Welcome to Debate Club! Please be aware that this is a space for respectful debate, and that your ideas will be challenged here. Please remember to critique the argument, not the author.
Keto diet= good or bad
Replies
-
With moderate diet and exercise, I had lost approximately 55 pounds. However, over the last 6 months, I noticed scale creep and was unhappy with my eating habits. Decided that for only a month I would do keto, as I know it is not sustainable in the long run. I am not eating a lot of fat, but lean proteins and eggs. Most of my protein is from fish, shellfish, and poultry. I just wanted to break some of my bad habits and this was the way I chose. It has only been 2 weeks and I am happy with the results and my snacking is almost to nothing. Two more weeks and I'll start introducing some carbs back into my diet, but will try to stay away from refined carbs (sugar/white flour/white rice). I am hoping the scale will continue to trend downward.
1 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »Pentagon eyes ketogenic diet in bid to build more lethal warriors
https://washingtontimes.com/news/2019/jun/10/pentagon-eyes-ketogenic-diet-bid-build-more-lethal/
From the article...
"Top Pentagon officials say research has shown that human bodies in ketosis — the goal of the popular and controversial ketogenic diet — can stay underwater for longer periods, making the fat- and protein-heavy eating plan a potential benefit to military divers..."
Ok...5 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »Pentagon eyes ketogenic diet in bid to build more lethal warriors
https://washingtontimes.com/news/2019/jun/10/pentagon-eyes-ketogenic-diet-bid-build-more-lethal/
From the article...
"Top Pentagon officials say research has shown that human bodies in ketosis — the goal of the popular and controversial ketogenic diet — can stay underwater for longer periods, making the fat- and protein-heavy eating plan a potential benefit to military divers..."
Ok...
That's an entirely different scenario than the title Gale typed out. Wow. No need for that.7 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »Pentagon eyes ketogenic diet in bid to build more lethal warriors
https://washingtontimes.com/news/2019/jun/10/pentagon-eyes-ketogenic-diet-bid-build-more-lethal/
From the article...
"Top Pentagon officials say research has shown that human bodies in ketosis — the goal of the popular and controversial ketogenic diet — can stay underwater for longer periods, making the fat- and protein-heavy eating plan a potential benefit to military divers..."
Ok...
That's an entirely different scenario than the title Gale typed out. Wow. No need for that.
And this surprises who? Anyone? Definitely not me.8 -
Well, I don't know about you guys, but I have been looking for a WOE that would help me stay underwater for longer for some time now.
With moderate diet and exercise, I had lost approximately 55 pounds. However, over the last 6 months, I noticed scale creep and was unhappy with my eating habits. Decided that for only a month I would do keto, as I know it is not sustainable in the long run. I am not eating a lot of fat, but lean proteins and eggs. Most of my protein is from fish, shellfish, and poultry. I just wanted to break some of my bad habits and this was the way I chose. It has only been 2 weeks and I am happy with the results and my snacking is almost to nothing. Two more weeks and I'll start introducing some carbs back into my diet, but will try to stay away from refined carbs (sugar/white flour/white rice). I am hoping the scale will continue to trend downward.
Just keep in mind that whenever you change your carb level it can affect your water weight. So don't be surprised if as you add back carbs, you add back a lb or two of water weight. I would also caution not to do low carb AND low fat for much longer than you've decided on (assuming "not eating a lot of fat" means low fat) - your body gets energy from either carbs or fat, shorting it of both is not a great idea
5 -
Deep Dive: ONR-Supported Research Combats Oxygen Toxicity in Navy Divers
https://onr.navy.mil/en/Media-Center/Press-Releases/2015/Oxygen-Toxicity-Navy-Divers
"For Immediate Release: Dec. 8, 2015
By Warren Duffie, Office of Naval Research
ARLINGTON, Va.—For the first time, ketone esters—oral supplements useful in epilepsy treatment—are being studied to fight seizures caused by hyperbaric oxygen toxicity, a life-threatening byproduct of breathing too much oxygen that impacts deep-water divers."
As one can seen from the date of 2015 this is not fresh news but back in 2015 there was less science supporting the long term viability of the keto way of eating unlike today.
Of course this is talking about the testing of ketone esters out of a bottle which I have never tried. I have been following the work of Dr. Dominic D’Agostino, a professor at the University of South Florida in Tampa for nearly 5 years.
Dr. Mary Newport's story was what got me on the keto road back in 2014. I see she has just released a new book on the subject which I just placed in my Amazon cart.
The Complete Book of Ketones: A Practical Guide to Ketogenic Diets and Ketone Supplements
https://publishersweekly.com/978-1-68442-160-2
10 -
Well, I don't know about you guys, but I have been looking for a WOE that would help me stay underwater for longer for some time now.With moderate diet and exercise, I had lost approximately 55 pounds. However, over the last 6 months, I noticed scale creep and was unhappy with my eating habits. Decided that for only a month I would do keto, as I know it is not sustainable in the long run. I am not eating a lot of fat, but lean proteins and eggs. Most of my protein is from fish, shellfish, and poultry. I just wanted to break some of my bad habits and this was the way I chose. It has only been 2 weeks and I am happy with the results and my snacking is almost to nothing. Two more weeks and I'll start introducing some carbs back into my diet, but will try to stay away from refined carbs (sugar/white flour/white rice). I am hoping the scale will continue to trend downward.
Just keep in mind that whenever you change your carb level it can affect your water weight. So don't be surprised if as you add back carbs, you add back a lb or two of water weight. I would also caution not to do low carb AND low fat for much longer than you've decided on (assuming "not eating a lot of fat" means low fat) - your body gets energy from either carbs or fat, shorting it of both is not a great idea
Try pescatarian.9 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »Pentagon eyes ketogenic diet in bid to build more lethal warriors
https://washingtontimes.com/news/2019/jun/10/pentagon-eyes-ketogenic-diet-bid-build-more-lethal/
From the article...
"Top Pentagon officials say research has shown that human bodies in ketosis — the goal of the popular and controversial ketogenic diet — can stay underwater for longer periods, making the fat- and protein-heavy eating plan a potential benefit to military divers..."
