Welcome to Debate Club! Please be aware that this is a space for respectful debate, and that your ideas will be challenged here. Please remember to critique the argument, not the author.
Jillian Michael comments about Lizzo
Replies
-
She was specifically asked about Lizzo in an interview. She didn’t just bring her up out of the blue.
The comment:
"I love her music, yeah, 100%. Don't know anything about her. I'm sure she's a cool, awesome chick," Michaels said. "But why are we celebrating her body? Why does it matter? That's what I'm saying. Why aren't we celebrating her music?
"Because," the trainer and life coach said, "it isn't going to be awesome if she gets diabetes."
"I love her music. My kid loves her music. But there's never a moment where I'm like, 'And I'm so glad that she's overweight.' Why do I even care? Why is it my job to care about her weight?," Michaels said.
Edit: I had to look up Lizzo. Very big girl - singer, wears super skimpy outfits on stage.20 -
I've never seen a picture. Her music isn't for me.4
-
She was a fitness coach/trainer for the show ‘ the biggest loser’....I’m not really surprised she’s not sugar coating anything. With Lizzo, I feel like people are obsesssed with her body and not so much her music, at this point it just seems weird and pretentious. I don’t see anything wrong with what she said btw.
22 -
NorthCascades wrote: »I've never seen a picture. Her music isn't for me.
Several comments:- Never heard of Lizzo before
- Looked at a couple vidoes, not a fan of her music, just me
- We are in a sad state of affairs when anyone cares what Jillian Michaels thinks
17 -
Jillian isn't wrong. 🤷🏼♀️52
-
Never heard of her, but Jillian is spot on about her obesity. What is so bad about THE TRUTH?37
-
jseams1234 wrote: »She was specifically asked about Lizzo in an interview. She didn’t just bring her up out of the blue.
The comment:
"I love her music, yeah, 100%. Don't know anything about her. I'm sure she's a cool, awesome chick," Michaels said. "But why are we celebrating her body? Why does it matter? That's what I'm saying. Why aren't we celebrating her music?
"Because," the trainer and life coach said, "it isn't going to be awesome if she gets diabetes."
"I love her music. My kid loves her music. But there's never a moment where I'm like, 'And I'm so glad that she's overweight.' Why do I even care? Why is it my job to care about her weight?," Michaels said.
Edit: I had to look up Lizzo. Very big girl - singer, wears super skimpy outfits on stage.
This - shocking - the press have taken comments out of context to get a clickbait headline to get some ad revenue - who knew?!
Form an orderly queue of people who haven't read/watched the full interview and get offended on behalf of someone else.
I too have never heard of this singer but would probably say the same of any overweight/obese singer - they are famous for their music, not their body shape/size so that's what I'd judge them on and these days I listen to most stuff through Spotify and have no idea what they look like.
Edited to add - the opinion on this particular singers weight seems to be more of an issue for the interviewer than Jillian Michael's14 -
Never heard of her, but Jullian isn't wrong. If I were that singer I wouldn't want my body to be the central topic, even if in a positive way, I would want my music to be.
I think it's an understandable reaction that some people are enamored with the ability of some larger folks to just wear whatever they want. It was a taboo in the past and we expected large people to dress a certain way, so anything that deviates from that is "brave", "confident", "body positive"...etc.
I personally can't wait for the novelty to wear off. I think it's normal for people to dress the way they want, I think obesity increases the risk for certain illnesses, I think it's okay to choose to be fat if you're aware of the risks and making an informed choice, I think some people do want to get thinner but haven't found a sustainable way to control their calories, and I don't think any of these beliefs are mutually exclusive. Supporting a fat person's right to exist the way they see fit is not "glamorizing obesity", and acknowledging the health risks is not "fat shaming".44 -
My only comment here is Lizzo's on her way up, Jillian's on her way down. It's whatever.25
-
She could have left it as "Why do we care?" instead of "It won't be awesome if she gets diabetes".
Health judgments/assumptions don't belong.21 -
I think it was inappropriate, really, for the interviewer to bring it up at all. Of course, fitness celebrity and workout-video business woman will bring up obesity in America. It's her deal. I feel like interviews like this are nothing but tricks to pit more and more people against one another, celebrity and otherwise. Not gonna lie, Lizzo's music is catchy and I get the songs stuck in my head all the time. And like Jillian, I don't care about her weight. It's not my place to determine anything about her, only if I like her music.22
-
Well, Jillian isn't wrong. I don't have any negative opinions about what she said. She probably should have left out any comments at all about her health, and left it at "I like her music. Why should I care about her body?" She didn't need to say anything about obesity causing diabetes or anything like that. Her response to the backlash was appropriate I think, though.
It sucks that as an overweight woman, Lizzo is automatically put on this "body positive" pedestal whereas she should just be popular because people like her music and she's high energy and fun.18 -
I guess I feel like it's really rude to take someone who is just living their life and doing their job and treating them like they're asking to always be some conversation piece about obesity and health.
When we're talking about real individuals with feelings, there's more than just being "right." It's whether or not it is necessary to treat them like they're nothing more than an object lesson for the rest of us.
There are overweight/obese people who are interested in having this conversation, but I don't remember Lizzo ever asking to be part of it which is why I am just struck by the rudeness of Michaels doing this. What's wrong with "Yeah, my kids and I really like her music." Given Michaels' profession and history, nobody is reasonably going to think that she now wants people to be obese just because she admits she sometimes listens to Lizzo.17 -
janejellyroll wrote: »I guess I feel like it's really rude to take someone who is just living their life and doing their job and treating them like they're asking to always be some conversation piece about obesity and health.
