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Stretching and massage don't help muscles

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  • lukejoycePTlukejoycePT Posts: 149Member, Premium Member Posts: 149Member, Premium Member
    I’m not clued up on this but I listened to a podcast the other day with Laired Hamilton (pro surfer and athlete). He was talking about post surgery pain medication and how it slows downs the process of healing. Apparently pain is important for the release of certain chemicals in the body to promote healing, using pain medication suppresses these chemicals and slows the process.

    I’d be interested to see if this is true. He said that when he had his hip replacement he stayed away from meds and healed extremely quickly. He was surfing within 2 weeks!
    Orphia wrote: »
    LyndaBSS wrote: »
    All I know is that stretching and massage both helped my muscles incredibly when I had my joint replacement surgeries.

    Could you explain in more detail?




    Pain is also important for a quick recovery, by taking pain meds you are suppressing the speed at which you body recovers.

    If you mean pain meds such as NSAIDs (anti-inflammatories) then no, you don't want to take those after/during hard exercise. (They actually ban them from some ultra-marathons due to past occurrences of them causing kidney damage.)

    But if you mean you shouldn't take paracetamol or aspirin for the pain, you're very likely wrong about that.

    People view swelling as a bad thing but it’s our bodies way of protecting the joint/affected area.

    Indeed!

    "Inflammation" is a real buzzword that people freak out about these days.

    Fluid and blood in the affected area is actually how the body heals muscle fibre micro-tears (for example, formed during the normal process of exercise intensity).

    The fluid and blood in the area helps muscles grow stronger.

    Trying to reduce the "inflammation" is not helpful at all.

    And pushing and pulling the muscles during this cellular process is pointless.

  • yirarayirara Posts: 4,193Member Member Posts: 4,193Member Member
    I hardly ever stretch. I might do foam rolling when I have very tight muscles, usually in my middle/upper back, and if this doesn't help then I get a massage. But stretching doesn't prevent this anyway.
  • MotorsheenMotorsheen Posts: 14,249Member Member Posts: 14,249Member Member
    I’ll stretch



    .... and reach for that bag of Doritos on the top shelf of our pantry
  • lynn_glenmontlynn_glenmont Posts: 6,620Member Member Posts: 6,620Member Member
    Orphia wrote: »

    If you mean pain meds such as NSAIDs (anti-inflammatories) then no, you don't want to take those after/during hard exercise. (They actually ban them from some ultra-marathons due to past occurrences of them causing kidney damage.)

    But if you mean you shouldn't take paracetamol or aspirin for the pain, you're very likely wrong about that.


    It's not clear to me exactly which aspects of the first paragraph you're contrasting with the second, which begins with "but" (indicating some contrast is intended). If you mean to suggest that aspirin isn't an NSAID, it is.
  • Theoldguy1Theoldguy1 Posts: 367Member Member Posts: 367Member Member


    I’m not clued up on this but I listened to a podcast the other day with Laired Hamilton (pro surfer and athlete). He was talking about post surgery pain medication and how it slows downs the process of healing. Apparently pain is important for the release of certain chemicals in the body to promote healing, using pain medication suppresses these chemicals and slows the process.

    I’d be interested to see if this is true. He said that when he had his hip replacement he stayed away from meds and healed extremely quickly. He was surfing within 2 weeks!
    Orphia wrote: »
    LyndaBSS wrote: »
    All I know is that stretching and massage both helped my muscles incredibly when I had my joint replacement surgeries.

    Could you explain in more detail?




    Pain is also important for a quick recovery, by taking pain meds you are suppressing the speed at which you body recovers.

    If you mean pain meds such as NSAIDs (anti-inflammatories) then no, you don't want to take those after/during hard exercise. (They actually ban them from some ultra-marathons due to past occurrences of them causing kidney damage.)

    But if you mean you shouldn't take paracetamol or aspirin for the pain, you're very likely wrong about that.

    People view swelling as a bad thing but it’s our bodies way of protecting the joint/affected area.

    Indeed!

    "Inflammation" is a real buzzword that people freak out about these days.