Ok...
That's an entirely different scenario than the title Gale typed out. Wow. No need for that.
Wow, talk about mis-representation...5 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »Pentagon eyes ketogenic diet in bid to build more lethal warriors
https://washingtontimes.com/news/2019/jun/10/pentagon-eyes-ketogenic-diet-bid-build-more-lethal/
From the article...
"Top Pentagon officials say research has shown that human bodies in ketosis — the goal of the popular and controversial ketogenic diet — can stay underwater for longer periods, making the fat- and protein-heavy eating plan a potential benefit to military divers..."
Ok...
That's an entirely different scenario than the title Gale typed out. Wow. No need for that.
Wow, talk about mis-representation...
I expected to see a tabloid article about super soldiers because Thanos is coming or something lol. The military tests and evaluates all manner of different diets/procedures/regimens etc, but those tests and evaluations are never an endorsement of what they're testing.
Next up: Keto makes you worthy to wield Mjolnir - (yes, I liked the Avengers movies)
8 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »mitch22098 wrote: »Keto diets as well as other diets can really help shep weight. The problem which arises is when the diet is over. Trying to go back to eating regularly causes many people to regain weight. It seems more sensible to eat a balanced regular diet, reduce caloric intake, and be mindful of portion sizes. In my humble opinion.
Why stop keto?
I have been Keto going on 5 years eating the same amount . Lost 50 pounds first year and maintained last 4 years.
I did not do Keto to lose weight but to fix health issues causing obesity in the first place .
Question is...
When you are out doing roadwork as a Keto adherent - How long and hard can you go flat out before you bonk?
Are you actually fit? Or do you just look good and maintain a healthy weight? (Neither of Which are unworthy achievements. don’t get me wrong.)
But There is a difference.
For example:
Yesterday’s bicycle ride (my “short course”)
12 miles, 43 minutes 39 seconds, average speed (lower than I prefer due to nasty sustained head wind on return leg) 16.6 mph elevation gained 630 feet. (There are a couple of buck nasty but thankfully short 10% grade hills on that course)
Average heart rate - 145bpm (male age 42)
Overall perceived effort - about an 8.
(Held back a little since short course day is also weight training day, so hit gym to lift after this ride)
Can you, as a Keto adherent do the above?
Because I couldn’t ... at my age 145 bpm is in the anaerobic regime... meaning a lot of that ride was fueled by glycogen reserves.
Something YOU don’t actually have - to be in Ketosis and maintain it, my understanding is you must be in a glycogen depleted state.
2 -
I was just thinking today about keto and not really knowing someone who has a lot of muscle mass who has done keto to get there. I'm sure someone already muscular could maintain with it just like someone already muscular can maintain it with Crossfit even if it isn't optimal for building muscle. Does anyone have any input on that? I use another site where everyone doing keto is either obese or skinny fat. That is one reason I doubt keto it very good for building an impressive physique, plus the fact that carbs provide optimal energy for power output, and buffer muscle loss. Plus ketosis requires a lower amount of protein than what is recommended.4
-
True keto is fantastic for people with certain seizure disorders and some other medical issues. It can also help some people to lose weight and get their blood sugar into a healthy range. Long-term it may not be as beneficial for the general population, but there's still a lot of research happening on it. Based on the current research, I vote no keto unless it's medically necessary because it's a difficult diet to sustain and can hinder exercise/activity performance, but I do support higher % protein when losing weight. A lot of research backs that.1
-
I was just thinking today about keto and not really knowing someone who has a lot of muscle mass who has done keto to get there. I'm sure someone already muscular could maintain with it just like someone already muscular can maintain it with Crossfit even if it isn't optimal for building muscle. Does anyone have any input on that? I use another site where everyone doing keto is either obese or skinny fat. That is one reason I doubt keto it very good for building an impressive physique, plus the fact that carbs provide optimal energy for power output, and buffer muscle loss. Plus ketosis requires a lower amount of protein than what is recommended.
Every keto person I follow, built their physique with other diets. And I have seen people use keto to get down to a lean physique, but not to build one when they didn't have a good muscle base previously.5 -
Low-Carb Diet Benefits People with Metabolic Syndrome Independent of Weight Loss
Jun 24, 2019 by News Staff / Source
sci-news.com/medicine/low-carb-diet-metabolic-syndrome-07315.html
"A new study published in the Journal of Clinical Investigation Insight shows that metabolic syndrome — a cluster of factors that also put people at higher risk of heart disease and stroke — can be rapidly (within 4 weeks) reversed by a low-carb diet in the majority of people even if they don’t lose any weight....."11 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »Low-Carb Diet Benefits People with Metabolic Syndrome Independent of Weight Loss
Jun 24, 2019 by News Staff / Source
sci-news.com/medicine/low-carb-diet-metabolic-syndrome-07315.html
"A new study published in the Journal of Clinical Investigation Insight shows that metabolic syndrome — a cluster of factors that also put people at higher risk of heart disease and stroke — can be rapidly (within 4 weeks) reversed by a low-carb diet in the majority of people even if they don’t lose any weight....."- Study had a whopping 16 participants.
- On LC, 9 of 16 no longer qualified as MetSyn after 4 weeks, after MC 3 of 16 no longer qualified, not exactly enough to consider definitive.
- I would love to see if this experiment were extended out to 6 months, would the results even out? In other words, does the LC diet just get these results faster?
- Considering the typical claims about keto, I found this blurb interesting: "They did not see statistically significant improvements in blood pressure or insulin resistance."
- Dr. Volek founded a company that sells a rather expensive private program that claims to treat and reverse T2D through keto. Just something to keep in mind. https://www.virtahealth.com/about/jeffvolek
I can appreciate that this goes to the argument that benefits of low carb are attributable to weight loss, not the type of diet. This is a small, one off study, but point taken.