When we're talking about real individuals with feelings, there's more than just being "right." It's whether or not it is necessary to treat them like they're nothing more than an object lesson for the rest of us.
There are overweight/obese people who are interested in having this conversation, but I don't remember Lizzo ever asking to be part of it which is why I am just struck by the rudeness of Michaels doing this. What's wrong with "Yeah, my kids and I really like her music." Given Michaels' profession and history, nobody is reasonably going to think that she now wants people to be obese just because she admits she sometimes listens to Lizzo.
to be fair though I'm pretty sure the interviewer wasn't interested in Jillian's taste in music, and the question was part of a larger conversation about health. I think if anyone should be called out for rudeness it would be the interviewer for bringing Lizzo into it.26 -
extra_medium wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »I guess I feel like it's really rude to take someone who is just living their life and doing their job and treating them like they're asking to always be some conversation piece about obesity and health.
When we're talking about real individuals with feelings, there's more than just being "right." It's whether or not it is necessary to treat them like they're nothing more than an object lesson for the rest of us.
There are overweight/obese people who are interested in having this conversation, but I don't remember Lizzo ever asking to be part of it which is why I am just struck by the rudeness of Michaels doing this. What's wrong with "Yeah, my kids and I really like her music." Given Michaels' profession and history, nobody is reasonably going to think that she now wants people to be obese just because she admits she sometimes listens to Lizzo.
to be fair though I'm pretty sure the interviewer wasn't interested in Jillian's taste in music, and the question was part of a larger conversation about health. I think if anyone should be called out for rudeness it would be the interviewer for bringing Lizzo into it.
If someone asks me a question designed to solicit rude commentary, I can either engage with it and be rude or I can choose another path. I'm not sure exactly what the interviewer asked, but I think Michaels is responsible for what she chooses to say.16 -
This is all so very touchy. JM is blunt and in your face. Has that ever changed anything for anyone? Our relatives can be some our harshest critics and all of their brutally, blunt harsh criticism or even calling ourselves names is all counterproductive to our overall health and well being. Apparently, her style didn't stick because those she coached on the BL didn't have lasting results from brutally strict in-your-face hard talk. They didn't find permanent weight stability. Being completely oblivious to the feelings of others doesn't motivate or inspire others to fit your mold and biased way of thinking about everything.5
-
janejellyroll wrote: »I guess I feel like it's really rude to take someone who is just living their life and doing their job and treating them like they're asking to always be some conversation piece about obesity and health.
When we're talking about real individuals with feelings, there's more than just being "right." It's whether or not it is necessary to treat them like they're nothing more than an object lesson for the rest of us.
There are overweight/obese people who are interested in having this conversation, but I don't remember Lizzo ever asking to be part of it which is why I am just struck by the rudeness of Michaels doing this. What's wrong with "Yeah, my kids and I really like her music." Given Michaels' profession and history, nobody is reasonably going to think that she now wants people to be obese just because she admits she sometimes listens to Lizzo.
I agree. Lizzo has been at the center of alot of social media weight scrutiny. I've never heard her promote obesity, but she does not hide her body, and this has led to a lot of internet trolling and bullying of her online, to the point she deleted several of her accounts because it was so hurtful. Considering Jillian is mostly famous for the Biggest Loser, where they were all accused of fat shaming, I'm not surprised an interviewer would ask the question hoping for a viral quote. Especially in the context of Lizzo leaving social media (where music promotion happens) rather than deal with all the negative comments about her size, I think a simple "It's not appropriate to discuss the weight and health of people publicly without their permission" would have been in better taste.
As has been discussed in other debate threads here, I suspect this again involves the question of whether obese people being "allowed" to not be ashamed of their weight equates with society "celebrating" or "glamorizing" an obese person's body, and therefore promoting obesity.25 -
Diatonic12 wrote: »This is all so very touchy. JM is blunt and in your face. Has that ever changed anything for anyone? Our relatives can be some our harshest critics and all of their brutally, blunt harsh criticism or even calling ourselves names is all counterproductive to our overall health and well being. Apparently, her style didn't stick because those she coached on the BL didn't have lasting results from brutally strict in-your-face hard talk. They didn't find permanent weight stability. Being completely oblivious to the feelings of others doesn't motivate or inspire others to fit your mold and biased way of thinking about everything.
I do think that her methods would be ineffective to create lasting inspiration in most people. But I think it is also important to acknowledge that the methods of the show (on which she's just one person) are also apparently ineffective when it comes to creating lasting results -- it's just not sustainable to lose 10-15 pounds a week through eating 1,000 or fewer calories a day while working out for 5-6 hours. In fact, studies have demonstrated that it's actually counter-productive (in that survivors of the show have a very high rate of regaining weight and demonstrate metabolisms that are much slower than they should be).
Yes, her personality meshes well with the "tough love" of the show, but even the less blunt trainers on the show are still cooperating with the premise and their "clients" aren't more successful than hers.2 -
Having heard Lizzo interviewed, she does "celebrate her body", and includes some appearance-related material in her lyrics. I'm not at all saying she shouldn't do either of those things; they're fine. But they do put appearance questions on the table, in contrast to some other musicians who do their musical thing without reference to weight/appearance (but who are also criticized publically for their appearance, of course 🙄😬).
