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Thoughts on Beyond Burger and other fake meat

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Replies

  • Avidkeo
    Avidkeo Posts: 3,194 Member
    Sylphadora wrote: »
    just_Tomek wrote: »
    Sylphadora wrote: »
    janejellyroll wrote: »
    Sylphadora wrote: »
    janejellyroll wrote: »
    Sylphadora wrote: »
    Nope

    Care to share what your specific concern is?

    Sure. The 21 reasons in the ingredient list

    You avoid beet juice?

    I hate beet with a passion so yes, I do avoid it, but I'm more worried about all the vegetable seed oils, starches and sugars. Also, anything with more than 5 ingredients is a frankenfood. Have you ever used 21 ingredients in a recipe?

    Yeap. Many times.

    And have you ever used methylcellulose, succinic acid, maltodextrin or any of the other chemical-sounding ingredients in a recipe? I don't buy anything with ingredients my grandmother wouldn't recognize. I'm strongly anti-processed food. The fact that it's processed vegan food doesn't make it any healthier. It still seems that it came out of a lab instead of a kitchen

    Ever used dihydrogen monoxide in food? I guarantee you have.

    Any ingredient sounds scary if you use its scientific name
  • tvm1970
    tvm1970 Posts: 164 Member
    live2dream wrote: »
    just_Tomek wrote: »
    ReenieHJ wrote: »
    I watched a talk show with Marco Borges, saying plant-based is the healthy way to go. BUT avoid fake meat because it's all highly processed.
    Opinions? Just curious.

    Is it to be avoided... nope. Unless you want to save money, then yeap.
    Is it highly processed... yeap. Just look at the ingredients.

    I would never buy it, high in calories, low in protein, low in nutrients and way way overpriced.... comparing to meat.

    Seriously why do people comment when they have no idea what they are talking about. It's the same amount of protein and calories as a cow burger, except without the cholesterol. Healthy to eat daily- NO. But no one should be eating any kind of burger with that high of fat daily. Once in a while to kill a craving without killing an animal- YES.

    Quoting so people read this twice.

  • aokoye
    aokoye Posts: 3,495 Member
    edited February 2020
    live2dream wrote: »
    just_Tomek wrote: »
    ReenieHJ wrote: »
    I watched a talk show with Marco Borges, saying plant-based is the healthy way to go. BUT avoid fake meat because it's all highly processed.
    Opinions? Just curious.

    Is it to be avoided... nope. Unless you want to save money, then yeap.
    Is it highly processed... yeap. Just look at the ingredients.

    I would never buy it, high in calories, low in protein, low in nutrients and way way overpriced.... comparing to meat.

    Seriously why do people comment when they have no idea what they are talking about. It's the same amount of protein and calories as a cow burger, except without the cholesterol. Healthy to eat daily- NO. But no one should be eating any kind of burger with that high of fat daily. Once in a while to kill a craving without killing an animal- YES.

    If you're using 80/20 ground beef yes, more or less. If you're using 95% lean (which is what I would use) then no, not at all.
    95% lean ground beef
    80% lean ground beef
    Impossible burger
    And for fun - Beyond burger, whose nutrition facts I couldn't actually find on their website but there are pictures on a Medium blog post which is what I linked to.

    It is also safe to assume that @just_Tomek is comparing the meatless patties as one would buy them at the grocery store to ground beef (or perhaps not ground) that you would buy so you can make your own hamburger patties. I say that on the basis of their posting history in the Recipies section.
  • annie5904
    annie5904 Posts: 84 Member
    I only have soy mince. As a vegan for two years I am trying not to eat soy but it is a source of protien. Becoming vegan and staying healthy doesn t just happen it is a long learning process. For me one that is worth the effort. Hopefully in the not too distant future I will be able to say I am completely plant based.
  • sbryanthc
    sbryanthc Posts: 73 Member
    edited February 2020
    estherdragonbat wrote: »
    How is soy not plant-based?

    Maybe they meant because soy is one of the plants that is mostly GMO. Not sure.
  • paperpudding
    paperpudding Posts: 9,261 Member
    edited February 2020
    I took Annie to be making 2 separate statements

    She is trying to avoid soy ( for unstated reason)
    And
    She is aiming to become fully plant based but is still getting there. ( separate aim to soy intake)
  • glassyo
    glassyo Posts: 7,731 Member
    tvm1970 wrote: »
    live2dream wrote: »
    just_Tomek wrote: »
    ReenieHJ wrote: »
    I watched a talk show with Marco Borges, saying plant-based is the healthy way to go. BUT avoid fake meat because it's all highly processed.
    Opinions? Just curious.

    Is it to be avoided... nope. Unless you want to save money, then yeap.
    Is it highly processed... yeap. Just look at the ingredients.

    I would never buy it, high in calories, low in protein, low in nutrients and way way overpriced.... comparing to meat.

    Seriously why do people comment when they have no idea what they are talking about. It's the same amount of protein and calories as a cow burger, except without the cholesterol. Healthy to eat daily- NO. But no one should be eating any kind of burger with that high of fat daily. Once in a while to kill a craving without killing an animal- YES.

    Quoting so people read this twice.

    Quoting so no one can read it. Muahahahaha.

    Now, about those vanilla sugar cookies....
  • ceiswyn
    ceiswyn Posts: 2,256 Member
    As for using more than 5 ingredients in cooking...

    Well, my homemade sourdough bread has 4. So if I use it in a cheese and Marmite sandwich with a bit of leafy salad... OH NOES, THE PROCESSED!
  • estherdragonbat
    estherdragonbat Posts: 5,283 Member
    glassyo wrote: »
    tvm1970 wrote: »
    live2dream wrote: »
    just_Tomek wrote: »
    ReenieHJ wrote: »
    I watched a talk show with Marco Borges, saying plant-based is the healthy way to go. BUT avoid fake meat because it's all highly processed.
    Opinions? Just curious.

    Is it to be avoided... nope. Unless you want to save money, then yeap.
    Is it highly processed... yeap. Just look at the ingredients.

    I would never buy it, high in calories, low in protein, low in nutrients and way way overpriced.... comparing to meat.

    Seriously why do people comment when they have no idea what they are talking about. It's the same amount of protein and calories as a cow burger, except without the cholesterol. Healthy to eat daily- NO. But no one should be eating any kind of burger with that high of fat daily. Once in a while to kill a craving without killing an animal- YES.

    Quoting so people read this twice.

    Quoting so no one can read it. Muahahahaha.

    Now, about those vanilla sugar cookies....

    90 calories apiece assuming you get 4 dozen out of the recipe: http://www.flourarrangements.org/2016/04/simple-vanilla-cookies/ and worth every one!

  • lemurcat2
    lemurcat2 Posts: 7,885 Member
    edited February 2020
    estherdragonbat wrote: »
    How is soy not plant-based?

    Yeah, puzzling.
    sbryanthc wrote: »
    estherdragonbat wrote: »
    How is soy not plant-based?

    Maybe they meant because soy is one of the plants that is mostly GMO. Not sure.

    I don't care about GMO, but despite that most of the tofu and tempeh I eat is not GMO, it's not that hard to avoid. I'd say that someone intending to eat a soy-based food like tofu or tempeh will likely have an easier time finding non-GMO options, because that's what's more commonly sold. Typically GMO soy is the stuff in other products (including a huge amount of products that are not vegetarian or vegan).

    Anyway, being GMO doesn't make something not plant based.

    Also, the BeyondBeef stuff does not contain soy anyway, and some of the other products that may or may not be included in this category are bean-based. (Note: I don't think it's at all clear how to separate what is and is not in the category given the objections -- pretty much all the bean patties and more traditional soy-or seiten- or quorn- or TVP-based meat subs, often marketed as meat subs -- would have more than 5 ingredients and would unquestionably be processed, so I assume those freaking out about Beyond or Impossible being bad for those reasons or being "gross" or "fake" or whatnot would be raising the same issues about them.

    I do think this is pretty odd. I mean, chicken nuggets squick me out (they seem to me like a fake food make with chicken), but that's my personal thing and I don't go around insisting they are therefore gross and no one else should eat them without health risk or that people should prefer chicken cooked with their bones, as I do. And personally I think the Beyond product looks like ground beef (both of which I think look a little unpleasant, but in that I cook with ground beef I don't see that as an issue with Beyond (which I haven't tried yet, but this discussion is making me want to).

    (Since Just_Tomek's position came up, I'll note that he slammed the entire category and then elsewhere talked about eating the Morningstar stuff which I would include in this category and which were in the Food & Wine taste test of the category, so I think we all should probably relax on the grand generalizations.)
  • lemurcat2
    lemurcat2 Posts: 7,885 Member
    edited February 2020
    aokoye wrote: »
    live2dream wrote: »
    just_Tomek wrote: »
    ReenieHJ wrote: »
    I watched a talk show with Marco Borges, saying plant-based is the healthy way to go. BUT avoid fake meat because it's all highly processed.
    Opinions? Just curious.

    Is it to be avoided... nope. Unless you want to save money, then yeap.
    Is it highly processed... yeap. Just look at the ingredients.

    I would never buy it, high in calories, low in protein, low in nutrients and way way overpriced.... comparing to meat.

    Seriously why do people comment when they have no idea what they are talking about. It's the same amount of protein and calories as a cow burger, except without the cholesterol. Healthy to eat daily- NO. But no one should be eating any kind of burger with that high of fat daily. Once in a while to kill a craving without killing an animal- YES.

    If you're using 80/20 ground beef yes, more or less. If you're using 95% lean (which is what I would use) then no, not at all.
    95% lean ground beef
    80% lean ground beef
    Impossible burger
    And for fun - Beyond burger, whose nutrition facts I couldn't actually find on their website but there are pictures on a Medium blog post which is what I linked to.

    Just for the record, I did a comparison of all of those upthread, including the BeyondBeef product, and a couple of others I'd personally consider part of the fake meat category.

    [Edit: heh, just checked, it was way back on page one! https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/comment/44688325/#Comment_44688325]

    I think the intent of the Impossible and Beyond products is to compete with/be compared with 80% beef (which is what is usually used in restaurants, and what some taste purists will use at home too, commonly).

    It doesn't compare with lean right now, but I bet there will be products that do soon enough.

    That said, Just_Tomek has acknowledged (happily) eating some other meat substitute products that are often included in the category, and were included in my list (and which would be dismissed as problematic by many of those commenting here), so this entire discussion continues to suffer for a lack of focus on actual specifics. (My list was of the ones in the F&W taste test.)

    For example, "oh, they are bad because soy is bad" -- Beyond doesn't have soy, many products that others are saying are fine because they are meat subs that taste less like meat (I guess? I haven't had Beyond or Impossible or most of the others either).

    Not that there's anything wrong with soy.
  • aokoye
    aokoye Posts: 3,495 Member
    jm_1234 wrote: »
    Re: 95% lean for a burger? That is more blasphemous than a plant burger. ;-) But seriously 80/20 is the standard even if you grind your own at home.

    Hey no one said you had to come over. ;) You'll be missing a lot of other things, but more for me I suppose. Never mind that "standard" and "grind your own at home" are almost silly to have in the same sentence when talking about most people in the US. The vast majority of people aren't grinding their own beef. I don't for burgers (which mind you, I rarely make) but I will for sausage.
  • janejellyroll
    janejellyroll Posts: 25,763 Member
    wmd1979 wrote: »
    janejellyroll wrote: »
    gearhead426hemi wrote: »
    As a small farmer that grows or raises the majority of what my family consumes I HATE getting advise from people who don't grow or raise anything. I have found that the loudest most annoying people who preach about not eating meat and only eating organic don't grow anything they consume. I totally support people to eat whatever they want and live the lifestyle that makes you feel the best physically and emotionally. When it comes to food I am a firm believer that if you aren't growing or raising it yourself you shouldn't be on your soap box lecturing others.

    I have a close friend that chose to go vegetarian after working as a butcher for years. He turned his entire small backyard into a garden. He lives in Colorado and his yard is 20 feet by 20 feet and he grows what he can with the changing seasons. He even has a small enclosed greenhouse to grow small fruit trees on his back porch. He has been promoting his neighbors to grow more even if they don't choose to go full vegan or vegetarian. He gives his neighbors seeds from his crops and helps them set up irrigation systems and teaches them about soil PH and other gardening tips.

    If you want to sway people one way or the other lead by example.

    "You catch more bees with honey than vinegar"

    This is kind of like saying you can't be against child abuse unless you're a parent or you can't be against police brutality unless you're a police officer or you can't be against vote fraud unless you run for office or you can't be against kicking a dog unless you're operating a dog rescue.

    Our methods of food production have a significant impact on our environment, our economy, and our health. Our choices about which foods to eat impact humans who work in food production, as well as animals who are used in it. Decisions about what to eat are deeply involved in our social, emotional, and family lives.

    I completely reject the idea that consumers should "shut up" about food unless they become involved in food production. I shouldn't need a greenhouse in order to validate my mere right to express an opinion.

    Does being involved in food production give someone a unique perspective on issues related to food? Absolutely. But I don't think it should be the only perspective that is allowed.

    I had the same thoughts when I first read the post as well until I read it a second time. After re-reading the post, I interpreted it that its fine for people to eat whatever they like, and live whatever lifestyle they like, but don't go lecturing others about their lifestyles if you don't have experience actually producing the food. A person can be anti GMO, and that is fine, but its when they start lecturing others that they shouldn't be eating GMO foods, then it becomes annoying, especially if they have never grown a crop in their lives. A better way to look at it might be comparing it to the anti-vax movement who is extremely outspoken despite the fact that a lot of their views contradict actual science. When an uneducated person starts lecturing others it can easily go from annoying to dangerous.

    To tie that back to the original topic, I can't say that I see much value for myself in the impossible whopper, or any other fake meat products, because nutritionally, there isn't a huge advantage one way or the other. I do want to try them just out of curiosity though, because I see no real negatives either. Although I might not personally find value, I am not going to lecture anyone else that does prefer it, or try to sway them one way or another. Jane, I know you have ethical reasons for being vegan, and I respect that even if we have different views on that subject. The reason it is easy to respect your view is because you aren't lecturing others who think differently than you do. I don't want to put words in the previous posters mouth, but that is what I took away from their post.

    I think I was coming from the point of view that sometimes if someone says "I think this particular practice is wrong," then that is perceived as lecturing by some people (although I wouldn't agree it necessarily falls into that category).

    So my response to the post was to defend everyone's ability to speak out about what issues they perceive within food production, even if they aren't necessarily involved in it other than as a consumer. For some of us, that will be about how animals are treated. Others may have environmental concerns or concerns about how food is distributed to different parts of the world or even concerns about obesity rates or how human workers are treated.

    As people on this planet with relationships to the earth, other humans, and other creatures, we're already deeply involved. We're literally consuming this stuff - it's hard to think of a more intimate and impactful relationship than our connection to the food we eat.
  • Jossy_star
    Jossy_star Posts: 7 Member
    I am a meat lover and nothing can replace real meat in my personal opinion but if you want a vegan meat than try cooking one at home... i found lots of easy recipes and it turned out great
  • janejellyroll
    janejellyroll Posts: 25,763 Member
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    gearhead426hemi wrote: »
    @janejellyroll & @lemurcat2 I am simply saying I totally support everyone eating as they choose. Not one person on this thread has done it but 99% of the time these threads make the keyboard trolls seem to come out of the woodwork.

    Okay, we are on the same page. I do see a number of people lecturing others about how one should never eat the products being discussed, that they are somehow bad alternatives for anything, even a Whopper, but I haven't see anyone lecturing others about how they should not eat meat, as you seemed to be suggesting.

    It's probably a hobby horse of mine that others find weird, but when someone pops up in a thread and takes people in general to task for doing something, I don't read it as about the population at large (because why would you address them on the specific thread) but as scolding the other participants in the thread. Others may think this is an odd way to take it, I dunno.
    I am simply saying people who have never raised or grown anything truly have no idea how or where their food is harvested, grown or raised.

    I would disagree with this. First, of course, many of us have grown some of our own food, but I would agree that we still don't have first hand knowledge about what it is like to try to grow all, or--more to the point--to be a working farmer. My grandparents on one side were farmers, as were other relatives on that side, and my dad's grandparents on his mom's side (who he spent some of his childhood with) had been farmers and continued to live in what was then a farming community (now it's largely industrial farms and the small towns that were are largely abandoned, which I find sad although economically my view may be purely romantic).

    Second, we can learn about how our food is grown or raised in different ways, from research to personal visits and talking to people. Although I am not a purist (partly because I like having a variety of vegetables and fruit at this time of year), I do prefer to buy from local smaller farms as much as possible, in part likely due to my family history and the romanticism I noted, but also because I think it's good to have surviving, working smaller farms as well as industrialized agriculture (I'm not talking about organic which is not a big thing for me except that to some extent it is a marketing point for some small farms). I also do prefer having some knowledge about how the animals involved are treated. But I will also say that this is a luxury I can afford and I don't assume everyone can or should.

    I will also note -- as Jane said -- that people comment and think they know about fields they are not in all the time. Everyone in the world certainly thinks they are an expert about mine! (I also know that a lot of the reporting is dreadful, so will give you that.)

    I would argue that a theoretical hobby gardener could easily have less of an idea about what it's like to be a working farmer than someone who has never grown a vegetable but widely exposed themselves to different sources of information about modern agriculture. There's often a big difference between doing something for fun and doing something because it's how you pay your bills.

    (Not that the hobby gardener couldn't also educate themselves about modern agricultural practices, but I don't know if raising some tomatoes makes one automatically more qualified to have an opinion about dairy farming).

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