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What are your thoughts on Keto?

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  • foolforcarbosfoolforcarbos Member Posts: 70 Member Member Posts: 70 Member
    There is Keto - where the only way to know if you are in ketosis, and producing ketones, is a blood sugar measurement, daily. There is Dirty Keto - or low carb. I am starting day 18. I went from 177 lbs to 160 today. I went from a belly measurement of 44 inches to 38 inches, today. I am following, best I can, Keto.

    But I am also stating I am still eating carbs, like Dave's Killer Bread Good Seed from time to time, at a slice or two for a sandwich, to the occasional glass of whole milk. Most my food is whole food. Sure, I am not making my own pasta sauce. It's a can. Or not making my own bone broth, heavy whipping cream, sour cream, or those zero carb pork skins. My carb count, if it matters, is between 25-96 with a few days well over 100, like 130. But two weeks ago, it was 500g a day.

    Am I in Ketosis? I doubt it and really may never get into ketosis. But I am not getting hung up on the details, which apparently some here like to do. So, is my food intake, thus far, really low carb? Is it just counting calories? Is it whole foods? Are there processed foods? Again, if there are results, does it matter. How are we defining Keto in the discussion? That you must be in ketosis (with only the occassional bump)? Or that someone is saying they are trying the keto diet?

    I see a lot of people making assumptions here, (including dried beans being consumed by keto follower ?), to pointing out all the recipes on Pinterest, which we have no idea, as in a clinical study, if those folks are following a regimented keto diet and are staying in ketosis, or dirty keto, or low carb, or wishful thinking. What I find on Pinterest is people's wish lists. Wishing they could start and do that which they pin. Most just simply pin. And never actually make, create, purchase, or whatever their pinboard shows off.

    But seeing as this thread is about keto thoughts, many many will start to follow some type of keto plan and start eating, what they feel, is a keto diet. There are so many youtube video on it, and they follow the Keto Kamp, Keto Konnect, FlavCity with Bobby, Dr. Nick, and on an on. Apparently, there will be so many who are going to detract and tear it apart, just as any other diet. Some people just have to push that their way works for them. Hey, that's great. But dear detractors, you are pushing your way. That seems to work for you. Keto people feel their way works.

    Are they tearing apart your diet? Have I ever said you can't eat carbs? Or eat processed foods? No. I am stating what I know of Keto after hundreds of hours of videos, research, and books. Amazing how people here treat others who actually know a thing or two. Yes, let's call them silly for stating facts. Great. Look. There will be folks who will swear by it, and those who absolutely detest it. But did they really follow it? Who knows. Doesn't matter. They hate it, fine. But boy do people here just talk to talk, without facts.

    Keto has been around since 1915, so it's not exactly a fad, just very popular right now. Can you say it's an Adkins diet, only if you are really generalizing. They're not the same. For all the people who think well, people are eating fat bombs (Adkins) that are processed foods so obviously there is a lot of processed foods in a keto diet, you may not understand keto. My experience, and all the places I have followed, have people finding some whole way to replace some processed food. They find ways to make their own bombs, not buy them. But can they? No. There will always be some process something as an ingredient somewhere.

    Where people fail in diets at the start, is not counting for everything they truly are eating. Not working on it as hard as it may take. Not exercising. And in the end, not being honest with themselves and the program they decided to try. If you really boil it down, then yes, calories in calories out. But the body doesn't process each calorie the same. That's why I am not into the statement CICO.

    We all take a plate, or a bowl, or grab a snack and all have to decide what to do with it. We can divide that plate in half and put veggies, and then divide the remaining in half and put protein for 1/4 of the plate, and either carbs or fat for the other portion left, but we all deal with carbs, protein, and fats.

    A keto lifestyle is simply a way to avoid processed foods, corns, starches, and refined carbs. Breads. Pastas. Sugars. There is strict keto, dirty keto, and many, like me, who are just learning and trying and probably are really just low carb and not even keto. Who knows. They may pin things on their boards on Pinterest. They may just simply bookmark recipes. Don't know.

    But amazingly, how many here instantly tear down the walls of the keto follower just because they are looking for that thread to pull. But even more amazing was the people here who think people aren't addicted to food and there is no such thing like carb addiction. Maybe just a lack of studies to conclusively prove it, but I guess there are always those who demand proof beyond their doubts.

    I really wonder why so many here can't just be happy if something is working. Janejellyroll, if people are going out of their way to consume processed foods as freely as you make it seem, then are they really on a keto diet, following their blood sugars, and in ketosis? I doubt it. How can they? Are they really just low carb? CICO? I'm starting to wonder how many here really understand keto and ketones and burning a different fat and how the whole process works in the body. Or are they stating opinions just by a casual observation and really don't know about Keto. I guess, in the long run, it doesn't matter.

    Thanks for those who read this. I decided not to post any new threads and just respond to current threads, as it is nice to talk about things that work and where you are at and hearing where others are at, but in truth find this forum is no different than facebook or any other social media. People simply push back on everything. Nothing is common sense. These aren't really discussions. And it is more of the same, people being negative to make their outcome seem so positive. Or in other words, basically putting people down to make themselves look better.

    One thing I can say, at 56 years old, is you can tear apart anything or any person and nitpick to the point that you hate em. Or you can accept their flaws, make a place for them in your life, or their choices, and not constantly correct them by your opinions and your flawed facts. No one here really has the answer except what may or may not work for them, personally. We aren't consulting for people, watching their weight on a daily, weekly, or monthly basis, and thus we aren't ensuring they are or are not failing because of some unknown reason. Maybe they just can't stick to a diet. And maybe it is for that person, willpower.

    kimny72 who states a lot of good things, but I feel nailed it with this: We all have different weaknesses and buttons to push. The people who succeed stop worrying about joining the right movement or figuring out the big universal secret, and just figure out how to best work around their weak points and utilize their strengths.
  • Biggiwig69Biggiwig69 Member Posts: 33 Member Member Posts: 33 Member
    Tried it, hated it. I felt terrible. I thought after a few days it would get better and it‘s just the Keto-flu the first few days but after 2 week I felt really bad. Headaches, constipation, no energy etc.
    Back to my low carb diet (100 - 150 g carbs a day) Doing great now.
  • foolforcarbosfoolforcarbos Member Posts: 70 Member Member Posts: 70 Member
    Keto is about changing your body to get energy from fat and create ketones. I have a great understanding about keto. Some of the criticisms you say are exactly what they OP asked for, aren't based on facts, but simply their bodies, or mindset, their opinions, or their speculations about keto.

    Yes, I stated I do eat some processed foods, as I don't make my own mayo, or pork skins, or pasta sauce, but I also didn't think I had to state that a keto person is reading the label and ingredients to ensure they are not getting refined carbs and foods that have been stripped of nutrients and fibers and filled with additive and sugars. I know I am reading labels, like all keto followers, and so what, I stated I am eating some processed foods. But to turn that around and then say: By your own statements, YOU eat processed foods. Pork rinds, sour cream, bone broth, jarred pasta sauce, these things didn't spring from the ground to your plate. They all involve processing. There's nothing wrong with that. Wow. I, like all people getting on Keto are reading labels and cutting out all the foods that are overly processed and stripped down and rebuilt. So yes, I may say, or concede that there is processed foods, at times, in low moderation, in Keto, it's not that I am changing my definitions. I guess for you few that you have to spell out everything. Overly processed food that contain ingredients most people can't pronounce and avoiding all the variations of sugars, MSG, and excitotoxins, are generally kept out of the Keto plan.

    If y'all are so smart about keto one would think I could just talk freely and not be corrected every time by your incessant demand that you know more and I know oh, so little and am confused. Great. Okay. You win.

    I can have great conversations with others who are also working keto lifestyles. Come here and it's like constantly have to fight. You keep saying I am very specific for what works for me. That's not true. I am stating what I am doing, and trying to prove that I may not even be following the perfect Keto and that I am or may not be in ketosis, as I am not going to prick my finger and measure my blood every day. I am not a diabetic and don't need to. But I am also stating facts and now it's two of you saying I don't know my facts. Really. Okay, I just stick to the people who actually understand the conversation and bow out of this one. I do not care. I don't need the aggravation.

    Y'all have between 14,000+ or 27,000+ posts that I am sure perfectly state your opinions. Keep it up. Great work. I'm done with this. Sorry that I wasn't explicit enough for you to follow along and that I have to be so exact in everything. Goodbye.
  • GaleHawkinsGaleHawkins Member Posts: 7,951 Member Member Posts: 7,951 Member
    Keto is about changing your body to get energy from fat and create ketones. I have a great understanding about keto. Some of the criticisms you say are exactly what they OP asked for, aren't based on facts, but simply their bodies, or mindset, their opinions, or their speculations about keto.

    Yes, I stated I do eat some processed foods, as I don't make my own mayo, or pork skins, or pasta sauce, but I also didn't think I had to state that a keto person is reading the label and ingredients to ensure they are not getting refined carbs and foods that have been stripped of nutrients and fibers and filled with additive and sugars. I know I am reading labels, like all keto followers, and so what, I stated I am eating some processed foods. But to turn that around and then say: By your own statements, YOU eat processed foods. Pork rinds, sour cream, bone broth, jarred pasta sauce, these things didn't spring from the ground to your plate. They all involve processing. There's nothing wrong with that. Wow. I, like all people getting on Keto are reading labels and cutting out all the foods that are overly processed and stripped down and rebuilt. So yes, I may say, or concede that there is processed foods, at times, in low moderation, in Keto, it's not that I am changing my definitions. I guess for you few that you have to spell out everything. Overly processed food that contain ingredients most people can't pronounce and avoiding all the variations of sugars, MSG, and excitotoxins, are generally kept out of the Keto plan.

    If y'all are so smart about keto one would think I could just talk freely and not be corrected every time by your incessant demand that you know more and I know oh, so little and am confused. Great. Okay. You win.

    I can have great conversations with others who are also working keto lifestyles. Come here and it's like constantly have to fight. You keep saying I am very specific for what works for me. That's not true. I am stating what I am doing, and trying to prove that I may not even be following the perfect Keto and that I am or may not be in ketosis, as I am not going to prick my finger and measure my blood every day. I am not a diabetic and don't need to. But I am also stating facts and now it's two of you saying I don't know my facts. Really. Okay, I just stick to the people who actually understand the conversation and bow out of this one. I do not care. I don't need the aggravation.

    Y'all have between 14,000+ or 27,000+ posts that I am sure perfectly state your opinions. Keep it up. Great work. I'm done with this. Sorry that I wasn't explicit enough for you to follow along and that I have to be so exact in everything. Goodbye.

    @foolforcarbos take a look at your user name. It is clear you now a lot about Keto and have great experience with Keto personal but being confrontational to people out to get your goat is not helpful to the the masses that can be helped with some version of Keto or just the knowledge about a different Ways Of Eating. Try to hang in there. Most people being helped by MFP never post but are looking for help to prevent premature health declines.

    That is the reason I use my real name with real info in my profile so people can read my posts along with my LinkedIn profile so they can understand my history since high school in just one Google search. I am a 69 year old male and would tell my young daughter never to be that revealing so I understand hidden profiles and fake names.

    At the same time it is not best to fight with people that just live to fight. Just look at the people with type 2 diabetics now facing the risk of COVID-19. Had they known about how many people around the world now have fasting blood glucose levels below 100 after doing Keto for a relative short time they might have lowered their risk of harm from COVID-19.

    Ignore those that just want to run you off the road into the ditch. People will be making false statements to harm others as long as there are people on Earth or even Mars if Elon Musk gets it fixed up for us to live on some day.

    Best of continued health.
  • hesn92hesn92 Member Posts: 5,852 Member Member Posts: 5,852 Member
    It's the "in" thing right now for whatever reason. It doesn't sound appealing to me whatsoever but whatever floats your boat I guess.
  • pence429pence429 Member Posts: 28 Member Member Posts: 28 Member
    Dear paperpudding,

    Deprived by definition means suffering from the loss of something. I don't smoke cigarettes because I don't want to; am I depriving myself? Am I suffering for the lack of cigarettes? That's silly.

    I don't eat most meats because I don't want to; the thought grosses me out. I didn't eat them long before keto. I don't eat grains because they cause GI distress for me. All these years later, I don't miss those grains or the pain they cause me. I'm not suffering--I eating how I want to. This is the whole reason keto works for me--I'm eating in manner that is sustainable for me.
  • foolforcarbosfoolforcarbos Member Posts: 70 Member Member Posts: 70 Member
    Dear Gale,

    Thank you for your response. So let me address a few things, as truly after this I am not addressing anyone or anything else after this last thoughts.

    I asked the following:

    Am I in Ketosis? I doubt it and really may never get into ketosis. But I am not getting hung up on the details, which apparently some here like to do. So, is my food intake, thus far, really low carb? Is it just counting calories? Is it whole foods? Are there processed foods? Again, if there are results, does it matter. How are we defining Keto in the discussion? That you must be in ketosis (with only the occassional bump)? Or that someone is saying they are trying the keto diet?

    I thought these were fair questions to open a conversation. Instead, I get accused of not knowing facts, attacking carb eaters, using processed foods only because I stated openly that in Keto one still will use some processed foods, etc...

    On the accusations, I can't see how asking questions to define how we are discussing Keto means I am changing my definitions and that I am only defining terms in such a specific way that define me personally. By asking how we are defining and discussing Keto?

    You, sir, know the first thing a person who is interested in starting Keto will do. Go through the pantry and get rid of all the labels that have ingredients they can't pronounce. You know Keto followers are going to still use some processed foods, but those are mainly whole ingredients. Pork skins are pork skins and salt. Sour cream is just cultured cream. Heavy whip cream is just heavy cream milk but will have less than .5% carrageenan. So one could, I guess debate carrageenan. If one is not making their own mayo, they may have a little soybean oil in the one they purchase.

    So I would think if others are here to talk about their experiences about Keto, and not hear in a forum to learn about Keto, then they, too would know that on Keto, there are always going to be some processed foods. If they have tried a Keto plan, then they know this. So for janejellyroll to say because I state that keto is about avoiding processed foods and then list all the processed foods you eat on keto, you're going to cause some confusion. Hunter gatherers may be eating whole foods, but if she knows the Keto diet, she knows one will have to have some processed foods. Limited. And ingredients that are as close to whole as possible. So why she is so hung up on this, beyond me. Which simply means her way of thinking vs my way of thinking don't align. I mean Keto followers will debate all kinds of ingredients. Or pasture fed. Or cage free. Or stress free open outside ranges.

    Again, if they know their Keto diets, lifestyles, or demands, they know this. Why criticism me for giving them credit for know this, if we are here talking about our thoughts on Keto. Not learning Keto abc123.

    So the debate of organic vs organic pasture feed, if one watches almost any of the youtube videos, that person will have to decide if, indeed, it is a given that if something is fed corn, that one must assume it was GMO corn. (I don't buy into that, but how can one be certain of which corn was used.) But I, again, get flak for stating these are the issued discussed in the Keto world, which they seem positive they know, but yet they don't know about these little nuances. Hmm.

    How about the last one. Discussing excitotoxins and being accused of now bringing that into the conversation, when I already discussed them by stating there are over 20 ways a food producer/processor can list MSG. (edit*) And we were talking about carb addictions!

    And missNY seems really hung up on defending carbs, when you also know that carbs isn't really Keto inasmuch as Keto is training the body to find it's energy from fats, producing ketones, and that most likely one would have to limit carbs to stay in ketosis. She knows that. So I am giving her credit for knowing that, as we converse. But no, that's not good enough.

    I fully understand Keto. Yes. And have my boundaries - where some push further into the Keto universe, whereas I am not going to those depths. And was open about it. Asked questions about it. And gave an opportunity for rebuttals, like: foolforcarbos, if you aren't sure or may not be in ketosis, then maybe you really aren't on keto. Fine. I agree. But I stated, I am not testing my blood every day, don't have diabetes, and am not bashing carbs, and stated I do eat a few more than a typical Keto guru. I know I do, or must. And I even stated the only way I could know if I am in ketosis, it measuring blood. If not, again, then am I really a low carb eater. Seems a fair question. But oh, let missNY get on me for not understanding my information or keto. It was question I felt worth asking.

    So thank you. But I went kayaking this evening. Nice sunset. Perfect weather. Cool still and not hot. Loved meeting some new people, having great conversations, and won't miss this part of the process. I am not going to, nor feel I have preached Keto. I posted 2 resources of which they both talk about the pros and cons of keto, so did these girls even watch the video before ripping into me? Who knows. But ripping me for saying these are two good resources. And how I must be bashing carb eaters?

    Thank you and have a great time on your keto lifestyle. And I will go one with life enjoying me endeavors and in truth, hope everyone here finds their success. :) PS. A texan here. We tend to push back when people try to get our goats up. ;) Or walk away. Far away. :)
    edited March 12
  • paperpuddingpaperpudding Member Posts: 6,098 Member Member Posts: 6,098 Member
    pence429 wrote: »
    Dear paperpudding,

    Deprived by definition means suffering from the loss of something. I don't smoke cigarettes because I don't want to; am I depriving myself? Am I suffering for the lack of cigarettes? That's silly.

    I don't eat most meats because I don't want to; the thought grosses me out. I didn't eat them long before keto. I don't eat grains because they cause GI distress for me. All these years later, I don't miss those grains or the pain they cause me. I'm not suffering--I eating how I want to. This is the whole reason keto works for me--I'm eating in manner that is sustainable for me.


    I think what I was saying was quite clear and getting all nit picky on semantics of word meanings is not contributing anything.

    Sure, if eating keto is sustainable for you, carry on.

    But that doesn't change my point that for most people the restrictions required are too onerous and not worth it.

    ( which is exactly what I said before, albeit in different words)

  • foolforcarbosfoolforcarbos Member Posts: 70 Member Member Posts: 70 Member
    Opps. One correction. When I referred, in some of these posts, to Dirty Keto, that should have been Lazy Keto.

    So they were correct calling me out on the wrong term. Lazy Keto. My apologies.

    What is lazy Keto and dirty Keto?


    Dirty keto, which involves eating highly processed keto-friendly foods, including fast food (sans buns or fries), is often derided for its unhealthy approach. Lazy keto borders on derision in some keto circles, too.
  • CupcakeCrusoeCupcakeCrusoe Member Posts: 842 Member Member Posts: 842 Member
    Opps. One correction. When I referred, in some of these posts, to Dirty Keto, that should have been Lazy Keto.

    So they were correct calling me out on the wrong term. Lazy Keto. My apologies.

    What is lazy Keto and dirty Keto?


    Dirty keto, which involves eating highly processed keto-friendly foods, including fast food (sans buns or fries), is often derided for its unhealthy approach. Lazy keto borders on derision in some keto circles, too.

    I thought the whole point of calling a way of dieting "Keto" was that the point was to get into ketosis? With the test strips and everything? So who cares what you eat, as long as you accomplish ketosis?

    Anything where you're not worried about ketosis I might call "low-carb," but I am also not a subscriber to any of those things, so I have no skin in the game, so to speak.
  • foolforcarbosfoolforcarbos Member Posts: 70 Member Member Posts: 70 Member
    There are purists with photography where people believe you must do this, that, or the other or you aren't a photographer. There are purists in golf that believe you must do this or that to have the perfect swing. Some people get too hung up on the process and not the results. Purists.

    Here is a girl that lost 175 lbs. She also does not want to make her own spices, condiments, and so on. She will explain the whole lazy keto thing ;)

  • Raw_moonRaw_moon Member Posts: 18 Member Member Posts: 18 Member
    It is pretty inconvenient, but like any other strict diet/lifestyle change it just takes some getting used to and you find a bunch of new recipes you might not otherwise. I use it mainly to help with my mood disorder, it has been the only thing to actually make a difference in the many treatment plans I have tried. I have not yet felt energized by it like others say happens for them, which initially was why I started, it could be because of the deficit.
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