Jillian Michaels seems to be what passes for a fitness and health expert these days, and certainly is a fitness/health celebrity. She does have some professional knowledge/experience that's relevant to questions of weight management and health. In that context, it isn't surprising that interviewers would ask her opinion about something like this, or that she would express concern (that might actually be sincere concern, I don't know) about Lizzo's future health. (That, once pushed, she'd express that in a brash way is completely unsurprising.)
I like Lizzo's music in a casual way, and support her right to be the woman she chooses to be, including bodyweight and her sense of self-value/beauty, as long as it doesn't harm others. I don't personally care for JM, and I do think the interviewers in this case are way more about fanning controversy for reasons of clickbait, and not at all about eliciting useful, thoughtful, expert information for the benefit of readers. That seems reprehensible to me, though I understand what might motivate them to do it. It blows my mind that we would be manipulated by something so transparent, frankly.
And I really, really don't understand why people are interested in this kind of pointless faux controversy - how it helps improve our individual sense of well-being, or ability to live a rewarding life. But it does seem to be "important" in some mysterious cultural way. Meh.
:flowerforyou: to all.28 -
seltzermint555 wrote: »My only comment here is Lizzo's on her way up, Jillian's on her way down. It's whatever.
This I find funny..typical of the general public actually...let us pit two women against each other and see who wins...smh.She could have left it as "Why do we care?" instead of "It won't be awesome if she gets diabetes".
Health judgments/assumptions don't belong.
and this one I didn't see a judgement here...nor an assumption. The quote included "IF"...not when.
not exactly sure why all the uproar...if JM had said Grande or Dion needed to eat a burger a lot of the same people would be laughing and agreeing...never once defending...17 -
Having heard Lizzo interviewed, she does "celebrate her body", and includes some appearance-related material in her lyrics. I'm not at all saying she shouldn't do either of those things; they're fine. But they do put appearance questions on the table, in contrast to some other musicians who do their musical thing without reference to weight/appearance (but who are also criticized publically for their appearance, of course 🙄😬).
Jillian Michaels seems to be what passes for a fitness and health expert these days, and certainly is a fitness/health celebrity. She does have some professional knowledge/experience that's relevant to questions of weight management and health. In that context, it isn't surprising that interviewers would ask her opinion about something like this, or that she would express concern (that might actually be sincere concern, I don't know) about Lizzo's future health. (That, once pushed, she'd express that in a brash way is completely unsurprising.)
I like Lizzo's music in a casual way, and support her right to be the woman she chooses to be, including bodyweight and her sense of self-value/beauty, as long as it doesn't harm others. I don't personally care for JM, and I do think the interviewers in this case are way more about fanning controversy for reasons of clickbait, and not at all about eliciting useful, thoughtful, expert information for the benefit of readers. That seems reprehensible to me, though I understand what might motivate them to do it. It blows my mind that we would be manipulated by something so transparent, frankly.
And I really, really don't understand why people are interested in this kind of pointless faux controversy - how it helps improve our individual sense of well-being, or ability to live a rewarding life. But it does seem to be "important" in some mysterious cultural way. Meh.
:flowerforyou: to all.
My (personal) takeaway is that me saying "Hey, I like my body" (in the context of a society that frequently tells people, and arguably women in particular, that we shouldn't like our bodies unless we fit in a very specific box as relates to weight, skin tone, age, etc) isn't necessarily an open invitation for people to respond with the reasons why they don't like our bodies.
So I understand that Lizzo may have started the conversation about herself, but that wasn't necessarily an invitation on her part for others to join the conversation by explaining why her feelings about herself are wrong.
I admit this is difficult for me to necessarily discuss dispassionately because it's very hard for me to think about what it must feel to have one's body be the source of public debates and criticisms in this way. Could Lizzo keep it from happening (or at least some of it) by being quiet about how she likes herself (or aspires to like herself)?
Part of this is that I read Lizzo's comments not as an unprompted statement of self-love, but as a specific response to how the world talks to/about women who look like her. So I don't think Michaels is entited to respond however she wants (I am not reading your comments as an argument saying that, btw).14 -
janejellyroll wrote: »Having heard Lizzo interviewed, she does "celebrate her body", and includes some appearance-related material in her lyrics. I'm not at all saying she shouldn't do either of those things; they're fine. But they do put appearance questions on the table, in contrast to some other musicians who do their musical thing without reference to weight/appearance (but who are also criticized publically for their appearance, of course 🙄😬).
Jillian Michaels seems to be what passes for a fitness and health expert these days, and certainly is a fitness/health celebrity. She does have some professional knowledge/experience that's relevant to questions of weight management and health. In that context, it isn't surprising that interviewers would ask her opinion about something like this, or that she would express concern (that might actually be sincere concern, I don't know) about Lizzo's future health. (That, once pushed, she'd express that in a brash way is completely unsurprising.)
I like Lizzo's music in a casual way, and support her right to be the woman she chooses to be, including bodyweight and her sense of self-value/beauty, as long as it doesn't harm others. I don't personally care for JM, and I do think the interviewers in this case are way more about fanning controversy for reasons of clickbait, and not at all about eliciting useful, thoughtful, expert information for the benefit of readers. That seems reprehensible to me, though I understand what might motivate them to do it. It blows my mind that we would be manipulated by something so transparent, frankly.
