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Keto diet -pros and cons
Replies
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teslac0ils wrote: »As other folks here have said, it all depends on what works for your body and your tastes.
Personally, I tried strict keto and it didn't work well for me. I felt high anxiety and had no appetite, which is fine for calorie restriction but not so good to have energy for your workouts. Even after the initial week of "keto flu" symptoms I just.... didn't feel like eating, food was really unappealing to me and I had to force myself to get something to eat so my body didn't just cannibalize my muscles. I lost a lot of weight in a month, then gained it all back when I gave up because I just didn't feel good from the diet and couldn't keep it up.
I've lost 30 lbs over the past 5 months and am still going on a less restrictive low carb diet of 50-65 net carbs a day. I just found out through trial and error that I personally feel best eating my calorie goal in that range of carb. I actually like low carb because it's good for keeping your appetite under control, keto just takes it to too much of an extreme for me. I still use a lot of keto recipes but then I'll also allow myself some delicious fruits & vegetables and the occasional whole grains.
that range of carbs may be good for YOU to keep appetite under control its not that way for everyone. I cant stay under 100g without feeling starved to death.3 -
teslac0ils wrote: »As other folks here have said, it all depends on what works for your body and your tastes.
Personally, I tried strict keto and it didn't work well for me. I felt high anxiety and had no appetite, which is fine for calorie restriction but not so good to have energy for your workouts. Even after the initial week of "keto flu" symptoms I just.... didn't feel like eating, food was really unappealing to me and I had to force myself to get something to eat so my body didn't just cannibalize my muscles. I lost a lot of weight in a month, then gained it all back when I gave up because I just didn't feel good from the diet and couldn't keep it up.
I've lost 30 lbs over the past 5 months and am still going on a less restrictive low carb diet of 50-65 net carbs a day. I just found out through trial and error that I personally feel best eating my calorie goal in that range of carb. I actually like low carb because it's good for keeping your appetite under control, keto just takes it to too much of an extreme for me. I still use a lot of keto recipes but then I'll also allow myself some delicious fruits & vegetables and the occasional whole grains.
This is highly individual though. Carbs have a high satiety level for me and I do really well with a woe that includes 200+ carbs a day.6 -
The post being quoted led withteslac0ils wrote: »As other folks here have said, it all depends on what works for your body and your tastes.
I think they are aware it us an individual thing.1 -
Pros
- Keto diets tend to help people who have difficulty moderating. (eg. can't just have one chip/donut)
- a lot of flavorful options are on the table
- You typically do not have to focus on calorie counting as the a caloric deficit often occurs naturally
- Reduced cravings
- The state of ketosis often result in a naturally suppressed appetite
- many experience rapid weightloss
Cons
- Not great for those who have difficulty abstaining (eg. the thought of not eating chips causes them to eat it)
- restricted diet, very limited sweets and starches
- not socially accepted
- Not very flexible (low tolerance for cheating)
- requires some study to understand the diet (low carb does not necessarily mean ketogenic)6 -
The post being quoted led withteslac0ils wrote: »As other folks here have said, it all depends on what works for your body and your tastes.
I think they are aware it us an individual thing.
Agreed, but I think the clarification of the bolded was appropriate. "I actually like low carb because it's good for keeping your appetite under control," should have been "I actually like low carb because it's good for keeping MY appetite under control." The latter is a personal observation. The former suggests a blanket benefit that isn't accurate.9 -
Keto is so restrictive and complicated with so many rules about foods you can and cannot eat, I'm starting to think that despite the many threads and articles on it (that are btw lacking the required information), the number of people that have definitively stayed in actual ketosis for longer than a few weeks are so small that any "success" from it is literally and statistically insignificant because to get that "success" you'd actually have to be able to follow it first.
"My hairdresser's neighbour's sister lost 18 lb in a month on Keto." I bet she wasn't in ketosis and she was just crash dieting like any other diet rumour going round.
I dont think keto has more complications than other diets. If people over complicate things, it is not out of necessity.
Normal moderation and calorie restriction might come down to restrict all calories somewhat, except protein, and perhaps restrict highly processed and refined foods more so than whole foods.
Keto might come down to restrict carbs to below 20-50g, and replace some with fat if that creates too large of a caloric deficit, and perhaps restrict highly processed and refined carbs more so than whole foods.
Eat this and not that details and rules are more about diet gurus making a buck, and is true in all diets, not just keto.
I think keto is just as successful in the long term as any diet. Perahaps a bit more so when medically prescribed like in the virta health 1 and 2 year studies for t2ds. When it co.es to health, people may be more motivated.5 -
I was alive and well in 1975 when Dr Atkins Diet Revolution was the weight loss diet of the year. He said then that ketosis was the magical key to weight loss, turning the body into a "fat burning machine'". In his follow-up book a few years later, he backed off of that claim, and admitted one could gain weight even while in deep ketosis, if calories are too high. As for appetite suppression, I think it's an illusion. After a week or so on a ketogenic diet, the limited food choices quickly become boring and you just get sick of it and eat less. One can only take a bunless hamburger or cauliflower rice for so long.5
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allysasmith105 wrote: »Hi,
I’m looking to lose around 40-50 pounds. Currently , I am watching my caloric intake. Meaning, I eat foods that I like, just count my Calories and stick to my daily allowance. I’ve heard mixed reviews on the Keto diet. What are the long term effects? For those have done Keto, is it hard to stay consistent? Those who aren’t on the Keto diet, what works for you? Any pros vs cons on this diet would be greatly appreciated
@allysasmith105 welcome to MFP forums.
