October 2019 Monthly Running Challenge
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PastorVincent wrote: »Running by feel...Once you lock in a steady cycle of movements your body automatically optimizes the energy flows, the movements and so on....
I really do appreciate this group. Y'all are all such an inspiration. I'm a complete newbie...still working on C25K (and right on schedule)...but I've been thinking about cadence a lot, since I read somewhere that people should run at 180. Is that a hard-and-fast rule? What is a good way to find out what my cadence is? And how do I improve it?
To get your cadence without the help of technology (like a foot pod), you need to count how many strides you take while timing yourself. If you count say 90 strides in 30 seconds, that would be 180 strides per minute.
It would be best to do this several times and average the results.
No. The 180 "rule" is not a rule at all. It is, however, an often greatly abused stat. I would not worry about it in your case. You are still early in the c25k training. Focus on your form, and completing the workouts. Good form and consistent workouts will improve all your stats with time, so that is where you should apply your focus.
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Well done @Lazy_bones_85!
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@Lazy_Bones_85 and @Scott6255 Great races! It’s so cool to read about the same race from two different perspectives! Congrats Scott on AG placing.
@chris_in_cal Re: other racers running start and stop. I have the worst luck with running races stuck next to a 12 year old boy. Apparently my 51 year old steady pace is about the same as the average pace of a young boy, and most young boys run like hell but have no stamina. So... thup thup thup thup thup coming up behind me, boy flies past, I can hear his breath getting raggedy, about fifty meters ahead of me he stops dead exactly in my path. Usually on a tight curve. I swerve around him and pass. Process repeats. I swear I have made more PRs trying to GET THE HECK AWAY from a child runner. I love these kids, love that they run, but they are exhausting to get stuck next to.9 -
Only three runs this week when I had been hoping for four. But tonights 8km was a couple of minutes faster than last weeks and had one less walk interval.
Next week calls for for an 8km with only one walk interval but I am tempted to do 9km with 2/3 intervals. The goal remains 10km without injury before christmas
Goal for October:
1. 15runs.......9
2. 80km.........51km
3. 8km long...Done 12 Oct
4. PB 5km......Done 5 Oct
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Saturday got out to WC Johnson for what was planned to be 5 miles on trails. The ground is really hard and dry, though, and both my husband and I are still not 100% after our timed race, and the many uneven ruts were making our knees and ankles hurt. So we ran one loop of the trails then finished on paved paths.
We saw a sad but also funny scene in the parking lot. As we were headed out to the trails, there was a big group of high school boys clustered around a truck, discussing something in an animated fashion. We were sort of paying attention to them because it wasn’t clear what the situation was - looked like a fight might break out, or maybe someone was upset over car trouble. As we left, one of the boys also split from the group and headed down the trails in front of us, shouting complaints at the top of his lungs. We only caught part of it. “I can’t believe I’m stuck doing this - it’s Saturday night! I could be at a restaurant, I could be at a movie right now. SOME PEOPLE GO BOWLING ON SATURDAY NIGHTS!!!!”
Needless to say after this declaration we were cracking up, but also more perplexed than ever. Well... at the first sitting area with benches along the boardwalk, the solution to the mystery was revealed. A girl. A tearful, hysterical girl, having a fight with another boy of the same age who had just given up on life and was sitting slumped with his head in his hands while the girl yelled at him. The boy from the parking lot had clearly been deputized to make peace so that the slumped boy could go with them wherever the rest of the boys were headed. As we passed, the tearful girl said, “I don’t trust you to go with them, I don’t trust you out of my sight,” and the deputized boy said, “If you feel that way, why are you even together?” Preach, bro. Very very glad not to be 17 anymore!7 -
PastorVincent wrote: »PastorVincent wrote: »Running by feel...Once you lock in a steady cycle of movements your body automatically optimizes the energy flows, the movements and so on....
I really do appreciate this group. Y'all are all such an inspiration. I'm a complete newbie...still working on C25K (and right on schedule)...but I've been thinking about cadence a lot, since I read somewhere that people should run at 180. Is that a hard-and-fast rule? What is a good way to find out what my cadence is? And how do I improve it?
To get your cadence without the help of technology (like a foot pod), you need to count how many strides you take while timing yourself. If you count say 90 strides in 30 seconds, that would be 180 strides per minute.
It would be best to do this several times and average the results.
No. The 180 "rule" is not a rule at all. It is, however, an often greatly abused stat. I would not worry about it in your case. You are still early in the c25k training. Focus on your form, and completing the workouts. Good form and consistent workouts will improve all your stats with time, so that is where you should apply your focus.
Thanks for the encouragement. Mostly I have been concentrating on my posture (trying to keep face forward, not down), on how to land on my midfoot, and on my breathing (four breaths in/four out in time with my feet)... oh, also, on trying to make sure my shoulders are not too tight. I feel like my brain is pretty busy now as it is, so I'm glad to hear your advice on this.2 -
rheddmobile wrote: »@chris_in_cal Re: other racers running start and stop. I have the worst luck with running races stuck next to a 12 year old boy.
I really appreciate you understanding what I was ranting about. I too have had the 'kid' sprint/pass/stop thing. The main person I was reflecting on was a 60 year old man/child. Here's to keeping focus and having good runs. 🍺
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8.15 today
50.6/72-90 miles4 -
I couldn't agree more @chris_in_cal and @rheddmobile and that clomp, clomp of the teenager on the park run I do only to pass him before the clomp, clomp returns 60 seconds later, time after time after time...
You really have got a lot going on @durhammfp, not sure how you land mid-foot? I cannot do 4 step breathing at this stage though I have tried. Maybe this will come eventually.1 -
10.57 miles today
I set out to do 18-20, but decided to quit when I got bored. It was locally around a 1/2 mile loop. I kept it slow since I planned on doing more distance, but just couldn't mentally keep it up.
Thank you for all the comments on my pity party from yesterday. I'm not totally over it, but I do feel better today.7 -
Regarding people who pass you and slow down or stop...
I may or may not have dramatically run *almost* into someone who did this. Fly past them close enough to a collision that it looks like you can't help it, they notice they're in your way, and it doesn't slow you down too much. Some sort of exclamation like "Whoa! Don't stop in front of people like that!" as you disappear ahead of them may be an appropriate addition.
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I don't think I'll be making goal this month, due to taking extra recovery for my quad. It was worth it though.
October goal 100 miles
Upcoming races:
Oct. 26 - Botanical Autumn 5k
Oct. 27 - Lublin Half Marathon
Today's 6k run felt great. I had to sprint back home (with kiddo on her bike), because we got to school and realized she forgot her entire bookbag and was now going to be late. After she was dropped off, I did slow down, but was still comfortable at a slightly faster pace and just went with it. I'll credit Saturday's harder effort on the 5k. I'm feeling kinda nervous and undertrained for the half this weekend, but I'm probably actually just fine. Goal is to finish feeling good, and be able to keep running next week.4 -
Ok my take on the people running past you then stopping thing....
This isn't actually people trying to annoy you on purpose, or target you, or fly on your race. It's called the Galloway run-walk-run method and is widely used by thousands and thousands of people, including myself, who find that it allows them to continue to run when they otherwise would not be able to. It is NOT personal, and they are NOT doing it just to piss you off. While a few may lack the manners and/or knowledge of race etiquette to realise they may be annoying other runners by slowing down in front of them, most will be wearing a sign on their back or T-shirt or something to notify others that they run-walk-run, and as well as staying to one side will usually raise their hand to show their intention to slow down before they do so.
I've never raced anywhere where the path was so narrow everyone had to run right in each others' tracks, so maybe that's why I don't get exactly why anyone would be right behind someone and likely to crash into them if they slow down anyway, but if I do ever find myself in that situation I will try to remember how much I'm going to piss everyone else off by targeting them. Because of course, I'm not just another runner doing my own thing and minding my own business :-)
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October Goal 100 miles
October 2 – 5.18 miles
October 4 – 10.7 miles
October 7 – 4.01 miles
October 8 – 4.51 miles
October 9 – 5 miles
October 11 – 12 miles
October 14 – 5.16 miles
October 16 – 5.01 miles
October 18 – 9.08 miles
October 19 – 4.0 miles
Total – 64.65 miles
My Garmin struggled as much as I did this morning. It never did pick up a signal during the run. I enjoyed reading all the race reports from the weekend. Well done everyone!
@T1DCarnivoreRunner – I’m a slower runner also and it is easy to get discouraged when others are able to go faster with seemingly less effort or make improvements on their times. I try. I really do. It’s not from lack of wanting to go faster…sigh. Anyway, when I’m in the I’m-so-slow-I-should-probably-quit mind frame, I step back from races and running with others and just do my own thing. I don’t look at the pace on my watch, just the distance. That way, there is not comparing and coming up short.
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As I am at a slow pace I have to ignore the quicker runners @Teresa502 though my first runs started too quickly following others. I have generally found a pace now. The tough times are when I am on a solo run and someone comes past me and my competitive nature kicks in and wants me to chase them down.
Now to sort out why I get a pain in my shoulder as soon as I start running.
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eleanorhawkins wrote: »Ok my take on the people running past you then stopping thing....
This isn't actually people trying to annoy you on purpose, or target you, or fly on your race. It's called the Galloway run-walk-run method and is widely used by thousands and thousands of people, including myself, who find that it allows them to continue to run when they otherwise would not be able to. It is NOT personal, and they are NOT doing it just to piss you off. While a few may lack the manners and/or knowledge of race etiquette to realise they may be annoying other runners by slowing down in front of them, most will be wearing a sign on their back or T-shirt or something to notify others that they run-walk-run, and as well as staying to one side will usually raise their hand to show their intention to slow down before they do so.
I've never raced anywhere where the path was so narrow everyone had to run right in each others' tracks, so maybe that's why I don't get exactly why anyone would be right behind someone and likely to crash into them if they slow down anyway, but if I do ever find myself in that situation I will try to remember how much I'm going to piss everyone else off by targeting them. Because of course, I'm not just another runner doing my own thing and minding my own business :-)
Whether it's intentional or not, persistently rude behavior is still persistently rude behavior. I haven't run races where you have to squeeze to pass people, but I have run races where people are packed close enough for portions that you really do need to signal and step to the side when you slow down or risk getting run into. I don't think anyone is saying that you can't use someone else to help keep pace, or that you shouldn't do run/walk intervals, just that you should be aware of the personal space of those around you if you do. Since you're aware of the etiquette, I'd bet you're not pissing anyone off.
That said, I've definitely been guilty of being that obliviously rude person in the past - I bet all of us have at one point or another in our lives. It really stinks (especially since I have social anxiety so the very idea of being rude on accident or not is horrifying to me) but it's part of being a human who lives around other humans, and hopefully I've learned from it.6 -
@polskagirl01 congrats on your 5k trail race, and your kids on their races.
Congrats on your AG place @Scott6255! Great job in spite of the bad weather.
@Lazy_Bones_85 congrats on your race and place as well!
@T1DCarnivoreRunner, I agree with @rheddmobile, it's super impressive what you accomplish with the health issues you deal with. Or at all - running all those marathons. I hear the frustration though. I really struggle with why I can't seem to get faster - and why other people I know who don't seem as outwardly fit or who don't train as hard beat me so easily. It's hard.
@ContraryMaryMary congrats on your half! Nice job overcoming your late start and fatigue to get it done 4 seconds faster than last year.
Date :::: Miles :::: Cumulative
10/01/19 :::: 4.8 :::: 4.8
10/02/19 :::: 3.0 :::: 7.8
10/03/19 :::: 0.0 :::: 7.8
10/04/19 :::: 3.1 :::: 10.8
10/05/19 :::: 10.1 :::: 21.0
10/06/19 :::: 1.0 :::: 22.0
10/07/19 :::: 2.7 :::: 24.7
10/08/19 :::: 3.4 :::: 28.1
10/09/19 :::: 3.2 :::: 31.2
10/10/19 :::: 2.2 :::: 33.4
10/11/19 :::: 0.0 :::: 33.4
10/12/19 :::: 5.1 :::: 38.5
10/13/19 :::: 3.2 :::: 41.7
10/14/19 :::: 3.4 :::: 45.1
10/15/19 :::: 0.0 :::: 45.1
10/16/19 :::: 3.0 :::: 48.1
10/17/19 :::: 0.0 :::: 48.1
10/18/19 :::: 1.2 :::: 49.3
10/19/19 :::: 13.2 :::: 62.5
10/20/19 :::: 13.3 :::: 75.8
Race report (brief): Kansas City Half Marathon and Des Moines Half Marathon for the I-35 Challenge
Saturday: This was the race I was targeting for a PR attempt and focused on training for this summer/fall. It started at 7 am in the dark and chilly rain. My hotel was really close so it was convenient to just walk over last minute, but the corrals were very congested and many of us were on the wrong side of the barrier without realizing it until too late, so there was time wasted in filing through small openings in the fences to get in. I ended up not making it up to the pace lineup or pace group I was targeting so I was on my own for pacing. There were some cool fireworks for the start and then we were off. I started with a decent first 3 miles, but the hills got to me more than I anticipated. I tried to make up time on the downhill segments and there were a few long ones that helped with that. Mile 7 particularly, which was my fastest mile. The rain kept up lightly for a while and it got harder for a while before stopping. My legs didn't feel great with the hills and the cold/damp, my feet felt wet and miserable, and I was pretty sure by midway that I wouldn't make my goal time but I tried really hard not to give up. Miles 10-12 ish kept going uphill and then the end was mercifully downhill. I pushed hard to the finish and ended up with a 2:12 which was my second best half marathon time. I keep thinking back about how I could have done better and gotten under 2:10 for the PR I wanted and it’s haunting me a little, but that’s the way it goes.
Sunday: This was the race I intended to just survive. It started at 8 am and it was a beautiful crisp fall day. Again, my hotel was close – no complaints about logistics for either race which is great. I felt tired and sore but had no expectations so it was a totally different feel from the day before. I was so excited to have family there to see me race! My cousins and uncle were right at the start in a parking ramp overlooking the start line and it was so fun to have them cheer and send me off. I started running with two friends from my run group that were also doing the challenge (one doing the two HMs, the other a full and a half, and our third friend lined up farther back doing two fulls). We all decided to just see how it felt and either speed up or drop back as needed, but we mostly ran the whole thing together, which was fun. We saw my cousins and uncle again at mile 2 and I was able to run over and give them hugs. The course was very nice, it was flat and had some pretty areas with great views of downtown Des Moines. It’s really a shame this course and day wasn’t first for my PR attempt. There were some great bands along the course and a lot of water and some food support (orange slices, gels, gummy bears, I got an M&M bag once). Not a lot of crowd support in the park sections, but it was solid enough with runners that it didn’t feel desolate. We managed a pretty even pace throughout, about 11:12 average. One of my friends had dropped back a little bit towards the end and the other one and I gave it as much final push as we could to beat the 2:30 pace group that had gone past us at one point and then we got back in front of again. My cousins, uncle, niece and great-niece surprised me by being between mile 12 and 13 and then they were all at the finish with my mom and sister. So fun to have that support! We kicked it as best we could as we turned in to the last .1 miles and finished at 2:28.
Overall, it was a fun weekend. It’s frustrating to train hard and not get the goal I wanted but I pushed myself to complete a challenge and I’m happy I was able to do it as well as I did. My friends were amazing and strong in completing their challenges - especially impressed with our friend who did the full-full. She is a warrior. The bonus of having my family there in Des Moines was fantastic and it made it a special day.
