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Processed foods cause more weight gain

Phirrgus
Phirrgus Posts: 1,894 Member
Thread title paraphrased from article, links/sources etc within article.

https://www.businessinsider.com/how-processed-foods-lead-to-weight-gain-nih-study-2019-5
Groundbreaking research from the US National Institutes of Health suggests for the first time that the relationship is causal: no matter how nutritious they are, processed foods lead people to eat more and gain weight.

Personally speaking, the inability/unwillingness to release the food I'm holding and/or stop shoving it into my mouth caused me to gain weight, but to further elaborate, much of that was chicken/fish/veggies/lean beef and so on. I did not partake of massive amounts of what are currently thought of as "processed" foods.

But this seems to be getting thrust back into the public eye, so...thoughts?
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Replies

  • Phirrgus
    Phirrgus Posts: 1,894 Member
    MikePTY wrote: »
    Reading the article, the study's conclusion is more accurately described as "people who eat more processed food tend to eat more calories to feel full which causes them to gain weight." It's an important distinction for us calorie counters. I think processed food falls in the same category as added sugar and a bunch of other stuff, where it makes sense to recommend people limit it if they are not tracking their calories and just eating what they feel like until they feel full. But if you are tracking, and fitting things like processed foods and added sugar within your calorie goal, and finding yourself able to stay within it, then there is no real need to limit it.

    So on our end as calorie counters, I think if a person has trouble staying within their goals because they are constantly hungry, and they also eat a lot of processed food, then reducing their processed food consumption may be beneficial to try to see if it helps control their hunger cravings. But if they are able to successfully eat it within their goals, it won't cause any more or less weight gain than any non-processed food.
    That's basically the point of the article. From the National institute link:
    Increased availability and consumption of ultra-processed foods have been associated with rising obesity prevalence, but scientists have not yet demonstrated that ultra-processed food causes obesity or adverse health outcomes. Researchers at the NIH investigated whether people ate more calories when exposed to a diet composed of ultra-processed foods compared with a diet composed of unprocessed foods. Despite the ultra-processed and unprocessed diets being matched for daily presented calories, sugar, fat, fiber, and macronutrients, people consumed more calories when exposed to the ultra-processed diet as compared to the unprocessed diet. Furthermore, people gained weight on the ultra-processed diet and lost weight on the unprocessed diet. Limiting consumption of ultra-processed food may be an effective strategy for obesity prevention and treatment.

    But the statement that both diets for the test subject were matched for daily presented calories, sugar, fat, fiber, and macronutrients - does that mean calorie amount? They aren't clear there and it gives the impression that people are gaining weight by simply eating those foods.
  • MikePTY
    MikePTY Posts: 3,814 Member
    edited May 2019

    I agree that wasn't clear, but to me that meant they were presented with similarly dense and caloric food in the processed and unprocessed group, and the processed group at more of that food. From the article:
    The participants' diets were precisely matched so that regardless of whether they were offered processed or unprocessed meals, they were given exactly the same amount of protein, fat, carbs, salt, and sugar to eat. They were instructed to eat as much food as they liked in 60-minute meal windows. They spent two weeks eating a processed diet, then switched and did two more weeks eating fresh meals.
    Participants consumed, on average, 500 more calories a day on the ultra-processed diet, when meals included foods like hot dogs, freezer pancakes, canned chili, and peanut-butter-and-jelly sandwiches.

    It doesn't seem that they are trying to make any claims that eating the same exact calories of processed or unprocessed food will result in weight gain. It's not even clear if the experiment recorded their weight gain. It was more about the caloric value of the food eaten if left to their own choices.
  • psychod787
    psychod787 Posts: 4,099 Member
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    Phirrgus wrote: »
    MikePTY wrote: »
    Reading the article, the study's conclusion is more accurately described as "people who eat more processed food tend to eat more calories to feel full which causes them to gain weight." It's an important distinction for us calorie counters. I think processed food falls in the same category as added sugar and a bunch of other stuff, where it makes sense to recommend people limit it if they are not tracking their calories and just eating what they feel like until they feel full. But if you are tracking, and fitting things like processed foods and added sugar within your calorie goal, and finding yourself able to stay within it, then there is no real need to limit it.