Having said that, I doubt it's a good idea to stay obese but eat low carb to avoid some of the risk of Metabolic Syndrome. And if reaching a healthy weight anyway will reverse it regardless of how you eat, I'm not sure what the point is unless you enjoy eating that way. To me, what this study suggests is: if you are going to stay obese, you might be better off eating low carb. I don't think it asserts anything about the best way to lose weight, or the best way to eat if you are a healthy weight. Just my opinion, of course.12 -
I saw that as summary.... are you averse to keto, mr Slater? why not ask mr. Hawkins before you suppose?6
-
promisesstandin wrote: »I saw that as summary.... are you averse to keto, mr Slater? why not ask mr. Hawkins before you suppose?
Just a suggestion, but in a 10 page debate thread, it would help to quote the post you are responding to.
Having said that, the posters you are referencing have been here for years and have had many debates over that time and are no doubt well versed in each others' viewpoints
Sometimes it can be hard to tell for newer posters, but some conversations have been going on here for years, across multiple threads! 9 -
promisesstandin wrote: »I saw that as summary.... are you averse to keto, mr Slater? why not ask mr. Hawkins before you suppose?
Just a suggestion, but in a 10 page debate thread, it would help to quote the post you are responding to.
Having said that, the posters you are referencing have been here for years and have had many debates over that time and are no doubt well versed in each others' viewpoints Sometimes it can be hard to tell for newer posters, but some conversations have been going on here for years, across multiple threads!
I'd be a little more pointed about this, though not specific.
Some of us have been reading and posting for years. It's important for those who may plan to be around for a while to realize that readers begin to remember one's MFP user name, and as a consequence we develop a reputation from the cumulative impact of our posts. That reputation may be positive in some others' view, but negative in different others' view. Inevitably, it follows us around. (Perhaps no one on the internet knows if you're a dog, but if you hang out someplace for a while, they form an opinion about whether you're a Good Dog or not. ).
Add to that that in some cases, the same participants have been arguing the same ground over and over. Their exchanges begin to get telegraphic - not as detailed or analytic about why a conclusion was reached, just asserting the conclusion. That's understandable in human terms, but not as helpful to those new to the forums, and it can lead to reputational negatives for the participants.promisesstandin wrote: »I saw that as summary.... are you averse to keto, mr Slater? why not ask mr. Hawkins before you suppose?
I think many of us are not averse to keto, for those it suits. I'm not, for example, even though I'm not a keto practitioner myself. I think it's a good choice for people who either (1) have a relevant health condition that may benefit from keto, or (2) find that keto reduces craving and appetite, thus makes weight loss more doable. Not everyone meets those conditions, and I don't see why they should be urged toward keto. To each his/her own best strategy!
What gets a lot of push-back is advocacy for any way of eating that's insistent, in the face of pretty limited evidence that it's objectively the very best practice for everyone; or that cherry-picks research (or worse yet advocacy blog posts!) to argue for its objective supremacy. (For example, I've been vegetarian for 45 years, but push back when people make inaccurate representations about its benefits. People making poorly-founded arguments about vegetarianism make the rest of us look bad, frankly.)
Personally, I'd go further than kimny concerning the study report Gale just posted. If I had metabolic syndrome, I might consider trying keto as a start to my weight loss effort, assuming it wasn't monstrously difficult for me to comply with, just as a bet-hedge in case it would get me out of metabolic syndrome more quickly. I might or might not stick with it if I didn't see those results personally, or might return to a more conventional way of eating once in a weight class that made metabolic syndrome less likely - would quit, certainly, if I found it undesirable/unpleasant and without compensatory value.
IMO, none of this needs to be like a religious war. Any way of eating that allows for adequate nutrition, and works for an individual, ought to be fine.9 -
For me it works .
I no longer bing eat .4 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »Low-Carb Diet Benefits People with Metabolic Syndrome Independent of Weight Loss
Jun 24, 2019 by News Staff / Source
sci-news.com/medicine/low-carb-diet-metabolic-syndrome-07315.html
"A new study published in the Journal of Clinical Investigation Insight shows that metabolic syndrome — a cluster of factors that also put people at higher risk of heart disease and stroke — can be rapidly (within 4 weeks) reversed by a low-carb diet in the majority of people even if they don’t lose any weight....."- Study had a whopping 16 participants.
- On LC, 9 of 16 no longer qualified as MetSyn after 4 weeks, after MC 3 of 16 no longer qualified, not exactly enough to consider definitive.
- I would love to see if this experiment were extended out to 6 months, would the results even out? In other words, does the LC diet just get these results faster?
- Considering the typical claims about keto, I found this blurb interesting: "They did not see statistically significant improvements in blood pressure or insulin resistance."
- Dr. Volek founded a company that sells a rather expensive private program that claims to treat and reverse T2D through keto. Just something to keep in mind. https://www.virtahealth.com/about/jeffvolek
I can appreciate that this goes to the argument that benefits of low carb are attributable to weight loss, not the type of diet. This is a small, one off study, but point taken.
Having said that, I doubt it's a good idea to stay obese but eat low carb to avoid some of the risk of Metabolic Syndrome. And if reaching a healthy weight anyway will reverse it regardless of how you eat, I'm not sure what the point is unless you enjoy eating that way. To me, what this study suggests is: if you are going to stay obese, you might be better off eating low carb. I don't think it asserts anything about the best way to lose weight, or the best way to eat if you are a healthy weight. Just my opinion, of course.
Low carb is not for weight loss but to see if it will help resolve the health issues that lead to obesity initially since obesity does not seem to be a primary disease but a secondary disease due to some.
The short n=16 study was only about reducing the known risk factors of heart disease which is a major cause of death in the USA.
Below is some research on the impact of eating protein, fats and carbs on the gut microbiome that may be of interest to some reading on the subject. The quoted text typically is from the start of different section of the research paper that would be best to read fully in interested in the subject matter.
Influence of diet on the gut microbiome and implications for human health
https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5385025/
"Protein
The effects of dietary protein on the gut microbiota were first described in 1977."
"Fats
Consumption of high saturated and trans fat diets is thought to increase the risk of cardiovascular disease through upregulation of blood total- and LDL-cholesterol [43, 44]."
"Carbohydrates
Digestible carbohydrates (starch, sugars)
Carbohydrates are possibly the most well studied dietary component for their ability to modify the gut microbiome (studies listed in Table 4)."