    Fluid and blood in the affected area is actually how the body heals muscle fibre micro-tears (for example, formed during the normal process of exercise intensity).

    The fluid and blood in the area helps muscles grow stronger.

    Trying to reduce the "inflammation" is not helpful at all.

    And pushing and pulling the muscles during this cellular process is pointless.

    Sample of 1 but I had 6 shoulder operations and both thumb joints replaced when I was in my 50's. I took less than 10 total pain pills (not doses) combined for the 8 surgeries.

    I each case, the doctor and PT said I healed significantly faster from the procedures than most people they saw.
  • lg013lg013 Posts: 205Member Member Posts: 205Member Member
    I ran cross country and did track in high school and we were always taught that we did the stretching and warm ups to prevent injury—and found it was extremely important as weather conditions changed to prevent injury. I’ve never thought of it as able to prevent muscle soreness
  • aziz_n1aziz_n1 Posts: 109Member Member Posts: 109Member Member
    Interesting discussion taking place here.
    For me, stretching is the hardest challenge as I always seem to be in a rush to hit the shower after exercise. Really have to force myself to do some before heading off to the changing rooms.
    That said, when I do stretch, it seems to help. Also, for me, it’s about doing the stretching correctly.
    Finally, this is a shout out for good Osteopaths, rather than physios. Having treatment from such is very relieving. When I go to see my Osteo I get a combination of manipulation, stretching, clicking, reflexology ( that really loosens things up), deep tissue massage and acupuncture. Feel absolutely amazing after a 1hr session minimum with my Osteo (Alpesh).
  • kevinflemming1982kevinflemming1982 Posts: 159Member Member Posts: 159Member Member
    I've never found it to make any difference, personally. I used to stretch a little before working out, but found that if I forgot to, I felt just the same. Most of the time, if I hurt myself, it's because I was too cocky and did more than I should have.

    Warming-up is more important. Getting the pulse racing a little, before doing any proper exercise.
    edited July 26
  • kiela64kiela64 Posts: 1,389Member Member Posts: 1,389Member Member
    If I don’t stretch and foam roll my calves and IT band, they eventually get so tight I’ve torn a muscle walking. My kneecap will also dislocate. Walking. Doing neck stretches relieves and prevents headaches for me that come from muscle tension. I’m not saying this isn’t true for many athletes - but for non-athletes maybe - it can definitely prevent injuries. Citation: the field of physiotherapy.

    I think it’s a different case if someone is an athlete with strong, capable muscles that just get sore sometimes.
    edited July 27
  • ceiswynceiswyn Posts: 1,852Member Member Posts: 1,852Member Member
    If massage doesn't help muscles, how come my physio was able to move my leg with a greater range of movement and without causing me pain after five minutes of massaging my hip?
  • magnusthenerdmagnusthenerd Posts: 659Member Member Posts: 659Member Member
    ceiswyn wrote: »
    If massage doesn't help muscles, how come my physio was able to move my leg with a greater range of movement and without causing me pain after five minutes of massaging my hip?

    I believe the research on it suggests that what happens is one simply becomes inured to the pain via stretching - the stretching doesn't change the muscle, but the signal that says "this hurts" gets turned down.
  • ceiswynceiswyn Posts: 1,852Member Member Posts: 1,852Member Member
    ceiswyn wrote: »
    If massage doesn't help muscles, how come my physio was able to move my leg with a greater range of movement and without causing me pain after five minutes of massaging my hip?

    I believe the research on it suggests that what happens is one simply becomes inured to the pain via stretching - the stretching doesn't change the muscle, but the signal that says "this hurts" gets turned down.

    ...so why didn't that happen on the other leg as well?
  • ceiswynceiswyn Posts: 1,852Member Member Posts: 1,852Member Member
    (By which I mean, if pain signals generally get turned down, then massaging one hip should have also reduced pain in the other leg - it didn't. Conversely, if it's just pain signals from that particular muscle that get turned down, then massaging one hip should have made no difference to motion and pain in that leg, because it was a different muscle that was hurting. However that other muscle no longer hurt. Maybe it's magic?)
  • lukejoycePTlukejoycePT Posts: 149Member, Premium Member Posts: 149Member, Premium Member
    Hip pain is normally related to the hip itself not the muscles. The muscles feel tighter and ache because they are trying to protect the joint.