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@katharmonic great race report(s)! Congratulations on completing the two HMs back-to-back challenge. That takes a lot of physical and mental strength to get through. And you even came very close to getting a PR in the first one. You are a beast!!1
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Two more runs under my belt this week and somehow I’m still on track for my monthly goal! Admittedly I think I lowered it earlier in the month, but I’ll still count it as a win if I can come in on target. I need at least 55.38 miles to top my monthly distance PR for 2019 and right now I’m on track for 61.50.
Anyhow, my last two runs this week were both stand-alones (i.e. not on my way to the gym). On Wednesday I wasn’t feeling well in the morning but made it out for 3.75 in the evening. Thursday was errands with mom and then catching up on work, then Saturday and Sunday I did a bunch of yard work in the mornings. I skipped my planned run on Saturday but made it for 6.15 miles yesterday. I'd been debating trying for 9 to make up for the Saturday run I skipped, but decided to stick with what I was pretty sure I could do.
I had fairly good weather, though yesterday was a little bit of a drag due to GI rumblings. I came up with a new running slogan: “Running - The Most Fun You Can Have While Desperately Trying Not to Poop Yourself”. I didn’t, thank goodness.
I'm going to have to think about whether I want to run that route again, though - there's construction going on at the 4-5 mile point, which is usually the toughest part of that particular run for me mentally, and having my lovely wide tree-lined paths reduced to sawdust and plastic fences is both no fun to look at and frankly felt a little unsafe. Generally my only safety concerns while running alone are being hit by a cars or bikes, but this was a long-enough isolated stretch that it made me antsy. I was running near sunset too, so that didn't help.
Resting today, then we’ll see how the week goes. I’ve planned four runs: twice to the gym, one stand-alone, and then a 10K Halloween Race on Saturday, first of the three holiday 10Ks I’ve signed up for. I’m hoping to eventually be able to race one of my 10Ks this year, but if all I do is finish them without hurting myself, that’s good too.
QUESTION: For people who try and stick to the 10% increase per week rule, I assume that you don’t count cut-back weeks? That is, if you run 10 miles in week A, then 8 miles in week B, you’d schedule week C as 10% more than week A, correct?
October Total: 39.50 miles
October Goals: Run 60 miles, lift minimum 3x/week, 15 minutes/day of moderate cardio, 15 minutes/day of mobility.
2019 Races! (bold registered)
January 26: Securian 10K, St. Paul, MN Chip time: 1:05:07
February 16: Half Fast 10K DNS - weather
March 23: Hot Dash 5K, Mpls, MN Chip time: 0:28:39 (*PR!)
May 19: Women Run the Cities 5K, Mpls, MN Chip time: 0:33:02
June 8: PHRC Pensieve 10K (virtual)
June 12: ESTRS French 5K, Plymouth, MN DNS - injury
June 29 Lift Bridge 5K, Bayport MN Chip time: 0:32:51
August 3: Beat the Blerch 10K, Carnation, WA
September 2: MDRA Victory Labor Day 5K, Mpls, MN Chip time: 0:33:04
September 8: Sioux Falls Half Marathon, Sioux Falls, SD Chip time: 2:47:13 (in memory of @MobyCarp)
October 5: TCM 10K, St. Paul, MN Canceled - weather
October 6: TCM 10Mi, Minneapolis to St. Paul, MN Chip time: 2:03:31
October 26: Minneapolis Halloween 10K, Mpls, MN
November 28: Turkey Trot St. Paul 10K, St. Paul, MN
December 14: Reindeer Run 10K, Mpls, MN
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I have zero issue with people running and walking and I certainly didn’t take it personal. I also stopped twice to walk and drink my Gatorade during the race for 15 seconds each time but made sure it was at a wide section and I moved all the way to the right. But the race was on a narrow golf cart path, it had rained heavily and there was debris and puddles and narrow tunnels under the roads that led to some areas that were “single file” only. She would get in front of me, then slow to walk and I’d have to run in the puddles. If you know you’re approaching a walk interval and you can see the path is narrow, one should allow the runner to go first so you don’t hold them back in my opinion.
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