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Keto diet -pros and cons
Replies
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My view of Keto is based on modern research and personal and other peoples experiences. I'm not going to address each of everyone's comments because I have a good life and I am confident in what I said. My hope is that someone who is struggling with traditional diets won't be discouraged by the misinformation about ketosis dieting on MFP. And they understand it's hard at first. If you get into it and need support to find a support group on facebook or something. I don't think you'll find it on this site.
My understanding is that there are some fairly active keto support groups operating on MFP, as well as experienced members who have had long term success with it. I'm not sure what misinformation you're referring to.9 -
My view of Keto is based on modern research and personal and other peoples experiences. I'm not going to address each of everyone's comments because I have a good life and I am confident in what I said. My hope is that someone who is struggling with traditional diets won't be discouraged by the misinformation about ketosis dieting on MFP. And they understand it's hard at first. If you get into it and need support to find a support group on facebook or something. I don't think you'll find it on this site.
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/group/394-low-carber-daily-forum
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/group/1143-keto
Just two of the most active groups (with very friendly and knowledgeable members) that support low-carb and keto5 -
allysasmith105 wrote: »Hi,
I’m looking to lose around 40-50 pounds. Currently , I am watching my caloric intake. Meaning, I eat foods that I like, just count my Calories and stick to my daily allowance. I’ve heard mixed reviews on the Keto diet. What are the long term effects? For those have done Keto, is it hard to stay consistent? Those who aren’t on the Keto diet, what works for you? Any pros vs cons on this diet would be greatly appreciated
Depends on whether or not you enjoy eating fat, fat, and more fat with a little protein and all but eliminating carbohydrates. Personally, not for me. Once upon a time I did a calculation of how much fat I would need with a typical keto macro breakdown and it was well over 250 grams of dietary fat for my calorie needs which was pretty much vomit educing just thinking about it.
I lost 40 Lbs just restricting calories...some of it with calorie counting, some of it just on my own. Along the way I made nutrition a priority and my diet evolved over time to be substantially whole food/minimally processed food based with lots of vegetables, legumes and lentils, potatoes and sweet potatoes and other root vegetables, oats, lean proteins, and healthy fats...and pizza a couple times per month.7 -
My view of Keto is based on modern research and personal and other peoples experiences. I'm not going to address each of everyone's comments because I have a good life and I am confident in what I said. My hope is that someone who is struggling with traditional diets won't be discouraged by the misinformation about ketosis dieting on MFP. And they understand it's hard at first. If you get into it and need support to find a support group on facebook or something. I don't think you'll find it on this site.
The misinformation is coming from keto zealots who are misrepresenting the benefits of their way of eating by attributing the health improvements that will occur with weight loss in general to keto alone. If you spend some time reading through threads, you will see many non-keto regulars defending that way of eating as a valid choice (some of those people are vegetarian/vegan) when the claims are realistic. Some people find fat satiating, so that eating keto can reduce appetite so that they find it easier to stay in a calorie deficit without counting calories. For those who are insulin resistant, it's one way of eating that can help manage their blood glucose levels. It can be a good choice for those who find restricting carbs helps them control cravings.
You can't eat in a calorie surplus and lose weight no matter what way of eating you choose. Subjective benefits such as increased mental acuity have been reported by people on any number of diets and food plans; if a person is eating in a way that suits them and provides sufficient nutrients then there's a high probability they will feel better than they did previously. Very few people are "bashing" keto itself, they are objecting to the claims that keto will provide health and quality of living benefits that are unproven at best, and debunked at worst.14 -
My view of Keto is based on modern research and personal and other peoples experiences. I'm not going to address each of everyone's comments because I have a good life and I am confident in what I said. My hope is that someone who is struggling with traditional diets won't be discouraged by the misinformation about ketosis dieting on MFP. And they understand it's hard at first. If you get into it and need support to find a support group on facebook or something. I don't think you'll find it on this site.
You may not have realized this, but you're in the debate section of the forums.16 -
CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »There are both pro-Keto and anti-Keto people on this site. Sadly the anti-keto folks are really misinformed. If you have to lose a few vanity pounds and are in good health it may not be for you. If you are obese with other medical conditions such as gastro problems, high blood pressure or type 2 diabetes it's perfect for you. If you lost weight countless times with restricted calories and more exercise only to gain it back each time, it's perfect. If you are killing CICO and the scale is not moving, try it. Most people who say they tried, and didn't like it, were probably never completely adapted. It takes time. If you were pounding 300 carbs a day you can't just drop to 20 overnight. Proper keto requires work. You have to test with strips, or a breath or blood meter to make sure you are in ketosis. You tend to get constipated. The transition period to fix digestive issues can take over 3 months. If you make it, you will be so grateful. High fiber makes many people much worse inspite of what guidlines and most doctors say. Your blood pressure and A1C will drop like mad. Once you are in the groove you'll start dropping your blood pressure and diabetes medicine. Long before you've lost significant weight. You will have a huge jump in cognitive thinking and mental clarity. You will feel great. You will fix your body. The pounds will come off at a rate you've never experienced before. You will learn how to make Hollandaise sauce if you don't know how to. A perfect keto breakfast is 2 eggs and hollandaise sauce (2 eggs and half a stick of real butter) and bacon or meat of your choice over 2 cups of steamed spinach. Many days one can eat this and not eat until the next day without any hunger. It's not just a fad as many still believe. It's a way of life. Very sustainable. And a much better one. The food is really insignificant when you look at the true health benefits though. The site below has over 500 thousand members. You don't have to join to use it. Look at the health benefits, the challenges, and the food you eat. Watch some of the many doctor videos. Check it out for yourself: https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb#oopsie
Good Luck to all, even the the devil Jillian Michaels (That's a joke)
well I can say I have gastro problems and keto didnt do a dang thing for them. it made them worse and it gave me diarrhea I was not constipated. my gallbladder works fine so its not that. I was keto adapted as I did it for 2 months. my gastroenterologist also said that keto isnt going to "cure" gastro/digestive problems as many of those things are caused by other issues which change in diet rarely makes a big difference. I know for me my self it hasnt. ad for the the jump in cognitive thinking and mental clarity I had a HUGE decline in mine. I didnt feel great, it didnt fix my body it made my health issues worse and those with type 2 and high blood pressure weight loss alone can improve those things keto or not. I lost 45 lbs eating more that 200g of carbs per day because I was in a deficit still. as for the hunger it made no difference I did not lose a lot of weight in the beginning either 5 lbs was the most I lost on keto and then it slowed down.
I was obese too all my health issues started when I was thin and at a healthy weight and some of them are genetic. keto is NOT going to fix those things. maybe for some that do keto will see some improvement in health issues(you still have to watch calories as you can gain weight doing keto). but for me it made my health decline at a rapid pace and I will say I will NEVER do it again. if someone else wants to do it or try it thhats their choice but people also need to be aware of the issues it can also cause on ones health. oh and keto is 50g net of carbs not 20. some athletes can be in ketosis eating more than 100g of carbs a day. it definitely was NOT sustainable for me at all. If I had kept going I probably would not be here now and thats not a joke or a jab at keto its what I experienced.
Those with familial hypercholesterolemia would be outliers though and may not have an average or typical response to lchf . Please excuse me if I have misremembered your situation.2 -
CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »There are both pro-Keto and anti-Keto people on this site. Sadly the anti-keto folks are really misinformed. If you have to lose a few vanity pounds and are in good health it may not be for you. If you are obese with other medical conditions such as gastro problems, high blood pressure or type 2 diabetes it's perfect for you. If you lost weight countless times with restricted calories and more exercise only to gain it back each time, it's perfect. If you are killing CICO and the scale is not moving, try it. Most people who say they tried, and didn't like it, were probably never completely adapted. It takes time. If you were pounding 300 carbs a day you can't just drop to 20 overnight. Proper keto requires work. You have to test with strips, or a breath or blood meter to make sure you are in ketosis. You tend to get constipated. The transition period to fix digestive issues can take over 3 months. If you make it, you will be so grateful. High fiber makes many people much worse inspite of what guidlines and most doctors say. Your blood pressure and A1C will drop like mad. Once you are in the groove you'll start dropping your blood pressure and diabetes medicine. Long before you've lost significant weight. You will have a huge jump in cognitive thinking and mental clarity. You will feel great. You will fix your body. The pounds will come off at a rate you've never experienced before. You will learn how to make Hollandaise sauce if you don't know how to. A perfect keto breakfast is 2 eggs and hollandaise sauce (2 eggs and half a stick of real butter) and bacon or meat of your choice over 2 cups of steamed spinach. Many days one can eat this and not eat until the next day without any hunger. It's not just a fad as many still believe. It's a way of life. Very sustainable. And a much better one. The food is really insignificant when you look at the true health benefits though. The site below has over 500 thousand members. You don't have to join to use it. Look at the health benefits, the challenges, and the food you eat. Watch some of the many doctor videos. Check it out for yourself: https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb#oopsie
Good Luck to all, even the the devil Jillian Michaels (That's a joke)
well I can say I have gastro problems and keto didnt do a dang thing for them. it made them worse and it gave me diarrhea I was not constipated. my gallbladder works fine so its not that. I was keto adapted as I did it for 2 months. my gastroenterologist also said that keto isnt going to "cure" gastro/digestive problems as many of those things are caused by other issues which change in diet rarely makes a big difference. I know for me my self it hasnt. ad for the the jump in cognitive thinking and mental clarity I had a HUGE decline in mine. I didnt feel great, it didnt fix my body it made my health issues worse and those with type 2 and high blood pressure weight loss alone can improve those things keto or not. I lost 45 lbs eating more that 200g of carbs per day because I was in a deficit still. as for the hunger it made no difference I did not lose a lot of weight in the beginning either 5 lbs was the most I lost on keto and then it slowed down.
I was obese too all my health issues started when I was thin and at a healthy weight and some of them are genetic. keto is NOT going to fix those things. maybe for some that do keto will see some improvement in health issues(you still have to watch calories as you can gain weight doing keto). but for me it made my health decline at a rapid pace and I will say I will NEVER do it again. if someone else wants to do it or try it thhats their choice but people also need to be aware of the issues it can also cause on ones health. oh and keto is 50g net of carbs not 20. some athletes can be in ketosis eating more than 100g of carbs a day. it definitely was NOT sustainable for me at all. If I had kept going I probably would not be here now and thats not a joke or a jab at keto its what I experienced.
Those with familial hypercholesterolemia would be outliers though and may not have an average or typical response to lchf . Please excuse me if I have misremembered your situation.
My wife's GI got worse with low carb. She does not do well with high fat, especially with not having a gallbladder. And it got even worse after having a colon resecetion.
And keto just made me feel like crap. I suspect based on the low compliance rate, that all those benefits you feel apply to a smaller range of people than you suspect.8 -
wow I did not think my post was going to be controversial! just sharing my experiences!CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »that range of carbs may be good for YOU to keep appetite under control its not that way for everyone. I cant stay under 100g without feeling starved to death.This is highly individual though. Carbs have a high satiety level for me and I do really well with a woe that includes 200+ carbs a day.
note I also said in my post: "I just found out through trial and error that I personally feel best eating my calorie goal in that range of carb."
Trial and error. PERSONALLY. The original poster was asking for personal stories, were they not?
If they decide to listen to me, and a low carb range does not make them feel good, then the "trial and error" part will elucidate that for them.
