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Keto diet -pros and cons

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  • nvmomketo
    nvmomketo Posts: 12,019 Member
    edited January 2019
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    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    nvmomketo wrote: »
    TeaBea wrote: »
    Gisel2015 wrote: »
    I never did keto (I don’t think that it was around 9 years go), and I am not planning to follow that diet anytime soon either. Not only because I am already in maintenance, but because I don’t like the food limitations that the diet requires.

    I don’t feel good with too much fat (Keto) just like I don’t feel good with too many carbs. I need to keep a balance, and I do better when my carbs and protein are around the 35% level for both, and fat is about 30%.

    I like fruits and vegetables (fiber), and I enjoy yogurt and cheese; and even when I don’t eat pasta or a lot of deserts, and I eat potatoes, beans and rice on occasion, I still want to have the flexibility to enjoy them if I want to. I don’t care for any diet that restricts foods and nutrients, unless it is for medical reasons.

    Keto has been around since the 1920's. Initially a diet for people with epilepsy. Medicines at that time were less effective than now.

    Not for me. Basically if I won't do it forever, I won't do it to lose weight.

    Ketogenic diets have been around longer than that, but it was just called eating seasonally or locally. ;)

    Not really. People ate plenty of carbs in the winter/early spring like root veg, grains, peas, beans and lentils, etc.

    Depending on the period being discussed, many people might not have had access to much meat at all. And of course in Europe in early spring during the middle ages people would give up eggs, dairy, and meat (Lent), so clearly they can't have had only those things available to eat.

    In areas where the diet otherwise would be ketogenic, people seem to adapt by becoming less likely to go into ketosis, which is interesting.

    I would agree in much of the past, on average, people went in and out of ketosis more commonly than now, because of food scarcity.

    That would depend on where you live and the time period. Agreed.

    In Oceania, I doubt ketosis was common except during scarcity. In northern parts of Europe, North America or Asia, ketosis was probably seasonal for many 1000s of years, and again during scarcity.

    I believe it is only the Inuit who adapted to make ketosis less common. Perhaps Russia's arctic peoples too? I dont know if it applies to them too.
  • magnusthenerd
    magnusthenerd Posts: 1,207 Member
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    nvmomketo wrote: »
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    nvmomketo wrote: »
    TeaBea wrote: »
    Gisel2015 wrote: »
    I never did keto (I don’t think that it was around 9 years go), and I am not planning to follow that diet anytime soon either. Not only because I am already in maintenance, but because I don’t like the food limitations that the diet requires.

    I don’t feel good with too much fat (Keto) just like I don’t feel good with too many carbs. I need to keep a balance, and I do better when my carbs and protein are around the 35% level for both, and fat is about 30%.

    I like fruits and vegetables (fiber), and I enjoy yogurt and cheese; and even when I don’t eat pasta or a lot of deserts, and I eat potatoes, beans and rice on occasion, I still want to have the flexibility to enjoy them if I want to. I don’t care for any diet that restricts foods and nutrients, unless it is for medical reasons.

    Keto has been around since the 1920's. Initially a diet for people with epilepsy. Medicines at that time were less effective than now.

    Not for me. Basically if I won't do it forever, I won't do it to lose weight.

    Ketogenic diets have been around longer than that, but it was just called eating seasonally or locally. ;)

    Not really. People ate plenty of carbs in the winter/early spring like root veg, grains, peas, beans and lentils, etc.

    Depending on the period being discussed, many people might not have had access to much meat at all. And of course in Europe in early spring during the middle ages people would give up eggs, dairy, and meat (Lent), so clearly they can't have had only those things available to eat.

    In areas where the diet otherwise would be ketogenic, people seem to adapt by becoming less likely to go into ketosis, which is interesting.

    I would agree in much of the past, on average, people went in and out of ketosis more commonly than now, because of food scarcity.

    That would depend on where you live and the time period. Agreed.

    In Oceania, I doubt ketosis was common except during scarcity. In northern parts of Europe, North America or Asia, ketosis was probably seasonal for many 1000s of years, and again during scarcity.

