Ethical food consumption

ninerbuff

I believe that eventually because of science, we'll switch to lab grown meats. Likely far in the future but it's not out of the question. There would be no pasturing needed, no antibiotics (because the environment for growing would be sterile) less space needed and really no killing needed. Now of course it will taste a bit different because lab grown meat really doesn't have any fat in it. You're just replicating muscle cells. But it if were just for the protein intake without having to go vegan/vegatarian, I can see this as a future option.

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33gail33

janejellyroll wrote: »

daneejela wrote: »

youngmomtaz wrote: »

My family buys male day old dairy calves to raise for meat. We often buy a few at a time and sell to friends as well. Farmers don’t waste or kill for nothing. These articles make it seem as if it is enjoyable. If we don’t take the calves the farmer can sell to other places that slaughter for various uses. Or if he shoots it himself it feeds his dogs for a few days. I see no problem with this. In our own farm if I have picked out a ewe who I feel is too old to breed/who is a poor mother we will butcher her and put the meat in the freezer labeled as dog food.

I grew up on a small family farm. When my parents had ducks, even though they haven't lived for a long time (few months), the time they were alive, they had the best life possible - they lived outside, on a big meadow with a small pool they've run to every morning.
When the time came, I did felt bad for them, but it was easier for me to accept the food chain when I knew they had a really cool life while they were alive.
On the other hand, when you turn a living being into industrial raw material as they do in the big tech meat companies, it's just so painfully heartless.

If you're killing someone for food, you're turning them into raw material regardless of whether or not you allow them access to a pool beforehand or not. Is it the "industrial" part that is the specific issue? This is an attitude I've encountered before -- "Well, at least we're not like THEM," as if the act is transformed by a lower standard of efficiency or a smaller profit margin.

I'll try to explain it, because this is how I feel about it as well. I became vegetarian, then vegan, not because I think that killing animals for food is inherently wrong (I don't), but because I feel that the commodification of farm animals is inherently wrong. "Producing" them in a factory farm reduces them to nothing more than biological machines that exist solely for our use, and I personally find that horrific. I always recommend the book "Eating Animals" by Jonathan Safran Foer (yes the same guy who wrote Everything is Illuminated - he also writes non fiction) as a very balanced look into the issue.
Personally I still struggle with the ethical conundrum my health issues present me with regards to diet - for me fully vegan is what I aspire to from a moral perspective - but so far it hasn't worked out for me. So I try to balance it as best I can by including only wild caught fish and organic eggs (which have the highest animal welfare standards fwiw).

hesn92

I think the most ethical thing you can do is grow or raise as much as you can yourself, and shop local as much as you can. I wish it were more mainstream for neighborhoods to have community gardens. I live in a typical suburban neighborhood where everyone has a yard full of pointless grass lol. Why don't all the neighbors come together and used a shared space for a community garden or chicken coop? Instead we buy food at the grocery store that was shipped from halfway across the world. I have a small veg. garden but me and my husband both work full time and growing enough food to really sustain you is a full time job in itself. Our whole society is just backwards to me. Food should be a priority, it's what sustains us.

I don't eat any animal products right now because factory farming is unethical but I still have mixed feelings about eating animals and animal products in general. I don't believe there is any humane way to breed and kill an animal who is healthy and doesn't want to die, especially at such a young age, but nature is cruel. If animals are treated well and slaughtered in the most painless way, that's a lot less cruel than what happens out in nature. Although, on the other hand, most humans can thrive on a *well planned* plant based diet, so the breeding and killing of animals isn't necessary in most cases.

lemurcat2

hesn92 wrote: »

I think the most ethical thing you can do is grow or raise as much as you can yourself, and shop local as much as you can. I wish it were more mainstream for neighborhoods to have community gardens. I live in a typical suburban neighborhood where everyone has a yard full of pointless grass lol.

It's really common where I live (although in a city) to have a community garden and my neighborhood does, and I personally have been working on growing veg in my backyard (I'm better at it than flowers). I'm not sure I agree that's better ethically or environmentally than buying from farms (esp the many many local farms I know) that operate at scale, though. Maybe there's an environmental benefit to organic or local, that's debatable, but why would it be better for me to grow all my own (which is not possible -- I have over 3 ft of snow in my backyard right now) and have a less diverse veg and fruit option vs supporting people whose career is to farm? Gardening is a great hobby, but IMO people who can and choose to garden aren't more ethical than those who aren't interested, and it's not inherently cheaper given how hit or miss it can be IMO.

Theo166

daneejela wrote: »

I am not sure if this is the case...at least not in my part of the world...there are so many abandoned lands that nobody cares for and pasture that is being trimmed with trimming machines. It's almost impossible to see a cow, a pig or a sheep outside in the countryside.

If all those land would be utilized, I would probably share your opinion, right now it sounds too me like one of those widely spread beliefs that are hard to prove/disprove.

Regarding proteins...I don't have enough knowledge to argue about how much proteins we need, but a look into the historical consumption of proteins raises a question if we maybe are going overboard with proteins lately.
(I am not talking about bodybuilders, but an average person with average physical activity)

nope, you can't produce affordable food on those random acres of abandoned land. It's a big commitment to raise farm animals and if they are cutting the hay, it is likely sold as feed.

I certainly agree 'people' should eat fewer calories and waste less, but most of those excess calories are coming from processed carbs not meat. We would achieve great things if people were mostly in the healthy BMI range.