You guys clearly tried different ranges that worked better for you, sorry I guess that I used a colloquial general "you" that wasn't 100% accurate to every individual experience. I've talked to a number of low-carb people for whom it has the satiety effect though so it's a possible, maaaaaaaybe if it works for you benefit. (was I cautious enough in my wording that time??)
clearly I didn't couch it in enough "this is what works for ME in MY EXPERIENCE" terms, because one misplaced pronoun sent the whole thing under scrutiny.5 -
CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »There are both pro-Keto and anti-Keto people on this site. Sadly the anti-keto folks are really misinformed. If you have to lose a few vanity pounds and are in good health it may not be for you. If you are obese with other medical conditions such as gastro problems, high blood pressure or type 2 diabetes it's perfect for you. If you lost weight countless times with restricted calories and more exercise only to gain it back each time, it's perfect. If you are killing CICO and the scale is not moving, try it. Most people who say they tried, and didn't like it, were probably never completely adapted. It takes time. If you were pounding 300 carbs a day you can't just drop to 20 overnight. Proper keto requires work. You have to test with strips, or a breath or blood meter to make sure you are in ketosis. You tend to get constipated. The transition period to fix digestive issues can take over 3 months. If you make it, you will be so grateful. High fiber makes many people much worse inspite of what guidlines and most doctors say. Your blood pressure and A1C will drop like mad. Once you are in the groove you'll start dropping your blood pressure and diabetes medicine. Long before you've lost significant weight. You will have a huge jump in cognitive thinking and mental clarity. You will feel great. You will fix your body. The pounds will come off at a rate you've never experienced before. You will learn how to make Hollandaise sauce if you don't know how to. A perfect keto breakfast is 2 eggs and hollandaise sauce (2 eggs and half a stick of real butter) and bacon or meat of your choice over 2 cups of steamed spinach. Many days one can eat this and not eat until the next day without any hunger. It's not just a fad as many still believe. It's a way of life. Very sustainable. And a much better one. The food is really insignificant when you look at the true health benefits though. The site below has over 500 thousand members. You don't have to join to use it. Look at the health benefits, the challenges, and the food you eat. Watch some of the many doctor videos. Check it out for yourself: https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb#oopsie
Good Luck to all, even the the devil Jillian Michaels (That's a joke)
well I can say I have gastro problems and keto didnt do a dang thing for them. it made them worse and it gave me diarrhea I was not constipated. my gallbladder works fine so its not that. I was keto adapted as I did it for 2 months. my gastroenterologist also said that keto isnt going to "cure" gastro/digestive problems as many of those things are caused by other issues which change in diet rarely makes a big difference. I know for me my self it hasnt. ad for the the jump in cognitive thinking and mental clarity I had a HUGE decline in mine. I didnt feel great, it didnt fix my body it made my health issues worse and those with type 2 and high blood pressure weight loss alone can improve those things keto or not. I lost 45 lbs eating more that 200g of carbs per day because I was in a deficit still. as for the hunger it made no difference I did not lose a lot of weight in the beginning either 5 lbs was the most I lost on keto and then it slowed down.
I was obese too all my health issues started when I was thin and at a healthy weight and some of them are genetic. keto is NOT going to fix those things. maybe for some that do keto will see some improvement in health issues(you still have to watch calories as you can gain weight doing keto). but for me it made my health decline at a rapid pace and I will say I will NEVER do it again. if someone else wants to do it or try it thhats their choice but people also need to be aware of the issues it can also cause on ones health. oh and keto is 50g net of carbs not 20. some athletes can be in ketosis eating more than 100g of carbs a day. it definitely was NOT sustainable for me at all. If I had kept going I probably would not be here now and thats not a joke or a jab at keto its what I experienced.
Those with familial hypercholesterolemia would be outliers though and may not have an average or typical response to lchf . Please excuse me if I have misremembered your situation.
My wife's GI got worse with low carb. She does not do well with high fat, especially with not having a gallbladder. And it got even worse after having a colon resecetion.
And keto just made me feel like crap. I suspect based on the low compliance rate, that all those benefits you feel apply to a smaller range of people than you suspect.
Your wife is probably not typical of those who benefit from keto the most either - typically those with metabolic syndrome, usually with a gallbladder, although there are a number doing lchf and keto successfully in the sub forums without one.
The only long term success rates I have seen with keto that go above and beyond plain old calorie moderation are in virta, and that was people reversing t2d. As I have said before, compliance seems to be higher when one is getting some great health benefits from the diet.
If one is not getting any benefits, or one is having added problems, it would be foolish to continue.1 -
teslac0ils wrote: »wow I did not think my post was going to be controversial! just sharing my experiences!CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »that range of carbs may be good for YOU to keep appetite under control its not that way for everyone. I cant stay under 100g without feeling starved to death.This is highly individual though. Carbs have a high satiety level for me and I do really well with a woe that includes 200+ carbs a day.
note I also said in my post: "I just found out through trial and error that I personally feel best eating my calorie goal in that range of carb."
Trial and error. PERSONALLY. The original poster was asking for personal stories, were they not?
If they decide to listen to me, and a low carb range does not make them feel good, then the "trial and error" part will elucidate that for them.
You guys clearly tried different ranges that worked better for you, sorry I guess that I used a colloquial general "you" that wasn't 100% accurate to every individual experience. I've talked to a number of low-carb people for whom it has the satiety effect though so it's a possible, maaaaaaaybe if it works for you benefit. (was I cautious enough in my wording that time??)
clearly I didn't couch it in enough "this is what works for ME in MY EXPERIENCE" terms, because one misplaced pronoun sent the whole thing under scrutiny.
As someone who uses a specific diet, I eventually learned to add YMMV to almost every post. LOL Maybe I should just add that as a signature...3 -
CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »There are both pro-Keto and anti-Keto people on this site. Sadly the anti-keto folks are really misinformed. If you have to lose a few vanity pounds and are in good health it may not be for you. If you are obese with other medical conditions such as gastro problems, high blood pressure or type 2 diabetes it's perfect for you. If you lost weight countless times with restricted calories and more exercise only to gain it back each time, it's perfect. If you are killing CICO and the scale is not moving, try it. Most people who say they tried, and didn't like it, were probably never completely adapted. It takes time. If you were pounding 300 carbs a day you can't just drop to 20 overnight. Proper keto requires work. You have to test with strips, or a breath or blood meter to make sure you are in ketosis. You tend to get constipated. The transition period to fix digestive issues can take over 3 months. If you make it, you will be so grateful. High fiber makes many people much worse inspite of what guidlines and most doctors say. Your blood pressure and A1C will drop like mad. Once you are in the groove you'll start dropping your blood pressure and diabetes medicine. Long before you've lost significant weight. You will have a huge jump in cognitive thinking and mental clarity. You will feel great. You will fix your body. The pounds will come off at a rate you've never experienced before. You will learn how to make Hollandaise sauce if you don't know how to. A perfect keto breakfast is 2 eggs and hollandaise sauce (2 eggs and half a stick of real butter) and bacon or meat of your choice over 2 cups of steamed spinach. Many days one can eat this and not eat until the next day without any hunger. It's not just a fad as many still believe. It's a way of life. Very sustainable. And a much better one. The food is really insignificant when you look at the true health benefits though. The site below has over 500 thousand members. You don't have to join to use it. Look at the health benefits, the challenges, and the food you eat. Watch some of the many doctor videos. Check it out for yourself: https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb#oopsie
Good Luck to all, even the the devil Jillian Michaels (That's a joke)
well I can say I have gastro problems and keto didnt do a dang thing for them. it made them worse and it gave me diarrhea I was not constipated. my gallbladder works fine so its not that. I was keto adapted as I did it for 2 months. my gastroenterologist also said that keto isnt going to "cure" gastro/digestive problems as many of those things are caused by other issues which change in diet rarely makes a big difference. I know for me my self it hasnt. ad for the the jump in cognitive thinking and mental clarity I had a HUGE decline in mine. I didnt feel great, it didnt fix my body it made my health issues worse and those with type 2 and high blood pressure weight loss alone can improve those things keto or not. I lost 45 lbs eating more that 200g of carbs per day because I was in a deficit still. as for the hunger it made no difference I did not lose a lot of weight in the beginning either 5 lbs was the most I lost on keto and then it slowed down.
I was obese too all my health issues started when I was thin and at a healthy weight and some of them are genetic. keto is NOT going to fix those things. maybe for some that do keto will see some improvement in health issues(you still have to watch calories as you can gain weight doing keto). but for me it made my health decline at a rapid pace and I will say I will NEVER do it again. if someone else wants to do it or try it thhats their choice but people also need to be aware of the issues it can also cause on ones health. oh and keto is 50g net of carbs not 20. some athletes can be in ketosis eating more than 100g of carbs a day. it definitely was NOT sustainable for me at all. If I had kept going I probably would not be here now and thats not a joke or a jab at keto its what I experienced.
Those with familial hypercholesterolemia would be outliers though and may not have an average or typical response to lchf . Please excuse me if I have misremembered your situation.
My wife's GI got worse with low carb. She does not do well with high fat, especially with not having a gallbladder. And it got even worse after having a colon resecetion.
And keto just made me feel like crap. I suspect based on the low compliance rate, that all those benefits you feel apply to a smaller range of people than you suspect.
Your wife is probably not typical of those who benefit from keto the most either - typically those with metabolic syndrome, usually with a gallbladder, although there are a number doing lchf and keto successfully in the sub forums without one.
The only long term success rates I have seen with keto that go above and beyond plain old calorie moderation are in virta, and that was people reversing t2d. As I have said before, compliance seems to be higher when one is getting some great health benefits from the diet.
If one is not getting any benefits, or one is having added problems, it would be foolish to continue.
I've heard of reversing diabetes on calorie restrictions, so long as 10% or greater weight loss is maintained.9 -
teslac0ils wrote: »wow I did not think my post was going to be controversial! just sharing my experiences!CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »that range of carbs may be good for YOU to keep appetite under control its not that way for everyone. I cant stay under 100g without feeling starved to death.This is highly individual though. Carbs have a high satiety level for me and I do really well with a woe that includes 200+ carbs a day.
note I also said in my post: "I just found out through trial and error that I personally feel best eating my calorie goal in that range of carb."
Trial and error. PERSONALLY. The original poster was asking for personal stories, were they not?
If they decide to listen to me, and a low carb range does not make them feel good, then the "trial and error" part will elucidate that for them.
You guys clearly tried different ranges that worked better for you, sorry I guess that I used a colloquial general "you" that wasn't 100% accurate to every individual experience. I've talked to a number of low-carb people for whom it has the satiety effect though so it's a possible, maaaaaaaybe if it works for you benefit. (was I cautious enough in my wording that time??)
clearly I didn't couch it in enough "this is what works for ME in MY EXPERIENCE" terms, because one misplaced pronoun sent the whole thing under scrutiny.
I didn't think you were intending to speak for everyone, but it's not hard to see why some did. You said: "I actually like low carb because it's good for keeping your appetite under control, keto just takes it to too much of an extreme for me." If you had said: "I actually like low carb because it's good for keeping MY appetite under control, keto just takes it to too much of an extreme for me," no one would have taken issue.
