Somebody help me wrap my head around this.
Replies
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Yes/ But from photo reference 8-9% is enough to look good.2
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ExistingFish wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »ExistingFish wrote: »My guess is eating in private. Also I found a lot of peace of mind in my life when i let other people worry about their own diets and focus on my own ❤
Life would be so much easier if I were single and only worried about my own health, happiness, and wellbeing, would it?
I let him handle it 100% on his own for months and months until he came to me about it. He's my husband, it would not make me happier if I told him to handle it himself when he came to me for help.
“Hey hubby, the MFP forums have a lot of great info on them you could read the stickied posts or start a thread providing info about your situation and the community members would be happy to try to help you I’m sure”
You haven’t liked any of the responses you’ve gotten here maybe it’s time to either let him take it from here if he’s still frustrated and confused or just keep going at it on your own.
Woah, I've liked tons of posts. I don't like every single thing I see because some of them downright ignore things I've posted or maybe I just missed some. But honestly, to come on here and say "You haven't liked any responses" is just ignorant.
I think you are misunderstanding, I just asked for advice or ideas, not someone to solve our problems. I'm not looking for an end-all solution, just some suggestions that might help the mental game or things we can do to improve his outcome.
I've come back and replied to many posts, I've expressed the conclusions we've come to in discussion, I've stated what the plan is going forward, it's not like I'm still confused or still asking. If that isn't enough involvement for you, if you'd rather I go back and like every single post arbitrarily, then I can do that I guess.
I have a life, I work full time and I've got 3 little kids. We're getting ready for back to school, we're building a house, we go to the gym 3x a week. He is going to continue what he's doing, I've offered him many people's perspectives on his weight loss speed and outcomes, and we are giving it much more time.
He isn't an internet forum guy, he has never been on a forum the entire time we've been together. I am on baby forums, parenting forums, lifting forums, and MFP forums, just to name a few. This is my game, it isn't his.
I get you. I think you're doing fine. I wouldn't just drop my OH into a forum and expect him to swim either. The waters can be rough.6 -
2% BF% Actually, is BFP was measured using a caliper.
But either through simple misunderstanding, a typo, or perhaps just incorrect recollection you keep referring to a 2% body fat figure which you keep associating with a 195lb man.
So you can perhaps understand why making and supporting such a claim detracts from your points.
It was a typo but I never made a correction because I wasn't 100% sure what his number actually was and I don't really care (I only care that he is happy and healthy enough to hang out with me). Plus, it was immaterial to my point.
I do remember he had one of the lowest BFPs on his team and that a few of the guys were around 5-7% so 5% was stuck in my mind.
I only responded to the 11% guy because he implied that my BF would be bigger and not smaller with a low BFP. I probably could have corrected the typo then, but I still didn't have the precise data and regardless of the true number, it was smaller than 11% so I didn't see the need in order to make my point.
I'm rather surprised by the number of people who fixate on an irrelevant statement and ignore the important parts. I don't know anyone irl who does that...17 -
2% BF% Actually, is BFP was measured using a caliper.
But either through simple misunderstanding, a typo, or perhaps just incorrect recollection you keep referring to a 2% body fat figure which you keep associating with a 195lb man.
So you can perhaps understand why making and supporting such a claim detracts from your points.
It was a typo but I never made a correction because I wasn't 100% sure what his number actually was and I don't really care (I only care that he is happy and healthy enough to hang out with me). Plus, it was immaterial to my point.
I do remember he had one of the lowest BFPs on his team and that a few of the guys were around 5-7% so 5% was stuck in my mind.
I only responded to the 11% guy because he implied that my BF would be bigger and not smaller with a low BFP. I probably could have corrected the typo then, but I still didn't have the precise data and regardless of the true number, it was smaller than 11% so I didn't see the need in order to make my point.
I'm rather surprised by the number of people who fixate on an irrelevant statement and ignore the important parts. I don't know anyone irl who does that...
IRL with a group of friends that knew you they'd just move on after expressing surprise if at all familiar with the topic, others ignorant of the subject might just take it at face value.
If talking with a group of strangers and you said something they knew to be totally unlikely - they'd likely either express surprise or just be quiet and figure they can't trust much of anything else you are saying.
Since there is no history to support much trust - it's totally built up by the few responses back and forth.11 -
2% BF% Actually, is BFP was measured using a caliper.
But either through simple misunderstanding, a typo, or perhaps just incorrect recollection you keep referring to a 2% body fat figure which you keep associating with a 195lb man.