And I really, really don't understand why people are interested in this kind of pointless faux controversy - how it helps improve our individual sense of well-being, or ability to live a rewarding life. But it does seem to be "important" in some mysterious cultural way. Meh.
:flowerforyou: to all.
My (personal) takeaway is that me saying "Hey, I like my body" (in the context of a society that frequently tells people, and arguably women in particular, that we shouldn't like our bodies unless we fit in a very specific box as relates to weight, skin tone, age, etc) isn't necessarily an open invitation for people to respond with the reasons why they don't like our bodies.
So I understand that Lizzo may have started the conversation about herself, but that wasn't necessarily an invitation on her part for others to join the conversation by explaining why her feelings about herself are wrong.
I admit this is difficult for me to necessarily discuss dispassionately because it's very hard for me to think about what it must feel to have one's body be the source of public debates and criticisms in this way. Could Lizzo keep it from happening (or at least some of it) by being quiet about how she likes herself (or aspires to like herself)?
Part of this is that I read Lizzo's comments not as an unprompted statement of self-love, but as a specific response to how the world talks to/about women who look like her. So I don't think Michaels is entited to respond however she wants (I am not reading your comments as an argument saying that, btw).
Indeed, I'm in complete agreement with you. (And probably should have said I didn't consider Lizzo talking about it to be an invitation to criticism, just that it was a little more understandable (not defensible) in her case why people would comment in reaction. We say stuff, other people say stuff back: Common communication model.
My main point is: Why should we care? Why should we spread and happily chew over this kind of stuff? These are not our neighbors, not our friends, not actual people most of us know as full and nuanced human beings (though they are that in real life), not people we seem to me to be entitled to opinions about (unrelated to tastes/preferences/technical stuff about their professional output, anyway) in part because our opinions will be likely to be more manipulated (by the clickbaiters) than fact-based.
OP, this is completely a joke, and meant kindly, but . . . are you a publicist for Lizzo or JM?
Not to OP, but in general: In what way do our manipulated, poorly-informed opinions on this have meaning or value? (I guess it helps us know each other better, but lots of topics can accomplish that).
(/cranky old lady)7 -
Would I say it? No. Am I surprised she said it? No.5
-
Further proof that we have become addicted to outrage.
Seems as if it's one comment taken out of context and responding to a statement by the interviewer:
"I love that they’re putting images out there that we don’t normally don’t get to see of bodies we don’t get to see being celebrated."
Taken within the context of the conversation a completely rational question. Would there be any controversy if she made a comment regarding any other risk mitigating measure?
7 -
janejellyroll wrote: »Having heard Lizzo interviewed, she does "celebrate her body", and includes some appearance-related material in her lyrics. I'm not at all saying she shouldn't do either of those things; they're fine. But they do put appearance questions on the table, in contrast to some other musicians who do their musical thing without reference to weight/appearance (but who are also criticized publically for their appearance, of course 🙄😬).
Jillian Michaels seems to be what passes for a fitness and health expert these days, and certainly is a fitness/health celebrity. She does have some professional knowledge/experience that's relevant to questions of weight management and health. In that context, it isn't surprising that interviewers would ask her opinion about something like this, or that she would express concern (that might actually be sincere concern, I don't know) about Lizzo's future health. (That, once pushed, she'd express that in a brash way is completely unsurprising.)
I like Lizzo's music in a casual way, and support her right to be the woman she chooses to be, including bodyweight and her sense of self-value/beauty, as long as it doesn't harm others. I don't personally care for JM, and I do think the interviewers in this case are way more about fanning controversy for reasons of clickbait, and not at all about eliciting useful, thoughtful, expert information for the benefit of readers. That seems reprehensible to me, though I understand what might motivate them to do it. It blows my mind that we would be manipulated by something so transparent, frankly.
And I really, really don't understand why people are interested in this kind of pointless faux controversy - how it helps improve our individual sense of well-being, or ability to live a rewarding life. But it does seem to be "important" in some mysterious cultural way. Meh.
:flowerforyou: to all.
My (personal) takeaway is that me saying "Hey, I like my body" (in the context of a society that frequently tells people, and arguably women in particular, that we shouldn't like our bodies unless we fit in a very specific box as relates to weight, skin tone, age, etc) isn't necessarily an open invitation for people to respond with the reasons why they don't like our bodies.
So I understand that Lizzo may have started the conversation about herself, but that wasn't necessarily an invitation on her part for others to join the conversation by explaining why her feelings about herself are wrong.
I admit this is difficult for me to necessarily discuss dispassionately because it's very hard for me to think about what it must feel to have one's body be the source of public debates and criticisms in this way. Could Lizzo keep it from happening (or at least some of it) by being quiet about how she likes herself (or aspires to like herself)?
Part of this is that I read Lizzo's comments not as an unprompted statement of self-love, but as a specific response to how the world talks to/about women who look like her. So I don't think Michaels is entited to respond however she wants (I am not reading your comments as an argument saying that, btw).
Indeed, I'm in complete agreement with you. (And probably should have said I didn't consider Lizzo talking about it to be an invitation to criticism, just that it was a little more understandable (not defensible) in her case why people would comment in reaction. We say stuff, other people say stuff back: Common communication model.
