Intermittent fasting, I don’t get it
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Recent research argues that IF is just a another way to achieve a negative energy balance as other people have already said.
"While intermittent fasting appears to produce similar effects to continuous energy restriction to reduce body weight, fat mass, fat-free mass and improve glucose homeostasis, and may reduce appetite, it does not appear to attenuate other adaptive responses to energy restriction or improve weight loss efficiency, albeit most of the reviewed publications were not powered to assess these outcomes. Intermittent fasting thus represents a valid--albeit apparently not superior--option to continuous energy restriction for weight loss" (Seimon et al, 2015).
Seimon, R. V., Roekenes, J. A., Zibellini, J., Zhu, B., Gibson, A. A., Hills, A. P., ... & Sainsbury, A. (2015). Do intermittent diets provide physiological benefits over continuous diets for weight loss? A systematic review of clinical trials. Molecular and cellular endocrinology, 418, 153-172.7 -
paperpudding wrote: »I suspect if you have always eaten within an 8 hour window and typically have your last meal before 5:00 pm, then you won't see additional results but you are probably getting results compared to someone who eats late at night.
I doubt this - but even if it is so ,why would that matter??
I dont need to get results compared to anyone else.
I got the results I wanted eating the calorie level I was given and eating at all sorts of times of day and almost always eating breakfast and very rarely eating dinner before 7 pm and usually something later than that as well.
Even if theoretically I could increase my loss rate by 0.01 lb per week or something by IF why would I want to do that when eating that way is so impractical and undesirable for me and I get good results by eating the way I want?
What I meant was if you eat your last meal by 5:00 pm you will get better results than someone who eats later at night. Eating too close to bed time is not good for weight loss. The earlier you take your last meal the better. Or so I've been told, but it makes sense.33 -
paperpudding wrote: »I suspect if you have always eaten within an 8 hour window and typically have your last meal before 5:00 pm, then you won't see additional results but you are probably getting results compared to someone who eats late at night.
I doubt this - but even if it is so ,why would that matter??
I dont need to get results compared to anyone else.
I got the results I wanted eating the calorie level I was given and eating at all sorts of times of day and almost always eating breakfast and very rarely eating dinner before 7 pm and usually something later than that as well.
Even if theoretically I could increase my loss rate by 0.01 lb per week or something by IF why would I want to do that when eating that way is so impractical and undesirable for me and I get good results by eating the way I want?
What I meant was if you eat your last meal by 5:00 pm you will get better results than someone who eats later at night. Eating too close to bed time is not good for weight loss. The earlier you take your last meal the better. Or so I've been told, but it makes sense.
The only reason to not eat close to bed-time is if it causes issues with acid reflux. Other than that, meal-timing is a matter of personal choice and makes no difference to weight loss (as long as calories are still in a deficit).11 -
paperpudding wrote: »I suspect if you have always eaten within an 8 hour window and typically have your last meal before 5:00 pm, then you won't see additional results but you are probably getting results compared to someone who eats late at night.
I doubt this - but even if it is so ,why would that matter??
I dont need to get results compared to anyone else.
I got the results I wanted eating the calorie level I was given and eating at all sorts of times of day and almost always eating breakfast and very rarely eating dinner before 7 pm and usually something later than that as well.
Even if theoretically I could increase my loss rate by 0.01 lb per week or something by IF why would I want to do that when eating that way is so impractical and undesirable for me and I get good results by eating the way I want?
What I meant was if you eat your last meal by 5:00 pm you will get better results than someone who eats later at night. Eating too close to bed time is not good for weight loss. The earlier you take your last meal the better. Or so I've been told, but it makes sense.
It doesn't actually make sense. You don't stop burning fat overnight, and even if you burned more while being awake between 5 and 11 (or whatever), you would not burn more overall, so the deficit would be the same, the timing of when the calories were burnt would vary.
Also, I suspect the vast majority of people cannot eat so early as 5 pm because they work, not to mention cook. For others it would be odd within their cultures to eat that early (I think that's so in parts of the US, most IMO, and in many European countries, for example). Aspiring to eat that early is unnecessary and would interfere with many people's lives in an unreasonable way.10 -
paperpudding wrote: »I suspect if you have always eaten within an 8 hour window and typically have your last meal before 5:00 pm, then you won't see additional results but you are probably getting results compared to someone who eats late at night.
I doubt this - but even if it is so ,why would that matter??
I dont need to get results compared to anyone else.
I got the results I wanted eating the calorie level I was given and eating at all sorts of times of day and almost always eating breakfast and very rarely eating dinner before 7 pm and usually something later than that as well.
