experience these "lunk alarm" ads are not only not the dominant form of PF advertising, they are so rare that I have not seen them. Maybe the people who see them all the time are watching a lot of live sports or ... reality shows or ... cable TV? Things I don't watch much. Interesting if the first category were the one where PF is disproportionately running those kinds of ads -- I wonder why they would think the demographic they would appeal to would be folks watching live sports ...
Live sports, reality shows, and overall cable TV are a huge part of what people are watching so it makes sense that people don't watch much of them wouldn't have seen the ads.
I can't be sure where I have seen them, but I think it was probably during live sports (most of the TV in my household is either live sports or local news). As to why they would run the ads there, many people watch live sports and the ads don't break down as cleanly as one might think. You seen ads for household cleaners, toys, wine, Old Navy jeans . . . it's not just beer and pizza (not that you were arguing that).
I have never seen them and watch sports almost exclusively, but a lot of the time it is on a DVR delay to avoid commercials, so it is totally possible that I am fast forwarding past PF commercials.
It is interesting if PF targets sports and reality TV shows, because that would seem to be audiences less likely to be intimidated by gyms (generally). That reinforces my belief that pricing and convenience are the real focus of the PF marketing message and that the "no intimidation" angle just draws attention.
As I mentioned earlier the PF TV ads I see are the exact videos that have been posted in this discussion. There is no mention of pricing and convenience in those.
On the flipside, the internet marketing found on search engine results is almost entirely location, pricing, and convenience. Also, the PF web landing page is almost entirely location, pricing and convenience.janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »snickerscharlie wrote: »To anyone who may have been living in an advertising wasteland and has missed the fact that PF's marketing campaign negatively targets what they call "lunks" - this one's for you:https://youtu.be/yhDcjlYrwmQ
PS: No dog in this fight, either. I workout at home. Methinks their "Judgement Free Zone" campaign is merely a watered-down version of the same premise, though.
The narrative of all the PF ads I've seen posted on this thread (versus the ones I see on TV, which focus on low price and 24/7 hours) is
Prospective Customer: My experience or belief about gyms is horrible and absurd thing X. [Lunk alarm is part of anecdote/reminiscene of prospective customer]
PF employee trying to make a sale: That won't happen to you here. We're not a gym.
Not sure what TV you're seeing but all the national ads I've seen are the videos posted here which don't mention cost or hours. There may be some local ads that just focus on price and 24 hours (probably the case as not all PFs are 24/7). The national ads I've seen all start with examples of what PF considers examples stereotyped "lunk" behavior. Next, they show the perspective PF member in an almost confessional tone talking to the PF employee who looks at and talks to them like the employee is a grief counselor.
Not sure what you're trying to imply. I see TV that travels over airwaves licensed to broadcasters. I have been watching TV for many years. I have never seen a PF "lunk alarm" ad. Just ads that focus on prices and 24/7 access. I'm in the U.S., so maybe these national ads you speak of are for some other nation?
Keep in mind, even if you watch a lot of television, it's unlikely that you're watching all shows on all channels at the same time. It's possible that there may be ads that you haven't seen.
I'm aware of that. I just keep getting push back on the idea that in my experience these "lunk alarm" ads are not only not the dominant form of PF advertising, they are so rare that I have not seen them. Maybe the people who see them all the time are watching a lot of live sports or ... reality shows or ... cable TV? Things I don't watch much. Interesting if the first category were the one where PF is disproportionately running those kinds of ads -- I wonder why they would think the demographic they would appeal to would be folks watching live sports ...
Live sports, reality shows, and overall cable TV are a huge part of what people are watching so it makes sense that people don't watch much of them wouldn't have seen the ads.
I can't be sure where I have seen them, but I think it was probably during live sports (most of the TV in my household is either live sports or local news). As to why they would run the ads there, many people watch live sports and the ads don't break down as cleanly as one might think. You seen ads for household cleaners, toys, wine, Old Navy jeans . . . it's not just beer and pizza (not that you were arguing that).
I have never seen them and watch sports almost exclusively, but a lot of the time it is on a DVR delay to avoid commercials, so it is totally possible that I am fast forwarding past PF commercials.
It is interesting if PF targets sports and reality TV shows, because that would seem to be audiences less likely to be intimidated by gyms (generally). That reinforces my belief that pricing and convenience are the real focus of the PF marketing message and that the "no intimidation" angle just draws attention.
It's also possible that PF uses different marketing strategies in different areas of the country.
In either case, if a company is using ads to "draw attention," it's clear that it is a conscious part of their branding even if a portion of their ads don't use that particular approach. I don't think we have to agree that the *majority* of PF's ads are focused on how unpleasant other gyms in order to discuss whether or not we think it's an appropriate message. An unpleasant or inappropriate message isn't somehow erased if some other messages are pleasant or appropriate.
Distinguishing yourself from your competition is Marketing 101. "We don't freeze our beef" "We don't' charge annual fees on our credit cards" "We don't charge for bags on our airline". Etc. There is nothing unpleasant or inappropriate about stating that you don't tolerate intimidation.
My kid's hockey team has a complete list of behaviors that parents and players shall or shall not do, and if you don't agree to abide by these rules, you don't play for this team. Is it unpleasant or inappropriate to clearly outline and enforce acceptable behavior, or is that an affront to the other youth hockey programs that allow parents to scream at the kids, bang on the glass, and verbally abuse refs or the kids to cheapshot other kids?
If the message is "you should play for this team because you will encounter [negative behavior] on the others," I would consider that potentially inappropriate (if it wasn't accurate). Touting your own product is fine. Unfairly dragging other products isn't.
If PF simply stated their rules and guidelines, I don't think this thread would exist. The issue is the picture they paint of other gyms. Keep in mind that in their ads centered on the "no judgement" theme, they aren't showing what is happening in PF. They're actively painting a negative picture of the customers of other gyms.
So if my kid’s hockey team decided to make an instructional video depicting hockey parents (not of a specific team) cartoonishly behaving awfully in order to show what not to do, should all the other hockey teams on our schedule feel offended? If a team we played did that I can't see how I would be offended unless I saw something of myself in that video. If I saw something of myself in that video, then maybe it is time to reevaluate my behavior.
What you are describing is a video attempting to instruct parents of children on your hockey team in appropriate behavior. Do you not see how that is different than an ad directed to the general public?
Providing behavior instructions or guidelines to people who are members of a group is very different than attempting to get people to join a group by telling them what they will encounter if they don't. In the example you have provided, no claims are being made about the behavior of other teams. There is no appeal to fear or a claim that your team is the only place to escape poor behavior.
If PF had a video for new members simply telling them what types of behavior were and were not tolerated in their gyms, I doubt this thread would exist.
As to whether or not you or another person feel offended in a given situation, that's not my decision. Again, none of this conversation is about telling people that they should be offended.
Is the PF ad stating "all other gyms are like this gym we are portraying here, unlike us", or is it similar to the fictitious hockey video which is showing behavior that some parents and ice rinks allow but is not tolerated by this particular program?
If you don't already understand the distinction between PF's ads attempting to draw new customers by criticizing the customers of other gyms and an instructional video letting people who have already signed up to a hockey league know what behavior is and isn't appropriate, I'm not sure anything I could say would help illustrate the difference.
Even if you don't want to see it, there is a difference between "Come here, otherwise you'll encounter these intimidating and unpleasant people" and "While you're here, here is how we expect you to act."
I just reviewed a Youtube collection of 10+ 30 second PF commercials to see if I was missing something - I don't think I am. It is just a series of parodies of a number of gym stereotypes to differentiate their brand, and the portrayal is so over-the-top silly I'm just struggling to find even a minor amount of controversy in it. I've gone to probably 40+ workout facilities over the years, including PF, community rec centers, Golds/Powerhouse type gyms, military gyms on bases, crossfit boxes, yoga studios and workplace gyms, and I didn't find a single PF parody that I would be offended by and say "OMG they are totally making fun of me and/or my gym!" Not a single one.
Regardless, it has a lot of people talking, so the marketing strategy gets an A+.
I think we've clearly established that you think the ad campaign is fine. I'm not sure what that proves. I mean, we know different people have different responses to things already, right?
The point was never "What does an experienced gym goer with no anxieties think about the PF ads?" The point was more like "Could these ads have a negative impact on less experienced people who may be forming their impression of gyms overall based on how PF presents other gyms?" In other words, could PF be driving people away from fitness by creating (false) impressions of what other gyms are like?
You are obviously not in that category, so I'm not seeing how your personal response to the ad campaign is particularly relevant. Is there a reason why your individual response should be the sole measure of how we discuss the overall impact of the campaign?GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Stupidity is a stereotype for what now? And that should be parodied?
These aren't parodies of the mentally impaired, which would be an offensive stereotype, these are parodies of guys who invest a tremendous amount of time in developing their bodies but a minimal amount time developing their minds or etiquette.
By the way, I would be willing to endure being considered stupid if I had the work ethic and the genetics to be a bodybuilder who makes a living eating, going to the gym, and dating fitness models.
It implies that intellectual pursuits and bodybuilding are mutually exclusive, and you seem to believe this to be the case as well. Unreal.
6 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »snickerscharlie wrote: »To anyone who may have been living in an advertising wasteland and has missed the fact that PF's marketing campaign negatively targets what they call "lunks" - this one's for you:https://youtu.be/yhDcjlYrwmQ
PS: No dog in this fight, either. I workout at home. Methinks their "Judgement Free Zone" campaign is merely a watered-down version of the same premise, though.
The narrative of all the PF ads I've seen posted on this thread (versus the ones I see on TV, which focus on low price and 24/7 hours) is
Prospective Customer: My experience or belief about gyms is horrible and absurd thing X. [Lunk alarm is part of anecdote/reminiscene of prospective customer]
PF employee trying to make a sale: That won't happen to you here. We're not a gym.
Not sure what TV you're seeing but all the national ads I've seen are the videos posted here which don't mention cost or hours. There may be some local ads that just focus on price and 24 hours (probably the case as not all PFs are 24/7). The national ads I've seen all start with examples of what PF considers examples stereotyped "lunk" behavior. Next, they show the perspective PF member in an almost confessional tone talking to the PF employee who looks at and talks to them like the employee is a grief counselor.
Not sure what you're trying to imply. I see TV that travels over airwaves licensed to broadcasters. I have been watching TV for many years. I have never seen a PF "lunk alarm" ad. Just ads that focus on prices and 24/7 access. I'm in the U.S., so maybe these national ads you speak of are for some other nation?
Keep in mind, even if you watch a lot of television, it's unlikely that you're watching all shows on all channels at the same time. It's possible that there may be ads that you haven't seen.
I'm aware of that. I just keep getting push back on the idea that in my experience these "lunk alarm" ads are not only not the dominant form of PF advertising, they are so rare that I have not seen them. Maybe the people who see them all the time are watching a lot of live sports or ... reality shows or ... cable TV? Things I don't watch much. Interesting if the first category were the one where PF is disproportionately running those kinds of ads -- I wonder why they would think the demographic they would appeal to would be folks watching live sports ...
Live sports, reality shows, and overall cable TV are a huge part of what people are watching so it makes sense that people don't watch much of them wouldn't have seen the ads.
I can't be sure where I have seen them, but I think it was probably during live sports (most of the TV in my household is either live sports or local news). As to why they would run the ads there, many people watch live sports and the ads don't break down as cleanly as one might think. You seen ads for household cleaners, toys, wine, Old Navy jeans . . . it's not just beer and pizza (not that you were arguing that).
I have never seen them and watch sports almost exclusively, but a lot of the time it is on a DVR delay to avoid commercials, so it is totally possible that I am fast forwarding past PF commercials.
It is interesting if PF targets sports and reality TV shows, because that would seem to be audiences less likely to be intimidated by gyms (generally). That reinforces my belief that pricing and convenience are the real focus of the PF marketing message and that the "no intimidation" angle just draws attention.
