Meatless The Better
Replies
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kshama2001 wrote: »judyvalentine512 wrote: »Thought I'd add my two cents. All the fast food places are pushing these 'beyond meat' burgers and such. Looking at the ingredients, there is some thing called soy isolates. Not a good thing. There are more additives and fat in one of these burgers than a regular burger.
Also, while checking out this very subject, the proteins you get from plants, while good, not all of them are processed in the body as meat and dairy proteins, so not necessarily as good.
So, in conclusion, (my conclusion), it is better to eat a varied diet, everything in moderation. And don't forget, unless you can guarantee that your fruit and veggies are grown organically, you're getting plenty of chemicals and crap in your veggies and fruits as well.
If you are going to scare about additives, it's a weird thing to do when you are trying to make a point in favor of commercially produced meat. Sure, the only ingredient you see will be beef, but what do you think goes into making that beef? The cow doesn't grow on a cow tree. It's fed a steady diet of antibiotics (more antibiotics are used in livestock than in humans) as well as the "dreaded" soy (soybeans are a huge part of cow feed), among other things. Not that all these things are necessarily bad (although there is considerable evidence that the antibiotic use in livestock is contributing to a rise in antibiotic resistant bacteria. This isn't woo. The CDC and WHO say so: https://edition.cnn.com/2019/08/22/health/drug-resistant-salmonella-cdc-warning/index.html. https://www.who.int/news-room/detail/07-11-2017-stop-using-antibiotics-in-healthy-animals-to-prevent-the-spread-of-antibiotic-resistance). But it's a weird flex to talk about meat being pure and natural when we look at what actually goes into producing it.
I'm not the one you quoted, but thought I'd chime in.
I'm an omnivore, and I don't buy meat that was conventionally raised, partially due to the antibiotics issue but more for my concerns about animal welfare, which were greatly influenced by Michael Pollan's The Omnivore's Dilemma, this article, which tracks the life of a typical steer : https://www.nytimes.com/2002/03/31/magazine/power-steer.html and this article, which talks about how pigs are raised: https://michaelpollan.com/articles-archive/an-animals-place/
My understanding is that corn is a bigger part of conventionally raised cattle than soy - Michael Pollan discusses extensively how cows digest grass much better than corn and the problems that arise from using corn to fatten them up faster.
Meat from animals that were never given any antibiotics ever is easily found in regular supermarkets in the three states where I've lived in the US. (It does generally cost more, so I look for sales and stock up.)
Whole Foods goes farther than supermarket brands - their meat has different "steps" representing different levels of animal welfare certification:
https://www.wholefoodsmarket.com/mission-values/animal-welfare/5-step-animal-welfare-rating
Improving the lives of farm animals, step-by-step.
At Whole Foods Market, Global Animal Partnership's Animal Welfare Certified means 100+ standards for beef, pork, chicken, lamb and turkey (except kosher turkey) in our meat department. This 5-step system not only gives you the knowledge to make informed food choices, it encourages and rewards farmers and ranchers to improve their welfare practices. So whether you’re looking for a great steak or you want to know where your roasting chicken comes from, this third-party certification system works for you. All of the beef, pork, chicken, lamb, and turkey (except kosher turkey) in our fresh meat case is certified. You’ll find a different selection in each store, but if it doesn’t meet base certification, you won’t see it because we won’t sell it. Remember: To reach even Base Certification, farms and ranches must meet more than 100 requirements!
But the post being responded to is talking about Beyond Burgers at fast food places, where the other option isn't a Step Five Animal Welfare Certified burger that is grass-fed and antibiotic-free, but a fast food burger.
When you're sitting at a Burger King drive-through, the choice isn't between an Impossible Whopper and the best beef available at Whole Foods. The choice is now between an Impossible Whopper and a regular Whopper (note: this is not an argument that a Whopper is a somehow unsafe or inappropriate food).
