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Jillian Michael comments about Lizzo

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  • sammidelvecchiosammidelvecchio Posts: 766Member Member Posts: 766Member Member
    Would I say it? No. Am I surprised she said it? No.
  • AnnPT77AnnPT77 Posts: 13,696Member Member Posts: 13,696Member Member
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    Having heard Lizzo interviewed, she does "celebrate her body", and includes some appearance-related material in her lyrics. I'm not at all saying she shouldn't do either of those things; they're fine. But they do put appearance questions on the table, in contrast to some other musicians who do their musical thing without reference to weight/appearance (but who are also criticized publically for their appearance, of course 🙄😬).

    Jillian Michaels seems to be what passes for a fitness and health expert these days, and certainly is a fitness/health celebrity. She does have some professional knowledge/experience that's relevant to questions of weight management and health. In that context, it isn't surprising that interviewers would ask her opinion about something like this, or that she would express concern (that might actually be sincere concern, I don't know) about Lizzo's future health. (That, once pushed, she'd express that in a brash way is completely unsurprising.)

    I like Lizzo's music in a casual way, and support her right to be the woman she chooses to be, including bodyweight and her sense of self-value/beauty, as long as it doesn't harm others. I don't personally care for JM, and I do think the interviewers in this case are way more about fanning controversy for reasons of clickbait, and not at all about eliciting useful, thoughtful, expert information for the benefit of readers. That seems reprehensible to me, though I understand what might motivate them to do it. It blows my mind that we would be manipulated by something so transparent, frankly.

    And I really, really don't understand why people are interested in this kind of pointless faux controversy - how it helps improve our individual sense of well-being, or ability to live a rewarding life. But it does seem to be "important" in some mysterious cultural way. Meh.

    :flowerforyou: to all.

    My (personal) takeaway is that me saying "Hey, I like my body" (in the context of a society that frequently tells people, and arguably women in particular, that we shouldn't like our bodies unless we fit in a very specific box as relates to weight, skin tone, age, etc) isn't necessarily an open invitation for people to respond with the reasons why they don't like our bodies.

    So I understand that Lizzo may have started the conversation about herself, but that wasn't necessarily an invitation on her part for others to join the conversation by explaining why her feelings about herself are wrong.

    I admit this is difficult for me to necessarily discuss dispassionately because it's very hard for me to think about what it must feel to have one's body be the source of public debates and criticisms in this way. Could Lizzo keep it from happening (or at least some of it) by being quiet about how she likes herself (or aspires to like herself)?

    Part of this is that I read Lizzo's comments not as an unprompted statement of self-love, but as a specific response to how the world talks to/about women who look like her. So I don't think Michaels is entited to respond however she wants (I am not reading your comments as an argument saying that, btw).

    Indeed, I'm in complete agreement with you. (And probably should have said I didn't consider Lizzo talking about it to be an invitation to criticism, just that it was a little more understandable (not defensible) in her case why people would comment in reaction. We say stuff, other people say stuff back: Common communication model. ;)

    My main point is: Why should we care? Why should we spread and happily chew over this kind of stuff? These are not our neighbors, not our friends, not actual people most of us know as full and nuanced human beings (though they are that in real life), not people we seem to me to be entitled to opinions about (unrelated to tastes/preferences/technical stuff about their professional output, anyway) in part because our opinions will be likely to be more manipulated (by the clickbaiters) than fact-based.

    OP, this is completely a joke, and meant kindly, but . . . are you a publicist for Lizzo or JM?

    Not to OP, but in general: In what way do our manipulated, poorly-informed opinions on this have meaning or value? (I guess it helps us know each other better, but lots of topics can accomplish that).

    (/cranky old lady)

    To be clear, I'm not involved in publicity or media at all. :)

    I care, to the extent I do, because conversations like this make me think about how I would feel if someone was treating my body like a subject for public discussion in that way. So I can't help identifying with Lizzo or anybody who is being treated more like a public policy or health problem than an actual person (obviously I can help it, I just don't feel like it).

    I see a big difference between a more general "Hey, here are some of the health problems that are associated with obesity" in a public policy debate and a pop culture take of "Lizzo, this particular person, is going to get diabetes and she needs to like herself less" (obviously a crude paraphrasing of the comments actually made).