My main point is: Why should we care? Why should we spread and happily chew over this kind of stuff? These are not our neighbors, not our friends, not actual people most of us know as full and nuanced human beings (though they are that in real life), not people we seem to me to be entitled to opinions about (unrelated to tastes/preferences/technical stuff about their professional output, anyway) in part because our opinions will be likely to be more manipulated (by the clickbaiters) than fact-based.
OP, this is completely a joke, and meant kindly, but . . . are you a publicist for Lizzo or JM?
Not to OP, but in general: In what way do our manipulated, poorly-informed opinions on this have meaning or value? (I guess it helps us know each other better, but lots of topics can accomplish that).
(/cranky old lady)
To be clear, I'm not involved in publicity or media at all.
I care, to the extent I do, because conversations like this make me think about how I would feel if someone was treating my body like a subject for public discussion in that way. So I can't help identifying with Lizzo or anybody who is being treated more like a public policy or health problem than an actual person (obviously I can help it, I just don't feel like it).
I see a big difference between a more general "Hey, here are some of the health problems that are associated with obesity" in a public policy debate and a pop culture take of "Lizzo, this particular person, is going to get diabetes and she needs to like herself less" (obviously a crude paraphrasing of the comments actually made).
Why should you care? I don't think you should and I'm not looking to convince anyone that they should pay any more attention to this than they want to. I have no doubt there are things that rub you the wrong way that I wouldn't notice at all. Does that make me a worse person than you? No (any worseness of mine is due to completely independent reasons!).
I'm not even arguing that Michaels should face any consequences for what she said. I already wasn't an audience or consumer of hers and that is going to continue. People that like her are going to continue to like her and I'm not even arguing that they shouldn't. Is this going to move the needle at all on public opinion of her? I doubt it. It's not like her thoughts about obese people were hidden. That "I have disdain for obese people for their own good" thing is her well-honed brand.5 -
janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Having heard Lizzo interviewed, she does "celebrate her body", and includes some appearance-related material in her lyrics. I'm not at all saying she shouldn't do either of those things; they're fine. But they do put appearance questions on the table, in contrast to some other musicians who do their musical thing without reference to weight/appearance (but who are also criticized publically for their appearance, of course 🙄😬).
Jillian Michaels seems to be what passes for a fitness and health expert these days, and certainly is a fitness/health celebrity. She does have some professional knowledge/experience that's relevant to questions of weight management and health. In that context, it isn't surprising that interviewers would ask her opinion about something like this, or that she would express concern (that might actually be sincere concern, I don't know) about Lizzo's future health. (That, once pushed, she'd express that in a brash way is completely unsurprising.)
I like Lizzo's music in a casual way, and support her right to be the woman she chooses to be, including bodyweight and her sense of self-value/beauty, as long as it doesn't harm others. I don't personally care for JM, and I do think the interviewers in this case are way more about fanning controversy for reasons of clickbait, and not at all about eliciting useful, thoughtful, expert information for the benefit of readers. That seems reprehensible to me, though I understand what might motivate them to do it. It blows my mind that we would be manipulated by something so transparent, frankly.
And I really, really don't understand why people are interested in this kind of pointless faux controversy - how it helps improve our individual sense of well-being, or ability to live a rewarding life. But it does seem to be "important" in some mysterious cultural way. Meh.
:flowerforyou: to all.
My (personal) takeaway is that me saying "Hey, I like my body" (in the context of a society that frequently tells people, and arguably women in particular, that we shouldn't like our bodies unless we fit in a very specific box as relates to weight, skin tone, age, etc) isn't necessarily an open invitation for people to respond with the reasons why they don't like our bodies.
So I understand that Lizzo may have started the conversation about herself, but that wasn't necessarily an invitation on her part for others to join the conversation by explaining why her feelings about herself are wrong.
I admit this is difficult for me to necessarily discuss dispassionately because it's very hard for me to think about what it must feel to have one's body be the source of public debates and criticisms in this way. Could Lizzo keep it from happening (or at least some of it) by being quiet about how she likes herself (or aspires to like herself)?
Part of this is that I read Lizzo's comments not as an unprompted statement of self-love, but as a specific response to how the world talks to/about women who look like her. So I don't think Michaels is entited to respond however she wants (I am not reading your comments as an argument saying that, btw).
Indeed, I'm in complete agreement with you. (And probably should have said I didn't consider Lizzo talking about it to be an invitation to criticism, just that it was a little more understandable (not defensible) in her case why people would comment in reaction. We say stuff, other people say stuff back: Common communication model.
My main point is: Why should we care? Why should we spread and happily chew over this kind of stuff? These are not our neighbors, not our friends, not actual people most of us know as full and nuanced human beings (though they are that in real life), not people we seem to me to be entitled to opinions about (unrelated to tastes/preferences/technical stuff about their professional output, anyway) in part because our opinions will be likely to be more manipulated (by the clickbaiters) than fact-based.
OP, this is completely a joke, and meant kindly, but . . . are you a publicist for Lizzo or JM?
Not to OP, but in general: In what way do our manipulated, poorly-informed opinions on this have meaning or value? (I guess it helps us know each other better, but lots of topics can accomplish that).
(/cranky old lady)
To be clear, I'm not involved in publicity or media at all.
I care, to the extent I do, because conversations like this make me think about how I would feel if someone was treating my body like a subject for public discussion in that way. So I can't help identifying with Lizzo or anybody who is being treated more like a public policy or health problem than an actual person (obviously I can help it, I just don't feel like it).