It's really, really common (including in this very thread, although not by you) for people to assert that something that works for them must work for all, so it's understandable that people thought you really did mean that low carb helps everyone with appetite. (Personally, some (not all) ways of low carbing are helpful for me and not wanting to overeat, but so are a variety of other ways of eating. I very much believe that for some people cutting carbs is extremely helpful and if someone struggles with appetite -- which of course not everyone does -- I will recommend lowering carbs as one of a variety of things to try. I do think that on average more protein tends to have more of an effect than more fat, and often the issue with carbs is choosing low fiber carbs that come with fat, and not carbs in and of themselves. But for some higher fat, lower carbs is more satisfying, and it somewhat is for me (although I'm more like 35-40% carbs AND fat right now).)7 -
CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »There are both pro-Keto and anti-Keto people on this site. Sadly the anti-keto folks are really misinformed. If you have to lose a few vanity pounds and are in good health it may not be for you. If you are obese with other medical conditions such as gastro problems, high blood pressure or type 2 diabetes it's perfect for you. If you lost weight countless times with restricted calories and more exercise only to gain it back each time, it's perfect. If you are killing CICO and the scale is not moving, try it. Most people who say they tried, and didn't like it, were probably never completely adapted. It takes time. If you were pounding 300 carbs a day you can't just drop to 20 overnight. Proper keto requires work. You have to test with strips, or a breath or blood meter to make sure you are in ketosis. You tend to get constipated. The transition period to fix digestive issues can take over 3 months. If you make it, you will be so grateful. High fiber makes many people much worse inspite of what guidlines and most doctors say. Your blood pressure and A1C will drop like mad. Once you are in the groove you'll start dropping your blood pressure and diabetes medicine. Long before you've lost significant weight. You will have a huge jump in cognitive thinking and mental clarity. You will feel great. You will fix your body. The pounds will come off at a rate you've never experienced before. You will learn how to make Hollandaise sauce if you don't know how to. A perfect keto breakfast is 2 eggs and hollandaise sauce (2 eggs and half a stick of real butter) and bacon or meat of your choice over 2 cups of steamed spinach. Many days one can eat this and not eat until the next day without any hunger. It's not just a fad as many still believe. It's a way of life. Very sustainable. And a much better one. The food is really insignificant when you look at the true health benefits though. The site below has over 500 thousand members. You don't have to join to use it. Look at the health benefits, the challenges, and the food you eat. Watch some of the many doctor videos. Check it out for yourself: https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb#oopsie
Good Luck to all, even the the devil Jillian Michaels (That's a joke)
well I can say I have gastro problems and keto didnt do a dang thing for them. it made them worse and it gave me diarrhea I was not constipated. my gallbladder works fine so its not that. I was keto adapted as I did it for 2 months. my gastroenterologist also said that keto isnt going to "cure" gastro/digestive problems as many of those things are caused by other issues which change in diet rarely makes a big difference. I know for me my self it hasnt. ad for the the jump in cognitive thinking and mental clarity I had a HUGE decline in mine. I didnt feel great, it didnt fix my body it made my health issues worse and those with type 2 and high blood pressure weight loss alone can improve those things keto or not. I lost 45 lbs eating more that 200g of carbs per day because I was in a deficit still. as for the hunger it made no difference I did not lose a lot of weight in the beginning either 5 lbs was the most I lost on keto and then it slowed down.
I was obese too all my health issues started when I was thin and at a healthy weight and some of them are genetic. keto is NOT going to fix those things. maybe for some that do keto will see some improvement in health issues(you still have to watch calories as you can gain weight doing keto). but for me it made my health decline at a rapid pace and I will say I will NEVER do it again. if someone else wants to do it or try it thhats their choice but people also need to be aware of the issues it can also cause on ones health. oh and keto is 50g net of carbs not 20. some athletes can be in ketosis eating more than 100g of carbs a day. it definitely was NOT sustainable for me at all. If I had kept going I probably would not be here now and thats not a joke or a jab at keto its what I experienced.
Those with familial hypercholesterolemia would be outliers though and may not have an average or typical response to lchf . Please excuse me if I have misremembered your situation.
nope you have it correct0 -
For me cutting out refined carbs has helped maintain my weight. I used to eat toast or cereal in the morning but would be hungry 2 hrs later and feel sluggish. Now I eat eggs and avocado for breakfast and I feel great until lunch time. My husband did full keto and lost 30lbs. Now he’s more flexible, but the keto diet definitely gave him a running start. Keep in mind he ate healthy fats and proteins and lots of vegetables (which have carbs) I opted for less refined carbs, but would still eat some rice and fruits. When it comes to your own diet you really have to think what works for you. There are so many different opinions to dieting it gets confusing. Some good things about keto is you’re not necessarily calorie (starving yourself) counting. For example instead of eating pretzels as a snack, you eat string cheese. Which keeps you full longer than empty refined carbs. I know weight watchers might say you should eat the pretzels if they have fewer calories, but what good does that do if you’re hungry all the time? That’s setting yourself up for yo-yo dieting. I think it’s all about what you are eating, not how little you are eating.10
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magnusthenerd wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »There are both pro-Keto and anti-Keto people on this site. Sadly the anti-keto folks are really misinformed. If you have to lose a few vanity pounds and are in good health it may not be for you. If you are obese with other medical conditions such as gastro problems, high blood pressure or type 2 diabetes it's perfect for you. If you lost weight countless times with restricted calories and more exercise only to gain it back each time, it's perfect. If you are killing CICO and the scale is not moving, try it. Most people who say they tried, and didn't like it, were probably never completely adapted. It takes time. If you were pounding 300 carbs a day you can't just drop to 20 overnight. Proper keto requires work. You have to test with strips, or a breath or blood meter to make sure you are in ketosis. You tend to get constipated. The transition period to fix digestive issues can take over 3 months. If you make it, you will be so grateful. High fiber makes many people much worse inspite of what guidlines and most doctors say. Your blood pressure and A1C will drop like mad. Once you are in the groove you'll start dropping your blood pressure and diabetes medicine. Long before you've lost significant weight. You will have a huge jump in cognitive thinking and mental clarity. You will feel great. You will fix your body. The pounds will come off at a rate you've never experienced before. You will learn how to make Hollandaise sauce if you don't know how to. A perfect keto breakfast is 2 eggs and hollandaise sauce (2 eggs and half a stick of real butter) and bacon or meat of your choice over 2 cups of steamed spinach. Many days one can eat this and not eat until the next day without any hunger. It's not just a fad as many still believe. It's a way of life. Very sustainable. And a much better one. The food is really insignificant when you look at the true health benefits though. The site below has over 500 thousand members. You don't have to join to use it. Look at the health benefits, the challenges, and the food you eat. Watch some of the many doctor videos. Check it out for yourself: https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb#oopsie
Good Luck to all, even the the devil Jillian Michaels (That's a joke)
well I can say I have gastro problems and keto didnt do a dang thing for them. it made them worse and it gave me diarrhea I was not constipated. my gallbladder works fine so its not that. I was keto adapted as I did it for 2 months. my gastroenterologist also said that keto isnt going to "cure" gastro/digestive problems as many of those things are caused by other issues which change in diet rarely makes a big difference. I know for me my self it hasnt. ad for the the jump in cognitive thinking and mental clarity I had a HUGE decline in mine. I didnt feel great, it didnt fix my body it made my health issues worse and those with type 2 and high blood pressure weight loss alone can improve those things keto or not. I lost 45 lbs eating more that 200g of carbs per day because I was in a deficit still. as for the hunger it made no difference I did not lose a lot of weight in the beginning either 5 lbs was the most I lost on keto and then it slowed down.
I was obese too all my health issues started when I was thin and at a healthy weight and some of them are genetic. keto is NOT going to fix those things. maybe for some that do keto will see some improvement in health issues(you still have to watch calories as you can gain weight doing keto). but for me it made my health decline at a rapid pace and I will say I will NEVER do it again. if someone else wants to do it or try it thhats their choice but people also need to be aware of the issues it can also cause on ones health. oh and keto is 50g net of carbs not 20. some athletes can be in ketosis eating more than 100g of carbs a day. it definitely was NOT sustainable for me at all. If I had kept going I probably would not be here now and thats not a joke or a jab at keto its what I experienced.
Those with familial hypercholesterolemia would be outliers though and may not have an average or typical response to lchf . Please excuse me if I have misremembered your situation.
My wife's GI got worse with low carb. She does not do well with high fat, especially with not having a gallbladder. And it got even worse after having a colon resecetion.
And keto just made me feel like crap. I suspect based on the low compliance rate, that all those benefits you feel apply to a smaller range of people than you suspect.
Your wife is probably not typical of those who benefit from keto the most either - typically those with metabolic syndrome, usually with a gallbladder, although there are a number doing lchf and keto successfully in the sub forums without one.
The only long term success rates I have seen with keto that go above and beyond plain old calorie moderation are in virta, and that was people reversing t2d. As I have said before, compliance seems to be higher when one is getting some great health benefits from the diet.
If one is not getting any benefits, or one is having added problems, it would be foolish to continue.
I've heard of reversing diabetes on calorie restrictions, so long as 10% or greater weight loss is maintained.
That is correct, and often without lchf. Lchf tends to be more effective for those diabetics who stick with it, but it isn't needed for all. Helpful, but not always required.6 -
There are so many different opinions to dieting it gets confusing. Some good things about keto is you’re not necessarily calorie (starving yourself) counting. For example instead of eating pretzels as a snack, you eat string cheese. Which keeps you full longer than empty refined carbs. I know weight watchers might say you should eat the pretzels if they have fewer calories, but what good does that do if you’re hungry all the time? That’s setting yourself up for yo-yo dieting. I think it’s all about what you are eating, not how little you are eating.
For the most part I agree with what you said, but it IS about calories. It's just that what you eat might affect how many calories you want/need. I've never done WW and think it has a variety of different programs, so might not now prefer pretzels over string cheese (I hate pretzels and am a cheese snob so don't do string cheese either, although I can eat lots of cheese). I do agree that I would find cheese more satisfying, although I could also easily overeat it (if not string cheese).
Where I will disagree is "Which keeps you full longer than empty refined carbs" -- satiety is really individual! I don't find refined carbs all that filling, but being realistic, very few people (other than those into pop) eat refined carbs on their own. If I ate white pasta it would always be with fat and protein and is filling. If I ate added sugar it would be with as much fat and be NOT filling (for me, but it might be satisfying and so worth it), but not because carbs, because refined carbs + fat. Just fat is never filling for me -- a breakfast of just bacon and eggs is not something I find filling (too little protein, too little fiber), whereas high carb breakfasts work find for me if they have some more fiber or protein.
Fat without anything else is as non-filling to be as refined carbs (and refined carbs plus fat the least -- and oddly enough these are often, wrongly, called just "carbs").7 -
magnusthenerd wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »There are both pro-Keto and anti-Keto people on this site. Sadly the anti-keto folks are really misinformed. If you have to lose a few vanity pounds and are in good health it may not be for you. If you are obese with other medical conditions such as gastro problems, high blood pressure or type 2 diabetes it's perfect for you. If you lost weight countless times with restricted calories and more exercise only to gain it back each time, it's perfect. If you are killing CICO and the scale is not moving, try it. Most people who say they tried, and didn't like it, were probably never completely adapted. It takes time. If you were pounding 300 carbs a day you can't just drop to 20 overnight. Proper keto requires work. You have to test with strips, or a breath or blood meter to make sure you are in ketosis. You tend to get constipated. The transition period to fix digestive issues can take over 3 months. If you make it, you will be so grateful. High fiber makes many people much worse inspite of what guidlines and most doctors say. Your blood pressure and A1C will drop like mad. Once you are in the groove you'll start dropping your blood pressure and diabetes medicine. Long before you've lost significant weight. You will have a huge jump in cognitive thinking and mental clarity. You will feel great. You will fix your body. The pounds will come off at a rate you've never experienced before. You will learn how to make Hollandaise sauce if you don't know how to. A perfect keto breakfast is 2 eggs and hollandaise sauce (2 eggs and half a stick of real butter) and bacon or meat of your choice over 2 cups of steamed spinach. Many days one can eat this and not eat until the next day without any hunger. It's not just a fad as many still believe. It's a way of life. Very sustainable. And a much better one. The food is really insignificant when you look at the true health benefits though. The site below has over 500 thousand members. You don't have to join to use it. Look at the health benefits, the challenges, and the food you eat. Watch some of the many doctor videos. Check it out for yourself: https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb#oopsie
Good Luck to all, even the the devil Jillian Michaels (That's a joke)
well I can say I have gastro problems and keto didnt do a dang thing for them. it made them worse and it gave me diarrhea I was not constipated. my gallbladder works fine so its not that. I was keto adapted as I did it for 2 months. my gastroenterologist also said that keto isnt going to "cure" gastro/digestive problems as many of those things are caused by other issues which change in diet rarely makes a big difference. I know for me my self it hasnt. ad for the the jump in cognitive thinking and mental clarity I had a HUGE decline in mine. I didnt feel great, it didnt fix my body it made my health issues worse and those with type 2 and high blood pressure weight loss alone can improve those things keto or not. I lost 45 lbs eating more that 200g of carbs per day because I was in a deficit still. as for the hunger it made no difference I did not lose a lot of weight in the beginning either 5 lbs was the most I lost on keto and then it slowed down.