    Why should you care? I don't think you should and I'm not looking to convince anyone that they should pay any more attention to this than they want to. I have no doubt there are things that rub you the wrong way that I wouldn't notice at all. Does that make me a worse person than you? No (any worseness of mine is due to completely independent reasons!).

    I'm not even arguing that Michaels should face any consequences for what she said. I already wasn't an audience or consumer of hers and that is going to continue. People that like her are going to continue to like her and I'm not even arguing that they shouldn't. Is this going to move the needle at all on public opinion of her? I doubt it. It's not like her thoughts about obese people were hidden. That "I have disdain for obese people for their own good" thing is her well-honed brand.

    To bolded #1: Sure, that makes sense to me. But that's part of why I question this kind of conversation, which seems like it may fan those kind of flames in a culture sense, even though it's a conversation about the celebrities' remarks, rather than a conversation that inherently makes similar remarks. (It does tend to make people in this kind of conversation underscore one "side" or the other, I think.)

    To bolded #2: If there was an implication of that, in what I said, I apologize. I have no platform for suggesting other people are worse than me (unless they're literally like that Godwin's-Law trigger dude ;) ), or feeling like I'm better than anyone. I hope expressing an opinion about the meta of the conversation doesn't create the impression that I think otherwise.

    Culturally, I think it can be better to ignore certain kinds of nonsense, vs. critique it, though that's a pretty nuanced kind of thing. The clickbaiters don't create culture, though they sort of push it along, often quite strongly. In a meaningful sense, we collectively create culture, I think. If the clickbait-slingers are the wind, and we are the waves, buffetted around, that's one thing; if we increase the winds' force, that's another. ;) The difference is of course subtle and arguable. ;)
  • corinasue1143corinasue1143 Posts: 2,905Member Member Posts: 2,905Member Member
    So I’m just wondering, why are a 7 and 10 year old listening to her?
  • janejellyrolljanejellyroll Posts: 21,498Member Member Posts: 21,498Member Member
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    Having heard Lizzo interviewed, she does "celebrate her body", and includes some appearance-related material in her lyrics. I'm not at all saying she shouldn't do either of those things; they're fine. But they do put appearance questions on the table, in contrast to some other musicians who do their musical thing without reference to weight/appearance (but who are also criticized publically for their appearance, of course 🙄😬).

    Jillian Michaels seems to be what passes for a fitness and health expert these days, and certainly is a fitness/health celebrity. She does have some professional knowledge/experience that's relevant to questions of weight management and health. In that context, it isn't surprising that interviewers would ask her opinion about something like this, or that she would express concern (that might actually be sincere concern, I don't know) about Lizzo's future health. (That, once pushed, she'd express that in a brash way is completely unsurprising.)

    I like Lizzo's music in a casual way, and support her right to be the woman she chooses to be, including bodyweight and her sense of self-value/beauty, as long as it doesn't harm others. I don't personally care for JM, and I do think the interviewers in this case are way more about fanning controversy for reasons of clickbait, and not at all about eliciting useful, thoughtful, expert information for the benefit of readers. That seems reprehensible to me, though I understand what might motivate them to do it. It blows my mind that we would be manipulated by something so transparent, frankly.

    And I really, really don't understand why people are interested in this kind of pointless faux controversy - how it helps improve our individual sense of well-being, or ability to live a rewarding life. But it does seem to be "important" in some mysterious cultural way. Meh.

    :flowerforyou: to all.

    My (personal) takeaway is that me saying "Hey, I like my body" (in the context of a society that frequently tells people, and arguably women in particular, that we shouldn't like our bodies unless we fit in a very specific box as relates to weight, skin tone, age, etc) isn't necessarily an open invitation for people to respond with the reasons why they don't like our bodies.

    So I understand that Lizzo may have started the conversation about herself, but that wasn't necessarily an invitation on her part for others to join the conversation by explaining why her feelings about herself are wrong.

    I admit this is difficult for me to necessarily discuss dispassionately because it's very hard for me to think about what it must feel to have one's body be the source of public debates and criticisms in this way. Could Lizzo keep it from happening (or at least some of it) by being quiet about how she likes herself (or aspires to like herself)?

    Part of this is that I read Lizzo's comments not as an unprompted statement of self-love, but as a specific response to how the world talks to/about women who look like her. So I don't think Michaels is entited to respond however she wants (I am not reading your comments as an argument saying that, btw).

    Indeed, I'm in complete agreement with you. (And probably should have said I didn't consider Lizzo talking about it to be an invitation to criticism, just that it was a little more understandable (not defensible) in her case why people would comment in reaction. We say stuff, other people say stuff back: Common communication model. ;)

    My main point is: Why should we care? Why should we spread and happily chew over this kind of stuff? These are not our neighbors, not our friends, not actual people most of us know as full and nuanced human beings (though they are that in real life), not people we seem to me to be entitled to opinions about (unrelated to tastes/preferences/technical stuff about their professional output, anyway) in part because our opinions will be likely to be more manipulated (by the clickbaiters) than fact-based.

    OP, this is completely a joke, and meant kindly, but . . . are you a publicist for Lizzo or JM?

    Not to OP, but in general: In what way do our manipulated, poorly-informed opinions on this have meaning or value? (I guess it helps us know each other better, but lots of topics can accomplish that).

    (/cranky old lady)

    To be clear, I'm not involved in publicity or media at all. :)

    I care, to the extent I do, because conversations like this make me think about how I would feel if someone was treating my body like a subject for public discussion in that way. So I can't help identifying with Lizzo or anybody who is being treated more like a public policy or health problem than an actual person (obviously I can help it, I just don't feel like it).

    I see a big difference between a more general "Hey, here are some of the health problems that are associated with obesity" in a public policy debate and a pop culture take of "Lizzo, this particular person, is going to get diabetes and she needs to like herself less" (obviously a crude paraphrasing of the comments actually made).

    Why should you care? I don't think you should and I'm not looking to convince anyone that they should pay any more attention to this than they want to. I have no doubt there are things that rub you the wrong way that I wouldn't notice at all. Does that make me a worse person than you? No (any worseness of mine is due to completely independent reasons!).

    I'm not even arguing that Michaels should face any consequences for what she said. I already wasn't an audience or consumer of hers and that is going to continue. People that like her are going to continue to like her and I'm not even arguing that they shouldn't. Is this going to move the needle at all on public opinion of her? I doubt it. It's not like her thoughts about obese people were hidden. That "I have disdain for obese people for their own good" thing is her well-honed brand.

    To bolded #1: Sure, that makes sense to me. But that's part of why I question this kind of conversation, which seems like it may fan those kind of flames in a culture sense, even though it's a conversation about the celebrities' remarks, rather than a conversation that inherently makes similar remarks. (It does tend to make people in this kind of conversation underscore one "side" or the other, I think.)

    To bolded #2: If there was an implication of that, in what I said, I apologize. I have no platform for suggesting other people are worse than me (unless they're literally like that Godwin's-Law trigger dude ;) ), or feeling like I'm better than anyone. I hope expressing an opinion about the meta of the conversation doesn't create the impression that I think otherwise.

    Culturally, I think it can be better to ignore certain kinds of nonsense, vs. critique it, though that's a pretty nuanced kind of thing. The clickbaiters don't create culture, though they sort of push it along, often quite strongly. In a meaningful sense, we collectively create culture, I think. If the clickbait-slingers are the wind, and we are the waves, buffetted around, that's one thing; if we increase the winds' force, that's another. ;) The difference is of course subtle and arguable. ;)

    To bolded two: I was stating that I don't consider myself a better person because I didn't like Michaels' comments and someone else doesn't see a problem with them. I didn't think you thought I was *worse*. I think this is a situation where someone can be bothered or un-bothered without us being able to draw particular conclusions about them.

    I can certainly understand the point that this is the type of thing we might be better off ignoring, but that said . . . I'm not inclined to ignore it. That's due to the previously stated fact that it does strike an emotional chord for me. I just feel empathy for Lizzo here (while also recognizing that she doesn't particularly *need* my empathy and is doing fine).
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