    I believe it is only the Inuit who adapted to make ketosis less common. Perhaps Russia's arctic peoples too? I dont know if it applies to them too.
    Here, we sequenced the genomes of 25 unrelated individuals from the Chukchi, Eskimo, and Koryak populations (Figure S1, available online) with a mean coverage of >40× by using the Complete Genomics platform (Tables S1A and S1B).
    Yes, Russia's arctic populations too seem to have it. And that's only for one particular SNP that produces ketosis prevention.
  • nvmomketo
    nvmomketo Posts: 12,019 Member
    Options
    janejellyroll wrote: »
    nvmomketo wrote: »
    janejellyroll wrote: »
    nvmomketo wrote: »
    The post being quoted led with
    teslac0ils wrote: »
    As other folks here have said, it all depends on what works for your body and your tastes.

    I think they are aware it us an individual thing.

    Then why write "your appetite" instead of "my appetite"?

    You'd have to ask them, I guess.

    Personally, I find it tiresome to always be hyper vigilant to include the "mays, coulds, possiblys , some" and such that mfp seems to demand from certain diets. Ive been around here a while and am almost used to doing it in an effort to avoid grammar battles. Perhaps that post just slipped a bit in that area.

    Or who knows, maybe they did mean everyone or just some "you" in particular. That's just not my guess. Ymmv

    I'm sorry you find it tiresome, but I don't know why we necessarily should tailor our interactions with others to avoid pressing any of your buttons. I personally find it tiresome when people insist that what worked for their appetite control will be a universal thing. It's not just a "grammar thing" when someone writes "your appetite" instead of "my appetite."

    Someone wrote something inaccurate, others responded to that. It seems like things are working rather well.

    I did not say that you needed to tailor your interactions. I said I am tired of tailoring mine - I still do it though.

    Perhaps that poster will clarify their meaning. I could have been wrong.
  • nvmomketo
    nvmomketo Posts: 12,019 Member
    Options
    magnusthenerd wrote: »
    nvmomketo wrote: »
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    nvmomketo wrote: »
    TeaBea wrote: »
    Gisel2015 wrote: »
    I never did keto (I don’t think that it was around 9 years go), and I am not planning to follow that diet anytime soon either. Not only because I am already in maintenance, but because I don’t like the food limitations that the diet requires.

    I don’t feel good with too much fat (Keto) just like I don’t feel good with too many carbs. I need to keep a balance, and I do better when my carbs and protein are around the 35% level for both, and fat is about 30%.

    I like fruits and vegetables (fiber), and I enjoy yogurt and cheese; and even when I don’t eat pasta or a lot of deserts, and I eat potatoes, beans and rice on occasion, I still want to have the flexibility to enjoy them if I want to. I don’t care for any diet that restricts foods and nutrients, unless it is for medical reasons.

    Keto has been around since the 1920's. Initially a diet for people with epilepsy. Medicines at that time were less effective than now.

    Not for me. Basically if I won't do it forever, I won't do it to lose weight.

    Ketogenic diets have been around longer than that, but it was just called eating seasonally or locally. ;)

    Not really. People ate plenty of carbs in the winter/early spring like root veg, grains, peas, beans and lentils, etc.

    Depending on the period being discussed, many people might not have had access to much meat at all. And of course in Europe in early spring during the middle ages people would give up eggs, dairy, and meat (Lent), so clearly they can't have had only those things available to eat.

    In areas where the diet otherwise would be ketogenic, people seem to adapt by becoming less likely to go into ketosis, which is interesting.

    I would agree in much of the past, on average, people went in and out of ketosis more commonly than now, because of food scarcity.

    That would depend on where you live and the time period. Agreed.

    In Oceania, I doubt ketosis was common except during scarcity. In northern parts of Europe, North America or Asia, ketosis was probably seasonal for many 1000s of years, and again during scarcity.