    So on our end as calorie counters, I think if a person has trouble staying within their goals because they are constantly hungry, and they also eat a lot of processed food, then reducing their processed food consumption may be beneficial to try to see if it helps control their hunger cravings. But if they are able to successfully eat it within their goals, it won't cause any more or less weight gain than any non-processed food.
    That's basically the point of the article. From the National institute link:
    Increased availability and consumption of ultra-processed foods have been associated with rising obesity prevalence, but scientists have not yet demonstrated that ultra-processed food causes obesity or adverse health outcomes. Researchers at the NIH investigated whether people ate more calories when exposed to a diet composed of ultra-processed foods compared with a diet composed of unprocessed foods. Despite the ultra-processed and unprocessed diets being matched for daily presented calories, sugar, fat, fiber, and macronutrients, people consumed more calories when exposed to the ultra-processed diet as compared to the unprocessed diet. Furthermore, people gained weight on the ultra-processed diet and lost weight on the unprocessed diet. Limiting consumption of ultra-processed food may be an effective strategy for obesity prevention and treatment.

    But the statement that both diets for the test subject were matched for daily presented calories, sugar, fat, fiber, and macronutrients - does that mean calorie amount? They aren't clear there and it gives the impression that people are gaining weight by simply eating those foods.

    I think they are clear they aren't matched for calorie amount. "They were instructed to eat as much food as they liked in 60-minute meal windows." The matching was because they did things like add fiber supplement to lemonade in the ultraprocessed option.

    The Kevin hall study was.. carbs, fat, protein and fiber. They were all equated..
  • sardelsa
    sardelsa Posts: 9,812 Member
    This makes sense. I always end up adding more processed or hyperpalatable (for me) foods when I'm trying to gain, it's just easier to eat even when I'm feeling full. In a deficit though it doesn't always work. If I have a donut or something as a snack my mental hunger/satisfaction will take over and I still won't overeat, I may even undereat because I feel like the donut took up more calories than it really did (assuming I'm not tracking).
  • Phirrgus
    Phirrgus Posts: 1,894 Member
    MikePTY wrote: »
    I agree that wasn't clear, but to me that meant they were presented with similarly dense and caloric food in the processed and unprocessed group, and the processed group at more of that food. From the article:
    The participants' diets were precisely matched so that regardless of whether they were offered processed or unprocessed meals, they were given exactly the same amount of protein, fat, carbs, salt, and sugar to eat. They were instructed to eat as much food as they liked in 60-minute meal windows. They spent two weeks eating a processed diet, then switched and did two more weeks eating fresh meals.
    Participants consumed, on average, 500 more calories a day on the ultra-processed diet, when meals included foods like hot dogs, freezer pancakes, canned chili, and peanut-butter-and-jelly sandwiches.

    It doesn't seem that they are trying to make any claims that eating the same exact calories of processed or unprocessed food will result in weight gain. It's not even clear if the experiment recorded their weight gain. It was more about the caloric value of the food eaten if left to their own choices.
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    Phirrgus wrote: »
    MikePTY wrote: »
    Reading the article, the study's conclusion is more accurately described as "people who eat more processed food tend to eat more calories to feel full which causes them to gain weight." It's an important distinction for us calorie counters. I think processed food falls in the same category as added sugar and a bunch of other stuff, where it makes sense to recommend people limit it if they are not tracking their calories and just eating what they feel like until they feel full. But if you are tracking, and fitting things like processed foods and added sugar within your calorie goal, and finding yourself able to stay within it, then there is no real need to limit it.