As I mentioned earlier the PF TV ads I see are the exact videos that have been posted in this discussion. There is no mention of pricing and convenience in those.
On the flipside, the internet marketing found on search engine results is almost entirely location, pricing, and convenience. Also, the PF web landing page is almost entirely location, pricing and convenience.janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »snickerscharlie wrote: »To anyone who may have been living in an advertising wasteland and has missed the fact that PF's marketing campaign negatively targets what they call "lunks" - this one's for you:https://youtu.be/yhDcjlYrwmQ
PS: No dog in this fight, either. I workout at home. Methinks their "Judgement Free Zone" campaign is merely a watered-down version of the same premise, though.
The narrative of all the PF ads I've seen posted on this thread (versus the ones I see on TV, which focus on low price and 24/7 hours) is
Prospective Customer: My experience or belief about gyms is horrible and absurd thing X. [Lunk alarm is part of anecdote/reminiscene of prospective customer]
PF employee trying to make a sale: That won't happen to you here. We're not a gym.
Not sure what TV you're seeing but all the national ads I've seen are the videos posted here which don't mention cost or hours. There may be some local ads that just focus on price and 24 hours (probably the case as not all PFs are 24/7). The national ads I've seen all start with examples of what PF considers examples stereotyped "lunk" behavior. Next, they show the perspective PF member in an almost confessional tone talking to the PF employee who looks at and talks to them like the employee is a grief counselor.
Not sure what you're trying to imply. I see TV that travels over airwaves licensed to broadcasters. I have been watching TV for many years. I have never seen a PF "lunk alarm" ad. Just ads that focus on prices and 24/7 access. I'm in the U.S., so maybe these national ads you speak of are for some other nation?
Keep in mind, even if you watch a lot of television, it's unlikely that you're watching all shows on all channels at the same time. It's possible that there may be ads that you haven't seen.
I'm aware of that. I just keep getting push back on the idea that in my experience these "lunk alarm" ads are not only not the dominant form of PF advertising, they are so rare that I have not seen them. Maybe the people who see them all the time are watching a lot of live sports or ... reality shows or ... cable TV? Things I don't watch much. Interesting if the first category were the one where PF is disproportionately running those kinds of ads -- I wonder why they would think the demographic they would appeal to would be folks watching live sports ...
Live sports, reality shows, and overall cable TV are a huge part of what people are watching so it makes sense that people don't watch much of them wouldn't have seen the ads.
I can't be sure where I have seen them, but I think it was probably during live sports (most of the TV in my household is either live sports or local news). As to why they would run the ads there, many people watch live sports and the ads don't break down as cleanly as one might think. You seen ads for household cleaners, toys, wine, Old Navy jeans . . . it's not just beer and pizza (not that you were arguing that).
I have never seen them and watch sports almost exclusively, but a lot of the time it is on a DVR delay to avoid commercials, so it is totally possible that I am fast forwarding past PF commercials.
It is interesting if PF targets sports and reality TV shows, because that would seem to be audiences less likely to be intimidated by gyms (generally). That reinforces my belief that pricing and convenience are the real focus of the PF marketing message and that the "no intimidation" angle just draws attention.
It's also possible that PF uses different marketing strategies in different areas of the country.
In either case, if a company is using ads to "draw attention," it's clear that it is a conscious part of their branding even if a portion of their ads don't use that particular approach. I don't think we have to agree that the *majority* of PF's ads are focused on how unpleasant other gyms in order to discuss whether or not we think it's an appropriate message. An unpleasant or inappropriate message isn't somehow erased if some other messages are pleasant or appropriate.
Distinguishing yourself from your competition is Marketing 101. "We don't freeze our beef" "We don't' charge annual fees on our credit cards" "We don't charge for bags on our airline". Etc. There is nothing unpleasant or inappropriate about stating that you don't tolerate intimidation.
My kid's hockey team has a complete list of behaviors that parents and players shall or shall not do, and if you don't agree to abide by these rules, you don't play for this team. Is it unpleasant or inappropriate to clearly outline and enforce acceptable behavior, or is that an affront to the other youth hockey programs that allow parents to scream at the kids, bang on the glass, and verbally abuse refs or the kids to cheapshot other kids?
If the message is "you should play for this team because you will encounter [negative behavior] on the others," I would consider that potentially inappropriate (if it wasn't accurate). Touting your own product is fine. Unfairly dragging other products isn't.
If PF simply stated their rules and guidelines, I don't think this thread would exist. The issue is the picture they paint of other gyms. Keep in mind that in their ads centered on the "no judgement" theme, they aren't showing what is happening in PF. They're actively painting a negative picture of the customers of other gyms.
So if my kid’s hockey team decided to make an instructional video depicting hockey parents (not of a specific team) cartoonishly behaving awfully in order to show what not to do, should all the other hockey teams on our schedule feel offended? If a team we played did that I can't see how I would be offended unless I saw something of myself in that video. If I saw something of myself in that video, then maybe it is time to reevaluate my behavior.
What you are describing is a video attempting to instruct parents of children on your hockey team in appropriate behavior. Do you not see how that is different than an ad directed to the general public?
Providing behavior instructions or guidelines to people who are members of a group is very different than attempting to get people to join a group by telling them what they will encounter if they don't. In the example you have provided, no claims are being made about the behavior of other teams. There is no appeal to fear or a claim that your team is the only place to escape poor behavior.
If PF had a video for new members simply telling them what types of behavior were and were not tolerated in their gyms, I doubt this thread would exist.
As to whether or not you or another person feel offended in a given situation, that's not my decision. Again, none of this conversation is about telling people that they should be offended.
Is the PF ad stating "all other gyms are like this gym we are portraying here, unlike us", or is it similar to the fictitious hockey video which is showing behavior that some parents and ice rinks allow but is not tolerated by this particular program?
If you don't already understand the distinction between PF's ads attempting to draw new customers by criticizing the customers of other gyms and an instructional video letting people who have already signed up to a hockey league know what behavior is and isn't appropriate, I'm not sure anything I could say would help illustrate the difference.
Even if you don't want to see it, there is a difference between "Come here, otherwise you'll encounter these intimidating and unpleasant people" and "While you're here, here is how we expect you to act."
I just reviewed a Youtube collection of 10+ 30 second PF commercials to see if I was missing something - I don't think I am. It is just a series of parodies of a number of gym stereotypes to differentiate their brand, and the portrayal is so over-the-top silly I'm just struggling to find even a minor amount of controversy in it. I've gone to probably 40+ workout facilities over the years, including PF, community rec centers, Golds/Powerhouse type gyms, military gyms on bases, crossfit boxes, yoga studios and workplace gyms, and I didn't find a single PF parody that I would be offended by and say "OMG they are totally making fun of me and/or my gym!" Not a single one.
Regardless, it has a lot of people talking, so the marketing strategy gets an A+.
I think we've clearly established that you think the ad campaign is fine. I'm not sure what that proves. I mean, we know different people have different responses to things already, right?
The point was never "What does an experienced gym goer with no anxieties think about the PF ads?" The point was more like "Could these ads have a negative impact on less experienced people who may be forming their impression of gyms overall based on how PF presents other gyms?" In other words, could PF be driving people away from fitness by creating (false) impressions of what other gyms are like?
You are obviously not in that category, so I'm not seeing how your personal response to the ad campaign is particularly relevant. Is there a reason why your individual response should be the sole measure of how we discuss the overall impact of the campaign?GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Stupidity is a stereotype for what now? And that should be parodied?
These aren't parodies of the mentally impaired, which would be an offensive stereotype, these are parodies of guys who invest a tremendous amount of time in developing their bodies but a minimal amount time developing their minds or etiquette.
By the way, I would be willing to endure being considered stupid if I had the work ethic and the genetics to be a bodybuilder who makes a living eating, going to the gym, and dating fitness models.
It implies that intellectual pursuits and bodybuilding are mutually exclusive, and you seem to believe this to be the case as well. Unreal.
Stating that this applies to some people is not the same as stating that this applies to all or even most people, you are trying really hard to be offended over a point of view that I don't actually have.4 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »snickerscharlie wrote: »To anyone who may have been living in an advertising wasteland and has missed the fact that PF's marketing campaign negatively targets what they call "lunks" - this one's for you:https://youtu.be/yhDcjlYrwmQ
PS: No dog in this fight, either. I workout at home. Methinks their "Judgement Free Zone" campaign is merely a watered-down version of the same premise, though.
The narrative of all the PF ads I've seen posted on this thread (versus the ones I see on TV, which focus on low price and 24/7 hours) is
Prospective Customer: My experience or belief about gyms is horrible and absurd thing X. [Lunk alarm is part of anecdote/reminiscene of prospective customer]
PF employee trying to make a sale: That won't happen to you here. We're not a gym.
Not sure what TV you're seeing but all the national ads I've seen are the videos posted here which don't mention cost or hours. There may be some local ads that just focus on price and 24 hours (probably the case as not all PFs are 24/7). The national ads I've seen all start with examples of what PF considers examples stereotyped "lunk" behavior. Next, they show the perspective PF member in an almost confessional tone talking to the PF employee who looks at and talks to them like the employee is a grief counselor.
Not sure what you're trying to imply. I see TV that travels over airwaves licensed to broadcasters. I have been watching TV for many years. I have never seen a PF "lunk alarm" ad. Just ads that focus on prices and 24/7 access. I'm in the U.S., so maybe these national ads you speak of are for some other nation?
Keep in mind, even if you watch a lot of television, it's unlikely that you're watching all shows on all channels at the same time. It's possible that there may be ads that you haven't seen.
I'm aware of that. I just keep getting push back on the idea that in my experience these "lunk alarm" ads are not only not the dominant form of PF advertising, they are so rare that I have not seen them. Maybe the people who see them all the time are watching a lot of live sports or ... reality shows or ... cable TV? Things I don't watch much. Interesting if the first category were the one where PF is disproportionately running those kinds of ads -- I wonder why they would think the demographic they would appeal to would be folks watching live sports ...
Live sports, reality shows, and overall cable TV are a huge part of what people are watching so it makes sense that people don't watch much of them wouldn't have seen the ads.
I can't be sure where I have seen them, but I think it was probably during live sports (most of the TV in my household is either live sports or local news). As to why they would run the ads there, many people watch live sports and the ads don't break down as cleanly as one might think. You seen ads for household cleaners, toys, wine, Old Navy jeans . . . it's not just beer and pizza (not that you were arguing that).
No, I didn't think they were limited to beer and pizza; just thought that running anti-"lunk" ads during sports programming seemed counter-intuitive, like advertising the latest costume drama indie theatrical release during half-time -- probably way overpaying for the segment of the audience that would be receptive to the ads. After all, with those on-field mics these days, anybody intimidated by grunting isn't going to watch an NFL game (not to mention the huge buckets of iced gatorade).
Given obesity statistics and ratings for major sports, I would theorize that many people watching sports on television aren't regularly exercising. They might well fall into the category of people PF is attempting to target -- those who are interesting in getting fit but feel unfamiliar with the process or intimidated by the type of people they feel they may encounter.4 -
Just going to drop this here. The trolling of these type of gyms over their "lunk alarm" is at least good for a laugh. I personally won't use a place like that but if a person is a step healthier in their life by spending time there that is a good thing. I just don't get the whole Pizza deal.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=nLa64nVCXvc2 -
Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »snickerscharlie wrote: »To anyone who may have been living in an advertising wasteland and has missed the fact that PF's marketing campaign negatively targets what they call "lunks" - this one's for you:https://youtu.be/yhDcjlYrwmQ
PS: No dog in this fight, either. I workout at home. Methinks their "Judgement Free Zone" campaign is merely a watered-down version of the same premise, though.
The narrative of all the PF ads I've seen posted on this thread (versus the ones I see on TV, which focus on low price and 24/7 hours) is
Prospective Customer: My experience or belief about gyms is horrible and absurd thing X. [Lunk alarm is part of anecdote/reminiscene of prospective customer]
PF employee trying to make a sale: That won't happen to you here. We're not a gym.