So you can perhaps understand why making and supporting such a claim detracts from your points.
It was a typo but I never made a correction because I wasn't 100% sure what his number actually was and I don't really care (I only care that he is happy and healthy enough to hang out with me). Plus, it was immaterial to my point.
I do remember he had one of the lowest BFPs on his team and that a few of the guys were around 5-7% so 5% was stuck in my mind.
I only responded to the 11% guy because he implied that my BF would be bigger and not smaller with a low BFP. I probably could have corrected the typo then, but I still didn't have the precise data and regardless of the true number, it was smaller than 11% so I didn't see the need in order to make my point.
I'm rather surprised by the number of people who fixate on an irrelevant statement and ignore the important parts. I don't know anyone irl who does that...
IRL with a group of friends that knew you they'd just move on after expressing surprise if at all familiar with the topic, others ignorant of the subject might just take it at face value.
If talking with a group of strangers and you said something they knew to be totally unlikely - they'd likely either express surprise or just be quiet and figure they can't trust much of anything else you are saying.
Since there is no history to support much trust - it's totally built up by the few responses back and forth.
That's not how it's done in my personal and professional circles. If there is an issue with a side topic, people may raise an eyebrow or even mention the issue, but quickly go back to the main topic.
My grandfather used to say "don't leave your dollars [behind] because you're counting the pennies"which was his way of saying "don't miss the big picture because you're studying the sketch lines." I learned that lesson very early in life so I don't understand how people can attach themselves to trivial matters without considering the primary issue.10 -
I just wanted to follow up on this. DH has decided his goals of lifting heavy weights and losing weight are just not compatible, so he decided to focus on weight loss first. He has taken his goal down to 1800 and switched from heavy weight lifting to focus on mobility, bodyweight training, and cardio. He's finally starting to see the scale moving again, and he isn't feeling overworked all the time.
Between my last post here, his weight trend reversed and turned red and now this week it is finally green again, so it seems to be working.
We are also both focusing on improving our sleep quality and overall diet makeup. His mood and motivation are improved.
He also just got his first pull-up in the past week
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ExistingFish wrote: »I just wanted to follow up on this. DH has decided his goals of lifting heavy weights and losing weight are just not compatible, so he decided to focus on weight loss first. He has taken his goal down to 1800 and switched from heavy weight lifting to focus on mobility, bodyweight training, and cardio. He's finally starting to see the scale moving again, and he isn't feeling overworked all the time.
Between my last post here, his weight trend reversed and turned red and now this week it is finally green again, so it seems to be working.
We are also both focusing on improving our sleep quality and overall diet makeup. His mood and motivation are improved.
He also just got his first pull-up in the past week
Glad things are moving in the desired direction and congrats to him on the pull-up.
Not to try to fix something that isn't broken, but might it be possible for him to keep lifting with reduce volume and/or intensity in an effort to preserve the muscle he has than swing all the way to bodyweight and cardio?2 -
ExistingFish wrote: »I just wanted to follow up on this. DH has decided his goals of lifting heavy weights and losing weight are just not compatible, so he decided to focus on weight loss first. He has taken his goal down to 1800 and switched from heavy weight lifting to focus on mobility, bodyweight training, and cardio. He's finally starting to see the scale moving again, and he isn't feeling overworked all the time.
Between my last post here, his weight trend reversed and turned red and now this week it is finally green again, so it seems to be working.
We are also both focusing on improving our sleep quality and overall diet makeup. His mood and motivation are improved.
He also just got his first pull-up in the past week
Glad things are moving in the desired direction and congrats to him on the pull-up.
Not to try to fix something that isn't broken, but might it be possible for him to keep lifting with reduce volume and/or intensity in an effort to preserve the muscle he has than swing all the way to bodyweight and cardio?
The bodyweight program he is running not light, it's a full-body conditioning program. It just limits the weight-based resistance to bodyweight. He isn't doing a lot of heavy cardio, the program he is on is pretty fast-paced and keeps his heart rate up. He's doing the Bodyweight Warrior program from Tom Merrick, with the mobility add on.
I'm not sure personally I'd go all the way to bodyweight/cardio, but it seems to be working well for him.
From someone who lifts weights, I thought "bodyweight" was light. I ran the program alongside him for two weeks as a deload for me, it was NOT light. I did the intermediate program (he's doing the beginner), but it is not easy or light, the workouts took a long time, low rest periods, and challenging exercises.2 -
I think the simplest answer is the most likely; he's eating more than you think.9
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scarlett_k wrote: »I think the simplest answer is the most likely; he's eating more than you think.