I see a big difference between a more general "Hey, here are some of the health problems that are associated with obesity" in a public policy debate and a pop culture take of "Lizzo, this particular person, is going to get diabetes and she needs to like herself less" (obviously a crude paraphrasing of the comments actually made).
Why should you care? I don't think you should and I'm not looking to convince anyone that they should pay any more attention to this than they want to. I have no doubt there are things that rub you the wrong way that I wouldn't notice at all. Does that make me a worse person than you? No (any worseness of mine is due to completely independent reasons!).
I'm not even arguing that Michaels should face any consequences for what she said. I already wasn't an audience or consumer of hers and that is going to continue. People that like her are going to continue to like her and I'm not even arguing that they shouldn't. Is this going to move the needle at all on public opinion of her? I doubt it. It's not like her thoughts about obese people were hidden. That "I have disdain for obese people for their own good" thing is her well-honed brand.
To bolded #1: Sure, that makes sense to me. But that's part of why I question this kind of conversation, which seems like it may fan those kind of flames in a culture sense, even though it's a conversation about the celebrities' remarks, rather than a conversation that inherently makes similar remarks. (It does tend to make people in this kind of conversation underscore one "side" or the other, I think.)
To bolded #2: If there was an implication of that, in what I said, I apologize. I have no platform for suggesting other people are worse than me (unless they're literally like that Godwin's-Law trigger dude ), or feeling like I'm better than anyone. I hope expressing an opinion about the meta of the conversation doesn't create the impression that I think otherwise.
Culturally, I think it can be better to ignore certain kinds of nonsense, vs. critique it, though that's a pretty nuanced kind of thing. The clickbaiters don't create culture, though they sort of push it along, often quite strongly. In a meaningful sense, we collectively create culture, I think. If the clickbait-slingers are the wind, and we are the waves, buffetted around, that's one thing; if we increase the winds' force, that's another. The difference is of course subtle and arguable.4 -
janejellyroll wrote: »Having heard Lizzo interviewed, she does "celebrate her body", and includes some appearance-related material in her lyrics. I'm not at all saying she shouldn't do either of those things; they're fine. But they do put appearance questions on the table, in contrast to some other musicians who do their musical thing without reference to weight/appearance (but who are also criticized publically for their appearance, of course 🙄😬).
Jillian Michaels seems to be what passes for a fitness and health expert these days, and certainly is a fitness/health celebrity. She does have some professional knowledge/experience that's relevant to questions of weight management and health. In that context, it isn't surprising that interviewers would ask her opinion about something like this, or that she would express concern (that might actually be sincere concern, I don't know) about Lizzo's future health. (That, once pushed, she'd express that in a brash way is completely unsurprising.)
I like Lizzo's music in a casual way, and support her right to be the woman she chooses to be, including bodyweight and her sense of self-value/beauty, as long as it doesn't harm others. I don't personally care for JM, and I do think the interviewers in this case are way more about fanning controversy for reasons of clickbait, and not at all about eliciting useful, thoughtful, expert information for the benefit of readers. That seems reprehensible to me, though I understand what might motivate them to do it. It blows my mind that we would be manipulated by something so transparent, frankly.
And I really, really don't understand why people are interested in this kind of pointless faux controversy - how it helps improve our individual sense of well-being, or ability to live a rewarding life. But it does seem to be "important" in some mysterious cultural way. Meh.
:flowerforyou: to all.
My (personal) takeaway is that me saying "Hey, I like my body" (in the context of a society that frequently tells people, and arguably women in particular, that we shouldn't like our bodies unless we fit in a very specific box as relates to weight, skin tone, age, etc) isn't necessarily an open invitation for people to respond with the reasons why they don't like our bodies.
So I understand that Lizzo may have started the conversation about herself, but that wasn't necessarily an invitation on her part for others to join the conversation by explaining why her feelings about herself are wrong.
I admit this is difficult for me to necessarily discuss dispassionately because it's very hard for me to think about what it must feel to have one's body be the source of public debates and criticisms in this way. Could Lizzo keep it from happening (or at least some of it) by being quiet about how she likes herself (or aspires to like herself)?
Part of this is that I read Lizzo's comments not as an unprompted statement of self-love, but as a specific response to how the world talks to/about women who look like her. So I don't think Michaels is entited to respond however she wants (I am not reading your comments as an argument saying that, btw).
I again just basically wanted to second what you are saying Obese women in the public eye get a lot of nasty comments about their appearance regardless of how they dress or what they say. If they defend themselves to those comments by speaking positively about their body, then they are promoting obesity. If they lose weight (like Adele) then they are criticized for looking too thin, or from other corners for forsaking their overweight fans. Honestly, it's the same crap most famous women put up with. That can be seen in some of the crass comments made about Michaels' appearance included in many criticisms of her criticism <sigh>.
People shouldn't have trolled Lizzo online about her weight. The reporter shouldn't have tried to profit off that trolling by asking Michaels about it. Jillian should have deflected it rather than seem to be piling on.
It's possible to be glad a celebrity is living the hell out of their lives while overweight, while at the same time hoping they eventually lose the weight so they'll be healthier, all while never making a public judgement. Which I guess we all just jumped into headlong, whoops7 -
So I’m just wondering, why are a 7 and 10 year old listening to her?3
-
janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Having heard Lizzo interviewed, she does "celebrate her body", and includes some appearance-related material in her lyrics. I'm not at all saying she shouldn't do either of those things; they're fine. But they do put appearance questions on the table, in contrast to some other musicians who do their musical thing without reference to weight/appearance (but who are also criticized publically for their appearance, of course 🙄😬).