    I believe it is only the Inuit who adapted to make ketosis less common. Perhaps Russia's arctic peoples too? I dont know if it applies to them too.
    Here, we sequenced the genomes of 25 unrelated individuals from the Chukchi, Eskimo, and Koryak populations (Figure S1, available online) with a mean coverage of >40× by using the Complete Genomics platform (Tables S1A and S1B).
    Yes, Russia's arctic populations too seem to have it. And that's only for one particular SNP that produces ketosis prevention.

    Interesting. Thank you.
  • lemurcat2
    lemurcat2 Posts: 7,885 Member
    edited January 2019
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    nvmomketo wrote: »
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    nvmomketo wrote: »
    TeaBea wrote: »
    Gisel2015 wrote: »
    I never did keto (I don’t think that it was around 9 years go), and I am not planning to follow that diet anytime soon either. Not only because I am already in maintenance, but because I don’t like the food limitations that the diet requires.

    I don’t feel good with too much fat (Keto) just like I don’t feel good with too many carbs. I need to keep a balance, and I do better when my carbs and protein are around the 35% level for both, and fat is about 30%.

    I like fruits and vegetables (fiber), and I enjoy yogurt and cheese; and even when I don’t eat pasta or a lot of deserts, and I eat potatoes, beans and rice on occasion, I still want to have the flexibility to enjoy them if I want to. I don’t care for any diet that restricts foods and nutrients, unless it is for medical reasons.

    Keto has been around since the 1920's. Initially a diet for people with epilepsy. Medicines at that time were less effective than now.

    Not for me. Basically if I won't do it forever, I won't do it to lose weight.

    Ketogenic diets have been around longer than that, but it was just called eating seasonally or locally. ;)

    Not really. People ate plenty of carbs in the winter/early spring like root veg, grains, peas, beans and lentils, etc.

    Depending on the period being discussed, many people might not have had access to much meat at all. And of course in Europe in early spring during the middle ages people would give up eggs, dairy, and meat (Lent), so clearly they can't have had only those things available to eat.

    In areas where the diet otherwise would be ketogenic, people seem to adapt by becoming less likely to go into ketosis, which is interesting.

    I would agree in much of the past, on average, people went in and out of ketosis more commonly than now, because of food scarcity.

    That would depend on where you live and the time period. Agreed.

    In Oceania, I doubt ketosis was common except during scarcity. In northern parts of Europe, North America or Asia, ketosis was probably seasonal for many 1000s of years, and again during scarcity.

    I believe it is only the Inuit who adapted to make ketosis less common. Perhaps Russia's arctic peoples too? I dont know if it applies to them too.

    I suspect it's the case for any population that has a diet that would otherwise result in consistent ketosis.

    As you mention northern Europe, that was my point -- if we are talking "eating seasonally or locally," that does not necessarily mean low carb at all (let alone keto levels), and did not for most of recorded history in most of Europe. Vikings, for example, ate among other things bread, porridge, and other forms of oats.
  • nvmomketo
    nvmomketo Posts: 12,019 Member
    edited January 2019
    Options
    zeejane03 wrote: »
    One think I never understood is when keto advocates point out the foods they can eat, like they're somehow special to the keto way of eating. I can eat bacon, butter, eggs, hollandaise sauce etc, as well as anything else I want to eat. I can eat all the foods I enjoy and still hit my nutrition and weight management goals. I haven't had to cut anything out of my diet and I believe it's one of the reasons why I've been so successful with my goals.

    I dont think this is specific to keto. Many many posts about why someone does not want to do keto points out specific foods they eat that low carbers might limit it even avoid.

    I think the point being made is that ketoers may eat more of those foods than others would. The reverse would also apply to higher carb people eating more bread or fruit or whatever they feel is a big or good or important part of their diet.

    Ymmv
  • nvmomketo
    nvmomketo Posts: 12,019 Member
    Options
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    nvmomketo wrote: »
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    nvmomketo wrote: »
    TeaBea wrote: »
    Gisel2015 wrote: »
    I never did keto (I don’t think that it was around 9 years go), and I am not planning to follow that diet anytime soon either. Not only because I am already in maintenance, but because I don’t like the food limitations that the diet requires.

    I don’t feel good with too much fat (Keto) just like I don’t feel good with too many carbs. I need to keep a balance, and I do better when my carbs and protein are around the 35% level for both, and fat is about 30%.

