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Why Carbs Make Us Fat...

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  • J72FITJ72FIT Posts: 5,292Member Member Posts: 5,292Member Member
    J72FIT wrote: »
    "Make no mistake, I want you to eat carbs, and I want you to enjoy your carbs, I just don’t want you to overeat carbs, because I don’t want you to overeat, period..."
    –Brad Pilon

    But you could substitute anything in there - I want you to eat fats and i want you to enjoy fats.......

    and most foods are a combination of macros anyway

    no need to demonise carbs.

    He is not demonizing carbs...
  • J72FITJ72FIT Posts: 5,292Member Member Posts: 5,292Member Member
    nooshi713 wrote: »
    So basically people can’t control themselves when eating carbs, therefore eating too many, which also means eating too many calories. So it isn’t really carbs, but calories that make is fat.

    But, we already knew this.

    Carbs have been vilified for too long.

    I like carbs. Carbs are good.

    He is not demonizing carbs...
  • Lillymoo01Lillymoo01 Posts: 2,453Member Member Posts: 2,453Member Member
    It is also interesting to note that one of the first questions my psychologist asked me when trying to determine whether I had an eating disorder or not was whether I enjoyed the food I was eating. Psst I wouldn't eat food that I don't like and I don't have an eating disorder. It is just that my TDEE is a reasonable amount higher than MFP allots me so I was losing weight quicker than expected and kept losing when I was trying to maintain. Certainly not complaining about the extra 200 calories a day I eat now.

    I am not suggesting that someone that goes down this path has a disordered relationship with food, but it is definitely a red flag for health professionals.
  • nooshi713nooshi713 Posts: 3,557Member Member Posts: 3,557Member Member
    J72FIT wrote: »
    nooshi713 wrote: »
    So basically people can’t control themselves when eating carbs, therefore eating too many, which also means eating too many calories. So it isn’t really carbs, but calories that make is fat.

    But, we already knew this.

    Carbs have been vilified for too long.

    I like carbs. Carbs are good.

    He is not demonizing carbs...

    I know the OP wasn’t, but I meant some people in general have jumped on this *carbs are bad* bandwagon.

  • lemurcat2lemurcat2 Posts: 3,373Member Member Posts: 3,373Member Member
    nooshi713 wrote: »
    J72FIT wrote: »
    nooshi713 wrote: »
    So basically people can’t control themselves when eating carbs, therefore eating too many, which also means eating too many calories. So it isn’t really carbs, but calories that make is fat.

    But, we already knew this.

    Carbs have been vilified for too long.

    I like carbs. Carbs are good.

    He is not demonizing carbs...

    I know the OP wasn’t, but I meant some people in general have jumped on this *carbs are bad* bandwagon.

    I've seen this in the thread too. Not saying that was the point of the linked article.
  • slimgirljo15slimgirljo15 Posts: 222,821Member, Premium Member Posts: 222,821Member, Premium Member
    I feel guilty *hides bag of popcorn*
    I'll see myself out :# :D
  • wilson10102018wilson10102018 Posts: 477Member Member Posts: 477Member Member
    Reading food diaries of the obese is not for the fainthearted. Instead of "bag of potato crisps" "Tim Horton donut" or "Fast food french fries" (the tasty high carb items) one is more likely to see:

    Breakfast, "pint of Greek yogurt and baby spinach with soy hot dogs," or

    Lunch, "mashed Brussels sprouts with a pint of low calorie pizza sauce"

    One could conclude from this type of observation that it is revolting diet concoctions and not tasty carbs that make people fat.

    I'm sure I would not find these types of culinary inventions in the food diaries of the fit.

  • J72FITJ72FIT Posts: 5,292Member Member Posts: 5,292Member Member
    J72FIT wrote: »
    J72FIT wrote: »
    "Make no mistake, I want you to eat carbs, and I want you to enjoy your carbs, I just don’t want you to overeat carbs, because I don’t want you to overeat, period..."
    –Brad Pilon

    But you could substitute anything in there - I want you to eat fats and i want you to enjoy fats.......

    and most foods are a combination of macros anyway

    no need to demonise carbs.

    He is not demonizing carbs...

    Well in your opinion he is not.

