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Cancer Research UK Controversial Ads - Thoughts?

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  • mburgess458
    mburgess458 Posts: 480 Member
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    nooboots wrote: »
    The ads are not fat shaming at all.

    But fat shaming is destructive and harmful....

    Agree. I don't see how anyone can see those ads as fat shaming. There is nothing saying anything bad about obese people's looks, their self-control, their intelligence, their personality, etc. it is just giving a factual warning with no judgment. If it was something like a picture of a fat person eating a burger with the same warning I could see the fat shaming angle.

    Did anyone complain that the original smoking warnings were "smoker shaming"?
  • tinkerbellang83
    tinkerbellang83 Posts: 9,131 Member
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    mburgess458 wrote: »
    nooboots wrote: »
    The ads are not fat shaming at all.

    But fat shaming is destructive and harmful....

    Agree. I don't see how anyone can see those ads as fat shaming. There is nothing saying anything bad about obese people's looks, their self-control, their intelligence, their personality, etc. it is just giving a factual warning with no judgment. If it was something like a picture of a fat person eating a burger with the same warning I could see the fat shaming angle.

    Did anyone complain that the original smoking warnings were "smoker shaming"?

    Probably :lol:
  • lynn_glenmont
    lynn_glenmont Posts: 9,964 Member
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    Motorsheen wrote: »
    Phirrgus wrote: »
    Motorsheen wrote: »
    I wonder if one's reaction to fat shaming is somewhat gender biased?

    (relax, I'm just wondering out loud.....)

    Are women more prone to reacting to fat shaming with a negative (maybe even self-harming) response more than men?

    Dunno..... thoughts ??

    When I was in college, I had a housemate call me 'FatA##' every time he saw me for an entire week.
    and yeah, too much late night, beer & pizza had added a few extra pounds.

    This guy was a friend of mine ( he still is ) and in my opinion, was actually doing me a favor by calling me out about it. The result, I cleaned up my diet, hit the gym and dropped the weight.

    Would your response have been the same if he were not a friend? Or even someone you knew? Or a woman?

    Not arguing, just curious is all.


    @Phirrgus

    Good Question.

    Let's see...

    If it were a stranger, honestly, it would have bothered me even more because it probably would have been mean-spirited (why would a stranger be concerned about my fitness?) however the message would have still hit home.

    Had the message come from a woman, I probably would have gotten back into shape even quicker than what I did. If she's saying it, then others are probably thinking the same thing.

    also... I've heard guys talk to other guys the same way (they were always friends talking between one another).

    I'm thinking bullies fat-shame & I hate bullies however they present themselves.
    Everybody has their demons, some are just more visible than others.



    So are you saying (1) your friend was a bully and you hate him or (2) what he said and did wasn't really fat-shaming in the context of your friendship. If the latter, then that experience isn't really a basis for your earlier hypothesis that "one's reaction to fat shaming is somewhat gender biased."
  • Motorsheen
    Motorsheen Posts: 20,492 Member
    edited July 2019
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    lynn_glenmont wrote: »
    Motorsheen wrote: »
    Phirrgus wrote: »
    Motorsheen wrote: »
    I wonder if one's reaction to fat shaming is somewhat gender biased?

    (relax, I'm just wondering out loud.....)

    Are women more prone to reacting to fat shaming with a negative (maybe even self-harming) response more than men?

    Dunno..... thoughts ??

    When I was in college, I had a housemate call me 'FatA##' every time he saw me for an entire week.
    and yeah, too much late night, beer & pizza had added a few extra pounds.

    This guy was a friend of mine ( he still is ) and in my opinion, was actually doing me a favor by calling me out about it. The result, I cleaned up my diet, hit the gym and dropped the weight.

    Would your response have been the same if he were not a friend? Or even someone you knew? Or a woman?

    Not arguing, just curious is all.


    @Phirrgus

    Good Question.

    Let's see...

    If it were a stranger, honestly, it would have bothered me even more because it probably would have been mean-spirited (why would a stranger be concerned about my fitness?) however the message would have still hit home.

    Had the message come from a woman, I probably would have gotten back into shape even quicker than what I did. If she's saying it, then others are probably thinking the same thing.

    also... I've heard guys talk to other guys the same way (they were always friends talking between one another).