Jillian Michaels seems to be what passes for a fitness and health expert these days, and certainly is a fitness/health celebrity. She does have some professional knowledge/experience that's relevant to questions of weight management and health. In that context, it isn't surprising that interviewers would ask her opinion about something like this, or that she would express concern (that might actually be sincere concern, I don't know) about Lizzo's future health. (That, once pushed, she'd express that in a brash way is completely unsurprising.)
I like Lizzo's music in a casual way, and support her right to be the woman she chooses to be, including bodyweight and her sense of self-value/beauty, as long as it doesn't harm others. I don't personally care for JM, and I do think the interviewers in this case are way more about fanning controversy for reasons of clickbait, and not at all about eliciting useful, thoughtful, expert information for the benefit of readers. That seems reprehensible to me, though I understand what might motivate them to do it. It blows my mind that we would be manipulated by something so transparent, frankly.
And I really, really don't understand why people are interested in this kind of pointless faux controversy - how it helps improve our individual sense of well-being, or ability to live a rewarding life. But it does seem to be "important" in some mysterious cultural way. Meh.
:flowerforyou: to all.
My (personal) takeaway is that me saying "Hey, I like my body" (in the context of a society that frequently tells people, and arguably women in particular, that we shouldn't like our bodies unless we fit in a very specific box as relates to weight, skin tone, age, etc) isn't necessarily an open invitation for people to respond with the reasons why they don't like our bodies.
So I understand that Lizzo may have started the conversation about herself, but that wasn't necessarily an invitation on her part for others to join the conversation by explaining why her feelings about herself are wrong.
I admit this is difficult for me to necessarily discuss dispassionately because it's very hard for me to think about what it must feel to have one's body be the source of public debates and criticisms in this way. Could Lizzo keep it from happening (or at least some of it) by being quiet about how she likes herself (or aspires to like herself)?
Part of this is that I read Lizzo's comments not as an unprompted statement of self-love, but as a specific response to how the world talks to/about women who look like her. So I don't think Michaels is entited to respond however she wants (I am not reading your comments as an argument saying that, btw).
Indeed, I'm in complete agreement with you. (And probably should have said I didn't consider Lizzo talking about it to be an invitation to criticism, just that it was a little more understandable (not defensible) in her case why people would comment in reaction. We say stuff, other people say stuff back: Common communication model.
My main point is: Why should we care? Why should we spread and happily chew over this kind of stuff? These are not our neighbors, not our friends, not actual people most of us know as full and nuanced human beings (though they are that in real life), not people we seem to me to be entitled to opinions about (unrelated to tastes/preferences/technical stuff about their professional output, anyway) in part because our opinions will be likely to be more manipulated (by the clickbaiters) than fact-based.
OP, this is completely a joke, and meant kindly, but . . . are you a publicist for Lizzo or JM?
Not to OP, but in general: In what way do our manipulated, poorly-informed opinions on this have meaning or value? (I guess it helps us know each other better, but lots of topics can accomplish that).
(/cranky old lady)
To be clear, I'm not involved in publicity or media at all.
I care, to the extent I do, because conversations like this make me think about how I would feel if someone was treating my body like a subject for public discussion in that way. So I can't help identifying with Lizzo or anybody who is being treated more like a public policy or health problem than an actual person (obviously I can help it, I just don't feel like it).
I see a big difference between a more general "Hey, here are some of the health problems that are associated with obesity" in a public policy debate and a pop culture take of "Lizzo, this particular person, is going to get diabetes and she needs to like herself less" (obviously a crude paraphrasing of the comments actually made).
Why should you care? I don't think you should and I'm not looking to convince anyone that they should pay any more attention to this than they want to. I have no doubt there are things that rub you the wrong way that I wouldn't notice at all. Does that make me a worse person than you? No (any worseness of mine is due to completely independent reasons!).
I'm not even arguing that Michaels should face any consequences for what she said. I already wasn't an audience or consumer of hers and that is going to continue. People that like her are going to continue to like her and I'm not even arguing that they shouldn't. Is this going to move the needle at all on public opinion of her? I doubt it. It's not like her thoughts about obese people were hidden. That "I have disdain for obese people for their own good" thing is her well-honed brand.
To bolded #1: Sure, that makes sense to me. But that's part of why I question this kind of conversation, which seems like it may fan those kind of flames in a culture sense, even though it's a conversation about the celebrities' remarks, rather than a conversation that inherently makes similar remarks. (It does tend to make people in this kind of conversation underscore one "side" or the other, I think.)
To bolded #2: If there was an implication of that, in what I said, I apologize. I have no platform for suggesting other people are worse than me (unless they're literally like that Godwin's-Law trigger dude ), or feeling like I'm better than anyone. I hope expressing an opinion about the meta of the conversation doesn't create the impression that I think otherwise.
Culturally, I think it can be better to ignore certain kinds of nonsense, vs. critique it, though that's a pretty nuanced kind of thing. The clickbaiters don't create culture, though they sort of push it along, often quite strongly. In a meaningful sense, we collectively create culture, I think. If the clickbait-slingers are the wind, and we are the waves, buffetted around, that's one thing; if we increase the winds' force, that's another. The difference is of course subtle and arguable.