Since Oct 2014 I have been living in at state of nutritional ketosis but eating in the the 3000 daily calorie range. Initially I was hoping for pain management for my Ankylosing Spondylitis form of arthritis to avoid having to start Enbrel injections for pain management. Just last month I started to eat more than 50 grams of carbs daily only eating whole foods more around 150 grams of carbs daily mainly from fruit of the holidays. Blood pressure started to the high side, headaches started to return and worse of all my ankles started to swell with pitting edema like in my pre Keto days but back at 50 grams of carbs daily those issues have once again resolved at 50 grams of daily carbs.
At the age of 68 I try to make life more simple with less stress so I do a simple version of Keto that has worked fine for over 4 years now. I eat no foods containing added sugars. I eat no foods containing any form of any grain which was once my major source of carbs when my Way Of Eating was High Carb High Fat. Naturally I have to keep my daily carbs at or under 50 grams a day to trigger ketosis.
In my case on this WOE I did lose 40-50 pounds but without intent and have maintained that loss for over 3 years now.
Now I eat this WOE because two weeks after I started it my pain stopped getting worse after 40 years and then started dropping like a rock. 30 days into Keto I told the doctors I would past on started the Enbrel injections;
I stick with Keto for pain management mainly and it has cut out my need to measure and count what I eat. No cravings and no going hungry was a new experience back in 2014 that continues in my case today.
Keto is the most simple WOE I have found but I knew I was dying prematurely if I did not do something different back in 2014.
If one has done keto for 4-5 years it is because it works for them. Is keto for you there is only one way to find out as you know. I strongly suggest you do not use anonymous advice about the best Way Of Eating but read what professionals as in doctors and other health care providers have to say who are ketogenic or have eaten this way. This info is all over the web as well as on MFP.
My personal observation is people without any health concerns that Keto may help or fully resolve tend to not stick with keto for the long haul.
Remember Keto is not magic but just another WOE. If it works for you or not will most likely be known after the first 90 days of full time nutritional ketosis. If keto does not work out for you that are a million other WOE's you can try or just stick with the one that is working for you at this time.
Best of success. The Keto groups in the MFP subforums have links to medically based keto resources.11 -
Fatty_Nuff wrote: »I was alive and well in 1975 when Dr Atkins Diet Revolution was the weight loss diet of the year. He said then that ketosis was the magical key to weight loss, turning the body into a "fat burning machine'". In his follow-up book a few years later, he backed off of that claim, and admitted one could gain weight even while in deep ketosis, if calories are too high. As for appetite suppression, I think it's an illusion. After a week or so on a ketogenic diet, the limited food choices quickly become boring and you just get sick of it and eat less. One can only take a bunless hamburger or cauliflower rice for so long.
Maybe for you - for me, I prefer to eat the same foods (or within the same category of foods) all the time. That means fewer decisions that I have to make and eliminates any angst that might arise from should I eat this or that. Also makes it very easy and quick to get thru the grocery store - get veggies, get meat that's on sale, get eggs, pay and out the door.2 -
I never did keto (I don’t think that it was around 9 years go), and I am not planning to follow that diet anytime soon either. Not only because I am already in maintenance, but because I don’t like the food limitations that the diet requires.
I don’t feel good with too much fat (Keto) just like I don’t feel good with too many carbs. I need to keep a balance, and I do better when my carbs and protein are around the 35% level for both, and fat is about 30%.
I like fruits and vegetables (fiber), and I enjoy yogurt and cheese; and even when I don’t eat pasta or a lot of deserts, and I eat potatoes, beans and rice on occasion, I still want to have the flexibility to enjoy them if I want to. I don’t care for any diet that restricts foods and nutrients, unless it is for medical reasons.
Keto has been around since the 1920's. Initially a diet for people with epilepsy. Medicines at that time were less effective than now.
Not for me. Basically if I won't do it forever, I won't do it to lose weight.
Ketogenic diets have been around longer than that, but it was just called eating seasonally or locally.
Not really. People ate plenty of carbs in the winter/early spring like root veg, grains, peas, beans and lentils, etc.
Depending on the period being discussed, many people might not have had access to much meat at all. And of course in Europe in early spring during the middle ages people would give up eggs, dairy, and meat (Lent), so clearly they can't have had only those things available to eat.
In areas where the diet otherwise would be ketogenic, people seem to adapt by becoming less likely to go into ketosis, which is interesting.
I would agree in much of the past, on average, people went in and out of ketosis more commonly than now, because of food scarcity.10 -
The post being quoted led withteslac0ils wrote: »As other folks here have said, it all depends on what works for your body and your tastes.
I think they are aware it us an individual thing.
Then why write "your appetite" instead of "my appetite"?7 -
I never did keto (I don’t think that it was around 9 years go), and I am not planning to follow that diet anytime soon either. Not only because I am already in maintenance, but because I don’t like the food limitations that the diet requires.
I don’t feel good with too much fat (Keto) just like I don’t feel good with too many carbs. I need to keep a balance, and I do better when my carbs and protein are around the 35% level for both, and fat is about 30%.
I like fruits and vegetables (fiber), and I enjoy yogurt and cheese; and even when I don’t eat pasta or a lot of deserts, and I eat potatoes, beans and rice on occasion, I still want to have the flexibility to enjoy them if I want to. I don’t care for any diet that restricts foods and nutrients, unless it is for medical reasons.
Keto has been around since the 1920's. Initially a diet for people with epilepsy. Medicines at that time were less effective than now.