For the poster to critique fast food meat substitutes while ignoring any critique of fast food beef seems a bit unbalanced.11 -
paperpudding wrote: »I don't have any studies to hand - but being overweight is a huge factor in many diseases - cardiovascular risk( heart disease, strokes) diabetes, arthritis - to name a few obvious ones.
Do you really need studies to confirm that??
Most and some are two different words. Had ninerbuff said "some" then that wouldn't have been questionable. Never mind that age and taking part in various sports are are both very large contributors to arthritis (by which I'm assuming we're both talking about osteoarthritis). I can think of plenty of diseases and conditions for which weight isn't a large risk factor as well. Type 1 diabetes, scoliosis, various forms of hearing loss...
He also noted heredity and environmental factors...not just weight. Those three things cover the bases of the vast majority of diseases.1 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »I don't have any studies to hand - but being overweight is a huge factor in many diseases - cardiovascular risk( heart disease, strokes) diabetes, arthritis - to name a few obvious ones.
Do you really need studies to confirm that??
Most and some are two different words. Had ninerbuff said "some" then that wouldn't have been questionable. Never mind that age and taking part in various sports are are both very large contributors to arthritis (by which I'm assuming we're both talking about osteoarthritis). I can think of plenty of diseases and conditions for which weight isn't a large risk factor as well. Type 1 diabetes, scoliosis, various forms of hearing loss...
He also noted heredity and environmental factors...not just weight. Those three things cover the bases of the vast majority of diseases.
Just keep reading. Eventually you'll see a post where I apologize for misreading what he wrote. Or I guess more accurately, apologized for the drama that I caused by misreading said post.3 -
janejellyroll wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »judyvalentine512 wrote: »Thought I'd add my two cents. All the fast food places are pushing these 'beyond meat' burgers and such. Looking at the ingredients, there is some thing called soy isolates. Not a good thing. There are more additives and fat in one of these burgers than a regular burger.
Also, while checking out this very subject, the proteins you get from plants, while good, not all of them are processed in the body as meat and dairy proteins, so not necessarily as good.
So, in conclusion, (my conclusion), it is better to eat a varied diet, everything in moderation. And don't forget, unless you can guarantee that your fruit and veggies are grown organically, you're getting plenty of chemicals and crap in your veggies and fruits as well.
If you are going to scare about additives, it's a weird thing to do when you are trying to make a point in favor of commercially produced meat. Sure, the only ingredient you see will be beef, but what do you think goes into making that beef? The cow doesn't grow on a cow tree. It's fed a steady diet of antibiotics (more antibiotics are used in livestock than in humans) as well as the "dreaded" soy (soybeans are a huge part of cow feed), among other things. Not that all these things are necessarily bad (although there is considerable evidence that the antibiotic use in livestock is contributing to a rise in antibiotic resistant bacteria. This isn't woo. The CDC and WHO say so: https://edition.cnn.com/2019/08/22/health/drug-resistant-salmonella-cdc-warning/index.html. https://www.who.int/news-room/detail/07-11-2017-stop-using-antibiotics-in-healthy-animals-to-prevent-the-spread-of-antibiotic-resistance). But it's a weird flex to talk about meat being pure and natural when we look at what actually goes into producing it.
I'm not the one you quoted, but thought I'd chime in.
I'm an omnivore, and I don't buy meat that was conventionally raised, partially due to the antibiotics issue but more for my concerns about animal welfare, which were greatly influenced by Michael Pollan's The Omnivore's Dilemma, this article, which tracks the life of a typical steer : https://www.nytimes.com/2002/03/31/magazine/power-steer.html and this article, which talks about how pigs are raised: https://michaelpollan.com/articles-archive/an-animals-place/
My understanding is that corn is a bigger part of conventionally raised cattle than soy - Michael Pollan discusses extensively how cows digest grass much better than corn and the problems that arise from using corn to fatten them up faster.
Meat from animals that were never given any antibiotics ever is easily found in regular supermarkets in the three states where I've lived in the US. (It does generally cost more, so I look for sales and stock up.)