"The artificial sweeteners saccharin, sucralose, and aspartame represent another dietary controversy. Artificial sweeteners were originally marketed as a health-conscious, no-calorie food option that could be used to replace natural sugar. Recent evidence from Suez et al. suggests that consumption of all types of artificial sweeteners is actually more likely to induce glucose intolerance than consumption of pure glucose and sucrose. Interestingly, artificial sweeteners are thought to mediate this effect through alteration of gut microbiota." The bold text is my doing for a special person that is struggling with this health risk.
"Besides immunity, gut microorganisms have also been shown to impact host metabolic health. Individuals with metabolic disorders such as obesity and diabetes have been shown to have intestinal dysbiosis in relation to healthy individuals [148, 149]. Further characterization of the link between the gut microbiome and obesity has revealed several bacterial groups that may specifically contribute to the disease." Note: Bolding in this paragraph is to highlight that obesity primarily is a metabolic disorder that can cause obesity as a side effect of a primary health disorder. Truly healthy people or other animals do not become obese. Over eating is not a primary cause of obesity in a medical sense. Calories are units of energy. Macros are what that primarily leads to a positive or negative gut microbiome. The gut brain connection illustrates how what we want to put into our mouths can be influenced by one's own gut microbiome demands.
Binging is one example of this. Totally healthy people do not binge eat from what I can read or my experience since Oct 2014 at the age of 63. If some have medical science links that prove my personal experiences of the past 5 years of eating Low Carb High Fat are not factual and or that this research report is not factual please post the links and we can debate from that point.
9 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »Low carb is not for weight loss but to see if it will help resolve the health issues that lead to obesity initially since obesity does not seem to be a primary disease but a secondary disease due to some.
I think you are putting the cart before the horse...
8 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »Low-Carb Diet Benefits People with Metabolic Syndrome Independent of Weight Loss
Jun 24, 2019 by News Staff / Source
sci-news.com/medicine/low-carb-diet-metabolic-syndrome-07315.html
"A new study published in the Journal of Clinical Investigation Insight shows that metabolic syndrome — a cluster of factors that also put people at higher risk of heart disease and stroke — can be rapidly (within 4 weeks) reversed by a low-carb diet in the majority of people even if they don’t lose any weight....."- Study had a whopping 16 participants.
- On LC, 9 of 16 no longer qualified as MetSyn after 4 weeks, after MC 3 of 16 no longer qualified, not exactly enough to consider definitive.
- I would love to see if this experiment were extended out to 6 months, would the results even out? In other words, does the LC diet just get these results faster?
- Considering the typical claims about keto, I found this blurb interesting: "They did not see statistically significant improvements in blood pressure or insulin resistance."
- Dr. Volek founded a company that sells a rather expensive private program that claims to treat and reverse T2D through keto. Just something to keep in mind. https://www.virtahealth.com/about/jeffvolek
I can appreciate that this goes to the argument that benefits of low carb are attributable to weight loss, not the type of diet. This is a small, one off study, but point taken.
Having said that, I doubt it's a good idea to stay obese but eat low carb to avoid some of the risk of Metabolic Syndrome. And if reaching a healthy weight anyway will reverse it regardless of how you eat, I'm not sure what the point is unless you enjoy eating that way. To me, what this study suggests is: if you are going to stay obese, you might be better off eating low carb. I don't think it asserts anything about the best way to lose weight, or the best way to eat if you are a healthy weight. Just my opinion, of course.
Low carb is not for weight loss but to see if it will help resolve the health issues that lead to obesity initially since obesity does not seem to be a primary disease but a secondary disease due to some.
The short n=16 study was only about reducing the known risk factors of heart disease which is a major cause of death in the USA.
Below is some research on the impact of eating protein, fats and carbs on the gut microbiome that may be of interest to some reading on the subject. The quoted text typically is from the start of different section of the research paper that would be best to read fully in interested in the subject matter.
Influence of diet on the gut microbiome and implications for human health
https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5385025/
"Protein
The effects of dietary protein on the gut microbiota were first described in 1977."
"Fats
Consumption of high saturated and trans fat diets is thought to increase the risk of cardiovascular disease through upregulation of blood total- and LDL-cholesterol [43, 44]."
"Carbohydrates
Digestible carbohydrates (starch, sugars)
Carbohydrates are possibly the most well studied dietary component for their ability to modify the gut microbiome (studies listed in Table 4)."
"The artificial sweeteners saccharin, sucralose, and aspartame represent another dietary controversy. Artificial sweeteners were originally marketed as a health-conscious, no-calorie food option that could be used to replace natural sugar. Recent evidence from Suez et al. suggests that consumption of all types of artificial sweeteners is actually more likely to induce glucose intolerance than consumption of pure glucose and sucrose. Interestingly, artificial sweeteners are thought to mediate this effect through alteration of gut microbiota." The bold text is my doing for a special person that is struggling with this health risk.
"Besides immunity, gut microorganisms have also been shown to impact host metabolic health. Individuals with metabolic disorders such as obesity and diabetes have been shown to have intestinal dysbiosis in relation to healthy individuals [148, 149]. Further characterization of the link between the gut microbiome and obesity has revealed several bacterial groups that may specifically contribute to the disease." Note: Bolding in this paragraph is to highlight that obesity primarily is a metabolic disorder that can cause obesity as a side effect of a primary health disorder. Truly healthy people or other animals do not become obese. Over eating is not a primary cause of obesity in a medical sense. Calories are units of energy. Macros are what that primarily leads to a positive or negative gut microbiome. The gut brain connection illustrates how what we want to put into our mouths can be influenced by one's own gut microbiome demands.
Binging is one example of this. Totally healthy people do not binge eat from what I can read or my experience since Oct 2014 at the age of 63. If some have medical science links that prove my personal experiences of the past 5 years of eating Low Carb High Fat are not factual and or that this research report is not factual please post the links and we can debate from that point.