    Deep tissue massage of a particular muscle will only reduce the pain local to that muscle.
    ceiswyn wrote: »
    (By which I mean, if pain signals generally get turned down, then massaging one hip should have also reduced pain in the other leg - it didn't. Conversely, if it's just pain signals from that particular muscle that get turned down, then massaging one hip should have made no difference to motion and pain in that leg, because it was a different muscle that was hurting. However that other muscle no longer hurt. Maybe it's magic?)

  • ceiswynceiswyn Posts: 1,852Member Member Posts: 1,852Member Member
    Hip pain is normally related to the hip itself not the muscles. The muscles feel tighter and ache because they are trying to protect the joint.

    Deep tissue massage of a particular muscle will only reduce the pain local to that muscle.
    ceiswyn wrote: »
    (By which I mean, if pain signals generally get turned down, then massaging one hip should have also reduced pain in the other leg - it didn't. Conversely, if it's just pain signals from that particular muscle that get turned down, then massaging one hip should have made no difference to motion and pain in that leg, because it was a different muscle that was hurting. However that other muscle no longer hurt. Maybe it's magic?)

    That's my point. Deep tissue massage of a particular muscle improved the flexibility of my hip, as previously reflected by the pain in a different muscle that the physio didn't touch. If deep tissue massage doesn't actually have any mechanical effect, how did it manage that?
  • lukejoycePTlukejoycePT Posts: 149Member, Premium Member Posts: 149Member, Premium Member
    Because the massage has most likely released the muscle, freeing the joint.

    But a deep tissue massage isn’t stretching.
    ceiswyn wrote: »
    Hip pain is normally related to the hip itself not the muscles. The muscles feel tighter and ache because they are trying to protect the joint.

    Deep tissue massage of a particular muscle will only reduce the pain local to that muscle.
    ceiswyn wrote: »
    (By which I mean, if pain signals generally get turned down, then massaging one hip should have also reduced pain in the other leg - it didn't. Conversely, if it's just pain signals from that particular muscle that get turned down, then massaging one hip should have made no difference to motion and pain in that leg, because it was a different muscle that was hurting. However that other muscle no longer hurt. Maybe it's magic?)

    That's my point. Deep tissue massage of a particular muscle improved the flexibility of my hip, as previously reflected by the pain in a different muscle that the physio didn't touch. If deep tissue massage doesn't actually have any mechanical effect, how did it manage that?

  • ceiswynceiswyn Posts: 1,852Member Member Posts: 1,852Member Member
    Because the massage has most likely released the muscle, freeing the joint.

    But a deep tissue massage isn’t stretching.
    ceiswyn wrote: »
    Hip pain is normally related to the hip itself not the muscles. The muscles feel tighter and ache because they are trying to protect the joint.

    Deep tissue massage of a particular muscle will only reduce the pain local to that muscle.
    ceiswyn wrote: »
    (By which I mean, if pain signals generally get turned down, then massaging one hip should have also reduced pain in the other leg - it didn't. Conversely, if it's just pain signals from that particular muscle that get turned down, then massaging one hip should have made no difference to motion and pain in that leg, because it was a different muscle that was hurting. However that other muscle no longer hurt. Maybe it's magic?)

    That's my point. Deep tissue massage of a particular muscle improved the flexibility of my hip, as previously reflected by the pain in a different muscle that the physio didn't touch. If deep tissue massage doesn't actually have any mechanical effect, how did it manage that?

    It's not stretching, but it's definitely massage :)

    What do you mean by 'released the muscle'?
    edited August 1
  • lukejoycePTlukejoycePT Posts: 149Member, Premium Member Posts: 149Member, Premium Member
    When you have an injury your body tries to isolate the area, whether that be by swelling or through contacting the muscle around the affected area.