Whole Foods goes farther than supermarket brands - their meat has different "steps" representing different levels of animal welfare certification:
https://www.wholefoodsmarket.com/mission-values/animal-welfare/5-step-animal-welfare-rating
Improving the lives of farm animals, step-by-step.
At Whole Foods Market, Global Animal Partnership's Animal Welfare Certified means 100+ standards for beef, pork, chicken, lamb and turkey (except kosher turkey) in our meat department. This 5-step system not only gives you the knowledge to make informed food choices, it encourages and rewards farmers and ranchers to improve their welfare practices. So whether you’re looking for a great steak or you want to know where your roasting chicken comes from, this third-party certification system works for you. All of the beef, pork, chicken, lamb, and turkey (except kosher turkey) in our fresh meat case is certified. You’ll find a different selection in each store, but if it doesn’t meet base certification, you won’t see it because we won’t sell it. Remember: To reach even Base Certification, farms and ranches must meet more than 100 requirements!
But the post being responded to is talking about Beyond Burgers at fast food places, where the other option isn't a Step Five Animal Welfare Certified burger that is grass-fed and antibiotic-free, but a fast food burger.
When you're sitting at a Burger King drive-through, the choice isn't between an Impossible Whopper and the best beef available at Whole Foods. The choice is now between an Impossible Whopper and a regular Whopper (note: this is not an argument that a Whopper is a somehow unsafe or inappropriate food).
For the poster to critique fast food meat substitutes while ignoring any critique of fast food beef seems a bit unbalanced.
Not to mention the oddity of using the fake-meat burgers (no matter their content, as long as not poison) as a critique of a meatless diet. While some meatless eaters rely heavily on imitation meats, many of us don't - just as many meat-eaters don't rely heavily on meat-focused fast food.
(I think there's a bit of failure of imagination/understanding about meatless eating in the criticized post, especially once I include the "not necessarily as good" comment. I take that to be referring in a not-clear way to the fact that many non-animal proteins are incomplete in essential amino acids, which is true and something meatless eaters should be aware of, but "not as good" really isn't an insightful summary of the situation nor does it help people who want to omit meat eat nutritiously all the same).
This is not an attack, in intent, BTW: There's no particular reason a meat-eater needs to understand the technicalities of meatless foods and meatless eating.6 -
janejellyroll wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »judyvalentine512 wrote: »Thought I'd add my two cents. All the fast food places are pushing these 'beyond meat' burgers and such. Looking at the ingredients, there is some thing called soy isolates. Not a good thing. There are more additives and fat in one of these burgers than a regular burger.
Also, while checking out this very subject, the proteins you get from plants, while good, not all of them are processed in the body as meat and dairy proteins, so not necessarily as good.
So, in conclusion, (my conclusion), it is better to eat a varied diet, everything in moderation. And don't forget, unless you can guarantee that your fruit and veggies are grown organically, you're getting plenty of chemicals and crap in your veggies and fruits as well.
If you are going to scare about additives, it's a weird thing to do when you are trying to make a point in favor of commercially produced meat. Sure, the only ingredient you see will be beef, but what do you think goes into making that beef? The cow doesn't grow on a cow tree. It's fed a steady diet of antibiotics (more antibiotics are used in livestock than in humans) as well as the "dreaded" soy (soybeans are a huge part of cow feed), among other things. Not that all these things are necessarily bad (although there is considerable evidence that the antibiotic use in livestock is contributing to a rise in antibiotic resistant bacteria. This isn't woo. The CDC and WHO say so: https://edition.cnn.com/2019/08/22/health/drug-resistant-salmonella-cdc-warning/index.html. https://www.who.int/news-room/detail/07-11-2017-stop-using-antibiotics-in-healthy-animals-to-prevent-the-spread-of-antibiotic-resistance). But it's a weird flex to talk about meat being pure and natural when we look at what actually goes into producing it.
