contract marriage?

JUDDDing · August 2013

If you get married for the sole purpose of deriving some sort of benefit rather than for love, then it's a sham marriage. If for some reason they (the government) scrutinize you, you won't come out unscathed.

Or the insurance company.

If I was going to do something like this - we would cohabitate. At least for a decent period of time.

Juliejustsaying · August 2013

Someone I'm close to has done this...it is very hard.

but there are plenty of people around to judge...thank god..
/sarcasm

odusgolp · August 2013

There is a board for Debatable Debating. I recommend you go to that group.

bloominheck · August 2013

no chance at all a government agency is reading this right now.

Uh ya they are....:frown:

supertracylynn · August 2013

Or worse, staying together "for the children". THAT should carry a fine and a jail sentence.

I don't care what you do but that last part rubbed me the wrong way...

I certainly didn't mean to offend.
I was referring to extreme situations - where the parents hate each other and can't hide it. Or there's abuse. Or the environment isn't healthy for the children (as determined by a professional), etc.

hypotrochoid · August 2013

Sure. Why not? If all parties are agreed there's not a problem in my mind. Heck, marriage started out as property contracts anyway.

... Though I'd need someone on the side, if you catch my drift. *wink, wink, nudge, nudge*

gogoboobzilla · August 2013

I feel like a lot of peoples morals and ideals and maybe even religious beliefs are coming into play here.
So the government gives perks to two people who get married. Why? Because they love each other? Why should the government care?
If you choose to marry (partner up with someone for government perks) that's on you. You better trust the person you choose, but I wouldn't think any less of someone for it.
Yes, it's fraud. Don't get caught. Just because something is illegal doesn't necessarily make it morally wrong.

supertracylynn · August 2013

There is a board for Debatable Debating. I recommend you go to that group.

an actual board for it, or a group?

I would be interested in posting this topic where people aren't like,
ZOMG I CANNOT BELIEVE YOU WOULD EVEN CONSIDER SOMETHING THAT'S NOT IN COMPLETE AGREEMENT WITH WHAT I BELIEVE TO BE RIGHT/CORRECT/GOOD!!!

Hexahedra · August 2013

"That burden would be on the govt to prove what your intent was"
Funny how that is what it all boils down to.
If I walked in to a court house right now and married a random homeless person, no one would question my motive.
But if I walked in to a court house right now with someone who was wealthy with fantastic insurance and married them, it would be drawn in to question.
Yet people quickie marry in Vegas while drunk and no one cares

Nobody cares about who you marry, until they have to shell out money because of it, or give you something for it. The government doesn't care if you marry on paper only as long as you don't derive any tax or support benefit, neither does the insurance company.

If you marry a random stranger and not get anything out of it, nobody cares, really.

hypotrochoid · August 2013

I feel like a lot of peoples morals and ideals and maybe even religious beliefs are coming into play here.
So the government gives perks to two people who get married. Why? Because they love each other? Why should the government care?
If you choose to marry (partner up with someone for government perks) that's on you. You better trust the person you choose, but I wouldn't think any less of someone for it.
Yes, it's fraud. Don't get caught. Just because something is illegal doesn't necessarily make it morally wrong.

How is it fraud? You entered into a legal contract with another person. There's no 'love, honor, and obey' that *has* to be part of a marriage ceremony, and really, so long as you pass the blood test and the person isn't your first cousin (not applicable in some states) the people handing out the license couldn't probably care less about how you conduct your affairs afterward.

Leather_N_Lace · August 2013

Nope.. Couldn't do it..

RAFValentina · August 2013

No because a) it's highly illegal, b) we have the NHS and c) I have taken out health insurance with no excess from the age of 21 and up to then I was on my fathers and aside my health and fitness outgoings (gym kit and good quality food) it's one of the only thing I'd spend jobseekers allowance on if I had no job... plus the military has a great health package...

But ultimately, I wouldn't be so fraudulent... in times of desperation, even medically, there are always other options and charities to help with these kinds of things.