I was obese too all my health issues started when I was thin and at a healthy weight and some of them are genetic. keto is NOT going to fix those things. maybe for some that do keto will see some improvement in health issues(you still have to watch calories as you can gain weight doing keto). but for me it made my health decline at a rapid pace and I will say I will NEVER do it again. if someone else wants to do it or try it thhats their choice but people also need to be aware of the issues it can also cause on ones health. oh and keto is 50g net of carbs not 20. some athletes can be in ketosis eating more than 100g of carbs a day. it definitely was NOT sustainable for me at all. If I had kept going I probably would not be here now and thats not a joke or a jab at keto its what I experienced.
Those with familial hypercholesterolemia would be outliers though and may not have an average or typical response to lchf . Please excuse me if I have misremembered your situation.
My wife's GI got worse with low carb. She does not do well with high fat, especially with not having a gallbladder. And it got even worse after having a colon resecetion.
And keto just made me feel like crap. I suspect based on the low compliance rate, that all those benefits you feel apply to a smaller range of people than you suspect.
Your wife is probably not typical of those who benefit from keto the most either - typically those with metabolic syndrome, usually with a gallbladder, although there are a number doing lchf and keto successfully in the sub forums without one.
The only long term success rates I have seen with keto that go above and beyond plain old calorie moderation are in virta, and that was people reversing t2d. As I have said before, compliance seems to be higher when one is getting some great health benefits from the diet.
If one is not getting any benefits, or one is having added problems, it would be foolish to continue.
I've heard of reversing diabetes on calorie restrictions, so long as 10% or greater weight loss is maintained.
That is correct, and often without lchf. Lchf tends to be more effective for those diabetics who stick with it, but it isn't needed for all. Helpful, but not always required.
Not sure what the comparison is to. Is the claim that LCHF is more effective when stuck with no other considerations versus people who have lost 10% of body weight and "stick with [maintaining a 10% body weight loss]"? I assume effective means, having less markers for diabetes? Actually, I'd be interested in knowing what even are the markers being considered, as resting glucose seems like it really isn't going to be a relevant analysis, and an actual glucose challenge is usually going to go rather poorly for someone that is actually long term ketosis.
I'm not sure that it is ever required is the point of my 10% weight loss.10 -
magnusthenerd wrote: »magnusthenerd wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »There are both pro-Keto and anti-Keto people on this site. Sadly the anti-keto folks are really misinformed. If you have to lose a few vanity pounds and are in good health it may not be for you. If you are obese with other medical conditions such as gastro problems, high blood pressure or type 2 diabetes it's perfect for you. If you lost weight countless times with restricted calories and more exercise only to gain it back each time, it's perfect. If you are killing CICO and the scale is not moving, try it. Most people who say they tried, and didn't like it, were probably never completely adapted. It takes time. If you were pounding 300 carbs a day you can't just drop to 20 overnight. Proper keto requires work. You have to test with strips, or a breath or blood meter to make sure you are in ketosis. You tend to get constipated. The transition period to fix digestive issues can take over 3 months. If you make it, you will be so grateful. High fiber makes many people much worse inspite of what guidlines and most doctors say. Your blood pressure and A1C will drop like mad. Once you are in the groove you'll start dropping your blood pressure and diabetes medicine. Long before you've lost significant weight. You will have a huge jump in cognitive thinking and mental clarity. You will feel great. You will fix your body. The pounds will come off at a rate you've never experienced before. You will learn how to make Hollandaise sauce if you don't know how to. A perfect keto breakfast is 2 eggs and hollandaise sauce (2 eggs and half a stick of real butter) and bacon or meat of your choice over 2 cups of steamed spinach. Many days one can eat this and not eat until the next day without any hunger. It's not just a fad as many still believe. It's a way of life. Very sustainable. And a much better one. The food is really insignificant when you look at the true health benefits though. The site below has over 500 thousand members. You don't have to join to use it. Look at the health benefits, the challenges, and the food you eat. Watch some of the many doctor videos. Check it out for yourself: https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb#oopsie
Good Luck to all, even the the devil Jillian Michaels (That's a joke)
well I can say I have gastro problems and keto didnt do a dang thing for them. it made them worse and it gave me diarrhea I was not constipated. my gallbladder works fine so its not that. I was keto adapted as I did it for 2 months. my gastroenterologist also said that keto isnt going to "cure" gastro/digestive problems as many of those things are caused by other issues which change in diet rarely makes a big difference. I know for me my self it hasnt. ad for the the jump in cognitive thinking and mental clarity I had a HUGE decline in mine. I didnt feel great, it didnt fix my body it made my health issues worse and those with type 2 and high blood pressure weight loss alone can improve those things keto or not. I lost 45 lbs eating more that 200g of carbs per day because I was in a deficit still. as for the hunger it made no difference I did not lose a lot of weight in the beginning either 5 lbs was the most I lost on keto and then it slowed down.
I was obese too all my health issues started when I was thin and at a healthy weight and some of them are genetic. keto is NOT going to fix those things. maybe for some that do keto will see some improvement in health issues(you still have to watch calories as you can gain weight doing keto). but for me it made my health decline at a rapid pace and I will say I will NEVER do it again. if someone else wants to do it or try it thhats their choice but people also need to be aware of the issues it can also cause on ones health. oh and keto is 50g net of carbs not 20. some athletes can be in ketosis eating more than 100g of carbs a day. it definitely was NOT sustainable for me at all. If I had kept going I probably would not be here now and thats not a joke or a jab at keto its what I experienced.
Those with familial hypercholesterolemia would be outliers though and may not have an average or typical response to lchf . Please excuse me if I have misremembered your situation.
My wife's GI got worse with low carb. She does not do well with high fat, especially with not having a gallbladder. And it got even worse after having a colon resecetion.
And keto just made me feel like crap. I suspect based on the low compliance rate, that all those benefits you feel apply to a smaller range of people than you suspect.
Your wife is probably not typical of those who benefit from keto the most either - typically those with metabolic syndrome, usually with a gallbladder, although there are a number doing lchf and keto successfully in the sub forums without one.
The only long term success rates I have seen with keto that go above and beyond plain old calorie moderation are in virta, and that was people reversing t2d. As I have said before, compliance seems to be higher when one is getting some great health benefits from the diet.
If one is not getting any benefits, or one is having added problems, it would be foolish to continue.
I've heard of reversing diabetes on calorie restrictions, so long as 10% or greater weight loss is maintained.
That is correct, and often without lchf. Lchf tends to be more effective for those diabetics who stick with it, but it isn't needed for all. Helpful, but not always required.
Not sure what the comparison is to. Is the claim that LCHF is more effective when stuck with no other considerations versus people who have lost 10% of body weight and "stick with [maintaining a 10% body weight loss]"? I assume effective means, having less markers for diabetes? Actually, I'd be interested in knowing what even are the markers being considered, as resting glucose seems like it really isn't going to be a relevant analysis, and an actual glucose challenge is usually going to go rather poorly for someone that is actually long term ketosis.
I'm not sure that it is ever required is the point of my 10% weight loss.
If someone loses 10% of their body weight and eats a bag of candy that is within their calorie budget, they will have poorer blood glucose control than someone who eats the same amount of calories in more typical low carb junk foods like pork rinds.
This also would be true for healthier meals: pasta marinara vs steak and a side salad, or bacon and eggs vs a muffin and orange juice.
Blood glucose is best controlled by what you eat. Insulin levels depend on that too. This my point. I agree that people will often have better BG if they lose weight, but BG will be steadiest and lowest in one who eats fewer carbs.12 -
magnusthenerd wrote: »magnusthenerd wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »There are both pro-Keto and anti-Keto people on this site. Sadly the anti-keto folks are really misinformed. If you have to lose a few vanity pounds and are in good health it may not be for you. If you are obese with other medical conditions such as gastro problems, high blood pressure or type 2 diabetes it's perfect for you. If you lost weight countless times with restricted calories and more exercise only to gain it back each time, it's perfect. If you are killing CICO and the scale is not moving, try it. Most people who say they tried, and didn't like it, were probably never completely adapted. It takes time. If you were pounding 300 carbs a day you can't just drop to 20 overnight. Proper keto requires work. You have to test with strips, or a breath or blood meter to make sure you are in ketosis. You tend to get constipated. The transition period to fix digestive issues can take over 3 months. If you make it, you will be so grateful. High fiber makes many people much worse inspite of what guidlines and most doctors say. Your blood pressure and A1C will drop like mad. Once you are in the groove you'll start dropping your blood pressure and diabetes medicine. Long before you've lost significant weight. You will have a huge jump in cognitive thinking and mental clarity. You will feel great. You will fix your body. The pounds will come off at a rate you've never experienced before. You will learn how to make Hollandaise sauce if you don't know how to. A perfect keto breakfast is 2 eggs and hollandaise sauce (2 eggs and half a stick of real butter) and bacon or meat of your choice over 2 cups of steamed spinach. Many days one can eat this and not eat until the next day without any hunger. It's not just a fad as many still believe. It's a way of life. Very sustainable. And a much better one. The food is really insignificant when you look at the true health benefits though. The site below has over 500 thousand members. You don't have to join to use it. Look at the health benefits, the challenges, and the food you eat. Watch some of the many doctor videos. Check it out for yourself: https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb#oopsie
Good Luck to all, even the the devil Jillian Michaels (That's a joke)
well I can say I have gastro problems and keto didnt do a dang thing for them. it made them worse and it gave me diarrhea I was not constipated. my gallbladder works fine so its not that. I was keto adapted as I did it for 2 months. my gastroenterologist also said that keto isnt going to "cure" gastro/digestive problems as many of those things are caused by other issues which change in diet rarely makes a big difference. I know for me my self it hasnt. ad for the the jump in cognitive thinking and mental clarity I had a HUGE decline in mine. I didnt feel great, it didnt fix my body it made my health issues worse and those with type 2 and high blood pressure weight loss alone can improve those things keto or not. I lost 45 lbs eating more that 200g of carbs per day because I was in a deficit still. as for the hunger it made no difference I did not lose a lot of weight in the beginning either 5 lbs was the most I lost on keto and then it slowed down.
I was obese too all my health issues started when I was thin and at a healthy weight and some of them are genetic. keto is NOT going to fix those things. maybe for some that do keto will see some improvement in health issues(you still have to watch calories as you can gain weight doing keto). but for me it made my health decline at a rapid pace and I will say I will NEVER do it again. if someone else wants to do it or try it thhats their choice but people also need to be aware of the issues it can also cause on ones health. oh and keto is 50g net of carbs not 20. some athletes can be in ketosis eating more than 100g of carbs a day. it definitely was NOT sustainable for me at all. If I had kept going I probably would not be here now and thats not a joke or a jab at keto its what I experienced.
Those with familial hypercholesterolemia would be outliers though and may not have an average or typical response to lchf . Please excuse me if I have misremembered your situation.