I'm not the one you quoted, but thought I'd chime in.
I'm an omnivore, and I don't buy meat that was conventionally raised, partially due to the antibiotics issue but more for my concerns about animal welfare, which were greatly influenced by Michael Pollan's The Omnivore's Dilemma, this article, which tracks the life of a typical steer : https://www.nytimes.com/2002/03/31/magazine/power-steer.html and this article, which talks about how pigs are raised: https://michaelpollan.com/articles-archive/an-animals-place/
My understanding is that corn is a bigger part of conventionally raised cattle than soy - Michael Pollan discusses extensively how cows digest grass much better than corn and the problems that arise from using corn to fatten them up faster.
Meat from animals that were never given any antibiotics ever is easily found in regular supermarkets in the three states where I've lived in the US. (It does generally cost more, so I look for sales and stock up.)
Whole Foods goes farther than supermarket brands - their meat has different "steps" representing different levels of animal welfare certification:
https://www.wholefoodsmarket.com/mission-values/animal-welfare/5-step-animal-welfare-rating
Improving the lives of farm animals, step-by-step.
At Whole Foods Market, Global Animal Partnership's Animal Welfare Certified means 100+ standards for beef, pork, chicken, lamb and turkey (except kosher turkey) in our meat department. This 5-step system not only gives you the knowledge to make informed food choices, it encourages and rewards farmers and ranchers to improve their welfare practices. So whether you’re looking for a great steak or you want to know where your roasting chicken comes from, this third-party certification system works for you. All of the beef, pork, chicken, lamb, and turkey (except kosher turkey) in our fresh meat case is certified. You’ll find a different selection in each store, but if it doesn’t meet base certification, you won’t see it because we won’t sell it. Remember: To reach even Base Certification, farms and ranches must meet more than 100 requirements!
But the post being responded to is talking about Beyond Burgers at fast food places, where the other option isn't a Step Five Animal Welfare Certified burger that is grass-fed and antibiotic-free, but a fast food burger.
When you're sitting at a Burger King drive-through, the choice isn't between an Impossible Whopper and the best beef available at Whole Foods. The choice is now between an Impossible Whopper and a regular Whopper (note: this is not an argument that a Whopper is a somehow unsafe or inappropriate food).
For the poster to critique fast food meat substitutes while ignoring any critique of fast food beef seems a bit unbalanced.
Not to mention the oddity of using the fake-meat burgers (no matter their content, as long as not poison) as a critique of a meatless diet. While some meatless eaters rely heavily on imitation meats, many of us don't - just as many meat-eaters don't rely heavily on meat-focused fast food.
(I think there's a bit of failure of imagination/understanding about meatless eating in the criticized post, especially once I include the "not necessarily as good" comment. I take that to be referring in a not-clear way to the fact that many non-animal proteins are incomplete in essential amino acids, which is true and something meatless eaters should be aware of, but "not as good" really isn't an insightful summary of the situation nor does it help people who want to omit meat eat nutritiously all the same).
This is not an attack, in intent, BTW: There's no particular reason a meat-eater needs to understand the technicalities of meatless foods and meatless eating.
Exactly. It's very easy to be vegan/vegetarian and never eat a fake-meat burger. They're a complete luxury item.
Eating fast food is a choice -- for both vegans and non-vegans.5 -
janejellyroll wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »judyvalentine512 wrote: »Thought I'd add my two cents. All the fast food places are pushing these 'beyond meat' burgers and such. Looking at the ingredients, there is some thing called soy isolates. Not a good thing. There are more additives and fat in one of these burgers than a regular burger.
Also, while checking out this very subject, the proteins you get from plants, while good, not all of them are processed in the body as meat and dairy proteins, so not necessarily as good.
So, in conclusion, (my conclusion), it is better to eat a varied diet, everything in moderation. And don't forget, unless you can guarantee that your fruit and veggies are grown organically, you're getting plenty of chemicals and crap in your veggies and fruits as well.
