Somebody help me wrap my head around this.
Replies
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ExistingFish wrote: »Taking a step back...
Aside from the numbers not lining up the way you'd expect, are there any issues here? Any reason to suspect/worry about a greater health concern?
2100 cals for maintenance or slightly below with the changes in his body that he's seeing... I'd call that a win.
No, just that he is overweight. He's lost a lot (a year ago) and some more before that. He was 270 at his highest, he lost that about 3 years ago, down to 210, then he gained back to about 230 and then last year he lost down to below 200, he's just really wanting to go all the way to his goal this time. I think partly because Iost all of my weight, I'm ready to move on to different fitness goals, he feels like he's been left behind.
I find it frustrating, I keep telling him to count calories and trust that it will work and that it's science and it will work, and for the first 4 weeks that was fine, but we keep going forward and I don't have anything else to tell him.
Part of it may be that he is close to his goal weight. The last 10%, even if it's 20lbs, it still the last 10%. The last few pounds for me came off much slower, but that was intentional.
This is what I suspect. He should lower his weekly goal to 1/2lbs per week. Maybe up cals a little. Or even take a 1 week diet break.
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Thyroid shouldn't particularly account for the differences from predicted to tracked TDEE - that's more likely to a hundred or two hundred calories off for someone with a no longer functional thyroid from what I've read. Not to mention, it should manifest as a lack of energy and activity. Still, blood work is usually cheap, so getting a test doesn't seem unreasonable.
At 7 weeks, it seems unlikely he's retained water from exercise to explain it.
Are there any foods he tends to regularly eat that you don't? I'm wondering if there's a bad entry or two, but only on things he eats so the calorie is coming in low affecting just his numbers.2 -
ExistingFish wrote: »Taking a step back...
Aside from the numbers not lining up the way you'd expect, are there any issues here? Any reason to suspect/worry about a greater health concern?
2100 cals for maintenance or slightly below with the changes in his body that he's seeing... I'd call that a win.
No, just that he is overweight. He's lost a lot (a year ago) and some more before that. He was 270 at his highest, he lost that about 3 years ago, down to 210, then he gained back to about 230 and then last year he lost down to below 200, he's just really wanting to go all the way to his goal this time. I think partly because Iost all of my weight, I'm ready to move on to different fitness goals, he feels like he's been left behind.
I find it frustrating, I keep telling him to count calories and trust that it will work and that it's science and it will work, and for the first 4 weeks that was fine, but we keep going forward and I don't have anything else to tell him.
Part of it may be that he is close to his goal weight. The last 10%, even if it's 20lbs, it still the last 10%. The last few pounds for me came off much slower, but that was intentional.
This is what I suspect. He should lower his weekly goal to 1/2lbs per week. Maybe up cals a little. Or even take a 1 week diet break.
Thanks. Currently he's losing about 0.25lb/week, so I think we should stay where we are at. If the weight trending app ever stops trending downward we will have to readjust. He asked about a diet break, I told him 7 weeks was probably a bit premature. Maybe plan one at 12 weeks.
I have suggested to him that he make an effort to be a little more active over the course of the day, he does have a tendency to sit a long time on days he isn't, and then go 10,000% some days. He does construction work with his dad 1-2 days a week, those are the days the fitbit estimates his calories in the upper 3K to 4K range. Gym days are over 3K, but he's pretty sedentary the 1-3 other days of the week.2 -
magnusthenerd wrote: »Thyroid shouldn't particularly account for the differences from predicted to tracked TDEE - that's more likely to a hundred or two hundred calories off for someone with a no longer functional thyroid from what I've read. Not to mention, it should manifest as a lack of energy and activity. Still, blood work is usually cheap, so getting a test doesn't seem unreasonable.
At 7 weeks, it seems unlikely he's retained water from exercise to explain it.
Are there any foods he tends to regularly eat that you don't? I'm wondering if there's a bad entry or two, but only on things he eats so the calorie is coming in low affecting just his numbers.magnusthenerd wrote: »Thyroid shouldn't particularly account for the differences from predicted to tracked TDEE - that's more likely to a hundred or two hundred calories off for someone with a no longer functional thyroid from what I've read. Not to mention, it should manifest as a lack of energy and activity. Still, blood work is usually cheap, so getting a test doesn't seem unreasonable.
