Starting with rowing exercise
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I have a random question: I believe my technique might be a bit off in terms of my hand/arm movement because whenever I row for more than 20 minutes I usually end up with blisters around my inner thumb area, even when wearing gloves... I guess I rotate my hands in their grip, or let the handle slide and turn; should I keep my hands fixed? Thanks for the tips
@MikePfirrman's advice is perfect.
Flywheel/water style single handle rowing machine, or on-water rowing shell, you don't grip the handle, just hook fingers around it with the last couple of finger joints, relaxed as that hand-shape allows. On the drive (push/pull part of the stroke), the thumb base shouldn't even be in contact with the rowing machine handle. Ditto on the recovery phase, since the flywheel pulls the handle back toward it as you body motion up the slide allows it to do so.
Think of it as guiding the handle, not gripping it. (One of my coaches used to say: "Don't hold the handle so tight that oar juice squirts out the end!"
).
In on-water rowing, especially sculling (two oars per person), the thumb has a job, but it isn't the thumb-base area. Sculling, the fingertip thumb pad presses outward lightly on the end of the oar handle. Sweep (one oar per person), the thumb of the inside hand (one closest to oar blade) has a role in feathering/squaring the blade, but it's still more a fingertip thing, not a web thing.
Beginning sculler here (although former competitive collegiant rower...but decades ago...obviously sweep).
Light hands are my biggest issue. Catch way too hard in a scull (with wrists instead of fingertips). Had some coaching and everything else looking good. Although at first dug too much with port oar...i was told that's common for former sweep starboards....thats mostly fixed. Working on light hands/fingertips.
Underestimated how much I'd like it though. But I'm too wimpy for late fall/winter rowing, so going to get back to it in spring/summer.
I'd literally rather be put on a medieval rack than sit on an erg.
But excited to get back out there next year.2 -
jhanleybrown wrote: »I have a random question: I believe my technique might be a bit off in terms of my hand/arm movement because whenever I row for more than 20 minutes I usually end up with blisters around my inner thumb area, even when wearing gloves... I guess I rotate my hands in their grip, or let the handle slide and turn; should I keep my hands fixed? Thanks for the tips
@MikePfirrman's advice is perfect.
Flywheel/water style single handle rowing machine, or on-water rowing shell, you don't grip the handle, just hook fingers around it with the last couple of finger joints, relaxed as that hand-shape allows. On the drive (push/pull part of the stroke), the thumb base shouldn't even be in contact with the rowing machine handle. Ditto on the recovery phase, since the flywheel pulls the handle back toward it as you body motion up the slide allows it to do so.
Think of it as guiding the handle, not gripping it. (One of my coaches used to say: "Don't hold the handle so tight that oar juice squirts out the end!" ).
In on-water rowing, especially sculling (two oars per person), the thumb has a job, but it isn't the thumb-base area. Sculling, the fingertip thumb pad presses outward lightly on the end of the oar handle. Sweep (one oar per person), the thumb of the inside hand (one closest to oar blade) has a role in feathering/squaring the blade, but it's still more a fingertip thing, not a web thing.
Beginning sculler here (although former competitive collegiant rower...but decades ago...obviously sweep).
Light hands are my biggest issue. Catch way too hard in a scull (with wrists instead of fingertips). Had some coaching and everything else looking good. Although at first dug too much with port oar...i was told that's common for former sweep starboards....thats mostly fixed. Working on light hands/fingertips.
Underestimated how much I'd like it though. But I'm too wimpy for late fall/winter rowing, so going to get back to it in spring/summer.
I'd literally rather be put on a medieval rack than sit on an erg.
But excited to get back out there next year.
What helped me most to remedy over-gripping sculls was a Craftsbury coach who suggested completely straightening/relaxing fingers on every recovery (as a drill), pretty much letting friction and thumb pads carry the handle.
Obviously, to try this, you need already to have fairly confident handle control, and water conditions/core stability that won't let the blades catch and swim you - maybe intermediate-ish?
Me, I'm old (64 in a couple weeks): Need to erg in off-season, or there's too much rebuild work come on-water season. Don't love to erg, though.0 -
I've done more or less the same drill, though I was in a double or a quad at the time. Another thing that helps me with soft/light hands is visualizing my hands as if they were Lego hands, as suggested by one of the people who taught me how to row and gave me more or less a private sculling lesson the first time I rowed in a single. The hands on Lego figurines are open and thus can't grip something hard.jhanleybrown wrote: »I have a random question: I believe my technique might be a bit off in terms of my hand/arm movement because whenever I row for more than 20 minutes I usually end up with blisters around my inner thumb area, even when wearing gloves... I guess I rotate my hands in their grip, or let the handle slide and turn; should I keep my hands fixed? Thanks for the tips
@MikePfirrman's advice is perfect.