If you are going to scare about additives, it's a weird thing to do when you are trying to make a point in favor of commercially produced meat. Sure, the only ingredient you see will be beef, but what do you think goes into making that beef? The cow doesn't grow on a cow tree. It's fed a steady diet of antibiotics (more antibiotics are used in livestock than in humans) as well as the "dreaded" soy (soybeans are a huge part of cow feed), among other things. Not that all these things are necessarily bad (although there is considerable evidence that the antibiotic use in livestock is contributing to a rise in antibiotic resistant bacteria. This isn't woo. The CDC and WHO say so: https://edition.cnn.com/2019/08/22/health/drug-resistant-salmonella-cdc-warning/index.html. https://www.who.int/news-room/detail/07-11-2017-stop-using-antibiotics-in-healthy-animals-to-prevent-the-spread-of-antibiotic-resistance). But it's a weird flex to talk about meat being pure and natural when we look at what actually goes into producing it.
I'm not the one you quoted, but thought I'd chime in.
I'm an omnivore, and I don't buy meat that was conventionally raised, partially due to the antibiotics issue but more for my concerns about animal welfare, which were greatly influenced by Michael Pollan's The Omnivore's Dilemma, this article, which tracks the life of a typical steer : https://www.nytimes.com/2002/03/31/magazine/power-steer.html and this article, which talks about how pigs are raised: https://michaelpollan.com/articles-archive/an-animals-place/
My understanding is that corn is a bigger part of conventionally raised cattle than soy - Michael Pollan discusses extensively how cows digest grass much better than corn and the problems that arise from using corn to fatten them up faster.
Meat from animals that were never given any antibiotics ever is easily found in regular supermarkets in the three states where I've lived in the US. (It does generally cost more, so I look for sales and stock up.)
Whole Foods goes farther than supermarket brands - their meat has different "steps" representing different levels of animal welfare certification:
https://www.wholefoodsmarket.com/mission-values/animal-welfare/5-step-animal-welfare-rating
Improving the lives of farm animals, step-by-step.
At Whole Foods Market, Global Animal Partnership's Animal Welfare Certified means 100+ standards for beef, pork, chicken, lamb and turkey (except kosher turkey) in our meat department. This 5-step system not only gives you the knowledge to make informed food choices, it encourages and rewards farmers and ranchers to improve their welfare practices. So whether you’re looking for a great steak or you want to know where your roasting chicken comes from, this third-party certification system works for you. All of the beef, pork, chicken, lamb, and turkey (except kosher turkey) in our fresh meat case is certified. You’ll find a different selection in each store, but if it doesn’t meet base certification, you won’t see it because we won’t sell it. Remember: To reach even Base Certification, farms and ranches must meet more than 100 requirements!
But the post being responded to is talking about Beyond Burgers at fast food places, where the other option isn't a Step Five Animal Welfare Certified burger that is grass-fed and antibiotic-free, but a fast food burger.
When you're sitting at a Burger King drive-through, the choice isn't between an Impossible Whopper and the best beef available at Whole Foods. The choice is now between an Impossible Whopper and a regular Whopper (note: this is not an argument that a Whopper is a somehow unsafe or inappropriate food).
For the poster to critique fast food meat substitutes while ignoring any critique of fast food beef seems a bit unbalanced.
Good point. I stopped eating fast food burgers after watching "Food, Inc." When I want a burger, I make it at home from beef that was not conventionally raised. I plan more so that fast food is not imperative. I do get fast food - occasionally - but it's a conscious choice.
Also, I don't buy the best burger available from Whole Foods - I buy the cheapest burger available from WF when it's on sale.0 -
kshama2001 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »judyvalentine512 wrote: »Thought I'd add my two cents. All the fast food places are pushing these 'beyond meat' burgers and such. Looking at the ingredients, there is some thing called soy isolates. Not a good thing. There are more additives and fat in one of these burgers than a regular burger.