    So on our end as calorie counters, I think if a person has trouble staying within their goals because they are constantly hungry, and they also eat a lot of processed food, then reducing their processed food consumption may be beneficial to try to see if it helps control their hunger cravings. But if they are able to successfully eat it within their goals, it won't cause any more or less weight gain than any non-processed food.
    That's basically the point of the article. From the National institute link:
    Increased availability and consumption of ultra-processed foods have been associated with rising obesity prevalence, but scientists have not yet demonstrated that ultra-processed food causes obesity or adverse health outcomes. Researchers at the NIH investigated whether people ate more calories when exposed to a diet composed of ultra-processed foods compared with a diet composed of unprocessed foods. Despite the ultra-processed and unprocessed diets being matched for daily presented calories, sugar, fat, fiber, and macronutrients, people consumed more calories when exposed to the ultra-processed diet as compared to the unprocessed diet. Furthermore, people gained weight on the ultra-processed diet and lost weight on the unprocessed diet. Limiting consumption of ultra-processed food may be an effective strategy for obesity prevention and treatment.

    But the statement that both diets for the test subject were matched for daily presented calories, sugar, fat, fiber, and macronutrients - does that mean calorie amount? They aren't clear there and it gives the impression that people are gaining weight by simply eating those foods.

    I think they are clear they aren't matched for calorie amount. "They were instructed to eat as much food as they liked in 60-minute meal windows." The matching was because they did things like add fiber supplement to lemonade in the ultraprocessed option.

    Ok I misunderstood that then, thanks - from my standpoint though it does seem like there's something here worth looking into. The more of that type of food I eat, the more I want and I'm not alone apparently.
  • lemurcat2
    lemurcat2 Posts: 7,885 Member
    psychod787 wrote: »
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    Phirrgus wrote: »
    MikePTY wrote: »
    Reading the article, the study's conclusion is more accurately described as "people who eat more processed food tend to eat more calories to feel full which causes them to gain weight." It's an important distinction for us calorie counters. I think processed food falls in the same category as added sugar and a bunch of other stuff, where it makes sense to recommend people limit it if they are not tracking their calories and just eating what they feel like until they feel full. But if you are tracking, and fitting things like processed foods and added sugar within your calorie goal, and finding yourself able to stay within it, then there is no real need to limit it.

    So on our end as calorie counters, I think if a person has trouble staying within their goals because they are constantly hungry, and they also eat a lot of processed food, then reducing their processed food consumption may be beneficial to try to see if it helps control their hunger cravings. But if they are able to successfully eat it within their goals, it won't cause any more or less weight gain than any non-processed food.
    That's basically the point of the article. From the National institute link:
    Increased availability and consumption of ultra-processed foods have been associated with rising obesity prevalence, but scientists have not yet demonstrated that ultra-processed food causes obesity or adverse health outcomes. Researchers at the NIH investigated whether people ate more calories when exposed to a diet composed of ultra-processed foods compared with a diet composed of unprocessed foods. Despite the ultra-processed and unprocessed diets being matched for daily presented calories, sugar, fat, fiber, and macronutrients, people consumed more calories when exposed to the ultra-processed diet as compared to the unprocessed diet. Furthermore, people gained weight on the ultra-processed diet and lost weight on the unprocessed diet. Limiting consumption of ultra-processed food may be an effective strategy for obesity prevention and treatment.

    But the statement that both diets for the test subject were matched for daily presented calories, sugar, fat, fiber, and macronutrients - does that mean calorie amount? They aren't clear there and it gives the impression that people are gaining weight by simply eating those foods.

    I think they are clear they aren't matched for calorie amount. "They were instructed to eat as much food as they liked in 60-minute meal windows." The matching was because they did things like add fiber supplement to lemonade in the ultraprocessed option.

    The Kevin hall study was.. carbs, fat, protein and fiber. They were all equated..