Sure. He's buying secret groceries that come out of his secret bank account which he buys when he's out of the house that I don't know about. He throws the trash away from his secret food in a secret trash can that he secretly takes out when I'm not looking.
Or I'm dumb, blind, and stupid.11 -
I'll recap, he lowered his calorie goal further AND reduced carbs to Atkins40 level (not full keto level). This really involved a few simple swaps, switching his breakfast bowl which had hash browns for one without and his regular tortillas for carb balance tortillas. This easily took his calorie intake down without changing much. Just dropping the hash browns took his breakfast down 200 calories, which made up most of his change.
He dealt with the fewer calories by reducing the intensity of his exercise regimen, although he still exercises the same number of days for the same length of time or longer.
So all in all, 2100 calories was maintenance for him, because he switched to 1800 and has started losing about 0.5lbs/week. No secret eating. Just needed to lower his calories.4 -
ExistingFish wrote: »scarlett_k wrote: »I think the simplest answer is the most likely; he's eating more than you think.
Sure. He's buying secret groceries that come out of his secret bank account which he buys when he's out of the house that I don't know about. He throws the trash away from his secret food in a secret trash can that he secretly takes out when I'm not looking.
Or I'm dumb, blind, and stupid.
Or he is eating at his parents house which you yourself said was a trigger place for him. There is no way you can be 100% certain of his caloric intake. As stated earlier in the post, you don't seem to want to accept most of the good advice or explanations you have been given though so its kind of pointless to continue.12 -
ExistingFish wrote: »scarlett_k wrote: »I think the simplest answer is the most likely; he's eating more than you think.
Sure. He's buying secret groceries that come out of his secret bank account which he buys when he's out of the house that I don't know about. He throws the trash away from his secret food in a secret trash can that he secretly takes out when I'm not looking.
Or I'm dumb, blind, and stupid.
Or he is eating at his parents house which you yourself said was a trigger place for him. There is no way you can be 100% certain of his caloric intake. As stated earlier in the post, you don't seem to want to accept most of the good advice or explanations you have been given though so its kind of pointless to continue.
Kind of seems to me the problem has been solved.. He's reduced his calories and the weightlifting, and is begining to see results again. Secret eating seems improbable in this case, especially since it appears he's willing to put in the work and problem solving to get the scale going. (albeit via his wife on forums).4 -
ExistingFish wrote: »scarlett_k wrote: »I think the simplest answer is the most likely; he's eating more than you think.
Sure. He's buying secret groceries that come out of his secret bank account which he buys when he's out of the house that I don't know about. He throws the trash away from his secret food in a secret trash can that he secretly takes out when I'm not looking.
Or I'm dumb, blind, and stupid.
Or he is eating at his parents house which you yourself said was a trigger place for him. There is no way you can be 100% certain of his caloric intake. As stated earlier in the post, you don't seem to want to accept most of the good advice or explanations you have been given though so its kind of pointless to continue.
Considering he hasn't been to his parents' house but one day since I made the original post, it's unlikely he ate enough food (which he didn't, all carbs, he took his own low carb snacks) to impact his weight loss over several weeks.
I have no idea what you are talking about. He lowered his calorie intake, which was one of the general consensuses on this thread {that he was eating at maintenance for him}, which is accepting the good advice on this thread.
The fact that random strangers on the internet thing he's either lying {intentionally or not} to either me or himself or that he is being intentionally dishonest and buying/procuring secret snacks {which is almost impossible, given our work/daily life situation} doesn't mean it is true. Which it's not. Of course, I'm going to ignore those posts. How would I "take" that advice? Accuse my spouse of lying and tell him his struggles to lose weight must be because he's LYING to himself? How is that advice helpful? I have of course encouraged him to use the scale for EVERYTHING, remember to log all the time, but I'm not going to tell him he's struggling because he's dishonest. That wouldn't be good for him, for our marriage, for anything.10 -
ExistingFish wrote: »ExistingFish wrote: »scarlett_k wrote: »I think the simplest answer is the most likely; he's eating more than you think.
Sure. He's buying secret groceries that come out of his secret bank account which he buys when he's out of the house that I don't know about. He throws the trash away from his secret food in a secret trash can that he secretly takes out when I'm not looking.
Or I'm dumb, blind, and stupid.