    I think he is singly out and demonising carbs when same thing about over eating could be said about any macro or any food.

    Which is how he ended the article by stating he does not want us to overeat period. Maybe if it was 3 sentences instead of 2 you would have a different opinion...
  • J72FITJ72FIT Posts: 5,292Member Member Posts: 5,292Member Member
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    J72FIT wrote: »
    MikePTY wrote: »
    J72FIT wrote: »
    MikePTY wrote: »

    zr4jys19qbn9.gif

    Wow. Did the "disagrees" even read the article?!?

    I didn't disagree and I did read the article, but I don't disagree with most of the articles conclusions (besides that carbs are in fact awesome). I still think plays into a lot of anti-carb myths. I don't think it's that easy to overeat "carbs", in eating foods that are high in carbohydrates. Eating a 73 ounce steak for 3500 calories is certainly difficult. But so is eating 5 pounds of cooked pasta, or 35 slices of bread, or 25 medium potatoes, or 15 pounds of Pineapple. While everyone is different, and for some people these could be problem/trigger foods, when most people talk about "carbs", they are usually talking about things like sweets, chocolate, cookies, chips, fast food, etc. And all those things are not really "carbs" in the traditional sense, which I would define as foods with 70% or more in carb content. Most of those items could better be described as "fats" because they usually derive most of their calories from fats rather than carbs. The truth is it's that moderate carb, high fat mix that are a lot of these items that make them delicious and easy to overeat for a lot of people. But somehow fat gets to escape by Scott free while carbs take all the blame.

    If you look at the nutritional menus of any restaurant, most of their meals that are 1000 calories or more will derive most of their calories from fats, not carbs. The carbs may help make it tasty, but the fat is there to do most of the work.

    I think why a lot of people feel the need to "cut carbs" is because they don't really understand which foods are carbs, and which are not. I don't think this article helps much in that regard, as it still makes carbs out to be this evil driver of weight gain (a delicious evil, but still), when I don't believe that it is really the case.

    He also mentions...

    "Carbs are everywhere. They taste great, they can be crunchy or soft, thick or airy, chocolate or vanilla. They’re convenient, they’re easy to carry, they don’t need to be refrigerated but can taste great hot or frozen, They have a great shelf-life… really, they’re awesome. Heck, carbs can even make protein and fat taste better, and protein and fat make carbs taste better..."

    He takes into account the combo factor.

    As a one line throwaway but still places the blame on the carbs. The truth is that fats are used to make bland carbs taste good as much as the other way around. Have you ever tried to overeat Boiled potatoes or plain pasta? It's hard. But throw the potatoes in a frier with oil, or bake/mash them and add butter/sourcream/bacon and you've got yourself something worth eating. Take that pasta and slather it with butter or add a bunch of cheese or a cream sauce and some meat and then you have something you can scarf through. There's a reason why most dressings are primarily fat. Because fat tastes super good too.

    Not on it's own...

    I'd take plain cheese (mostly fat) over plain rice (mostly carbs) any day.

    I would argue it's the added salt that makes cheese so good. Kinda like salted and unsalted butter. But again, that's just me...
  • J72FITJ72FIT Posts: 5,292Member Member Posts: 5,292Member Member
    kimny72 wrote: »
    J72FIT wrote: »
    nooshi713 wrote: »
    So basically people can’t control themselves when eating carbs, therefore eating too many, which also means eating too many calories. So it isn’t really carbs, but calories that make is fat.

    But, we already knew this.

    Carbs have been vilified for too long.

    I like carbs. Carbs are good.

    He is not demonizing carbs...

    He is saying that carbs are so wonderful that we can't help but overeat them which is what's making us fat. So he's saying carbs are making us fat, but not because they are evil but because they are wonderful and easy to overeat.

    So yeah, if you want to play semantics, he's not demonizing carbs, but he's still saying carbs are the problem. Some other sentences from the blog post:

    "That’s why carbs make you fat. Forget the rest of the scientific theorizing and posturing… Some is right and some is wrong, but none of it is as important as the fact that carbs are awesome."

    "This is also the exact reason why watching your carbohydrate intake will most likely make you lose weight."

    "This is why watching your carb intake makes sense."

    "Learn to occasionally say no to carbs-rich foods. "

    And this last sentence "Make no mistake, I want you to eat carbs, and I want you to enjoy your carbs, I just don’t want you to overeat carbs, because I don’t want you to overeat, period." Taken out of context, it sounds like what we typically say here, that the problem isn't one food group, but over eating in general. But taken as part of the rest of his post, it kind of sounds like he's saying carbs make you over-eat.

    What I think a typical dieter who isn't a regular on the MFP forum would take away from his post - "I need to eat lower carb to lose weight." I suppose I could just be reading it with my own bias, as someone who is tired to death of being told that the rice, oats, pasta, and bread that keeps me full is gonna make me fat, but that's how I read it.

    We are all guilty of that at times...
    edited September 20
  • rheddmobilerheddmobile Posts: 4,537Member Member Posts: 4,537Member Member
    sijomial wrote: »
    Executive summary....
    • Eating too much makes you fat.
    • Eating tasty foods makes it harder to moderate your intake.
    • What people find tasty is very varied.

    Don't suppose that would generate many website hits?

    TBH I find the whole this macro or that macro makes it harder to stay at a good weight vastly overblown - often just another diversion from the biggest issue (over-consumption). When you look at lists of highly satiating foods you find foods that are (predominantly) carbs, protein and fat all represented - plus of course various and varied combinations.

    Personally I could very easily overeat on meat/fish (protein), pasta (starchy carbs) or nuts (fat). That's being driven by my personal taste preferences and not the predominant macro composition of those foods.
    Some of those would be regarded as highly satiating to others.

    Yeah, but you’d have to spend a lot more money to overeat on fat and protein than carbs. I can buy a box of Little Debbie cakes for a dollar, or a pound of salmon or nuts for many times that. Carbs are not only delicious, in our culture they tend to be cheap, and they are easily made in a form which keeps well, which means they are often convenient. You need snacks to stash in your drawer at work, you can pick from nuts, jerky, or... almost any carbs you like. You can buy Coke from a vending machine, you can’t buy milk from a machine (in America, anyway.)

    I thought it was a smart article. As a diabetic who needs access to low carb foods, I have become aware of how much easier our culture makes it to eat an excess of carbs than of other foods. Free Continental breakfast at hotel? Carbs, pay for your own if you want protein. Coworkers bring in treats at work? Carbs. Side dishes at any fast food place? Carbs, fatty carbs, and more carbs. I know of a bbq joint which has deviled eggs as a side, but apart from that, all sides are primarily carbs, usually including beans because fast food joints like to cook beans in sugar sauce.

    I have to plan ahead and spend my own money and cook for myself to have non-carbs available. To eat carbs all I have to do is not say no to the carbs being forced on me.
  • J72FITJ72FIT Posts: 5,292Member Member Posts: 5,292Member Member
    I think the article would have been better titled, "Why Convenience Food Makes Us Fat". Would have been clearer. Still no cause and effect because food alone without the context of diet is meaningless, but still, all the food he mentions are not carbs alone...
    edited September 20
  • lemurcat2lemurcat2 Posts: 3,373Member Member Posts: 3,373Member Member
    J72FIT wrote: »
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    J72FIT wrote: »
    MikePTY wrote: »
    J72FIT wrote: »
    MikePTY wrote: »

    zr4jys19qbn9.gif

    Wow. Did the "disagrees" even read the article?!?

    I didn't disagree and I did read the article, but I don't disagree with most of the articles conclusions (besides that carbs are in fact awesome). I still think plays into a lot of anti-carb myths. I don't think it's that easy to overeat "carbs", in eating foods that are high in carbohydrates. Eating a 73 ounce steak for 3500 calories is certainly difficult. But so is eating 5 pounds of cooked pasta, or 35 slices of bread, or 25 medium potatoes, or 15 pounds of Pineapple. While everyone is different, and for some people these could be problem/trigger foods, when most people talk about "carbs", they are usually talking about things like sweets, chocolate, cookies, chips, fast food, etc. And all those things are not really "carbs" in the traditional sense, which I would define as foods with 70% or more in carb content. Most of those items could better be described as "fats" because they usually derive most of their calories from fats rather than carbs. The truth is it's that moderate carb, high fat mix that are a lot of these items that make them delicious and easy to overeat for a lot of people. But somehow fat gets to escape by Scott free while carbs take all the blame.

    If you look at the nutritional menus of any restaurant, most of their meals that are 1000 calories or more will derive most of their calories from fats, not carbs. The carbs may help make it tasty, but the fat is there to do most of the work.

    I think why a lot of people feel the need to "cut carbs" is because they don't really understand which foods are carbs, and which are not. I don't think this article helps much in that regard, as it still makes carbs out to be this evil driver of weight gain (a delicious evil, but still), when I don't believe that it is really the case.

    He also mentions...

    "Carbs are everywhere. They taste great, they can be crunchy or soft, thick or airy, chocolate or vanilla. They’re convenient, they’re easy to carry, they don’t need to be refrigerated but can taste great hot or frozen, They have a great shelf-life… really, they’re awesome. Heck, carbs can even make protein and fat taste better, and protein and fat make carbs taste better..."

    He takes into account the combo factor.

    As a one line throwaway but still places the blame on the carbs. The truth is that fats are used to make bland carbs taste good as much as the other way around. Have you ever tried to overeat Boiled potatoes or plain pasta? It's hard. But throw the potatoes in a frier with oil, or bake/mash them and add butter/sourcream/bacon and you've got yourself something worth eating. Take that pasta and slather it with butter or add a bunch of cheese or a cream sauce and some meat and then you have something you can scarf through. There's a reason why most dressings are primarily fat. Because fat tastes super good too.

    Not on it's own...

    I'd take plain cheese (mostly fat) over plain rice (mostly carbs) any day.

    I would argue it's the added salt that makes cheese so good. Kinda like salted and unsalted butter. But again, that's just me...

    I never use salted butter, but then I also never could eat butter plain.

    I'd also agree that the salt plus fat plays a role in why cheese is tasty, just as salted nuts are usually harder to stop eating than unsalted (although I could overconsume both easily if not paying attention).

    My point is that it's absurd to suggest that carbs alone are inherently harder to control than any other macro, as for the most part the foods hard to control are a combination.

    I get that some claim that plain rice or plain pasta or the like are hard for them to not overeat, but I bet a diet made up primarily of those foods, plus veg and some form of protein and essential fats for nutrition would be very hard to overeat -- indeed, it's why doing something low fat and mostly plant based like the Fuhrman plan or Ornish or Forks Over Knives tends to cause quick weight loss without counting too. That starch solution diet strikes me as nutritionally unbalanced (same with carnivore and not more so, indeed the all potato hack is pretty much the vegan version of carnivore), but I suspect that for many you get quick weight loss even on a very high carb diet based on foods often considered the hardest "carbs" to limit.

    IMO, this is because a very restrictive diet tends to be boring no matter what macro is predominant, and limiting combos that tend to light up taste buds the most (fat/carbs, anything/salt, protein/fat/carb) makes overeating hard.

    None of this supports the idea that carbs are uniquely tasty or uniquely hard to control.
  • lemurcat2lemurcat2 Posts: 3,373Member Member Posts: 3,373Member Member
    sijomial wrote: »
    Executive summary....
    • Eating too much makes you fat.
    • Eating tasty foods makes it harder to moderate your intake.
    • What people find tasty is very varied.

    Don't suppose that would generate many website hits?

    TBH I find the whole this macro or that macro makes it harder to stay at a good weight vastly overblown - often just another diversion from the biggest issue (over-consumption). When you look at lists of highly satiating foods you find foods that are (predominantly) carbs, protein and fat all represented - plus of course various and varied combinations.

    Personally I could very easily overeat on meat/fish (protein), pasta (starchy carbs) or nuts (fat). That's being driven by my personal taste preferences and not the predominant macro composition of those foods.
    Some of those would be regarded as highly satiating to others.

    Yeah, but you’d have to spend a lot more money to overeat on fat and protein than carbs. I can buy a box of Little Debbie cakes for a dollar, or a pound of salmon or nuts for many times that. Carbs are not only delicious, in our culture they tend to be cheap, and they are easily made in a form which keeps well, which means they are often convenient. You need snacks to stash in your drawer at work, you can pick from nuts, jerky, or... almost any carbs you like. You can buy Coke from a vending machine, you can’t buy milk from a machine (in America, anyway.)

    I thought it was a smart article. As a diabetic who needs access to low carb foods, I have become aware of how much easier our culture makes it to eat an excess of carbs than of other foods. Free Continental breakfast at hotel? Carbs, pay for your own if you want protein. Coworkers bring in treats at work? Carbs. Side dishes at any fast food place? Carbs, fatty carbs, and more carbs. I know of a bbq joint which has deviled eggs as a side, but apart from that, all sides are primarily carbs, usually including beans because fast food joints like to cook beans in sugar sauce.

    I have to plan ahead and spend my own money and cook for myself to have non-carbs available. To eat carbs all I have to do is not say no to the carbs being forced on me.

    Most of the snacky "carbs" are carbs + fat (and I would disagree about how tasty they are, I think most pre-packaged snack foods aren't very good at all).

    You can eat probably just about as cheaply doing a healthy keto as a healthy omnivore, depending on cuts of meat chosen. Both would involve vegetables. Not buying snack foods is cheaper than buying them, no matter how cheap they are, also, and same with eating out vs. cooking at home.
  • rheddmobilerheddmobile Posts: 4,537Member Member Posts: 4,537Member Member
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    sijomial wrote: »
    Executive summary....
    • Eating too much makes you fat.
    • Eating tasty foods makes it harder to moderate your intake.
    • What people find tasty is very varied.

    Don't suppose that would generate many website hits?

    TBH I find the whole this macro or that macro makes it harder to stay at a good weight vastly overblown - often just another diversion from the biggest issue (over-consumption). When you look at lists of highly satiating foods you find foods that are (predominantly) carbs, protein and fat all represented - plus of course various and varied combinations.

    Personally I could very easily overeat on meat/fish (protein), pasta (starchy carbs) or nuts (fat). That's being driven by my personal taste preferences and not the predominant macro composition of those foods.
    Some of those would be regarded as highly satiating to others.

    Yeah, but you’d have to spend a lot more money to overeat on fat and protein than carbs. I can buy a box of Little Debbie cakes for a dollar, or a pound of salmon or nuts for many times that. Carbs are not only delicious, in our culture they tend to be cheap, and they are easily made in a form which keeps well, which means they are often convenient. You need snacks to stash in your drawer at work, you can pick from nuts, jerky, or... almost any carbs you like. You can buy Coke from a vending machine, you can’t buy milk from a machine (in America, anyway.)

    I thought it was a smart article. As a diabetic who needs access to low carb foods, I have become aware of how much easier our culture makes it to eat an excess of carbs than of other foods. Free Continental breakfast at hotel? Carbs, pay for your own if you want protein. Coworkers bring in treats at work? Carbs. Side dishes at any fast food place? Carbs, fatty carbs, and more carbs. I know of a bbq joint which has deviled eggs as a side, but apart from that, all sides are primarily carbs, usually including beans because fast food joints like to cook beans in sugar sauce.

    I have to plan ahead and spend my own money and cook for myself to have non-carbs available. To eat carbs all I have to do is not say no to the carbs being forced on me.

    Most of the snacky "carbs" are carbs + fat (and I would disagree about how tasty they are, I think most pre-packaged snack foods aren't very good at all).

    You can eat probably just about as cheaply doing a healthy keto as a healthy omnivore, depending on cuts of meat chosen. Both would involve vegetables. Not buying snack foods is cheaper than buying them, no matter how cheap they are, also, and same with eating out vs. cooking at home.

    I think it’s valid that you can probably eat as cheaply doing healthy omnivore as healthy keto, but that’s not what’s being discussed here. What’s under discussion is the availablity of cheap, inexpensive foods, which in America tend to be carbs drenched in saturated fat. Avoid carbs (or conversely avoid saturated fat) and you will almost inevitably lose weight, if you have been accustomed to a standard American diet. Of course that doesn’t apply to all people, it only applies to people who have been eating a standard American diet. That you and I can happily become obese eating salmon and veggies drenched in olive oil is not the point of the article. People eating those things are not driving the increase in obesity rates in America today.
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