Not for me. Basically if I won't do it forever, I won't do it to lose weight.
Ketogenic diets have been around longer than that, but it was just called eating seasonally or locally.
Not really. People ate plenty of carbs in the winter/early spring like root veg, grains, peas, beans and lentils, etc.
Depending on the period being discussed, many people might not have had access to much meat at all. And of course in Europe in early spring during the middle ages people would give up eggs, dairy, and meat (Lent), so clearly they can't have had only those things available to eat.
In areas where the diet otherwise would be ketogenic, people seem to adapt by becoming less likely to go into ketosis, which is interesting.
I would agree in much of the past, on average, people went in and out of ketosis more commonly than now, because of food scarcity.
That would depend on where you live and the time period. Agreed.
In Oceania, I doubt ketosis was common except during scarcity. In northern parts of Europe, North America or Asia, ketosis was probably seasonal for many 1000s of years, and again during scarcity.
I believe it is only the Inuit who adapted to make ketosis less common. Perhaps Russia's arctic peoples too? I dont know if it applies to them too.3 -
janejellyroll wrote: »The post being quoted led withteslac0ils wrote: »As other folks here have said, it all depends on what works for your body and your tastes.
I think they are aware it us an individual thing.
Then why write "your appetite" instead of "my appetite"?
You'd have to ask them, I guess.
Personally, I find it tiresome to always be hyper vigilant to include the "mays, coulds, possiblys , some" and such that mfp seems to demand from certain diets. Ive been around here a while and am almost used to doing it in an effort to avoid grammar battles. Perhaps that post just slipped a bit in that area.
Or who knows, maybe they did mean everyone or just some "you" in particular. That's just not my guess. Ymmv8 -
janejellyroll wrote: »The post being quoted led withteslac0ils wrote: »As other folks here have said, it all depends on what works for your body and your tastes.
I think they are aware it us an individual thing.
Then why write "your appetite" instead of "my appetite"?
You'd have to ask them, I guess.
Personally, I find it tiresome to always be hyper vigilant to include the "mays, coulds, possiblys , some" and such that mfp seems to demand from certain diets. Ive been around here a while and am almost used to doing it in an effort to avoid grammar battles. Perhaps that post just slipped a bit in that area.
Or who knows, maybe they did mean everyone or just some "you" in particular. That's just not my guess. Ymmv
I'm sorry you find it tiresome, but I don't know why we necessarily should tailor our interactions with others to avoid pressing any of your buttons. I personally find it tiresome when people insist that what worked for their appetite control will be a universal thing. It's not just a "grammar thing" when someone writes "your appetite" instead of "my appetite."
Someone wrote something inaccurate, others responded to that. It seems like things are working rather well.17 -
There are both pro-Keto and anti-Keto people on this site. Sadly the anti-keto folks are really misinformed. If you have to lose a few vanity pounds and are in good health it may not be for you. If you are obese with other medical conditions such as gastro problems, high blood pressure or type 2 diabetes it's perfect for you. If you lost weight countless times with restricted calories and more exercise only to gain it back each time, it's perfect. If you are killing CICO and the scale is not moving, try it. Most people who say they tried, and didn't like it, were probably never completely adapted. It takes time. If you were pounding 300 carbs a day you can't just drop to 20 overnight. Proper keto requires work. You have to test with strips, or a breath or blood meter to make sure you are in ketosis. You tend to get constipated. The transition period to fix digestive issues can take over 3 months. If you make it, you will be so grateful. High fiber makes many people much worse inspite of what guidlines and most doctors say. Your blood pressure and A1C will drop like mad. Once you are in the groove you'll start dropping your blood pressure and diabetes medicine. Long before you've lost significant weight. You will have a huge jump in cognitive thinking and mental clarity. You will feel great. You will fix your body. The pounds will come off at a rate you've never experienced before. You will learn how to make Hollandaise sauce if you don't know how to. A perfect keto breakfast is 2 eggs and hollandaise sauce (2 eggs and half a stick of real butter) and bacon or meat of your choice over 2 cups of steamed spinach. Many days one can eat this and not eat until the next day without any hunger. It's not just a fad as many still believe. It's a way of life. Very sustainable. And a much better one. The food is really insignificant when you look at the true health benefits though. The site below has over 500 thousand members. You don't have to join to use it. Look at the health benefits, the challenges, and the food you eat. Watch some of the many doctor videos. Check it out for yourself: https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb#oopsie
Good Luck to all, even the the devil Jillian Michaels (That's a joke)26 -
I never did keto (I don’t think that it was around 9 years go), and I am not planning to follow that diet anytime soon either. Not only because I am already in maintenance, but because I don’t like the food limitations that the diet requires.
I don’t feel good with too much fat (Keto) just like I don’t feel good with too many carbs. I need to keep a balance, and I do better when my carbs and protein are around the 35% level for both, and fat is about 30%.
I like fruits and vegetables (fiber), and I enjoy yogurt and cheese; and even when I don’t eat pasta or a lot of deserts, and I eat potatoes, beans and rice on occasion, I still want to have the flexibility to enjoy them if I want to. I don’t care for any diet that restricts foods and nutrients, unless it is for medical reasons.
Keto has been around since the 1920's. Initially a diet for people with epilepsy. Medicines at that time were less effective than now.
Not for me. Basically if I won't do it forever, I won't do it to lose weight.
Ketogenic diets have been around longer than that, but it was just called eating seasonally or locally.
Not really. People ate plenty of carbs in the winter/early spring like root veg, grains, peas, beans and lentils, etc.