Or he is eating at his parents house which you yourself said was a trigger place for him. There is no way you can be 100% certain of his caloric intake. As stated earlier in the post, you don't seem to want to accept most of the good advice or explanations you have been given though so its kind of pointless to continue.
Considering he hasn't been to his parents' house but one day since I made the original post, it's unlikely he ate enough food (which he didn't, all carbs, he took his own low carb snacks) to impact his weight loss over several weeks.
I have no idea what you are talking about. He lowered his calorie intake, which was one of the general consensuses on this thread {that he was eating at maintenance for him}, which is accepting the good advice on this thread.
The fact that random strangers on the internet thing he's either lying {intentionally or not} to either me or himself or that he is being intentionally dishonest and buying/procuring secret snacks {which is almost impossible, given our work/daily life situation} doesn't mean it is true. Which it's not. Of course, I'm going to ignore those posts. How would I "take" that advice? Accuse my spouse of lying and tell him his struggles to lose weight must be because he's LYING to himself? How is that advice helpful? I have of course encouraged him to use the scale for EVERYTHING, remember to log all the time, but I'm not going to tell him he's struggling because he's dishonest. That wouldn't be good for him, for our marriage, for anything.
I read through this whole thread and the general consensus definitely was NOT to lower his caloric intake. You even stated in the original post that he found 1800 calories unsustainable so it makes zero sense to do that. At his stats I find it very hard to believe that maintenance is 2100 calories especially since you pointed out that is what your maintenance is and you are much smaller. I am 6'2 195 and I could easily cut weight at 2100 calories. I am not losing weight though, wanna know why? I am not consuming just 2100 calories and I seriously doubt your husband was either. You talk about all the work that he puts in weighing and measuring and working out, yet you are the one on here asking questions and not him. It seems like you are far more concerned about it than he is which would be a good reason for him not to tell you about every single thing he eats.9 -
ExistingFish wrote: »I'll recap, he lowered his calorie goal further AND reduced carbs to Atkins40 level (not full keto level). This really involved a few simple swaps, switching his breakfast bowl which had hash browns for one without and his regular tortillas for carb balance tortillas. This easily took his calorie intake down without changing much. Just dropping the hash browns took his breakfast down 200 calories, which made up most of his change.
He dealt with the fewer calories by reducing the intensity of his exercise regimen, although he still exercises the same number of days for the same length of time or longer.
So all in all, 2100 calories was maintenance for him, because he switched to 1800 and has started losing about 0.5lbs/week. No secret eating. Just needed to lower his calories.
Maintenance of 2100 calories for a 5'10" male weighing 195lbs who trains 3x per week does not sound right...
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So happy to hear it is improving for your hubby. Sometimes people on the boards forget that we are all individuals and that not everyone can eat at the same level. I'm glad he's improving and that he's seeing progress in his strength training as well. Kudos to you too for being supportive!3
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cheryldumais wrote: »So happy to hear it is improving for your hubby. Sometimes people on the boards forget that we are all individuals and that not everyone can eat at the same level. I'm glad he's improving and that he's seeing progress in his strength training as well. Kudos to you too for being supportive!
true but maintenance of 2100 calories for a 5'10" male weighing 195lbs who trains 3x per week does not sound right...9 -
cheryldumais wrote: »So happy to hear it is improving for your hubby. Sometimes people on the boards forget that we are all individuals and that not everyone can eat at the same level. I'm glad he's improving and that he's seeing progress in his strength training as well. Kudos to you too for being supportive!
true but maintenance of 2100 calories for a 5'10" male weighing 195lbs who trains 3x per week does not sound right...
And who regularly was averaging between 8-15000 steps daily. His BMR alone would probably be near 1800. His exercise burns may not have been completely accurate, but he should have definitely been losing at 2100. I realize all people are different, but that doesn't mean I am going to blindly accept things as fact when they clearly don't add up.7 -
cheryldumais wrote: »So happy to hear it is improving for your hubby. Sometimes people on the boards forget that we are all individuals and that not everyone can eat at the same level. I'm glad he's improving and that he's seeing progress in his strength training as well. Kudos to you too for being supportive!
true but maintenance of 2100 calories for a 5'10" male weighing 195lbs who trains 3x per week does not sound right...
And who regularly was averaging between 8-15000 steps daily. His BMR alone would probably be near 1800. His exercise burns may not have been completely accurate, but he should have definitely been losing at 2100. I realize all people are different, but that doesn't mean I am going to blindly accept things as fact when they clearly don't add up.
