Plateaued With Heavy Exercise. Troubleshooting?

IDeserveBetter

So, here is the issue.
Since December 2017 I've lost 40 pounds.
Major progress.
But that does include a period of gaining most back and losing it again, so ups and downs related to life circumstances.
Now, I'm plateaued.
I thought that going from distance walking to running, thus raising my heart rate would solve that issue. I'm doing some pretty serious running, you guys. ten miles at about a 13 minute pace yesterday. Is not panning out weight loss wise. I'm also at a loss as to further improving my fitness level according to the Fitbit app








Despite seeing major improvement on the running aspect with times and endurance, I'm still fluxuating between the same four pounds......for the last ten weeks or so. Having said that, my resting pulse is lower than it has ever been.

I think I know why, but I over think things.

1: I'm not allowing myself enough rest. I'm having a hard time wrapping my brain around exercise more and eat less isn't gospel.

2: I realize that the huge deficits I'm recording (my food recording is very accurate. I'm very practiced and suuuper careful with it. How I lost 40 pounds) may not exist. I understand that once you hit a peak, you stop burning calories despite what my Fitbit versa might record

3: I academically know I need to vary my exercises; I've started incorporating some weight training and I'm about to start yoga, but I'm having a hard time not doubling those days up with cardio instead of giving cardio a break. I'm not internalizing the lesson

4: I'm unsure if I should be eating less, or more. If the deficits are accurate, eating more may help because of avoiding starvation mode. If they aren't, I may barely have deficits at all. I'm aware muscle weighs more, and I AM seeing tape measure differences, but not big ones.

I don't really know what I'm asking.
I'm probably going to consult a trainer and a nutritionist for more educated insight.

Pictures included for posterity:

RovP6

I think your last comment is probably spot on, you're at the stage where you need a coach.

There's only so much we can do on our own. However, exercise accounts for around 5% of your TDEE, even if you're doing as much as you are and yoyoing as you've been doing is not ideal for your body, or your sanity.

If you want some online help have a look at this guy on IG or FB or even just check out his website https://jadeteta.com/. I'm pretty sure once you've read some of his content you'll find a way to move forward.

Hope that helps.

sijomial

1: I'm having a hard time wrapping my brain around exercise more and eat less isn't gospel.
What does this mean?
Does this indicate you have fundamental disagreement with the concept that "energy can neither be created nor destroyed"?


2: I understand that once you hit a peak, you stop burning calories despite what my Fitbit versa might record
Sorry but that's is nonsensical. You can't move without burning expending energy and calories are simply units of energy. Otherwise Tour de France riders would be eating nothing to fuel their rides instead of 5000 - 6500 calories a day. That would be like your car moving without having to put fuel in it just because you are using it for your daily journey.


3: I academically know I need to vary my exercises; I've started incorporating some weight training and I'm about to start yoga, but I'm having a hard time not doubling those days up with cardio instead of giving cardio a break. I'm not internalizing the lesson.
Doesn't sound a healthy mindset to me - does it sound healthy to you?


4: I'm unsure if I should be eating less, or more. If the deficits are accurate, eating more may help because of avoiding starvation mode. If they aren't, I may barely have deficits at all. I'm aware muscle weighs more, and I AM seeing tape measure differences, but not big ones.
Starvation mode doesn't exist in the way you seem to imagine. Mostly an excuse for poor results due to inaccuracy or poor adherence to a true calorie deficit.
Muscle "doesn't weigh more" - it's just slightly more dense.


I don't really know what I'm asking.
Me neither!
But you need throw away all those dreadful diet myths you seem to believe and go back to basics.
What I would suggest is a complete change of mindset around exercise, not for a short term weight loss goal but rather for long term health and fitness benefits.
If you aren't losing weight as expected by far the most likely reason is eating more than you think.

I'm probably going to consult a trainer and a nutritionist for more educated insight.
Before you consult a trainer you need to have a serious think about your goals, your trainer should be helping you towards your goals rather than set your goals.

Beware that Nutritionist isn't always a guarantee of any real formal education, it might be a simple online open book exam that anyone could pay for. A registered dietician might be a better choice.

HollyPFlax

A plateau means that you are no longer sustaining a calorie deficit. If you aren't gaining weight either, then you are eating at maintenance for your weight plus your exercise calories. How are you tracking your intake? Are you using a food scale?

sijomial

RovP6 wrote: »

I think your last comment is probably spot on, you're at the stage where you need a coach.