    I like fruits and vegetables (fiber), and I enjoy yogurt and cheese; and even when I don’t eat pasta or a lot of deserts, and I eat potatoes, beans and rice on occasion, I still want to have the flexibility to enjoy them if I want to. I don’t care for any diet that restricts foods and nutrients, unless it is for medical reasons.

    Keto has been around since the 1920's. Initially a diet for people with epilepsy. Medicines at that time were less effective than now.

    Not for me. Basically if I won't do it forever, I won't do it to lose weight.

    Ketogenic diets have been around longer than that, but it was just called eating seasonally or locally. ;)

    Not really. People ate plenty of carbs in the winter/early spring like root veg, grains, peas, beans and lentils, etc.

    Depending on the period being discussed, many people might not have had access to much meat at all. And of course in Europe in early spring during the middle ages people would give up eggs, dairy, and meat (Lent), so clearly they can't have had only those things available to eat.

    In areas where the diet otherwise would be ketogenic, people seem to adapt by becoming less likely to go into ketosis, which is interesting.

    I would agree in much of the past, on average, people went in and out of ketosis more commonly than now, because of food scarcity.

    That would depend on where you live and the time period. Agreed.

    In Oceania, I doubt ketosis was common except during scarcity. In northern parts of Europe, North America or Asia, ketosis was probably seasonal for many 1000s of years, and again during scarcity.

    I believe it is only the Inuit who adapted to make ketosis less common. Perhaps Russia's arctic peoples too? I dont know if it applies to them too.

    I suspect it's the case for any population that has a diet that would otherwise result in consistent ketosis.

    As you mention northern Europe, that was my point -- if we are talking "eating seasonally or locally," that does not necessarily mean low carb at all (let alone keto levels), and did not for most of recorded history in most of Europe. Vikings, for example, ate among other things bread, porridge, and other forms of oats.

    Again, it depends on the time period. Farming so one eats higher carb rather than just a few grains here and there, is much newer to northern europe than agriculture is the the Mediterranean area. In Canada's First Nations plains people, agriculture was not used until the treaties forced them to stay on their own land. I have no idea if farming is used over herding in the high plains of Asia today.
  • janejellyroll
    janejellyroll Posts: 25,763 Member
    Options
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    nvmomketo wrote: »
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    nvmomketo wrote: »
    TeaBea wrote: »
    Gisel2015 wrote: »
    I never did keto (I don’t think that it was around 9 years go), and I am not planning to follow that diet anytime soon either. Not only because I am already in maintenance, but because I don’t like the food limitations that the diet requires.

    I don’t feel good with too much fat (Keto) just like I don’t feel good with too many carbs. I need to keep a balance, and I do better when my carbs and protein are around the 35% level for both, and fat is about 30%.

    I like fruits and vegetables (fiber), and I enjoy yogurt and cheese; and even when I don’t eat pasta or a lot of deserts, and I eat potatoes, beans and rice on occasion, I still want to have the flexibility to enjoy them if I want to. I don’t care for any diet that restricts foods and nutrients, unless it is for medical reasons.

    Keto has been around since the 1920's. Initially a diet for people with epilepsy. Medicines at that time were less effective than now.

    Not for me. Basically if I won't do it forever, I won't do it to lose weight.

    Ketogenic diets have been around longer than that, but it was just called eating seasonally or locally. ;)

    Not really. People ate plenty of carbs in the winter/early spring like root veg, grains, peas, beans and lentils, etc.

    Depending on the period being discussed, many people might not have had access to much meat at all. And of course in Europe in early spring during the middle ages people would give up eggs, dairy, and meat (Lent), so clearly they can't have had only those things available to eat.

    In areas where the diet otherwise would be ketogenic, people seem to adapt by becoming less likely to go into ketosis, which is interesting.

    I would agree in much of the past, on average, people went in and out of ketosis more commonly than now, because of food scarcity.

    That would depend on where you live and the time period. Agreed.