At 7 weeks, it seems unlikely he's retained water from exercise to explain it.
Are there any foods he tends to regularly eat that you don't? I'm wondering if there's a bad entry or two, but only on things he eats so the calorie is coming in low affecting just his numbers.
I have thyroid issues and there is always a noticeable drop in energy levels to the point where it’s extremely difficult to upkeep my normal activity (and migraines too). My first sign is always a sudden change in energy levels which means it’s time to get my levels checked. (I also bloat and start to gain weight if I let it go.). If he’s experienced this, get into a doctor sooner rather than later. Getting on the right medications to balance makes a huge difference in my energy levels and weight maintenance.2 -
ExistingFish wrote: »ExistingFish wrote: »Taking a step back...
Aside from the numbers not lining up the way you'd expect, are there any issues here? Any reason to suspect/worry about a greater health concern?
2100 cals for maintenance or slightly below with the changes in his body that he's seeing... I'd call that a win.
No, just that he is overweight. He's lost a lot (a year ago) and some more before that. He was 270 at his highest, he lost that about 3 years ago, down to 210, then he gained back to about 230 and then last year he lost down to below 200, he's just really wanting to go all the way to his goal this time. I think partly because Iost all of my weight, I'm ready to move on to different fitness goals, he feels like he's been left behind.
I find it frustrating, I keep telling him to count calories and trust that it will work and that it's science and it will work, and for the first 4 weeks that was fine, but we keep going forward and I don't have anything else to tell him.
Part of it may be that he is close to his goal weight. The last 10%, even if it's 20lbs, it still the last 10%. The last few pounds for me came off much slower, but that was intentional.
This is what I suspect. He should lower his weekly goal to 1/2lbs per week. Maybe up cals a little. Or even take a 1 week diet break.
Thanks. Currently he's losing about 0.25lb/week, so I think we should stay where we are at. If the weight trending app ever stops trending downward we will have to readjust. He asked about a diet break, I told him 7 weeks was probably a bit premature. Maybe plan one at 12 weeks.
I have suggested to him that he make an effort to be a little more active over the course of the day, he does have a tendency to sit a long time on days he isn't, and then go 10,000% some days. He does construction work with his dad 1-2 days a week, those are the days the fitbit estimates his calories in the upper 3K to 4K range. Gym days are over 3K, but he's pretty sedentary the 1-3 other days of the week.
If the construction is out in the sun and the fitbit uses HR, it might be overestimating. Yes, construction can be hard work, but a HR is going to tend to over calculate work done in heat because the body's heart rate rises to deal with heat, not because of actual increase oxygen demands.8 -
I'm skeptical of the accuracy of his fitbit. At 5'10" 195 I'd expect a TDEE more in the 2500 calorie range unless his activity is just insane. I had a similar spurt of recomp when I thought I should be losing weight and what I ultimately discovered was that my heart rate monitor was giving me way too many calories during workouts so I was basically lean bulking instead of cutting. I only discovered this by starting to use the nSuns adaptive TDEE spreadsheet I found on r/fitness (link to the page below). It back-calculates actual TDEE from daily weight and calorie intake. Once I started eating the right amount I when from low 180s to 170 from August to January (so through holidays and general midwest winter when people often struggle to lose weight most).
https://thefitness.wiki/weight-loss-101/1 -
magnusthenerd wrote: »ExistingFish wrote: »ExistingFish wrote: »Taking a step back...
Aside from the numbers not lining up the way you'd expect, are there any issues here? Any reason to suspect/worry about a greater health concern?
2100 cals for maintenance or slightly below with the changes in his body that he's seeing... I'd call that a win.
No, just that he is overweight. He's lost a lot (a year ago) and some more before that. He was 270 at his highest, he lost that about 3 years ago, down to 210, then he gained back to about 230 and then last year he lost down to below 200, he's just really wanting to go all the way to his goal this time. I think partly because Iost all of my weight, I'm ready to move on to different fitness goals, he feels like he's been left behind.