    I'm thinking bullies fat-shame & I hate bullies however they present themselves.
    Everybody has their demons, some are just more visible than others.



    So are you saying (1) your friend was a bully and you hate him or (2) what he said and did wasn't really fat-shaming in the context of your friendship. If the latter, then that experience isn't really a basis for your earlier hypothesis that "one's reaction to fat shaming is somewhat gender biased."


    The point that you made is a good one.
    Was he a bully? I suppose it's how you look at it; some would say 'yes', but I didn't take it that way.
    Did I hate him? No, not even close.


    That being said, college age guys (at least my friends) wouldn't sit down and say:

    "You know, we noticed that maybe you have put on a couple of pounds and we are concerned about your health and well-being and as your friends, we certainly aren't judging you, we just think that you would be in a 'better place' if you concentrated on your health & welfare during your journey to fitness & good health."

    Instead, they would say: "Hey FatA$$." (which he did.)

    Did it hurt my feeling? Nope. I heard it more as a call to action.
    (and also as a challenge to get lean and try to steal his girlfriend. As it went, I did lean out, however he kept the girlfriend. )


    I suppose, the question on gender bias is more about the reaction to fat-shaming.... and that question came about from reading both the female and male responses on this thread.

    So maybe the question is more about gender-biased reactions to perceived fat-shaming.
    Do the genders, typically, react differently to the same interaction ? ...or the same?

    Again.... Dunno.

    I also stand by the statement that I Hate ( capital 'H' in Hate ) bullies; I always have and I always will.
  • Motorsheen
    Motorsheen Posts: 20,492 Member
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    lynn_glenmont wrote: »
    joelacy11 wrote: »
    estherdragonbat wrote: »
    No, actually, fat shaming is extremely likely to do more harm than good.

    Many people eat as a (poor!) coping strategy during times of stress and other emotions.

    “I feel miserable, so I’m going to eat some comfort food.”

    “I have so much going on in my life I can’t manage. But at least there’s comfort food.”

    “Things are going great! Time to celebrate… with some comfort food.”

    “I thought my weight loss was going well. I even got into that dress I couldn’t fit three months ago. And then, someone saw me jogging and called out, ‘Hey fatty! The ice cream truck went that-a-way! Hee-hee!’ and it all just seemed so pointless. It’ll take forever before people notice I’m losing or don’t see me as fat. And meanwhile, I’ve got to put up with those jerks. Well, if nobody notices that I’m trying to change, then what’s the use? Which way was that ice cream truck again? I need comfort food.”

    https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/fat-shaming-makes-things-worse
    https://www.advisory.com/daily-briefing/2018/09/26/obesity
    https://www.psychologytoday.com/ca/blog/wiring-the-mind/201501/whats-wrong-fat-shaming
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2014/09/11/fat-shaming-doesnt-work-a-new-study-says/?utm_term=.ed95dd725a91
    https://www.everydayhealth.com/news/fat-shaming-does-not-motivate-obese-people-to-lose-weight/


    You seem to have the wrong mentality, I train and track nutrition for myself - I couldn't care less what other people think. If someones says - you look too skinny, or you look a little plump you know what I say? Nothing. I just keep on with my goal.

    You do you, let them do them. Everyone has set backs with food, its about recognizing you have had a 'binge' and being accountable to yourself to stop the binge continuing.

    Learn to focus on you :)

    I had a trainer in the past who said to ' you arent a dog, so why are you rewarding yourself with food' The phrase stuck with me.

    If you couldn't care less what other people think, why would you think fat-shaming would be an effective strategy? Attempts to shame people would have no effect on people who don't care what other people think.

    But you did care what the trainer said. There are some big logic and consistency gaps in your arguments.

    I re-read the post in question & it didn't sound like the trainer was fat-shaming (not in the least).
    Instead, the trainer was offering advice if the form of a quip; there's a big difference, right?

    Nor did I read (from the one post above) that he thought fat-shaming was an effective strategy; I'm not sure where that idea came from either.

    (unless I missed a previous post somewhere earlier in the thread & unless the interpretation was that fat-shaming, from any source, could be used as motivation.... I missed that too.)

    Also, there is (hopefully) some accountability between the client and the trainer. I would hope a trainer would educate and train their clientele, rather than ridicule. There's no accountability to some smart-aleck stranger, there would be with a trainer.