    There are multiple Kevin Hall studies. This one was not matched for calories since you could eat as much as you liked.
  • lemurcat2
    lemurcat2 Posts: 7,885 Member
    Phirrgus wrote: »
    MikePTY wrote: »
    I agree that wasn't clear, but to me that meant they were presented with similarly dense and caloric food in the processed and unprocessed group, and the processed group at more of that food. From the article:
    The participants' diets were precisely matched so that regardless of whether they were offered processed or unprocessed meals, they were given exactly the same amount of protein, fat, carbs, salt, and sugar to eat. They were instructed to eat as much food as they liked in 60-minute meal windows. They spent two weeks eating a processed diet, then switched and did two more weeks eating fresh meals.
    Participants consumed, on average, 500 more calories a day on the ultra-processed diet, when meals included foods like hot dogs, freezer pancakes, canned chili, and peanut-butter-and-jelly sandwiches.

    It doesn't seem that they are trying to make any claims that eating the same exact calories of processed or unprocessed food will result in weight gain. It's not even clear if the experiment recorded their weight gain. It was more about the caloric value of the food eaten if left to their own choices.
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    Phirrgus wrote: »
    MikePTY wrote: »
    Reading the article, the study's conclusion is more accurately described as "people who eat more processed food tend to eat more calories to feel full which causes them to gain weight." It's an important distinction for us calorie counters. I think processed food falls in the same category as added sugar and a bunch of other stuff, where it makes sense to recommend people limit it if they are not tracking their calories and just eating what they feel like until they feel full. But if you are tracking, and fitting things like processed foods and added sugar within your calorie goal, and finding yourself able to stay within it, then there is no real need to limit it.

    So on our end as calorie counters, I think if a person has trouble staying within their goals because they are constantly hungry, and they also eat a lot of processed food, then reducing their processed food consumption may be beneficial to try to see if it helps control their hunger cravings. But if they are able to successfully eat it within their goals, it won't cause any more or less weight gain than any non-processed food.
    That's basically the point of the article. From the National institute link:
    Increased availability and consumption of ultra-processed foods have been associated with rising obesity prevalence, but scientists have not yet demonstrated that ultra-processed food causes obesity or adverse health outcomes. Researchers at the NIH investigated whether people ate more calories when exposed to a diet composed of ultra-processed foods compared with a diet composed of unprocessed foods. Despite the ultra-processed and unprocessed diets being matched for daily presented calories, sugar, fat, fiber, and macronutrients, people consumed more calories when exposed to the ultra-processed diet as compared to the unprocessed diet. Furthermore, people gained weight on the ultra-processed diet and lost weight on the unprocessed diet. Limiting consumption of ultra-processed food may be an effective strategy for obesity prevention and treatment.

    But the statement that both diets for the test subject were matched for daily presented calories, sugar, fat, fiber, and macronutrients - does that mean calorie amount? They aren't clear there and it gives the impression that people are gaining weight by simply eating those foods.

    I think they are clear they aren't matched for calorie amount. "They were instructed to eat as much food as they liked in 60-minute meal windows." The matching was because they did things like add fiber supplement to lemonade in the ultraprocessed option.

    Ok I misunderstood that then, thanks - from my standpoint though it does seem like there's something here worth looking into. The more of that type of food I eat, the more I want and I'm not alone apparently.

    Eating foods where you find it easier to or naturally stop eating at a maintenance or deficit calorie number would be "something here worth looking into."

    I suspect the results would be somewhat different with different choices for what constitutes the whole foods diet, however.
  • psychod787
    psychod787 Posts: 4,099 Member
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    psychod787 wrote: »
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    Phirrgus wrote: »
    MikePTY wrote: »
    Reading the article, the study's conclusion is more accurately described as "people who eat more processed food tend to eat more calories to feel full which causes them to gain weight." It's an important distinction for us calorie counters. I think processed food falls in the same category as added sugar and a bunch of other stuff, where it makes sense to recommend people limit it if they are not tracking their calories and just eating what they feel like until they feel full. But if you are tracking, and fitting things like processed foods and added sugar within your calorie goal, and finding yourself able to stay within it, then there is no real need to limit it.

    So on our end as calorie counters, I think if a person has trouble staying within their goals because they are constantly hungry, and they also eat a lot of processed food, then reducing their processed food consumption may be beneficial to try to see if it helps control their hunger cravings. But if they are able to successfully eat it within their goals, it won't cause any more or less weight gain than any non-processed food.
    That's basically the point of the article. From the National institute link:
    Increased availability and consumption of ultra-processed foods have been associated with rising obesity prevalence, but scientists have not yet demonstrated that ultra-processed food causes obesity or adverse health outcomes. Researchers at the NIH investigated whether people ate more calories when exposed to a diet composed of ultra-processed foods compared with a diet composed of unprocessed foods. Despite the ultra-processed and unprocessed diets being matched for daily presented calories, sugar, fat, fiber, and macronutrients, people consumed more calories when exposed to the ultra-processed diet as compared to the unprocessed diet. Furthermore, people gained weight on the ultra-processed diet and lost weight on the unprocessed diet. Limiting consumption of ultra-processed food may be an effective strategy for obesity prevention and treatment.

    But the statement that both diets for the test subject were matched for daily presented calories, sugar, fat, fiber, and macronutrients - does that mean calorie amount? They aren't clear there and it gives the impression that people are gaining weight by simply eating those foods.

    I think they are clear they aren't matched for calorie amount. "They were instructed to eat as much food as they liked in 60-minute meal windows." The matching was because they did things like add fiber supplement to lemonade in the ultraprocessed option.

    The Kevin hall study was.. carbs, fat, protein and fiber. They were all equated..

    There are multiple Kevin Hall studies. This one was not matched for calories since you could eat as much as you liked.

    The meals were all equated... thus showing the overconsumption of the Hyperpalitable..
  • Phirrgus
    Phirrgus Posts: 1,894 Member
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    But they did not eat the same amount of calories.

    I like the study too, and am not remotely surprised at the results. IMO, if not counting, one helpful strategy is to do more home cooking and eat more whole foods. But this does not mean that "processing" or "chemicals" and not calories are the source of weight gain.
    Disclaimer..sorry for all the bolds..for some reason my mobile device is being a pain with the quotes...
    I'm still a little torn on this. In order for the study to determine that the "processed" foods led to an average 500 calorie increase, they had to have an idea how many calories were being consumed, so some type of counting had to take place, even though it states they were instructed to eat as much as they like.

    The participants' diets were precisely matched so that regardless of whether they were offered processed or unprocessed meals, they were given exactly the same amount of protein, fat, carbs, salt, and sugar to eat. They were instructed to eat as much food as they liked in 60-minute meal windows. They spent two weeks eating a processed diet, then switched and did two more weeks eating fresh meals.


    And while I'm not clear either on exactly what constitutes "processed" vs ultra processed etc...they do give a good sample of what they considered processed.

    Participants consumed, on average, 500 more calories a day on the ultra-processed diet, when meals included foods like hot dogs, freezer pancakes, canned chili, and peanut-butter-and-jelly sandwiches. Those eating processed foods also gained about two pounds in those two weeks. Regardless of the person's weight or sex, they ate more carbs and fat on a processed-food diet.

    The difference between processed and unprocessed meals is subtle on the surface; both diet groups ate cereals, eggs, beans, and pastas. However, in the unprocessed group, the ingredients were fresher, with no additives or preservatives in the meals. Additionally, whole foods and unrefined ingredients were used (eggs and potatoes were prepared from scratch, for example).
  • amusedmonkey
    amusedmonkey Posts: 10,330 Member
    edited May 2019
    It's common sense to me that if a food is larger in volume I'm more likely to feel full eating it (they matched for nutrients but did they match for volume?), and that if I like the food enough to want to eat more of it beyond fullness I will be eating more of it beyond fullness. This applies to both processed and minimally processed foods. Try and stop me from overeating nuts or dates because they're low volume and I need a large amount of them to be mentally satisfied.

    Only tangentially related to this study, but I think there is one thing I rarely see discussed. If a person's diet is mainly minimally processed because that's their eating preference, would ultra-processed foods have the same effect if matched for volume, not just for nutrients? Would that person be prone to overeating their familiar and preferred diet than they would their less familiar and less preferred diet? We like to classify and generalize, but are we really making the right classifications and reaching for the right data? Would it be fair to say that many of the people tested were very familiar with some of these ultra-processed foods that had a consistent familiar taste and enjoyed them?

    I remember watching a documentary (unrelated to nutrition) how a person who lived in a tribe then visited a modern city and ate the food, they lost weight because the meat did not taste like meat, and everything had a weird flavor and texture.
  • Phirrgus
    Phirrgus Posts: 1,894 Member
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    Phirrgus wrote: »
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    But they did not eat the same amount of calories.

    I like the study too, and am not remotely surprised at the results. IMO, if not counting, one helpful strategy is to do more home cooking and eat more whole foods. But this does not mean that "processing" or "chemicals" and not calories are the source of weight gain.
    Disclaimer..sorry for all the bolds..for some reason my mobile device is being a pain with the quotes...
    I'm still a little torn on this. In order for the study to determine that the "processed" foods led to an average 500 calorie increase, they had to have an idea how many calories were being consumed, so some type of counting had to take place, even though it states they were instructed to eat as much as they like.

    The participants' diets were precisely matched so that regardless of whether they were offered processed or unprocessed meals, they were given exactly the same amount of protein, fat, carbs, salt, and sugar to eat. They were instructed to eat as much food as they liked in 60-minute meal windows. They spent two weeks eating a processed diet, then switched and did two more weeks eating fresh meals.


    And while I'm not clear either on exactly what constitutes "processed" vs ultra processed etc...they do give a good sample of what they considered processed.

    Participants consumed, on average, 500 more calories a day on the ultra-processed diet, when meals included foods like hot dogs, freezer pancakes, canned chili, and peanut-butter-and-jelly sandwiches. Those eating processed foods also gained about two pounds in those two weeks. Regardless of the person's weight or sex, they ate more carbs and fat on a processed-food diet.

    The difference between processed and unprocessed meals is subtle on the surface; both diet groups ate cereals, eggs, beans, and pastas. However, in the unprocessed group, the ingredients were fresher, with no additives or preservatives in the meals. Additionally, whole foods and unrefined ingredients were used (eggs and potatoes were prepared from scratch, for example).

    Replying to "I'm still a little torn on this. In order for the study to determine that the "processed" foods led to an average 500 calorie increase, they had to have an idea how many calories were being consumed, so some type of counting had to take place, even though it states they were instructed to eat as much as they like." (since I cant use bold to highlight it).

    I believe the people doing the eating didn't count, i.e., they weren't eating in a calorie-aware way, let alone an intentionally calorie-managing way.

    The researchers counted.

    That's what folks are getting at in saying this is about satiation, not necessarily processed-ness per se.

    Distinctions......elude me sometimes :D Thanks for the clarification :)
  • Phirrgus
    Phirrgus Posts: 1,894 Member
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    Phirrgus wrote: »
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    But they did not eat the same amount of calories.

    I like the study too, and am not remotely surprised at the results. IMO, if not counting, one helpful strategy is to do more home cooking and eat more whole foods. But this does not mean that "processing" or "chemicals" and not calories are the source of weight gain.

    Disclaimer..sorry for all the bolds..for some reason my mobile device is being a pain with the quotes...
    I'm still a little torn on this. In order for the study to determine that the "processed" foods led to an average 500 calorie increase, they had to have an idea how many calories were being consumed, so some type of counting had to take place, even though it states they were instructed to eat as much as they like.

    "The participants' diets were precisely matched so that regardless of whether they were offered processed or unprocessed meals, they were given exactly the same amount of protein, fat, carbs, salt, and sugar to eat. They were instructed to eat as much food as they liked in 60-minute meal windows. They spent two weeks eating a processed diet, then switched and did two more weeks eating fresh meals."

    And while I'm not clear either on exactly what constitutes "processed" vs ultra processed etc...they do give a good sample of what they considered processed.

    "Participants consumed, on average, 500 more calories a day on the ultra-processed diet, when meals included foods like hot dogs, freezer pancakes, canned chili, and peanut-butter-and-jelly sandwiches. Those eating processed foods also gained about two pounds in those two weeks. Regardless of the person's weight or sex, they ate more carbs and fat on a processed-food diet."

    The difference between processed and unprocessed meals is subtle on the surface; both diet groups ate cereals, eggs, beans, and pastas. However, in the unprocessed group, the ingredients were fresher, with no additives or preservatives in the meals. Additionally, whole foods and unrefined ingredients were used (eggs and potatoes were prepared from scratch, for example).

    As Ann said, the study did not rely on the eaters self-reporting how much they ate (which is IMO typically unreliable), but told them to eat what they wanted. The researchers gave them enough food (controlled for total cals, fiber, protein, etc.) and let them eat however much they wanted of the larger portions. The researchers then counted what was eaten.

    As I quoted from the study above:

    "Meals were designed to be matched for presented calories, energy density, macronutrients, sugar, sodium, and fiber. Subjects were instructed to consume as much or as little as desired. Energy intake was greater during the ultra-processed diet (508±106 kcal/d; p=0.0001), with increased consumption of carbohydrate (280±54 kcal/d; p<0.0001) and fat (230±53 kcal/d; p=0.0004) but not protein (-2±12 kcal/d; p=0.85). Weight changes were highly correlated with energy intake (r=0.8, p<0.0001) with participants gaining 0.8±0.3 kg (p=0.01) during the ultra-processed diet and losing 1.1±0.3 kg (p=0.001) during the unprocessed diet."

    You can see the menus in the study itself.

    I have not had time to look at them again, but although I generally am unsurprised by the results and would have predicted them, I also think that the conclusion that it's "ultraprocessed" vs. whole alone maybe ignores some other distinction in the menus (like fiber coming from fiber added to lemonade, and not food, in the ultraprocessed menu, far fewer veg, stuff like that). I suspect that the menus could be manipulated to change the result, although if we are comparing to "what people eat in real life on a daily basis when picking whole vs. ultraprocessed" it probably does have some real world applicability, mainly for those who are not already mindful about diet and nutrition.

    Re modifying the menus, I mean it's possible to choose ultraprocessed options that have more inherent fiber, would include more veg (although it requires more work), and it's also possible to create whole food based menus that people would likely overeat to the same degree (I go to plenty of farm-to-table type restaurants where that's so).* However, I think in the real world, again, the menus chosen are probably more consistent with the differences (although somewhat extreme, as I think most people may eat a mix).

    In any case, I think "generally cooking from scratch and eating a good amount of whole foods, esp veg and good sources of fiber and protein" is common sense advice that may well lead to weight loss for someone not already doing that (I also think it can be an easy way to have a healthy diet and its my preferred way to eat). But when someone says the issue is "processing," I think that's an oversimplification, although that's not at all a criticism of the study, more some of the reporting.

    *Quick example of what was fed them. One lunch had the ultraprocessed people eat Beef ravioli (Chef Boyardee), Parmesan cheese (Roseli), White bread (Ottenberg), Margarine (Glenview Farms), Diet lemonade (Crystal Light) with NutriSource fiber, and Oatmeal raisin cookies. The whole food people ate Spinach salad with chicken breast, apple slices, bulgur (Bob’s Red Mill), sunflower seeds (Nature’s Promise) and grapes, Vinaigrette made with olive oil,fresh squeezed lemon juice, apple cider vinegar (Giant), ground mustard seed (McCormick), black pepper (Monarch) and salt (Monarch). I see some major differences beyond processing in those two meals (and not that the unprocessed was less palatable, as it sounds much tastier to me).

    That makes sense to me, thanks, although it does seem there's still a world of debate over exactly where the "How processed is this food?" lines are drawn.

    I do agree with you by the way - my taste buds enjoy the "ultra-processed" stuff, but the fresh cooked from scratch meals are ultimately more satisfying to me.

    I do have to admit (this is my stumbling block) I do still seem to get easily confused over those small distinctions often cited in studies like this...but this is how I learn I guess.