Even if theoretically I could increase my loss rate by 0.01 lb per week or something by IF why would I want to do that when eating that way is so impractical and undesirable for me and I get good results by eating the way I want?
What I meant was if you eat your last meal by 5:00 pm you will get better results than someone who eats later at night. Eating too close to bed time is not good for weight loss. The earlier you take your last meal the better. Or so I've been told, but it makes sense.
Don't feel bad. It "made sense" to me for many years. I wasn't trying to stop at 5pm I was trying to stop by 6:30pm but it was the same basic thing.
The reality is that it makes no difference because your body is using energy 24 hours a day to stay alive. It doesn't even matter if your calorie goal is 1700 and you decide to eat 1200 calories today and 2200 calories tomorrow. That is assuming the 1200 doesn't make you miserable.8 -
I get 1800 calories overnight via j tube and I haven't really gained much (a lb or 2.. I'm 20 underweight). My feed starts at 830 pm. I guess I should be gaining a lot.13
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paperpudding wrote: »I suspect if you have always eaten within an 8 hour window and typically have your last meal before 5:00 pm, then you won't see additional results but you are probably getting results compared to someone who eats late at night.
I doubt this - but even if it is so ,why would that matter??
I dont need to get results compared to anyone else.
I got the results I wanted eating the calorie level I was given and eating at all sorts of times of day and almost always eating breakfast and very rarely eating dinner before 7 pm and usually something later than that as well.
Even if theoretically I could increase my loss rate by 0.01 lb per week or something by IF why would I want to do that when eating that way is so impractical and undesirable for me and I get good results by eating the way I want?
What I meant was if you eat your last meal by 5:00 pm you will get better results than someone who eats later at night. Eating too close to bed time is not good for weight loss. The earlier you take your last meal the better. Or so I've been told, but it makes sense.
I dont think you will. How on earth would that work? What would be so magical about eating dinner before 5:00?
and given my N=1 showed perfectly good results not doing so, I dont think I would.
Besides which, is totally impractical suggestion for me - I dont finish work till 5:30, my husband doesnt finish work till 7 pm - we very rarely eat before 7.
Total calorie intake matters, not meal timing.
Meal timing only matters if it helps you achieve a calorie deficit.
4 -
paperpudding wrote: »I suspect if you have always eaten within an 8 hour window and typically have your last meal before 5:00 pm, then you won't see additional results but you are probably getting results compared to someone who eats late at night.
I doubt this - but even if it is so ,why would that matter??
I dont need to get results compared to anyone else.
I got the results I wanted eating the calorie level I was given and eating at all sorts of times of day and almost always eating breakfast and very rarely eating dinner before 7 pm and usually something later than that as well.
Even if theoretically I could increase my loss rate by 0.01 lb per week or something by IF why would I want to do that when eating that way is so impractical and undesirable for me and I get good results by eating the way I want?
What I meant was if you eat your last meal by 5:00 pm you will get better results than someone who eats later at night. Eating too close to bed time is not good for weight loss. The earlier you take your last meal the better. Or so I've been told, but it makes sense.
I really wonder how I managed to lose weight and keep it off for several years while having something to eat not long before bed. It must be a miracle. That or you have no idea between fact and fiction.9 -
paperpudding wrote: »I suspect if you have always eaten within an 8 hour window and typically have your last meal before 5:00 pm, then you won't see additional results but you are probably getting results compared to someone who eats late at night.
I doubt this - but even if it is so ,why would that matter??
I dont need to get results compared to anyone else.
I got the results I wanted eating the calorie level I was given and eating at all sorts of times of day and almost always eating breakfast and very rarely eating dinner before 7 pm and usually something later than that as well.
Even if theoretically I could increase my loss rate by 0.01 lb per week or something by IF why would I want to do that when eating that way is so impractical and undesirable for me and I get good results by eating the way I want?
What I meant was if you eat your last meal by 5:00 pm you will get better results than someone who eats later at night. Eating too close to bed time is not good for weight loss. The earlier you take your last meal the better. Or so I've been told, but it makes sense.
@RC4655 I had the same experience from the age 23-63 on a high carb high fat Way Of Eating.
5 years ago I moved to a low carb high fat WOE hoping for pain management and to reverse or slow 40 years of health decline.
Thankfully the results are exceeding my expectations in all areas.
Now if I wake up in the middle of the night hungry I often get up and eat. I never go hungry now. Keep in mind my Way Of Eating doesn't include anything containing any added sugar and or any form of any grain.