Please do tell me what is wrong with me that causes my binge eating please. And indeed how it is that this thing has been wrong with me for the last forty years without any other apparent impact.6 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »Low-Carb Diet Benefits People with Metabolic Syndrome Independent of Weight Loss
Jun 24, 2019 by News Staff / Source
sci-news.com/medicine/low-carb-diet-metabolic-syndrome-07315.html
"A new study published in the Journal of Clinical Investigation Insight shows that metabolic syndrome — a cluster of factors that also put people at higher risk of heart disease and stroke — can be rapidly (within 4 weeks) reversed by a low-carb diet in the majority of people even if they don’t lose any weight....."- Study had a whopping 16 participants.
- On LC, 9 of 16 no longer qualified as MetSyn after 4 weeks, after MC 3 of 16 no longer qualified, not exactly enough to consider definitive.
- I would love to see if this experiment were extended out to 6 months, would the results even out? In other words, does the LC diet just get these results faster?
- Considering the typical claims about keto, I found this blurb interesting: "They did not see statistically significant improvements in blood pressure or insulin resistance."
- Dr. Volek founded a company that sells a rather expensive private program that claims to treat and reverse T2D through keto. Just something to keep in mind. https://www.virtahealth.com/about/jeffvolek
I can appreciate that this goes to the argument that benefits of low carb are attributable to weight loss, not the type of diet. This is a small, one off study, but point taken.
Having said that, I doubt it's a good idea to stay obese but eat low carb to avoid some of the risk of Metabolic Syndrome. And if reaching a healthy weight anyway will reverse it regardless of how you eat, I'm not sure what the point is unless you enjoy eating that way. To me, what this study suggests is: if you are going to stay obese, you might be better off eating low carb. I don't think it asserts anything about the best way to lose weight, or the best way to eat if you are a healthy weight. Just my opinion, of course.
Low carb is not for weight loss but to see if it will help resolve the health issues that lead to obesity initially since obesity does not seem to be a primary disease but a secondary disease due to some.
The short n=16 study was only about reducing the known risk factors of heart disease which is a major cause of death in the USA.
Below is some research on the impact of eating protein, fats and carbs on the gut microbiome that may be of interest to some reading on the subject. The quoted text typically is from the start of different section of the research paper that would be best to read fully in interested in the subject matter.
Influence of diet on the gut microbiome and implications for human health
https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5385025/
"Protein
The effects of dietary protein on the gut microbiota were first described in 1977."
"Fats
Consumption of high saturated and trans fat diets is thought to increase the risk of cardiovascular disease through upregulation of blood total- and LDL-cholesterol [43, 44]."
"Carbohydrates
Digestible carbohydrates (starch, sugars)
Carbohydrates are possibly the most well studied dietary component for their ability to modify the gut microbiome (studies listed in Table 4)."
"The artificial sweeteners saccharin, sucralose, and aspartame represent another dietary controversy. Artificial sweeteners were originally marketed as a health-conscious, no-calorie food option that could be used to replace natural sugar. Recent evidence from Suez et al. suggests that consumption of all types of artificial sweeteners is actually more likely to induce glucose intolerance than consumption of pure glucose and sucrose. Interestingly, artificial sweeteners are thought to mediate this effect through alteration of gut microbiota." The bold text is my doing for a special person that is struggling with this health risk.
"Besides immunity, gut microorganisms have also been shown to impact host metabolic health. Individuals with metabolic disorders such as obesity and diabetes have been shown to have intestinal dysbiosis in relation to healthy individuals [148, 149]. Further characterization of the link between the gut microbiome and obesity has revealed several bacterial groups that may specifically contribute to the disease." Note: Bolding in this paragraph is to highlight that obesity primarily is a metabolic disorder that can cause obesity as a side effect of a primary health disorder. Truly healthy people or other animals do not become obese. Over eating is not a primary cause of obesity in a medical sense. Calories are units of energy. Macros are what that primarily leads to a positive or negative gut microbiome. The gut brain connection illustrates how what we want to put into our mouths can be influenced by one's own gut microbiome demands.
Binging is one example of this. Totally healthy people do not binge eat from what I can read or my experience since Oct 2014 at the age of 63. If some have medical science links that prove my personal experiences of the past 5 years of eating Low Carb High Fat are not factual and or that this research report is not factual please post the links and we can debate from that point.
Please do tell me what is wrong with me that causes my binge eating please. And indeed how it is that this thing has been wrong with me for the last forty years without any other apparent impact.
Please share all of your n=1 studies over the last 40 years and their results if you want a MFP peer review in your case perhaps.
In my case I had did not start my first n=1 where I left all types of sweeteners and all forms of all grains until Oct 2014 cold turkey successfully and made up my calorie loss with coconut oil. My only objective was to find a diet based solution to my 40 years of joint pain and IBS because the doctors has me scheduled to start Enbrel injections Nov 2014 that I thought would be the end of me in my weakened state of health at the age of 63.
A couple weeks into LCHF my pain and cravings started to drop like a rock and both have been well managed by diet only for over 4 years. The unplanned weight loss started at the six week mark and now I have been down 50 pounds for 4 years eating all that I wanted so never going hungry. I do keep my carbs down to 50 grams daily because of my plant based fiber that is as low as I will go carb wise but have no daily calorie limits but I seldom eat over 3000 calories a day.
In my case my binge eating desired stopped a couple weeks after I dropped my daily carbs down to 50 grams. I make no claims as to why my fuel gauge started back to working after being broken for 40 years. I expect in light of medical research my new Way Of Eating fixed my primary health issues that was causing my secondary obesity related issues since my health and lab exams became normal for the first time in 40 years.12 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »Low-Carb Diet Benefits People with Metabolic Syndrome Independent of Weight Loss
Jun 24, 2019 by News Staff / Source
sci-news.com/medicine/low-carb-diet-metabolic-syndrome-07315.html
"A new study published in the Journal of Clinical Investigation Insight shows that metabolic syndrome — a cluster of factors that also put people at higher risk of heart disease and stroke — can be rapidly (within 4 weeks) reversed by a low-carb diet in the majority of people even if they don’t lose any weight....."- Study had a whopping 16 participants.