Not sure what TV you're seeing but all the national ads I've seen are the videos posted here which don't mention cost or hours. There may be some local ads that just focus on price and 24 hours (probably the case as not all PFs are 24/7). The national ads I've seen all start with examples of what PF considers examples stereotyped "lunk" behavior. Next, they show the perspective PF member in an almost confessional tone talking to the PF employee who looks at and talks to them like the employee is a grief counselor.
Not sure what you're trying to imply. I see TV that travels over airwaves licensed to broadcasters. I have been watching TV for many years. I have never seen a PF "lunk alarm" ad. Just ads that focus on prices and 24/7 access. I'm in the U.S., so maybe these national ads you speak of are for some other nation?
Keep in mind, even if you watch a lot of television, it's unlikely that you're watching all shows on all channels at the same time. It's possible that there may be ads that you haven't seen.
I'm aware of that. I just keep getting push back on the idea that in my experience these "lunk alarm" ads are not only not the dominant form of PF advertising, they are so rare that I have not seen them. Maybe the people who see them all the time are watching a lot of live sports or ... reality shows or ... cable TV? Things I don't watch much. Interesting if the first category were the one where PF is disproportionately running those kinds of ads -- I wonder why they would think the demographic they would appeal to would be folks watching live sports ...
Live sports, reality shows, and overall cable TV are a huge part of what people are watching so it makes sense that people don't watch much of them wouldn't have seen the ads.
I can't be sure where I have seen them, but I think it was probably during live sports (most of the TV in my household is either live sports or local news). As to why they would run the ads there, many people watch live sports and the ads don't break down as cleanly as one might think. You seen ads for household cleaners, toys, wine, Old Navy jeans . . . it's not just beer and pizza (not that you were arguing that).
I have never seen them and watch sports almost exclusively, but a lot of the time it is on a DVR delay to avoid commercials, so it is totally possible that I am fast forwarding past PF commercials.
It is interesting if PF targets sports and reality TV shows, because that would seem to be audiences less likely to be intimidated by gyms (generally). That reinforces my belief that pricing and convenience are the real focus of the PF marketing message and that the "no intimidation" angle just draws attention.
As I mentioned earlier the PF TV ads I see are the exact videos that have been posted in this discussion. There is no mention of pricing and convenience in those.
On the flipside, the internet marketing found on search engine results is almost entirely location, pricing, and convenience. Also, the PF web landing page is almost entirely location, pricing and convenience.janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »snickerscharlie wrote: »To anyone who may have been living in an advertising wasteland and has missed the fact that PF's marketing campaign negatively targets what they call "lunks" - this one's for you:https://youtu.be/yhDcjlYrwmQ
PS: No dog in this fight, either. I workout at home. Methinks their "Judgement Free Zone" campaign is merely a watered-down version of the same premise, though.
The narrative of all the PF ads I've seen posted on this thread (versus the ones I see on TV, which focus on low price and 24/7 hours) is
Prospective Customer: My experience or belief about gyms is horrible and absurd thing X. [Lunk alarm is part of anecdote/reminiscene of prospective customer]
PF employee trying to make a sale: That won't happen to you here. We're not a gym.
Not sure what TV you're seeing but all the national ads I've seen are the videos posted here which don't mention cost or hours. There may be some local ads that just focus on price and 24 hours (probably the case as not all PFs are 24/7). The national ads I've seen all start with examples of what PF considers examples stereotyped "lunk" behavior. Next, they show the perspective PF member in an almost confessional tone talking to the PF employee who looks at and talks to them like the employee is a grief counselor.
Not sure what you're trying to imply. I see TV that travels over airwaves licensed to broadcasters. I have been watching TV for many years. I have never seen a PF "lunk alarm" ad. Just ads that focus on prices and 24/7 access. I'm in the U.S., so maybe these national ads you speak of are for some other nation?
Keep in mind, even if you watch a lot of television, it's unlikely that you're watching all shows on all channels at the same time. It's possible that there may be ads that you haven't seen.
I'm aware of that. I just keep getting push back on the idea that in my experience these "lunk alarm" ads are not only not the dominant form of PF advertising, they are so rare that I have not seen them. Maybe the people who see them all the time are watching a lot of live sports or ... reality shows or ... cable TV? Things I don't watch much. Interesting if the first category were the one where PF is disproportionately running those kinds of ads -- I wonder why they would think the demographic they would appeal to would be folks watching live sports ...
Live sports, reality shows, and overall cable TV are a huge part of what people are watching so it makes sense that people don't watch much of them wouldn't have seen the ads.
I can't be sure where I have seen them, but I think it was probably during live sports (most of the TV in my household is either live sports or local news). As to why they would run the ads there, many people watch live sports and the ads don't break down as cleanly as one might think. You seen ads for household cleaners, toys, wine, Old Navy jeans . . . it's not just beer and pizza (not that you were arguing that).
I have never seen them and watch sports almost exclusively, but a lot of the time it is on a DVR delay to avoid commercials, so it is totally possible that I am fast forwarding past PF commercials.
It is interesting if PF targets sports and reality TV shows, because that would seem to be audiences less likely to be intimidated by gyms (generally). That reinforces my belief that pricing and convenience are the real focus of the PF marketing message and that the "no intimidation" angle just draws attention.
It's also possible that PF uses different marketing strategies in different areas of the country.
In either case, if a company is using ads to "draw attention," it's clear that it is a conscious part of their branding even if a portion of their ads don't use that particular approach. I don't think we have to agree that the *majority* of PF's ads are focused on how unpleasant other gyms in order to discuss whether or not we think it's an appropriate message. An unpleasant or inappropriate message isn't somehow erased if some other messages are pleasant or appropriate.
Distinguishing yourself from your competition is Marketing 101. "We don't freeze our beef" "We don't' charge annual fees on our credit cards" "We don't charge for bags on our airline". Etc. There is nothing unpleasant or inappropriate about stating that you don't tolerate intimidation.
My kid's hockey team has a complete list of behaviors that parents and players shall or shall not do, and if you don't agree to abide by these rules, you don't play for this team. Is it unpleasant or inappropriate to clearly outline and enforce acceptable behavior, or is that an affront to the other youth hockey programs that allow parents to scream at the kids, bang on the glass, and verbally abuse refs or the kids to cheapshot other kids?
If the message is "you should play for this team because you will encounter [negative behavior] on the others," I would consider that potentially inappropriate (if it wasn't accurate). Touting your own product is fine. Unfairly dragging other products isn't.
If PF simply stated their rules and guidelines, I don't think this thread would exist. The issue is the picture they paint of other gyms. Keep in mind that in their ads centered on the "no judgement" theme, they aren't showing what is happening in PF. They're actively painting a negative picture of the customers of other gyms.
So if my kid’s hockey team decided to make an instructional video depicting hockey parents (not of a specific team) cartoonishly behaving awfully in order to show what not to do, should all the other hockey teams on our schedule feel offended? If a team we played did that I can't see how I would be offended unless I saw something of myself in that video. If I saw something of myself in that video, then maybe it is time to reevaluate my behavior.
What you are describing is a video attempting to instruct parents of children on your hockey team in appropriate behavior. Do you not see how that is different than an ad directed to the general public?
Providing behavior instructions or guidelines to people who are members of a group is very different than attempting to get people to join a group by telling them what they will encounter if they don't. In the example you have provided, no claims are being made about the behavior of other teams. There is no appeal to fear or a claim that your team is the only place to escape poor behavior.
If PF had a video for new members simply telling them what types of behavior were and were not tolerated in their gyms, I doubt this thread would exist.
As to whether or not you or another person feel offended in a given situation, that's not my decision. Again, none of this conversation is about telling people that they should be offended.
Is the PF ad stating "all other gyms are like this gym we are portraying here, unlike us", or is it similar to the fictitious hockey video which is showing behavior that some parents and ice rinks allow but is not tolerated by this particular program?
If you don't already understand the distinction between PF's ads attempting to draw new customers by criticizing the customers of other gyms and an instructional video letting people who have already signed up to a hockey league know what behavior is and isn't appropriate, I'm not sure anything I could say would help illustrate the difference.
Even if you don't want to see it, there is a difference between "Come here, otherwise you'll encounter these intimidating and unpleasant people" and "While you're here, here is how we expect you to act."
I just reviewed a Youtube collection of 10+ 30 second PF commercials to see if I was missing something - I don't think I am. It is just a series of parodies of a number of gym stereotypes to differentiate their brand, and the portrayal is so over-the-top silly I'm just struggling to find even a minor amount of controversy in it. I've gone to probably 40+ workout facilities over the years, including PF, community rec centers, Golds/Powerhouse type gyms, military gyms on bases, crossfit boxes, yoga studios and workplace gyms, and I didn't find a single PF parody that I would be offended by and say "OMG they are totally making fun of me and/or my gym!" Not a single one.
Regardless, it has a lot of people talking, so the marketing strategy gets an A+.
I think we've clearly established that you think the ad campaign is fine. I'm not sure what that proves. I mean, we know different people have different responses to things already, right?
The point was never "What does an experienced gym goer with no anxieties think about the PF ads?" The point was more like "Could these ads have a negative impact on less experienced people who may be forming their impression of gyms overall based on how PF presents other gyms?" In other words, could PF be driving people away from fitness by creating (false) impressions of what other gyms are like?
You are obviously not in that category, so I'm not seeing how your personal response to the ad campaign is particularly relevant. Is there a reason why your individual response should be the sole measure of how we discuss the overall impact of the campaign?
We are both sharing our opinions, but your's is more relevant than mine because..?GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Stupidity is a stereotype for what now? And that should be parodied?
These aren't parodies of the mentally impaired, which would be an offensive stereotype, these are parodies of guys who invest a tremendous amount of time in developing their bodies but a minimal amount time developing their minds or etiquette.
By the way, I would be willing to endure being considered stupid if I had the work ethic and the genetics to be a bodybuilder who makes a living eating, going to the gym, and dating fitness models.
When did I say that mine was more relevant? Please don't put words in my mouth.
My personal response to the ad is no more relevant than yours is.
You've consistently attempted to use your personal experience with PF and your personal response to the ads as some sort of relevant data point here. I'm saying that it isn't.
There's a bigger picture here than the PFs you have personally been to, how PF advertises in your area, and what you thought of the dozen or so PF ads you just watched on youtube.4 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »snickerscharlie wrote: »To anyone who may have been living in an advertising wasteland and has missed the fact that PF's marketing campaign negatively targets what they call "lunks" - this one's for you:https://youtu.be/yhDcjlYrwmQ
PS: No dog in this fight, either. I workout at home. Methinks their "Judgement Free Zone" campaign is merely a watered-down version of the same premise, though.
The narrative of all the PF ads I've seen posted on this thread (versus the ones I see on TV, which focus on low price and 24/7 hours) is
Prospective Customer: My experience or belief about gyms is horrible and absurd thing X. [Lunk alarm is part of anecdote/reminiscene of prospective customer]
PF employee trying to make a sale: That won't happen to you here. We're not a gym.
Not sure what TV you're seeing but all the national ads I've seen are the videos posted here which don't mention cost or hours. There may be some local ads that just focus on price and 24 hours (probably the case as not all PFs are 24/7). The national ads I've seen all start with examples of what PF considers examples stereotyped "lunk" behavior. Next, they show the perspective PF member in an almost confessional tone talking to the PF employee who looks at and talks to them like the employee is a grief counselor.
Not sure what you're trying to imply. I see TV that travels over airwaves licensed to broadcasters. I have been watching TV for many years. I have never seen a PF "lunk alarm" ad. Just ads that focus on prices and 24/7 access. I'm in the U.S., so maybe these national ads you speak of are for some other nation?
Keep in mind, even if you watch a lot of television, it's unlikely that you're watching all shows on all channels at the same time. It's possible that there may be ads that you haven't seen.