My wife's GI got worse with low carb. She does not do well with high fat, especially with not having a gallbladder. And it got even worse after having a colon resecetion.
And keto just made me feel like crap. I suspect based on the low compliance rate, that all those benefits you feel apply to a smaller range of people than you suspect.
Your wife is probably not typical of those who benefit from keto the most either - typically those with metabolic syndrome, usually with a gallbladder, although there are a number doing lchf and keto successfully in the sub forums without one.
The only long term success rates I have seen with keto that go above and beyond plain old calorie moderation are in virta, and that was people reversing t2d. As I have said before, compliance seems to be higher when one is getting some great health benefits from the diet.
If one is not getting any benefits, or one is having added problems, it would be foolish to continue.
I've heard of reversing diabetes on calorie restrictions, so long as 10% or greater weight loss is maintained.
That is correct, and often without lchf. Lchf tends to be more effective for those diabetics who stick with it, but it isn't needed for all. Helpful, but not always required.
Not sure what the comparison is to. Is the claim that LCHF is more effective when stuck with no other considerations versus people who have lost 10% of body weight and "stick with [maintaining a 10% body weight loss]"? I assume effective means, having less markers for diabetes? Actually, I'd be interested in knowing what even are the markers being considered, as resting glucose seems like it really isn't going to be a relevant analysis, and an actual glucose challenge is usually going to go rather poorly for someone that is actually long term ketosis.
I'm not sure that it is ever required is the point of my 10% weight loss.
If someone loses 10% of their body weight and eats a bag of candy that is within their calorie budget, they will have poorer blood glucose control than someone who eats the same amount of calories in more typical low carb junk foods like pork rinds.
This also would be true for healthier meals: pasta marinara vs steak and a side salad, or bacon and eggs vs a muffin and orange juice.
Blood glucose is best controlled by what you eat. Insulin levels depend on that too. This my point. I agree that people will often have better BG if they lose weight, but BG will be steadiest and lowest in one who eats fewer carbs.
What is blood glucose control? I know what blood glucose level is. I know what a fasting glucose challenge is. I don't know what blood glucose control is.
If you just mean one not eating carbohydrates will have lower glucose than not eating carbohydrate, I fail to see the relevance or revelation. Simply having glucose in one's blood is not bad - having zero is actually the unhealthiest number.14 -
I've been on keto since November and it has been more effective for me than simple CICO. I still track CICO to a limit, but with keto I found I wasn't as hungry as I was on a standard CICO diet. Sure the first few days are hard (body adjustments), but it's been plain sailing since then.
Whilst some manage to keep to keto for years, I intend to follow the Aktin's diet plan of adding carbs back into my diet for maintenance -- missing out restaurants and the odd beer! I actually enjoy a lot of the keto food choices and have been able to cook substitutes for most of the foods I would've normally cooked (just missing lentils!) Some of which I will continue with e.g. coconut flour based pizza dough, konjac/okara rice and noodles, etc.
====
Like any low carb diet a big pro is all the water loss in the first couple of weeks. Seeing 'results' really helps you stick with a diet, even if it's only water!6 -
I’ve been eating a Keto Diet for about 9 months. I keep my net carbs at around 20-25 grams a day. II is still about CI/CO, however I find restricting carbs help me personally to do that while still feeling satisfied. Carbs made me crave more carbs. I loved all the sugar and bread. I don’t crave them anymore. I didn’t have a lot of weight to lose and really tried it to see if I could drop the last 15-20 pounds. I am at goal weight. It is not a magic pill, but it does work for me. I also am not an eat all the bacon and cheese you want keto’er. I eat quite a lot of low carb veggies. I eat moderate protein and mostly healthy fats (nuts, olives, avocado)
Pro’s (for me personally)
Reduced cravings for sweets etc
Easier to stay within calorie range
More stable energy levels
Psoriasis has shown 90% improvement
Menopause symptoms have diminished
Hip pain is gone
Workouts are better
I no longer get belly bloat after meals
No more water retention
Cons
There is a learning curve
Need to be willing to try a lot of recipes. There are a lot of nasty keto recipes out there. Took me forever to find a decent bread recipe.
The first couple of weeks are tough. Drink water, take magnesium and eat salt!
Workouts sucked for about a month.
You will pee a lot. And it will smell a lot😂
People will continually ask if you are going to eat this way forever with a disgusted look on their face.
It can be restrictive, but can also be fun trying new things!
For me, it just works.
10 -
KaiketsuZorori wrote: »I've been on keto since November and it has been more effective for me than simple CICO. I still track CICO to a limit, but with keto I found I wasn't as hungry as I was on a standard CICO diet. Sure the first few days are hard (body adjustments), but it's been plain sailing since then.
I know what you mean, and I think better appetite control is something some experience and is a good reason to do keto if you also enjoy keto. However, I just want to point out that CICO is not the same thing as calorie counting (your comment above shows that you are thinking it is) and also there is no such thing as a "standard CICO diet" or even a "standard calorie counting diet." CICO merely means that calorie balance dictates weight loss (whether you do keto, WFPB, or any other way of eating, including eating to personal preference with no other considerations). Calorie counting is one way (not the only way) of controlling your calorie balance, but someone can do calorie counting and eat any diet -- many people doing keto count calories, and of course people who count calories often think about things other than calories (including satiety and nutrition).
I am quite satisfied (not hungry) on a non keto diet (although I do eat moderate carb at the moment and often eat somewhat lower carb, basically now I'm around 150 g and I sometimes go lower). The difference is likely personal, but it is also possible that your idea of what a "standard CICO diet" is isn't really reflective of what many of us do or the huge variety of options available, and that there are other things that also would have controlled your hunger.
Obviously, though, if you like what you are doing and are happy, as I believe you are, no reason to change (and same for people not doing keto). I just think that sometimes people have weird ideas that if you calorie count you must be committed to eating the so-called SAD (which I never ate) while counting or don't care about anything but calories or eat (dunno why) low fat, etc.2 -
magnusthenerd wrote: »magnusthenerd wrote: »magnusthenerd wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »There are both pro-Keto and anti-Keto people on this site. Sadly the anti-keto folks are really misinformed. If you have to lose a few vanity pounds and are in good health it may not be for you. If you are obese with other medical conditions such as gastro problems, high blood pressure or type 2 diabetes it's perfect for you. If you lost weight countless times with restricted calories and more exercise only to gain it back each time, it's perfect. If you are killing CICO and the scale is not moving, try it. Most people who say they tried, and didn't like it, were probably never completely adapted. It takes time. If you were pounding 300 carbs a day you can't just drop to 20 overnight. Proper keto requires work. You have to test with strips, or a breath or blood meter to make sure you are in ketosis. You tend to get constipated. The transition period to fix digestive issues can take over 3 months. If you make it, you will be so grateful. High fiber makes many people much worse inspite of what guidlines and most doctors say. Your blood pressure and A1C will drop like mad. Once you are in the groove you'll start dropping your blood pressure and diabetes medicine. Long before you've lost significant weight. You will have a huge jump in cognitive thinking and mental clarity. You will feel great. You will fix your body. The pounds will come off at a rate you've never experienced before. You will learn how to make Hollandaise sauce if you don't know how to. A perfect keto breakfast is 2 eggs and hollandaise sauce (2 eggs and half a stick of real butter) and bacon or meat of your choice over 2 cups of steamed spinach. Many days one can eat this and not eat until the next day without any hunger. It's not just a fad as many still believe. It's a way of life. Very sustainable. And a much better one. The food is really insignificant when you look at the true health benefits though. The site below has over 500 thousand members. You don't have to join to use it. Look at the health benefits, the challenges, and the food you eat. Watch some of the many doctor videos. Check it out for yourself: https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb#oopsie
Good Luck to all, even the the devil Jillian Michaels (That's a joke)
well I can say I have gastro problems and keto didnt do a dang thing for them. it made them worse and it gave me diarrhea I was not constipated. my gallbladder works fine so its not that. I was keto adapted as I did it for 2 months. my gastroenterologist also said that keto isnt going to "cure" gastro/digestive problems as many of those things are caused by other issues which change in diet rarely makes a big difference. I know for me my self it hasnt. ad for the the jump in cognitive thinking and mental clarity I had a HUGE decline in mine. I didnt feel great, it didnt fix my body it made my health issues worse and those with type 2 and high blood pressure weight loss alone can improve those things keto or not. I lost 45 lbs eating more that 200g of carbs per day because I was in a deficit still. as for the hunger it made no difference I did not lose a lot of weight in the beginning either 5 lbs was the most I lost on keto and then it slowed down.
I was obese too all my health issues started when I was thin and at a healthy weight and some of them are genetic. keto is NOT going to fix those things. maybe for some that do keto will see some improvement in health issues(you still have to watch calories as you can gain weight doing keto). but for me it made my health decline at a rapid pace and I will say I will NEVER do it again. if someone else wants to do it or try it thhats their choice but people also need to be aware of the issues it can also cause on ones health. oh and keto is 50g net of carbs not 20. some athletes can be in ketosis eating more than 100g of carbs a day. it definitely was NOT sustainable for me at all. If I had kept going I probably would not be here now and thats not a joke or a jab at keto its what I experienced.
Those with familial hypercholesterolemia would be outliers though and may not have an average or typical response to lchf . Please excuse me if I have misremembered your situation.
My wife's GI got worse with low carb. She does not do well with high fat, especially with not having a gallbladder. And it got even worse after having a colon resecetion.
And keto just made me feel like crap. I suspect based on the low compliance rate, that all those benefits you feel apply to a smaller range of people than you suspect.
Your wife is probably not typical of those who benefit from keto the most either - typically those with metabolic syndrome, usually with a gallbladder, although there are a number doing lchf and keto successfully in the sub forums without one.
The only long term success rates I have seen with keto that go above and beyond plain old calorie moderation are in virta, and that was people reversing t2d. As I have said before, compliance seems to be higher when one is getting some great health benefits from the diet.
If one is not getting any benefits, or one is having added problems, it would be foolish to continue.
I've heard of reversing diabetes on calorie restrictions, so long as 10% or greater weight loss is maintained.
That is correct, and often without lchf. Lchf tends to be more effective for those diabetics who stick with it, but it isn't needed for all. Helpful, but not always required.
Not sure what the comparison is to. Is the claim that LCHF is more effective when stuck with no other considerations versus people who have lost 10% of body weight and "stick with [maintaining a 10% body weight loss]"? I assume effective means, having less markers for diabetes? Actually, I'd be interested in knowing what even are the markers being considered, as resting glucose seems like it really isn't going to be a relevant analysis, and an actual glucose challenge is usually going to go rather poorly for someone that is actually long term ketosis.
I'm not sure that it is ever required is the point of my 10% weight loss.
If someone loses 10% of their body weight and eats a bag of candy that is within their calorie budget, they will have poorer blood glucose control than someone who eats the same amount of calories in more typical low carb junk foods like pork rinds.
This also would be true for healthier meals: pasta marinara vs steak and a side salad, or bacon and eggs vs a muffin and orange juice.
Blood glucose is best controlled by what you eat. Insulin levels depend on that too. This my point. I agree that people will often have better BG if they lose weight, but BG will be steadiest and lowest in one who eats fewer carbs.
What is blood glucose control? I know what blood glucose level is. I know what a fasting glucose challenge is. I don't know what blood glucose control is.
If you just mean one not eating carbohydrates will have lower glucose than not eating carbohydrate, I fail to see the relevance or revelation. Simply having glucose in one's blood is not bad - having zero is actually the unhealthiest number.
Put simply, those with hyperinsulinemia tend to have higher BG numbers than is health or optimal. Spiking BG, even in non diabetics, is thought to contribute to health and circulatory problems in the long term. Good BG control is avoiding those spikes and keeping BG below prediabetic or diabetic ranges. The upper limit of healthy after a meal is 140 or 7.8; lower is healthier and easier to achieve with low carb. Zero is, of course, ridiculous to consider. A healthy lower limit is closer to 70 or 4.