- On LC, 9 of 16 no longer qualified as MetSyn after 4 weeks, after MC 3 of 16 no longer qualified, not exactly enough to consider definitive.
- I would love to see if this experiment were extended out to 6 months, would the results even out? In other words, does the LC diet just get these results faster?
- Considering the typical claims about keto, I found this blurb interesting: "They did not see statistically significant improvements in blood pressure or insulin resistance."
- Dr. Volek founded a company that sells a rather expensive private program that claims to treat and reverse T2D through keto. Just something to keep in mind. https://www.virtahealth.com/about/jeffvolek
I can appreciate that this goes to the argument that benefits of low carb are attributable to weight loss, not the type of diet. This is a small, one off study, but point taken.
Having said that, I doubt it's a good idea to stay obese but eat low carb to avoid some of the risk of Metabolic Syndrome. And if reaching a healthy weight anyway will reverse it regardless of how you eat, I'm not sure what the point is unless you enjoy eating that way. To me, what this study suggests is: if you are going to stay obese, you might be better off eating low carb. I don't think it asserts anything about the best way to lose weight, or the best way to eat if you are a healthy weight. Just my opinion, of course.
Low carb is not for weight loss but to see if it will help resolve the health issues that lead to obesity initially since obesity does not seem to be a primary disease but a secondary disease due to some.
The short n=16 study was only about reducing the known risk factors of heart disease which is a major cause of death in the USA.
Below is some research on the impact of eating protein, fats and carbs on the gut microbiome that may be of interest to some reading on the subject. The quoted text typically is from the start of different section of the research paper that would be best to read fully in interested in the subject matter.
Influence of diet on the gut microbiome and implications for human health
https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5385025/
"Protein
The effects of dietary protein on the gut microbiota were first described in 1977."
"Fats
Consumption of high saturated and trans fat diets is thought to increase the risk of cardiovascular disease through upregulation of blood total- and LDL-cholesterol [43, 44]."
"Carbohydrates
Digestible carbohydrates (starch, sugars)
Carbohydrates are possibly the most well studied dietary component for their ability to modify the gut microbiome (studies listed in Table 4)."
"The artificial sweeteners saccharin, sucralose, and aspartame represent another dietary controversy. Artificial sweeteners were originally marketed as a health-conscious, no-calorie food option that could be used to replace natural sugar. Recent evidence from Suez et al. suggests that consumption of all types of artificial sweeteners is actually more likely to induce glucose intolerance than consumption of pure glucose and sucrose. Interestingly, artificial sweeteners are thought to mediate this effect through alteration of gut microbiota." The bold text is my doing for a special person that is struggling with this health risk.
"Besides immunity, gut microorganisms have also been shown to impact host metabolic health. Individuals with metabolic disorders such as obesity and diabetes have been shown to have intestinal dysbiosis in relation to healthy individuals [148, 149]. Further characterization of the link between the gut microbiome and obesity has revealed several bacterial groups that may specifically contribute to the disease." Note: Bolding in this paragraph is to highlight that obesity primarily is a metabolic disorder that can cause obesity as a side effect of a primary health disorder. Truly healthy people or other animals do not become obese. Over eating is not a primary cause of obesity in a medical sense. Calories are units of energy. Macros are what that primarily leads to a positive or negative gut microbiome. The gut brain connection illustrates how what we want to put into our mouths can be influenced by one's own gut microbiome demands.
Binging is one example of this. Totally healthy people do not binge eat from what I can read or my experience since Oct 2014 at the age of 63. If some have medical science links that prove my personal experiences of the past 5 years of eating Low Carb High Fat are not factual and or that this research report is not factual please post the links and we can debate from that point.
Please do tell me what is wrong with me that causes my binge eating please. And indeed how it is that this thing has been wrong with me for the last forty years without any other apparent impact.
Please share all of your n=1 studies over the last 40 years and their results if you want a MFP peer review in your case perhaps.
In my case I had did not start my first n=1 where I left all types of sweeteners and all forms of all grains until Oct 2014 cold turkey successfully and made up my calorie loss with coconut oil. My only objective was to find a diet based solution to my 40 years of joint pain and IBS because the doctors has me scheduled to start Enbrel injections Nov 2014 that I thought would be the end of me in my weakened state of health at the age of 63.
A couple weeks into LCHF my pain and cravings started to drop like a rock and both have been well managed by diet only for over 4 years. The unplanned weight loss started at the six week mark and now I have been down 50 pounds for 4 years eating all that I wanted so never going hungry. I do keep my carbs down to 50 grams daily because of my plant based fiber that is as low as I will go carb wise but have no daily calorie limits but I seldom eat over 3000 calories a day.
In my case my binge eating desired stopped a couple weeks after I dropped my daily carbs down to 50 grams. I make no claims as to why my fuel gauge started back to working after being broken for 40 years. I expect in light of medical research my new Way Of Eating fixed my primary health issues that was causing my secondary obesity related issues since my health and lab exams became normal for the first time in 40 years.
I note that you completely avoided actually addressing my question. Maybe it’s because there’s actually nothing wrong with me?
I lost weight - over 200 lb - on a high carb diet. And yet my joint pain (osteoarthritis from an injury in my 20s) and digestive issues also dropped like a rock; one as my weight reduced, one as I stopped overeating.
It’s almost as if the keto side of things might be completely irrelevant.17 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »Low-Carb Diet Benefits People with Metabolic Syndrome Independent of Weight Loss
Jun 24, 2019 by News Staff / Source
sci-news.com/medicine/low-carb-diet-metabolic-syndrome-07315.html
"A new study published in the Journal of Clinical Investigation Insight shows that metabolic syndrome — a cluster of factors that also put people at higher risk of heart disease and stroke — can be rapidly (within 4 weeks) reversed by a low-carb diet in the majority of people even if they don’t lose any weight....."- Study had a whopping 16 participants.
- On LC, 9 of 16 no longer qualified as MetSyn after 4 weeks, after MC 3 of 16 no longer qualified, not exactly enough to consider definitive.