Depending on the period being discussed, many people might not have had access to much meat at all. And of course in Europe in early spring during the middle ages people would give up eggs, dairy, and meat (Lent), so clearly they can't have had only those things available to eat.
In areas where the diet otherwise would be ketogenic, people seem to adapt by becoming less likely to go into ketosis, which is interesting.
I would agree in much of the past, on average, people went in and out of ketosis more commonly than now, because of food scarcity.
That would depend on where you live and the time period. Agreed.
In Oceania, I doubt ketosis was common except during scarcity. In northern parts of Europe, North America or Asia, ketosis was probably seasonal for many 1000s of years, and again during scarcity.
I believe it is only the Inuit who adapted to make ketosis less common. Perhaps Russia's arctic peoples too? I dont know if it applies to them too.
Yes, Russia's arctic populations too seem to have it. And that's only for one particular SNP that produces ketosis prevention.Here, we sequenced the genomes of 25 unrelated individuals from the Chukchi, Eskimo, and Koryak populations (Figure S1, available online) with a mean coverage of >40× by using the Complete Genomics platform (Tables S1A and S1B).2 -
There are both pro-Keto and anti-Keto people on this site. Sadly the anti-keto folks are really misinformed. If you have to lose a few vanity pounds and are in good health it may not be for you. If you are obese with other medical conditions such as gastro problems, high blood pressure or type 2 diabetes it's perfect for you. If you lost weight countless times with restricted calories and more exercise only to gain it back each time, it's perfect. If you are killing CICO and the scale is not moving, try it. Most people who say they tried, and didn't like it, were probably never completely adapted. It takes time. If you were pounding 300 carbs a day you can't just drop to 20 overnight. Proper keto requires work. You have to test with strips, or a breath or blood meter to make sure you are in ketosis. You tend to get constipated. The transition period to fix digestive issues can take over 3 months. If you make it, you will be so grateful. High fiber makes many people much worse inspite of what guidlines and most doctors say. Your blood pressure and A1C will drop like mad. Once you are in the groove you'll start dropping your blood pressure and diabetes medicine. Long before you've lost significant weight. You will have a huge jump in cognitive thinking and mental clarity. You will feel great. You will fix your body. The pounds will come off at a rate you've never experienced before. You will learn how to make Hollandaise sauce if you don't know how to. A perfect keto breakfast is 2 eggs and hollandaise sauce (2 eggs and half a stick of real butter) and bacon or meat of your choice over 2 cups of steamed spinach. Many days one can eat this and not eat until the next day without any hunger. It's not just a fad as many still believe. It's a way of life. Very sustainable. And a much better one. The food is really insignificant when you look at the true health benefits though. The site below has over 500 thousand members. You don't have to join to use it. Look at the health benefits, the challenges, and the food you eat. Watch some of the many doctor videos. Check it out for yourself: https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb#oopsie
Good Luck to all, even the the devil Jillian Michaels (That's a joke)
I'll just leave this here
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(18)31809-9/fulltext
eta: if you copy/paste the whole link in a new browser it will pull it up5 -
janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »The post being quoted led withteslac0ils wrote: »As other folks here have said, it all depends on what works for your body and your tastes.
I think they are aware it us an individual thing.
Then why write "your appetite" instead of "my appetite"?
You'd have to ask them, I guess.
Personally, I find it tiresome to always be hyper vigilant to include the "mays, coulds, possiblys , some" and such that mfp seems to demand from certain diets. Ive been around here a while and am almost used to doing it in an effort to avoid grammar battles. Perhaps that post just slipped a bit in that area.
Or who knows, maybe they did mean everyone or just some "you" in particular. That's just not my guess. Ymmv
I'm sorry you find it tiresome, but I don't know why we necessarily should tailor our interactions with others to avoid pressing any of your buttons. I personally find it tiresome when people insist that what worked for their appetite control will be a universal thing. It's not just a "grammar thing" when someone writes "your appetite" instead of "my appetite."
Someone wrote something inaccurate, others responded to that. It seems like things are working rather well.
I did not say that you needed to tailor your interactions. I said I am tired of tailoring mine - I still do it though.
Perhaps that poster will clarify their meaning. I could have been wrong.1 -
magnusthenerd wrote: »I never did keto (I don’t think that it was around 9 years go), and I am not planning to follow that diet anytime soon either. Not only because I am already in maintenance, but because I don’t like the food limitations that the diet requires.
I don’t feel good with too much fat (Keto) just like I don’t feel good with too many carbs. I need to keep a balance, and I do better when my carbs and protein are around the 35% level for both, and fat is about 30%.
I like fruits and vegetables (fiber), and I enjoy yogurt and cheese; and even when I don’t eat pasta or a lot of deserts, and I eat potatoes, beans and rice on occasion, I still want to have the flexibility to enjoy them if I want to. I don’t care for any diet that restricts foods and nutrients, unless it is for medical reasons.
Keto has been around since the 1920's. Initially a diet for people with epilepsy. Medicines at that time were less effective than now.
Not for me. Basically if I won't do it forever, I won't do it to lose weight.
Ketogenic diets have been around longer than that, but it was just called eating seasonally or locally.
Not really. People ate plenty of carbs in the winter/early spring like root veg, grains, peas, beans and lentils, etc.
Depending on the period being discussed, many people might not have had access to much meat at all. And of course in Europe in early spring during the middle ages people would give up eggs, dairy, and meat (Lent), so clearly they can't have had only those things available to eat.