Flywheel/water style single handle rowing machine, or on-water rowing shell, you don't grip the handle, just hook fingers around it with the last couple of finger joints, relaxed as that hand-shape allows. On the drive (push/pull part of the stroke), the thumb base shouldn't even be in contact with the rowing machine handle. Ditto on the recovery phase, since the flywheel pulls the handle back toward it as you body motion up the slide allows it to do so.
Think of it as guiding the handle, not gripping it. (One of my coaches used to say: "Don't hold the handle so tight that oar juice squirts out the end!" ).
In on-water rowing, especially sculling (two oars per person), the thumb has a job, but it isn't the thumb-base area. Sculling, the fingertip thumb pad presses outward lightly on the end of the oar handle. Sweep (one oar per person), the thumb of the inside hand (one closest to oar blade) has a role in feathering/squaring the blade, but it's still more a fingertip thing, not a web thing.
Beginning sculler here (although former competitive collegiant rower...but decades ago...obviously sweep).
Light hands are my biggest issue. Catch way too hard in a scull (with wrists instead of fingertips). Had some coaching and everything else looking good. Although at first dug too much with port oar...i was told that's common for former sweep starboards....thats mostly fixed. Working on light hands/fingertips.
Underestimated how much I'd like it though. But I'm too wimpy for late fall/winter rowing, so going to get back to it in spring/summer.
I'd literally rather be put on a medieval rack than sit on an erg.
But excited to get back out there next year.
What helped me most to remedy over-gripping sculls was a Craftsbury coach who suggested completely straightening/relaxing fingers on every recovery (as a drill), pretty much letting friction and thumb pads carry the handle.
Obviously, to try this, you need already to have fairly confident handle control, and water conditions/core stability that won't let the blades catch and swim you - maybe intermediate-ish?
Me, I'm old (64 in a couple weeks): Need to erg in off-season, or there's too much rebuild work come on-water season. Don't love to erg, though.1 -
Amazing reads in here. I agree you get a full body work out that is unique to rowing!
Yes I also believe in more Zen-ish concepts to row. Feel the pull, feel the water, feel the boat, feel the water and become that flow.1 -
Thank you ANNPT 7 for your tips and tricks much apprees h!1
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I row a whitewater raft. Your "zen place" may be attainable. Whitewater or not, there's simply nothing more worth doing than simply messing about in boats. (Thank you mister Grahame).
Indoor rowing is different from rowing the boat you may be thinking about. Like a raft, a wherry or pram doesn't have a sliding seat. I think you can use a rowing machine as intended to increase your performance rowing a boat without a sliding seat. I ALSO think there may be a place for "doing it wrong" to simulate rowing a fully loaded gear boat through challenging water if that's what you do or at least to work on the motions you encounter rowing your boat.
As for rowing shells, I am kind of looking forward to thinking about dedicating some time to that when I retire. For now, I like rafts and kayaks and getting places with some gradient and some canyons.
Kayaking on the river is definitely a happy place for me! Endless sky, rock walls on either side, trees, animals of all types (we went out last week, 46*f water, brrrr! and watched deer come barreling down the steep rocky mtn, a huge flock of turkeys, a fox, a duck, a heron, the scent of a skunk (no visual though), etc.) Especially in the off season it is beautifully peaceful... I can get lost in my thoughts, nature watch, if I am on my SUP I will lay back and nap occasionally while tethered to my husband’s Jon boat (profile pic) or just watch the endless clouds go by. Deep sigh of contentment. We’ll make a day of it in the summers!
So I guess I say that to comment that not all rowing (or paddling) is created equal. I will power through some stretches just to do it (raced the jon boat back to the dock last week - I won
) but for the most part it’s a leisurely stroll up and down the stretch of slackwater we frequent.
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Thank you, OP, for starting this thread, and veterans for your advice. I've been thinking about trying the C2 at my gym for a while, but this finally gave me the final push to give it a try (after reading this and the other linked thread and watching videos/reading up on form).
My question is how do you track calories for the exercise? Is it somewhat pace-driven (I noticed MFP has different levels of intensity when I went to log my first session yesterday), or do you just figure out how you relate to the number given by the monitor over time? Any personal experience/recommendations re: calorie tracking accuracy is appreciated, thank you in advance!1 -
MelodiousMermaid wrote: »Thank you, OP, for starting this thread, and veterans for your advice. I've been thinking about trying the C2 at my gym for a while, but this finally gave me the final push to give it a try (after reading this and the other linked thread and watching videos/reading up on form).
My question is how do you track calories for the exercise? Is it somewhat pace-driven (I noticed MFP has different levels of intensity when I went to log my first session yesterday), or do you just figure out how you relate to the number given by the monitor over time? Any personal experience/recommendations re: calorie tracking accuracy is appreciated, thank you in advance!
This is actually very easy to do. There are instructions and a calculator on concept 2's website - https://www.concept2.com/indoor-rowers/training/calculators/calorie-calculator . In short, from the main menu go to memory and then find your session. Select it via the magnifier icon and click the units putting until you see "calories" displayed (as opposed to your 500m split or watts). Take a picture of the screen or write down the average calories per hour. Then go to the link that I posted, fill in the fields on the right, and there are your calories.
It's pretty accurate from what I can tell. I suspect that that is because the main goal of the research that was done into researching the calorie expenditure was to make sure that athletes are fueling properly.4 -
MelodiousMermaid wrote: »Thank you, OP, for starting this thread, and veterans for your advice. I've been thinking about trying the C2 at my gym for a while, but this finally gave me the final push to give it a try (after reading this and the other linked thread and watching videos/reading up on form).
My question is how do you track calories for the exercise? Is it somewhat pace-driven (I noticed MFP has different levels of intensity when I went to log my first session yesterday), or do you just figure out how you relate to the number given by the monitor over time? Any personal experience/recommendations re: calorie tracking accuracy is appreciated, thank you in advance!
This is actually very easy to do. There are instructions and a calculator on concept 2's website - https://www.concept2.com/indoor-rowers/training/calculators/calorie-calculator . In short, from the main menu go to memory and then find your session. Select it via the magnifier icon and click the units putting until you see "calories" displayed (as opposed to your 500m split or watts). Take a picture of the screen or write down the average calories per hour. Then go to the link that I posted, fill in the fields on the right, and there are your calories.
It's pretty accurate from what I can tell. I suspect that that is because the main goal of the research that was done into researching the calorie expenditure was to make sure that athletes are fueling properly.
I also think it’s because of the accuracy of the power measurements. To me that is the thing that really makes the C2 unique. Without the PMS, it’s just a ... water rower. 😂😂😂😂1 -
MelodiousMermaid wrote: »Thank you, OP, for starting this thread, and veterans for your advice. I've been thinking about trying the C2 at my gym for a while, but this finally gave me the final push to give it a try (after reading this and the other linked thread and watching videos/reading up on form).
My question is how do you track calories for the exercise? Is it somewhat pace-driven (I noticed MFP has different levels of intensity when I went to log my first session yesterday), or do you just figure out how you relate to the number given by the monitor over time? Any personal experience/recommendations re: calorie tracking accuracy is appreciated, thank you in advance!
This is actually very easy to do. There are instructions and a calculator on concept 2's website - https://www.concept2.com/indoor-rowers/training/calculators/calorie-calculator . In short, from the main menu go to memory and then find your session. Select it via the magnifier icon and click the units putting until you see "calories" displayed (as opposed to your 500m split or watts). Take a picture of the screen or write down the average calories per hour. Then go to the link that I posted, fill in the fields on the right, and there are your calories.
It's pretty accurate from what I can tell. I suspect that that is because the main goal of the research that was done into researching the calorie expenditure was to make sure that athletes are fueling properly.
I also think it’s because of the accuracy of the power measurements. To me that is the thing that really makes the C2 unique. Without the PMS, it’s just a ... water rower. 😂😂😂😂
Yeah it's cyclical. If you want elite rowers, clubs, and national sports bodies to buy your product, you do things like making power measurements accurate and the experience replicable across machines. They're dominant for a reason, and it's not just because they make good oars as well.1 -
Good tidings MFP!
I had a vision of Zen and often close my eyes and go to my Zen spot. Let me tell you about it...
It's a dock that walks out to a misty lake and at the end of the dock is a simple wooden row boat as it cradles and rocks with the waters slow tide
Since then I've taken up rowing in the gym to be fit for a possible row on the North Saskatchewan River this sprinf/summer season.
What are some tips for rowing you may have? 😎
Workouts insights and stories of your own rowing accomplishments are welcome.
Hi there, we used to go up to Emma Lake every year camping. We did the Emma Lake/Christopher Lake/Grey Owl's Cabin one year canoeing and portaging all in one day. Portaging was hard yakker but the whole experience was great fun! Hope you get to fulfil your plans😊
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If the rowing machine you're using is a Concept 2, or another single-handle flywheel-type (or water tank) machine, the introductory information on the Concept 2 web site is an excellent source, especially the beginner videos:
https://www.concept2.com/indoor-rowers/training
If the machine you're using is an actual Concept 2, move the damper setting from 10 to around 5 (for men) or 3 (for women), for starters. It isn't resistance, so don't use it that way.
There has also been another recent thread where there was discussion of beginning rowing on a machine, from a pretty technical perspective:
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10769940/getting-started-with-indoor-rowing
Your rowing goals sound different from mine. I've been rowing for about 17 years now (started in my mid 40s, now almost 64), on water when I can, on a machine (Concept 2 normally) when I must. (My river freezes in Winter.) I belong to a rowing club, where I keep my single (one rower) and double (two rowers), and I sometimes also row the club's quads (four rowers, with or without a coxswain).
When I'm coaching people, I sometimes encourage them via Zen-ish concepts (feel the boat, be your rowing partner, let bad strokes go, relax), but it's also a pure fact that if you're going for speed or efficient distance, this is a highly technical sport that can be an intense cardiovascular and even muscular workout. It can also be an nice, easy paddle on a beautiful day.
Rowing is a great sport: Hope you enjoy it!
Wow! Thank you so much for everyone's EXPERTISE 💗 LETS KEEP this thread rowing as well!!
More stories more! More!!! 😄😃💙1 -
peanutflower wrote: »Rowing is the best full body exercise you can do. It's sadly overlooked in gyms and usually done incorrectly. I built myself a tiny house in Victoria BC and had to move way out to the boonies to find a place to put it, and now I'm further from the gym than I would like, but I just bought myself a water rower. if anyone has good suggestions for workout on erg I'd be happy to hear.
Victoria , BC ahh I'm picturing a little foggy lake somewhere enveloped by mountains and the simple soothing swooshing sound of your oars cradling the water 💧
Nicely done! 👍
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Good tidings MFP!
I had a vision of Zen and often close my eyes and go to my Zen spot. Let me tell you about it...
It's a dock that walks out to a misty lake and at the end of the dock is a simple wooden row boat as it cradles and rocks with the waters slow tide
Since then I've taken up rowing in the gym to be fit for a possible row on the North Saskatchewan River this sprinf/summer season.
What are some tips for rowing you may have? 😎
Workouts insights and stories of your own rowing accomplishments are welcome.
This sounds like a very romanticized idea of what rowing is like. I mean I love rowing, but even on the calmest of days (today being an example) what you're talking about other than maybe the water conditions is not my reality. Rowing is a lot harder than it looks and a lot less peaceful in the zen sort of way. A more realistic view would be something along the lines of, "oh wow this boat is very narrow and rather low to the water...oh god I'm tipping from side to side a lot, wait how many things do I need to work on? Everything? Okay then."
It sounds like you're talking about one of these:
vs one of these:
Other things that went through my mind, and sometimes out of my mouth, included, "FFS please don't run into us" (yes I did yell to get the other boat's attention), realizing that we really needed try to be faster than the rest of the boats so we didn't .
Amazing insight and to be honest I think that is what makes rowing so special and diversified. I enjoy the extremely tough days almost competitive within my own limits but yes a zen esque row in a romanticized sort of way can be so peaceful.0 -
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Hi there, we used to go up to Emma Lake every year camping. We did the Emma Lake/Christopher Lake/Grey Owl's Cabin one year canoeing and portaging all in one day. Portaging was hard yakker but the whole experience was great fun! Hope you get to fulfil your plans😊
[/quote]
Emma Lake? Will have to Google that!
Honestly when I started this discussion I had few expectations but, my hope was for an outcome such as what this wonderful thread has turned into, a HUB for a diversity of rowers, exciting stories, cool spots to visit Tips and Tricks and so much more! Ty ty ty !
You guys have made my day!!
Thank you all and may your rows be "Zen"
🥰
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peanutflower wrote: »Well, I have no intention of competing at indoor rowing. I've used Concept 2s for years, and I have to say that the "feel" of the water rower is a lot smoother. I don't really think there is much difference at all, really, beyond market dominance by flywheel ergs. The monitor is actually better than any Concept 2 one I've used, the stroke is smoother, the resistance is stronger on the catch. Plus it looks a whole lot better, it makes a pretty sweet noise, and it stands up on end in my little bitty house.
While I prefer the look of a water rower, I read a lot online about the tanks leaking.
The C2 is such a nice simple design and they have replacements for virtually everything, so I felt that a used model B would last me forever. I had a used C (I buy and sell used gym equipment) and I actually prefer the model B. I have never gotten my hands on a model D though, so I can’t speak for those.0
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