The funny part is by not limiting my calories but my type of calories in the first year I had lost 50 pounds and have maintained that 50 pound loss for 4 years now never going hungry.
Best of continued success.
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paperpudding wrote: »I suspect if you have always eaten within an 8 hour window and typically have your last meal before 5:00 pm, then you won't see additional results but you are probably getting results compared to someone who eats late at night.
I doubt this - but even if it is so ,why would that matter??
I dont need to get results compared to anyone else.
I got the results I wanted eating the calorie level I was given and eating at all sorts of times of day and almost always eating breakfast and very rarely eating dinner before 7 pm and usually something later than that as well.
Even if theoretically I could increase my loss rate by 0.01 lb per week or something by IF why would I want to do that when eating that way is so impractical and undesirable for me and I get good results by eating the way I want?
What I meant was if you eat your last meal by 5:00 pm you will get better results than someone who eats later at night. Eating too close to bed time is not good for weight loss. The earlier you take your last meal the better. Or so I've been told, but it makes sense.
Lalala 120 lbs gone while eating the bulk of my calories starting at around midnight lalala
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IF has changed my life. Not only have I dropped pounds I never thought were possible, I don't feel deprived, digestion is much better and I'm never bloated anymore. 16:8 is just a starting off point. You really start seeing benefits when you increase your fasting time. I do one 24 hours fast per week and it makes me feel so energized.
IF may be a gimmick or joke to some, but for me it's what finally got me to start losing weight. 38 pounds so far. Slowly, but that's ok, because I know I'll keep it off.9 -
paperpudding wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »I suspect if you have always eaten within an 8 hour window and typically have your last meal before 5:00 pm, then you won't see additional results but you are probably getting results compared to someone who eats late at night.
I doubt this - but even if it is so ,why would that matter??
I dont need to get results compared to anyone else.
I got the results I wanted eating the calorie level I was given and eating at all sorts of times of day and almost always eating breakfast and very rarely eating dinner before 7 pm and usually something later than that as well.
Even if theoretically I could increase my loss rate by 0.01 lb per week or something by IF why would I want to do that when eating that way is so impractical and undesirable for me and I get good results by eating the way I want?
What I meant was if you eat your last meal by 5:00 pm you will get better results than someone who eats later at night. Eating too close to bed time is not good for weight loss. The earlier you take your last meal the better. Or so I've been told, but it makes sense.
I dont think you will. How on earth would that work? What would be so magical about eating dinner before 5:00?
and given my N=1 showed perfectly good results not doing so, I dont think I would.
Besides which, is totally impractical suggestion for me - I dont finish work till 5:30, my husband doesnt finish work till 7 pm - we very rarely eat before 7.
Total calorie intake matters, not meal timing.
Meal timing only matters if it helps you achieve a calorie deficit.
The way I always heard it, and I have heard it from many people over a very long time, is that when you eat too close to bedtime your body converts what you have eaten to fat because you don't burn as many calories when you sleep.
It doesn't actually make sense but I understand that if people keep hearing it you just accept it as fact and move on. When I was battling my weight as a teen I knew a very obese person who lost a lot of weight by eliminating dinner and that made an impression on me too. So yeah, I believe it. Of course I believed that I should only eat complex carbs since the 80's too. I didn't follow it very closely but I believed it to be true because it is "common knowledge".4 -
paperpudding wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »I suspect if you have always eaten within an 8 hour window and typically have your last meal before 5:00 pm, then you won't see additional results but you are probably getting results compared to someone who eats late at night.
I doubt this - but even if it is so ,why would that matter??
I dont need to get results compared to anyone else.
I got the results I wanted eating the calorie level I was given and eating at all sorts of times of day and almost always eating breakfast and very rarely eating dinner before 7 pm and usually something later than that as well.
Even if theoretically I could increase my loss rate by 0.01 lb per week or something by IF why would I want to do that when eating that way is so impractical and undesirable for me and I get good results by eating the way I want?
What I meant was if you eat your last meal by 5:00 pm you will get better results than someone who eats later at night. Eating too close to bed time is not good for weight loss. The earlier you take your last meal the better. Or so I've been told, but it makes sense.
I dont think you will. How on earth would that work? What would be so magical about eating dinner before 5:00?
and given my N=1 showed perfectly good results not doing so, I dont think I would.
Besides which, is totally impractical suggestion for me - I dont finish work till 5:30, my husband doesnt finish work till 7 pm - we very rarely eat before 7.
Total calorie intake matters, not meal timing.
Meal timing only matters if it helps you achieve a calorie deficit.
The way I always heard it, and I have heard it from many people over a very long time, is that when you eat too close to bedtime your body converts what you have eaten to fat because you don't burn as many calories when you sleep.
It doesn't actually make sense but I understand that if people keep hearing it you just accept it as fact and move on. When I was battling my weight as a teen I knew a very obese person who lost a lot of weight by eliminating dinner and that made an impression on me too. So yeah, I believe it. Of course I believed that I should only eat complex carbs since the 80's too. I didn't follow it very closely but I believed it to be true because it is "common knowledge".
Things can become so ingrained because of tradition that we don't even question it. I just watch a video on primary colors and cyan, magenta, and yellow are apparently the true primary colors but kids are still being taught that it's red, yellow, and blue. That's why printer colors are cyan, magenta, and yellow, because printers don't care about tradition so they need the actual primary colors.7 -
IF was a "major player" in me reclaiming my ideal weight range of 172-177 lbs. which I entered 6 months ago today on 2/20/2019.
In the 182 days since, 175 days have been within this 172-177 lb. range with an average daily morning weight of 172.8 lbs. and an average morning daily weight variance of a mere 0.03 lbs. The last time I was over range was on 3/10/2019 with a morning weight of 177.1 lbs.
At age 64, my current weight is about 2 lbs. over what I weighed when discharged from the Army almost 44 years ago.
IF is also what got me to my ideal weight range having started at 210.8 lbs. on 8/31/2018.
Obviously, there are other "tools" I used to get me where I'm at but, for me, IF ranks at the top.
So, for me, my title is: "Intermittent fasting, I get it"
Thinking about changing my ideal weight range to 170-175 lbs. and will make a decision on 8/31/2019 which will be the one-year anniversary of when I began my current fitness, health and wellness journey.7 -
Does it really matter what anyone calls it? I skipped breakfast for most of my life and I still gained weight. However a few months ago I found a tool(IF or TRE, whatever anyone wants to call it) that helped me get under control an almost 3 decade old problem that I had...medicating myself with food.
Many years ago in a far away land(okay...little dramatic) an incident occurred in my life. I spiraled out of control for several years. One day I discovered I that "snacking" gave me some relief. This went on up until recently when I found that putting myself on an eating schedule finally gave me some control back.
A couple of years ago I lost 75lbs...almost to goal. I lost it just counting calories. Then I woke up one morning and that spiraling out of control was back and I just couldn't stop it. Long story short...I gained all the weight back. This time around I have done things differently...for me it is all about having control. My eating schedule has done this for me...whatever you want or don't want to call it. For the first time in nearly 30 years I am getting my life back.
I don't want to turn this into a book but...IF, TRE, SB as far as I know hasn't cured a thing for me physically but it has been a tool for me mentally. I no longer think about food all day, I don't miss all those "snacks" nor am I no longer stressed if I slip up and "eat to much". It has been work but my life is changing. I am getting our more, making plans and maybe most importantly I am beginning to like myself more. So whatever anyone wants to call it my eating plan has been a valuable tool for me.
Losing weight and changing your life is such a personal process so if someone calling it IF, TRE or even just skipping breakfast and that helps them then my only reaction should be to celebrate their victory. Yes...I am aware that some people will think that these methods hold mystical powers or in some way makes them superior to others. I honestly believe thought that there are more like myself that is just searching for a way to get their life back in control.
I am not trying to change your opinion I am just trying to let you know that there are some of us out here that need all the help that we can get to be successful. I am one of those people. For the first time in almost 30 years I want and feel as if I deserve a happy and successful life. My WOE is just one aspect of me accomplishing that.
Thanks for listening even if you don't agree.11 -
paperpudding wrote: »I suspect if you have always eaten within an 8 hour window and typically have your last meal before 5:00 pm, then you won't see additional results but you are probably getting results compared to someone who eats late at night.
I doubt this - but even if it is so ,why would that matter??
I dont need to get results compared to anyone else.
I got the results I wanted eating the calorie level I was given and eating at all sorts of times of day and almost always eating breakfast and very rarely eating dinner before 7 pm and usually something later than that as well.
Even if theoretically I could increase my loss rate by 0.01 lb per week or something by IF why would I want to do that when eating that way is so impractical and undesirable for me and I get good results by eating the way I want?
What I meant was if you eat your last meal by 5:00 pm you will get better results than someone who eats later at night. Eating too close to bed time is not good for weight loss. The earlier you take your last meal the better. Or so I've been told, but it makes sense.