There's only so much we can do on our own. However, exercise accounts for around 5% of your TDEE, even if you're doing as much as you are and yoyoing as you've been doing is not ideal for your body, or your sanity.

If you want some online help have a look at this guy on IG or FB or even just check out his website https://jadeteta.com/. I'm pretty sure once you've read some of his content you'll find a way to move forward.

Hope that helps.

The bold is a ridiculous statement!
My daily TDEE would be 10,000+ if that applied to everyone.

If that made up stat comes from your guru I'll be sure to avoid reading any of his work.

Maxematics

The post above is fantastic and pretty much covers it all, but to expand upon the "eating more than you think" part, you said:

"my food recording is very accurate. I'm very practiced and suuuper careful with it. How I lost 40 pounds".

Unless you use a food scale to weigh everything you put in your mouth, saying your food recordings are very accurate is a bold claim. I can tell from your post you have the best intentions for yourself. Using measuring cups may have worked for the first 40 pounds but the closer you get to goal, the more precise you must be with your logging.

The good news is that you have an open diary, so I was able to take a look at how you log food.

1. I see a lot of foods laden with sodium . Sodium causes water retention which causes spikes on the scale. I know the morning after a high sodium day, my weight has spiked up by at least three pounds. This could be masking weight loss.
2. The Chinese tea-smoked duck and white rice has been in your diary more than once in the past week. Unless you input that entry for the duck with the recipe builder and weighed everything out, you cannot say it's accurate.
3. I see a lot of other entries from fast food/outside establishments. There's a good chance you may be underestimating the calories for all of it, even if you're using correct database entries. The nutritional facts listed on websites are rough estimates and they will vary based on whoever was preparing the food that day.
4. Every other food in your diary is listed in cups, pieces, servings, bars or ounces; I don't really see gram weights.
5. You've done Quick Adds a few times.

I don't list these out to offend you in any way but to show you that your logging truly isn't as accurate as you claim. Out of everything you've written above, you're right about one thing; the huge deficits that you're recording do not exist. However, it's not because of hitting a peak and not burning calories as debunked above. You're eating more than you think. If you want to see progress on the scale, it's time to start logging more accurately.

Dilvish

Fitbit and other tech trackers are generally inaccurate most of the time and there is mounting evidence that they should not be relied upon unless all you are using it for is a generic pedometer (casual walking). The University of British Columbia (Canada) did a study on them and it was quite shocking...they are a waste of money IMHO.

At some point everybody plateaus. The body gets used to the routine. Instead of adjusting your cardio, try adding resistance/weights. Cardio is great exercise but is overrated for weight loss. Strength training improves and or builds muscle which is more metabolically active and therefore burns more calories.

tammie614

Dilvish wrote: »

Fitbit and other tech trackers are generally inaccurate most of the time and there is mounting evidence that they should not be relied upon unless all you are using it for is a generic pedometer (casual walking). The University of British Columbia (Canada) did a study on them and it was quite shocking...they are a waste of money IMHO.

At some point everybody plateaus. The body gets used to the routine. Instead of adjusting your cardio, try adding resistance/weights. Cardio is great exercise but is overrated for weight loss. Strength training improves and or builds muscle which is more metabolically active and therefore burns more calories.

good morning. the bolded above is what i was going to suggest. Also, get some macros and try that. perhaps you need more calories(aren't eating enough). maybe switch to HIIT or LISS cardio. my first go to would be to add resistance training ( i love lifting) :-)

Phirrgus

IDeserveBetter wrote: »

So, here is the issue.
Since December 2017 I've lost 40 pounds.
Major progress.
But that does include a period of gaining most back and losing it again, so ups and downs related to life circumstances.
Now, I'm plateaued.
I thought that going from distance walking to running, thus raising my heart rate would solve that issue. I'm doing some pretty serious running, you guys. ten miles at about a 13 minute pace yesterday. Is not panning out weight loss wise. I'm also at a loss as to further improving my fitness level according to the Fitbit app

Quoting @Maxematics post for emphasis. Exercise can certainly help with your deficit, but relying mostly on estimated weights/servings/calories etc and exercise is only going to leave you stuck and guessing as you are now. Caloric deficit for weightloss and exercise for fitness. Try out that food scale, and don't lose heart. You'll get there

Maxematics wrote: »

The post above is fantastic and pretty much covers it all, but to expand upon the "eating more than you think" part, you said:

"my food recording is very accurate. I'm very practiced and suuuper careful with it. How I lost 40 pounds".