    This causes your muscles to feel knotted and tight. A deep tissue massage can help release the muscle and remove the knots.


    ceiswyn wrote: »
    Because the massage has most likely released the muscle, freeing the joint.

    But a deep tissue massage isn’t stretching.
    ceiswyn wrote: »
    Hip pain is normally related to the hip itself not the muscles. The muscles feel tighter and ache because they are trying to protect the joint.

    Deep tissue massage of a particular muscle will only reduce the pain local to that muscle.
    ceiswyn wrote: »
    (By which I mean, if pain signals generally get turned down, then massaging one hip should have also reduced pain in the other leg - it didn't. Conversely, if it's just pain signals from that particular muscle that get turned down, then massaging one hip should have made no difference to motion and pain in that leg, because it was a different muscle that was hurting. However that other muscle no longer hurt. Maybe it's magic?)

    That's my point. Deep tissue massage of a particular muscle improved the flexibility of my hip, as previously reflected by the pain in a different muscle that the physio didn't touch. If deep tissue massage doesn't actually have any mechanical effect, how did it manage that?

    It's not stretching, but it's definitely massage :)

    What do you mean by 'released the muscle'?

  • ceiswynceiswyn Posts: 1,852Member Member Posts: 1,852Member Member
    When you have an injury your body tries to isolate the area, whether that be by swelling or through contacting the muscle around the affected area.

    This causes your muscles to feel knotted and tight. A deep tissue massage can help release the muscle and remove the knots.
    ceiswyn wrote: »
    Because the massage has most likely released the muscle, freeing the joint.

    But a deep tissue massage isn’t stretching.
    ceiswyn wrote: »
    Hip pain is normally related to the hip itself not the muscles. The muscles feel tighter and ache because they are trying to protect the joint.

    Deep tissue massage of a particular muscle will only reduce the pain local to that muscle.
    ceiswyn wrote: »
    (By which I mean, if pain signals generally get turned down, then massaging one hip should have also reduced pain in the other leg - it didn't. Conversely, if it's just pain signals from that particular muscle that get turned down, then massaging one hip should have made no difference to motion and pain in that leg, because it was a different muscle that was hurting. However that other muscle no longer hurt. Maybe it's magic?)

    That's my point. Deep tissue massage of a particular muscle improved the flexibility of my hip, as previously reflected by the pain in a different muscle that the physio didn't touch. If deep tissue massage doesn't actually have any mechanical effect, how did it manage that?

    It's not stretching, but it's definitely massage :)

    What do you mean by 'released the muscle'?

    So you agree with me that massage has a mechanical effect on the muscle?
  • lukejoycePTlukejoycePT Posts: 149Member, Premium Member Posts: 149Member, Premium Member
    Yes of course I do, I think massage is really beneficial.

    I just think stretching isn’t.
    ceiswyn wrote: »
    When you have an injury your body tries to isolate the area, whether that be by swelling or through contacting the muscle around the affected area.

    This causes your muscles to feel knotted and tight. A deep tissue massage can help release the muscle and remove the knots.
    ceiswyn wrote: »
    Because the massage has most likely released the muscle, freeing the joint.

    But a deep tissue massage isn’t stretching.
    ceiswyn wrote: »
    Hip pain is normally related to the hip itself not the muscles. The muscles feel tighter and ache because they are trying to protect the joint.

    Deep tissue massage of a particular muscle will only reduce the pain local to that muscle.
    ceiswyn wrote: »
    (By which I mean, if pain signals generally get turned down, then massaging one hip should have also reduced pain in the other leg - it didn't. Conversely, if it's just pain signals from that particular muscle that get turned down, then massaging one hip should have made no difference to motion and pain in that leg, because it was a different muscle that was hurting. However that other muscle no longer hurt. Maybe it's magic?)

    That's my point. Deep tissue massage of a particular muscle improved the flexibility of my hip, as previously reflected by the pain in a different muscle that the physio didn't touch. If deep tissue massage doesn't actually have any mechanical effect, how did it manage that?

    It's not stretching, but it's definitely massage :)

    What do you mean by 'released the muscle'?

    So you agree with me that massage has a mechanical effect on the muscle?

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