- I would love to see if this experiment were extended out to 6 months, would the results even out? In other words, does the LC diet just get these results faster?
- Considering the typical claims about keto, I found this blurb interesting: "They did not see statistically significant improvements in blood pressure or insulin resistance."
- Dr. Volek founded a company that sells a rather expensive private program that claims to treat and reverse T2D through keto. Just something to keep in mind. https://www.virtahealth.com/about/jeffvolek
I can appreciate that this goes to the argument that benefits of low carb are attributable to weight loss, not the type of diet. This is a small, one off study, but point taken.
Having said that, I doubt it's a good idea to stay obese but eat low carb to avoid some of the risk of Metabolic Syndrome. And if reaching a healthy weight anyway will reverse it regardless of how you eat, I'm not sure what the point is unless you enjoy eating that way. To me, what this study suggests is: if you are going to stay obese, you might be better off eating low carb. I don't think it asserts anything about the best way to lose weight, or the best way to eat if you are a healthy weight. Just my opinion, of course.
Low carb is not for weight loss but to see if it will help resolve the health issues that lead to obesity initially since obesity does not seem to be a primary disease but a secondary disease due to some.
The short n=16 study was only about reducing the known risk factors of heart disease which is a major cause of death in the USA.
Below is some research on the impact of eating protein, fats and carbs on the gut microbiome that may be of interest to some reading on the subject. The quoted text typically is from the start of different section of the research paper that would be best to read fully in interested in the subject matter.
Influence of diet on the gut microbiome and implications for human health
https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5385025/
"Protein
The effects of dietary protein on the gut microbiota were first described in 1977."
"Fats
Consumption of high saturated and trans fat diets is thought to increase the risk of cardiovascular disease through upregulation of blood total- and LDL-cholesterol [43, 44]."
"Carbohydrates
Digestible carbohydrates (starch, sugars)
Carbohydrates are possibly the most well studied dietary component for their ability to modify the gut microbiome (studies listed in Table 4)."
"The artificial sweeteners saccharin, sucralose, and aspartame represent another dietary controversy. Artificial sweeteners were originally marketed as a health-conscious, no-calorie food option that could be used to replace natural sugar. Recent evidence from Suez et al. suggests that consumption of all types of artificial sweeteners is actually more likely to induce glucose intolerance than consumption of pure glucose and sucrose. Interestingly, artificial sweeteners are thought to mediate this effect through alteration of gut microbiota." The bold text is my doing for a special person that is struggling with this health risk.
"Besides immunity, gut microorganisms have also been shown to impact host metabolic health. Individuals with metabolic disorders such as obesity and diabetes have been shown to have intestinal dysbiosis in relation to healthy individuals [148, 149]. Further characterization of the link between the gut microbiome and obesity has revealed several bacterial groups that may specifically contribute to the disease." Note: Bolding in this paragraph is to highlight that obesity primarily is a metabolic disorder that can cause obesity as a side effect of a primary health disorder. Truly healthy people or other animals do not become obese. Over eating is not a primary cause of obesity in a medical sense. Calories are units of energy. Macros are what that primarily leads to a positive or negative gut microbiome. The gut brain connection illustrates how what we want to put into our mouths can be influenced by one's own gut microbiome demands.
Binging is one example of this. Totally healthy people do not binge eat from what I can read or my experience since Oct 2014 at the age of 63. If some have medical science links that prove my personal experiences of the past 5 years of eating Low Carb High Fat are not factual and or that this research report is not factual please post the links and we can debate from that point.
Please do tell me what is wrong with me that causes my binge eating please. And indeed how it is that this thing has been wrong with me for the last forty years without any other apparent impact.
Please share all of your n=1 studies over the last 40 years and their results if you want a MFP peer review in your case perhaps.
In my case I had did not start my first n=1 where I left all types of sweeteners and all forms of all grains until Oct 2014 cold turkey successfully and made up my calorie loss with coconut oil. My only objective was to find a diet based solution to my 40 years of joint pain and IBS because the doctors has me scheduled to start Enbrel injections Nov 2014 that I thought would be the end of me in my weakened state of health at the age of 63.
A couple weeks into LCHF my pain and cravings started to drop like a rock and both have been well managed by diet only for over 4 years. The unplanned weight loss started at the six week mark and now I have been down 50 pounds for 4 years eating all that I wanted so never going hungry. I do keep my carbs down to 50 grams daily because of my plant based fiber that is as low as I will go carb wise but have no daily calorie limits but I seldom eat over 3000 calories a day.
In my case my binge eating desired stopped a couple weeks after I dropped my daily carbs down to 50 grams. I make no claims as to why my fuel gauge started back to working after being broken for 40 years. I expect in light of medical research my new Way Of Eating fixed my primary health issues that was causing my secondary obesity related issues since my health and lab exams became normal for the first time in 40 years.
I note that you completely avoided actually addressing my question. Maybe it’s because there’s actually nothing wrong with me?
I lost weight - over 200 lb - on a high carb diet. And yet my joint pain (osteoarthritis from an injury in my 20s) and digestive issues also dropped like a rock; one as my weight reduced, one as I stopped overeating.
It’s almost as if the keto side of things might be completely irrelevant.
Sounds true in your case at least. We are all different. I only had 4 weeks to dodge the Enbrel bullet in my case so my two week eating solution worked out well in my case and nearly 5 years later I can still eat all that I want and maintain the unplanned weight loss UNLESS I start sucking down more than 50 grams of carbs daily. I like my WOE and plan to do it at least until my 110th birthday party.12 -
Still waiting to find out what kind of health problem can cause overeating for almost 40 years without any other symptoms or effects.6
-
GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »Low-Carb Diet Benefits People with Metabolic Syndrome Independent of Weight Loss
Jun 24, 2019 by News Staff / Source
sci-news.com/medicine/low-carb-diet-metabolic-syndrome-07315.html
"A new study published in the Journal of Clinical Investigation Insight shows that metabolic syndrome — a cluster of factors that also put people at higher risk of heart disease and stroke — can be rapidly (within 4 weeks) reversed by a low-carb diet in the majority of people even if they don’t lose any weight....."- Study had a whopping 16 participants.