I find it frustrating, I keep telling him to count calories and trust that it will work and that it's science and it will work, and for the first 4 weeks that was fine, but we keep going forward and I don't have anything else to tell him.
Part of it may be that he is close to his goal weight. The last 10%, even if it's 20lbs, it still the last 10%. The last few pounds for me came off much slower, but that was intentional.
This is what I suspect. He should lower his weekly goal to 1/2lbs per week. Maybe up cals a little. Or even take a 1 week diet break.
Thanks. Currently he's losing about 0.25lb/week, so I think we should stay where we are at. If the weight trending app ever stops trending downward we will have to readjust. He asked about a diet break, I told him 7 weeks was probably a bit premature. Maybe plan one at 12 weeks.
I have suggested to him that he make an effort to be a little more active over the course of the day, he does have a tendency to sit a long time on days he isn't, and then go 10,000% some days. He does construction work with his dad 1-2 days a week, those are the days the fitbit estimates his calories in the upper 3K to 4K range. Gym days are over 3K, but he's pretty sedentary the 1-3 other days of the week.
If the construction is out in the sun and the fitbit uses HR, it might be overestimating. Yes, construction can be hard work, but a HR is going to tend to over calculate work done in heat because the body's heart rate rises to deal with heat, not because of actual increase oxygen demands.
This is true. But even on his days he sits at home and just goes to church in the AM, that day it said he burned 2,900, which is higher than I expected. We estimated he burns 2500-2600 on average (when calculating his calorie goal) and thus a 2100 calorie goal.
He started at 1800, he was tired a lot and didn't have any energy at the gym. He felt bad. I just asked him he said for most of June he was trying for 1800, but he felt bad.1 -
ExistingFish wrote: »magnusthenerd wrote: »ExistingFish wrote: »ExistingFish wrote: »Taking a step back...
Aside from the numbers not lining up the way you'd expect, are there any issues here? Any reason to suspect/worry about a greater health concern?
2100 cals for maintenance or slightly below with the changes in his body that he's seeing... I'd call that a win.
No, just that he is overweight. He's lost a lot (a year ago) and some more before that. He was 270 at his highest, he lost that about 3 years ago, down to 210, then he gained back to about 230 and then last year he lost down to below 200, he's just really wanting to go all the way to his goal this time. I think partly because Iost all of my weight, I'm ready to move on to different fitness goals, he feels like he's been left behind.
I find it frustrating, I keep telling him to count calories and trust that it will work and that it's science and it will work, and for the first 4 weeks that was fine, but we keep going forward and I don't have anything else to tell him.
Part of it may be that he is close to his goal weight. The last 10%, even if it's 20lbs, it still the last 10%. The last few pounds for me came off much slower, but that was intentional.
This is what I suspect. He should lower his weekly goal to 1/2lbs per week. Maybe up cals a little. Or even take a 1 week diet break.
Thanks. Currently he's losing about 0.25lb/week, so I think we should stay where we are at. If the weight trending app ever stops trending downward we will have to readjust. He asked about a diet break, I told him 7 weeks was probably a bit premature. Maybe plan one at 12 weeks.
I have suggested to him that he make an effort to be a little more active over the course of the day, he does have a tendency to sit a long time on days he isn't, and then go 10,000% some days. He does construction work with his dad 1-2 days a week, those are the days the fitbit estimates his calories in the upper 3K to 4K range. Gym days are over 3K, but he's pretty sedentary the 1-3 other days of the week.
If the construction is out in the sun and the fitbit uses HR, it might be overestimating. Yes, construction can be hard work, but a HR is going to tend to over calculate work done in heat because the body's heart rate rises to deal with heat, not because of actual increase oxygen demands.
This is true. But even on his days he sits at home and just goes to church in the AM, that day it said he burned 2,900, which is higher than I expected. We estimated he burns 2500-2600 on average (when calculating his calorie goal) and thus a 2100 calorie goal.
He started at 1800, he was tired a lot and didn't have any energy at the gym. He felt bad. I just asked him he said for most of June he was trying for 1800, but he felt bad.
That’s the worst when you don’t have the energy for the gym. You mentioned he was working to lose weight and more successful prior to this...was he on an 1800 plan then? If so, were his energy levels drastically different?
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did you try swapping Fitbits? Maybe his is wonky. NO activity monitor is 100%, they just give you an idea. In some cases a good idea, in other cases... not so much.
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ExistingFish wrote: »He is 5'10", 195lbs. He is aiming to lose 15-20 more pounds. His weight has plateaued around 196-197 for months.
I am 5'10" at 178lbs and my maintenance/TDEE is 2600 cals/day.
I think your husband can go as high as 2500 cals per day and still lose. I would go slow. 100 cals per day per week. Worst case, if he starts to gain you can go back down.
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Is he on any medications? That can affect weight loss.0
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spiriteagle99 wrote: »Is he on any medications? That can affect weight loss.
No prescriptions, he takes a multivitamin, fish oil supplement, magnesium supplement, an antihistamine, and allergy nose spray.
I take all the same supplements, I don't think they are known to have an effect on weight loss.0 -
This is simple, his activity level isnt as high as you guys think it is.10
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BasedGawd412 wrote: »This is simple, his activity level isnt as high as you guys think it is.
Even not taking into account the fitbit readings (which could be off for any number of reasons), I live with the guy - I go to the gym with him, we lift together, we cardio together, I am well aware of his activity level.
I know, in reality - he is losing (very slowly) and his body composition is changing in a big way, we should be happy. I'm just having a frustrating day. He woke up this morning to a temporary scale bump up, despite his hard work, while I woke up having lost 3lbs in the past two days (not trying to lose). I know scale fluctuations are just that, it's just endlessly frustrating.6 -
You know I could find 10 other threads that say it's all CO>CI, these boards are kind of contradictory, aren't they.
I agree to a point, but the logic part of my brain says the energy comes from somewhere, if you aren't getting it from your food, the body has to pull that energy from somewhere. Not necessarily that if you cut out 3,500 calories you lose a pound, but over time, if you eat less than you burn, you should be losing weight. It's science. It's logic.6 -
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Lillymoo01 wrote: »
He would have to be way sneakier than he is to do that. Poor weighing skills would be more likely, although I've watched him weigh, he seems to do it correctly.0 -
ExistingFish wrote: »Lillymoo01 wrote: »
He would have to be way sneakier than he is to do that. Poor weighing skills would be more likely, although I've watched him weigh, he seems to do it correctly.
You are not with him 24/7. It isn't hard to get something to eat on the way to and from work or during a lunch break.10 -
ExistingFish wrote: »
You know I could find 10 other threads that say it's all CO>CI, these boards are kind of contradictory, aren't they.
I agree to a point, but the logic part of my brain says the energy comes from somewhere, if you aren't getting it from your food, the body has to pull that energy from somewhere. Not necessarily that if you cut out 3,500 calories you lose a pound, but over time, if you eat less than you burn, you should be losing weight. It's science. It's logic.
I'm not sure I follow.
Nothing contradicts CICO. Nothing. There's context and nuance and depth to what makes up both CI and CO... and that context and depth and nuance can vary person to person. And that context and depth and nuance is where the difference lies for toy and your husband. But your seem to want to ignore that and only focus on how much you both eat and how active you both are.
Fact is... you both have different genetics, metabolisms, hormones, body composition, BMRs, NEATs, stress levels, sleep quality, and who knows how many other things. These things matter, and they impact CO. Some might impact CI as well.22 -
Which part of all the inches is not good? To me that part is what sounds wonderful and way better than a scale change. Also what has been the trend change over time? I get that he had a scale fluctuation this morning, but has the trend not generally been slightly down?
In terms of troubleshooting water weight:
Is he sore from the training?
Given that you guys work from home, is he generally sedentary other than during the exercise sessions?
Is his heart rate slightly higher than average perhaps?1 -
Lillymoo01 wrote: »ExistingFish wrote: »Lillymoo01 wrote: »
He would have to be way sneakier than he is to do that. Poor weighing skills would be more likely, although I've watched him weigh, he seems to do it correctly.