In areas where the diet otherwise would be ketogenic, people seem to adapt by becoming less likely to go into ketosis, which is interesting.
I would agree in much of the past, on average, people went in and out of ketosis more commonly than now, because of food scarcity.
That would depend on where you live and the time period. Agreed.
In Oceania, I doubt ketosis was common except during scarcity. In northern parts of Europe, North America or Asia, ketosis was probably seasonal for many 1000s of years, and again during scarcity.
I believe it is only the Inuit who adapted to make ketosis less common. Perhaps Russia's arctic peoples too? I dont know if it applies to them too.
Yes, Russia's arctic populations too seem to have it. And that's only for one particular SNP that produces ketosis prevention.Here, we sequenced the genomes of 25 unrelated individuals from the Chukchi, Eskimo, and Koryak populations (Figure S1, available online) with a mean coverage of >40× by using the Complete Genomics platform (Tables S1A and S1B).
Interesting. Thank you.0 -
One thing I never understood is when keto advocates point out the foods they can eat, like they're somehow special to the keto way of eating. I can eat bacon, butter, eggs, hollandaise sauce etc, as well as anything else I want to eat. I can eat all the foods I enjoy and still hit my nutrition and weight management goals. I haven't had to cut anything out of my diet and I believe it's one of the reasons why I've been so successful with my goals.18
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I never did keto (I don’t think that it was around 9 years go), and I am not planning to follow that diet anytime soon either. Not only because I am already in maintenance, but because I don’t like the food limitations that the diet requires.
I don’t feel good with too much fat (Keto) just like I don’t feel good with too many carbs. I need to keep a balance, and I do better when my carbs and protein are around the 35% level for both, and fat is about 30%.
I like fruits and vegetables (fiber), and I enjoy yogurt and cheese; and even when I don’t eat pasta or a lot of deserts, and I eat potatoes, beans and rice on occasion, I still want to have the flexibility to enjoy them if I want to. I don’t care for any diet that restricts foods and nutrients, unless it is for medical reasons.
Keto has been around since the 1920's. Initially a diet for people with epilepsy. Medicines at that time were less effective than now.
Not for me. Basically if I won't do it forever, I won't do it to lose weight.
Ketogenic diets have been around longer than that, but it was just called eating seasonally or locally.
Not really. People ate plenty of carbs in the winter/early spring like root veg, grains, peas, beans and lentils, etc.
Depending on the period being discussed, many people might not have had access to much meat at all. And of course in Europe in early spring during the middle ages people would give up eggs, dairy, and meat (Lent), so clearly they can't have had only those things available to eat.
In areas where the diet otherwise would be ketogenic, people seem to adapt by becoming less likely to go into ketosis, which is interesting.
I would agree in much of the past, on average, people went in and out of ketosis more commonly than now, because of food scarcity.
That would depend on where you live and the time period. Agreed.
In Oceania, I doubt ketosis was common except during scarcity. In northern parts of Europe, North America or Asia, ketosis was probably seasonal for many 1000s of years, and again during scarcity.
I believe it is only the Inuit who adapted to make ketosis less common. Perhaps Russia's arctic peoples too? I dont know if it applies to them too.
I suspect it's the case for any population that has a diet that would otherwise result in consistent ketosis.
As you mention northern Europe, that was my point -- if we are talking "eating seasonally or locally," that does not necessarily mean low carb at all (let alone keto levels), and did not for most of recorded history in most of Europe. Vikings, for example, ate among other things bread, porridge, and other forms of oats.1 -
One think I never understood is when keto advocates point out the foods they can eat, like they're somehow special to the keto way of eating. I can eat bacon, butter, eggs, hollandaise sauce etc, as well as anything else I want to eat. I can eat all the foods I enjoy and still hit my nutrition and weight management goals. I haven't had to cut anything out of my diet and I believe it's one of the reasons why I've been so successful with my goals.
I dont think this is specific to keto. Many many posts about why someone does not want to do keto points out specific foods they eat that low carbers might limit it even avoid.
I think the point being made is that ketoers may eat more of those foods than others would. The reverse would also apply to higher carb people eating more bread or fruit or whatever they feel is a big or good or important part of their diet.
Ymmv2 -
I never did keto (I don’t think that it was around 9 years go), and I am not planning to follow that diet anytime soon either. Not only because I am already in maintenance, but because I don’t like the food limitations that the diet requires.
I don’t feel good with too much fat (Keto) just like I don’t feel good with too many carbs. I need to keep a balance, and I do better when my carbs and protein are around the 35% level for both, and fat is about 30%.
I like fruits and vegetables (fiber), and I enjoy yogurt and cheese; and even when I don’t eat pasta or a lot of deserts, and I eat potatoes, beans and rice on occasion, I still want to have the flexibility to enjoy them if I want to. I don’t care for any diet that restricts foods and nutrients, unless it is for medical reasons.
Keto has been around since the 1920's. Initially a diet for people with epilepsy. Medicines at that time were less effective than now.
Not for me. Basically if I won't do it forever, I won't do it to lose weight.
Ketogenic diets have been around longer than that, but it was just called eating seasonally or locally.
Not really. People ate plenty of carbs in the winter/early spring like root veg, grains, peas, beans and lentils, etc.
Depending on the period being discussed, many people might not have had access to much meat at all. And of course in Europe in early spring during the middle ages people would give up eggs, dairy, and meat (Lent), so clearly they can't have had only those things available to eat.
In areas where the diet otherwise would be ketogenic, people seem to adapt by becoming less likely to go into ketosis, which is interesting.