Good blood glucose control is staying between the upper and lower limits. How you get there partially indicates your health. If you get there by injecting insulin, chances are your health is not great. If you manage it with diet, sleep and exercise, that would indicate better health.6 -
However, I just want to point out that CICO is not the same thing as calorie counting (your comment above shows that you are thinking it is) and also there is no such thing as a "standard CICO diet" or even a "standard calorie counting diet." CICO merely means that calorie balance dictates weight loss (whether you do keto, WFPB, or any other way of eating, including eating to personal preference with no other considerations).
My CICO diet was actually a "higher protein" diet, as I was also lifting at the time e.g protein as a goal. I guess by "standard CICO" I mean sticking near the Standard American Diet ratios (I am not American, but w/e) and just lowering calories to meet a deficit.1 -
KaiketsuZorori wrote: »However, I just want to point out that CICO is not the same thing as calorie counting (your comment above shows that you are thinking it is) and also there is no such thing as a "standard CICO diet" or even a "standard calorie counting diet." CICO merely means that calorie balance dictates weight loss (whether you do keto, WFPB, or any other way of eating, including eating to personal preference with no other considerations).
My CICO diet was actually a "higher protein" diet, as I was also lifting at the time e.g protein as a goal. I guess by "standard CICO" I mean sticking near the Standard American Diet ratios (I am not American, but w/e) and just lowering calories to meet a deficit.
Okay. I wouldn't really call that "standard," as I'm sure there's huge variation in what macros even someone eating the SAD eats in that most are not watching macros at all. (As an aside, the problem with the SAD isn't the macros, as they are quite similar to those in many places with healthier diets, and many blue zones are probably higher carb, in fact). Also, of course, many people doing calorie counting (not the same thing as CICO, just one way to achieve the desired CICO balance) will pay attention to how they feel and modify macros.
For me, food choice has always been much more important than macros in satiety. I could create both low carb and high carb diets where I was always hungry and low carb and high carb diets where I was content and not hungry at all, on the same calorie level.
Also, just because I am pedantic, and the point doesn't seem to have gotten across, there are no "CICO diets." CICO refers to the truth that calorie balance determines whether you gain, lose, or maintain. All diets, including keto (whatever your goals are, could be to maintain or gain), work by CICO principles, even when people don't count.3 -
I would think that good insulin control is actually the spikiest outcome. We say that someone's insulin sensitivity is a measure of how quickly their glucose returns to a near fasting level after a glucose containing meal enters the blood stream, yes? Well the fastest level in such an incident would be a very rapid spike down, would it not?magnusthenerd wrote: »magnusthenerd wrote: »magnusthenerd wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »There are both pro-Keto and anti-Keto people on this site. Sadly the anti-keto folks are really misinformed. If you have to lose a few vanity pounds and are in good health it may not be for you. If you are obese with other medical conditions such as gastro problems, high blood pressure or type 2 diabetes it's perfect for you. If you lost weight countless times with restricted calories and more exercise only to gain it back each time, it's perfect. If you are killing CICO and the scale is not moving, try it. Most people who say they tried, and didn't like it, were probably never completely adapted. It takes time. If you were pounding 300 carbs a day you can't just drop to 20 overnight. Proper keto requires work. You have to test with strips, or a breath or blood meter to make sure you are in ketosis. You tend to get constipated. The transition period to fix digestive issues can take over 3 months. If you make it, you will be so grateful. High fiber makes many people much worse inspite of what guidlines and most doctors say. Your blood pressure and A1C will drop like mad. Once you are in the groove you'll start dropping your blood pressure and diabetes medicine. Long before you've lost significant weight. You will have a huge jump in cognitive thinking and mental clarity. You will feel great. You will fix your body. The pounds will come off at a rate you've never experienced before. You will learn how to make Hollandaise sauce if you don't know how to. A perfect keto breakfast is 2 eggs and hollandaise sauce (2 eggs and half a stick of real butter) and bacon or meat of your choice over 2 cups of steamed spinach. Many days one can eat this and not eat until the next day without any hunger. It's not just a fad as many still believe. It's a way of life. Very sustainable. And a much better one. The food is really insignificant when you look at the true health benefits though. The site below has over 500 thousand members. You don't have to join to use it. Look at the health benefits, the challenges, and the food you eat. Watch some of the many doctor videos. Check it out for yourself: https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb#oopsie
Good Luck to all, even the the devil Jillian Michaels (That's a joke)
well I can say I have gastro problems and keto didnt do a dang thing for them. it made them worse and it gave me diarrhea I was not constipated. my gallbladder works fine so its not that. I was keto adapted as I did it for 2 months. my gastroenterologist also said that keto isnt going to "cure" gastro/digestive problems as many of those things are caused by other issues which change in diet rarely makes a big difference. I know for me my self it hasnt. ad for the the jump in cognitive thinking and mental clarity I had a HUGE decline in mine. I didnt feel great, it didnt fix my body it made my health issues worse and those with type 2 and high blood pressure weight loss alone can improve those things keto or not. I lost 45 lbs eating more that 200g of carbs per day because I was in a deficit still. as for the hunger it made no difference I did not lose a lot of weight in the beginning either 5 lbs was the most I lost on keto and then it slowed down.
I was obese too all my health issues started when I was thin and at a healthy weight and some of them are genetic. keto is NOT going to fix those things. maybe for some that do keto will see some improvement in health issues(you still have to watch calories as you can gain weight doing keto). but for me it made my health decline at a rapid pace and I will say I will NEVER do it again. if someone else wants to do it or try it thhats their choice but people also need to be aware of the issues it can also cause on ones health. oh and keto is 50g net of carbs not 20. some athletes can be in ketosis eating more than 100g of carbs a day. it definitely was NOT sustainable for me at all. If I had kept going I probably would not be here now and thats not a joke or a jab at keto its what I experienced.
Those with familial hypercholesterolemia would be outliers though and may not have an average or typical response to lchf . Please excuse me if I have misremembered your situation.
My wife's GI got worse with low carb. She does not do well with high fat, especially with not having a gallbladder. And it got even worse after having a colon resecetion.
And keto just made me feel like crap. I suspect based on the low compliance rate, that all those benefits you feel apply to a smaller range of people than you suspect.
Your wife is probably not typical of those who benefit from keto the most either - typically those with metabolic syndrome, usually with a gallbladder, although there are a number doing lchf and keto successfully in the sub forums without one.
The only long term success rates I have seen with keto that go above and beyond plain old calorie moderation are in virta, and that was people reversing t2d. As I have said before, compliance seems to be higher when one is getting some great health benefits from the diet.
If one is not getting any benefits, or one is having added problems, it would be foolish to continue.
I've heard of reversing diabetes on calorie restrictions, so long as 10% or greater weight loss is maintained.
That is correct, and often without lchf. Lchf tends to be more effective for those diabetics who stick with it, but it isn't needed for all. Helpful, but not always required.
Not sure what the comparison is to. Is the claim that LCHF is more effective when stuck with no other considerations versus people who have lost 10% of body weight and "stick with [maintaining a 10% body weight loss]"? I assume effective means, having less markers for diabetes? Actually, I'd be interested in knowing what even are the markers being considered, as resting glucose seems like it really isn't going to be a relevant analysis, and an actual glucose challenge is usually going to go rather poorly for someone that is actually long term ketosis.
I'm not sure that it is ever required is the point of my 10% weight loss.
If someone loses 10% of their body weight and eats a bag of candy that is within their calorie budget, they will have poorer blood glucose control than someone who eats the same amount of calories in more typical low carb junk foods like pork rinds.
This also would be true for healthier meals: pasta marinara vs steak and a side salad, or bacon and eggs vs a muffin and orange juice.
Blood glucose is best controlled by what you eat. Insulin levels depend on that too. This my point. I agree that people will often have better BG if they lose weight, but BG will be steadiest and lowest in one who eats fewer carbs.
What is blood glucose control? I know what blood glucose level is. I know what a fasting glucose challenge is. I don't know what blood glucose control is.
If you just mean one not eating carbohydrates will have lower glucose than not eating carbohydrate, I fail to see the relevance or revelation. Simply having glucose in one's blood is not bad - having zero is actually the unhealthiest number.
Put simply, those with hyperinsulinemia tend to have higher BG numbers than is health or optimal. Spiking BG, even in non diabetics, is thought to contribute to health and circulatory problems in the long term. Good BG control is avoiding those spikes and keeping BG below prediabetic or diabetic ranges. The upper limit of healthy after a meal is 140 or 7.8; lower is healthier and easier to achieve with low carb. Zero is, of course, ridiculous to consider. A healthy lower limit is closer to 70 or 4.
Good blood glucose control is staying between the upper and lower limits. How you get there partially indicates your health. If you get there by injecting insulin, chances are your health is not great. If you manage it with diet, sleep and exercise, that would indicate better health.
Rather, I think instead of spiky, we would want to talk about the maximum of the curve, or the time area under the curve above fasting.
Also, when you say thought to contribute, do you think it is actually causative, rather than a marker associated with a deeper pathology? It would seem at odds with what seems to be your interpretation of lipid profiles, but it could be understandable with the right empirical evidence.
It seems to me in studies I've seen, a low carbohydrate dieter (as in eater, not as in losing weight) is going to have low glucose, but my impression was their time area curves for insulin response is actually kind of poor as well as the peak, presumably because of the adaptions for a LC diet - even the pancreas and insulin are against speculative production for that glucose raining day. I definitely wouldn't describe that as spiky, nor good if the free floating glucose itself is problematic.
10 -
magnusthenerd wrote: »magnusthenerd wrote: »magnusthenerd wrote: »magnusthenerd wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »There are both pro-Keto and anti-Keto people on this site. Sadly the anti-keto folks are really misinformed. If you have to lose a few vanity pounds and are in good health it may not be for you. If you are obese with other medical conditions such as gastro problems, high blood pressure or type 2 diabetes it's perfect for you. If you lost weight countless times with restricted calories and more exercise only to gain it back each time, it's perfect. If you are killing CICO and the scale is not moving, try it. Most people who say they tried, and didn't like it, were probably never completely adapted. It takes time. If you were pounding 300 carbs a day you can't just drop to 20 overnight. Proper keto requires work. You have to test with strips, or a breath or blood meter to make sure you are in ketosis. You tend to get constipated. The transition period to fix digestive issues can take over 3 months. If you make it, you will be so grateful. High fiber makes many people much worse inspite of what guidlines and most doctors say. Your blood pressure and A1C will drop like mad. Once you are in the groove you'll start dropping your blood pressure and diabetes medicine. Long before you've lost significant weight. You will have a huge jump in cognitive thinking and mental clarity. You will feel great. You will fix your body. The pounds will come off at a rate you've never experienced before. You will learn how to make Hollandaise sauce if you don't know how to. A perfect keto breakfast is 2 eggs and hollandaise sauce (2 eggs and half a stick of real butter) and bacon or meat of your choice over 2 cups of steamed spinach. Many days one can eat this and not eat until the next day without any hunger. It's not just a fad as many still believe. It's a way of life. Very sustainable. And a much better one. The food is really insignificant when you look at the true health benefits though. The site below has over 500 thousand members. You don't have to join to use it. Look at the health benefits, the challenges, and the food you eat. Watch some of the many doctor videos. Check it out for yourself: https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb#oopsie
Good Luck to all, even the the devil Jillian Michaels (That's a joke)
well I can say I have gastro problems and keto didnt do a dang thing for them. it made them worse and it gave me diarrhea I was not constipated. my gallbladder works fine so its not that. I was keto adapted as I did it for 2 months. my gastroenterologist also said that keto isnt going to "cure" gastro/digestive problems as many of those things are caused by other issues which change in diet rarely makes a big difference. I know for me my self it hasnt. ad for the the jump in cognitive thinking and mental clarity I had a HUGE decline in mine. I didnt feel great, it didnt fix my body it made my health issues worse and those with type 2 and high blood pressure weight loss alone can improve those things keto or not. I lost 45 lbs eating more that 200g of carbs per day because I was in a deficit still. as for the hunger it made no difference I did not lose a lot of weight in the beginning either 5 lbs was the most I lost on keto and then it slowed down.