    That being said, I'm okay with a trainer, a football coach or a D.I. in my face, talking smack, looking to motivate me; that's their job. *shrug

    Like all aspects of life, it's not if, or when, something happens to you (i.e. fat-shaming), it's how you react to any given situation. You can't control the action, however you can control your reaction.

    ... and there's a number of different ways to react too, right?
  • ceiswyn
    ceiswyn Posts: 2,256 Member
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    I'm still curious as to whether you think tough talking or banter from friends is in any way similar to being shouted at or discriminated against by strangers in public areas.
  • tinkerbellang83
    tinkerbellang83 Posts: 9,131 Member
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    Motorsheen wrote: »
    lynn_glenmont wrote: »
    joelacy11 wrote: »
    estherdragonbat wrote: »
    No, actually, fat shaming is extremely likely to do more harm than good.

    Many people eat as a (poor!) coping strategy during times of stress and other emotions.

    “I feel miserable, so I’m going to eat some comfort food.”

    “I have so much going on in my life I can’t manage. But at least there’s comfort food.”

    “Things are going great! Time to celebrate… with some comfort food.”

    “I thought my weight loss was going well. I even got into that dress I couldn’t fit three months ago. And then, someone saw me jogging and called out, ‘Hey fatty! The ice cream truck went that-a-way! Hee-hee!’ and it all just seemed so pointless. It’ll take forever before people notice I’m losing or don’t see me as fat. And meanwhile, I’ve got to put up with those jerks. Well, if nobody notices that I’m trying to change, then what’s the use? Which way was that ice cream truck again? I need comfort food.”

    https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/fat-shaming-makes-things-worse
    https://www.advisory.com/daily-briefing/2018/09/26/obesity
    https://www.psychologytoday.com/ca/blog/wiring-the-mind/201501/whats-wrong-fat-shaming
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2014/09/11/fat-shaming-doesnt-work-a-new-study-says/?utm_term=.ed95dd725a91
    https://www.everydayhealth.com/news/fat-shaming-does-not-motivate-obese-people-to-lose-weight/


    You seem to have the wrong mentality, I train and track nutrition for myself - I couldn't care less what other people think. If someones says - you look too skinny, or you look a little plump you know what I say? Nothing. I just keep on with my goal.

    You do you, let them do them. Everyone has set backs with food, its about recognizing you have had a 'binge' and being accountable to yourself to stop the binge continuing.

    Learn to focus on you :)

    I had a trainer in the past who said to ' you arent a dog, so why are you rewarding yourself with food' The phrase stuck with me.

    If you couldn't care less what other people think, why would you think fat-shaming would be an effective strategy? Attempts to shame people would have no effect on people who don't care what other people think.

    But you did care what the trainer said. There are some big logic and consistency gaps in your arguments.

    I re-read the post in question & it didn't sound like the trainer was fat-shaming (not in the least).
    Instead, the trainer was offering advice if the form of a quip; there's a big difference, right?

    Nor did I read (from the one post above) that he thought fat-shaming was an effective strategy; I'm not sure where that idea came from either.

    (unless I missed a previous post somewhere earlier in the thread & unless the interpretation was that fat-shaming, from any source, could be used as motivation.... I missed that too.)

    Also, there is (hopefully) some accountability between the client and the trainer. I would hope a trainer would educate and train their clientele, rather than ridicule. There's no accountability to some smart-aleck stranger, there would be with a trainer.

    That being said, I'm okay with a trainer, a football coach or a D.I. in my face, talking smack, looking to motivate me; that's their job. *shrug

    Like all aspects of life, it's not if, or when, something happens to you (i.e. fat-shaming), it's how you react to any given situation. You can't control the action, however you can control your reaction.

    ... and there's a number of different ways to react too, right?

    The poster clearly said they thought fat shaming was needed in a previous post.

    And also stated that they didn't care what other people think, by that logic, why would you care what the trainer said and why would you think if everyone else shouldn't care what people say, that making an issue of someone's weight out of (usually faux) "concern" would make a difference?
  • lynn_glenmont
    lynn_glenmont Posts: 9,964 Member
    Options
    Motorsheen wrote: »
    lynn_glenmont wrote: »
    joelacy11 wrote: »
    estherdragonbat wrote: »
    No, actually, fat shaming is extremely likely to do more harm than good.

    Many people eat as a (poor!) coping strategy during times of stress and other emotions.

    “I feel miserable, so I’m going to eat some comfort food.”

    “I have so much going on in my life I can’t manage. But at least there’s comfort food.”

    “Things are going great! Time to celebrate… with some comfort food.”

    “I thought my weight loss was going well. I even got into that dress I couldn’t fit three months ago. And then, someone saw me jogging and called out, ‘Hey fatty! The ice cream truck went that-a-way! Hee-hee!’ and it all just seemed so pointless. It’ll take forever before people notice I’m losing or don’t see me as fat. And meanwhile, I’ve got to put up with those jerks. Well, if nobody notices that I’m trying to change, then what’s the use? Which way was that ice cream truck again? I need comfort food.”

    https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/fat-shaming-makes-things-worse
    https://www.advisory.com/daily-briefing/2018/09/26/obesity
    https://www.psychologytoday.com/ca/blog/wiring-the-mind/201501/whats-wrong-fat-shaming
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2014/09/11/fat-shaming-doesnt-work-a-new-study-says/?utm_term=.ed95dd725a91
    https://www.everydayhealth.com/news/fat-shaming-does-not-motivate-obese-people-to-lose-weight/


    You seem to have the wrong mentality, I train and track nutrition for myself - I couldn't care less what other people think. If someones says - you look too skinny, or you look a little plump you know what I say? Nothing. I just keep on with my goal.

    You do you, let them do them. Everyone has set backs with food, its about recognizing you have had a 'binge' and being accountable to yourself to stop the binge continuing.

    Learn to focus on you :)

    I had a trainer in the past who said to ' you arent a dog, so why are you rewarding yourself with food' The phrase stuck with me.

    If you couldn't care less what other people think, why would you think fat-shaming would be an effective strategy? Attempts to shame people would have no effect on people who don't care what other people think.

    But you did care what the trainer said. There are some big logic and consistency gaps in your arguments.

    I re-read the post in question & it didn't sound like the trainer was fat-shaming (not in the least).
    Instead, the trainer was offering advice if the form of a quip; there's a big difference, right?

    That's not at all the point I was making. The person I was responding to in the post you reference (not you) said they couldn't care less what other people think, then demonstrated that they did care what the trainer thought (in a remark that suggested the poster was behaving like a dog, so I'm not sure anyway how that is so very different from a shaming remark).
    Nor did I read (from the one post above) that he thought fat-shaming was an effective strategy; I'm not sure where that idea came from either.

    (unless I missed a previous post somewhere earlier in the thread & unless the interpretation was that fat-shaming, from any source, could be used as motivation.... I missed that too.)

    The poster has at length stated that fat-shaming should occur and that it would somehow inspire people to lose weight.
    Also, there is (hopefully) some accountability between the client and the trainer. I would hope a trainer would educate and train their clientele, rather than ridicule. There's no accountability to some smart-aleck stranger, there would be with a trainer.

    Again, not the point of what I was saying, which was about the lack of consistency in the other poster's posts.
    That being said, I'm okay with a trainer, a football coach or a D.I. in my face, talking smack, looking to motivate me; that's their job. *shrug

    Like all aspects of life, it's not if, or when, something happens to you (i.e. fat-shaming), it's how you react to any given situation. You can't control the action, however you can control your reaction.

    ... and there's a number of different ways to react too, right?

    Not the point.

  • Phirrgus
    Phirrgus Posts: 1,894 Member
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    So while a cancer research group in the UK is being accused of fat shaming, Philadelphia is launching an educational initiative.
    Different message presented in an entirely different way, but targeting the same issue of obesity.
    https://www.inquirer.com/health/sugar-snacks-philadelphia-health-department-farley-child-obesity-diabetes-soda-tax-20190717.html

    It will be interesting to see how responses to this compare to the OPs ad campaign.

    Philadelphia Health Commissioner Thomas A. Farley announced a new public education campaign Wednesday aimed at alerting residents to the dangers of children eating sugary snacks and encouraging them to seek healthier alternatives.
    “Here in Philadelphia, 22 percent of our children have obesity,” said Farley in a City Hall news conference. Childhood obesity can lead to serious adult health problems like diabetes, the commissioner said.
    One in eight Philadelphians have diabetes, he said, including one in six African American residents and one in five Hispanic Philadelphians.

    The campaign includes television, social media and billboard public service announcements and educational spots. Information is also available on FoodFitPhilly.org.

    Unlike the city’s controversial sweetened beverage tax, this new effort to help get Philadelphians to adopt healthier habits is aimed at residents’ hearts, minds and waistlines, not their wallets.
  • deannalfisher
    deannalfisher Posts: 5,600 Member
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    its interesting - i'm listening to the audiobook of Cancer: Emperor of All Maladies right now and there are several chapters dedicated to the anti-smoking campaigns and how tabacco companies found it; court cases against these companies for not disclosing risk (when it was known etc). Have to wonder if similar will be said in a few decades on this campaign
  • CSARdiver
    CSARdiver Posts: 6,252 Member
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    Fuzzipeg wrote: »
    Many cancers are hormone related in that disrupted hormone levels contribute to cancers, for instance, endometrial cancer presents with high oestrogen levels, in the initial stages if the symptoms are recognised for what they are, when progesterone is administered the hormone balance is restored and the pre-cancerous stop their proliferation. Making a great saving on the NHS budget or the Insurance scheme of your choice. Also this can be under pinned by a poorly functioning endocrine system, which can cause diminished growth hormone, low t3 which is responsible for among other things cell replication - too little problems cells are not eliminated as they should be. Cancer is a multifaceted problem. If someone has the knowledge of what a healthy diet should contain in the way of micro nutrients to ensure a well functioning endocrine system. Excess weight is often an unfortunate consequence of poor endocrine function.

    An article in last Fridays New Scientist says forget everything we know about nutrition because there is inadequate science to back it all up. There are as many clams for low fat, low carb even keto when it comes to reversing diabetes. Scientific trials often fudge the outcome for the organisation which is sponsoring the work. Identifying compounders at the outset, defining the research parameters from the outset would make the science stand up. They do say eat as well as you can in moderation.

    Excess weight is always a precursor to poor endocrine function.
  • RachelElser
    RachelElser Posts: 1,049 Member
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    Its not fat shaming, its literally a fact. Being overweight or obese leads to a higher chance of cancer, particularly breast cancer in women. Roswell Park told my mom that.
  • Fuzzipeg
    Fuzzipeg Posts: 2,298 Member
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    CSA, I appreciate you are the scientist in this. Excess weight can be a precursor to poor endocrine function but as someone who was endocrine symptomatic by the age of 12, while at a very good weight for a 12 year old, still so into my 30's. I am of the opinion there is something "other than", simply weight which causes hormone/endocrine disruption, endocrine disruption can come first, glands can be less effective.

    Not being listened to by Medics, having your symptoms dismissed, is way up there in my opinion for not preventing poor outcomes. This could be a chicken and an egg problem, which comes first, weight gain or the underlying endocrine problem, the body is way more complicated than the view modern western medicine takes which is why I have come to favour the Functional Approach. Using the same tests but looking for the underlying dietary reasons for problems. Looking for why the body is not performing this or that activity or even doing it too much, not simply providing a Big Pharma Solution, which covers up the initial issue till it breaks out in another direction.

    There are screeds of information on the benefits of the microbiome, the inoculation of newborns at birth agianst those born by c section. There is even a realisation that the microbiome of the mother is not necesarily all it could be for many, social, environmental, dietary and side effects of historic medical interventions causing problems for the mother as well as the child in the future. The balance of microbes is paramount, dominance of some cause weight gain, dominance of others sustain a beneficial weight range, while some increase histamine others facilitate the absorption of vitamins.

    People who watch every calorie they take in and still do not loose weight are the ones who are vilified because they must be eating more than they need, any calorie is the same as another, I'm sure you are aware there is scientific evidence that this is not so.