This is not true, and there's not actually any logic behind it. When you take your last meal, or any meal, is irrelevant. What matters is how many calories you intake vs how many calories you burn. That's it. I lost 40 pounds eating at all hours of the day, including a significant amount after 5pm. I was in a calorie deficit. That is why I lost weight.
Different eating schedules work better for some people. So IF, or not eating past 5, or any other way of eating that one chooses can be beneficial if it works for them to help control their calorie intake. But nobody has ever lost weight from IF by itself. They've lost from the calorie deficit created while they were doing IF. If someone eats at a surplus while doing IF, they will gain weight (some people use IF while intentionally bulking).5 -
paperpudding wrote: »I suspect if you have always eaten within an 8 hour window and typically have your last meal before 5:00 pm, then you won't see additional results but you are probably getting results compared to someone who eats late at night.
I doubt this - but even if it is so ,why would that matter??
I dont need to get results compared to anyone else.
I got the results I wanted eating the calorie level I was given and eating at all sorts of times of day and almost always eating breakfast and very rarely eating dinner before 7 pm and usually something later than that as well.
Even if theoretically I could increase my loss rate by 0.01 lb per week or something by IF why would I want to do that when eating that way is so impractical and undesirable for me and I get good results by eating the way I want?
What I meant was if you eat your last meal by 5:00 pm you will get better results than someone who eats later at night. Eating too close to bed time is not good for weight loss. The earlier you take your last meal the better. Or so I've been told, but it makes sense.
The only sense in which this is certainly true is that if you eat a higher-bulk meal later in the evening, or a higher fraction of foods that require extra water retention for digestion/metabolization, your AM weigh-in could be a tiny bit higher than if you've left more time to eliminate some of that totally irrelevant water or digestive-contents weight (via urination or defecation) by the time you weigh in. Per research already cited, it has no significant effect on fat loss over the longer term. So why worry about it?
According to the research-based Compendium of Physical Activities, sleeping is a 0.95 MET activity. This means that you burn about 95% as many calories while sleeping as you do while quietly lying watching television (estimated as a 1.0 MET activity). Metabolic activity during sleep isn't dramatically different from metabolic activity while awake, and full digestive transit/digestion takes much longer than a typical person's single sleep cycle anyway.
In practice, this question of eating near bedtime gets complicated, because some people sleep better if they don't eat close to bedtime, and others don't sleep well if they don't eat shortly before bed, and sufficient good-quality sleep for sure makes weight loss easier.
But even that effect isn't that huge, within a range of normal activity. Identifying factors that contribute to compliance with a reduced calorie intake, for oneself as an individual, is useful and can make a significant contribution to accomplishing weight loss, as a practical matter. Beyond that, worrying about timing of eating (for anyone not an elite athlete) is IMO majoring in the minors.
IF is great for weight loss among people for whom it helps manage appetite and intake, sleep quality or disease symptoms (like heartburn). It's optional, and in some cases positively detrimental, for people for whom it doesn't help those sorts of things.
There seems to be a human impulse to seek reasons why everyone should do the exact same things we choose to do ourselves, by demonstrating that they're objectively "best". I don't get it.4 -
Actually my sleep has been worse while I've been doing IF these past 3 months. Some other key things have been better, but for some reason I'm not sleeping as well. I wish I understood what was going on with that and how to potentially address it without giving up on IF. IF has been life-changing for me in terms of appetite suppression, energy level, calorie discipline, ability to not exceed my calorie number while still having 2 big meals everyday which then keeps me from cheating, etc. But I'm not getting 7+ hrs of quality sleep any night of the week. There's definitely been an impact of IF on my sleep and not in a good way.2
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amusedmonkey wrote: »In my opinion, IF and skipping meals are not the same, even if they look the same. IF is done deliberately for a certain goal, like calorie control. Skipping meals just happens. Just like when someone ends up eating fewer calories one day because they're busy without the intent of dieting, it's not dieting. The act of dieting is deliberate and has a purpose.
But IF is not a diet. It is simply an eating schedule. If one is controlling calories for weight loss, I don't see any difference. Intentionally calling it IF doesn't cause better weight loss.11 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »In my opinion, IF and skipping meals are not the same, even if they look the same. IF is done deliberately for a certain goal, like calorie control. Skipping meals just happens. Just like when someone ends up eating fewer calories one day because they're busy without the intent of dieting, it's not dieting. The act of dieting is deliberate and has a purpose.
But IF is not a diet. It is simply an eating schedule. If one is controlling calories for weight loss, I don't see any difference. Intentionally calling it IF doesn't cause better weight loss.
The magic is in the spells and incantations?
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