Also, while checking out this very subject, the proteins you get from plants, while good, not all of them are processed in the body as meat and dairy proteins, so not necessarily as good.
So, in conclusion, (my conclusion), it is better to eat a varied diet, everything in moderation. And don't forget, unless you can guarantee that your fruit and veggies are grown organically, you're getting plenty of chemicals and crap in your veggies and fruits as well.
If you are going to scare about additives, it's a weird thing to do when you are trying to make a point in favor of commercially produced meat. Sure, the only ingredient you see will be beef, but what do you think goes into making that beef? The cow doesn't grow on a cow tree. It's fed a steady diet of antibiotics (more antibiotics are used in livestock than in humans) as well as the "dreaded" soy (soybeans are a huge part of cow feed), among other things. Not that all these things are necessarily bad (although there is considerable evidence that the antibiotic use in livestock is contributing to a rise in antibiotic resistant bacteria. This isn't woo. The CDC and WHO say so: https://edition.cnn.com/2019/08/22/health/drug-resistant-salmonella-cdc-warning/index.html. https://www.who.int/news-room/detail/07-11-2017-stop-using-antibiotics-in-healthy-animals-to-prevent-the-spread-of-antibiotic-resistance). But it's a weird flex to talk about meat being pure and natural when we look at what actually goes into producing it.
I'm not the one you quoted, but thought I'd chime in.
I'm an omnivore, and I don't buy meat that was conventionally raised, partially due to the antibiotics issue but more for my concerns about animal welfare, which were greatly influenced by Michael Pollan's The Omnivore's Dilemma, this article, which tracks the life of a typical steer : https://www.nytimes.com/2002/03/31/magazine/power-steer.html and this article, which talks about how pigs are raised: https://michaelpollan.com/articles-archive/an-animals-place/
My understanding is that corn is a bigger part of conventionally raised cattle than soy - Michael Pollan discusses extensively how cows digest grass much better than corn and the problems that arise from using corn to fatten them up faster.
Meat from animals that were never given any antibiotics ever is easily found in regular supermarkets in the three states where I've lived in the US. (It does generally cost more, so I look for sales and stock up.)
Whole Foods goes farther than supermarket brands - their meat has different "steps" representing different levels of animal welfare certification:
https://www.wholefoodsmarket.com/mission-values/animal-welfare/5-step-animal-welfare-rating
Improving the lives of farm animals, step-by-step.
At Whole Foods Market, Global Animal Partnership's Animal Welfare Certified means 100+ standards for beef, pork, chicken, lamb and turkey (except kosher turkey) in our meat department. This 5-step system not only gives you the knowledge to make informed food choices, it encourages and rewards farmers and ranchers to improve their welfare practices. So whether you’re looking for a great steak or you want to know where your roasting chicken comes from, this third-party certification system works for you. All of the beef, pork, chicken, lamb, and turkey (except kosher turkey) in our fresh meat case is certified. You’ll find a different selection in each store, but if it doesn’t meet base certification, you won’t see it because we won’t sell it. Remember: To reach even Base Certification, farms and ranches must meet more than 100 requirements!
But the post being responded to is talking about Beyond Burgers at fast food places, where the other option isn't a Step Five Animal Welfare Certified burger that is grass-fed and antibiotic-free, but a fast food burger.
When you're sitting at a Burger King drive-through, the choice isn't between an Impossible Whopper and the best beef available at Whole Foods. The choice is now between an Impossible Whopper and a regular Whopper (note: this is not an argument that a Whopper is a somehow unsafe or inappropriate food).
For the poster to critique fast food meat substitutes while ignoring any critique of fast food beef seems a bit unbalanced.
Good point. I stopped eating fast food burgers after watching "Food, Inc." When I want a burger, I make it at home from beef that was not conventionally raised. I plan more so that fast food is not imperative. I do get fast food - occasionally - but it's a conscious choice.
Also, I don't buy the best burger available from Whole Foods - I buy the cheapest burger available from WF when it's on sale.
Yeah I think Fast Food Nation is what put the nail in the coffin for me with regards to eating fast food. That said, I was an impressionable teenager when it came out and it was around that time I was also terrified of mad cow (which was rather baseless given that I was living in the US, but again, I was a young teenager).0 -
For me, it was an ethical decision because I don’t want to harm animals and want to do what’s best for the environment long term. I did not expect any major healthy changes when I eliminated animal products but have noticed some including better digestion, less bloating, more energy, haven’t gotten sick since. This is just my experience.2
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I strongly disagree. I was vegan for almost 9 years (whole food plant based) and vegetarian before that. I got very sick and felt miserable. I started eating meat and felt better in less than a month! All this plant based documentaries and commercials is propaganda. It's the newest fad and everyone is jumping on the train. The key is balance. Eat good quality food from plants and animals.8
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judyvalentine512 wrote: »All the fast food places are pushing these 'beyond meat' burgers and such. Looking at the ingredients, there is some thing called soy isolates. Not a good thing.
Actually, I do better with soy protein isolates than with the whole soybean (no problem with tofu or tempeh). Likewise, I have no trouble with wheat protein isolate or wheat gluten but something else in wheat is problematic if I eat too much of it and too often. So I'm happy when the proteins of such foods are isolated from the rest because that makes it much easier on my body.
By the way, the first thing the body does with any protein molecule from any source is to break it down into component amino acids. Those amino acids are then used to synthesize our own protein molecules used for various purposes. Proteins from meat are not better than proteins from plants for human purposes, and all essential amino acids on our list (the ones we must get in food) are plentiful in all plants.
The body keeps the amino acids for a while (even up to a few days) and picks out the right ratios for our proteins from the general pool. So although certain animal foods are called "complete protein" because, as from animals related to humans, they have similar amino acid ratios in their proteins -- we really don't have to worry about that. We get plenty of amino acids for our use from eating a variety of plant-based foods. Some vegan protein powders will blend different plant protein sources to come up with an amino acid profile the same as for egg, for example, so they can put "complete protein" on the label, but we really don't need to do that in a single meal or even in a single day.
But for some people like me - processing that isolates the protein from other parts of both sources may be beneficial because of problems with the non-protein parts.
Any natural food is going to be a complicated mixture of chemicals. Just look at the actual chemical composition of any natural fat or oil. This isn't due to processing but is the way they are in the plant or animal.
So additives are not automatically bad. As a chemist, I am not really worried about artificial flavors since they are likely to be closely related to flavor-carrying molecules in the natural product or even identical. So the body already knows how to handle them. The natural product's flavor is just much more complex because the flavor comes from many chemicals in its composition rather than just the one used in a flavoring agent. I prefer the natural flavors if I can get them simply because they often taste better as a result.
I am much more dubious about artificial colors because they are typically quite different from color-carrying molecules in natural food. So I have a strong preference for coloring agents that are natural colors from plants.
Processing aids and other additives that show up in processed foods need to be evaluated on a case by case basis. I personally really hate the taste of natural stevia... Fine with sugar alcohols like xylitol, which are extracted from plants anyway, but not fine with the various artificial sweeteners common today because I don't like the taste.0 -
judyvalentine512 wrote: »All the fast food places are pushing these 'beyond meat' burgers and such. Looking at the ingredients, there is some thing called soy isolates. Not a good thing.
Actually, I do better with soy protein isolates than with the whole soybean (no problem with tofu or tempeh). Likewise, I have no trouble with wheat protein isolate or wheat gluten but something else in wheat is problematic if I eat too much of it and too often. So I'm happy when the proteins of such foods are isolated from the rest because that makes it much easier on my body.
By the way, the first thing the body does with any protein molecule from any source is to break it down into component amino acids. Those amino acids are then used to synthesize our own protein molecules used for various purposes. Proteins from meat are not better than proteins from plants for human purposes, and all essential amino acids on our list (the ones we must get in food) are plentiful in all plants.
The body keeps the amino acids for a while (even up to a few days) and picks out the right ratios for our proteins from the general pool. So although certain animal foods are called "complete protein" because, as from animals related to humans, they have similar amino acid ratios in their proteins -- we really don't have to worry about that. We get plenty of amino acids for our use from eating a variety of plant-based foods. Some vegan protein powders will blend different plant protein sources to come up with an amino acid profile the same as for egg, for example, so they can put "complete protein" on the label, but we really don't need to do that in a single meal or even in a single day.
But for some people like me - processing that isolates the protein from other parts of both sources may be beneficial because of problems with the non-protein parts.
Any natural food is going to be a complicated mixture of chemicals. Just look at the actual chemical composition of any natural fat or oil. This isn't due to processing but is the way they are in the plant or animal.
So additives are not automatically bad. As a chemist, I am not really worried about artificial flavors since they are likely to be closely related to flavor-carrying molecules in the natural product or even identical. So the body already knows how to handle them. The natural product's flavor is just much more complex because the flavor comes from many chemicals in its composition rather than just the one used in a flavoring agent. I prefer the natural flavors if I can get them simply because they often taste better as a result.
I am much more dubious about artificial colors because they are typically quite different from color-carrying molecules in natural food. So I have a strong preference for coloring agents that are natural colors from plants.
Processing aids and other additives that show up in processed foods need to be evaluated on a case by case basis. I personally really hate the taste of natural stevia... Fine with sugar alcohols like xylitol, which are extracted from plants anyway, but not fine with the various artificial sweeteners common today because I don't like the taste.
With general support for everything you're saying, I want to quibble a bit with the bolded - not with respect to you personally, but because of current context (MFP forums) where there can be people newly coming to a given way of eating, and simultaneously limiting food intake in some ways.
100% agree we don't need to slavishly balance essential amino acids (EAA) meal by meal, like Frances Moore Lappe told us back in the early 1970s. (Yeah, I've been veg that long.
).
However, I do think it's helpful for new vegetarians to develop a general understanding of amino acid balance, and how that should influence food variety; and/or to think in terms of food combinations from cultures with a significant vegetarian tradition (or low meat intake generally).
Especially in a context with novice veggies and potential food intake limitations, this is a useful strategy. It's possible, kind of easy, actually, to adopt an eating style that remains limited in protein-containing food choices (quantity or variety) at first. That can be suboptimal for best nutrition.
I often see threads here where someone vegetarian/vegan is saying they struggle to get enough protein, or new veggies asking how to get protein, or (another pet peeve) advocates saying "we really don't need as much protein on a plant based diet". If one is getting protein grams on the low end, and simultaneously not getting a good range of EAAs through dietary variety, that can definitely be less than ideal nutrition . . . and protein is a form of nutrition that's especially important during weight loss, for muscle retention as well as the potential for better satiation and a possible very small TEF bump.
You go on to say "We get plenty of amino acids for our use from eating a variety of plant-based foods." which I also 100% agree we can do, and it isn't all that hard.
What I'm saying is that I think being rhetorically super-sanguine about that (perhaps implying that it's automatic), in an enviroment where intake restriction and new plant-based eaters are common, might not be the best possible general advice.
It's not rocket surgery to get adequate protein on a plant-based diet, not even close. But a little knowledge and thought about variety (and quantitative adequacy) is a useful thing, I think.
This is not a personal critique; your post was insightful and helpful IMO. :flowerforyou: It's just a quibble from a long-term vegetarian.
P.S. I definitely also agree that soy is over-demonized now. I tracked the research for years, as a survivor of estrogen-receptor-positive breast cancer. Many of people's concerns about it were things that popped up in previous decades as potentials, but have been pretty thoroughly debunked at this point. Add the fact that it's a food with a long tradition of human consumption, and I'm pretty comfortable eating it.4
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