I would agree in much of the past, on average, people went in and out of ketosis more commonly than now, because of food scarcity.
That would depend on where you live and the time period. Agreed.
In Oceania, I doubt ketosis was common except during scarcity. In northern parts of Europe, North America or Asia, ketosis was probably seasonal for many 1000s of years, and again during scarcity.
I believe it is only the Inuit who adapted to make ketosis less common. Perhaps Russia's arctic peoples too? I dont know if it applies to them too.
I suspect it's the case for any population that has a diet that would otherwise result in consistent ketosis.
As you mention northern Europe, that was my point -- if we are talking "eating seasonally or locally," that does not necessarily mean low carb at all (let alone keto levels), and did not for most of recorded history in most of Europe. Vikings, for example, ate among other things bread, porridge, and other forms of oats.
Again, it depends on the time period. Farming so one eats higher carb rather than just a few grains here and there, is much newer to northern europe than agriculture is the the Mediterranean area. In Canada's First Nations plains people, agriculture was not used until the treaties forced them to stay on their own land. I have no idea if farming is used over herding in the high plains of Asia today.2 -
I never did keto (I don’t think that it was around 9 years go), and I am not planning to follow that diet anytime soon either. Not only because I am already in maintenance, but because I don’t like the food limitations that the diet requires.
I don’t feel good with too much fat (Keto) just like I don’t feel good with too many carbs. I need to keep a balance, and I do better when my carbs and protein are around the 35% level for both, and fat is about 30%.
I like fruits and vegetables (fiber), and I enjoy yogurt and cheese; and even when I don’t eat pasta or a lot of deserts, and I eat potatoes, beans and rice on occasion, I still want to have the flexibility to enjoy them if I want to. I don’t care for any diet that restricts foods and nutrients, unless it is for medical reasons.
Keto has been around since the 1920's. Initially a diet for people with epilepsy. Medicines at that time were less effective than now.
Not for me. Basically if I won't do it forever, I won't do it to lose weight.
Ketogenic diets have been around longer than that, but it was just called eating seasonally or locally.
Not really. People ate plenty of carbs in the winter/early spring like root veg, grains, peas, beans and lentils, etc.
Depending on the period being discussed, many people might not have had access to much meat at all. And of course in Europe in early spring during the middle ages people would give up eggs, dairy, and meat (Lent), so clearly they can't have had only those things available to eat.
In areas where the diet otherwise would be ketogenic, people seem to adapt by becoming less likely to go into ketosis, which is interesting.
I would agree in much of the past, on average, people went in and out of ketosis more commonly than now, because of food scarcity.
That would depend on where you live and the time period. Agreed.
In Oceania, I doubt ketosis was common except during scarcity. In northern parts of Europe, North America or Asia, ketosis was probably seasonal for many 1000s of years, and again during scarcity.
I believe it is only the Inuit who adapted to make ketosis less common. Perhaps Russia's arctic peoples too? I dont know if it applies to them too.
I suspect it's the case for any population that has a diet that would otherwise result in consistent ketosis.
As you mention northern Europe, that was my point -- if we are talking "eating seasonally or locally," that does not necessarily mean low carb at all (let alone keto levels), and did not for most of recorded history in most of Europe. Vikings, for example, ate among other things bread, porridge, and other forms of oats.
Many cultures seemed to have practiced preservation as well, so certain seasonal foods could be eaten in the off-season.2 -
There are both pro-Keto and anti-Keto people on this site.
There are very few anti-keto folks. Most of us (including many who do keto) consider macro choices to be an individual thing based on what works for the person, have tried different things, and agree that keto can be a good choice (because it makes it easier) for some people.
Most of us also dislike it when untrue claims are made, and so when false claims about keto are made, we will disagree. That does not mean we are anti-keto.If you are obese with other medical conditions such as gastro problems, high blood pressure or type 2 diabetes it's perfect for you.
It might be, it might not be. There are actually some reasons why it could be bad for someone with gastro problems or high blood pressure, and it's not at all necessary for someone with T2D. So again, depends on the person and saying everyone in these categories should do keto is wrong.If you lost weight countless times with restricted calories and more exercise only to gain it back each time, it's perfect.
It might be, it might not be. Seems more important to figure out why you were regaining, and lots of people who do keto regain (as people who did Atkins often regained).If you are killing CICO and the scale is not moving, try it.
If it appeals, sure, but if the scale is not moving over a significant period of time, you aren't "killing CICO." You are eating too much and moving too little.Most people who say they tried, and didn't like it, were probably never completely adapted.
Ah, the "no true Scotsman" thing. I liked it fine, felt fine, thought it wasn't healthier than how I would otherwise prefer to eat and saw no point for me in doing it, period. Others, though, tried it and felt horrible. It wasn't them doing it wrong, it's that some people respond that way.
I feel good eating low fat too (I prefer not to, but didn't find it problematic when I did it once (because I was trying out a WFPB thing)). Some people don't. People are different.It takes time. If you were pounding 300 carbs a day you can't just drop to 20 overnight. Proper keto requires work. You have to test with strips, or a breath or blood meter to make sure you are in ketosis. You tend to get constipated. The transition period to fix digestive issues can take over 3 months. If you make it, you will be so grateful.
This is obviously not true for everyone? Why the need to evangelize your own personal way of eating?
