Keto made me sick as a dog!

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  • 143tobe
    143tobe Posts: 620 Member
    edited October 2019
    lemurcat2 wrote: »

    Those are likely perfectly good keto macros, especially when you were at a deficit, even though some will claim that lower is necessary (and not like being in ketosis really matters, it's likely just the low carb that makes it more sustainable/reduces hunger for some).

    When I tried it out I looked at a lot of sources and saw that 50 g net was probably ketosis for a reasonably active person of my size. I tried for 50 g total, found it impossible (I eat a lot of vegetables), so went with no more than 35 g net, 60 g total, which worked out to about 15% at 1600. Protein at 100 g (or 25%), and then fat at 60%, so same as you.

    I didn't find it difficult, although I missed some of the carbs I'd been eating (like fruit, potatoes, beans and lentils) and consider them healthy, so didn't stick with it (I'd been happy with my diet pre keto, and was just doing it as an experiment). With healthy sources of fat (limiting sat fat) and keeping the carbs mostly non starchy veg plus nuts and seeds and occasional greek yogurt, I found it to be a reasonably healthful way of eating, although more restrictive than my prior way. I added some salt to my diet when first transitioning, and didn't ever feel sick.

    For whatever it's worth, macro percentages don't seem to matter much for me -- I felt find on that diet and have on lower fat diets too.

    Totally agree. I have done every macro combo under the sun and always felt fine. Even did the opposite of keto (80/10/10) and I felt great. I'm a runner so eating 80% carbs totally worked for me when I did it. The only difference between all these other diets and macros for me was that I have only reached my goal weight while in ketosis and it's the only diet I've been able to stick to, and at the same time stray from for a period, but easily transition back to. Oh...and my running has been better than ever. Can't say it's due to keto, more than likely it's my lighter body weight, but I am somewhat amazed that I'm able to run over 2 hours on fat and ketones and afterwards I always seem to have energy to spare. Also ran a 5K recently and ran way faster than my normal pace...but on this I admit, it was probably due to the donut I ate 30 minutes prior. It was awesome. :)

  • NovusDies
    NovusDies Posts: 8,940 Member
    ccrdragon wrote: »
    gemiller87 wrote: »
    mmapags wrote: »
    gemiller87 wrote: »
    I did a short run of "Keto" as part of fasting sugar out of my diet for a month. The first week seemed ok, week two was rough and by end of the third week I was ok. By end of week four I was fine with it. I did reintroduce a more balanced carb intake but remained low sugar. I borrowed a blood glucose monitor from a diabetic family member and found there is notable change and steadiness from the keto platform. Doesn't mean it's the only solution.

    If you weren't low sugar before, don't forget that sugar is one of the most addicting substances in the world and removal of it truly can feel like withdrawal.

    While some people have difficulty moderating sugar, calling it one of the most addicting substances in the world is just specious, false hyperbole.

    Unfortunately science in general disagrees with you even though health people definitely stretch the truth.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23719144
    https://www.healthline.com/health/food-nutrition/experts-is-sugar-addictive-drug
    https://www.newhallhospital.co.uk/news/is-sugar-more-addictive-than-cocaine
    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/281920449_Is_sugar_more_addictive_than_cocaine

    Now if you're referring to the bodies need for it to grow like a narcotic to keep the same "high" is a different argument and obviously the "damaging side" of addiction is far from comparable and grossly exaggerated to a legit drug addiction, but it's addictive tendencies are stronger than you are willing to admit.

    Sugar actives the brains reward system like a drug releasing dopamine. In this regard the body does grow its "need" of sugar for the dopamine release, but its not a functional requirement for bodily systems like some other drug addictions. The chemical response to sugar is one of the reasons sugary snacks are closely tied to emotional eating, they release the drug effect making it a soothing response.

    It's important to acknowledge also that a change in your blood sugar patterns affects how you feel, so a big change in sugar intake will change how you you feel straight up.

    The problem with trying to link a dopamine response to sugar being addictive is that there are literally hundreds of things that humans come into contact with on a daily basis that also cause a dopamine response in the brain. Just to name a few of them: petting a puppy, laughing, holding a baby, a lover's touch, seeing something that makes you happy, etc and so-on. Do you think we are addicted to all of these things as well (and if we are, should we give them up)?

    Right and food can be used to add to the pleasure of a holiday, vacation, or special occasion. The problem is that we should not live or lives as though it is a vacation just like we can't do nothing all day but pet a puppy.

    I am guilty of trying to make an ordinary weekend "special" with food and I gained weight because of it. It was a blind spot like I am sure it is for many people.

    Choosing high calorie food is a learned habit. Being sedentary is a learned habit. I think the reason why people jump to believing it is an addiction because they can be hard to break.

    Where the pleasure center can really bite a person, I believe, is by going into a really highly food restrictive diet. If you deny yourself everything you enjoy it may backfire on you.
  • NovusDies
    NovusDies Posts: 8,940 Member
    The french fries are a mystery. The pizza sauce has hidden sugar in it!!

  • Cat_A_89
    Cat_A_89 Posts: 93 Member
    I tried it and didnt lose weight even being in a calorie deficit. It just wasnt for me.
  • candylilacs
    candylilacs Posts: 614 Member
    It's just not for everyone. :|
  • cheryldumais
    cheryldumais Posts: 1,907 Member
    gemiller87 wrote: »
    NovusDies wrote: »
    Rat study. The problem is the effect that pure sugar might have on a rat may not translate to having sugar as part of meal in humans.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6234835/ if you'd like to read more about its relation to human biology direct from the US Library of Medicine rather than just say "rats mean its invalid"... Either way i'm done with this discussion. Some of you are so set on "fake news" because of some exaggerated statements you are unwilling to look for the grains of truth in it.

    Personally I found the last study you linked incredibly interesting since they used Saccharine instead of sugar in the test. Thank you so much for sharing this. I've been struggling in maintenance and wondered if my sugar substitutes had anything to do with it. I just want to mention that I use them excessively not just occasionally which likely wouldn't be a problem. It does answer the question I had about whether it was affecting my efforts to relose about 15 pounds. The more I eat of them the more I crave despite the intestinal upset. Might need to cut them out for a while.
  • LIFOtheparty
    LIFOtheparty Posts: 24 Member
    MikePTY wrote: »
    What you are describing is what is commonly referred to as the "Keto Flu". It comes from an electrolyte imbalance that comes from the drastic cut in carbs. This can sometimes be lessened by increasing electrolyte intake. The symptoms last a couple of days to a couple of weeks, and then it balances itself out.

    However there is no reason to put yourself through that for weight loss, as weight loss comes from a calorie deficit, and you can still eat plenty of carbs and lose weight. I've lost 40 pounds, at times eating 300+ grams of carbs per day.

    I enjoy how we basically said the same thing in our comments, but I ended up with 10 people disagreeing with me LOL.
  • Katmary71
    Katmary71 Posts: 7,078 Member
    I tried low carb but a lot of fat makes me feel sick, I don't have a gallbladder so that could be why. I still mostly eat non starchy veg but the only fat I eat is a little olive oil or milk with fat. Anything fried, fatty meat, and oily food makes me feel awful.

    On the topic of sugar, I always drank diet soda so I've never just consumed straight sugar. I do crave sugary foods and am awful at moderating them so I don't keep them in the house. They do have fat too though I have to watch it with light ice cream as well. I personally feel it's more mental, at least in my case. I was dependent on a painkiller from long-term use and on nicotine, I've never physically shook or threw up from sugar withdrawal as I did coming off them.
  • kshama2001
    kshama2001 Posts: 28,052 Member
    kshama2001 wrote: »
    I love fat, but too much of it and I feel nauseous.

    I like moderate carbs, fat, and protein, so have no interest in trying keto.

    I may do an experiment with limiting added sugar for a month just to be able to comment on statements like this from my own n=1:
    gemiller87 wrote: »
    ...If you weren't low sugar before, don't forget that sugar is one of the most addicting substances in the world and removal of it truly can feel like withdrawal.

    I have started the limiting added sugar for a month experiment.

    10/23: 85 g
    10/24: 48 g
    10/25: 26 g

    My goal is to keep to the WHO recommendations of no more than 5% added sugar.

    Others in the challenge have their own goals: https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10769530/30-day-logging-limiting-added-sugar-challenge/p1
  • amusedmonkey
    amusedmonkey Posts: 10,330 Member
    It wasn't for me either. I did have some digestive issues (not as violent as yours), but that wasn't the worst of it. I was constantly hungry and tired, black hole kind of hungry. I was miserable and my anxiety and depression reached levels I had never experienced before. That was the worst of it. I don't want to ever feel like that again if I can help it.
  • iheartmyyorkie
    iheartmyyorkie Posts: 163 Member
    I'm wanting to post a gif of Brian from the Family Guy upchucking. But the mods would throw me in jail.
  • psuLemon
    psuLemon Posts: 38,427 MFP Moderator
    Guys, please do not go down this route of sugar addiction. If you want to have that conversation, create another thread please.

  • ThinnerLiz
    ThinnerLiz Posts: 55 Member
    I have cycled in and out of Keto, and it's always the same; I feel great, no cravings, sleep well, BUT, it messes with my electrolytes! A lot of Keto groups will tell you not to drink all the water you want (because it makes you thirsty), and to add additional sodium and potassium to your diet.
    Truth be told, I felt much better on a low carb--but not Keto-- way of eating, and consistently getting 20 or fewer net carbs per day was making me miserable with no appreciable benefits. I was losing weight my way, and feeling terrific---and occasionally would go into Keto due to a low carb day or lots of exercise, or a long overnight fast.

    Unless there is a medical reason to do Keto, I think lowering carbs overall gives one the same benefits without having to guzzle pickle juice and avoid a slice of apple in favor of the bit of carbs found in a tablespoon of ketchup. For me, it's no way to live. More power to those it works for, but it's too restrictive for me, and there is absolutely no reason for me to eat that way.
  • ThinnerLiz
    ThinnerLiz Posts: 55 Member
    PS: The needing to eat a lot of salt continues with Keto. You don't "acclimate" to it eventually. I got tired of constant electrolyte headaches and peeing my brains out unless I was eating 3,500 mg of salt a day. For me, that didn't seem healthy. Plus, I enjoy food. A lot of the "low carb substitute" frankenfoods aren't healthy to me. I avoid processed stuff. I see nothing wrong with adding in plenty of non-starchy veggies, and keeping the carbs to under 100 total per day. Not keto, but a real improvement.
  • whitpauly
    whitpauly Posts: 1,483 Member
    iheartmyyorkie wrote: »
    I'm wanting to post a gif of Brian from the Family Guy upchucking. But the mods would throw me in jail.

    Isn't that the episode when he makes out with Quagmire's dad then finds out the she is a he? Best episode ever!!😂🤣
  • Psychgrrl
    Psychgrrl Posts: 3,177 Member
    I’m not the biggest fan of keto, but is it possible you had a touch of the flu or food poisoning that had the bad timing to occur as you started your new way of eating?
  • trailrunner64
    trailrunner64 Posts: 14 Member
    I is wrong to call Keto a fad. It has been around since around 1920 when it was developed to treat seizures (before we had seizure medications) and is still used to treat that. Furthermore there is an increased body of research that show the benefit of low carb and higher fat/protein. Low carb diet was described in the 19th century by Banting (1860) and Dr. Osler (of Johns Hopkins).

    Cutting down carbs and only eating three meals a will make a significant difference not only on weight - but also on metabolic health. Being thin on the outside does not equal good health.

    Many people have difficulty cutting down carbs because it is an addictive substance (well supported scientifically).

    I can highly recommend Gary Taubes book "good calories - bad calories"

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