    In Oceania, I doubt ketosis was common except during scarcity. In northern parts of Europe, North America or Asia, ketosis was probably seasonal for many 1000s of years, and again during scarcity.

    I believe it is only the Inuit who adapted to make ketosis less common. Perhaps Russia's arctic peoples too? I dont know if it applies to them too.

    I suspect it's the case for any population that has a diet that would otherwise result in consistent ketosis.

    As you mention northern Europe, that was my point -- if we are talking "eating seasonally or locally," that does not necessarily mean low carb at all (let alone keto levels), and did not for most of recorded history in most of Europe. Vikings, for example, ate among other things bread, porridge, and other forms of oats.

    Many cultures seemed to have practiced preservation as well, so certain seasonal foods could be eaten in the off-season.
  • lemurcat2
    lemurcat2 Posts: 7,885 Member
    Options
    zeejane03 wrote: »
    One think I never understood is when keto advocates point out the foods they can eat, like they're somehow special to the keto way of eating. I can eat bacon, butter, eggs, hollandaise sauce etc, as well as anything else I want to eat. I can eat all the foods I enjoy and still hit my nutrition and weight management goals. I haven't had to cut anything out of my diet and I believe it's one of the reasons why I've been so successful with my goals.

    Absolutely this. That's why I theorized in another keto thread (I'm getting confused between the two) that one appeal of keto is to people who think the foods they are eating were forbidden on other ways of dieting, it feels decadent to them.
  • lemurcat2
    lemurcat2 Posts: 7,885 Member
    Options
    nvmomketo wrote: »
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    nvmomketo wrote: »
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    nvmomketo wrote: »
    TeaBea wrote: »
    Gisel2015 wrote: »
    I never did keto (I don’t think that it was around 9 years go), and I am not planning to follow that diet anytime soon either. Not only because I am already in maintenance, but because I don’t like the food limitations that the diet requires.

    I don’t feel good with too much fat (Keto) just like I don’t feel good with too many carbs. I need to keep a balance, and I do better when my carbs and protein are around the 35% level for both, and fat is about 30%.

    I like fruits and vegetables (fiber), and I enjoy yogurt and cheese; and even when I don’t eat pasta or a lot of deserts, and I eat potatoes, beans and rice on occasion, I still want to have the flexibility to enjoy them if I want to. I don’t care for any diet that restricts foods and nutrients, unless it is for medical reasons.

    Keto has been around since the 1920's. Initially a diet for people with epilepsy. Medicines at that time were less effective than now.

    Not for me. Basically if I won't do it forever, I won't do it to lose weight.

    Ketogenic diets have been around longer than that, but it was just called eating seasonally or locally. ;)

    Not really. People ate plenty of carbs in the winter/early spring like root veg, grains, peas, beans and lentils, etc.

    Depending on the period being discussed, many people might not have had access to much meat at all. And of course in Europe in early spring during the middle ages people would give up eggs, dairy, and meat (Lent), so clearly they can't have had only those things available to eat.

    In areas where the diet otherwise would be ketogenic, people seem to adapt by becoming less likely to go into ketosis, which is interesting.

    I would agree in much of the past, on average, people went in and out of ketosis more commonly than now, because of food scarcity.

    That would depend on where you live and the time period. Agreed.

    In Oceania, I doubt ketosis was common except during scarcity. In northern parts of Europe, North America or Asia, ketosis was probably seasonal for many 1000s of years, and again during scarcity.

    I believe it is only the Inuit who adapted to make ketosis less common. Perhaps Russia's arctic peoples too? I dont know if it applies to them too.

    I suspect it's the case for any population that has a diet that would otherwise result in consistent ketosis.

    As you mention northern Europe, that was my point -- if we are talking "eating seasonally or locally," that does not necessarily mean low carb at all (let alone keto levels), and did not for most of recorded history in most of Europe. Vikings, for example, ate among other things bread, porridge, and other forms of oats.

    Again, it depends on the time period. Farming so one eats higher carb rather than just a few grains here and there, is much newer to northern europe than agriculture is the the Mediterranean area.

    Agree, but I think there's a common misunderstanding about what people in paleo times ate (due to the paleo diet).

    More significantly, your word choice "eating seasonally or locally" suggested that you thought that people in cold climates ate at keto levels of carbs more generally and until pretty recently, so I wanted to clarify. I know on some of the carnivore websites they try to claim that the natural human diet (not that there is such a thing) is basically mostly meat.
  • nvmomketo
    nvmomketo Posts: 12,019 Member
    Options
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    nvmomketo wrote: »
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    nvmomketo wrote: »
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    nvmomketo wrote: »
    TeaBea wrote: »
    Gisel2015 wrote: »
    I never did keto (I don’t think that it was around 9 years go), and I am not planning to follow that diet anytime soon either. Not only because I am already in maintenance, but because I don’t like the food limitations that the diet requires.

    I don’t feel good with too much fat (Keto) just like I don’t feel good with too many carbs. I need to keep a balance, and I do better when my carbs and protein are around the 35% level for both, and fat is about 30%.

    I like fruits and vegetables (fiber), and I enjoy yogurt and cheese; and even when I don’t eat pasta or a lot of deserts, and I eat potatoes, beans and rice on occasion, I still want to have the flexibility to enjoy them if I want to. I don’t care for any diet that restricts foods and nutrients, unless it is for medical reasons.

    Keto has been around since the 1920's. Initially a diet for people with epilepsy. Medicines at that time were less effective than now.

    Not for me. Basically if I won't do it forever, I won't do it to lose weight.

    Ketogenic diets have been around longer than that, but it was just called eating seasonally or locally. ;)

    Not really. People ate plenty of carbs in the winter/early spring like root veg, grains, peas, beans and lentils, etc.

    Depending on the period being discussed, many people might not have had access to much meat at all. And of course in Europe in early spring during the middle ages people would give up eggs, dairy, and meat (Lent), so clearly they can't have had only those things available to eat.

    In areas where the diet otherwise would be ketogenic, people seem to adapt by becoming less likely to go into ketosis, which is interesting.

    I would agree in much of the past, on average, people went in and out of ketosis more commonly than now, because of food scarcity.

    That would depend on where you live and the time period. Agreed.

    In Oceania, I doubt ketosis was common except during scarcity. In northern parts of Europe, North America or Asia, ketosis was probably seasonal for many 1000s of years, and again during scarcity.

    I believe it is only the Inuit who adapted to make ketosis less common. Perhaps Russia's arctic peoples too? I dont know if it applies to them too.

    I suspect it's the case for any population that has a diet that would otherwise result in consistent ketosis.

    As you mention northern Europe, that was my point -- if we are talking "eating seasonally or locally," that does not necessarily mean low carb at all (let alone keto levels), and did not for most of recorded history in most of Europe. Vikings, for example, ate among other things bread, porridge, and other forms of oats.

    Again, it depends on the time period. Farming so one eats higher carb rather than just a few grains here and there, is much newer to northern europe than agriculture is the the Mediterranean area.

    Agree, but I think there's a common misunderstanding about what people in paleo times ate (due to the paleo diet).

    More significantly, your word choice "eating seasonally or locally" suggested that you thought that people in cold climates ate at keto levels of carbs more generally and until pretty recently, so I wanted to clarify. I know on some of the carnivore websites they try to claim that the natural human diet (not that there is such a thing) is basically mostly meat.

    Yes, some (most) people in northern continents ate ketogenic levels if carbs more frequently (usually seasonally) until recently (200-1000 years ago) depending on the area. I consider a ketogenic level of carbs to typically be under 50g net, although the active and metabolically healthy can eat up to 2-5 times more carbs and stay ketogenic if they eat around when they are very active.

    These people were not eating almond flour flat breads, or avocados, or organic honey or whatever else is in the Paleo brand diet. I was not thinking paleo, just what foods i know that were available to those nomadic people. Most in those areas did not eat a carnivore diet, although it was animal heavy. I am sure they enjoyed berries and roots, perhaps even the occasional green , I the late summer and early fall. Some of it was even mixed into high fat meats for flavour for late winter foods.

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