    You and I will never agree on things thyroid/endocrine your experience was totally different to mine. Mine is lymphatic thyroiditis otherwise Hashimoto's which is totally different again to dietary deficiency hypothyroid, come to that, to those with a genetic inability or reduction in conversion capacity t4 to t3 should be excluded. All conditions need different treatments though some may over lapping treatments, particularly when the thyroid tissue is destroyed by surgical intervention or autoimmune destruction by molecule mimicry. Key to autoimmunity is the balance of the gut microbes and the integrity of the linings of the digestive tract.
  • happyraccoon844
    happyraccoon844 Posts: 2 Member
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    I have been fighting breast cancer for seven years now. I am on two neoplastics (chemo agents) that block my pituitary gland and purposely disrupt my endocrine system. I have 5+ years to go on these drugs. Naturally I’m fighting weight gain with all my might. Due to good nutrition and and exercise, I am no longer obese. My metabolism and immune system are fragile, to say the least. I mention these things on this thread for two reasons: 1) people who expressed hope and confidence in me and my body made all the difference. 2) people who misjudged my effort and my challenges had to be eliminated from my attention. 3) sharing anecdotes with people grappling with this endocrine work is extremely helpful. 4) how can I find such people in this community? Thank you for reading.
  • happyraccoon844
    happyraccoon844 Posts: 2 Member
    Options
    I have been fighting breast cancer for seven years now. I am on two neoplastics (chemo agents) that block my pituitary gland and purposely disrupt my endocrine system. I have 5+ years to go on these drugs. Naturally I’m fighting weight gain with all my might. Due to good nutrition and and exercise, I am no longer obese. My metabolism and immune system are fragile, to say the least. I mention these things on this thread for two reasons: 1) people who expressed hope and confidence in me and my body made all the difference. 2) people who misjudged my effort and my challenges had to be eliminated from my attention. 3) sharing anecdotes with people grappling with this endocrine work is extremely helpful. 4) how can I find such people in this community? Thank you for reading.
  • CSARdiver
    CSARdiver Posts: 6,252 Member
    Options
    Fuzzipeg wrote: »
    CSA, I appreciate you are the scientist in this. Excess weight can be a precursor to poor endocrine function but as someone who was endocrine symptomatic by the age of 12, while at a very good weight for a 12 year old, still so into my 30's. I am of the opinion there is something "other than", simply weight which causes hormone/endocrine disruption, endocrine disruption can come first, glands can be less effective.

    Not being listened to by Medics, having your symptoms dismissed, is way up there in my opinion for not preventing poor outcomes. This could be a chicken and an egg problem, which comes first, weight gain or the underlying endocrine problem, the body is way more complicated than the view modern western medicine takes which is why I have come to favour the Functional Approach. Using the same tests but looking for the underlying dietary reasons for problems. Looking for why the body is not performing this or that activity or even doing it too much, not simply providing a Big Pharma Solution, which covers up the initial issue till it breaks out in another direction.

    There are screeds of information on the benefits of the microbiome, the inoculation of newborns at birth agianst those born by c section. There is even a realisation that the microbiome of the mother is not necesarily all it could be for many, social, environmental, dietary and side effects of historic medical interventions causing problems for the mother as well as the child in the future. The balance of microbes is paramount, dominance of some cause weight gain, dominance of others sustain a beneficial weight range, while some increase histamine others facilitate the absorption of vitamins.

    People who watch every calorie they take in and still do not loose weight are the ones who are vilified because they must be eating more than they need, any calorie is the same as another, I'm sure you are aware there is scientific evidence that this is not so.

    You and I will never agree on things thyroid/endocrine your experience was totally different to mine. Mine is lymphatic thyroiditis otherwise Hashimoto's which is totally different again to dietary deficiency hypothyroid, come to that, to those with a genetic inability or reduction in conversion capacity t4 to t3 should be excluded. All conditions need different treatments though some may over lapping treatments, particularly when the thyroid tissue is destroyed by surgical intervention or autoimmune destruction by molecule mimicry. Key to autoimmunity is the balance of the gut microbes and the integrity of the linings of the digestive tract.

    There's nothing to agree on as the experience and reaction is entirely subjective. It amounts to debating over whether a restaurant is good or not. Debating over objective evidence is productive.

    We only have control over a certain number of variables in a situation like this. As such a proven strategy for success is to exhibit control over those we do have influence over - such as caloric intake.

    We have extremely limited control over microbiome and even if we did we don't know the perfect syntrophy of bacterial strains for optimal health. Other than eating a wide variety of food and act as an omnivore there isn't much actionable from this.

    We have limited control over the medical profession. The US has the ability to fire one and find a new one to a certain degree, but still limited by exceedingly small supply. Even this will likely go away in a decade or two. All other systems you're unfortunately stuck with whatever the government decides to provide.

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