contract marriage?
Replies
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To OP:
I can see situations where I MIGHT consider it. But divorce is pricey (already doing that now), and I could see being legally married while still being allowed to date other people as an issue. Whoever you're trying to date could be potentially creeped out by it. If you do it for the insurance benefits, what if you fall in love with someone who doesn't have great insurance? Would you then feel tempted to NOT marry the person you love, in order to keep the benefits?
Unless it was an extreme situation, nah, pass. But I wouldn't judge someone for it.0 -
I wouldn't as I only want to get married for love, and not for anything else. However, I don't really see the big deal. Yes it's fraud if you're doing it solely for those purposes, but plenty of people get married for stupid reasons that don't count as fraud. How are they going to enforce it, are they going to spy on them and make sure they have sex? Or punish them if they live apart (which many genuine couples do anyway)
My problem is that any system that gives such perks for married couples, leaves itself open to this sort of thing. What about couples who don't really want to marry (they see it as just a piece of paper etc) but they do so for these exact reasons, are they commiting fraud, or is it ok just because they're having sex? What if they're not having sex, is their marriage less valid? What about couples who marry just as the other is dying?? All these are legal, but what makes them more morally right?
Also, I don't think anyone can use the arguement that "marriage should only be legal if you're doing it for love, everything else is illegal" when there are still states and countries that don't allow homosexual couples to marry [for love]. Even in a civil partnership you don't get the same rights, say if a partner dies, than a marriage.0 -
Eh, it might be "fraud", but the government brought it upon themselves. Allowing married people tax breaks, insurance coverage, inheritance, and various other treats keeps marriage in a special place of privilege, and penalizes those "single" individuals who don't choose to get married for personal reasons. There is no reason why the rest of society can't enjoy those "privileges" (especially healthcare, since that is obviously something that is not just needed by married individuals), so hell, if the opportunity came up for that, I'd do it. Marriage doesn't have to follow any set of standards for anyone but the two people marrying.0
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This is clearly a USA problem...my man and my step-child are under my insurance, we aren't married, the kid isn't legally mine...i can put who ever the hell I want under my insurance. Yet again, makes me super happy I don't live in the States.
Even more mind-blowing, many citizens are convinced that the US's outdated and ridiculous system of attaching insurance to marriage is actually superior to those worldwide where people are covered simply for being people, and not because they're following some mandated institution.
Apparently, having one of the most inefficient, bloated, inaccessible and overly expensive systems worldwide just makes the US more "free".
Whatever that means..0 -
Why not? Probably better, and would last longer than most marriages that happen today. Why is it an issue if Britany Spears can marry someone for 72 hours, then get an annulment?
I know many (before getting rid of DADT) military members that contract married for their life to be more discreet. Those were the gay/lesbian ones. I know many that married to make their life in general easier, get better housing, etc.
Realistically, who is going to be watching what you do behind your front door? Not only that, but who the hell cares? Why is it ANYONE's business, besides the two people in the 'contract'? Here's a newsflash: IT'S NOT!0 -
i thought getting married for medical insurance is not against the law, just frowned upon?0
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O.o
Yup, totally the gay agenda ruining the sanctity of marriage.0 -
No.
NO.
NNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOO
1. marriage is.........not that
2. that's insurance fraud
3. I'm only getting married once.
4. Divorce is more expensive than dental work.
This.0 -
My husband and I have a contract. He does not say no an I always say yes. Oh an he always buys me wine
Addint that to our upcoming marriage contract, along with he always takes out the garbage and has to chop all the onions!
But to answer the original question: Yes. . .legally married to me is completely different than spiritually married. A binding legal contract sanctioned by the state is not the same ot me as a marriage of the heart/mind/spirit sanctioned by a church, or comparable religious preference.0 -
My parents were happily married for 25 years....She lived in California, he lived in Arizona!! Mom had coverage on Dad's insurance, retired from the Carpenter's Union...worked for them
I also know of older couples getting a divorce, because one was on Social Security and was $$$ penalized, for the fact that the spouse was still employed!!:ohwell:0 -
If you found yourself in an unfortunate situation, would you contract marry someone? For example, you have a health problem and a friend of yours has fantastic insurance (that also treats old/standing issues). Would you marry them for their insurance if you two agreed - living separate lives as friends only?
Meaning: you can file taxes together, live in different states, no sex between you two, be in a committed relationship with someone else, vacation separately, workout together, etc. Basically, you'd be completely platonic, but legally married.
There is no way to be married, yet completely platonic.0 -
I'm failing to see how this is much different than people who marry because they got pregnant.
Or stay together because they "can't afford to divorce".
Or people who fight constantly and hate each other but "don't want to divorce".
Or people who marry, but choose to live in separete cities/states/countries because of a job or schooling.
Or couples who are "actively" married but don't have sex.
Or a couple that's been together for many many years without the legally binding part... then choose to get married when one of them develops, for example, cancer, because they need the marriage blessing for insurance purposes.
The main difference, as far as I can tell, is a well thought out agreement and how to handle various situations, which most people don't think about when they decide to tie the knot.
For that fact of the matter, what is the difference between a good contract marriage and a solid pre-nup?
Those don't seem like very good comparisons. Seems more comparable to a green card marriage, IMO. What do you think of those, OP?
I do not have a problem with green card marriages so long as they actually act married and care for each other, and aren't random to each other - I agree with them more than getting married "just because we're pregnant".
Or worse, staying together "for the children". THAT should carry a fine and a jail sentence.
I meant green card marriages where they have no intention of being married. It's just for the citizenship. < Which I think is completely wrong.
To address the original question, regarding insurance, I have no issue with it as long as the two parties have been honest on their marriage license application.
My parents stayed together (and are still married, just not together) "for the children." Compared to a lot of people, I had a great childhood, even though we didn't have much money. I love both my parents and feel sad that their marriage didn't work. They are still amicable and have a respectable relationship.
Would you fine and jail them just because later on they just became friends?0 -
O.o
Yup, totally the gay agenda ruining the sanctity of marriage.
Good thing my fiance is Canadian...0 -
I'm failing to see how this is much different than people who marry because they got pregnant.
Or stay together because they "can't afford to divorce".
Or people who fight constantly and hate each other but "don't want to divorce".
Or people who marry, but choose to live in separete cities/states/countries because of a job or schooling.
Or couples who are "actively" married but don't have sex.
Or a couple that's been together for many many years without the legally binding part... then choose to get married when one of them develops, for example, cancer, because they need the marriage blessing for insurance purposes.
The main difference, as far as I can tell, is a well thought out agreement and how to handle various situations, which most people don't think about when they decide to tie the knot.
For that fact of the matter, what is the difference between a good contract marriage and a solid pre-nup?
Those don't seem like very good comparisons. Seems more comparable to a green card marriage, IMO. What do you think of those, OP?
I do not have a problem with green card marriages so long as they actually act married and care for each other, and aren't random to each other - I agree with them more than getting married "just because we're pregnant".
Or worse, staying together "for the children". THAT should carry a fine and a jail sentence.
my first marriage was because I was pregnant. My parents said they would disown me if I didn't, so I did.0 -
If you found yourself in an unfortunate situation, would you contract marry someone? For example, you have a health problem and a friend of yours has fantastic insurance (that also treats old/standing issues). Would you marry them for their insurance if you two agreed - living separate lives as friends only?
Meaning: you can file taxes together, live in different states, no sex between you two, be in a committed relationship with someone else, vacation separately, workout together, etc. Basically, you'd be completely platonic, but legally married.
There is no way to be married, yet completely platonic.
How do you figure? If two people got married solely for insurance benefits, lived separately, and only communicated every so often to discuss benefits, how is that not completely platonic?0 -
There is a board for Debatable Debating. I recommend you go to that group.
an actual board for it, or a group?
I would be interested in posting this topic where people aren't like,
ZOMG I CANNOT BELIEVE YOU WOULD EVEN CONSIDER SOMETHING THAT'S NOT IN COMPLETE AGREEMENT WITH WHAT I BELIEVE TO BE RIGHT/CORRECT/GOOD!!!
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/groups/home/116-debatable-debating
It's a group, I can't post in there.
If the intricacies of pressing a green button are beyond you...0 -
I'm failing to see how this is much different than people who marry because they got pregnant.
Or stay together because they "can't afford to divorce".
Or people who fight constantly and hate each other but "don't want to divorce".
Or people who marry, but choose to live in separete cities/states/countries because of a job or schooling.
Or couples who are "actively" married but don't have sex.
Or a couple that's been together for many many years without the legally binding part... then choose to get married when one of them develops, for example, cancer, because they need the marriage blessing for insurance purposes.
The main difference, as far as I can tell, is a well thought out agreement and how to handle various situations, which most people don't think about when they decide to tie the knot.
For that fact of the matter, what is the difference between a good contract marriage and a solid pre-nup?