Juliejustsaying · August 2013

I feel like a lot of peoples morals and ideals and maybe even religious beliefs are coming into play here.
So the government gives perks to two people who get married. Why? Because they love each other? Why should the government care?
If you choose to marry (partner up with someone for government perks) that's on you. You better trust the person you choose, but I wouldn't think any less of someone for it.
Yes, it's fraud. Don't get caught. Just because something is illegal doesn't necessarily make it morally wrong.

nope it isn't illegal...unless you are getting married for immigration status...as american citizens you can marry anyone you want that isn't a blood relation (as defined in the contract). Marriage is civil...and legally binding...a spiritual marriage in a religion is different..that is why the catholics can get divorced, but also need to annul their spiritual bond through the church. So many people don't understand this. *sigh*...the government doesn't give a crap if you are in love or not it has no bearing on the legality of the marriage. ONLY if it grants immigration status.

seriously people.

HikerRR50 · August 2013

Why not just try to get hired where they work? adjust your skills if you don't currently have them to work were the benifits are. Marraige should mean more than a financial gain of some sort - IMO

ninerbuff · August 2013

If you found yourself in an unfortunate situation, would you contract marry someone?

For example, you have a health problem and a friend of yours has fantastic insurance (that also treats old/standing issues). Would you marry them for their insurance if you two agreed - living separate lives as friends only?

Meaning: you can file taxes together, live in different states, no sex between you two, be in a committed relationship with someone else, vacation separately, workout together, etc. Basically, you'd be completely platonic, but legally married.

Why not? Marriage by law is a legal document anyway. Just getting married by religion, etc. doesn't legally show marriage. Same with divorce.

It's a contract. Only thing I'd include is a prenup so neither tries to hose the other.

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lisy28 · August 2013

Live in Canada!!! you don't have to be married but have been together aka lived together for I believe 6 months and are considered common law and can share each others benefits with out having to legally do anything!!!

BAM problem solved

gogoboobzilla · August 2013

I feel like a lot of peoples morals and ideals and maybe even religious beliefs are coming into play here.
So the government gives perks to two people who get married. Why? Because they love each other? Why should the government care?
If you choose to marry (partner up with someone for government perks) that's on you. You better trust the person you choose, but I wouldn't think any less of someone for it.
Yes, it's fraud. Don't get caught. Just because something is illegal doesn't necessarily make it morally wrong.

How is it fraud? You entered into a legal contract with another person. There's no 'love, honor, and obey' that *has* to be part of a marriage ceremony, and really, so long as you pass the blood test and the person isn't your first cousin (not applicable in some states) the people handing out the license couldn't probably care less about how you conduct your affairs afterward.

I'd say it's fraud because of the way marriage is currently understood in the United States. When I got married at the City Clerks office, pretty much the most clinical way possible, we were expected to hold hands and there was a speech about all of the "love, honor, obey" stuff as part of the official ceremony. Even if you or I believe it should be a legal contract, that's not how the general populace sees it, or even the government. If it were a legal contract, ther'd be no reason to exclude men. But as it stands, it's based in Christianity.

twinketta · August 2013

A big fat NO

jenifr818 · August 2013

If you found yourself in an unfortunate situation, would you contract marry someone?

For example, you have a health problem and a friend of yours has fantastic insurance (that also treats old/standing issues). Would you marry them for their insurance if you two agreed - living separate lives as friends only?

Meaning: you can file taxes together, live in different states, no sex between you two, be in a committed relationship with someone else, vacation separately, workout together, etc. Basically, you'd be completely platonic, but legally married.

I don't see an issue. As long as you're both OK with the idea (as in, blackmail and other fun stuff isn't involved), then sure. I don't think it's fraud ... most insurance that I'm aware of doesn't require you to actually live together and could care less if you actually "love" the other person. Obviously, you want to be upfront with any potential REAL relationships and let them know. I can see that being a dealbreaker though for the people you might actually be interested in.

calibriintx · August 2013

There is a board for Debatable Debating. I recommend you go to that group.

an actual board for it, or a group?

I would be interested in posting this topic where people aren't like,
ZOMG I CANNOT BELIEVE YOU WOULD EVEN CONSIDER SOMETHING THAT'S NOT IN COMPLETE AGREEMENT WITH WHAT I BELIEVE TO BE RIGHT/CORRECT/GOOD!!!

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/groups/home/116-debatable-debating

lilRicki · August 2013

This is clearly a USA problem...my man and my step-child are under my insurance, we aren't married, the kid isn't legally mine...i can put who ever the hell I want under my insurance. Yet again, makes me super happy I don't live in the States.

calibriintx · August 2013

I'm failing to see how this is much different than people who marry because they got pregnant.

Or stay together because they "can't afford to divorce".

Or people who fight constantly and hate each other but "don't want to divorce".

Or people who marry, but choose to live in separete cities/states/countries because of a job or schooling.

Or couples who are "actively" married but don't have sex.

Or a couple that's been together for many many years without the legally binding part... then choose to get married when one of them develops, for example, cancer, because they need the marriage blessing for insurance purposes.

The main difference, as far as I can tell, is a well thought out agreement and how to handle various situations, which most people don't think about when they decide to tie the knot.
For that fact of the matter, what is the difference between a good contract marriage and a solid pre-nup?

Those don't seem like very good comparisons. Seems more comparable to a green card marriage, IMO. What do you think of those, OP?

I do not have a problem with green card marriages so long as they actually act married and care for each other, and aren't random to each other - I agree with them more than getting married "just because we're pregnant".

Or worse, staying together "for the children". THAT should carry a fine and a jail sentence.

I meant green card marriages where they have no intention of being married. It's just for the citizenship. < Which I think is completely wrong.

To address the original question, regarding insurance, I have no issue with it as long as the two parties have been honest on their marriage license application.

aakaakaak · August 2013

I contracted marriage once.

It's a horrible disease and extremely difficult to get rid of.

lilchino4af · August 2013

Do you understand the difference between buying an Ipod because you want it, then changing your mind and returning it and Stealing an Ipod?

This is what I read:

Do you understand the difference between getting married because you loved them, then changing your mind and divorcing them; and getting married in a well-planned way without the option to divorce?

(this doesn't make sense because you can't return something stolen, but you can still divorce or get an annulment with a pre-nup/contract marriage)

Sure you can return something that's stolen, you'd just go to jail since it's illegal.

As far as insurance fraud, I place an excerpt from the following website below (http://www.law.virginia.edu/html/news/2012_spr/marriage_fraud.htm):

For example, in health care fraud cases, insurance companies don’t usually care about whether a couple is acting married. If they are legally married, then that’s enough to get the benefit; the cases that are brought are usually about people who weren’t legally married but pretended to be.

As for me and whether I'd do that, no, it's against what I believe marriage should be.

littlelaura · August 2013

A lot of people marry for a variety of reasons, some marry for money, some marry for a trophy spouse, some marry for image, and some do marry for love. I don't think the government gives a rats *kitten* if you marry for love. If you are married and its a legal marriage be it a civil union or religious ceremony then it is not illegal to give your partner benefits.

While someone may disapprove of this morally, how many people married for love and like the OP and stay together when they fall out of love for financial reasons, for the children, because they cant afford to separate or divorce, they have too much invested to walk away so stay legally married yet live completely separate lives. Tons of people so this, its not illegal.

I personally couldn't marry anyone if I wasn't in love with them, any more than I could be intimate with anyone without being in love with them, so its a mute point for me. To each their own. I don't judge.

supertracylynn · August 2013

There is a board for Debatable Debating. I recommend you go to that group.

an actual board for it, or a group?

I would be interested in posting this topic where people aren't like,
ZOMG I CANNOT BELIEVE YOU WOULD EVEN CONSIDER SOMETHING THAT'S NOT IN COMPLETE AGREEMENT WITH WHAT I BELIEVE TO BE RIGHT/CORRECT/GOOD!!!

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/groups/home/116-debatable-debating

It's a group, I can't post in there.

CarmenSRT · August 2013

If you get married for the sole purpose of deriving some sort of benefit rather than for love, then it's a sham marriage. If for some reason they (the government) scrutinize you, you won't come out unscathed.

Gold diggers everywhere just hissed in unison.