Unless you use a food scale to weigh everything you put in your mouth, saying your food recordings are very accurate is a bold claim. I can tell from your post you have the best intentions for yourself. Using measuring cups may have worked for the first 40 pounds but the closer you get to goal, the more precise you must be with your logging.

The good news is that you have an open diary, so I was able to take a look at how you log food.

1. I see a lot of foods laden with sodium . Sodium causes water retention which causes spikes on the scale. I know the morning after a high sodium day, my weight has spiked up by at least three pounds. This could be masking weight loss.
2. The Chinese tea-smoked duck and white rice has been in your diary more than once in the past week. Unless you input that entry for the duck with the recipe builder and weighed everything out, you cannot say it's accurate.
3. I see a lot of other entries from fast food/outside establishments. There's a good chance you may be underestimating the calories for all of it, even if you're using correct database entries. The nutritional facts listed on websites are rough estimates and they will vary based on whoever was preparing the food that day.
4. Every other food in your diary is listed in cups, pieces, servings, bars or ounces; I don't really see gram weights.
5. You've done Quick Adds a few times.

I don't list these out to offend you in any way but to show you that your logging truly isn't as accurate as you claim. Out of everything you've written above, you're right about one thing; the huge deficits that you're recording do not exist. However, it's not because of hitting a peak and not burning calories as debunked above. You're eating more than you think. If you want to see progress on the scale, it's time to start logging more accurately.

Chelle8070

I think a lot of this depends on what your goals are. Is it only to lose weight?

I recently found a group of women on facebook that like to say "eff the scale"! They eat whole, real foods, they lift weights, they do cool stuff. The scale is but ONE TOOL. Do you have any performance goals? Something that can be measured?

I don't know what your calorie goals are but 10 miles is a lot! I hope you're eating to fuel those runs!

If you like cardio, then do cardio. Just make fitness happen! That's it! Keep moving!

I threw my "goal weight" out the window and it has been the greatest thing I've ever done. I quit smoking recently so I gained 10lbs back (yes I still get on a scale because we are evil to ourselves). I was going to be down and out on myself until I ran my first ever 5K on Friday! I was always a fat kid in school, never ran a mile in my life until 2 months ago, now I can run 3! Last night I did a workout that contained 45 burpees. Usually after 5 I have to step back and step forward and skip the jump at the end. I did all 45 AND jumped onto a 16" box.

I hope you find a healthy balance with your food and exercise. Try not to beat yourself up so much

thejjman1888

As an ex runner you wont out train a bad diet only you know what you are eating cut out bread/sweets/choc/booze I find the Apps on here are very generous with what calories are supposedly burned I have used Strava for many years never had to diet in my life til recently, I used to be a very fit man running/marathons/triathlons spinal injuries put a stop to that, I have lost 2 1/2 stone 2 stone of that before using Myfitnesspal. shorter harder/faster efforts will improve your timmes greatly showing you as obese so maybe that is a no no, try and mix your speeds up rather than plodding along at the sam speed, all the best I really wish I could still run :-(

kimny72

OP, take a deep breathe and throw all the complicated crap the diet and fitness industry bombards us with out the window Then start with the basics:

https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/1080242/a-guide-to-get-you-started-on-your-path-to-sexypants/p1

https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10634517/you-dont-use-a-food-scale/p1

https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10503681/exercise-calories-do-i-eat-these-a-video-explanation/p1

Phirrgus

kimny72 wrote: »

OP, take a deep breathe and throw all the complicated crap the diet and fitness industry bombards us with out the window Then start with the basics:

https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/1080242/a-guide-to-get-you-started-on-your-path-to-sexypants/p1

https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10634517/you-dont-use-a-food-scale/p1

https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10503681/exercise-calories-do-i-eat-these-a-video-explanation/p1

this!

fitoverfortymom

Phirrgus wrote: »

kimny72 wrote: »

OP, take a deep breathe and throw all the complicated crap the diet and fitness industry bombards us with out the window Then start with the basics:

https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/1080242/a-guide-to-get-you-started-on-your-path-to-sexypants/p1

https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10634517/you-dont-use-a-food-scale/p1

https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10503681/exercise-calories-do-i-eat-these-a-video-explanation/p1

this!

Everything you need is right there.

I'm a distance runner also, and it's definitely a challenge finding that balance between deficit and fueling the runs. I actually had more success dropping weight training for 10k type distances than anything else and walking, but ultimately it came down to the accuracy of my calorie counting (and eating back those delicious exercise calories of course).