Love?0 -
Unless you are marrying someone to get them citizenship, marrying someone for any other reason is not fraud. I don't know where the idea came from that a marriage had to be consummated to be a true marriage or that you had to love someone who you are entering into a legal contract with. I think people are reading too many historical romance books. There are lots of reasons to get married & marrying for something other than love does not make the other marriages fraudulent. Nobody is going to come after you if you use your insurance & quiz you about whether you love your spouse enough to use their benefits. HELLO! This is America! I'd totally sue for that :laugh: ! If I weren't already married & the situation was dire enough, then yes, I might do it. As someone who has struggled to pay for therapy for one of my kids, the idea that there are organizations and charities out there waiting to help you pay your medical bills is laughable.0
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Live in Canada!!! you don't have to be married but have been together aka lived together for I believe 6 months and are considered common law and can share each others benefits with out having to legally do anything!!!
BAM problem solved
6 months is the time, but if you break up anything bought together during that time can be divided just as if you were married...0 -
There is a board for Debatable Debating. I recommend you go to that group.
an actual board for it, or a group?
I would be interested in posting this topic where people aren't like,
ZOMG I CANNOT BELIEVE YOU WOULD EVEN CONSIDER SOMETHING THAT'S NOT IN COMPLETE AGREEMENT WITH WHAT I BELIEVE TO BE RIGHT/CORRECT/GOOD!!!
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/groups/home/116-debatable-debating
It's a group, I can't post in there.
If the intricacies of pressing a green button are beyond you...
I assumed she is posting from her phone and cannot access the group section.0 -
Just curious what the medical condition is and why don't they have insurance of their own?0
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My husband and I have a contract. He does not say no an I always say yes. Oh an he always buys me wine
My husband is your husbands' twin. And mine brings coffee in bed every day!!
OP: No, I would not do it. Marriage is a contract of the heart for me, among other things....0 -
Why not...you know this idea of romantic love is a fairly new concept. Most marriages throughout history are based on contractual basis either for power or money. There isn't anything wrong with it.
Shoot there are children right now that are being married off for cattle.0 -
My husband and I have a contract. He does not say no an I always say yes. Oh an he always buys me wine
can you teach my BF this because he still doesn't understand? Think he has some sort of say poor slow boy.0 -
why would it be fraud...you are legally married. End of story. Not like you defrauded the government by faking a marriage document. There's no law saying you have to be in love to be married.
Now if the stipulation is you live in the same city or maybe same address that might be a different story.0 -
No I wouldn't--IMO marriage is to important to be treated so flippantly. I married because I wanted to have a family and be with people I love for the rest of my life. Not for convenience.0
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No.
NO.
NNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOO
1. marriage is.........not that
2. that's insurance fraud
3. I'm only getting married once.
4. Divorce is more expensive than dental work.
I agree.
I'm not sure I could condem someone for doing this. I understand the motivation. I really do.
But personally it hits my ethics from two directions. I think marriage is important and this does not seem respectful of the arrangement's purpose which is to join two people's lives. And it seems like it might be fraud.0 -
I feel like a lot of peoples morals and ideals and maybe even religious beliefs are coming into play here.
So the government gives perks to two people who get married. Why? Because they love each other? Why should the government care?
If you choose to marry (partner up with someone for government perks) that's on you. You better trust the person you choose, but I wouldn't think any less of someone for it.
Yes, it's fraud. Don't get caught. Just because something is illegal doesn't necessarily make it morally wrong.
How is it fraud? You entered into a legal contract with another person. There's no 'love, honor, and obey' that *has* to be part of a marriage ceremony, and really, so long as you pass the blood test and the person isn't your first cousin (not applicable in some states) the people handing out the license couldn't probably care less about how you conduct your affairs afterward.
I'd say it's fraud because of the way marriage is currently understood in the United States. When I got married at the City Clerks office, pretty much the most clinical way possible, we were expected to hold hands and there was a speech about all of the "love, honor, obey" stuff as part of the official ceremony. Even if you or I believe it should be a legal contract, that's not how the general populace sees it, or even the government. If it were a legal contract, ther'd be no reason to exclude men. But as it stands, it's based in Christianity.
City officials made you promise to obey!! That's BS! Were you married in a southern state?0 -
Interesting debate...
Marriage can either be a beautiful thing or an ugly dilemma; IMO a marriage contract is what it is regardless of the reasons.
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This is clearly a USA problem...my man and my step-child are under my insurance, we aren't married, the kid isn't legally mine...i can put who ever the hell I want under my insurance. Yet again, makes me super happy I don't live in the States.
it certainly is a US problem :grumble:0
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