You are not with him 24/7. It isn't hard to get something to eat on the way to and from work or during a lunch break.
If you actually read my posts, you'd know he's a SAHD and I work full time from home. He doesn't drive to work, and I don't go to work during the day.
I had to come back to this - how oblivious do you think I am? Do you think my spouse would lie to me? Or that I wouldn't notice money regularly being spent on food? Or what? Maybe that is how you treat your significant other or how you have have been treated, but that isn't how we treat each other.
I'm on here because I care about him. I can tell how distressed he is not seeing change on the scale. If we were the type of people who lied about how much we ate and snuck food and hid it, I'd probably just shrug and tell him "I guess you got to eat less, I'm not having any trouble", but that isn't how our relationship is.27 -
You said that he worked construction 2 days a week (at least I think I recall you saying that). Could it be that he is eating and/or drinking some things at work that he is forgetting to log once he gets home? I know that in the heat construction workers drink a lot of things such as gatorade to replace electrolytes.12
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Which part of all the inches is not good? To me that part is what sounds wonderful and way better than a scale change. Also what has been the trend change over time? I get that he had a scale fluctuation this morning, but has the trend not generally been slightly down?
In terms of troubleshooting water weight:
Is he sore from the training?
Given that you guys work from home, is he generally sedentary other than during the exercise sessions?
Is his heart rate slightly higher than average perhaps?
No the inches are fantastic.
The trend has been downward, about 0.25/lb per week. I feel like 0.5lb/week should not be so difficult to achieve.
Sore from training definitely accounts for the scale fluctuation this morning.
I'd say lightly active, he does the laundry and chores and stuff and cares for 3 little kids.2 -
I hesitate to post as I am no expert on this. The only question I didn't see posted was the possibility that he could be gaining muscle weight from his training efforts that is off-setting his fat loss. Just a thought.7
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I hesitate to post as I am no expert on this. The only question I didn't see posted was the possibility that he could be gaining muscle weight from his training efforts that is off-setting his fat loss. Just a thought.
Given his measurement changes, something has to be happening, but it is hard to build significant muscle mass at a deficit, or even at maintenance, so we haven't expected too much in the way of additional muscle mass.3 -
You said that he worked construction 2 days a week (at least I think I recall you saying that). Could it be that he is eating and/or drinking some things at work that he is forgetting to log once he gets home? I know that in the heat construction workers drink a lot of things such as gatorade to replace electrolytes.
That is a good point, but when I say he works construction, I mean he is working with his dad to build our future house, on property owned by his parents.
That said, his parent's house is a danger zone for him, he has a tendency to snack when he's there. But since I've pointed it out, I don't think he is snacking. He wants to lose weight, he isn't sabotaging himself.6 -
Could hebe eating when you’re not around2
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Lots of people want to lose weight. They can still very easily overeat.10
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The fact that you feel he should be losing faster as opposed to slower doesn't really matter too much especially given that he's moving on the inches.
I really don't know why people think that it is impossible to be building muscle for an untrained individual who is in not at an extremely severe deficit while applying sufficient stimulus. In fact the interplay of the three conditions (level of training, size of deficit, and degree of stimulus) is what is going to determine what will happen.
So you have some of the deficit explained by actual weight loss based on trend. You also obviously have visible changes in terms of fat loss that exceed the apparent scale weight changes. And a 7 weeks timeframe which is not nothing but if also not several months or several years either....
Just remember that what matters is what happens *most* of the time!
The guy is obviously making progress.
I don't want to generalize, but I often see on these boards that frustration is often an indication that we may be pushing a little bit too hard and feeling that we deserve better results for being so good.
But weight management is something that will extend for many years to come. Well past the point where we will wake every morning ready to be really good!
So reducing the pressure and removing time tables is a good thing!
All I can suggest is to celebrate the accomplishments which are significant, and to bring about conditions such that they can be enjoyed and continued indefinitely till he gets to the final results he wants to achieve and has established a mindset that will be conducive to maintaining those results!
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