OooohToast

Hiya and well done on dropping those 40lb ! Broadly I support that all calories are equal with the exception of sugar. I had a look at your diary and would encourage you to drop the sugary drinks and replace those calories with water for liquids and wholegrain carbs/fat/protein mix on high exercise days for the calories. I wonder if replacing the drinking calories with eating calories might impact your overall consumption ...... along with everyone else, I think accurate weight based logging will help as would preparing your own food as much as poss. Good luck !

kimny72

OP, I didn't realize your diary was public. Your logging is almost certainly a large part of the problem.

1. Use a food scale for all solids as often as possible. The volume serving sizes on packages, and the number of servings in a package, are vague estimates.
2. Double check the entries you are using in the database, many are user created and they can be wrong. Avoid generic or recipe-style entries that you didn't create yourself. Check the calories to the package or the USDA published values for whole foods.
3. Log everything - condiments, cooking oils, late night snacks, nibbles, everything

When I changed my logging to follow those rules, I learned I had been eating hundreds more calories than I thought. I'd bet 4 weeks of super detail oriented accurate logging will shine a light on what you need to do to start seeing progress again. :drinker:

rachrene5

Don't give up! Get a good trainer who listens to you, don't be afraid of food, and start lifting those weights! Get a different focus on health and strength and give your other ideals about weight loss a break. If you know you need more rest, give it to yourself. No one else can! Rest is where we make gains in our strength and health.

AnnPT77

IDeserveBetter wrote: »

So, here is the issue.
Since December 2017 I've lost 40 pounds.
Major progress.
But that does include a period of gaining most back and losing it again, so ups and downs related to life circumstances.
Now, I'm plateaued.
I thought that going from distance walking to running, thus raising my heart rate would solve that issue. I'm doing some pretty serious running, you guys. ten miles at about a 13 minute pace yesterday. Is not panning out weight loss wise. I'm also at a loss as to further improving my fitness level according to the Fitbit app

<Images snipped, for length>

On another thread, you say you've gone but down from 224 to 184, and are around there now. You also mention elsewhere that your runs are actually walk/run intervals.

You're struggling, IMO, because of several issues:

* Having started at about your weight, I'm also skeptical about your exercise calories. On the thread over in the Fitness forum, someone gave you the estimating formula for net calories from walking and running. Use that**. However, I see that you have your Fitbit synched, which should (maybe) be giving you a more sensible calorie adjustment. You can use the formula for a gut check, but recognize that the Fitbit adjustment covers more than the run.
(**For others reading, the formulas are weight in lbs x 0.63 x distance in miles for running; weight in pounds x 0.30 x distance in miles for walking.)

* Others have pointed out that it appears you're not using a food scale, using "servings", using what looks like generic entries from the database, etc. Tightening that up is a high-potential-benefit route. The first tens of pounds come off with less precision; as you get lighter, better precision can be helpful.

* You mention (in the other thread?) that you've recently begun running (vs. walking) and that you're adding strength training. Any new exercise, especially strength exercise, can temporarily add water weight, and mask fat loss on the scale for a couple/few weeks. Perhaps that's part of the current picture for you.

Despite seeing major improvement on the running aspect with times and endurance, I'm still fluxuating between the same four pounds......for the last ten weeks or so. Having said that, my resting pulse is lower than it has ever been.

I think I know why, but I over think things.

1: I'm not allowing myself enough rest. I'm having a hard time wrapping my brain around exercise more and eat less isn't gospel.

It pretty much is gospel. But, if calorie counting is the weight loss strategy being used, accuracy is important.

Adequate rest is also important, though. If you get over-fatigued, it tends to reduce daily life activity (we rest more, do less vigorous things in work/chores, maybe even sleep more) which reduces calories burned in daily life, effectively wiping out some of the exercise calories. (Your Fitbit might not catch all of this effect, but should catch most.) Also, rest is important for performance in exercise (muscle recovery as well as energy level; well-managed rest and recovery is vital to fitness improvement.

2: I realize that the huge deficits I'm recording (my food recording is very accurate. I'm very practiced and suuuper careful with it. How I lost 40 pounds) may not exist. I understand that once you hit a peak, you stop burning calories despite what my Fitbit versa might record

Huh? No.

The "fat burning zone" is a myth (from a calorie-counting standpoint: it matters for endurance fueling); your body doesn't "get used to an exercise" and burn fewer calories when doing it. In most common exercises (such as walking/running), the efficiency difference between a skilled person and an unskilled one is trivial. And a fit person and unfit person of the same size, running the same distance, burn roughly the same number of calories. It just feels much easier to the fit person, and many heart rate monitors will (inaccurately) estimate a lower calorie burn for the fit person vs. the unfit one. That's one of the many limitations of heart rate as a proxy for calorie burn.

Of course, in any weight-bearing exercise (like walking/running) you burn fewer calories as a lighter person than you did as a heavier one, for the same exercise (same pace, distance, intensity, duration, etc.). Of course, as you get fitter, you can work out harder (higher intensity) for the same amount of time, without incurring an impairing fatigue penalty, and burn more calories that way.

Your Fitbit may or may not accurately estimate your workout calories, but the reasons have nothing to do with "reaching your peak", whatever you mean by that.

3: I academically know I need to vary my exercises; I've started incorporating some weight training and I'm about to start yoga, but I'm having a hard time not doubling those days up with cardio instead of giving cardio a break. I'm not internalizing the lesson

You don't need to vary your exercise for calorie-burn purposes, for reasons outlined above. Strength training is worth doing (preserves existing muscle while losing weight; adds muscle in the very long run; adds strength in the short run (mainly through neuromuscular adaptation); can help your running pace; strengthens bones to help avoid osteoporosis, which is a major mortality risk and independence factor for we women as we age; and more). Rest is absolutely vital for strength training, and overdoing on an overall basis is counterproductive for weight loss as described above.

Varied exercise modalities are good for fitness, in the sense that they improve different aspects of fitness, of course.

4: I'm unsure if I should be eating less, or more. If the deficits are accurate, eating more may help because of avoiding starvation mode. If they aren't, I may barely have deficits at all. I'm aware muscle weighs more, and I AM seeing tape measure differences, but not big ones.

Starvation mode, in that sense, is not a real thing. If it were, no one would ever starve to death, and, sadly, many people worldwide do so every day, and they aren't fat when it happens. It's true that undereating can sap your energy and cause some slowdown, but if you're eating less than you're burning, you'll lose weight.

Have you adjusted your base calorie goal every 10 pounds or so along the way? Unfortunately, the lighter we are, the fewer BMR/NEAT calories we burn, so we may need to adjust to keep weight loss coming.

Beyond adjusting for bodyweight changes, eating more/less is a probably-irrelevant tweak until the bigger and more probable factors are pinned down.

I don't really know what I'm asking.
I'm probably going to consult a trainer and a nutritionist for more educated insight.

Pictures included for posterity:

Really good muscle gain for even a young woman under perfect circumstances would be a quarter pound a week (and perfect circumstances would include a calorie surplus). If new to exercise and strength training, you can maybe, possibly gain a bit of muscle mass in calorie deficit with an good progressive weight training program done diligently, but it's very unlikely to achieve that quarter pound a week rate. In contrast, losing a quarter pound of fat a week would be such a slow rate of weight loss that one probably wouldn't notice it in less than a month or two, even with a weight-trending app and daily weigh-ins for the app to work with.

As far as fitness improvement, it's inherently a slow process. You've seen some fast gains initially (like resting heart rate improvement), but it slows down. Patience and persistence are essential.

In your other thread, you mention not being very good with "one size fits all" plans like C25K. It's a really good thing for us to know our own inclinations and work with them rather than fight them . . . but those kinds of plans really are the way to make the best fitness progress. Something like one of the Hal Higdon running plans suitable to your goals (or a good one from another source), and a weight training program from the thread below would be your best bet if maximum fitness progress is the most important goal, vs. doing things in a way that's more congenial/pleasurable for your personality. That tradeoff is totally your call, of course.

http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10332083/which-lifting-program-is-the-best-for-you/

Your best route at this point, IMO and IME, is to
1. Tighten up your logging (food scale for a while, at least - great use of $20 or thereabouts, and quicker than cups/spoons once you learn the tricks);
2. Gut-check your exercise calories with the estimating formula given;
3. Make sure your intake level is right for your current body weight;
4. Get a weight trend app (Happy Scale for iOS, Libra for Android, Trendweight, etc.) if you don't have one;
5. Start the strength training for long-run fitness benefits rather than weight loss per se;
6. Consider running and weight training programs if fitness improvement is a vital goal, vs. DIY preference.

You can get past this plateau, and make progress, if you look at the situation as analytically and dispassionately as possible, and adjust accordingly.

Best wishes for much success!

IDeserveBetter

I haven't read every single bit of these responses, but I will.
Moved to a desktop computer to respond at greater length.

But first.....broad strokes. I'm going to c/p specific things from responses to clarify.
Please take into account, I'm working with information and education from my own life, online research, my fitbit and my Army experience (which is dated to say the least). Some of the abbreviations mentioned are ones I'm not familiar with and will look up.

This is specific to sijomial
Posts: 14,475 Member

1: I'm having a hard time wrapping my brain around exercise more and eat less isn't gospel.
What does this mean?
Does this indicate you have fundamental disagreement with the concept that "energy can neither be created nor destroyed"?
Nah, I oversimplified the statement that I'd fleshed out in a different place. Exercise more and eat less is obviously the key, but not the only thing. I'm talking about varying exercise beyond just cardio for better results, and I'm having a hard time internalizing that isn't slacking.


3: I academically know I need to vary my exercises; I've started incorporating some weight training and I'm about to start yoga, but I'm having a hard time not doubling those days up with cardio instead of giving cardio a break. I'm not internalizing the lesson.
Doesn't sound a healthy mindset to me - does it sound healthy to you?

Didn't say it was healthy. Said it is a thing I'm struggling with. Thus pointing it out.
Identifiying our own flaws matters

4: I'm unsure if I should be eating less, or more. If the deficits are accurate, eating more may help because of avoiding starvation mode. If they aren't, I may barely have deficits at all. I'm aware muscle weighs more, and I AM seeing tape measure differences, but not big ones.
Starvation mode doesn't exist in the way you seem to imagine. Mostly an excuse for poor results due to inaccuracy or poor adherence to a true calorie deficit.
Muscle "doesn't weigh more" - it's just slightly more dense.

You are arguing pedantics to a point. My diction and understanding are imperfect, but you understand the larger point I'm making. Denser WILL weigh more, even if the number I saw is .12 more. The more correct answer here is the portion having to do with poor adherence to a true calorie deficit, and honestly I'm not sure why you responded how you specifically did, but if I were less sure of myself, your response here probably would have scared me away from asking for help at all. I know what you mean, and you do you, but pointing out the flaws in logging and the tools I'm using and suggesting better equations for calculation would be a lot more effective than implying that it is a self control issue. Don't know if that was an intentional tone, but I'm making you aware of how it specifically reads to someone not very versed in this forum.

I don't really know what I'm asking.
Me neither!
But you need throw away all those dreadful diet myths you seem to believe and go back to basics.
What I would suggest is a complete change of mindset around exercise, not for a short term weight loss goal but rather for long term health and fitness benefits.
If you aren't losing weight as expected by far the most likely reason is eating more than you think.

I think you are extrapolating experience with other posters here onto my post.
If you look at my written post, it is specifying that considering what I've done previously that has worked, it isn't any more. The information I'm using, flawed as it may be, is coming from sources I can explain. Never once did I mention anything about fad diets, any kind of hokey guru stuff or similar. Yeah, I'm unfocused. I'm here to learn and apply that knowledge, not disregard advice or cast off stuff I don't like. Like all other humans, I'm going to evaluate the information presented to me through my own lense of knowledge and experience, but that doesn't translate to 'diet myths'.

I'm not sure what your point in responding to my post here is, or if this method typically works for you to open people's eyes, but dude........chill. I realize that you've posted a gazillion times, but seriously, your response wasn't actually insightful or helpful at all.

Still though, you do you.

IDeserveBetter

Maxematics wrote: »

The post above is fantastic and pretty much covers it all, but to expand upon the "eating more than you think" part, you said:

"my food recording is very accurate. I'm very practiced and suuuper careful with it. How I lost 40 pounds".

Unless you use a food scale to weigh everything you put in your mouth, saying your food recordings are very accurate is a bold claim. I can tell from your post you have the best intentions for yourself. Using measuring cups may have worked for the first 40 pounds but the closer you get to goal, the more precise you must be with your logging.

The good news is that you have an open diary, so I was able to take a look at how you log food.

1. I see a lot of foods laden with sodium . Sodium causes water retention which causes spikes on the scale. I know the morning after a high sodium day, my weight has spiked up by at least three pounds. This could be masking weight loss.
2. The Chinese tea-smoked duck and white rice has been in your diary more than once in the past week. Unless you input that entry for the duck with the recipe builder and weighed everything out, you cannot say it's accurate.
3. I see a lot of other entries from fast food/outside establishments. There's a good chance you may be underestimating the calories for all of it, even if you're using correct database entries. The nutritional facts listed on websites are rough estimates and they will vary based on whoever was preparing the food that day.
4. Every other food in your diary is listed in cups, pieces, servings, bars or ounces; I don't really see gram weights.
5. You've done Quick Adds a few times.

I don't list these out to offend you in any way but to show you that your logging truly isn't as accurate as you claim. Out of everything you've written above, you're right about one thing; the huge deficits that you're recording do not exist. However, it's not because of hitting a peak and not burning calories as debunked above. You're eating more than you think. If you want to see progress on the scale, it's time to start logging more accurately.

Many of my 'serving' entries are because I'm making the recipe myself, using the tool for ingrediants and dividing the number of servings by how many preportioned containers it ends up using. No, I'm not using grams. The things that are packaged, I'm taking directly from the package. Quick adds are typically a division of a larger printed total I don't feel like documenting specifically. I tend to overestimate calories rather than under estimate, but I'm brutally honest with myself as far as intake using the tools I have. Especially when I'm doing poorly. I think that I may need a different tool to estimate calories expended, which would allow me to tailor my intake to an appropriate level. I've got serious room to improve my diet, for sure, but it may be more accurate than you think.
*I AM using a kitchen scale, but only when it comes to weighing ingrediants for amounts so you won't see it reflected much in the diary.

IDeserveBetter

AnnPT77 wrote: »

IDeserveBetter wrote: »

So, here is the issue.
Since December 2017 I've lost 40 pounds.
Major progress.
But that does include a period of gaining most back and losing it again, so ups and downs related to life circumstances.
Now, I'm plateaued.
I thought that going from distance walking to running, thus raising my heart rate would solve that issue. I'm doing some pretty serious running, you guys. ten miles at about a 13 minute pace yesterday. Is not panning out weight loss wise. I'm also at a loss as to further improving my fitness level according to the Fitbit app

<Images snipped, for length>

On another thread, you say you've gone but down from 224 to 184, and are around there now. You also mention elsewhere that your runs are actually walk/run intervals.

You're struggling, IMO, because of several issues:

* Having started at about your weight, I'm also skeptical about your exercise calories. On the thread over in the Fitness forum, someone gave you the estimating formula for net calories from walking and running. Use that**. However, I see that you have your Fitbit synched, which should (maybe) be giving you a more sensible calorie adjustment. You can use the formula for a gut check, but recognize that the Fitbit adjustment covers more than the run.
(**For others reading, the formulas are weight in lbs x 0.63 x distance in miles for running; weight in pounds x 0.30 x distance in miles for walking.)

* Others have pointed out that it appears you're not using a food scale, using "servings", using what looks like generic entries from the database, etc. Tightening that up is a high-potential-benefit route. The first tens of pounds come off with less precision; as you get lighter, better precision can be helpful.

* You mention (in the other thread?) that you've recently begun running (vs. walking) and that you're adding strength training. Any new exercise, especially strength exercise, can temporarily add water weight, and mask fat loss on the scale for a couple/few weeks. Perhaps that's part of the current picture for you.

Despite seeing major improvement on the running aspect with times and endurance, I'm still fluxuating between the same four pounds......for the last ten weeks or so. Having said that, my resting pulse is lower than it has ever been.

I think I know why, but I over think things.

1: I'm not allowing myself enough rest. I'm having a hard time wrapping my brain around exercise more and eat less isn't gospel.

It pretty much is gospel. But, if calorie counting is the weight loss strategy being used, accuracy is important.

Adequate rest is also important, though. If you get over-fatigued, it tends to reduce daily life activity (we rest more, do less vigorous things in work/chores, maybe even sleep more) which reduces calories burned in daily life, effectively wiping out some of the exercise calories. (Your Fitbit might not catch all of this effect, but should catch most.) Also, rest is important for performance in exercise (muscle recovery as well as energy level; well-managed rest and recovery is vital to fitness improvement.

2: I realize that the huge deficits I'm recording (my food recording is very accurate. I'm very practiced and suuuper careful with it. How I lost 40 pounds) may not exist. I understand that once you hit a peak, you stop burning calories despite what my Fitbit versa might record

Huh? No.

The "fat burning zone" is a myth (from a calorie-counting standpoint: it matters for endurance fueling); your body doesn't "get used to an exercise" and burn fewer calories when doing it. In most common exercises (such as walking/running), the efficiency difference between a skilled person and an unskilled one is trivial. And a fit person and unfit person of the same size, running the same distance, burn roughly the same number of calories. It just feels much easier to the fit person, and many heart rate monitors will (inaccurately) estimate a lower calorie burn for the fit person vs. the unfit one. That's one of the many limitations of heart rate as a proxy for calorie burn.

Of course, in any weight-bearing exercise (like walking/running) you burn fewer calories as a lighter person than you did as a heavier one, for the same exercise (same pace, distance, intensity, duration, etc.). Of course, as you get fitter, you can work out harder (higher intensity) for the same amount of time, without incurring an impairing fatigue penalty, and burn more calories that way.

Your Fitbit may or may not accurately estimate your workout calories, but the reasons have nothing to do with "reaching your peak", whatever you mean by that.

3: I academically know I need to vary my exercises; I've started incorporating some weight training and I'm about to start yoga, but I'm having a hard time not doubling those days up with cardio instead of giving cardio a break. I'm not internalizing the lesson

You don't need to vary your exercise for calorie-burn purposes, for reasons outlined above. Strength training is worth doing (preserves existing muscle while losing weight; adds muscle in the very long run; adds strength in the short run (mainly through neuromuscular adaptation); can help your running pace; strengthens bones to help avoid osteoporosis, which is a major mortality risk and independence factor for we women as we age; and more). Rest is absolutely vital for strength training, and overdoing on an overall basis is counterproductive for weight loss as described above.

Varied exercise modalities are good for fitness, in the sense that they improve different aspects of fitness, of course.

4: I'm unsure if I should be eating less, or more. If the deficits are accurate, eating more may help because of avoiding starvation mode. If they aren't, I may barely have deficits at all. I'm aware muscle weighs more, and I AM seeing tape measure differences, but not big ones.

Starvation mode, in that sense, is not a real thing. If it were, no one would ever starve to death, and, sadly, many people worldwide do so every day, and they aren't fat when it happens. It's true that undereating can sap your energy and cause some slowdown, but if you're eating less than you're burning, you'll lose weight.

Have you adjusted your base calorie goal every 10 pounds or so along the way? Unfortunately, the lighter we are, the fewer BMR/NEAT calories we burn, so we may need to adjust to keep weight loss coming.

Beyond adjusting for bodyweight changes, eating more/less is a probably-irrelevant tweak until the bigger and more probable factors are pinned down.

I don't really know what I'm asking.
I'm probably going to consult a trainer and a nutritionist for more educated insight.

Pictures included for posterity:

Really good muscle gain for even a young woman under perfect circumstances would be a quarter pound a week (and perfect circumstances would include a calorie surplus). If new to exercise and strength training, you can maybe, possibly gain a bit of muscle mass in calorie deficit with an good progressive weight training program done diligently, but it's very unlikely to achieve that quarter pound a week rate. In contrast, losing a quarter pound of fat a week would be such a slow rate of weight loss that one probably wouldn't notice it in less than a month or two, even with a weight-trending app and daily weigh-ins for the app to work with.

As far as fitness improvement, it's inherently a slow process. You've seen some fast gains initially (like resting heart rate improvement), but it slows down. Patience and persistence are essential.

In your other thread, you mention not being very good with "one size fits all" plans like C25K. It's a really good thing for us to know our own inclinations and work with them rather than fight them . . . but those kinds of plans really are the way to make the best fitness progress. Something like one of the Hal Higdon running plans suitable to your goals (or a good one from another source), and a weight training program from the thread below would be your best bet if maximum fitness progress is the most important goal, vs. doing things in a way that's more congenial/pleasurable for your personality. That tradeoff is totally your call, of course.

http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10332083/which-lifting-program-is-the-best-for-you/

Your best route at this point, IMO and IME, is to
1. Tighten up your logging (food scale for a while, at least - great use of $20 or thereabouts, and quicker than cups/spoons once you learn the tricks);
2. Gut-check your exercise calories with the estimating formula given;
3. Make sure your intake level is right for your current body weight;
4. Get a weight trend app (Happy Scale for iOS, Libra for Android, Trendweight, etc.) if you don't have one;
5. Start the strength training for long-run fitness benefits rather than weight loss per se;
6. Consider running and weight training programs if fitness improvement is a vital goal, vs. DIY preference.

You can get past this plateau, and make progress, if you look at the situation as analytically and dispassionately as possible, and adjust accordingly.

Best wishes for much success!

I've addressed much of this in previous responses, so I won't repeat, but there are a few things I'm going to reply to:

I just responded in the other thread that I taped myself last night after posting, and saw the following changes

First set of numbers is mid feb, second is yesterday:

Bust: 41 40
Chest 36 34.5
Waist 38 35
hips 43 42
biceps 13 (both) 13 (Both)

So there IS progress here, but I'm not yet familiar enough to know how to really translate that. I'm going to research.

I have a bunch of apps, but not a weight trend one, so I'm going to look into that.

....Still not doing a C25k. I understand the benefits, but..... I'm just not.