I was obese too all my health issues started when I was thin and at a healthy weight and some of them are genetic. keto is NOT going to fix those things. maybe for some that do keto will see some improvement in health issues(you still have to watch calories as you can gain weight doing keto). but for me it made my health decline at a rapid pace and I will say I will NEVER do it again. if someone else wants to do it or try it thhats their choice but people also need to be aware of the issues it can also cause on ones health. oh and keto is 50g net of carbs not 20. some athletes can be in ketosis eating more than 100g of carbs a day. it definitely was NOT sustainable for me at all. If I had kept going I probably would not be here now and thats not a joke or a jab at keto its what I experienced.
Those with familial hypercholesterolemia would be outliers though and may not have an average or typical response to lchf . Please excuse me if I have misremembered your situation.
My wife's GI got worse with low carb. She does not do well with high fat, especially with not having a gallbladder. And it got even worse after having a colon resecetion.
And keto just made me feel like crap. I suspect based on the low compliance rate, that all those benefits you feel apply to a smaller range of people than you suspect.
Your wife is probably not typical of those who benefit from keto the most either - typically those with metabolic syndrome, usually with a gallbladder, although there are a number doing lchf and keto successfully in the sub forums without one.
The only long term success rates I have seen with keto that go above and beyond plain old calorie moderation are in virta, and that was people reversing t2d. As I have said before, compliance seems to be higher when one is getting some great health benefits from the diet.
If one is not getting any benefits, or one is having added problems, it would be foolish to continue.
I've heard of reversing diabetes on calorie restrictions, so long as 10% or greater weight loss is maintained.
That is correct, and often without lchf. Lchf tends to be more effective for those diabetics who stick with it, but it isn't needed for all. Helpful, but not always required.
Not sure what the comparison is to. Is the claim that LCHF is more effective when stuck with no other considerations versus people who have lost 10% of body weight and "stick with [maintaining a 10% body weight loss]"? I assume effective means, having less markers for diabetes? Actually, I'd be interested in knowing what even are the markers being considered, as resting glucose seems like it really isn't going to be a relevant analysis, and an actual glucose challenge is usually going to go rather poorly for someone that is actually long term ketosis.
I'm not sure that it is ever required is the point of my 10% weight loss.
If someone loses 10% of their body weight and eats a bag of candy that is within their calorie budget, they will have poorer blood glucose control than someone who eats the same amount of calories in more typical low carb junk foods like pork rinds.
This also would be true for healthier meals: pasta marinara vs steak and a side salad, or bacon and eggs vs a muffin and orange juice.
Blood glucose is best controlled by what you eat. Insulin levels depend on that too. This my point. I agree that people will often have better BG if they lose weight, but BG will be steadiest and lowest in one who eats fewer carbs.
What is blood glucose control? I know what blood glucose level is. I know what a fasting glucose challenge is. I don't know what blood glucose control is.
If you just mean one not eating carbohydrates will have lower glucose than not eating carbohydrate, I fail to see the relevance or revelation. Simply having glucose in one's blood is not bad - having zero is actually the unhealthiest number.
Put simply, those with hyperinsulinemia tend to have higher BG numbers than is health or optimal. Spiking BG, even in non diabetics, is thought to contribute to health and circulatory problems in the long term. Good BG control is avoiding those spikes and keeping BG below prediabetic or diabetic ranges. The upper limit of healthy after a meal is 140 or 7.8; lower is healthier and easier to achieve with low carb. Zero is, of course, ridiculous to consider. A healthy lower limit is closer to 70 or 4.
Good blood glucose control is staying between the upper and lower limits. How you get there partially indicates your health. If you get there by injecting insulin, chances are your health is not great. If you manage it with diet, sleep and exercise, that would indicate better health.
I would think that good insulin control is actually the spikiest outcome. We say that someone's insulin sensitivity is a measure of how quickly their glucose returns to a near fasting level after a glucose containing meal enters the blood stream, yes? Well the fastest level in such an incident would be a very rapid spike down, would it not?
Rather, I think instead of spiky, we would want to talk about the maximum of the curve, or the time area under the curve above fasting.
Also, when you say thought to contribute, do you think it is actually causative, rather than a marker associated with a deeper pathology? It would seem at odds with what seems to be your interpretation of lipid profiles, but it could be understandable with the right empirical evidence.
It seems to me in studies I've seen, a low carbohydrate dieter (as in eater, not as in losing weight) is going to have low glucose, but my impression was their time area curves for insulin response is actually kind of poor as well as the peak, presumably because of the adaptions for a LC diet - even the pancreas and insulin are against speculative production for that glucose raining day. I definitely wouldn't describe that as spiky, nor good if the free floating glucose itself is problematic.
I disagree. It is thought that the BG and insulin spikes will lead to damage over time.
Plus if just looking at BG spikes, you miss what insulin us doing. Joseph Kraft collected a lot of data on insulin curves and diabetics, and I think his approach makes sense: abnormal insulin proceeds abnormal BG.
My ogtt showed slightly high BG response at 30 minutes (clise to 9) but then by 2hrs my bg was well below where I started (5.6 i thknk) showing an abnormal insulin response. At 2 hrs, my bg was at a healthy fasting level... I think it was a low 4.
Some with more advanced hyperinsulinemia will have a delayed lowering after a higher carb meal. True. Some low carbers will have a delayed response after becoming fat adapted because they are no longer primarily glucose burners, just like glucose burners can't adapt to high fat immediately. Its transient. For low carb meals there is no real time difference.
Spiking high BG and chronically elevated insulin are thought to be causative, but I tend to view the factors that cause those situations as the actual root cause, mainly lifestyle and food choices.4 -
The keto diet has REALLY made my skin integrity poor, I've never had spots and now they're coming up left right and centre. Accompanied by peri-oral dermatitis, so infuriating.1
-
Never heard of a pathology of insulin itself. My understanding of the long term health effects of diabetes would be that elevated glucose itself results in glycation end products.magnusthenerd wrote: »magnusthenerd wrote: »magnusthenerd wrote: »magnusthenerd wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »There are both pro-Keto and anti-Keto people on this site. Sadly the anti-keto folks are really misinformed. If you have to lose a few vanity pounds and are in good health it may not be for you. If you are obese with other medical conditions such as gastro problems, high blood pressure or type 2 diabetes it's perfect for you. If you lost weight countless times with restricted calories and more exercise only to gain it back each time, it's perfect. If you are killing CICO and the scale is not moving, try it. Most people who say they tried, and didn't like it, were probably never completely adapted. It takes time. If you were pounding 300 carbs a day you can't just drop to 20 overnight. Proper keto requires work. You have to test with strips, or a breath or blood meter to make sure you are in ketosis. You tend to get constipated. The transition period to fix digestive issues can take over 3 months. If you make it, you will be so grateful. High fiber makes many people much worse inspite of what guidlines and most doctors say. Your blood pressure and A1C will drop like mad. Once you are in the groove you'll start dropping your blood pressure and diabetes medicine. Long before you've lost significant weight. You will have a huge jump in cognitive thinking and mental clarity. You will feel great. You will fix your body. The pounds will come off at a rate you've never experienced before. You will learn how to make Hollandaise sauce if you don't know how to. A perfect keto breakfast is 2 eggs and hollandaise sauce (2 eggs and half a stick of real butter) and bacon or meat of your choice over 2 cups of steamed spinach. Many days one can eat this and not eat until the next day without any hunger. It's not just a fad as many still believe. It's a way of life. Very sustainable. And a much better one. The food is really insignificant when you look at the true health benefits though. The site below has over 500 thousand members. You don't have to join to use it. Look at the health benefits, the challenges, and the food you eat. Watch some of the many doctor videos. Check it out for yourself: https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb#oopsie
Good Luck to all, even the the devil Jillian Michaels (That's a joke)
well I can say I have gastro problems and keto didnt do a dang thing for them. it made them worse and it gave me diarrhea I was not constipated. my gallbladder works fine so its not that. I was keto adapted as I did it for 2 months. my gastroenterologist also said that keto isnt going to "cure" gastro/digestive problems as many of those things are caused by other issues which change in diet rarely makes a big difference. I know for me my self it hasnt. ad for the the jump in cognitive thinking and mental clarity I had a HUGE decline in mine. I didnt feel great, it didnt fix my body it made my health issues worse and those with type 2 and high blood pressure weight loss alone can improve those things keto or not. I lost 45 lbs eating more that 200g of carbs per day because I was in a deficit still. as for the hunger it made no difference I did not lose a lot of weight in the beginning either 5 lbs was the most I lost on keto and then it slowed down.
I was obese too all my health issues started when I was thin and at a healthy weight and some of them are genetic. keto is NOT going to fix those things. maybe for some that do keto will see some improvement in health issues(you still have to watch calories as you can gain weight doing keto). but for me it made my health decline at a rapid pace and I will say I will NEVER do it again. if someone else wants to do it or try it thhats their choice but people also need to be aware of the issues it can also cause on ones health. oh and keto is 50g net of carbs not 20. some athletes can be in ketosis eating more than 100g of carbs a day. it definitely was NOT sustainable for me at all. If I had kept going I probably would not be here now and thats not a joke or a jab at keto its what I experienced.
Those with familial hypercholesterolemia would be outliers though and may not have an average or typical response to lchf . Please excuse me if I have misremembered your situation.
My wife's GI got worse with low carb. She does not do well with high fat, especially with not having a gallbladder. And it got even worse after having a colon resecetion.
And keto just made me feel like crap. I suspect based on the low compliance rate, that all those benefits you feel apply to a smaller range of people than you suspect.
Your wife is probably not typical of those who benefit from keto the most either - typically those with metabolic syndrome, usually with a gallbladder, although there are a number doing lchf and keto successfully in the sub forums without one.
The only long term success rates I have seen with keto that go above and beyond plain old calorie moderation are in virta, and that was people reversing t2d. As I have said before, compliance seems to be higher when one is getting some great health benefits from the diet.
If one is not getting any benefits, or one is having added problems, it would be foolish to continue.
I've heard of reversing diabetes on calorie restrictions, so long as 10% or greater weight loss is maintained.
That is correct, and often without lchf. Lchf tends to be more effective for those diabetics who stick with it, but it isn't needed for all. Helpful, but not always required.
Not sure what the comparison is to. Is the claim that LCHF is more effective when stuck with no other considerations versus people who have lost 10% of body weight and "stick with [maintaining a 10% body weight loss]"? I assume effective means, having less markers for diabetes? Actually, I'd be interested in knowing what even are the markers being considered, as resting glucose seems like it really isn't going to be a relevant analysis, and an actual glucose challenge is usually going to go rather poorly for someone that is actually long term ketosis.
I'm not sure that it is ever required is the point of my 10% weight loss.
If someone loses 10% of their body weight and eats a bag of candy that is within their calorie budget, they will have poorer blood glucose control than someone who eats the same amount of calories in more typical low carb junk foods like pork rinds.
This also would be true for healthier meals: pasta marinara vs steak and a side salad, or bacon and eggs vs a muffin and orange juice.