Also, the environmental impact of lab grown meat is not insignificant. The nutrients will be industrially produced rather than relying on lower tech farming of livestock feed.

Grace_spaceship

I guess for me ethical eating is trying to avoid packaging. I also try to eat local seasonal veggies. As much as I love avocado toast, I know that avocado had to been flown halfway around the world for me to have it, and in all likelihood it's relativity cheap because the person who grows/harvests it is not paid enough. I live on a farm, we have sheep, cattle and chickens. I like eating animals I know. I know what kind of life they had, and that they were cared for and treated well. I know our land is unsuitable for crops but excellent at growing grass which we humans cannot eat, but cows and sheep love. Our farm also trays to balance productivity with environmental consciousness. We plant a lot of hedges. We have multiple beehives. We are working towards planting native trees on marginal ground (steep hillside, really wet bits ect). I am not into organic meat because in my experience it can be worse for the animals. If one of our animals get an infection, we treat it straight away limiting the distress and pain the animal is in. An organic farm would have to wait for a vet to come out to administer the same treatment possibly prolonging the animals suffering for hours.

Theoldguy1

hesn92 wrote: »

I think the most ethical thing you can do is grow or raise as much as you can yourself, and shop local as much as you can. I wish it were more mainstream for neighborhoods to have community gardens. I live in a typical suburban neighborhood where everyone has a yard full of pointless grass lol. Why don't all the neighbors come together and used a shared space for a community garden or chicken coop? Instead we buy food at the grocery store that was shipped from halfway across the world. I have a small veg. garden but me and my husband both work full time and growing enough food to really sustain you is a full time job in itself. Our whole society is just backwards to me. Food should be a priority, it's what sustains us.

Looks like you answered your question a couple lines down.

The people running the farms are better and dedicate more time to it than you do, just like you and your husband are more likely better at what you do than most farmers. Where is the neighborhood farm land going to come from? Never mind some people don't like messing around in a garden or raising chickens.

SunnyBunBun79

If the animal is well taken care of and is slaughtered swiftly to not increase its pain then that would, in my opinion, be the best way to consume meat. Unfortunately, with greed and cruelty, animals are the ones who suffer til the end. I don't know why its more expensive in the US to buy grass fed beef or free range animal meat/eggs.. there is SO MUCH more land here to spread out and raise cattle and other animals for meat.

Theoldguy1

hesn92 wrote: »

I think the most ethical thing you can do is grow or raise as much as you can yourself, and shop local as much as you can. I wish it were more mainstream for neighborhoods to have community gardens. I live in a typical suburban neighborhood where everyone has a yard full of pointless grass lol. Why don't all the neighbors come together and used a shared space for a community garden or chicken coop? Instead we buy food at the grocery store that was shipped from halfway across the world. I have a small veg. garden but me and my husband both work full time and growing enough food to really sustain you is a full time job in itself. Our whole society is just backwards to me. Food should be a priority, it's what sustains us.

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The average farmer feeds 155 people, so yes growing food is a job in and of itself. We can romanticize being self reliant and growing all the food for ourselves and our families, but not very practical in today's world.

https://recipes.howstuffworks.com/how-many-farmer-feed.htm

penguinmama87

SunnyBunBun79 wrote: »

If the animal is well taken care of and is slaughtered swiftly to not increase its pain then that would, in my opinion, be the best way to consume meat. Unfortunately, with greed and cruelty, animals are the ones who suffer til the end. I don't know why its more expensive in the US to buy grass fed beef or free range animal meat/eggs.. there is SO MUCH more land here to spread out and raise cattle and other animals for meat.

Some of it is just wages for workers, too.

I'm a "locavore," I guess under current terminology. To the extent that I determine reasonable and affordable, we buy locally raised meat, milk, eggs, grains, and produce. I personally know the farmers we get our food from and support their practices. It is a bit more expensive than a regular grocery store, and a lot more expensive than a discount store, but for a family of our size (7) the amount I spend on food and other consumables monthly actually falls into what the USDA considers "frugal." A larger family, though, means being able to buy in bulk which is not practical for many smaller households to do. In some cases, though, we actually combine with some other neighborhood families and use our buying power that way to get lower prices on bulk goods that we then divvy up amongst ourselves. We acquired a chest freezer and buy large portions of an entire animal, and eat all the "weird" parts and organ meats, use the bones to make stock, and I actually use the bones afterwards again to make fertilizer for our herb and vegetable gardens. I also compost our kitchen scraps. I'd like to raise chickens in the future too, for both eggs and meat. I don't find the use of animals inherently unethical, but do strongly feel they should be treated well and in most mass-commercial agricultural operations, they probably are not, or it's impossible to find out (which also means they're probably not.)

I don't judge other people's shopping or consumption habits because it's really not my place. I do tend to think that most of the problems are systemic and that it's unrealistic to think that my individual household will make much of an impact by itself. But that doesn't make it not worth doing, to the extent that I can, or if I possibly encourage someone else to try those things if they're interested. It's a learning curve and a process, and we didn't start doing all these things at once. My first step was signing up for a CSA that was pretty close in price to what we spent on fruits and vegetables already, and learning how to cook the stuff we got. That was ten years ago. Now we do these other things, and I have more things I want to try in the future. Just like weight loss, it's building a series of habits over time that work for our family, and then when my children are out and living on their own, those habits are just as normal for them if and when they start their own families.