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Thoughts on Beyond Burger and other fake meat
Replies
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My aunt is a vegetarian and I always let her choose a restaurant when we go out. Not because I’m worried about what she’s going to eat at a non veggie place....because she’s a vegetarian she’ll take me out for some good vegetarian food that I’m more likely to enjoy then just choosing a restaurant because it has a meet alternative option.
I love trying new foods. If the food is good then I don’t miss the meat.MikePfirrman wrote: »Another article that ties in well with this thread from one of my Linkedin contacts. Very insightful. They point out that families are looking for meat alternatives, will go to a different restaurant if ones not offered, and (this is the big deal to restaurants) people are willing to pay a bit more -- which at this time, when restaurants are striving to recover profits, means you'll be seeing a lot more of this stuff in your favorite restaurants soon.
https://www.fastcasual.com/blogs/plant-based-meat-options-why-its-a-big-deal-to-customers/
Oh, man: I hope this doesn't increase other people's tendency to try to force groups to go to restaurants I don't enjoy, just so I can eat the fake meat!
(This is a bizarre thing to me, that other people worry more about what I'm going to eat, as a vegetarian in XYZ restaurant, than I do. And sometimes they're pushy about it. WTHeck? 😆)
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Maggiesanvicto wrote: »My aunt is a vegetarian and I always let her choose a restaurant when we go out. Not because I’m worried about what she’s going to eat at a non veggie place....because she’s a vegetarian she’ll take me out for some good vegetarian food that I’m more likely to enjoy then just choosing a restaurant because it has a meet alternative option.
I love trying new foods. If the food is good then I don’t miss the meat.MikePfirrman wrote: »Another article that ties in well with this thread from one of my Linkedin contacts. Very insightful. They point out that families are looking for meat alternatives, will go to a different restaurant if ones not offered, and (this is the big deal to restaurants) people are willing to pay a bit more -- which at this time, when restaurants are striving to recover profits, means you'll be seeing a lot more of this stuff in your favorite restaurants soon.
https://www.fastcasual.com/blogs/plant-based-meat-options-why-its-a-big-deal-to-customers/
Oh, man: I hope this doesn't increase other people's tendency to try to force groups to go to restaurants I don't enjoy, just so I can eat the fake meat!
(This is a bizarre thing to me, that other people worry more about what I'm going to eat, as a vegetarian in XYZ restaurant, than I do. And sometimes they're pushy about it. WTHeck? 😆)
If the food isn't good, does meat save it? I mean, wouldn't everyone want to have GOOD food, regardless of whether or not it contains meat?
This, to me, is an example of the bizarre ways we categorize meat (not trying to jump on you in particular, just tying back to my the point I made above).
I love potatoes. I mean, I adore them. If I went to a restaurant that had good food, but didn't have potatoes, I still would never think of saying "the food was so good I didn't miss the potatoes."
Is this because many of us think of meat as something that is usually obligatory for a meal? As in, if it isn't there, something must compensate for it in a way that we would never think of for other ingredients, including those we're really passionate about?0 -
Maggiesanvicto wrote: »My aunt is a vegetarian and I always let her choose a restaurant when we go out. Not because I’m worried about what she’s going to eat at a non veggie place....because she’s a vegetarian she’ll take me out for some good vegetarian food that I’m more likely to enjoy then just choosing a restaurant because it has a meet alternative option.
I love trying new foods. If the food is good then I don’t miss the meat.MikePfirrman wrote: »Another article that ties in well with this thread from one of my Linkedin contacts. Very insightful. They point out that families are looking for meat alternatives, will go to a different restaurant if ones not offered, and (this is the big deal to restaurants) people are willing to pay a bit more -- which at this time, when restaurants are striving to recover profits, means you'll be seeing a lot more of this stuff in your favorite restaurants soon.
https://www.fastcasual.com/blogs/plant-based-meat-options-why-its-a-big-deal-to-customers/
Oh, man: I hope this doesn't increase other people's tendency to try to force groups to go to restaurants I don't enjoy, just so I can eat the fake meat!
(This is a bizarre thing to me, that other people worry more about what I'm going to eat, as a vegetarian in XYZ restaurant, than I do. And sometimes they're pushy about it. WTHeck? 😆)
Which is just great!
But I can literally pick a restaurant I like (or endorse one someone else has suggested), one that I know has good options for me as a vegetarian that I'd enjoy eating, and have non-vegetarians friends fussed about what I'll eat there, and suggest other places more know for their veg options. They don't need to pick for me, or "defend" me - at least as no one is just being a jerk in some other direction. (There's a restaurant here that has advertised as a point of pride that they only thing they have without meat is soda pop. I strongly prefer that groups I'm in not go there, and say so. Almost any other local place can work - I'm flexible.)
I don't get it, personally, if there are meat-eaters who would never, ever consider eating in a vegetarian restaurant, because vegetarian food can be very good and very diverse, as you say. (I don't hate them for it, I just don't *understand* being so attached to meat that one meal can't possibly be enjoyed without meat.) For sure, with people like that in a group, I'm motivated to seek out a place with a diverse menu that has things each of us can enjoy. Same (of course) if people have food allergies, very strong preferences against certain ethnic food types, sensitivities (like heartburn, etc.) to certain foods, or just "don't feel like Chinese tonight".
Some people don't like eating things they've never eaten, in general, too - not just meat but other things. Personally, I like trying new cuisines and ingredients. Everyone has different approaches and taste preferences.0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »Maggiesanvicto wrote: »My aunt is a vegetarian and I always let her choose a restaurant when we go out. Not because I’m worried about what she’s going to eat at a non veggie place....because she’s a vegetarian she’ll take me out for some good vegetarian food that I’m more likely to enjoy then just choosing a restaurant because it has a meet alternative option.
I love trying new foods. If the food is good then I don’t miss the meat.MikePfirrman wrote: »Another article that ties in well with this thread from one of my Linkedin contacts. Very insightful. They point out that families are looking for meat alternatives, will go to a different restaurant if ones not offered, and (this is the big deal to restaurants) people are willing to pay a bit more -- which at this time, when restaurants are striving to recover profits, means you'll be seeing a lot more of this stuff in your favorite restaurants soon.
https://www.fastcasual.com/blogs/plant-based-meat-options-why-its-a-big-deal-to-customers/
Oh, man: I hope this doesn't increase other people's tendency to try to force groups to go to restaurants I don't enjoy, just so I can eat the fake meat!
(This is a bizarre thing to me, that other people worry more about what I'm going to eat, as a vegetarian in XYZ restaurant, than I do. And sometimes they're pushy about it. WTHeck? 😆)
If the food isn't good, does meat save it? I mean, wouldn't everyone want to have GOOD food, regardless of whether or not it contains meat?
I interpreted the post as saying her aunt would pick a vegetarian restaurant that might introduce her to delicious food that was vegetarian. I used to like going to vegetarian and vegan places (or places with lots of those kinds of options, like many Indian and Ethiopian places, etc.) that were rated as having good food for that reason -- I knew how to cook a huge range of non vegan dishes that were delicious, but found it harder to have ideas and know how to make them delicious without the meat/eggs/dairy. There are some things that I could do easily and deliciously -- soups, salads, pasta options, beans and rice with veg, vegetarian chili, and a standby stirfry that included tofu and Japanese 7 spice, but beyond that it was not so intuitive since I learned to cook using meat and eggs and dairy, and most restaurants didn't have particularly interesting meatless options (that's getting better, at least in cities), so I wasn't creative and most of what I could make easily without thinking tended to be lower protein, and would easily be repetitive.
One can learn to cook from a book, and I have plant-based cookbooks, but as someone who normally doesn't use recipes other than for inspiration, seeing the interesting options at a vegetarian or vegan place can also serve as inspiration, as well as showing me how things could taste if done in an interesting and creative way by someone experienced at cooking in those ways.I love potatoes. I mean, I adore them. If I went to a restaurant that had good food, but didn't have potatoes, I still would never think of saying "the food was so good I didn't miss the potatoes."
Is this because many of us think of meat as something that is usually obligatory for a meal? As in, if it isn't there, something must compensate for it in a way that we would never think of for other ingredients, including those we're really passionate about?
Yeah, I think for something like dinner, it's pretty common to see meat -- or at least meat/eggs/dairy -- as something that is normally part of it and contributes to the flavor, and also common for the dishes one sees as high-end restaurant quality to include those ingredients, given the menus at many places. So being inspired by a similar types of dishes that don't use meat, etc., doesn't at all seem weird to me. I don't think the idea is that one cannot occasionally have a beans and rice based dish with veg or vegetarian chili or a pasta dish without meat or a bean enchilada or whatnot. (Even my dad has come around on that, although he used to think it was weird if I cooked a dinner without meat or at least eggs.)
Also meat isn't a single item, like potatoes. I suspect few people would see chicken as essential for a meal, or lamb, or whatever, but I think it's still common to see some sort of meat as part of the typical dinner (the protein source) and to find plant-based protein options as more difficult to cook in a tasty way without experience or requiring different spices or just food one is less used to cooking -- Purple Carrot kits (which I've tried a few times, and find their site gives ideas) use a lot of dishes from other parts of the world, and those might be ones where you aren't sure how they will taste or the proper spice mix or whatever, and tasting such things in restaurants would give ideas.1 -
janejellyroll wrote: »Maggiesanvicto wrote: »My aunt is a vegetarian and I always let her choose a restaurant when we go out. Not because I’m worried about what she’s going to eat at a non veggie place....because she’s a vegetarian she’ll take me out for some good vegetarian food that I’m more likely to enjoy then just choosing a restaurant because it has a meet alternative option.
I love trying new foods. If the food is good then I don’t miss the meat.MikePfirrman wrote: »Another article that ties in well with this thread from one of my Linkedin contacts. Very insightful. They point out that families are looking for meat alternatives, will go to a different restaurant if ones not offered, and (this is the big deal to restaurants) people are willing to pay a bit more -- which at this time, when restaurants are striving to recover profits, means you'll be seeing a lot more of this stuff in your favorite restaurants soon.
https://www.fastcasual.com/blogs/plant-based-meat-options-why-its-a-big-deal-to-customers/
Oh, man: I hope this doesn't increase other people's tendency to try to force groups to go to restaurants I don't enjoy, just so I can eat the fake meat!
(This is a bizarre thing to me, that other people worry more about what I'm going to eat, as a vegetarian in XYZ restaurant, than I do. And sometimes they're pushy about it. WTHeck? 😆)
If the food isn't good, does meat save it? I mean, wouldn't everyone want to have GOOD food, regardless of whether or not it contains meat?
I interpreted the post as saying her aunt would pick a vegetarian restaurant that might introduce her to delicious food that was vegetarian. I used to like going to vegetarian and vegan places (or places with lots of those kinds of options, like many Indian and Ethiopian places, etc.) that were rated as having good food for that reason -- I knew how to cook a huge range of non vegan dishes that were delicious, but found it harder to have ideas and know how to make them delicious without the meat/eggs/dairy. There are some things that I could do easily and deliciously -- soups, salads, pasta options, beans and rice with veg, vegetarian chili, and a standby stirfry that included tofu and Japanese 7 spice, but beyond that it was not so intuitive since I learned to cook using meat and eggs and dairy, and most restaurants didn't have particularly interesting meatless options (that's getting better, at least in cities), so I wasn't creative and most of what I could make easily without thinking tended to be lower protein, and would easily be repetitive.
One can learn to cook from a book, and I have plant-based cookbooks, but as someone who normally doesn't use recipes other than for inspiration, seeing the interesting options at a vegetarian or vegan place can also serve as inspiration, as well as showing me how things could taste if done in an interesting and creative way by someone experienced at cooking in those ways.I love potatoes. I mean, I adore them. If I went to a restaurant that had good food, but didn't have potatoes, I still would never think of saying "the food was so good I didn't miss the potatoes."
Is this because many of us think of meat as something that is usually obligatory for a meal? As in, if it isn't there, something must compensate for it in a way that we would never think of for other ingredients, including those we're really passionate about?
Yeah, I think for something like dinner, it's pretty common to see meat -- or at least meat/eggs/dairy -- as something that is normally part of it and contributes to the flavor, and also common for the dishes one sees as high-end restaurant quality to include those ingredients, given the menus at many places. So being inspired by a similar types of dishes that don't use meat, etc., doesn't at all seem weird to me. I don't think the idea is that one cannot occasionally have a beans and rice based dish with veg or vegetarian chili or a pasta dish without meat or a bean enchilada or whatnot. (Even my dad has come around on that, although he used to think it was weird if I cooked a dinner without meat or at least eggs.)
Also meat isn't a single item, like potatoes. I suspect few people would see chicken as essential for a meal, or lamb, or whatever, but I think it's still common to see some sort of meat as part of the typical dinner (the protein source) and to find plant-based protein options as more difficult to cook in a tasty way without experience or requiring different spices or just food one is less used to cooking -- Purple Carrot kits (which I've tried a few times, and find their site gives ideas) use a lot of dishes from other parts of the world, and those might be ones where you aren't sure how they will taste or the proper spice mix or whatever, and tasting such things in restaurants would give ideas.
The post didn't say "I love learning about new dishes," it was specifically that if the food was good, the meat wouldn't be missed. But even if I ate meat, it wouldn't save a bad dish for me. I may not be interpreting the point correctly, but to me -- good food is good food. When it's good, I don't really miss anything that isn't there . . . because it's delicious.
My point is that I'm curious why people think of meat as this essential/semi-essential category instead of just a collection of individual ingredients like "chicken," "beef," or "fish," things that people can enjoy, but their absence doesn't send the meal into a whole category of "I enjoyed it even though it didn't have [x]."
I understand the reason may be that many people aren't that familiar with how to create delicious meals without meat, but I'm also wondering if there may be something else involved.2 -
I've tried a couple but they've all pretty much made their way into the bin before I can finish as they are just a bit *meh* I guess I'm not keen on the neither one thing or anotherness of them. I like a beanburger that is unashamedly beaney or a hamburger that doesn't apologise for being meaty. These faux meats though are just a bit too try hard. IMO0
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I've tried a couple but they've all pretty much made their way into the bin before I can finish as they are just a bit *meh* I guess I'm not keen on the neither one thing or anotherness of them. I like a beanburger that is unashamedly beaney or a hamburger that doesn't apologise for being meaty. These faux meats though are just a bit too try hard. IMO
I'm utterly confused by how a food can be trying "too hard," but if it exists I would associate it more with something like pavlovas than a patty.1 -
I guess its because its trying to be something its not. Foe example beetroot burgers that are trying not to taste and have the texture of beetroot. I love beetroot but I love it because it tastes and has the texture of beetroot if you get me. Its like the best bits have been taken away while so much other stuff has been added to dress it up as something its not. A beetroot burger does not have the taste or texture of beef and I dont understand why anyone would think it should?2
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I guess its because its trying to be something its not. Foe example beetroot burgers that are trying not to taste and have the texture of beetroot. I love beetroot but I love it because it tastes and has the texture of beetroot if you get me. Its like the best bits have been taken away while so much other stuff has been added to dress it up as something its not. A beetroot burger does not have the taste or texture of beef and I dont understand why anyone would think it should?
I don't think anyone is arguing that a beet burger should have the taste and texture of beef, are they?
The Beyond Burger does have beet juice as an ingredient for color (I believe it's the very last thing on the ingredient list), but beet juice is a common ingredient for color purposes in all kinds of foods (I've seen it in yogurt, for example). It doesn't make it a beet burger that is trying to be beef.2 -
janejellyroll wrote: »The post didn't say "I love learning about new dishes," it was specifically that if the food was good, the meat wouldn't be missed. But even if I ate meat, it wouldn't save a bad dish for me. I may not be interpreting the point correctly, but to me -- good food is good food. When it's good, I don't really miss anything that isn't there . . . because it's delicious.
My point is that I'm curious why people think of meat as this essential/semi-essential category instead of just a collection of individual ingredients like "chicken," "beef," or "fish," things that people can enjoy, but their absence doesn't send the meal into a whole category of "I enjoyed it even though it didn't have [x]."
I understand the reason may be that many people aren't that familiar with how to create delicious meals without meat, but I'm also wondering if there may be something else involved.
Not my post, so I'm not committed to my interpretation of it, but this is what I was talking about: "My aunt is a vegetarian and I always let her choose a restaurant when we go out. Not because I’m worried about what she’s going to eat at a non veggie place....because she’s a vegetarian she’ll take me out for some good vegetarian food that I’m more likely to enjoy then just choosing a restaurant because it has a meet alternative option."
My interpretation was that as a vegetarian, her aunt was more likely to know where the really good vegetarian places are. If you just rely on some afterthought dish at a place that doesn't care much about vegetarian options, it is likely to be uninspiring, especially if one is paying for it. I usually eat meatless during Lent, but don't generally tell people I'm not close with that, since I don't necessarily want to get into a discussion about Lent or religion or my eating choices in general. As a result, I've definitely been to places where I was sad to have to pay for the one not so good option or to have to rely on a collection of sides (and yes in those cases I missed the meat).
I don't read "if it tastes good, I don't miss the meat" as meaning that tasting good is unimportant with dishes with meat, but if one has a meal one does not like, one might attribute it to not having meat, i.e., not being a well-thought-out dish, but just one that removed the meat portion or subbed something that had less flavor without adding more flavor from other sources. For example, and in keeping with the thread, I've had black bean burgers that were delicious and didn't make me think I wanted anything else, and I've had others that were not tasty, and then my kneejerk -- as someone who usually does use ground beef when I have a burger -- think "wish I had a burger with ground beef instead! But I also am not a big fan of ground turkey, so am perfectly likely to "miss the beef" if eating something where ground turkey was subbed in, and not do so if the spices and other aspects of the dish made it taste better than I expected (which has happened on occasion). It's not limited to meat -- how about people who say "use riced cauliflower, so good you don't miss the rice!"
Re why people think meat is essential at dinner? American eating patterns where meat was commonly part of it, I assume, plus the idea that it needs to have a protein component and not being so familiar with meals that use other sources of protein to satisfy that. Plus many people thinking meat is tasty. But that's just guessing based on what I experienced growing up, where we'd only not have meat (often fish, however) at dinner if we did something relatively rare like order a pizza (I don't like pepperoni or sausage on pizza, so would usually have no meat back then). I don't feel that way now (haven't since I was first away from home and got exposed to more types of food), but I think it's likely not that uncommon to have grown up that way.3 -
I prefer the taste of the meat but I don't trust much what is inside these burgers. I eat them at the restaurants. At home I found one that I am very pleased with; Sol Cuisine Black Beans burgers. It has not much proteins though. But 90 cal is hard to beat.
https://solcuisine.com/products/spicy-black-bean-burger/0 -
FWIW, Science Friday had a segment this week on the future of imitation meat, including an interview with the CEO of Impossible Foods, and another guy who's the executive director of a Canadian non-profit that promotes the research and development of cellular "meats". (17 minutes audio, or there's a transcript.)
https://www.sciencefriday.com/segments/fake-meat-science/1
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