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What are your thoughts on Keto?
Replies
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Dear paperpudding,
Deprived by definition means suffering from the loss of something. I don't smoke cigarettes because I don't want to; am I depriving myself? Am I suffering for the lack of cigarettes? That's silly.
I don't eat most meats because I don't want to; the thought grosses me out. I didn't eat them long before keto. I don't eat grains because they cause GI distress for me. All these years later, I don't miss those grains or the pain they cause me. I'm not suffering--I eating how I want to. This is the whole reason keto works for me--I'm eating in manner that is sustainable for me.
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I am pretty sure we are not all understanding the same thing by SouthBeach, Atkins, keto, dirty keto, low carb, addiction, deprived, restricted, processed, unprocessed, simple and complex carbohydrates, and most significantly, pronounceable and unpronounceable ingredients and most of the other terms I've seen used in the past few pages.
The more individualized our definitions, the less likely it is that we will get anywhere!
Cary on!
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Dear Gale,
Thank you for your response. So let me address a few things, as truly after this I am not addressing anyone or anything else after this last thoughts.
I asked the following:
Am I in Ketosis? I doubt it and really may never get into ketosis. But I am not getting hung up on the details, which apparently some here like to do. So, is my food intake, thus far, really low carb? Is it just counting calories? Is it whole foods? Are there processed foods? Again, if there are results, does it matter. How are we defining Keto in the discussion? That you must be in ketosis (with only the occassional bump)? Or that someone is saying they are trying the keto diet?
I thought these were fair questions to open a conversation. Instead, I get accused of not knowing facts, attacking carb eaters, using processed foods only because I stated openly that in Keto one still will use some processed foods, etc...
On the accusations, I can't see how asking questions to define how we are discussing Keto means I am changing my definitions and that I am only defining terms in such a specific way that define me personally. By asking how we are defining and discussing Keto?
You, sir, know the first thing a person who is interested in starting Keto will do. Go through the pantry and get rid of all the labels that have ingredients they can't pronounce. You know Keto followers are going to still use some processed foods, but those are mainly whole ingredients. Pork skins are pork skins and salt. Sour cream is just cultured cream. Heavy whip cream is just heavy cream milk but will have less than .5% carrageenan. So one could, I guess debate carrageenan. If one is not making their own mayo, they may have a little soybean oil in the one they purchase.
So I would think if others are here to talk about their experiences about Keto, and not hear in a forum to learn about Keto, then they, too would know that on Keto, there are always going to be some processed foods. If they have tried a Keto plan, then they know this. So for janejellyroll to say because I state that keto is about avoiding processed foods and then list all the processed foods you eat on keto, you're going to cause some confusion. Hunter gatherers may be eating whole foods, but if she knows the Keto diet, she knows one will have to have some processed foods. Limited. And ingredients that are as close to whole as possible. So why she is so hung up on this, beyond me. Which simply means her way of thinking vs my way of thinking don't align. I mean Keto followers will debate all kinds of ingredients. Or pasture fed. Or cage free. Or stress free open outside ranges.
Again, if they know their Keto diets, lifestyles, or demands, they know this. Why criticism me for giving them credit for know this, if we are here talking about our thoughts on Keto. Not learning Keto abc123.
So the debate of organic vs organic pasture feed, if one watches almost any of the youtube videos, that person will have to decide if, indeed, it is a given that if something is fed corn, that one must assume it was GMO corn. (I don't buy into that, but how can one be certain of which corn was used.) But I, again, get flak for stating these are the issued discussed in the Keto world, which they seem positive they know, but yet they don't know about these little nuances. Hmm.
How about the last one. Discussing excitotoxins and being accused of now bringing that into the conversation, when I already discussed them by stating there are over 20 ways a food producer/processor can list MSG. (edit*) And we were talking about carb addictions!
And missNY seems really hung up on defending carbs, when you also know that carbs isn't really Keto inasmuch as Keto is training the body to find it's energy from fats, producing ketones, and that most likely one would have to limit carbs to stay in ketosis. She knows that. So I am giving her credit for knowing that, as we converse. But no, that's not good enough.
I fully understand Keto. Yes. And have my boundaries - where some push further into the Keto universe, whereas I am not going to those depths. And was open about it. Asked questions about it. And gave an opportunity for rebuttals, like: foolforcarbos, if you aren't sure or may not be in ketosis, then maybe you really aren't on keto. Fine. I agree. But I stated, I am not testing my blood every day, don't have diabetes, and am not bashing carbs, and stated I do eat a few more than a typical Keto guru. I know I do, or must. And I even stated the only way I could know if I am in ketosis, it measuring blood. If not, again, then am I really a low carb eater. Seems a fair question. But oh, let missNY get on me for not understanding my information or keto. It was question I felt worth asking.
So thank you. But I went kayaking this evening. Nice sunset. Perfect weather. Cool still and not hot. Loved meeting some new people, having great conversations, and won't miss this part of the process. I am not going to, nor feel I have preached Keto. I posted 2 resources of which they both talk about the pros and cons of keto, so did these girls even watch the video before ripping into me? Who knows. But ripping me for saying these are two good resources. And how I must be bashing carb eaters?
Thank you and have a great time on your keto lifestyle. And I will go one with life enjoying me endeavors and in truth, hope everyone here finds their success. PS. A texan here. We tend to push back when people try to get our goats up. 
Or walk away. Far away. 1 -
Dear paperpudding,
Deprived by definition means suffering from the loss of something. I don't smoke cigarettes because I don't want to; am I depriving myself? Am I suffering for the lack of cigarettes? That's silly.
I don't eat most meats because I don't want to; the thought grosses me out. I didn't eat them long before keto. I don't eat grains because they cause GI distress for me. All these years later, I don't miss those grains or the pain they cause me. I'm not suffering--I eating how I want to. This is the whole reason keto works for me--I'm eating in manner that is sustainable for me.
I think what I was saying was quite clear and getting all nit picky on semantics of word meanings is not contributing anything.
Sure, if eating keto is sustainable for you, carry on.
But that doesn't change my point that for most people the restrictions required are too onerous and not worth it.
( which is exactly what I said before, albeit in different words)
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Opps. One correction. When I referred, in some of these posts, to Dirty Keto, that should have been Lazy Keto.
So they were correct calling me out on the wrong term. Lazy Keto. My apologies.
What is lazy Keto and dirty Keto?
Dirty keto, which involves eating highly processed keto-friendly foods, including fast food (sans buns or fries), is often derided for its unhealthy approach. Lazy keto borders on derision in some keto circles, too.0 -
foolforcarbos wrote: »Opps. One correction. When I referred, in some of these posts, to Dirty Keto, that should have been Lazy Keto.
So they were correct calling me out on the wrong term. Lazy Keto. My apologies.
What is lazy Keto and dirty Keto?
Dirty keto, which involves eating highly processed keto-friendly foods, including fast food (sans buns or fries), is often derided for its unhealthy approach. Lazy keto borders on derision in some keto circles, too.
Why are people in keto circles deriding others for how they're eating? I don't get why someone who is happy with their own keto approach would even care if someone else finds a way that works better for them.11 -
foolforcarbos wrote: »Opps. One correction. When I referred, in some of these posts, to Dirty Keto, that should have been Lazy Keto.
So they were correct calling me out on the wrong term. Lazy Keto. My apologies.
What is lazy Keto and dirty Keto?
Dirty keto, which involves eating highly processed keto-friendly foods, including fast food (sans buns or fries), is often derided for its unhealthy approach. Lazy keto borders on derision in some keto circles, too.
I thought the whole point of calling a way of dieting "Keto" was that the point was to get into ketosis? With the test strips and everything? So who cares what you eat, as long as you accomplish ketosis?
Anything where you're not worried about ketosis I might call "low-carb," but I am also not a subscriber to any of those things, so I have no skin in the game, so to speak.3 -
There are purists with photography where people believe you must do this, that, or the other or you aren't a photographer. There are purists in golf that believe you must do this or that to have the perfect swing. Some people get too hung up on the process and not the results. Purists.
Here is a girl that lost 175 lbs. She also does not want to make her own spices, condiments, and so on. She will explain the whole lazy keto thing
https://youtu.be/_CbimIG5wYk 1 -
It is pretty inconvenient, but like any other strict diet/lifestyle change it just takes some getting used to and you find a bunch of new recipes you might not otherwise. I use it mainly to help with my mood disorder, it has been the only thing to actually make a difference in the many treatment plans I have tried. I have not yet felt energized by it like others say happens for them, which initially was why I started, it could be because of the deficit.1
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foolforcarbos wrote: »There are purists with photography where people believe you must do this, that, or the other or you aren't a photographer. There are purists in golf that believe you must do this or that to have the perfect swing. Some people get too hung up on the process and not the results. Purists.
Here is a girl that lost 175 lbs. She also does not want to make her own spices, condiments, and so on. She will explain the whole lazy keto thing
I would consider photographers who derided other photographers and said they weren't "real" to be jerks. Same for golfers. It's a mentality I don't understand.
People can get hung up on their own process all they want, but when they cross the line into telling others that they are required to make their own condiments or they aren't doing keto . . . . I don't get it.
It's why I responded to your comments about how everyone who is really doing keto is eliminating processed foods (except for the ones you're still eating). Why does it matter if people on keto are eating some processed foods that you aren't? Why is the distinction between "keto" and "lazy keto" meaningful for you?
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foolforcarbos wrote: »There are purists with photography where people believe you must do this, that, or the other or you aren't a photographer. There are purists in golf that believe you must do this or that to have the perfect swing. Some people get too hung up on the process and not the results. Purists.
Here is a girl that lost 175 lbs. She also does not want to make her own spices, condiments, and so on. She will explain the whole lazy keto thinghttps://youtu.be/_CbimIG5wYk
It's not convenient for me to watch a video right now. Would you please define "lazy keto" in a few sentences?1 -
Jane, it's because I am trying to expose that while I am trying to follow a Keto diet, the question of the thread was what are your thoughts on keto. I am trying my best to be honest. I am saying, by way of example and talking about what I am doing, that I am not a Keto guru. I am not hung up on it, inasmuch as I am wanting anyone following to know where I stand and what I am doing and that it may, indeed, not be purely keto.
Again, Keto was developed back in 1915 (ish) for patients with severe diabetes. I do not have diabetes. I am sure, when I go days at a time, and my carb count is 50g or less, I am most likely in ketosis. I didn't choose this lifestyle to stop insulin production and control that production, but it eliminate all the things at the grocery store that I needed to stop eating. At least for now.
Maybe Keto people, again maybe not most, can't speak for others, but maybe they like the fact that you learn how to read labels, cuts foods out of your diet, and can then eat food groups that as close to whole foods and you can, & see how your body reacts to certain foods. You will know if one food or another spikes your insulin, for example. I will not. I was honest. I don't test my blood. Not every day. Not ever.
But Keto can really help people understand how foods they consume effect their body through insulin and sugar levels. And to them, or me, that, along with carbs, is a huge factor in controlling what one eats to lose weight.
So why this diet? Or why not low carb? The available information and video made it easy for me to learn a simplistic practice. Getting pastas, breads, sugars out of the way, and concentrate on only a few things made my dietary list easy to maintain. I will not eat most veggies. Not your broccoli, squash, cauliflower (including cauliflower doughs or rice), peas, sprouts, etc... So any diet that requires lots of veggies, like the Mediterranean, is a no go.
Because we are talking Keto and our thoughts here, I want people to know that you will find some truly fanatics that will judge you by what you are willing to accept. The lazy part of keto. Lazy keto. If you are not making your own mayo. Or if you open a can of anything. Or if you don't buy that pasture fed. When anyone interested in Keto starts watching video online, it may be very easy to be dissuaded from Keto. Not only are they asking you to give up beads, pastas, and sugars, then they go into this whole skip this because of GMOs and skip that because of low fat is really just stripped nutrients and then they add additives and processed junk back in to get it to low fat. It would intimidate most. Probably does.
So why am I trying hard to expose Keto and say yes, I am trying it, but I am also being honest about it, but as with any concerted effort, one can lose weight, if one eats better, and counts every gram they eat.
So when you are riding me for openly discussing eating processed foods, it is because I want people to know that on Keto, there are processed foods. You made such a big deal of my openness that I wanted to just walk away. But I am still here trying to answer questions. I made a slight error when I was describing what I was doing, which was lazy keto, but accidentally called it Dirty. I honestly felt if you knew the subject matter, you should have caught that error and known I meant Lazy, not Dirty. But I don't think you know Keto as well as you may think. But that's okay. I was willing to discuss this. But you just wanted to ride me about mistakes.
Even now, you are asking: Why is the distinction between "keto" and "lazy keto" meaningful for you?
Because I simply was trying to be open about my experience with Keto and which form of Keto I was taking. Not Dirty. Not strict. But more or less Lazy keto. Which is why I asked how are you defining Keto. I hope that answers your question.0 -
Here are my thoughts on Keto.
If you like it, do it.
If not, don't.14 -
Keto isn't complicated. It's multifaceted. It's like karate with different colored belts. Or levels. How pure does one want to go with their keto? But then again, I guess all diets are multifaceted. Whether cheat days, or not counting every ounce and gram, or not worrying about that slip or snack. How regimented, in either Keto or any diet can make or break a diet.
Most diets fail because people are lazy and don't put in the work, count the calories, and stay to some adherence of a food plan. So in time, they opt for the next fad. Calling Keto a fad? It was designed and has been around since 1915ish. But sure, it's popular and a fad. What's next and what will take it's place. Doesn't matter. If you cheat enough on any diet, you won't succeed.1 -
foolforcarbos wrote: »Jane, it's because I am trying to expose that while I am trying to follow a Keto diet, the question of the thread was what are your thoughts on keto. I am trying my best to be honest. I am saying, by way of example and talking about what I am doing, that I am not a Keto guru. I am not hung up on it, inasmuch as I am wanting anyone following to know where I stand and what I am doing and that it may, indeed, not be purely keto.
Again, Keto was developed back in 1915 (ish) for patients with severe diabetes. I do not have diabetes. I am sure, when I go days at a time, and my carb count is 50g or less, I am most likely in ketosis. I didn't choose this lifestyle to stop insulin production and control that production, but it eliminate all the things at the grocery store that I needed to stop eating. At least for now.
Maybe Keto people, again maybe not most, can't speak for others, but maybe they like the fact that you learn how to read labels, cuts foods out of your diet, and can then eat food groups that as close to whole foods and you can, & see how your body reacts to certain foods. You will know if one food or another spikes your insulin, for example. I will not. I was honest. I don't test my blood. Not every day. Not ever.
But Keto can really help people understand how foods they consume effect their body through insulin and sugar levels. And to them, or me, that, along with carbs, is a huge factor in controlling what one eats to lose weight.
So why this diet? Or why not low carb? The available information and video made it easy for me to learn a simplistic practice. Getting pastas, breads, sugars out of the way, and concentrate on only a few things made my dietary list easy to maintain. I will not eat most veggies. Not your broccoli, squash, cauliflower (including cauliflower doughs or rice), peas, sprouts, etc... So any diet that requires lots of veggies, like the Mediterranean, is a no go.
Because we are talking Keto and our thoughts here, I want people to know that you will find some truly fanatics that will judge you by what you are willing to accept. The lazy part of keto. Lazy keto. If you are not making your own mayo. Or if you open a can of anything. Or if you don't buy that pasture fed. When anyone interested in Keto starts watching video online, it may be very easy to be dissuaded from Keto. Not only are they asking you to give up beads, pastas, and sugars, then they go into this whole skip this because of GMOs and skip that because of low fat is really just stripped nutrients and then they add additives and processed junk back in to get it to low fat. It would intimidate most. Probably does.
So why am I trying hard to expose Keto and say yes, I am trying it, but I am also being honest about it, but as with any concerted effort, one can lose weight, if one eats better, and counts every gram they eat.
So when you are riding me for openly discussing eating processed foods, it is because I want people to know that on Keto, there are processed foods. You made such a big deal of my openness that I wanted to just walk away. But I am still here trying to answer questions. I made a slight error when I was describing what I was doing, which was lazy keto, but accidentally called it Dirty. I honestly felt if you knew the subject matter, you should have caught that error and known I meant Lazy, not Dirty. But I don't think you know Keto as well as you may think. But that's okay. I was willing to discuss this. But you just wanted to ride me about mistakes.
Even now, you are asking: Why is the distinction between "keto" and "lazy keto" meaningful for you?
Because I simply was trying to be open about my experience with Keto and which form of Keto I was taking. Not Dirty. Not strict. But more or less Lazy keto. Which is why I asked how are you defining Keto. I hope that answers your question.
First, I believe keto was designed as a treatment for epilepsy, not diabetes.
I'm not "riding" you for eating processed foods. I'm pointing out that the description of keto that you gave (eliminating processed foods) doesn't fit with the way you describe yourself eating.
I don't think it's fair for you to expect your readers to catch your errors and understand when you say something wrong that you actually mean something else. "Lazy" and "Dirty" keto are not objective descriptions with independent meanings that are fixed. Looking around online can find varying definitions of them. If you use one when you mean another, people are going to go by what you write. And for you to proclaim that me thinking you actually mean what you're writing means I don't understand keto as well as you do, well, that doesn't really make sense. Just write what you mean and own it when you make a mistake.
I still don't understand what "lazy" keto means to you, specifically. You're so hung up on how others are describing keto and what they think of it -- how would you describe what you're doing?8 -
foolforcarbos wrote: »Keto isn't complicated. It's multifaceted. It's like karate with different colored belts. Or levels. How pure does one want to go with their keto? But then again, I guess all diets are multifaceted. Whether cheat days, or not counting every ounce and gram, or not worrying about that slip or snack. How regimented, in either Keto or any diet can make or break a diet.
Most diets fail because people are lazy and don't put in the work, count the calories, and stay to some adherence of a food plan. So in time, they opt for the next fad. Calling Keto a fad? It was designed and has been around since 1915ish. But sure, it's popular and a fad. What's next and what will take it's place. Doesn't matter. If you cheat enough on any diet, you won't succeed.
If keto isn't complicated, why do you think so many people try to discuss it as if it is, with talk of avoiding GMOs and "excitogenitens" and getting rid of processed foods? Does it come back to the stuff about golfers and photographers, that people have a vested interest in discouraging others?5 -
foolforcarbos wrote: »Keto isn't complicated. It's multifaceted. It's like karate with different colored belts. Or levels. How pure does one want to go with their keto? But then again, I guess all diets are multifaceted. Whether cheat days, or not counting every ounce and gram, or not worrying about that slip or snack. How regimented, in either Keto or any diet can make or break a diet.
Most diets fail because people are lazy and don't put in the work, count the calories, and stay to some adherence of a food plan. So in time, they opt for the next fad. Calling Keto a fad? It was designed and has been around since 1915ish. But sure, it's popular and a fad. What's next and what will take it's place. Doesn't matter. If you cheat enough on any diet, you won't succeed.
Keto IS a fad. It was designed in the 1920's as a medical treatment for seizure disorders and was used as such for the next 8 decades. The use of it for weight loss exploded a few years ago and is expected to wane within the next 2 years (the normal cycle of a fad). Most who claim they are doing keto aren't because they find it hard to eat 90% fat (the amount called for in classic keto). Yes, it has been modified so people doing modified keto eat 75% fat.4 -
foolforcarbos wrote: »Keto isn't complicated. It's multifaceted. It's like karate with different colored belts. Or levels. How pure does one want to go with their keto? But then again, I guess all diets are multifaceted. Whether cheat days, or not counting every ounce and gram, or not worrying about that slip or snack. How regimented, in either Keto or any diet can make or break a diet.
Most diets fail because people are lazy and don't put in the work, count the calories, and stay to some adherence of a food plan. So in time, they opt for the next fad. Calling Keto a fad? It was designed and has been around since 1915ish. But sure, it's popular and a fad. What's next and what will take it's place. Doesn't matter. If you cheat enough on any diet, you won't succeed.
Keto IS a fad. It was designed in the 1920's as a medical treatment for seizure disorders and was used as such for the next 8 decades. The use of it for weight loss exploded a few years ago and is expected to wane within the next 2 years (the normal cycle of a fad). Most who claim they are doing keto aren't because they find it hard to eat 90% fat (the amount called for in classic keto). Yes, it has been modified so people doing modified keto eat 75% fat.
Yes, this is a good point. When keto proponents cite the history of keto, they typically don't mention that most people using it for weight management aren't following the diet as originally designed for epilepsy control. The original diet requires supplementation of B vitamins, calcium, and vitamin D, as foods that contain them are so restricted.
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foolforcarbos wrote: »How are we defining Keto in the discussion? That you must be in ketosis (with only the occassional bump)? Or that someone is saying they are trying the keto diet?
The way it is normally defined is "eating sufficiently low carbs such that you are in ketosis or are likely to be soon if you keep eating that way."I thought these were fair questions to open a conversation. Instead, I get accused of not knowing facts, attacking carb eaters, using processed foods only because I stated openly that in Keto one still will use some processed foods, etc...
Your posts are confusing. Keto has nothing to do with eating processed foods or not. I rarely eat ultraprocessed foods (I actually do make mayo if I want it, and I never eat pasta sauce from a jar, as it tastes much better made at home). But I am not keto. When I did briefly experiment with keto I continued to eat many of the processed foods I eat now (oils, cheese). I also saw that others doing keto often ate way more -- there are plenty of options for people doing very low carb/keto these days in that it's so popular.
What I cut out of my diet to get my carbs down were foods like fruit, beans, potatoes, occasional pasta, as well as having to eat slightly less nuts, yogurt, and even non starchy veg than I normally do. So again, nothing to do with cutting out "processed" foods (sure, pasta is processed, but it's not like people doing keto don't often buy low carb wraps and such things which are every bit as processed).
So I think claiming keto=avoiding processed foods is wrong. Keto is about how many carbs you eat, that's really all.
And of course lots of people who don't do keto might avoid highly processed foods. WFPB is usually not low carb, yet also doesn't involve lots of processed foods, of course.You, sir, know the first thing a person who is interested in starting Keto will do. Go through the pantry and get rid of all the labels that have ingredients they can't pronounce.
I didn't do this at all.
Of course, if one DOES eat lots of foods from packages, one would want to look at how many carbs were in those foods to see if they would fit. One would also want to check the carbs in whole foods for the same reason (bye, bye dried beans and apples).
You seem to be confusing two different things: (1) eating a mostly whole foods diet; and (2) cutting carbs.6 -
There is strict keto. These people have unlimited resources to purchase expensive non-grain fed (no GMO) pasture fed meats, eggs, etc... It's like saying organic but to the strictest degree. They literally make their own mayo, condiments, their version of their breads, pancakes, waffles, whatever. They are purist.
There is lazy keto. They buy mayo. They eat the occasional food out of a can, or don't buy pasture fed or may not necessarily get organic. They concede they are willing to not meet the goals of purists and in doing so, use some processed foods.
Then I guess, there is Dirty keto. I see different variations of this, so I am not commenting.
Every Keto follower reads labels and avoid lots of items in ingredients. Most know there are over 60 ways to list sugar as an ingredient. Or over 20 ways to list MSG. Keto means cutting out ingredients that aren't whole. So that corn syrup, or that carageenan, or that whatever, doesn't belong in food. That could be very complicated.
You may be trying to all of a sudden look up terms for keto. I think you would need, like I have, and most, to watch all the channels and gather all the information, mostly but not limited to, all the various videos online from Dr Nick to Keto Connect. But even they will change their direction, just as AllyMcWowie did on the video I posted. She said she did this, but now does that.
Do you know what pasture fed means? That for 4 months of the year, the cows are in a pasture. For the rest of the year, especially when there is 4 ft of snow on the ground, they eat feed. What is that feed? GMO corn? Who knows.
Keto people may not know there are only ten (10) food manufacturers in the US. But they do believe that every company and corporation that makes food is putting things in there, and stripping things out of there, for their benefit, not ours. Watch Keto videos and you will quickly find one of the first things is you throw out all the food with labels that aren't Keto friendly.
I honestly am trying here. You keep getting on me about what you feel are my mistakes. There is no mistake saying Keto is getting rid of processed food and going to whole foods. But that one will still be getting some processed foods. That's Keto.
My question is do you honestly know Keto? Or are you just now learning about Keto and looking up the terms and definitions as our conversation progresses? Now you are correcting me about whether Keto was developed for epilepsy, and not diabetes. I am telling you the earliest I found from a prescription for a keto diet was for severe diabetic patients. If you are going to go to Wikipedia and other sources and look up everything I try to explain and what I have found, and fact check me by your limited time and research, then I can only say I have put in the hours and and doing my best to be as honest as I can. But I was going into this thread, this topic expecting people to have a good general knowledge of Keto, and not that all of a sudden I was going to be the one to discuss Keto101.0 -
foolforcarbos wrote: »
I honestly am trying here. You keep getting on me about what you feel are my mistakes. There is no mistake saying Keto is getting rid of processed food and going to whole foods. But that one will still be getting some processed foods. That's Keto.
*snipped for brevity*
My question is do you honestly know Keto? Or are you just now learning about Keto and looking up the terms and definitions as our conversation progresses? Now you are correcting me about whether Keto was developed for epilepsy, and not diabetes.
*snipped again*
1) No it isn't. The Ketogenic diet is eating ultra high fat and few if any carbs. Period.
2) It was developed in 1925 as a treatment for Epilepsy in Children. Here is a peer reviewed scholarly paper discussing the history of the Ketogenic Diet. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19049574
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foolforcarbos wrote: »There is strict keto. These people have unlimited resources to purchase expensive non-grain fed (no GMO) pasture fed meats, eggs, etc... It's like saying organic but to the strictest degree. They literally make their own mayo, condiments, their version of their breads, pancakes, waffles, whatever. They are purist.
There is lazy keto. They buy mayo. They eat the occasional food out of a can, or don't buy pasture fed or may not necessarily get organic. They concede they are willing to not meet the goals of purists and in doing so, use some processed foods.
Then I guess, there is Dirty keto. I see different variations of this, so I am not commenting.
Every Keto follower reads labels and avoid lots of items in ingredients. Most know there are over 60 ways to list sugar as an ingredient. Or over 20 ways to list MSG. Keto means cutting out ingredients that aren't whole. So that corn syrup, or that carageenan, or that whatever, doesn't belong in food. That could be very complicated.
You may be trying to all of a sudden look up terms for keto. I think you would need, like I have, and most, to watch all the channels and gather all the information, mostly but not limited to, all the various videos online from Dr Nick to Keto Connect. But even they will change their direction, just as AllyMcWowie did on the video I posted. She said she did this, but now does that.
Do you know what pasture fed means? That for 4 months of the year, the cows are in a pasture. For the rest of the year, especially when there is 4 ft of snow on the ground, they eat feed. What is that feed? GMO corn? Who knows.
Keto people may not know there are only ten (10) food manufacturers in the US. But they do believe that every company and corporation that makes food is putting things in there, and stripping things out of there, for their benefit, not ours. Watch Keto videos and you will quickly find one of the first things is you throw out all the food with labels that aren't Keto friendly.
I honestly am trying here. You keep getting on me about what you feel are my mistakes. There is no mistake saying Keto is getting rid of processed food and going to whole foods. But that one will still be getting some processed foods. That's Keto.
My question is do you honestly know Keto? Or are you just now learning about Keto and looking up the terms and definitions as our conversation progresses? Now you are correcting me about whether Keto was developed for epilepsy, and not diabetes. I am telling you the earliest I found from a prescription for a keto diet was for severe diabetic patients. If you are going to go to Wikipedia and other sources and look up everything I try to explain and what I have found, and fact check me by your limited time and research, then I can only say I have put in the hours and and doing my best to be as honest as I can. But I was going into this thread, this topic expecting people to have a good general knowledge of Keto, and not that all of a sudden I was going to be the one to discuss Keto101.
It may help the conversation if you refer to who you're responding to, as a couple of different people are responding to your posts. I believe you're responding to me here, but I could be wrong.
Can you share where you learned that "strict keto" means you would never eat anything from a can? I know some people who would self-define as strict with their keto and they will sometimes eat foods like canned tuna or coconut milk. They wouldn't limit a food just because of how it was packaged -- they choose what to include in their diet based on how it fits into their macro goals.
Can you share where you learned that "keto means cutting out ingredients that aren't whole"? Again, the keto adherents I know eat a variety of foods. Some are whole foods and some aren't. They're choosing foods based on macronutrient content. They may or may not be avoiding stuff that is ultra-processed or highly processed, but they're still not just eating whole foods.
I learned about keto by reading about it. I don't particularly enjoy watching YouTube videos and I've found that they're also a very poor source for accurate information on nutrition, so I haven't watched any of the videos you mention. But if the information in them is accurate, I'm guessing there are written sources for the information. And people managed to learn about human nutrition way before YouTube was invented, so I'm fine sticking with my old-fashioned approach. I've also read posts by keto adherents here and had several lengthy conversations with friends who are doing keto so I can better understand how it works in their life.
You aren't doing Keto 101 with me. I actually know about it, which is why your claims about processed food and only eating whole foods do seem a bit out of the ordinary to me. I don't think you need to do Keto 101 with anybody in this thread, as most of us are very interested in nutrition and various diets and tend to know more than the average person. That's why you'll often be asked to share how you came to certain conclusions.
This bit is contradictory: "There is no mistake saying Keto is getting rid of processed food and going to whole foods. But that one will still be getting some processed foods." If you're getting rid of processed foods and going to whole foods, but you're still getting processed foods, then what exactly is happening?6 -
foolforcarbos wrote: »There is strict keto. These people have unlimited resources to purchase expensive non-grain fed (no GMO) pasture fed meats, eggs, etc... It's like saying organic but to the strictest degree. They literally make their own mayo, condiments, their version of their breads, pancakes, waffles, whatever. They are purist.
Who is the source of this definition? Some YouTubers, like you seem to mention below?
This is like claiming one has to do some faddish raw 80-10-10 mostly fruit diet to do "real" vegan, because there are a lot of YTers (probably fewer than there used to be) who push that way of doing it.Every Keto follower reads labels and avoid lots of items in ingredients. Most know there are over 60 ways to list sugar as an ingredient. Or over 20 ways to list MSG. Keto means cutting out ingredients that aren't whole. So that corn syrup, or that carageenan, or that whatever, doesn't belong in food. That could be very complicated.
No, keto followers limit carbs. Yes, this means that they will tend to avoid foods with lots of sugar, but it's not like you need to know the names of sugar-type ingredients (which is not all that hard anyway). It means they will look at the grams of carbs in the food, as well as the fiber. There are many packaged foods that have been created to be keto-friendly.Do you know what pasture fed means? That for 4 months of the year, the cows are in a pasture. For the rest of the year, especially when there is 4 ft of snow on the ground, they eat feed. What is that feed? GMO corn? Who knows.
I think there are reasons to prefer pasture-fed and finished meat but it has zero to do with whether or not the meat is keto-friendly (it is, it's fat and protein).My question is do you honestly know Keto?
We've been talking about keto on this site for ages. I tried it out of curiosity. I used to be a member of the excellent keto group here, and have read a lot about keto. So I think we do know keto.
And the people who said keto was originally prescribed for epilepsy are correct.7 -
foolforcarbos wrote: »There is no mistake saying Keto is getting rid of processed food and going to whole foods.
This is absolutely not what keto is...
10 -
I find it interesting that every way of eating comes with a complicated hierarchy of virtue signaling. The diets* seem to all have versions with labels reflecting a moral component to how one eats, based on often self-defined criteria. "dirty", "clean", "strict", "lazy", "pure", "bad", "good".
Saying "My definition of keto is..." is generally neutral unless the author adds context that sets that diet above others. People may disagree but everyone is on a level moral playing field. Saying "There is strict keto" followed by a definition that embodies a number of traditional virtues (pure and hard working, for instance) then defining other ways of approaching the diet as lazy and dirty creates a moral high ground that automatically sets those who follow a less rigid diet at a moral disadvantage.
*as in way of eating7 -
Feeling like this thread needs a lighter moment. But it's still on topic! At Costco yesterday:
8 -
foolforcarbos wrote: »There is strict keto. These people have unlimited resources to purchase expensive non-grain fed (no GMO) pasture fed meats, eggs, etc... It's like saying organic but to the strictest degree. They literally make their own mayo, condiments, their version of their breads, pancakes, waffles, whatever. They are purist.
There is lazy keto. They buy mayo. They eat the occasional food out of a can, or don't buy pasture fed or may not necessarily get organic. They concede they are willing to not meet the goals of purists and in doing so, use some processed foods.
[snip]
That's not how my neighbor, who has been doing keto for some time, defines lazy keto. Her definition is more like healthline's. Both have nothing to do with cans, pasture fed, or organic.
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/lazy-keto#what-it-is
...Traditional keto diets require you to closely track your macronutrient intake and follow a strict, very-low-carb, high-fat eating pattern that includes only moderate amounts of protein (4, 5).
The intention is to induce ketosis, a metabolic state in which your body burns fat as its primary source of fuel (6).
Like most variations of the ketogenic diet, lazy keto dramatically restricts your carb intake. Typically, carbs are restricted to around 5–10% of your total daily calories — or around 20–50 grams per day for most people (7).
However, you don’t have to worry about tracking calories, protein, or fat on lazy keto.3 -
paperpudding,
In the words of of the great Inigo Montoyo, "I don't think that means what you think it means."0 -
paperpudding,
In the words of of the great Inigo Montoyo, "I don't think that means what you think it means."
It might help if you quote the person you are trying to respond to. Between responses like the one above, and your random made up labels and definitions of keto, I am finding you extremely hard to follow. Just a page or two back you flat out said you didn't think you are in ketosis, yet you seem to think you are doing the purest form of keto there is. That seems to be a huge contradiction to me, and I'm obviously not the only person who is confused by your stance.4
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