I hate snacking, I like eating only 3 (sometimes 2) meals a day. I find it odd that some people like grazing over eating meals. Yet if someone says they prefer eating 8 meals a day or grazing (or only 1 meal, which I could not do either, because I could not eat enough protein/veg in 1), I don't insist that they would be better off doing it my way. I recognize that people are different. Why can't you?High fiber makes many people much worse inspite of what guidlines and most doctors say.
Usually people with specific medical conditions, yes. Beyond that, often only people who have not yet gotten used to it and developed the right gut flora (almost every traditional human diet was much, much higher fiber than the guidelines today).Your blood pressure and A1C will drop like mad.
Don't think that's always the case with blood pressure (on the whole losing weight any way does help with blood pressure, however, and some improve their diets and eat more veg when they go keto, although they didn't need to go keto to do either). Agree it works with T2D, but so do a number of other things, especially if your goal is remission -- being able to eat a potato on occasion without a problem.10 -
One think I never understood is when keto advocates point out the foods they can eat, like they're somehow special to the keto way of eating. I can eat bacon, butter, eggs, hollandaise sauce etc, as well as anything else I want to eat. I can eat all the foods I enjoy and still hit my nutrition and weight management goals. I haven't had to cut anything out of my diet and I believe it's one of the reasons why I've been so successful with my goals.
Absolutely this. That's why I theorized in another keto thread (I'm getting confused between the two) that one appeal of keto is to people who think the foods they are eating were forbidden on other ways of dieting, it feels decadent to them.3 -
I never did keto (I don’t think that it was around 9 years go), and I am not planning to follow that diet anytime soon either. Not only because I am already in maintenance, but because I don’t like the food limitations that the diet requires.
I don’t feel good with too much fat (Keto) just like I don’t feel good with too many carbs. I need to keep a balance, and I do better when my carbs and protein are around the 35% level for both, and fat is about 30%.
I like fruits and vegetables (fiber), and I enjoy yogurt and cheese; and even when I don’t eat pasta or a lot of deserts, and I eat potatoes, beans and rice on occasion, I still want to have the flexibility to enjoy them if I want to. I don’t care for any diet that restricts foods and nutrients, unless it is for medical reasons.
Keto has been around since the 1920's. Initially a diet for people with epilepsy. Medicines at that time were less effective than now.
Not for me. Basically if I won't do it forever, I won't do it to lose weight.
Ketogenic diets have been around longer than that, but it was just called eating seasonally or locally.
Not really. People ate plenty of carbs in the winter/early spring like root veg, grains, peas, beans and lentils, etc.
Depending on the period being discussed, many people might not have had access to much meat at all. And of course in Europe in early spring during the middle ages people would give up eggs, dairy, and meat (Lent), so clearly they can't have had only those things available to eat.
In areas where the diet otherwise would be ketogenic, people seem to adapt by becoming less likely to go into ketosis, which is interesting.
I would agree in much of the past, on average, people went in and out of ketosis more commonly than now, because of food scarcity.
That would depend on where you live and the time period. Agreed.
In Oceania, I doubt ketosis was common except during scarcity. In northern parts of Europe, North America or Asia, ketosis was probably seasonal for many 1000s of years, and again during scarcity.
I believe it is only the Inuit who adapted to make ketosis less common. Perhaps Russia's arctic peoples too? I dont know if it applies to them too.
I suspect it's the case for any population that has a diet that would otherwise result in consistent ketosis.
As you mention northern Europe, that was my point -- if we are talking "eating seasonally or locally," that does not necessarily mean low carb at all (let alone keto levels), and did not for most of recorded history in most of Europe. Vikings, for example, ate among other things bread, porridge, and other forms of oats.
Again, it depends on the time period. Farming so one eats higher carb rather than just a few grains here and there, is much newer to northern europe than agriculture is the the Mediterranean area.
Agree, but I think there's a common misunderstanding about what people in paleo times ate (due to the paleo diet).
More significantly, your word choice "eating seasonally or locally" suggested that you thought that people in cold climates ate at keto levels of carbs more generally and until pretty recently, so I wanted to clarify. I know on some of the carnivore websites they try to claim that the natural human diet (not that there is such a thing) is basically mostly meat.
3 -
I never did keto (I don’t think that it was around 9 years go), and I am not planning to follow that diet anytime soon either. Not only because I am already in maintenance, but because I don’t like the food limitations that the diet requires.
I don’t feel good with too much fat (Keto) just like I don’t feel good with too many carbs. I need to keep a balance, and I do better when my carbs and protein are around the 35% level for both, and fat is about 30%.
I like fruits and vegetables (fiber), and I enjoy yogurt and cheese; and even when I don’t eat pasta or a lot of deserts, and I eat potatoes, beans and rice on occasion, I still want to have the flexibility to enjoy them if I want to. I don’t care for any diet that restricts foods and nutrients, unless it is for medical reasons.
Keto has been around since the 1920's. Initially a diet for people with epilepsy. Medicines at that time were less effective than now.
Not for me. Basically if I won't do it forever, I won't do it to lose weight.
Ketogenic diets have been around longer than that, but it was just called eating seasonally or locally.
Not really. People ate plenty of carbs in the winter/early spring like root veg, grains, peas, beans and lentils, etc.
Depending on the period being discussed, many people might not have had access to much meat at all. And of course in Europe in early spring during the middle ages people would give up eggs, dairy, and meat (Lent), so clearly they can't have had only those things available to eat.
In areas where the diet otherwise would be ketogenic, people seem to adapt by becoming less likely to go into ketosis, which is interesting.
I would agree in much of the past, on average, people went in and out of ketosis more commonly than now, because of food scarcity.
That would depend on where you live and the time period. Agreed.
In Oceania, I doubt ketosis was common except during scarcity. In northern parts of Europe, North America or Asia, ketosis was probably seasonal for many 1000s of years, and again during scarcity.
I believe it is only the Inuit who adapted to make ketosis less common. Perhaps Russia's arctic peoples too? I dont know if it applies to them too.
I suspect it's the case for any population that has a diet that would otherwise result in consistent ketosis.
As you mention northern Europe, that was my point -- if we are talking "eating seasonally or locally," that does not necessarily mean low carb at all (let alone keto levels), and did not for most of recorded history in most of Europe. Vikings, for example, ate among other things bread, porridge, and other forms of oats.
Again, it depends on the time period. Farming so one eats higher carb rather than just a few grains here and there, is much newer to northern europe than agriculture is the the Mediterranean area.
Agree, but I think there's a common misunderstanding about what people in paleo times ate (due to the paleo diet).
More significantly, your word choice "eating seasonally or locally" suggested that you thought that people in cold climates ate at keto levels of carbs more generally and until pretty recently, so I wanted to clarify. I know on some of the carnivore websites they try to claim that the natural human diet (not that there is such a thing) is basically mostly meat.
Yes, some (most) people in northern continents ate ketogenic levels if carbs more frequently (usually seasonally) until recently (200-1000 years ago) depending on the area. I consider a ketogenic level of carbs to typically be under 50g net, although the active and metabolically healthy can eat up to 2-5 times more carbs and stay ketogenic if they eat around when they are very active.
These people were not eating almond flour flat breads, or avocados, or organic honey or whatever else is in the Paleo brand diet. I was not thinking paleo, just what foods i know that were available to those nomadic people. Most in those areas did not eat a carnivore diet, although it was animal heavy. I am sure they enjoyed berries and roots, perhaps even the occasional green , I the late summer and early fall. Some of it was even mixed into high fat meats for flavour for late winter foods.4 -
There are both pro-Keto and anti-Keto people on this site. Sadly the anti-keto folks are really misinformed. If you have to lose a few vanity pounds and are in good health it may not be for you. If you are obese with other medical conditions such as gastro problems, high blood pressure or type 2 diabetes it's perfect for you. If you lost weight countless times with restricted calories and more exercise only to gain it back each time, it's perfect. If you are killing CICO and the scale is not moving, try it. Most people who say they tried, and didn't like it, were probably never completely adapted. It takes time. If you were pounding 300 carbs a day you can't just drop to 20 overnight. Proper keto requires work. You have to test with strips, or a breath or blood meter to make sure you are in ketosis. You tend to get constipated. The transition period to fix digestive issues can take over 3 months. If you make it, you will be so grateful. High fiber makes many people much worse inspite of what guidlines and most doctors say. Your blood pressure and A1C will drop like mad. Once you are in the groove you'll start dropping your blood pressure and diabetes medicine. Long before you've lost significant weight. You will have a huge jump in cognitive thinking and mental clarity. You will feel great. You will fix your body. The pounds will come off at a rate you've never experienced before. You will learn how to make Hollandaise sauce if you don't know how to. A perfect keto breakfast is 2 eggs and hollandaise sauce (2 eggs and half a stick of real butter) and bacon or meat of your choice over 2 cups of steamed spinach. Many days one can eat this and not eat until the next day without any hunger. It's not just a fad as many still believe. It's a way of life. Very sustainable. And a much better one. The food is really insignificant when you look at the true health benefits though. The site below has over 500 thousand members. You don't have to join to use it. Look at the health benefits, the challenges, and the food you eat. Watch some of the many doctor videos. Check it out for yourself: https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb#oopsie
Good Luck to all, even the the devil Jillian Michaels (That's a joke)
well I can say I have gastro problems and keto didnt do a dang thing for them. it made them worse and it gave me diarrhea I was not constipated. my gallbladder works fine so its not that. I was keto adapted as I did it for 2 months. my gastroenterologist also said that keto isnt going to "cure" gastro/digestive problems as many of those things are caused by other issues which change in diet rarely makes a big difference. I know for me my self it hasnt. ad for the the jump in cognitive thinking and mental clarity I had a HUGE decline in mine. I didnt feel great, it didnt fix my body it made my health issues worse and those with type 2 and high blood pressure weight loss alone can improve those things keto or not. I lost 45 lbs eating more that 200g of carbs per day because I was in a deficit still. as for the hunger it made no difference I did not lose a lot of weight in the beginning either 5 lbs was the most I lost on keto and then it slowed down.
I was obese too all my health issues started when I was thin and at a healthy weight and some of them are genetic. keto is NOT going to fix those things. maybe for some that do keto will see some improvement in health issues(you still have to watch calories as you can gain weight doing keto). but for me it made my health decline at a rapid pace and I will say I will NEVER do it again. if someone else wants to do it or try it thhats their choice but people also need to be aware of the issues it can also cause on ones health. oh and keto is 50g net of carbs not 20. some athletes can be in ketosis eating more than 100g of carbs a day. it definitely was NOT sustainable for me at all. If I had kept going I probably would not be here now and thats not a joke or a jab at keto its what I experienced.5 -
My view of Keto is based on modern research and personal and other peoples experiences. I'm not going to address each of everyone's comments because I have a good life and I am confident in what I said. My hope is that someone who is struggling with traditional diets won't be discouraged by the misinformation about ketosis dieting on MFP. And they understand it's hard at first. If you get into it and need support to find a support group on facebook or something. I don't think you'll find it on this site.18
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