I'm aware of that. I just keep getting push back on the idea that in my experience these "lunk alarm" ads are not only not the dominant form of PF advertising, they are so rare that I have not seen them. Maybe the people who see them all the time are watching a lot of live sports or ... reality shows or ... cable TV? Things I don't watch much. Interesting if the first category were the one where PF is disproportionately running those kinds of ads -- I wonder why they would think the demographic they would appeal to would be folks watching live sports ...
Live sports, reality shows, and overall cable TV are a huge part of what people are watching so it makes sense that people don't watch much of them wouldn't have seen the ads.
I can't be sure where I have seen them, but I think it was probably during live sports (most of the TV in my household is either live sports or local news). As to why they would run the ads there, many people watch live sports and the ads don't break down as cleanly as one might think. You seen ads for household cleaners, toys, wine, Old Navy jeans . . . it's not just beer and pizza (not that you were arguing that).
I have never seen them and watch sports almost exclusively, but a lot of the time it is on a DVR delay to avoid commercials, so it is totally possible that I am fast forwarding past PF commercials.
It is interesting if PF targets sports and reality TV shows, because that would seem to be audiences less likely to be intimidated by gyms (generally). That reinforces my belief that pricing and convenience are the real focus of the PF marketing message and that the "no intimidation" angle just draws attention.
It's also possible that PF uses different marketing strategies in different areas of the country.
In either case, if a company is using ads to "draw attention," it's clear that it is a conscious part of their branding even if a portion of their ads don't use that particular approach. I don't think we have to agree that the *majority* of PF's ads are focused on how unpleasant other gyms in order to discuss whether or not we think it's an appropriate message. An unpleasant or inappropriate message isn't somehow erased if some other messages are pleasant or appropriate.
Distinguishing yourself from your competition is Marketing 101. "We don't freeze our beef" "We don't' charge annual fees on our credit cards" "We don't charge for bags on our airline". Etc. There is nothing unpleasant or inappropriate about stating that you don't tolerate intimidation.
My kid's hockey team has a complete list of behaviors that parents and players shall or shall not do, and if you don't agree to abide by these rules, you don't play for this team. Is it unpleasant or inappropriate to clearly outline and enforce acceptable behavior, or is that an affront to the other youth hockey programs that allow parents to scream at the kids, bang on the glass, and verbally abuse refs or the kids to cheapshot other kids?
If the message is "you should play for this team because you will encounter [negative behavior] on the others," I would consider that potentially inappropriate (if it wasn't accurate). Touting your own product is fine. Unfairly dragging other products isn't.
If PF simply stated their rules and guidelines, I don't think this thread would exist. The issue is the picture they paint of other gyms. Keep in mind that in their ads centered on the "no judgement" theme, they aren't showing what is happening in PF. They're actively painting a negative picture of the customers of other gyms.
Those ads could just as easily (in my opinion, more easily) be interpreted as gently mocking the perceptions of the demographic they're appealing to, since in all the ads I've seen posted here, the negative things that are supposed to be happening in other gyms are posited as the "recollections" or imaginations of prospective customers -- they begin with generally absurd scenarios, then cut to the customer who was "remembering" or imagining this, who says "that's why I don't like gyms." That line makes zero sense unless the preposterous scenarios at other gyms are a story that the prospective customer is telling the PF sales agent. Yet the scenarios are so over the top that no one can be expected to believe they really happened. Everyone must recognize that people are not being involuntarily elevated into dome-style cage matches. This is satire about the fears and concerns of people who "don't like gyms." It's weird that satirizing someone's fears and concerns is viewed as creating, feeding, and encouraging those fears and concerns.
It certainly would be a twist if all along PF was telling us their prospective customers are to be considered unreliable narrators.3 -
janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »snickerscharlie wrote: »To anyone who may have been living in an advertising wasteland and has missed the fact that PF's marketing campaign negatively targets what they call "lunks" - this one's for you:https://youtu.be/yhDcjlYrwmQ
PS: No dog in this fight, either. I workout at home. Methinks their "Judgement Free Zone" campaign is merely a watered-down version of the same premise, though.
The narrative of all the PF ads I've seen posted on this thread (versus the ones I see on TV, which focus on low price and 24/7 hours) is
Prospective Customer: My experience or belief about gyms is horrible and absurd thing X. [Lunk alarm is part of anecdote/reminiscene of prospective customer]
PF employee trying to make a sale: That won't happen to you here. We're not a gym.
Not sure what TV you're seeing but all the national ads I've seen are the videos posted here which don't mention cost or hours. There may be some local ads that just focus on price and 24 hours (probably the case as not all PFs are 24/7). The national ads I've seen all start with examples of what PF considers examples stereotyped "lunk" behavior. Next, they show the perspective PF member in an almost confessional tone talking to the PF employee who looks at and talks to them like the employee is a grief counselor.
Not sure what you're trying to imply. I see TV that travels over airwaves licensed to broadcasters. I have been watching TV for many years. I have never seen a PF "lunk alarm" ad. Just ads that focus on prices and 24/7 access. I'm in the U.S., so maybe these national ads you speak of are for some other nation?
Keep in mind, even if you watch a lot of television, it's unlikely that you're watching all shows on all channels at the same time. It's possible that there may be ads that you haven't seen.
I'm aware of that. I just keep getting push back on the idea that in my experience these "lunk alarm" ads are not only not the dominant form of PF advertising, they are so rare that I have not seen them. Maybe the people who see them all the time are watching a lot of live sports or ... reality shows or ... cable TV? Things I don't watch much. Interesting if the first category were the one where PF is disproportionately running those kinds of ads -- I wonder why they would think the demographic they would appeal to would be folks watching live sports ...
Live sports, reality shows, and overall cable TV are a huge part of what people are watching so it makes sense that people don't watch much of them wouldn't have seen the ads.
I can't be sure where I have seen them, but I think it was probably during live sports (most of the TV in my household is either live sports or local news). As to why they would run the ads there, many people watch live sports and the ads don't break down as cleanly as one might think. You seen ads for household cleaners, toys, wine, Old Navy jeans . . . it's not just beer and pizza (not that you were arguing that).
I have never seen them and watch sports almost exclusively, but a lot of the time it is on a DVR delay to avoid commercials, so it is totally possible that I am fast forwarding past PF commercials.
It is interesting if PF targets sports and reality TV shows, because that would seem to be audiences less likely to be intimidated by gyms (generally). That reinforces my belief that pricing and convenience are the real focus of the PF marketing message and that the "no intimidation" angle just draws attention.
As I mentioned earlier the PF TV ads I see are the exact videos that have been posted in this discussion. There is no mention of pricing and convenience in those.
On the flipside, the internet marketing found on search engine results is almost entirely location, pricing, and convenience. Also, the PF web landing page is almost entirely location, pricing and convenience.janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »snickerscharlie wrote: »To anyone who may have been living in an advertising wasteland and has missed the fact that PF's marketing campaign negatively targets what they call "lunks" - this one's for you:https://youtu.be/yhDcjlYrwmQ
PS: No dog in this fight, either. I workout at home. Methinks their "Judgement Free Zone" campaign is merely a watered-down version of the same premise, though.
The narrative of all the PF ads I've seen posted on this thread (versus the ones I see on TV, which focus on low price and 24/7 hours) is
Prospective Customer: My experience or belief about gyms is horrible and absurd thing X. [Lunk alarm is part of anecdote/reminiscene of prospective customer]
PF employee trying to make a sale: That won't happen to you here. We're not a gym.
Not sure what TV you're seeing but all the national ads I've seen are the videos posted here which don't mention cost or hours. There may be some local ads that just focus on price and 24 hours (probably the case as not all PFs are 24/7). The national ads I've seen all start with examples of what PF considers examples stereotyped "lunk" behavior. Next, they show the perspective PF member in an almost confessional tone talking to the PF employee who looks at and talks to them like the employee is a grief counselor.
Not sure what you're trying to imply. I see TV that travels over airwaves licensed to broadcasters. I have been watching TV for many years. I have never seen a PF "lunk alarm" ad. Just ads that focus on prices and 24/7 access. I'm in the U.S., so maybe these national ads you speak of are for some other nation?
Keep in mind, even if you watch a lot of television, it's unlikely that you're watching all shows on all channels at the same time. It's possible that there may be ads that you haven't seen.
I'm aware of that. I just keep getting push back on the idea that in my experience these "lunk alarm" ads are not only not the dominant form of PF advertising, they are so rare that I have not seen them. Maybe the people who see them all the time are watching a lot of live sports or ... reality shows or ... cable TV? Things I don't watch much. Interesting if the first category were the one where PF is disproportionately running those kinds of ads -- I wonder why they would think the demographic they would appeal to would be folks watching live sports ...
Live sports, reality shows, and overall cable TV are a huge part of what people are watching so it makes sense that people don't watch much of them wouldn't have seen the ads.
I can't be sure where I have seen them, but I think it was probably during live sports (most of the TV in my household is either live sports or local news). As to why they would run the ads there, many people watch live sports and the ads don't break down as cleanly as one might think. You seen ads for household cleaners, toys, wine, Old Navy jeans . . . it's not just beer and pizza (not that you were arguing that).
I have never seen them and watch sports almost exclusively, but a lot of the time it is on a DVR delay to avoid commercials, so it is totally possible that I am fast forwarding past PF commercials.
It is interesting if PF targets sports and reality TV shows, because that would seem to be audiences less likely to be intimidated by gyms (generally). That reinforces my belief that pricing and convenience are the real focus of the PF marketing message and that the "no intimidation" angle just draws attention.
It's also possible that PF uses different marketing strategies in different areas of the country.
In either case, if a company is using ads to "draw attention," it's clear that it is a conscious part of their branding even if a portion of their ads don't use that particular approach. I don't think we have to agree that the *majority* of PF's ads are focused on how unpleasant other gyms in order to discuss whether or not we think it's an appropriate message. An unpleasant or inappropriate message isn't somehow erased if some other messages are pleasant or appropriate.
Distinguishing yourself from your competition is Marketing 101. "We don't freeze our beef" "We don't' charge annual fees on our credit cards" "We don't charge for bags on our airline". Etc. There is nothing unpleasant or inappropriate about stating that you don't tolerate intimidation.
My kid's hockey team has a complete list of behaviors that parents and players shall or shall not do, and if you don't agree to abide by these rules, you don't play for this team. Is it unpleasant or inappropriate to clearly outline and enforce acceptable behavior, or is that an affront to the other youth hockey programs that allow parents to scream at the kids, bang on the glass, and verbally abuse refs or the kids to cheapshot other kids?
If the message is "you should play for this team because you will encounter [negative behavior] on the others," I would consider that potentially inappropriate (if it wasn't accurate). Touting your own product is fine. Unfairly dragging other products isn't.
If PF simply stated their rules and guidelines, I don't think this thread would exist. The issue is the picture they paint of other gyms. Keep in mind that in their ads centered on the "no judgement" theme, they aren't showing what is happening in PF. They're actively painting a negative picture of the customers of other gyms.
So if my kid’s hockey team decided to make an instructional video depicting hockey parents (not of a specific team) cartoonishly behaving awfully in order to show what not to do, should all the other hockey teams on our schedule feel offended? If a team we played did that I can't see how I would be offended unless I saw something of myself in that video. If I saw something of myself in that video, then maybe it is time to reevaluate my behavior.
What you are describing is a video attempting to instruct parents of children on your hockey team in appropriate behavior. Do you not see how that is different than an ad directed to the general public?
Providing behavior instructions or guidelines to people who are members of a group is very different than attempting to get people to join a group by telling them what they will encounter if they don't. In the example you have provided, no claims are being made about the behavior of other teams. There is no appeal to fear or a claim that your team is the only place to escape poor behavior.
If PF had a video for new members simply telling them what types of behavior were and were not tolerated in their gyms, I doubt this thread would exist.
As to whether or not you or another person feel offended in a given situation, that's not my decision. Again, none of this conversation is about telling people that they should be offended.