To bolded two: I was stating that I don't consider myself a better person because I didn't like Michaels' comments and someone else doesn't see a problem with them. I didn't think you thought I was *worse*. I think this is a situation where someone can be bothered or un-bothered without us being able to draw particular conclusions about them.
I can certainly understand the point that this is the type of thing we might be better off ignoring, but that said . . . I'm not inclined to ignore it. That's due to the previously stated fact that it does strike an emotional chord for me. I just feel empathy for Lizzo here (while also recognizing that she doesn't particularly *need* my empathy and is doing fine).4 -
janejellyroll wrote: »Having heard Lizzo interviewed, she does "celebrate her body", and includes some appearance-related material in her lyrics. I'm not at all saying she shouldn't do either of those things; they're fine. But they do put appearance questions on the table, in contrast to some other musicians who do their musical thing without reference to weight/appearance (but who are also criticized publically for their appearance, of course 🙄😬).
Jillian Michaels seems to be what passes for a fitness and health expert these days, and certainly is a fitness/health celebrity. She does have some professional knowledge/experience that's relevant to questions of weight management and health. In that context, it isn't surprising that interviewers would ask her opinion about something like this, or that she would express concern (that might actually be sincere concern, I don't know) about Lizzo's future health. (That, once pushed, she'd express that in a brash way is completely unsurprising.)
I like Lizzo's music in a casual way, and support her right to be the woman she chooses to be, including bodyweight and her sense of self-value/beauty, as long as it doesn't harm others. I don't personally care for JM, and I do think the interviewers in this case are way more about fanning controversy for reasons of clickbait, and not at all about eliciting useful, thoughtful, expert information for the benefit of readers. That seems reprehensible to me, though I understand what might motivate them to do it. It blows my mind that we would be manipulated by something so transparent, frankly.
And I really, really don't understand why people are interested in this kind of pointless faux controversy - how it helps improve our individual sense of well-being, or ability to live a rewarding life. But it does seem to be "important" in some mysterious cultural way. Meh.
:flowerforyou: to all.
My (personal) takeaway is that me saying "Hey, I like my body" (in the context of a society that frequently tells people, and arguably women in particular, that we shouldn't like our bodies unless we fit in a very specific box as relates to weight, skin tone, age, etc) isn't necessarily an open invitation for people to respond with the reasons why they don't like our bodies.
So I understand that Lizzo may have started the conversation about herself, but that wasn't necessarily an invitation on her part for others to join the conversation by explaining why her feelings about herself are wrong.
I admit this is difficult for me to necessarily discuss dispassionately because it's very hard for me to think about what it must feel to have one's body be the source of public debates and criticisms in this way. Could Lizzo keep it from happening (or at least some of it) by being quiet about how she likes herself (or aspires to like herself)?
Part of this is that I read Lizzo's comments not as an unprompted statement of self-love, but as a specific response to how the world talks to/about women who look like her. So I don't think Michaels is entited to respond however she wants (I am not reading your comments as an argument saying that, btw).
I again just basically wanted to second what you are saying Obese women in the public eye get a lot of nasty comments about their appearance regardless of how they dress or what they say. If they defend themselves to those comments by speaking positively about their body, then they are promoting obesity. If they lose weight (like Adele) then they are criticized for looking too thin, or from other corners for forsaking their overweight fans. Honestly, it's the same crap most famous women put up with. That can be seen in some of the crass comments made about Michaels' appearance included in many criticisms of her criticism <sigh>.
People shouldn't have trolled Lizzo online about her weight. The reporter shouldn't have tried to profit off that trolling by asking Michaels about it. Jillian should have deflected it rather than seem to be piling on.
It's possible to be glad a celebrity is living the hell out of their lives while overweight, while at the same time hoping they eventually lose the weight so they'll be healthier, all while never making a public judgement. Which I guess we all just jumped into headlong, whoops
Yes, famous women can't choose not to not have people criticize their bodies. It's up to them whether or not they participate in the conversation. I can't fault Lizzo for choosing to participate in the conversation about her body.
I fully support women choosing to lose weight. I also don't expect women to hate themselves or dislike their bodies if they're choosing not to lose weight in a particular moment. I'm guessing that Lizzo knows as much about the health risks of obesity as I do. She doesn't *need* to be reminded constantly of something she's apparently choosing not to act on, just I don't need to be reminded of health risks I'm currently choosing to disregard or not act on. The part of the conversation that is like "but Lizzo (or other fat people) NEED TO KNOW," I'm not sure what people think they don't already know.
Someone who is fat is fat. I don't *need* them to be unhappy and fat just to validate my own decision not to be fat. I can't help but feel that is an element for some people here (to be clear: not anyone in this thread, but some of the people who criticize Lizzo). They're not bothered by her fatness, but by the combination of the fatness with the happiness. There's this perception that people are going to DECIDE to be fat because Lizzo is fat and apparently happy with it. I'm not convinced that is a reasonable concern.
And I agree, people who respond to this by criticizing what Michaels looks like are completely part of the problem.8
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 393.4K Introduce Yourself
- 43.8K Getting Started
- 260.2K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.9K Food and Nutrition
- 47.4K Recipes
- 232.5K Fitness and Exercise
- 424 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.5K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 153K Motivation and Support
- 8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.3K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.7K MyFitnessPal Information
- 24 News and Announcements
- 1.1K Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.6K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions