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Gut Microbiome impact on Health and Fitness
Replies
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GaleHawkins wrote: »For now, our understanding of the influence of gut bacteria and drug metabolism is still in its infancy.
Pay close attention to the bolded sentence. This point has been made repeatedly yet you continue to ignore it
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NorthCascades wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »Autism symptoms reduced nearly 50 percent two years after fecal transplant
There goes nearly half our progress in software and science.
How do you think that is factual?
Do you not think all of the scientists working to make life better autistic children and their parents are doing a noble work? My hat is off to all of them where they strike out, get on base or make a homerun.
While there are some gains being made in understanding the prenatal prevention of autism by addressing future mothers gut microbiome health it will be decades before this effort goes mainstream if it becomes a proven solution in some cases. Millions of new cases of autism are in the pipeline to address post birth as best as possible.
We have known for 1000's years eating the right foods is a key factor of total health and mental well being. Now science is proving it in their research labs as we type. Cancer, Arthritis, Autism, etc diseases are starting to point back to the gut microbiome more and more that often can be fixed with the right kinds of food on the market today without spending any new money perhaps. Not sure about the medical complex but I bet health insurance carriers will be happy to hear this news. I know new parents will be excited with any pre or post birth autism solutions.
[Pause for your daily run on sentence] Well given that one of the reasons why people won't vaccinate their children is because a scientist and former doctor (Andrew Wakefield) falsely claimed that vaccines cause autism and, despite his "findings" summarily debunked, parents still won't vaccinate their children even if there is a measles outbreak, no - I don't think that all scientists and parents who working to make life better for autistic children (and adults) are doing noble work.
Neither do actual autistic people. Does what they want matter or should they shut up and accept everyone's help?
Many find the idea of a cure to be insulting. Autism isn't like a cold, it's a fundamental part of who people are. The Aspies I know are all great people with fantastic novel ways of seeing the world.
I wasn't planning to respond to these comments, but it's continued to bother me how you are taking the autism experiences you personally are familiar with, which sadly represent only a small segment of the ASD community, and making broad generalizations based on that. That's wonderful you have the opportunity to work with so many talented and capable autistic people. But not many are savants, possess the ability to "see in pictures", or have an all-consuming special interest that benefits society. Are you familiar at all with the statistics on unemployment and underemployment among those with ASD, including those considered high-functioning and who may be highly educated? With how many adults that still live at home and require the support of aging parents? Do you realize that many, if not most, struggle with comorbid conditions like anxiety, depression, and OCD? I wouldn't blame you if you didn't, because until very recently, I had no reason to know these things either.
Believe me, I struggle with the question of where my son's personality ends and his struggles begin, and I realize it's a subject of debate among some, but as with everything, I would hope that people would seek to become better informed and be open to learning from others' experiences before forming an opinion. 
Sorry for the derail.16 -
johnslater461 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »For now, our understanding of the influence of gut bacteria and drug metabolism is still in its infancy.
Pay close attention to the bolded sentence. This point has been made repeatedly yet you continue to ignore it
John exactly what point are you trying to make/debate in your above post?6 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »While this article is general in nature it does show the impact of one's gut microbiome impact Rx meds can greatly vary from person to person.
Gut bacteria may help explain why drugs don't work for everyone
https://medicalnewstoday.com/articles/325366.php
"Some drugs work well for one person but are ineffective for another; some also produce adverse events for certain individuals but not others. A study, using human gut bacteria and a mouse model, investigates whether our gut bacteria might help explain why."
"Scientists are now investigating gut bacteria's role in a diverse range of diseases, from Parkinson's disease to anxiety to heart disease.
Once an obscure niche of medical research, gut bacteria are now firmly in the spotlight."
"There are many reasons why people respond differently to the same drug, including age, sex, and diet. So, could the bacteria in our gut also be playing a role?
According to the latest team of researchers to look into this question, our microbiome contains 150 times more genes than our own genome. These microscopic tenants produce a wide array of enzymes, some of which can alter drugs, either activating them or rendering them ineffective."
"To investigate the interaction further, the scientists used gnotobiotic mice — animals free from microbes.
They found that 176 out of the 271 drugs (64.9%) could be metabolized by gut bacteria, reducing the drug's concentration significantly. They also showed that each strain of bacteria could metabolize 11–95 types of drug."
"In the future, it might be possible to modify a person's microbiome to ensure that a drug works effectively and reduce the risk of serious adverse events. However, scientists will need to carry out much more research to build up a clearer picture of how these interactions work.
For now, our understanding of the influence of gut bacteria and drug metabolism is still in its infancy. Nevertheless, the findings from this latest study make it seem likely that our gut bacteria are having at least some influence on the medicines we take."
There are a number of factors influencing pharamcokinetic activity - genetics, age, race, but gut bacteria? Unless the bacteria in question is utilizing the active pharmaceutical ingredient there is no provable influence.
This is like trying to change the earth climate by feeding lions broccoli or monitoring butterfly generated turbulence.10 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »While this article is general in nature it does show the impact of one's gut microbiome impact Rx meds can greatly vary from person to person.
Gut bacteria may help explain why drugs don't work for everyone
https://medicalnewstoday.com/articles/325366.php
"Some drugs work well for one person but are ineffective for another; some also produce adverse events for certain individuals but not others. A study, using human gut bacteria and a mouse model, investigates whether our gut bacteria might help explain why."
"Scientists are now investigating gut bacteria's role in a diverse range of diseases, from Parkinson's disease to anxiety to heart disease.
Once an obscure niche of medical research, gut bacteria are now firmly in the spotlight."
"There are many reasons why people respond differently to the same drug, including age, sex, and diet. So, could the bacteria in our gut also be playing a role?
According to the latest team of researchers to look into this question, our microbiome contains 150 times more genes than our own genome. These microscopic tenants produce a wide array of enzymes, some of which can alter drugs, either activating them or rendering them ineffective."
"To investigate the interaction further, the scientists used gnotobiotic mice — animals free from microbes.
They found that 176 out of the 271 drugs (64.9%) could be metabolized by gut bacteria, reducing the drug's concentration significantly. They also showed that each strain of bacteria could metabolize 11–95 types of drug."
"In the future, it might be possible to modify a person's microbiome to ensure that a drug works effectively and reduce the risk of serious adverse events. However, scientists will need to carry out much more research to build up a clearer picture of how these interactions work.
For now, our understanding of the influence of gut bacteria and drug metabolism is still in its infancy. Nevertheless, the findings from this latest study make it seem likely that our gut bacteria are having at least some influence on the medicines we take."
There are a number of factors influencing pharamcokinetic activity - genetics, age, race, but gut bacteria? Unless the bacteria in question is utilizing the active pharmaceutical ingredient there is no provable influence.
This is like trying to change the earth climate by feeding lions broccoli or monitoring butterfly generated turbulence.
Would have to agree with this; there is no data/evidence in any package insert I've ever read regarding gut bacteria in the pharmacokinetics section...age, creatinine clearance/renal function, Liver functions/liver substrates, race/genetics, fluid status/electrolytes, hell even gender - all valid parameters that can affect drug kinetics and dynamics (not gut flora).5 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »
In Australia, Fecal Microbiota Transplantation (FMT) was initially developed by Borody. At his Centre for Digestive Diseases in Sydney, Borody has overseen more than 18,000 FMTs for various disorders since 1987. He pioneered in Australia the use of FMT for colitis and Clostridium difficile infection...
Okay, kind of unrelated to anything but just to give credit where credit is due. Borody did not initially develop FMT, or at least not conceptually. He introduced the practice to the western world in its current form, but FMT is among some* of the slowly growing body of interesting, and successful, techniques/medicines that researchers looking at ancient texts, manuscripts, and folk practices have discovered recently. (These types of treatments often seem to involve success that depends on interactions between the body and bacteria, fungus, or substances that modern practices sterilize or otherwise alter in ways that eliminate whatever components made them successful).
FMT was basically practiced in ancient china. The entire concept is still known and practiced, in a variety of forms, in various parts of Asia, although the practice has been dying out. (seriously - check out poop wine. *shudder* - https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/7b7zmg/how-to-make-faeces-wine )
Not saying anything about autism or how the gut might or might not impact anything, but it does get a bit irritating to see non-western, or non-modern, medicinal practices that were derided for years suddenly claimed, polished up, and presented as though they are brand new ideas, you know?
*Another successful ancient remedy rediscovered was a recreation of a 1,000 year old Anglo-Saxon treatment for eye infections that turns out to kill about 90% of MRSA bacteria. (https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-32117815 )11 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »
In Australia, Fecal Microbiota Transplantation (FMT) was initially developed by Borody. At his Centre for Digestive Diseases in Sydney, Borody has overseen more than 18,000 FMTs for various disorders since 1987. He pioneered in Australia the use of FMT for colitis and Clostridium difficile infection...
Okay, kind of unrelated to anything but just to give credit where credit is due. Borody did not initially develop FMT, or at least not conceptually. He introduced the practice to the western world in its current form, but FMT is among some* of the slowly growing body of interesting, and successful, techniques/medicines that researchers looking at ancient texts, manuscripts, and folk practices have discovered recently. (These types of treatments often seem to involve success that depends on interactions between the body and bacteria, fungus, or substances that modern practices sterilize or otherwise alter in ways that eliminate whatever components made them successful).
FMT was basically practiced in ancient china. The entire concept is still known and practiced, in a variety of forms, in various parts of Asia, although the practice has been dying out. (seriously - check out poop wine. *shudder* - https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/7b7zmg/how-to-make-faeces-wine )
Not saying anything about autism or how the gut might or might not impact anything, but it does get a bit irritating to see non-western, or non-modern, medicinal practices that were derided for years suddenly claimed, polished up, and presented as though they are brand new ideas, you know?
*Another successful ancient remedy rediscovered was a recreation of a 1,000 year old Anglo-Saxon treatment for eye infections that turns out to kill about 90% of MRSA bacteria. (https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-32117815 )
@shaumom that is very interesting. There is the expression, There is nothing new under the sun.
It's very exciting about FMT broad potential with many diseases.
Thanks for sharing.6 -
I ran across the subject of CBD oil (cannabidiol) and autism late this evening and said what gives here? Well this is stuff our own body makes I learned. Having only had to deal with autism in a highly functional case it challenged my very being and healthcare training so I have no idea what some of you parents, friends and families have faced or are facing. I am tired and will just link to few links tonight and yes some links have agendas but tidbits of info to drill down on. Tomorrow is going to be a long day but if there are thoughts please post them and we can drill down on some of the new research that you want to post that is coming out as well as anecdotal accounts from parents and others. In my 68 years I have never been more interested in or hopeful about than learning about the gut microbiome and how in hindsight I now understand it may explain my major health gains over the past 5 years.
https://hellomd.com/health-wellness/5b3566f9bf4c4d000a0e751d/how-cannabis-can-keep-you-healthy-via-your-gut-microbiome
https://medicalxpress.com/news/2019-01-medical-cannabis-relieves-symptoms-children.html
https://kcci.com/article/iowa-6-year-old-shows-how-access-to-cbd-has-changed-her-life/27823036
https://healthline.com/health-news/parents-using-cbd-to-treat-kids-with-autism
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johnslater461 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »For now, our understanding of the influence of gut bacteria and drug metabolism is still in its infancy.
Pay close attention to the bolded sentence. This point has been made repeatedly yet you continue to ignore it
Why do you say I repeatedly ignore my own post? Do you not agree with the text above that you quoted that I copied and pasted along with the source?9 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »johnslater461 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »For now, our understanding of the influence of gut bacteria and drug metabolism is still in its infancy.
Pay close attention to the bolded sentence. This point has been made repeatedly yet you continue to ignore it
Why do you say I repeatedly ignore my own post? Do you not agree with the text above that you quoted that I copied and pasted along with the source?
You are either ignoring the bolded sentence, or you don't understand it.
Because anyone who reads and understands the phrase "our understanding is in its infancy" wouldn't be flooding the forums with posts attributing everything to gut bacteria.13 -
Are you taken back how many health issues relates back to the gut microbiome health?
My posts on the subject are more for those interesting in reading current science behind obesity and health in general. I do understand not everyone is into science but the myths passing as science is over the top in my view.20 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »Are you taken back how many health issues relates back to the gut microbiome health?
My posts on the subject are more for those interesting in reading current science behind obesity and health in general. I do understand not everyone is into science but the myths passing as science is over the top in my view.
What part of
Our understanding is in its infancy
don't you understand?
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GaleHawkins wrote: »Are you taken back how many health issues relates back to the gut microbiome health?
My posts on the subject are more for those interesting in reading current science behind obesity and health in general. I do understand not everyone is into science but the myths passing as science is over the top in my view.
I find it interesting that you seem to hold onto any published information that is fringe and still in its infancy so tightly, yet seem to disregard what is currently common practice. And then you post this:
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/comment/43818780/#Comment_43818780
proclaiming the deficiencies in published scientific works. Just an interesting dichotomy I've noticed.14 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »I ran across the subject of CBD oil (cannabidiol) and autism late this evening and said what gives here? Well this is stuff our own body makes I learned. Having only had to deal with autism in a highly functional case it challenged my very being and healthcare training so I have no idea what some of you parents, friends and families have faced or are facing. I am tired and will just link to few links tonight and yes some links have agendas but tidbits of info to drill down on. Tomorrow is going to be a long day but if there are thoughts please post them and we can drill down on some of the new research that you want to post that is coming out as well as anecdotal accounts from parents and others. In my 68 years I have never been more interested in or hopeful about than learning about the gut microbiome and how in hindsight I now understand it may explain my major health gains over the past 5 years.
https://hellomd.com/health-wellness/5b3566f9bf4c4d000a0e751d/how-cannabis-can-keep-you-healthy-via-your-gut-microbiome
https://medicalxpress.com/news/2019-01-medical-cannabis-relieves-symptoms-children.html
https://kcci.com/article/iowa-6-year-old-shows-how-access-to-cbd-has-changed-her-life/27823036
https://healthline.com/health-news/parents-using-cbd-to-treat-kids-with-autism
So, it wasn't keto, then?17 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »Are you taken back how many health issues relates back to the gut microbiome health?
My posts on the subject are more for those interesting in reading current science behind obesity and health in general. I do understand not everyone is into science but the myths passing as science is over the top in my view.
Oh, the irony.8 -
Interesting. What criteria do you you use for differentiating legitimate science from myth? Are your criteria robust enough that you can falsify your own beliefs? I find that to be the most useful aspect of science, not simply what we can know, but the certainty we can have because we can unknown things. Or as the saying (often attributed to Mark Twain, but perhaps not authenticate) goes "It ain't what you know that kills you; it's what you know that ain't so."GaleHawkins wrote: »Are you taken back how many health issues relates back to the gut microbiome health?
My posts on the subject are more for those interesting in reading current science behind obesity and health in general. I do understand not everyone is into science but the myths passing as science is over the top in my view.
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Nony_Mouse wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »I ran across the subject of CBD oil (cannabidiol) and autism late this evening and said what gives here? Well this is stuff our own body makes I learned. Having only had to deal with autism in a highly functional case it challenged my very being and healthcare training so I have no idea what some of you parents, friends and families have faced or are facing. I am tired and will just link to few links tonight and yes some links have agendas but tidbits of info to drill down on. Tomorrow is going to be a long day but if there are thoughts please post them and we can drill down on some of the new research that you want to post that is coming out as well as anecdotal accounts from parents and others. In my 68 years I have never been more interested in or hopeful about than learning about the gut microbiome and how in hindsight I now understand it may explain my major health gains over the past 5 years.
https://hellomd.com/health-wellness/5b3566f9bf4c4d000a0e751d/how-cannabis-can-keep-you-healthy-via-your-gut-microbiome
https://medicalxpress.com/news/2019-01-medical-cannabis-relieves-symptoms-children.html
https://kcci.com/article/iowa-6-year-old-shows-how-access-to-cbd-has-changed-her-life/27823036
https://healthline.com/health-news/parents-using-cbd-to-treat-kids-with-autism
So, it wasn't keto, then?
Since I have been keto since Oct 2014 I have no way to know it was not Keto. That keto changed my gut microbiome to a more healthy direction I expect but you can read more about that side effect below. As you know I went high on coconut oil and cut out foods with ADDED sugars/sweeteners and or any forms of any grains. That removed most all processed foods including processed meats shifting me more in the direction of a plant based diet.
https://lifeapps.io/nutrition/does-a-ketogenic-diet-change-our-microbiome/
DOES A KETOGENIC DIET CHANGE OUR MICROBIOME?
"How do the changes in the microbiome triggered by a ketogenic diet affect you?
It is clear that the ketogenic diet can cause changes to the microbiome, which in turn can influence the chemistry of the brain and confer seizure protection. When restricting carbohydrates or any food, it is possible to get rid of certain bacterial species in the gut while enriching others. What’s most interesting is that the bacteria that were found to be enriched by a ketogenic diet in the studies above have been shown to have positive effects when present in high amounts. For example, studies have shown that Akkermansia are beneficial microbes that positively affect glucose metabolism, lipid metabolism and intestinal immunity. Parabacteroides can have anti-inflammatory effects. All of these bacteria can interact with our brain through our gut.
Editor’s note: Akkermansia and Parabacteroides are both enriched by dietary interventions involving resistant starches (plant fibers) and polyphenols such as those contained in berries. These and other beneficial bacteria may be selected for in the gut by ketogenic diets that incorporate lots of plants and plant-based fats, as opposed to animal fats.
There is still much more to learn about how diet affects our overall health, but these studies show how certain gut bacteria may be used to target epilepsy or other ailments. It also shows us the importance of being mindful about what we eat, or what we don’t eat. The ketogenic diet appears to increases the amount of certain gut bacteria that can benefit us in more than one way, but more research needs to be done. The complexity of the human microbiome makes “one-size-fits-all” treatments based on gut microbes very unlikely. "
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What is the impact factor of lifeapps.io?2
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magnusthenerd wrote: »
Interesting. What criteria do you you use for differentiating legitimate science from myth? Are your criteria robust enough that you can falsify your own beliefs? I find that to be the most useful aspect of science, not simply what we can know, but the certainty we can have because we can unknown things. Or as the saying (often attributed to Mark Twain, but perhaps not authenticate) goes "It ain't what you know that kills you; it's what you know that ain't so."GaleHawkins wrote: »Are you taken back how many health issues relates back to the gut microbiome health?
My posts on the subject are more for those interesting in reading current science behind obesity and health in general. I do understand not everyone is into science but the myths passing as science is over the top in my view.
Since I do not tell others how they should or should not eat I tend to run with the Mark Twain thought you mentioned above for differentiating.6 -
johnslater461 wrote: »What is the impact factor of lifeapps.io?
That is a good question john so I Googled it for you. It seems to be a health related site per the recent link below.
https://lifeapps.io/disease/reprogram-your-cells-to-fight-diabetes/
REPROGRAM YOUR CELLS TO FIGHT DIABETES
JUNE 5, 2019|IN DIABETES, DISEASE, NUTRITION|BY JOANNA13 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »magnusthenerd wrote: »
Interesting. What criteria do you you use for differentiating legitimate science from myth? Are your criteria robust enough that you can falsify your own beliefs? I find that to be the most useful aspect of science, not simply what we can know, but the certainty we can have because we can unknown things. Or as the saying (often attributed to Mark Twain, but perhaps not authenticate) goes "It ain't what you know that kills you; it's what you know that ain't so."GaleHawkins wrote: »Are you taken back how many health issues relates back to the gut microbiome health?
My posts on the subject are more for those interesting in reading current science behind obesity and health in general. I do understand not everyone is into science but the myths passing as science is over the top in my view.
Since I do not tell others how they should or should not eat I tend to run with the Mark Twain thought you mentioned above for differentiating.
I don't follow. The quote isn't a way to differentiate, it explains the value of using science with Popper's falsification criteria which dominates modern science.
Do you not see a value in being able to discard false beliefs instead of just believing what you want to be true? I think that has value regardless of whether I wish to convince someone else - frankly it has the most value because it means someone else can convince me of something.7 -
Actually, this website is fairly straightforward about what it is on their About page:
https://lifeapps.io/about/
In short, they are a software company that sells "disruptive" software solutions to healthcare providers.
And from their Homepage, their content is written by "expert bloggers". Some of their bio provided credits include postdoctoral fellow, science communicator, and Social Media Director.
As to the above, "By Joanna" does not inspire confidence as the tagline for an article. While they do provide links to some published studies, the company has no directive to be thorough in the articles it publishes, and the writers are not experienced researchers or legit published authors in the fields they are writing about.
This field of research is quite interesting as a curiosity, but nowhere near vetted enough to be anything other than a conversation starter at this point. That's what "in it's infancy" means.9 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »johnslater461 wrote: »What is the impact factor of lifeapps.io?
That is a good question john so I Googled it for you. It seems to be a health related site per the recent link below.
https://lifeapps.io/disease/reprogram-your-cells-to-fight-diabetes/
REPROGRAM YOUR CELLS TO FIGHT DIABETES
JUNE 5, 2019|IN DIABETES, DISEASE, NUTRITION|BY JOANNA
So 0 then. Got it4 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »johnslater461 wrote: »What is the impact factor of lifeapps.io?
That is a good question john so I Googled it for you. It seems to be a health related site per the recent link below.
https://lifeapps.io/disease/reprogram-your-cells-to-fight-diabetes/
REPROGRAM YOUR CELLS TO FIGHT DIABETES
JUNE 5, 2019|IN DIABETES, DISEASE, NUTRITION|BY JOANNA
Because it was an easy google and I'm pretty sure you wouldn't have gotten that far given your sheer lack of understanding of what a references section is and this most recent post of yours.... you might want to skim this before replying further https://libguides.ioe.ac.uk/c.php?g=482311&p=32991025 -
https://rt.com/news/461682-blood-type-gut-bacteria/
Blood donation breakthrough sees scientists convert all types to O using gut bacteria
"In a breakthrough that could save thousands of lives, scientists have found a way to convert all blood types to the universal type that is safe for all patients to receive, by using microbes found in the human gut.
Researchers from the University of British Columbia have figured out how to convert blood types A, B and AB into the universal Type O, which all patients can receive in a transfusion, regardless of their own blood type.
Blood types are differentiated by the kinds of sugar found on the surface of red blood cells. Type O has no sugars. Scientists had realized that some enzymes can remove the sugars from A, B and AB blood cells, turning them into Type O, but they hadn’t found an enzyme that was safe, efficient and economical, until they considered the gut.
The human digestive tract has the same sugars found on blood cells, and bacterial enzymes found in feces strip the sugars from the lining to aid digestion. The scientists were able to isolate the enzyme and use it to strip blood of its sugars in a more efficient way than any other enzyme.
The scientists made the exciting discovery last August, but have just published the results of their research in the journal Nature Microbiology."
Perhaps the gut microbiome impact on health and fitness will continue well into the future.17 -
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https://gizmodo.com/fecal-transplant-patient-killed-by-superbug-traced-to-d-1835521476
Fecal Transplant Patient Killed by Superbug Traced to Donor Stool
" “FDA is informing members of the medical and scientific communities and other interested persons of the potential risk of transmission of [multidrug-resistant organisms] by FMT and the resultant serious adverse reactions that may occur,” the agency said in its safety communication.
It’s likely that the pre-existing health of both patients contributed to the severity of their illnesses, since both had weakened immune systems. But the infections could have been prevented had doctors in the trial been looking for these bacteria in donors to begin with, the FDA said.
In 2013, as FMT trials began taking off, the agency announced it would take a hands-off approach in regulating its early use for C. diff infections (generally, any new drug or treatment for a disease needs to go through a lengthy FDA approval process before it can be widely available). So long as patients were told upfront about the potential risks and experimental nature of the treatment by doctors, it would be less strict in approving or supervising new clinical trials. But as a result of these tragic cases, the agency is now demanding that all investigational trials preemptively screen their donors for risk factors that would make them more likely to have superbugs, as well as to test their donor samples for these bacteria. Doctors should tell their volunteers beforehand about these now-discovered serious risks, too. "3 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »https://gizmodo.com/fecal-transplant-patient-killed-by-superbug-traced-to-d-1835521476
Fecal Transplant Patient Killed by Superbug Traced to Donor Stool
" “FDA is informing members of the medical and scientific communities and other interested persons of the potential risk of transmission of [multidrug-resistant organisms] by FMT and the resultant serious adverse reactions that may occur,” the agency said in its safety communication.
It’s likely that the pre-existing health of both patients contributed to the severity of their illnesses, since both had weakened immune systems. But the infections could have been prevented had doctors in the trial been looking for these bacteria in donors to begin with, the FDA said.
In 2013, as FMT trials began taking off, the agency announced it would take a hands-off approach in regulating its early use for C. diff infections (generally, any new drug or treatment for a disease needs to go through a lengthy FDA approval process before it can be widely available). So long as patients were told upfront about the potential risks and experimental nature of the treatment by doctors, it would be less strict in approving or supervising new clinical trials. But as a result of these tragic cases, the agency is now demanding that all investigational trials preemptively screen their donors for risk factors that would make them more likely to have superbugs, as well as to test their donor samples for these bacteria. Doctors should tell their volunteers beforehand about these now-discovered serious risks, too. "
Hmmm..... the risks of just blindly following every new thing before the science has been hashed out.7 -
nutmegoreo wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »https://gizmodo.com/fecal-transplant-patient-killed-by-superbug-traced-to-d-1835521476
Fecal Transplant Patient Killed by Superbug Traced to Donor Stool
" “FDA is informing members of the medical and scientific communities and other interested persons of the potential risk of transmission of [multidrug-resistant organisms] by FMT and the resultant serious adverse reactions that may occur,” the agency said in its safety communication.
It’s likely that the pre-existing health of both patients contributed to the severity of their illnesses, since both had weakened immune systems. But the infections could have been prevented had doctors in the trial been looking for these bacteria in donors to begin with, the FDA said.
In 2013, as FMT trials began taking off, the agency announced it would take a hands-off approach in regulating its early use for C. diff infections (generally, any new drug or treatment for a disease needs to go through a lengthy FDA approval process before it can be widely available). So long as patients were told upfront about the potential risks and experimental nature of the treatment by doctors, it would be less strict in approving or supervising new clinical trials. But as a result of these tragic cases, the agency is now demanding that all investigational trials preemptively screen their donors for risk factors that would make them more likely to have superbugs, as well as to test their donor samples for these bacteria. Doctors should tell their volunteers beforehand about these now-discovered serious risks, too. "
Hmmm..... the risks of just blindly following every new thing before the science has been hashed out.
True but some trust their health decisions to healthcare professionals without vetting their advice. It has long been known compromised immune systems puts one at a higher risk of premature death from disease. We know FMT is awesome for some but it is important to know the quality of it as if it was a drug.
Changing the gut microbiome in the positive direction by diet alone seems to be the first step to try. I expect that is the reason Keto has worked so well for me since 2014. I can grasp the ideas behind FMT but why do it when there are more natural ways like changing the source of one calories and that will never be the same for everyone.
FMT for autism sounds very promising for kids.13 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »Autism symptoms reduced nearly 50 percent two years after fecal transplant
https://sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/04/190409093725.htm
"In a new study, "Long-term benefit of Microbiota Transfer Therapy in Autism Symptoms and Gut Microbiota," published in Scientific Reports, Arizona State University researchers Rosa Krajmalnik-Brown, Ph.D., James Adams, Ph.D, and lead author Dae-Wook Kang, Ph.D, demonstrate long-term beneficial effects for children diagnosed with ASD through a revolutionary technique known as Microbiota Transfer Therapy (MTT), a special type of fecal transplant originally pioneered by Dr. Thomas Borody, an Australian gastroenterologist. Remarkably, improvements in gut health and autism symptoms appear to persist long after treatment.
At two years post-treatment, most of the initial improvements in gut symptoms remained. In addition, parents reported a slow steady reduction of ASD symptoms during treatment and over the next two years. A professional evaluator found a 45% reduction in core ASD symptoms (language, social interaction and behavior) at two years post-treatment compared to before treatment began.
"We are finding a very strong connection between the microbes that live in our intestines and signals that travel to the brain," said Krajmalnik-Brown, a professor at the Biodesign Swette Center for Environmental Biotechnology at the Biodesign Institute and ASU's School for Sustainable Engineering and the Built Environment. "Two years later, the children are doing even better, which is amazing."
"Many kids with autism have gastrointestinal problems, and some studies, including ours, have found that those children also have worse autism-related symptoms," said Krajmalnik-Brown. "In many cases, when you are able to treat those gastrointestinal problems, their behavior improves."
Roughly 30-50% of all people with autism have chronic gastrointestinal (GI) problems, primarily constipation and/or diarrhea that can last for many years. That chronic discomfort and pain can cause irritability, decreased attention and learning, and negatively impact behavior.
An earlier study with only vancomycin (an antibiotic) had found major temporary improvements in GI and autism symptoms, but the benefits were lost a few weeks after treatment stopped despite use of over-the-counter probiotics.
So, the question at hand was what's going on in the gut, and how does it affect both physical and behavioral symptoms of autism, and how can we develop a long-lasting treatment?
Krajmalnik-Brown, Kang and Adams have shown that by transferring healthy microbiota to individuals lacking certain gut bacteria, it is possible to "donate" a more diverse set of bacteria into the patient and improve gut health.
In Australia, Fecal Microbiota Transplantation (FMT) was initially developed by Borody. At his Centre for Digestive Diseases in Sydney, Borody has overseen more than 18,000 FMTs for various disorders since 1987. He pioneered in Australia the use of FMT for colitis and Clostridium difficile infection, and was the first to use oral FMT to treat children with ASD. Only one dose of FMT is usually enough to cure C. Difficile infections, but his patients with autism were far harder to treat. He discovered that three months of daily FMT was required to treat his autism patients, but eventually resulted in significant improvements in both GI and autism symptoms.
Based on his experience with his patients, Borody led the design of the clinical treatment used at ASU for this study....."
CHILD’S RISK OF AUTISM CAN CHANGE BASED ON HEALTH OF MOTHER’S GUT
https://newsweek.com/autism-gut-health-signs-prevention-pregnancy-women-1031661
"New research suggests that the risk of developing autism is determined by the mother’s gut during pregnancy.
Scientists at the University of Virginia School of Medicine were able to analyze pregnant women’s microbiomes to determine the child’s risk of developing autism. The study, published July 2 in The Journal of Immunology, also researched how to use this finding to halt the development of autism-like neurodevelopmental disorders in mice.
“Our study was interested in understanding how the microbiome, which is the community of microbes that live within our gut, can shift susceptibility to autism-spectrum disorder,” John Lukens, assistant professor at the University of Virginia and lead author on the study, told Newsweek. To do this, the team studied, in part, interleukin-17a.
“It’s kind of the middleman between the gut and the brain,” Lukens says. Scientists at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology found that the inflammatory molecule interleukin-17a, or IL-17a, can influence the development of autism-like disorders in the brain. IL-17a has also been found to influence the development of multiple sclerosis and rheumatoid arthritis.
“What it can do during pregnancy is alter how the brain is developed and wired,” Lukens explains..... "
As someone who is autistic I'm going to call you out.
There are no such thing as autism "symptoms", because autism in NOT A DISEASE, it is a neurological condition, our brains are wired a little differently to a neurotypical and no 2 people with autism are the same or have the same issues with the nt world. We are not ill and no treatment is going to cure us. We do learn to a greater or lesser degree to fit a little better in to your world, but having someone else's cr@p stuck up my bum is not going to magically re-wire my brain and to be honest I wouldn't want it to.27
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