Is the PF ad stating "all other gyms are like this gym we are portraying here, unlike us", or is it similar to the fictitious hockey video which is showing behavior that some parents and ice rinks allow but is not tolerated by this particular program?
If you don't already understand the distinction between PF's ads attempting to draw new customers by criticizing the customers of other gyms and an instructional video letting people who have already signed up to a hockey league know what behavior is and isn't appropriate, I'm not sure anything I could say would help illustrate the difference.
Even if you don't want to see it, there is a difference between "Come here, otherwise you'll encounter these intimidating and unpleasant people" and "While you're here, here is how we expect you to act."
I just reviewed a Youtube collection of 10+ 30 second PF commercials to see if I was missing something - I don't think I am. It is just a series of parodies of a number of gym stereotypes to differentiate their brand, and the portrayal is so over-the-top silly I'm just struggling to find even a minor amount of controversy in it. I've gone to probably 40+ workout facilities over the years, including PF, community rec centers, Golds/Powerhouse type gyms, military gyms on bases, crossfit boxes, yoga studios and workplace gyms, and I didn't find a single PF parody that I would be offended by and say "OMG they are totally making fun of me and/or my gym!" Not a single one.
Regardless, it has a lot of people talking, so the marketing strategy gets an A+.
I think we've clearly established that you think the ad campaign is fine. I'm not sure what that proves. I mean, we know different people have different responses to things already, right?
The point was never "What does an experienced gym goer with no anxieties think about the PF ads?" The point was more like "Could these ads have a negative impact on less experienced people who may be forming their impression of gyms overall based on how PF presents other gyms?" In other words, could PF be driving people away from fitness by creating (false) impressions of what other gyms are like?
You are obviously not in that category, so I'm not seeing how your personal response to the ad campaign is particularly relevant. Is there a reason why your individual response should be the sole measure of how we discuss the overall impact of the campaign?
We are both sharing our opinions, but your's is more relevant than mine because..?GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Stupidity is a stereotype for what now? And that should be parodied?
These aren't parodies of the mentally impaired, which would be an offensive stereotype, these are parodies of guys who invest a tremendous amount of time in developing their bodies but a minimal amount time developing their minds or etiquette.
By the way, I would be willing to endure being considered stupid if I had the work ethic and the genetics to be a bodybuilder who makes a living eating, going to the gym, and dating fitness models.
When did I say that mine was more relevant? Please don't put words in my mouth.
My personal response to the ad is no more relevant than yours is.
You've consistently attempted to use your personal experience with PF and your personal response to the ads as some sort of relevant data point here. I'm saying that it isn't.
There's a bigger picture here than the PFs you have personally been to, how PF advertises in your area, and what you thought of the dozen or so PF ads you just watched on youtube.
Okay, I will step back and turn the discussion over to those who have never set foot in a PF but yet will extensively provide their perspective on PF based solely upon watching PF commercials on TV
8 -
Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »snickerscharlie wrote: »To anyone who may have been living in an advertising wasteland and has missed the fact that PF's marketing campaign negatively targets what they call "lunks" - this one's for you:https://youtu.be/yhDcjlYrwmQ
PS: No dog in this fight, either. I workout at home. Methinks their "Judgement Free Zone" campaign is merely a watered-down version of the same premise, though.
The narrative of all the PF ads I've seen posted on this thread (versus the ones I see on TV, which focus on low price and 24/7 hours) is
Prospective Customer: My experience or belief about gyms is horrible and absurd thing X. [Lunk alarm is part of anecdote/reminiscene of prospective customer]
PF employee trying to make a sale: That won't happen to you here. We're not a gym.
Not sure what TV you're seeing but all the national ads I've seen are the videos posted here which don't mention cost or hours. There may be some local ads that just focus on price and 24 hours (probably the case as not all PFs are 24/7). The national ads I've seen all start with examples of what PF considers examples stereotyped "lunk" behavior. Next, they show the perspective PF member in an almost confessional tone talking to the PF employee who looks at and talks to them like the employee is a grief counselor.
Not sure what you're trying to imply. I see TV that travels over airwaves licensed to broadcasters. I have been watching TV for many years. I have never seen a PF "lunk alarm" ad. Just ads that focus on prices and 24/7 access. I'm in the U.S., so maybe these national ads you speak of are for some other nation?
Keep in mind, even if you watch a lot of television, it's unlikely that you're watching all shows on all channels at the same time. It's possible that there may be ads that you haven't seen.
I'm aware of that. I just keep getting push back on the idea that in my experience these "lunk alarm" ads are not only not the dominant form of PF advertising, they are so rare that I have not seen them. Maybe the people who see them all the time are watching a lot of live sports or ... reality shows or ... cable TV? Things I don't watch much. Interesting if the first category were the one where PF is disproportionately running those kinds of ads -- I wonder why they would think the demographic they would appeal to would be folks watching live sports ...
Live sports, reality shows, and overall cable TV are a huge part of what people are watching so it makes sense that people don't watch much of them wouldn't have seen the ads.
I can't be sure where I have seen them, but I think it was probably during live sports (most of the TV in my household is either live sports or local news). As to why they would run the ads there, many people watch live sports and the ads don't break down as cleanly as one might think. You seen ads for household cleaners, toys, wine, Old Navy jeans . . . it's not just beer and pizza (not that you were arguing that).
I have never seen them and watch sports almost exclusively, but a lot of the time it is on a DVR delay to avoid commercials, so it is totally possible that I am fast forwarding past PF commercials.
It is interesting if PF targets sports and reality TV shows, because that would seem to be audiences less likely to be intimidated by gyms (generally). That reinforces my belief that pricing and convenience are the real focus of the PF marketing message and that the "no intimidation" angle just draws attention.
As I mentioned earlier the PF TV ads I see are the exact videos that have been posted in this discussion. There is no mention of pricing and convenience in those.
On the flipside, the internet marketing found on search engine results is almost entirely location, pricing, and convenience. Also, the PF web landing page is almost entirely location, pricing and convenience.janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »snickerscharlie wrote: »To anyone who may have been living in an advertising wasteland and has missed the fact that PF's marketing campaign negatively targets what they call "lunks" - this one's for you:https://youtu.be/yhDcjlYrwmQ
PS: No dog in this fight, either. I workout at home. Methinks their "Judgement Free Zone" campaign is merely a watered-down version of the same premise, though.
The narrative of all the PF ads I've seen posted on this thread (versus the ones I see on TV, which focus on low price and 24/7 hours) is
Prospective Customer: My experience or belief about gyms is horrible and absurd thing X. [Lunk alarm is part of anecdote/reminiscene of prospective customer]
PF employee trying to make a sale: That won't happen to you here. We're not a gym.
Not sure what TV you're seeing but all the national ads I've seen are the videos posted here which don't mention cost or hours. There may be some local ads that just focus on price and 24 hours (probably the case as not all PFs are 24/7). The national ads I've seen all start with examples of what PF considers examples stereotyped "lunk" behavior. Next, they show the perspective PF member in an almost confessional tone talking to the PF employee who looks at and talks to them like the employee is a grief counselor.
Not sure what you're trying to imply. I see TV that travels over airwaves licensed to broadcasters. I have been watching TV for many years. I have never seen a PF "lunk alarm" ad. Just ads that focus on prices and 24/7 access. I'm in the U.S., so maybe these national ads you speak of are for some other nation?
Keep in mind, even if you watch a lot of television, it's unlikely that you're watching all shows on all channels at the same time. It's possible that there may be ads that you haven't seen.
I'm aware of that. I just keep getting push back on the idea that in my experience these "lunk alarm" ads are not only not the dominant form of PF advertising, they are so rare that I have not seen them. Maybe the people who see them all the time are watching a lot of live sports or ... reality shows or ... cable TV? Things I don't watch much. Interesting if the first category were the one where PF is disproportionately running those kinds of ads -- I wonder why they would think the demographic they would appeal to would be folks watching live sports ...
Live sports, reality shows, and overall cable TV are a huge part of what people are watching so it makes sense that people don't watch much of them wouldn't have seen the ads.
I can't be sure where I have seen them, but I think it was probably during live sports (most of the TV in my household is either live sports or local news). As to why they would run the ads there, many people watch live sports and the ads don't break down as cleanly as one might think. You seen ads for household cleaners, toys, wine, Old Navy jeans . . . it's not just beer and pizza (not that you were arguing that).
I have never seen them and watch sports almost exclusively, but a lot of the time it is on a DVR delay to avoid commercials, so it is totally possible that I am fast forwarding past PF commercials.
It is interesting if PF targets sports and reality TV shows, because that would seem to be audiences less likely to be intimidated by gyms (generally). That reinforces my belief that pricing and convenience are the real focus of the PF marketing message and that the "no intimidation" angle just draws attention.
It's also possible that PF uses different marketing strategies in different areas of the country.
In either case, if a company is using ads to "draw attention," it's clear that it is a conscious part of their branding even if a portion of their ads don't use that particular approach. I don't think we have to agree that the *majority* of PF's ads are focused on how unpleasant other gyms in order to discuss whether or not we think it's an appropriate message. An unpleasant or inappropriate message isn't somehow erased if some other messages are pleasant or appropriate.
Distinguishing yourself from your competition is Marketing 101. "We don't freeze our beef" "We don't' charge annual fees on our credit cards" "We don't charge for bags on our airline". Etc. There is nothing unpleasant or inappropriate about stating that you don't tolerate intimidation.
My kid's hockey team has a complete list of behaviors that parents and players shall or shall not do, and if you don't agree to abide by these rules, you don't play for this team. Is it unpleasant or inappropriate to clearly outline and enforce acceptable behavior, or is that an affront to the other youth hockey programs that allow parents to scream at the kids, bang on the glass, and verbally abuse refs or the kids to cheapshot other kids?
If the message is "you should play for this team because you will encounter [negative behavior] on the others," I would consider that potentially inappropriate (if it wasn't accurate). Touting your own product is fine. Unfairly dragging other products isn't.
If PF simply stated their rules and guidelines, I don't think this thread would exist. The issue is the picture they paint of other gyms. Keep in mind that in their ads centered on the "no judgement" theme, they aren't showing what is happening in PF. They're actively painting a negative picture of the customers of other gyms.
So if my kid’s hockey team decided to make an instructional video depicting hockey parents (not of a specific team) cartoonishly behaving awfully in order to show what not to do, should all the other hockey teams on our schedule feel offended? If a team we played did that I can't see how I would be offended unless I saw something of myself in that video. If I saw something of myself in that video, then maybe it is time to reevaluate my behavior.
What you are describing is a video attempting to instruct parents of children on your hockey team in appropriate behavior. Do you not see how that is different than an ad directed to the general public?
Providing behavior instructions or guidelines to people who are members of a group is very different than attempting to get people to join a group by telling them what they will encounter if they don't. In the example you have provided, no claims are being made about the behavior of other teams. There is no appeal to fear or a claim that your team is the only place to escape poor behavior.
If PF had a video for new members simply telling them what types of behavior were and were not tolerated in their gyms, I doubt this thread would exist.
As to whether or not you or another person feel offended in a given situation, that's not my decision. Again, none of this conversation is about telling people that they should be offended.
Is the PF ad stating "all other gyms are like this gym we are portraying here, unlike us", or is it similar to the fictitious hockey video which is showing behavior that some parents and ice rinks allow but is not tolerated by this particular program?
If you don't already understand the distinction between PF's ads attempting to draw new customers by criticizing the customers of other gyms and an instructional video letting people who have already signed up to a hockey league know what behavior is and isn't appropriate, I'm not sure anything I could say would help illustrate the difference.
Even if you don't want to see it, there is a difference between "Come here, otherwise you'll encounter these intimidating and unpleasant people" and "While you're here, here is how we expect you to act."
I just reviewed a Youtube collection of 10+ 30 second PF commercials to see if I was missing something - I don't think I am. It is just a series of parodies of a number of gym stereotypes to differentiate their brand, and the portrayal is so over-the-top silly I'm just struggling to find even a minor amount of controversy in it. I've gone to probably 40+ workout facilities over the years, including PF, community rec centers, Golds/Powerhouse type gyms, military gyms on bases, crossfit boxes, yoga studios and workplace gyms, and I didn't find a single PF parody that I would be offended by and say "OMG they are totally making fun of me and/or my gym!" Not a single one.
Regardless, it has a lot of people talking, so the marketing strategy gets an A+.
I think we've clearly established that you think the ad campaign is fine. I'm not sure what that proves. I mean, we know different people have different responses to things already, right?
The point was never "What does an experienced gym goer with no anxieties think about the PF ads?" The point was more like "Could these ads have a negative impact on less experienced people who may be forming their impression of gyms overall based on how PF presents other gyms?" In other words, could PF be driving people away from fitness by creating (false) impressions of what other gyms are like?
You are obviously not in that category, so I'm not seeing how your personal response to the ad campaign is particularly relevant. Is there a reason why your individual response should be the sole measure of how we discuss the overall impact of the campaign?
We are both sharing our opinions, but your's is more relevant than mine because..?GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Stupidity is a stereotype for what now? And that should be parodied?
These aren't parodies of the mentally impaired, which would be an offensive stereotype, these are parodies of guys who invest a tremendous amount of time in developing their bodies but a minimal amount time developing their minds or etiquette.
By the way, I would be willing to endure being considered stupid if I had the work ethic and the genetics to be a bodybuilder who makes a living eating, going to the gym, and dating fitness models.
When did I say that mine was more relevant? Please don't put words in my mouth.
My personal response to the ad is no more relevant than yours is.
You've consistently attempted to use your personal experience with PF and your personal response to the ads as some sort of relevant data point here. I'm saying that it isn't.
There's a bigger picture here than the PFs you have personally been to, how PF advertises in your area, and what you thought of the dozen or so PF ads you just watched on youtube.
Okay, I will step back and turn the discussion over to those who have never set foot in a PF but yet will extensively provide their perspective on PF based solely upon watching PF commercials on TV
I'd like to think you're operating in good faith here, but it seems like you're determined to put words in my mouth.3 -
Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »snickerscharlie wrote: »To anyone who may have been living in an advertising wasteland and has missed the fact that PF's marketing campaign negatively targets what they call "lunks" - this one's for you:https://youtu.be/yhDcjlYrwmQ
PS: No dog in this fight, either. I workout at home. Methinks their "Judgement Free Zone" campaign is merely a watered-down version of the same premise, though.
The narrative of all the PF ads I've seen posted on this thread (versus the ones I see on TV, which focus on low price and 24/7 hours) is
Prospective Customer: My experience or belief about gyms is horrible and absurd thing X. [Lunk alarm is part of anecdote/reminiscene of prospective customer]
PF employee trying to make a sale: That won't happen to you here. We're not a gym.
Not sure what TV you're seeing but all the national ads I've seen are the videos posted here which don't mention cost or hours. There may be some local ads that just focus on price and 24 hours (probably the case as not all PFs are 24/7). The national ads I've seen all start with examples of what PF considers examples stereotyped "lunk" behavior. Next, they show the perspective PF member in an almost confessional tone talking to the PF employee who looks at and talks to them like the employee is a grief counselor.
Not sure what you're trying to imply. I see TV that travels over airwaves licensed to broadcasters. I have been watching TV for many years. I have never seen a PF "lunk alarm" ad. Just ads that focus on prices and 24/7 access. I'm in the U.S., so maybe these national ads you speak of are for some other nation?
Keep in mind, even if you watch a lot of television, it's unlikely that you're watching all shows on all channels at the same time. It's possible that there may be ads that you haven't seen.
I'm aware of that. I just keep getting push back on the idea that in my experience these "lunk alarm" ads are not only not the dominant form of PF advertising, they are so rare that I have not seen them. Maybe the people who see them all the time are watching a lot of live sports or ... reality shows or ... cable TV? Things I don't watch much. Interesting if the first category were the one where PF is disproportionately running those kinds of ads -- I wonder why they would think the demographic they would appeal to would be folks watching live sports ...
Live sports, reality shows, and overall cable TV are a huge part of what people are watching so it makes sense that people don't watch much of them wouldn't have seen the ads.
I can't be sure where I have seen them, but I think it was probably during live sports (most of the TV in my household is either live sports or local news). As to why they would run the ads there, many people watch live sports and the ads don't break down as cleanly as one might think. You seen ads for household cleaners, toys, wine, Old Navy jeans . . . it's not just beer and pizza (not that you were arguing that).
I have never seen them and watch sports almost exclusively, but a lot of the time it is on a DVR delay to avoid commercials, so it is totally possible that I am fast forwarding past PF commercials.
It is interesting if PF targets sports and reality TV shows, because that would seem to be audiences less likely to be intimidated by gyms (generally). That reinforces my belief that pricing and convenience are the real focus of the PF marketing message and that the "no intimidation" angle just draws attention.
As I mentioned earlier the PF TV ads I see are the exact videos that have been posted in this discussion. There is no mention of pricing and convenience in those.
On the flipside, the internet marketing found on search engine results is almost entirely location, pricing, and convenience. Also, the PF web landing page is almost entirely location, pricing and convenience.janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »snickerscharlie wrote: »To anyone who may have been living in an advertising wasteland and has missed the fact that PF's marketing campaign negatively targets what they call "lunks" - this one's for you:https://youtu.be/yhDcjlYrwmQ
PS: No dog in this fight, either. I workout at home. Methinks their "Judgement Free Zone" campaign is merely a watered-down version of the same premise, though.
The narrative of all the PF ads I've seen posted on this thread (versus the ones I see on TV, which focus on low price and 24/7 hours) is
Prospective Customer: My experience or belief about gyms is horrible and absurd thing X. [Lunk alarm is part of anecdote/reminiscene of prospective customer]
PF employee trying to make a sale: That won't happen to you here. We're not a gym.
Not sure what TV you're seeing but all the national ads I've seen are the videos posted here which don't mention cost or hours. There may be some local ads that just focus on price and 24 hours (probably the case as not all PFs are 24/7). The national ads I've seen all start with examples of what PF considers examples stereotyped "lunk" behavior. Next, they show the perspective PF member in an almost confessional tone talking to the PF employee who looks at and talks to them like the employee is a grief counselor.
Not sure what you're trying to imply. I see TV that travels over airwaves licensed to broadcasters. I have been watching TV for many years. I have never seen a PF "lunk alarm" ad. Just ads that focus on prices and 24/7 access. I'm in the U.S., so maybe these national ads you speak of are for some other nation?
Keep in mind, even if you watch a lot of television, it's unlikely that you're watching all shows on all channels at the same time. It's possible that there may be ads that you haven't seen.
I'm aware of that. I just keep getting push back on the idea that in my experience these "lunk alarm" ads are not only not the dominant form of PF advertising, they are so rare that I have not seen them. Maybe the people who see them all the time are watching a lot of live sports or ... reality shows or ... cable TV? Things I don't watch much. Interesting if the first category were the one where PF is disproportionately running those kinds of ads -- I wonder why they would think the demographic they would appeal to would be folks watching live sports ...
Live sports, reality shows, and overall cable TV are a huge part of what people are watching so it makes sense that people don't watch much of them wouldn't have seen the ads.
I can't be sure where I have seen them, but I think it was probably during live sports (most of the TV in my household is either live sports or local news). As to why they would run the ads there, many people watch live sports and the ads don't break down as cleanly as one might think. You seen ads for household cleaners, toys, wine, Old Navy jeans . . . it's not just beer and pizza (not that you were arguing that).
I have never seen them and watch sports almost exclusively, but a lot of the time it is on a DVR delay to avoid commercials, so it is totally possible that I am fast forwarding past PF commercials.
It is interesting if PF targets sports and reality TV shows, because that would seem to be audiences less likely to be intimidated by gyms (generally). That reinforces my belief that pricing and convenience are the real focus of the PF marketing message and that the "no intimidation" angle just draws attention.
It's also possible that PF uses different marketing strategies in different areas of the country.
In either case, if a company is using ads to "draw attention," it's clear that it is a conscious part of their branding even if a portion of their ads don't use that particular approach. I don't think we have to agree that the *majority* of PF's ads are focused on how unpleasant other gyms in order to discuss whether or not we think it's an appropriate message. An unpleasant or inappropriate message isn't somehow erased if some other messages are pleasant or appropriate.
Distinguishing yourself from your competition is Marketing 101. "We don't freeze our beef" "We don't' charge annual fees on our credit cards" "We don't charge for bags on our airline". Etc. There is nothing unpleasant or inappropriate about stating that you don't tolerate intimidation.
My kid's hockey team has a complete list of behaviors that parents and players shall or shall not do, and if you don't agree to abide by these rules, you don't play for this team. Is it unpleasant or inappropriate to clearly outline and enforce acceptable behavior, or is that an affront to the other youth hockey programs that allow parents to scream at the kids, bang on the glass, and verbally abuse refs or the kids to cheapshot other kids?
If the message is "you should play for this team because you will encounter [negative behavior] on the others," I would consider that potentially inappropriate (if it wasn't accurate). Touting your own product is fine. Unfairly dragging other products isn't.
If PF simply stated their rules and guidelines, I don't think this thread would exist. The issue is the picture they paint of other gyms. Keep in mind that in their ads centered on the "no judgement" theme, they aren't showing what is happening in PF. They're actively painting a negative picture of the customers of other gyms.
So if my kid’s hockey team decided to make an instructional video depicting hockey parents (not of a specific team) cartoonishly behaving awfully in order to show what not to do, should all the other hockey teams on our schedule feel offended? If a team we played did that I can't see how I would be offended unless I saw something of myself in that video. If I saw something of myself in that video, then maybe it is time to reevaluate my behavior.
What you are describing is a video attempting to instruct parents of children on your hockey team in appropriate behavior. Do you not see how that is different than an ad directed to the general public?
Providing behavior instructions or guidelines to people who are members of a group is very different than attempting to get people to join a group by telling them what they will encounter if they don't. In the example you have provided, no claims are being made about the behavior of other teams. There is no appeal to fear or a claim that your team is the only place to escape poor behavior.
If PF had a video for new members simply telling them what types of behavior were and were not tolerated in their gyms, I doubt this thread would exist.
As to whether or not you or another person feel offended in a given situation, that's not my decision. Again, none of this conversation is about telling people that they should be offended.
Is the PF ad stating "all other gyms are like this gym we are portraying here, unlike us", or is it similar to the fictitious hockey video which is showing behavior that some parents and ice rinks allow but is not tolerated by this particular program?
If you don't already understand the distinction between PF's ads attempting to draw new customers by criticizing the customers of other gyms and an instructional video letting people who have already signed up to a hockey league know what behavior is and isn't appropriate, I'm not sure anything I could say would help illustrate the difference.
Even if you don't want to see it, there is a difference between "Come here, otherwise you'll encounter these intimidating and unpleasant people" and "While you're here, here is how we expect you to act."
I just reviewed a Youtube collection of 10+ 30 second PF commercials to see if I was missing something - I don't think I am. It is just a series of parodies of a number of gym stereotypes to differentiate their brand, and the portrayal is so over-the-top silly I'm just struggling to find even a minor amount of controversy in it. I've gone to probably 40+ workout facilities over the years, including PF, community rec centers, Golds/Powerhouse type gyms, military gyms on bases, crossfit boxes, yoga studios and workplace gyms, and I didn't find a single PF parody that I would be offended by and say "OMG they are totally making fun of me and/or my gym!" Not a single one.
Regardless, it has a lot of people talking, so the marketing strategy gets an A+.
I think we've clearly established that you think the ad campaign is fine. I'm not sure what that proves. I mean, we know different people have different responses to things already, right?
The point was never "What does an experienced gym goer with no anxieties think about the PF ads?" The point was more like "Could these ads have a negative impact on less experienced people who may be forming their impression of gyms overall based on how PF presents other gyms?" In other words, could PF be driving people away from fitness by creating (false) impressions of what other gyms are like?
You are obviously not in that category, so I'm not seeing how your personal response to the ad campaign is particularly relevant. Is there a reason why your individual response should be the sole measure of how we discuss the overall impact of the campaign?
We are both sharing our opinions, but your's is more relevant than mine because..?GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Stupidity is a stereotype for what now? And that should be parodied?
These aren't parodies of the mentally impaired, which would be an offensive stereotype, these are parodies of guys who invest a tremendous amount of time in developing their bodies but a minimal amount time developing their minds or etiquette.
By the way, I would be willing to endure being considered stupid if I had the work ethic and the genetics to be a bodybuilder who makes a living eating, going to the gym, and dating fitness models.
When did I say that mine was more relevant? Please don't put words in my mouth.
My personal response to the ad is no more relevant than yours is.
You've consistently attempted to use your personal experience with PF and your personal response to the ads as some sort of relevant data point here. I'm saying that it isn't.
There's a bigger picture here than the PFs you have personally been to, how PF advertises in your area, and what you thought of the dozen or so PF ads you just watched on youtube.
Okay, I will step back and turn the discussion over to those who have never set foot in a PF but yet will extensively provide their perspective on PF based solely upon watching PF commercials on TV
I've never used a Shakeweight before, doesn't mean I don't think their commercials (and the whole premise of the damn thing) is stupid.9 -
Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »snickerscharlie wrote: »To anyone who may have been living in an advertising wasteland and has missed the fact that PF's marketing campaign negatively targets what they call "lunks" - this one's for you:https://youtu.be/yhDcjlYrwmQ
PS: No dog in this fight, either. I workout at home. Methinks their "Judgement Free Zone" campaign is merely a watered-down version of the same premise, though.
The narrative of all the PF ads I've seen posted on this thread (versus the ones I see on TV, which focus on low price and 24/7 hours) is
Prospective Customer: My experience or belief about gyms is horrible and absurd thing X. [Lunk alarm is part of anecdote/reminiscene of prospective customer]
PF employee trying to make a sale: That won't happen to you here. We're not a gym.
Not sure what TV you're seeing but all the national ads I've seen are the videos posted here which don't mention cost or hours. There may be some local ads that just focus on price and 24 hours (probably the case as not all PFs are 24/7). The national ads I've seen all start with examples of what PF considers examples stereotyped "lunk" behavior. Next, they show the perspective PF member in an almost confessional tone talking to the PF employee who looks at and talks to them like the employee is a grief counselor.
Not sure what you're trying to imply. I see TV that travels over airwaves licensed to broadcasters. I have been watching TV for many years. I have never seen a PF "lunk alarm" ad. Just ads that focus on prices and 24/7 access. I'm in the U.S., so maybe these national ads you speak of are for some other nation?
Keep in mind, even if you watch a lot of television, it's unlikely that you're watching all shows on all channels at the same time. It's possible that there may be ads that you haven't seen.
I'm aware of that. I just keep getting push back on the idea that in my experience these "lunk alarm" ads are not only not the dominant form of PF advertising, they are so rare that I have not seen them. Maybe the people who see them all the time are watching a lot of live sports or ... reality shows or ... cable TV? Things I don't watch much. Interesting if the first category were the one where PF is disproportionately running those kinds of ads -- I wonder why they would think the demographic they would appeal to would be folks watching live sports ...
Live sports, reality shows, and overall cable TV are a huge part of what people are watching so it makes sense that people don't watch much of them wouldn't have seen the ads.
I can't be sure where I have seen them, but I think it was probably during live sports (most of the TV in my household is either live sports or local news). As to why they would run the ads there, many people watch live sports and the ads don't break down as cleanly as one might think. You seen ads for household cleaners, toys, wine, Old Navy jeans . . . it's not just beer and pizza (not that you were arguing that).
I have never seen them and watch sports almost exclusively, but a lot of the time it is on a DVR delay to avoid commercials, so it is totally possible that I am fast forwarding past PF commercials.
It is interesting if PF targets sports and reality TV shows, because that would seem to be audiences less likely to be intimidated by gyms (generally). That reinforces my belief that pricing and convenience are the real focus of the PF marketing message and that the "no intimidation" angle just draws attention.
As I mentioned earlier the PF TV ads I see are the exact videos that have been posted in this discussion. There is no mention of pricing and convenience in those.
On the flipside, the internet marketing found on search engine results is almost entirely location, pricing, and convenience. Also, the PF web landing page is almost entirely location, pricing and convenience.janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »snickerscharlie wrote: »To anyone who may have been living in an advertising wasteland and has missed the fact that PF's marketing campaign negatively targets what they call "lunks" - this one's for you:https://youtu.be/yhDcjlYrwmQ
PS: No dog in this fight, either. I workout at home. Methinks their "Judgement Free Zone" campaign is merely a watered-down version of the same premise, though.
The narrative of all the PF ads I've seen posted on this thread (versus the ones I see on TV, which focus on low price and 24/7 hours) is
Prospective Customer: My experience or belief about gyms is horrible and absurd thing X. [Lunk alarm is part of anecdote/reminiscene of prospective customer]
PF employee trying to make a sale: That won't happen to you here. We're not a gym.
Not sure what TV you're seeing but all the national ads I've seen are the videos posted here which don't mention cost or hours. There may be some local ads that just focus on price and 24 hours (probably the case as not all PFs are 24/7). The national ads I've seen all start with examples of what PF considers examples stereotyped "lunk" behavior. Next, they show the perspective PF member in an almost confessional tone talking to the PF employee who looks at and talks to them like the employee is a grief counselor.
Not sure what you're trying to imply. I see TV that travels over airwaves licensed to broadcasters. I have been watching TV for many years. I have never seen a PF "lunk alarm" ad. Just ads that focus on prices and 24/7 access. I'm in the U.S., so maybe these national ads you speak of are for some other nation?
Keep in mind, even if you watch a lot of television, it's unlikely that you're watching all shows on all channels at the same time. It's possible that there may be ads that you haven't seen.
I'm aware of that. I just keep getting push back on the idea that in my experience these "lunk alarm" ads are not only not the dominant form of PF advertising, they are so rare that I have not seen them. Maybe the people who see them all the time are watching a lot of live sports or ... reality shows or ... cable TV? Things I don't watch much. Interesting if the first category were the one where PF is disproportionately running those kinds of ads -- I wonder why they would think the demographic they would appeal to would be folks watching live sports ...
Live sports, reality shows, and overall cable TV are a huge part of what people are watching so it makes sense that people don't watch much of them wouldn't have seen the ads.
I can't be sure where I have seen them, but I think it was probably during live sports (most of the TV in my household is either live sports or local news). As to why they would run the ads there, many people watch live sports and the ads don't break down as cleanly as one might think. You seen ads for household cleaners, toys, wine, Old Navy jeans . . . it's not just beer and pizza (not that you were arguing that).
I have never seen them and watch sports almost exclusively, but a lot of the time it is on a DVR delay to avoid commercials, so it is totally possible that I am fast forwarding past PF commercials.
It is interesting if PF targets sports and reality TV shows, because that would seem to be audiences less likely to be intimidated by gyms (generally). That reinforces my belief that pricing and convenience are the real focus of the PF marketing message and that the "no intimidation" angle just draws attention.
It's also possible that PF uses different marketing strategies in different areas of the country.
In either case, if a company is using ads to "draw attention," it's clear that it is a conscious part of their branding even if a portion of their ads don't use that particular approach. I don't think we have to agree that the *majority* of PF's ads are focused on how unpleasant other gyms in order to discuss whether or not we think it's an appropriate message. An unpleasant or inappropriate message isn't somehow erased if some other messages are pleasant or appropriate.
Distinguishing yourself from your competition is Marketing 101. "We don't freeze our beef" "We don't' charge annual fees on our credit cards" "We don't charge for bags on our airline". Etc. There is nothing unpleasant or inappropriate about stating that you don't tolerate intimidation.
My kid's hockey team has a complete list of behaviors that parents and players shall or shall not do, and if you don't agree to abide by these rules, you don't play for this team. Is it unpleasant or inappropriate to clearly outline and enforce acceptable behavior, or is that an affront to the other youth hockey programs that allow parents to scream at the kids, bang on the glass, and verbally abuse refs or the kids to cheapshot other kids?
If the message is "you should play for this team because you will encounter [negative behavior] on the others," I would consider that potentially inappropriate (if it wasn't accurate). Touting your own product is fine. Unfairly dragging other products isn't.
If PF simply stated their rules and guidelines, I don't think this thread would exist. The issue is the picture they paint of other gyms. Keep in mind that in their ads centered on the "no judgement" theme, they aren't showing what is happening in PF. They're actively painting a negative picture of the customers of other gyms.
So if my kid’s hockey team decided to make an instructional video depicting hockey parents (not of a specific team) cartoonishly behaving awfully in order to show what not to do, should all the other hockey teams on our schedule feel offended? If a team we played did that I can't see how I would be offended unless I saw something of myself in that video. If I saw something of myself in that video, then maybe it is time to reevaluate my behavior.
What you are describing is a video attempting to instruct parents of children on your hockey team in appropriate behavior. Do you not see how that is different than an ad directed to the general public?
Providing behavior instructions or guidelines to people who are members of a group is very different than attempting to get people to join a group by telling them what they will encounter if they don't. In the example you have provided, no claims are being made about the behavior of other teams. There is no appeal to fear or a claim that your team is the only place to escape poor behavior.
If PF had a video for new members simply telling them what types of behavior were and were not tolerated in their gyms, I doubt this thread would exist.
As to whether or not you or another person feel offended in a given situation, that's not my decision. Again, none of this conversation is about telling people that they should be offended.
Is the PF ad stating "all other gyms are like this gym we are portraying here, unlike us", or is it similar to the fictitious hockey video which is showing behavior that some parents and ice rinks allow but is not tolerated by this particular program?
If you don't already understand the distinction between PF's ads attempting to draw new customers by criticizing the customers of other gyms and an instructional video letting people who have already signed up to a hockey league know what behavior is and isn't appropriate, I'm not sure anything I could say would help illustrate the difference.
Even if you don't want to see it, there is a difference between "Come here, otherwise you'll encounter these intimidating and unpleasant people" and "While you're here, here is how we expect you to act."
I just reviewed a Youtube collection of 10+ 30 second PF commercials to see if I was missing something - I don't think I am. It is just a series of parodies of a number of gym stereotypes to differentiate their brand, and the portrayal is so over-the-top silly I'm just struggling to find even a minor amount of controversy in it. I've gone to probably 40+ workout facilities over the years, including PF, community rec centers, Golds/Powerhouse type gyms, military gyms on bases, crossfit boxes, yoga studios and workplace gyms, and I didn't find a single PF parody that I would be offended by and say "OMG they are totally making fun of me and/or my gym!" Not a single one.
Regardless, it has a lot of people talking, so the marketing strategy gets an A+.
I think we've clearly established that you think the ad campaign is fine. I'm not sure what that proves. I mean, we know different people have different responses to things already, right?
The point was never "What does an experienced gym goer with no anxieties think about the PF ads?" The point was more like "Could these ads have a negative impact on less experienced people who may be forming their impression of gyms overall based on how PF presents other gyms?" In other words, could PF be driving people away from fitness by creating (false) impressions of what other gyms are like?
You are obviously not in that category, so I'm not seeing how your personal response to the ad campaign is particularly relevant. Is there a reason why your individual response should be the sole measure of how we discuss the overall impact of the campaign?GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Stupidity is a stereotype for what now? And that should be parodied?
These aren't parodies of the mentally impaired, which would be an offensive stereotype, these are parodies of guys who invest a tremendous amount of time in developing their bodies but a minimal amount time developing their minds or etiquette.
By the way, I would be willing to endure being considered stupid if I had the work ethic and the genetics to be a bodybuilder who makes a living eating, going to the gym, and dating fitness models.
It implies that intellectual pursuits and bodybuilding are mutually exclusive, and you seem to believe this to be the case as well. Unreal.
Stating that this applies to some people is not the same as stating that this applies to all or even most people, you are trying really hard to be offended over a point of view that I don't actually have.
The commercials imply what they imply, not what you've selectively inferred.7 -
Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »snickerscharlie wrote: »To anyone who may have been living in an advertising wasteland and has missed the fact that PF's marketing campaign negatively targets what they call "lunks" - this one's for you:https://youtu.be/yhDcjlYrwmQ
PS: No dog in this fight, either. I workout at home. Methinks their "Judgement Free Zone" campaign is merely a watered-down version of the same premise, though.
The narrative of all the PF ads I've seen posted on this thread (versus the ones I see on TV, which focus on low price and 24/7 hours) is
Prospective Customer: My experience or belief about gyms is horrible and absurd thing X. [Lunk alarm is part of anecdote/reminiscene of prospective customer]
PF employee trying to make a sale: That won't happen to you here. We're not a gym.
Not sure what TV you're seeing but all the national ads I've seen are the videos posted here which don't mention cost or hours. There may be some local ads that just focus on price and 24 hours (probably the case as not all PFs are 24/7). The national ads I've seen all start with examples of what PF considers examples stereotyped "lunk" behavior. Next, they show the perspective PF member in an almost confessional tone talking to the PF employee who looks at and talks to them like the employee is a grief counselor.
Not sure what you're trying to imply. I see TV that travels over airwaves licensed to broadcasters. I have been watching TV for many years. I have never seen a PF "lunk alarm" ad. Just ads that focus on prices and 24/7 access. I'm in the U.S., so maybe these national ads you speak of are for some other nation?
Keep in mind, even if you watch a lot of television, it's unlikely that you're watching all shows on all channels at the same time. It's possible that there may be ads that you haven't seen.
I'm aware of that. I just keep getting push back on the idea that in my experience these "lunk alarm" ads are not only not the dominant form of PF advertising, they are so rare that I have not seen them. Maybe the people who see them all the time are watching a lot of live sports or ... reality shows or ... cable TV? Things I don't watch much. Interesting if the first category were the one where PF is disproportionately running those kinds of ads -- I wonder why they would think the demographic they would appeal to would be folks watching live sports ...
Live sports, reality shows, and overall cable TV are a huge part of what people are watching so it makes sense that people don't watch much of them wouldn't have seen the ads.
I can't be sure where I have seen them, but I think it was probably during live sports (most of the TV in my household is either live sports or local news). As to why they would run the ads there, many people watch live sports and the ads don't break down as cleanly as one might think. You seen ads for household cleaners, toys, wine, Old Navy jeans . . . it's not just beer and pizza (not that you were arguing that).
I have never seen them and watch sports almost exclusively, but a lot of the time it is on a DVR delay to avoid commercials, so it is totally possible that I am fast forwarding past PF commercials.
It is interesting if PF targets sports and reality TV shows, because that would seem to be audiences less likely to be intimidated by gyms (generally). That reinforces my belief that pricing and convenience are the real focus of the PF marketing message and that the "no intimidation" angle just draws attention.
As I mentioned earlier the PF TV ads I see are the exact videos that have been posted in this discussion. There is no mention of pricing and convenience in those.
On the flipside, the internet marketing found on search engine results is almost entirely location, pricing, and convenience. Also, the PF web landing page is almost entirely location, pricing and convenience.janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »snickerscharlie wrote: »To anyone who may have been living in an advertising wasteland and has missed the fact that PF's marketing campaign negatively targets what they call "lunks" - this one's for you:https://youtu.be/yhDcjlYrwmQ
PS: No dog in this fight, either. I workout at home. Methinks their "Judgement Free Zone" campaign is merely a watered-down version of the same premise, though.
The narrative of all the PF ads I've seen posted on this thread (versus the ones I see on TV, which focus on low price and 24/7 hours) is
Prospective Customer: My experience or belief about gyms is horrible and absurd thing X. [Lunk alarm is part of anecdote/reminiscene of prospective customer]
PF employee trying to make a sale: That won't happen to you here. We're not a gym.
Not sure what TV you're seeing but all the national ads I've seen are the videos posted here which don't mention cost or hours. There may be some local ads that just focus on price and 24 hours (probably the case as not all PFs are 24/7). The national ads I've seen all start with examples of what PF considers examples stereotyped "lunk" behavior. Next, they show the perspective PF member in an almost confessional tone talking to the PF employee who looks at and talks to them like the employee is a grief counselor.
Not sure what you're trying to imply. I see TV that travels over airwaves licensed to broadcasters. I have been watching TV for many years. I have never seen a PF "lunk alarm" ad. Just ads that focus on prices and 24/7 access. I'm in the U.S., so maybe these national ads you speak of are for some other nation?
Keep in mind, even if you watch a lot of television, it's unlikely that you're watching all shows on all channels at the same time. It's possible that there may be ads that you haven't seen.
I'm aware of that. I just keep getting push back on the idea that in my experience these "lunk alarm" ads are not only not the dominant form of PF advertising, they are so rare that I have not seen them. Maybe the people who see them all the time are watching a lot of live sports or ... reality shows or ... cable TV? Things I don't watch much. Interesting if the first category were the one where PF is disproportionately running those kinds of ads -- I wonder why they would think the demographic they would appeal to would be folks watching live sports ...
Live sports, reality shows, and overall cable TV are a huge part of what people are watching so it makes sense that people don't watch much of them wouldn't have seen the ads.
I can't be sure where I have seen them, but I think it was probably during live sports (most of the TV in my household is either live sports or local news). As to why they would run the ads there, many people watch live sports and the ads don't break down as cleanly as one might think. You seen ads for household cleaners, toys, wine, Old Navy jeans . . . it's not just beer and pizza (not that you were arguing that).
I have never seen them and watch sports almost exclusively, but a lot of the time it is on a DVR delay to avoid commercials, so it is totally possible that I am fast forwarding past PF commercials.
It is interesting if PF targets sports and reality TV shows, because that would seem to be audiences less likely to be intimidated by gyms (generally). That reinforces my belief that pricing and convenience are the real focus of the PF marketing message and that the "no intimidation" angle just draws attention.
It's also possible that PF uses different marketing strategies in different areas of the country.
In either case, if a company is using ads to "draw attention," it's clear that it is a conscious part of their branding even if a portion of their ads don't use that particular approach. I don't think we have to agree that the *majority* of PF's ads are focused on how unpleasant other gyms in order to discuss whether or not we think it's an appropriate message. An unpleasant or inappropriate message isn't somehow erased if some other messages are pleasant or appropriate.
Distinguishing yourself from your competition is Marketing 101. "We don't freeze our beef" "We don't' charge annual fees on our credit cards" "We don't charge for bags on our airline". Etc. There is nothing unpleasant or inappropriate about stating that you don't tolerate intimidation.
My kid's hockey team has a complete list of behaviors that parents and players shall or shall not do, and if you don't agree to abide by these rules, you don't play for this team. Is it unpleasant or inappropriate to clearly outline and enforce acceptable behavior, or is that an affront to the other youth hockey programs that allow parents to scream at the kids, bang on the glass, and verbally abuse refs or the kids to cheapshot other kids?
If the message is "you should play for this team because you will encounter [negative behavior] on the others," I would consider that potentially inappropriate (if it wasn't accurate). Touting your own product is fine. Unfairly dragging other products isn't.
If PF simply stated their rules and guidelines, I don't think this thread would exist. The issue is the picture they paint of other gyms. Keep in mind that in their ads centered on the "no judgement" theme, they aren't showing what is happening in PF. They're actively painting a negative picture of the customers of other gyms.
So if my kid’s hockey team decided to make an instructional video depicting hockey parents (not of a specific team) cartoonishly behaving awfully in order to show what not to do, should all the other hockey teams on our schedule feel offended? If a team we played did that I can't see how I would be offended unless I saw something of myself in that video. If I saw something of myself in that video, then maybe it is time to reevaluate my behavior.
What you are describing is a video attempting to instruct parents of children on your hockey team in appropriate behavior. Do you not see how that is different than an ad directed to the general public?
Providing behavior instructions or guidelines to people who are members of a group is very different than attempting to get people to join a group by telling them what they will encounter if they don't. In the example you have provided, no claims are being made about the behavior of other teams. There is no appeal to fear or a claim that your team is the only place to escape poor behavior.
If PF had a video for new members simply telling them what types of behavior were and were not tolerated in their gyms, I doubt this thread would exist.
As to whether or not you or another person feel offended in a given situation, that's not my decision. Again, none of this conversation is about telling people that they should be offended.
Is the PF ad stating "all other gyms are like this gym we are portraying here, unlike us", or is it similar to the fictitious hockey video which is showing behavior that some parents and ice rinks allow but is not tolerated by this particular program?
If you don't already understand the distinction between PF's ads attempting to draw new customers by criticizing the customers of other gyms and an instructional video letting people who have already signed up to a hockey league know what behavior is and isn't appropriate, I'm not sure anything I could say would help illustrate the difference.
Even if you don't want to see it, there is a difference between "Come here, otherwise you'll encounter these intimidating and unpleasant people" and "While you're here, here is how we expect you to act."
I just reviewed a Youtube collection of 10+ 30 second PF commercials to see if I was missing something - I don't think I am. It is just a series of parodies of a number of gym stereotypes to differentiate their brand, and the portrayal is so over-the-top silly I'm just struggling to find even a minor amount of controversy in it. I've gone to probably 40+ workout facilities over the years, including PF, community rec centers, Golds/Powerhouse type gyms, military gyms on bases, crossfit boxes, yoga studios and workplace gyms, and I didn't find a single PF parody that I would be offended by and say "OMG they are totally making fun of me and/or my gym!" Not a single one.
Regardless, it has a lot of people talking, so the marketing strategy gets an A+.
I think we've clearly established that you think the ad campaign is fine. I'm not sure what that proves. I mean, we know different people have different responses to things already, right?
The point was never "What does an experienced gym goer with no anxieties think about the PF ads?" The point was more like "Could these ads have a negative impact on less experienced people who may be forming their impression of gyms overall based on how PF presents other gyms?" In other words, could PF be driving people away from fitness by creating (false) impressions of what other gyms are like?
You are obviously not in that category, so I'm not seeing how your personal response to the ad campaign is particularly relevant. Is there a reason why your individual response should be the sole measure of how we discuss the overall impact of the campaign?
We are both sharing our opinions, but your's is more relevant than mine because..?GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Stupidity is a stereotype for what now? And that should be parodied?
These aren't parodies of the mentally impaired, which would be an offensive stereotype, these are parodies of guys who invest a tremendous amount of time in developing their bodies but a minimal amount time developing their minds or etiquette.
By the way, I would be willing to endure being considered stupid if I had the work ethic and the genetics to be a bodybuilder who makes a living eating, going to the gym, and dating fitness models.
When did I say that mine was more relevant? Please don't put words in my mouth.
My personal response to the ad is no more relevant than yours is.
You've consistently attempted to use your personal experience with PF and your personal response to the ads as some sort of relevant data point here. I'm saying that it isn't.
There's a bigger picture here than the PFs you have personally been to, how PF advertises in your area, and what you thought of the dozen or so PF ads you just watched on youtube.
Okay, I will step back and turn the discussion over to those who have never set foot in a PF but yet will extensively provide their perspective on PF based solely upon watching PF commercials on TV
I belonged to a PF for quite some time. It doesn't mean I have to find the commercials just peachy keen. Because I don't.
My husband belongs to PF now. It's the only gym in the area that has the hours he needs. It doesn't mean he thinks the commercials are all that either.
You can use a thing without liking the ads for it.9
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