100%4 -
cheryldumais wrote: »So happy to hear it is improving for your hubby. Sometimes people on the boards forget that we are all individuals and that not everyone can eat at the same level. I'm glad he's improving and that he's seeing progress in his strength training as well. Kudos to you too for being supportive!
true but maintenance of 2100 calories for a 5'10" male weighing 195lbs who trains 3x per week does not sound right...
And who regularly was averaging between 8-15000 steps daily. His BMR alone would probably be near 1800. His exercise burns may not have been completely accurate, but he should have definitely been losing at 2100. I realize all people are different, but that doesn't mean I am going to blindly accept things as fact when they clearly don't add up.
Well, that's assuming the food logging is accurate.
He could be losing now at an inaccurately logged 1800 that is really around 2100 actual calories.
And prior inaccurate 2100 logged was actually 2400 eaten for maintenance.7 -
It doesn't make sense to me either.
But he's seen the other side of 195lbs for the first time in 7+ years since he made the change.
I'm breastfeeding and maintaining, so I have ~500 more calories because I'm maintaining, and ~350 more calories for breastfeeding, which is why I can soooo many calories.
My other thought is that he was overweight or obese as a child, I wasn't. I don't know if that makes a change to his ability to lose weight as an adult. He's never been checked for any kind of insulin sensitivity, and his doctor hasn't even checked his fasting blood sugar lately. He has no family history of diabetes, but still. Mine has been monitored since I had gestational diabetes. He doesn't get as much sleep as I do, by a couple of hours a night. This may also make a change in our metabolic rates.
These posts make me regret updating. I just thought if someone came along and read it later, either through a search or something, they might like a resolution, but I wish I hadn't.14 -
I’m glad you posted an update because it would bug me not finding a resolution.
May I ask what your/his plan is moving forward?
I ask because I think this would be a great time to really work with his data and nail down how, where, an how many calories he is burning.
Are you using TDEE or NEAT?
I would be tempted to do NEAT for a month at least and isolate out his NEAT from his walking cals and isolate out his lifting cals too.
This way moving forward you have more data to work with than TDEE will give you, and you will be able to adjust easier if problems arise again.
Sorry if this was said up thread, I didn’t reread it all, just picked up from the update.
Also, there is the chance he is an outlier, hence the lower cals.
Whatever the reason for his cals being lower than expected. The numbers you have now work with your logging, including any errors you may unintentionally be making or not, so roll with it.
(No ones logging is perfect we get the results using best practice and consistency over time.
Cheers, h.1 -
Another idea to add to the mix: has he ever been tested for celiac disease? It's a gut disease where the gut is triggered to attack itself when you eat certain foods.
The disease can be present for years without gut symptoms. People can have the genes for this disease without it ever triggering, so many people have genes in the family without a known celiac in the family, so they may not know to test for it.
But one of the quirky things about this disease is that sometimes, for some people, it seems to impact weight gain and loss. Some people with it get very skinny and cannot seem to gain weight no matter how much they eat - this is more well known. But there are also people on the other side of things, who end up gaining weight and they can't seem to lose it past a certain point. Last i heard, doctors do not really know why this is.
Fatigue is one symptom that some folks get from this, and it can be more prevalent (or show up for the first time) when people try to eat fewer calories, because the body can have problem absorbing enough nutrients due to the gut damage and so needs more food (and therefore the calories with them) just to keep up the nutrient levels.
No idea, of course, if this is an issue for your hubby. But the initial test for it is a simple blood panel, so it's not too burdensome to request the testing unless you get an ignorant doctor who thinks that 'he can't possibly have this.' There's actually no way to tell this without testing, because there's even a good % of celiacs who are 'silent celiacs' and have no symptoms, but old and out of date medical knowledge thought that didn't exist and not everyone has updated their celiac knowledge. I really don't want to harp on the whole medical thing, but at this point, the medical community is still so bad at realizing someone may have this and testing for it that they estimate 80% of celiacs are still undiagnosed (they estimate this based on studies with randomized testing, and the # of folks in the studies who are positive who were never diagnosed until that point is used to estimate the % of undiagnosed folks in the population, as I understand it).
So if he is still struggling and can't figure out what's going on, probably at least couldn't hurt to check, you know?
This link just mentions the silent celiac disease and a few common symptoms, if that might help to see if it seems relatable. :-) (https://celiac.org/about-celiac-disease/symptoms-of-celiac-disease/ )1
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