Blood glucose is best controlled by what you eat. Insulin levels depend on that too. This my point. I agree that people will often have better BG if they lose weight, but BG will be steadiest and lowest in one who eats fewer carbs.
What is blood glucose control? I know what blood glucose level is. I know what a fasting glucose challenge is. I don't know what blood glucose control is.
If you just mean one not eating carbohydrates will have lower glucose than not eating carbohydrate, I fail to see the relevance or revelation. Simply having glucose in one's blood is not bad - having zero is actually the unhealthiest number.
Put simply, those with hyperinsulinemia tend to have higher BG numbers than is health or optimal. Spiking BG, even in non diabetics, is thought to contribute to health and circulatory problems in the long term. Good BG control is avoiding those spikes and keeping BG below prediabetic or diabetic ranges. The upper limit of healthy after a meal is 140 or 7.8; lower is healthier and easier to achieve with low carb. Zero is, of course, ridiculous to consider. A healthy lower limit is closer to 70 or 4.
Good blood glucose control is staying between the upper and lower limits. How you get there partially indicates your health. If you get there by injecting insulin, chances are your health is not great. If you manage it with diet, sleep and exercise, that would indicate better health.
I would think that good insulin control is actually the spikiest outcome. We say that someone's insulin sensitivity is a measure of how quickly their glucose returns to a near fasting level after a glucose containing meal enters the blood stream, yes? Well the fastest level in such an incident would be a very rapid spike down, would it not?
Rather, I think instead of spiky, we would want to talk about the maximum of the curve, or the time area under the curve above fasting.
Also, when you say thought to contribute, do you think it is actually causative, rather than a marker associated with a deeper pathology? It would seem at odds with what seems to be your interpretation of lipid profiles, but it could be understandable with the right empirical evidence.
It seems to me in studies I've seen, a low carbohydrate dieter (as in eater, not as in losing weight) is going to have low glucose, but my impression was their time area curves for insulin response is actually kind of poor as well as the peak, presumably because of the adaptions for a LC diet - even the pancreas and insulin are against speculative production for that glucose raining day. I definitely wouldn't describe that as spiky, nor good if the free floating glucose itself is problematic.
I disagree. It is thought that the BG and insulin spikes will lead to damage over time.
Well, I'm not even looking at spikes. I've already said I think what would be called spikes would actually best describe what looks like a functioning system with high insulin sensitivity which I would take to be a good thing. Rather the problem would be insulin plateaus.Plus if just looking at BG spikes, you miss what insulin us doing. Joseph Kraft collected a lot of data on insulin curves and diabetics, and I think his approach makes sense: abnormal insulin proceeds abnormal BG.
Depending on the insulin curves described, it would match what I'm describing.
I'm not even positing what comes first - abnormal insulin patterns or abnormal glucose patterns - it isn't necessarily indicative of what is causative of poor health. An elevated temperature is an early indication of viral infections, but not necessarily indicative that the elevated temperature is causing damage, rather depending on the type of damage it is the virus.
Insulin control itself being an issue above elevated glucose would seem a problem for low carb as dietary recommendation. I recall a study or two that suggests saturated fat intake is associated with diabetes, but we wouldn't expect saturated fat to raise glucose.
Well if we take abnormal glucose or insulin patterns simpliciter to be indicative of a problem, that say using a low carb diet is problematic.Some with more advanced hyperinsulinemia will have a delayed lowering after a higher carb meal. True. Some low carbers will have a delayed response after becoming fat adapted because they are no longer primarily glucose burners, just like glucose burners can't adapt to high fat immediately. Its transient. For low carb meals there is no real time difference.
Would seem to imply foods that involve glucose would be inherently or very commonly correlated with foods that cause health risks.Spiking high BG and chronically elevated insulin are thought to be causative, but I tend to view the factors that cause those situations as the actual root cause, mainly lifestyle and food choices.5 -
magnusthenerd wrote: »
I would think that good insulin control is actually the spikiest outcome. We say that someone's insulin sensitivity is a measure of how quickly their glucose returns to a near fasting level after a glucose containing meal enters the blood stream, yes? Well the fastest level in such an incident would be a very rapid spike down, would it not?magnusthenerd wrote: »magnusthenerd wrote: »magnusthenerd wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »There are both pro-Keto and anti-Keto people on this site. Sadly the anti-keto folks are really misinformed. If you have to lose a few vanity pounds and are in good health it may not be for you. If you are obese with other medical conditions such as gastro problems, high blood pressure or type 2 diabetes it's perfect for you. If you lost weight countless times with restricted calories and more exercise only to gain it back each time, it's perfect. If you are killing CICO and the scale is not moving, try it. Most people who say they tried, and didn't like it, were probably never completely adapted. It takes time. If you were pounding 300 carbs a day you can't just drop to 20 overnight. Proper keto requires work. You have to test with strips, or a breath or blood meter to make sure you are in ketosis. You tend to get constipated. The transition period to fix digestive issues can take over 3 months. If you make it, you will be so grateful. High fiber makes many people much worse inspite of what guidlines and most doctors say. Your blood pressure and A1C will drop like mad. Once you are in the groove you'll start dropping your blood pressure and diabetes medicine. Long before you've lost significant weight. You will have a huge jump in cognitive thinking and mental clarity. You will feel great. You will fix your body. The pounds will come off at a rate you've never experienced before. You will learn how to make Hollandaise sauce if you don't know how to. A perfect keto breakfast is 2 eggs and hollandaise sauce (2 eggs and half a stick of real butter) and bacon or meat of your choice over 2 cups of steamed spinach. Many days one can eat this and not eat until the next day without any hunger. It's not just a fad as many still believe. It's a way of life. Very sustainable. And a much better one. The food is really insignificant when you look at the true health benefits though. The site below has over 500 thousand members. You don't have to join to use it. Look at the health benefits, the challenges, and the food you eat. Watch some of the many doctor videos. Check it out for yourself: https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb#oopsie
Good Luck to all, even the the devil Jillian Michaels (That's a joke)
well I can say I have gastro problems and keto didnt do a dang thing for them. it made them worse and it gave me diarrhea I was not constipated. my gallbladder works fine so its not that. I was keto adapted as I did it for 2 months. my gastroenterologist also said that keto isnt going to "cure" gastro/digestive problems as many of those things are caused by other issues which change in diet rarely makes a big difference. I know for me my self it hasnt. ad for the the jump in cognitive thinking and mental clarity I had a HUGE decline in mine. I didnt feel great, it didnt fix my body it made my health issues worse and those with type 2 and high blood pressure weight loss alone can improve those things keto or not. I lost 45 lbs eating more that 200g of carbs per day because I was in a deficit still. as for the hunger it made no difference I did not lose a lot of weight in the beginning either 5 lbs was the most I lost on keto and then it slowed down.
I was obese too all my health issues started when I was thin and at a healthy weight and some of them are genetic. keto is NOT going to fix those things. maybe for some that do keto will see some improvement in health issues(you still have to watch calories as you can gain weight doing keto). but for me it made my health decline at a rapid pace and I will say I will NEVER do it again. if someone else wants to do it or try it thhats their choice but people also need to be aware of the issues it can also cause on ones health. oh and keto is 50g net of carbs not 20. some athletes can be in ketosis eating more than 100g of carbs a day. it definitely was NOT sustainable for me at all. If I had kept going I probably would not be here now and thats not a joke or a jab at keto its what I experienced.
Those with familial hypercholesterolemia would be outliers though and may not have an average or typical response to lchf . Please excuse me if I have misremembered your situation.
My wife's GI got worse with low carb. She does not do well with high fat, especially with not having a gallbladder. And it got even worse after having a colon resecetion.
And keto just made me feel like crap. I suspect based on the low compliance rate, that all those benefits you feel apply to a smaller range of people than you suspect.
Your wife is probably not typical of those who benefit from keto the most either - typically those with metabolic syndrome, usually with a gallbladder, although there are a number doing lchf and keto successfully in the sub forums without one.
The only long term success rates I have seen with keto that go above and beyond plain old calorie moderation are in virta, and that was people reversing t2d. As I have said before, compliance seems to be higher when one is getting some great health benefits from the diet.
If one is not getting any benefits, or one is having added problems, it would be foolish to continue.
I've heard of reversing diabetes on calorie restrictions, so long as 10% or greater weight loss is maintained.
That is correct, and often without lchf. Lchf tends to be more effective for those diabetics who stick with it, but it isn't needed for all. Helpful, but not always required.
Not sure what the comparison is to. Is the claim that LCHF is more effective when stuck with no other considerations versus people who have lost 10% of body weight and "stick with [maintaining a 10% body weight loss]"? I assume effective means, having less markers for diabetes? Actually, I'd be interested in knowing what even are the markers being considered, as resting glucose seems like it really isn't going to be a relevant analysis, and an actual glucose challenge is usually going to go rather poorly for someone that is actually long term ketosis.
I'm not sure that it is ever required is the point of my 10% weight loss.
If someone loses 10% of their body weight and eats a bag of candy that is within their calorie budget, they will have poorer blood glucose control than someone who eats the same amount of calories in more typical low carb junk foods like pork rinds.
This also would be true for healthier meals: pasta marinara vs steak and a side salad, or bacon and eggs vs a muffin and orange juice.
Blood glucose is best controlled by what you eat. Insulin levels depend on that too. This my point. I agree that people will often have better BG if they lose weight, but BG will be steadiest and lowest in one who eats fewer carbs.
What is blood glucose control? I know what blood glucose level is. I know what a fasting glucose challenge is. I don't know what blood glucose control is.
If you just mean one not eating carbohydrates will have lower glucose than not eating carbohydrate, I fail to see the relevance or revelation. Simply having glucose in one's blood is not bad - having zero is actually the unhealthiest number.
Put simply, those with hyperinsulinemia tend to have higher BG numbers than is health or optimal. Spiking BG, even in non diabetics, is thought to contribute to health and circulatory problems in the long term. Good BG control is avoiding those spikes and keeping BG below prediabetic or diabetic ranges. The upper limit of healthy after a meal is 140 or 7.8; lower is healthier and easier to achieve with low carb. Zero is, of course, ridiculous to consider. A healthy lower limit is closer to 70 or 4.
Good blood glucose control is staying between the upper and lower limits. How you get there partially indicates your health. If you get there by injecting insulin, chances are your health is not great. If you manage it with diet, sleep and exercise, that would indicate better health.
Rather, I think instead of spiky, we would want to talk about the maximum of the curve, or the time area under the curve above fasting.
Also, when you say thought to contribute, do you think it is actually causative, rather than a marker associated with a deeper pathology? It would seem at odds with what seems to be your interpretation of lipid profiles, but it could be understandable with the right empirical evidence.
It seems to me in studies I've seen, a low carbohydrate dieter (as in eater, not as in losing weight) is going to have low glucose, but my impression was their time area curves for insulin response is actually kind of poor as well as the peak, presumably because of the adaptions for a LC diet - even the pancreas and insulin are against speculative production for that glucose raining day. I definitely wouldn't describe that as spiky, nor good if the free floating glucose itself is problematic.
Agree. IMO, if one is IR, what is best is what makes you more insulin sensitive, makes your body behave normally if, say, you eat a potato. That's weight loss for most people, and being more active. I realize there's a genetic component, so a percentage may not be able to achieve that, but a very high percentage of people seem to be able to make themselves more insulin sensitive, and it can be done on many different diets (including WFPB). The main thing is weight loss and exercise/activity.
Obviously while you are IR, you'd want to eat in a way that minimized excess insulin, which means controlling carbs at least (eating a moderate number only and in combination with fiber and protein). Low carb is one way of doing this, and for some the only way, but that's probably not true for the majority of those who are T2D or IR.4
This discussion has been closed.
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