- On LC, 9 of 16 no longer qualified as MetSyn after 4 weeks, after MC 3 of 16 no longer qualified, not exactly enough to consider definitive.
- I would love to see if this experiment were extended out to 6 months, would the results even out? In other words, does the LC diet just get these results faster?
- Considering the typical claims about keto, I found this blurb interesting: "They did not see statistically significant improvements in blood pressure or insulin resistance."
- Dr. Volek founded a company that sells a rather expensive private program that claims to treat and reverse T2D through keto. Just something to keep in mind. https://www.virtahealth.com/about/jeffvolek
I can appreciate that this goes to the argument that benefits of low carb are attributable to weight loss, not the type of diet. This is a small, one off study, but point taken.
Having said that, I doubt it's a good idea to stay obese but eat low carb to avoid some of the risk of Metabolic Syndrome. And if reaching a healthy weight anyway will reverse it regardless of how you eat, I'm not sure what the point is unless you enjoy eating that way. To me, what this study suggests is: if you are going to stay obese, you might be better off eating low carb. I don't think it asserts anything about the best way to lose weight, or the best way to eat if you are a healthy weight. Just my opinion, of course.
Low carb is not for weight loss but to see if it will help resolve the health issues that lead to obesity initially since obesity does not seem to be a primary disease but a secondary disease due to some.
The short n=16 study was only about reducing the known risk factors of heart disease which is a major cause of death in the USA.
Below is some research on the impact of eating protein, fats and carbs on the gut microbiome that may be of interest to some reading on the subject. The quoted text typically is from the start of different section of the research paper that would be best to read fully in interested in the subject matter.
Influence of diet on the gut microbiome and implications for human health
https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5385025/
"Protein
The effects of dietary protein on the gut microbiota were first described in 1977."
"Fats
Consumption of high saturated and trans fat diets is thought to increase the risk of cardiovascular disease through upregulation of blood total- and LDL-cholesterol [43, 44]."
"Carbohydrates
Digestible carbohydrates (starch, sugars)
Carbohydrates are possibly the most well studied dietary component for their ability to modify the gut microbiome (studies listed in Table 4)."
"The artificial sweeteners saccharin, sucralose, and aspartame represent another dietary controversy. Artificial sweeteners were originally marketed as a health-conscious, no-calorie food option that could be used to replace natural sugar. Recent evidence from Suez et al. suggests that consumption of all types of artificial sweeteners is actually more likely to induce glucose intolerance than consumption of pure glucose and sucrose. Interestingly, artificial sweeteners are thought to mediate this effect through alteration of gut microbiota." The bold text is my doing for a special person that is struggling with this health risk.
"Besides immunity, gut microorganisms have also been shown to impact host metabolic health. Individuals with metabolic disorders such as obesity and diabetes have been shown to have intestinal dysbiosis in relation to healthy individuals [148, 149]. Further characterization of the link between the gut microbiome and obesity has revealed several bacterial groups that may specifically contribute to the disease." Note: Bolding in this paragraph is to highlight that obesity primarily is a metabolic disorder that can cause obesity as a side effect of a primary health disorder. Truly healthy people or other animals do not become obese. Over eating is not a primary cause of obesity in a medical sense. Calories are units of energy. Macros are what that primarily leads to a positive or negative gut microbiome. The gut brain connection illustrates how what we want to put into our mouths can be influenced by one's own gut microbiome demands.
Binging is one example of this. Totally healthy people do not binge eat from what I can read or my experience since Oct 2014 at the age of 63. If some have medical science links that prove my personal experiences of the past 5 years of eating Low Carb High Fat are not factual and or that this research report is not factual please post the links and we can debate from that point.
Please do tell me what is wrong with me that causes my binge eating please. And indeed how it is that this thing has been wrong with me for the last forty years without any other apparent impact.
Please share all of your n=1 studies over the last 40 years and their results if you want a MFP peer review in your case perhaps.
.
Further evidence that you don't understand the peer review process at all
6 -
This hits on the non ketone keto benefits and why IF is so successful that I have been looking for for four years. I read the transcript because I do not think she is from Kentucky.
https://hvmn.com/podcast/gut-microbiome-research-roundup10 -
I have lost 90 lbs with keto in 18 months; currently I've been stalled for about 8 months and can't seem to get the scale moving again. HOWEVER, I have also reversed my T2 diabetes and have been able to stop all 3 of my meds; I've normalized my blood pressure and have been able to stop meds; I've lowered my cholesterol. I've CURED my decades long IBS/recurrent diverticulitis problems. I have ZERO inflammation in my body anymore and haven't been sick (not even a cold) for 2 years. I'd say keto is very, very good.7
-
I have lost 90 lbs with keto in 18 months; currently I've been stalled for about 8 months and can't seem to get the scale moving again. HOWEVER, I have also reversed my T2 diabetes and have been able to stop all 3 of my meds; I've normalized my blood pressure and have been able to stop meds; I've lowered my cholesterol. I've CURED my decades long IBS/recurrent diverticulitis problems. I have ZERO inflammation in my body anymore and haven't been sick (not even a cold) for 2 years. I'd say keto is very, very good.
Its great that keto worked for you, but I'd argue that the benefits you saw were a result of the weight loss, and not keto specifically. Keto helped you to achieve a caloric deficit which is great. It does have that affect on some people, but if you are currently stalled, it may be because you are no longer in a deficit. Its impossible to tell without knowing how long you've gone without losing weight. If it is a significant amount of time, then I'd advise you figure out calorically what you should be eating, weigh your portions carefully, and track your calories. You can stick with keto if you prefer, but if you want to lose weight then its necessary to be at a caloric deficit.7
This discussion has been closed.
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 393.6K Introduce Yourself
- 43.8K Getting Started
- 260.3K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.9K Food and Nutrition
- 47.5K Recipes
- 232.5K Fitness and Exercise
- 431 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.5K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.6K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 153K Motivation and Support
- 8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.3K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.8K MyFitnessPal Information
- 24 News and Announcements
- 1.1K Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.6K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions