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  • xxxpopeyexxxxxxpopeyexxx Member Posts: 39 Member Member Posts: 39 Member
    Lillymoo01 wrote: »
    probably should go low carb, @100 grams/day, but still lose the bread. it's of limited nutritional value. vegetables are quick and easy. just needs proper dressing and/or seasoning. as are nuts, legumes and dairy.

    Or keep the bread if it is something you enjoy and something you know you will crave if you don't have it. The best way of losing weight is the one that you can adhere to long term, well into maintenance. It isn't just about losing weight but how to keep that weight off indefinitely once you achieve your goal. Don't make changes that you know you won't stick with. This just leads to yoyo dieting for most.

    by that way of thinking, why give up anything you crave if it's going to cause discomfort. and why even make changes to your diet or lifestyle at all.

    there was once a time when i thought there were many foods i couldn't live without, including ice cream, starchy vegetables, pasta, and bread too. that was until i found out i could live without them.

    of course it'll take time to overcome cravings, and instead follow your good sense, and choose nutritionally dense foods. it won't happen overnight. but replacing the junk with nutritionally dense lower carb food should still be a long term goal. and until that time happens portion control should be exercised.

    Exactly, why arbitrarily give up anything you crave if you feel better moderating it? That's how I lost the weight. I didn't give up anything, but I changed how much and/or how often I consume it. Some things felt better to lightly moderate, other things felt better to strictly moderate. If it causes less discomfort than the alternative but the end result is the same, why pick the harder route?

    I mean, yes, anyone can give up anything they choose and get used to that, but the question is: do they need to? Does it make their life easier? Is the change sustainable? Will being exposed to these foods feel harder or easier when they give them up (like in the case of social eating, for example)? All of these questions are worth asking because the best change is the easiest change you can make to achieve your goal and sustain it.

    Giving up bread and starchy carbs, in my case, would interfere with my goal of weight maintenance because they fill me up the most and I'm more likely to feel hungry without them.

    i'm not saying you can't lose weight on other diets, but bread is simply not compatible with the op's keto diet or even low carb diet. it contains too many carbs.

    i started out on a low calorie diet, low fat diet, and did lose weight, but my diet was lacking important nutrients, while consuming to much of the of the not so good nutrients like sodium and sugar, and i also felt like i was half starving myself all the time. once i changed to low carbohydrate and higher fat, i was able to eat a much higher quantity of food, enabling me to obtain high amounts of all the important nutrients, and never feel hungry. i completely lost every trace of my love handles, and have the body type of a fit 19 year old, and a bmi in the 19 range.

    to maintain lean weight in a healthy way, you need to emphasize food quality first of all.

    500 calories from bread and 500 calories from an avocado and a few eggs are entirely different. they have the same amount of energy, but the nutrients found in avocado and eggs far exceed the minuscule amount of nutrients that bread has. on keto, Meat Fish Dairy Eggs Vegetables Fruit (especially avocado, olives, berries) are acceptable.



    To have a healthy diet you need to have a good balance of nutrients. This can be achieved with or without keto. Your experience is important because it's yours. It simply means you do better eating a keto diet. Not everyone shares your experience. I was starving all the time on keto when I tried it.

    You can't really compare individual foods because most people's diets are made up of several foods. The comparison is also highly skewed to show the benefits of a certain eating philosophy. Why aren't you comparing 500 calories of bread (which does have a variety of nutrients) to 500 calories of oil or butter (which have a poor variety of nutrients but are compatible with keto)? Why aren't you comparing 500 calories of beans (which are highly nutritious but not compatible with keto) to 500 calories of bacon grease?

    i never said was on a keto diet. i recommended a low carb diet @100 grams of carbs/day, to the op.

    foods certainly can be compared, and bread ranks poorly in comparison, nutritionally, to most vegetables or other keto diet items.

    why should i compare bacon grease to bread? who's advocating a low carb diet that consists of a substantial amount of bacon grease?

    beans are more acceptable in the right amounts, than bread. much of the carbs are in the form of fiber and they contain higher protein.

  • xxxpopeyexxxxxxpopeyexxx Member Posts: 39 Member Member Posts: 39 Member
    Lillymoo01 wrote: »
    probably should go low carb, @100 grams/day, but still lose the bread. it's of limited nutritional value. vegetables are quick and easy. just needs proper dressing and/or seasoning. as are nuts, legumes and dairy.

    Or keep the bread if it is something you enjoy and something you know you will crave if you don't have it. The best way of losing weight is the one that you can adhere to long term, well into maintenance. It isn't just about losing weight but how to keep that weight off indefinitely once you achieve your goal. Don't make changes that you know you won't stick with. This just leads to yoyo dieting for most.

    by that way of thinking, why give up anything you crave if it's going to cause discomfort. and why even make changes to your diet or lifestyle at all.

    there was once a time when i thought there were many foods i couldn't live without, including ice cream, starchy vegetables, pasta, and bread too. that was until i found out i could live without them.

    of course it'll take time to overcome cravings, and instead follow your good sense, and choose nutritionally dense foods. it won't happen overnight. but replacing the junk with nutritionally dense lower carb food should still be a long term goal. and until that time happens portion control should be exercised.

    Exactly, why arbitrarily give up anything you crave if you feel better moderating it? That's how I lost the weight. I didn't give up anything, but I changed how much and/or how often I consume it. Some things felt better to lightly moderate, other things felt better to strictly moderate. If it causes less discomfort than the alternative but the end result is the same, why pick the harder route?

    I mean, yes, anyone can give up anything they choose and get used to that, but the question is: do they need to? Does it make their life easier? Is the change sustainable? Will being exposed to these foods feel harder or easier when they give them up (like in the case of social eating, for example)? All of these questions are worth asking because the best change is the easiest change you can make to achieve your goal and sustain it.

    Giving up bread and starchy carbs, in my case, would interfere with my goal of weight maintenance because they fill me up the most and I'm more likely to feel hungry without them.

    i'm not saying you can't lose weight on other diets, but bread is simply not compatible with the op's keto diet or even low carb diet. it contains too many carbs.

    i started out on a low calorie diet, low fat diet, and did lose weight, but my diet was lacking important nutrients, while consuming to much of the of the not so good nutrients like sodium and sugar, and i also felt like i was half starving myself all the time. once i changed to low carbohydrate and higher fat, i was able to eat a much higher quantity of food, enabling me to obtain high amounts of all the important nutrients, and never feel hungry. i completely lost every trace of my love handles, and have the body type of a fit 19 year old, and a bmi in the 19 range.

    to maintain lean weight in a healthy way, you need to emphasize food quality first of all.

    500 calories from bread and 500 calories from an avocado and a few eggs are entirely different. they have the same amount of energy, but the nutrients found in avocado and eggs far exceed the minuscule amount of nutrients that bread has. on keto, Meat Fish Dairy Eggs Vegetables Fruit (especially avocado, olives, berries) are acceptable.


    Bread does not contain 'too many carbs'. There are a lot of keto friendly breads, but even normal bread can be done in moderation and when you subtract dietary fiber.

    regular whole grain bread has about 25 carb's with 2 grams of fiber, per slice.

    try fitting that into a keto diet of 20 grams of carb's per day. lolol




  • xxxpopeyexxxxxxpopeyexxx Member Posts: 39 Member Member Posts: 39 Member
    ladyreva78 wrote: »
    Lillymoo01 wrote: »
    probably should go low carb, @100 grams/day, but still lose the bread. it's of limited nutritional value. vegetables are quick and easy. just needs proper dressing and/or seasoning. as are nuts, legumes and dairy.

    Or keep the bread if it is something you enjoy and something you know you will crave if you don't have it. The best way of losing weight is the one that you can adhere to long term, well into maintenance. It isn't just about losing weight but how to keep that weight off indefinitely once you achieve your goal. Don't make changes that you know you won't stick with. This just leads to yoyo dieting for most.

    by that way of thinking, why give up anything you crave if it's going to cause discomfort. and why even make changes to your diet or lifestyle at all.

    there was once a time when i thought there were many foods i couldn't live without, including ice cream, starchy vegetables, pasta, and bread too. that was until i found out i could live without them.

    of course it'll take time to overcome cravings, and instead follow your good sense, and choose nutritionally dense foods. it won't happen overnight. but replacing the junk with nutritionally dense lower carb food should still be a long term goal. and until that time happens portion control should be exercised.

    Exactly, why arbitrarily give up anything you crave if you feel better moderating it? That's how I lost the weight. I didn't give up anything, but I changed how much and/or how often I consume it. Some things felt better to lightly moderate, other things felt better to strictly moderate. If it causes less discomfort than the alternative but the end result is the same, why pick the harder route?

    I mean, yes, anyone can give up anything they choose and get used to that, but the question is: do they need to? Does it make their life easier? Is the change sustainable? Will being exposed to these foods feel harder or easier when they give them up (like in the case of social eating, for example)? All of these questions are worth asking because the best change is the easiest change you can make to achieve your goal and sustain it.

    Giving up bread and starchy carbs, in my case, would interfere with my goal of weight maintenance because they fill me up the most and I'm more likely to feel hungry without them.

    i'm not saying you can't lose weight on other diets, but bread is simply not compatible with the op's keto diet or even low carb diet. it contains too many carbs.

    i started out on a low calorie diet, low fat diet, and did lose weight, but my diet was lacking important nutrients, while consuming to much of the of the not so good nutrients like sodium and sugar, and i also felt like i was half starving myself all the time. once i changed to low carbohydrate and higher fat, i was able to eat a much higher quantity of food, enabling me to obtain high amounts of all the important nutrients, and never feel hungry. i completely lost every trace of my love handles, and have the body type of a fit 19 year old, and a bmi in the 19 range.

    to maintain lean weight in a healthy way, you need to emphasize food quality first of all.

    500 calories from bread and 500 calories from an avocado and a few eggs are entirely different. they have the same amount of energy, but the nutrients found in avocado and eggs far exceed the minuscule amount of nutrients that bread has. on keto, Meat Fish Dairy Eggs Vegetables Fruit (especially avocado, olives, berries) are acceptable.



    To have a healthy diet you need to have a good balance of nutrients. This can be achieved with or without keto. Your experience is important because it's yours. It simply means you do better eating a keto diet. Not everyone shares your experience. I was starving all the time on keto when I tried it.

    You can't really compare individual foods because most people's diets are made up of several foods. The comparison is also highly skewed to show the benefits of a certain eating philosophy. Why aren't you comparing 500 calories of bread (which does have a variety of nutrients) to 500 calories of oil or butter (which have a poor variety of nutrients but are compatible with keto)? Why aren't you comparing 500 calories of beans (which are highly nutritious but not compatible with keto) to 500 calories of bacon grease?

    i never said was on a keto diet. i recommended a low carb diet @100 grams of carbs/day, to the op.

    foods certainly can be compared, and bread ranks poorly in comparison, nutritionally, to most vegetables or other keto diet items.

    why should i compare bacon grease to bread? who's advocating a low carb diet that consists of a substantial amount of bacon grease?

    beans are more acceptable in the right amounts, than bread. much of the carbs are in the form of fiber and they contain higher protein.

    If you are going to compare food items, the at least compare like function with like function. Bread serves as a source of energy. Ergo it is only fair to compare it to a source of energy as used in keto. That would be fats. Comparing bread to spinach or cruciferous vegetables (not sources of energy) is disingenuous at best.

    I eat bread to fuel my day. I sure as hell wouldn't eat spinach to fuel my day...

    OP needs to figure out what kind of foods work for her goals and fit into the context of her life. If someone claims that something seems impossible is a clear indication for me that the chosen way of eating won't work for her.

    So defending keto the way you are (when you're admittedly not even adhering to it yourself) just seems weird to me.

    i'm not sure why you keep saying i'm promoting keto, unless you just can't read. low carb is not necessarily keto.

    i'm sorry if you're offended because bread is not rated as one of the more nutrient dense foods. but it's not. that's just a fact.

    fish, such as salmon, trout, sardines and mackerel, rich in protein, fatty acids and B vitamins. ...
    Eggs. ...
    Seeds. ...
    Nuts. ...
    Avocado. ...
    A high protein, low carb smoothie...

    ... are all are sources of energy, on a low carb diet, and are nutritionally superior to bread.

    and vegetables are excellent sources of the key nutrients that promote higher energy levels as well.
    edited March 2020
  • earlnabbyearlnabby Member Posts: 8,057 Member Member Posts: 8,057 Member
    ladyreva78 wrote: »
    sardelsa wrote: »
    probably should go low carb, @100 grams/day, but still lose the bread. it's of limited nutritional value. vegetables are quick and easy. just needs proper dressing and/or seasoning. as are nuts, legumes and dairy.

    Limited nutritional value? Mine gives me 8g of protein and 6g of fibre among other things. Not to mention I love it, it gives me energy, keeps me full and is a great vehicle for my peanut butter and jam.

    ok, now compare it to a half cup of spinach or cruciferous vegetable, not to mention what it does to blood sugar levels.

    bread is not compatible with a keto diet. one slice contains half a days carbo's allowed.

    Carbs = energy source
    Fat = energy source

    Personally, I can't have more than 60g fat/day due to malabsorption issues (not worth the GI-Distress that causes). I can push it to 70g on a good day. But not 2-3 days in a row.

    If I already have to restrict one energy source, why in the world would I severely restrict a second one just because someone thinks bread is some kind of evil? I want to lose weight, not end up malnourished.

    Keto is not a universal truth. It doesn't suit everyone. Just because it suits your life, doesn't mean that it will suit everyone else.

    I get to monitor 2 macros. Like you, I try to stay under 60 grams of fat because of malabsorption issues but I also am T2Dm so I need to stay under 150 g of total carbs. It would be nice if I didn't have to watch either but this is the way it is. I try to keep my snacks high protein, low fat so I don't have to make too many adjustments in my meals. I like my one-pot stews with rice or pasta added and I like sandwiches or wraps for lunch.

    It is working. I am 60 lb. less than I was (more to go) and my A1c is staying around 5.5-5.7 with no insulin or medication needed. As I lose more weight, there is every reason to expect that my number will go down a little further. The gastric issues are reduced to maybe once every couple of weeks.
  • xxxpopeyexxxxxxpopeyexxx Member Posts: 39 Member Member Posts: 39 Member
    Lillymoo01 wrote: »
    probably should go low carb, @100 grams/day, but still lose the bread. it's of limited nutritional value. vegetables are quick and easy. just needs proper dressing and/or seasoning. as are nuts, legumes and dairy.

    Or keep the bread if it is something you enjoy and something you know you will crave if you don't have it. The best way of losing weight is the one that you can adhere to long term, well into maintenance. It isn't just about losing weight but how to keep that weight off indefinitely once you achieve your goal. Don't make changes that you know you won't stick with. This just leads to yoyo dieting for most.

    by that way of thinking, why give up anything you crave if it's going to cause discomfort. and why even make changes to your diet or lifestyle at all.

    there was once a time when i thought there were many foods i couldn't live without, including ice cream, starchy vegetables, pasta, and bread too. that was until i found out i could live without them.

    of course it'll take time to overcome cravings, and instead follow your good sense, and choose nutritionally dense foods. it won't happen overnight. but replacing the junk with nutritionally dense lower carb food should still be a long term goal. and until that time happens portion control should be exercised.

    Exactly, why arbitrarily give up anything you crave if you feel better moderating it? That's how I lost the weight. I didn't give up anything, but I changed how much and/or how often I consume it. Some things felt better to lightly moderate, other things felt better to strictly moderate. If it causes less discomfort than the alternative but the end result is the same, why pick the harder route?

    I mean, yes, anyone can give up anything they choose and get used to that, but the question is: do they need to? Does it make their life easier? Is the change sustainable? Will being exposed to these foods feel harder or easier when they give them up (like in the case of social eating, for example)? All of these questions are worth asking because the best change is the easiest change you can make to achieve your goal and sustain it.

    Giving up bread and starchy carbs, in my case, would interfere with my goal of weight maintenance because they fill me up the most and I'm more likely to feel hungry without them.

    i'm not saying you can't lose weight on other diets, but bread is simply not compatible with the op's keto diet or even low carb diet. it contains too many carbs.

    i started out on a low calorie diet, low fat diet, and did lose weight, but my diet was lacking important nutrients, while consuming to much of the of the not so good nutrients like sodium and sugar, and i also felt like i was half starving myself all the time. once i changed to low carbohydrate and higher fat, i was able to eat a much higher quantity of food, enabling me to obtain high amounts of all the important nutrients, and never feel hungry. i completely lost every trace of my love handles, and have the body type of a fit 19 year old, and a bmi in the 19 range.

    to maintain lean weight in a healthy way, you need to emphasize food quality first of all.

    500 calories from bread and 500 calories from an avocado and a few eggs are entirely different. they have the same amount of energy, but the nutrients found in avocado and eggs far exceed the minuscule amount of nutrients that bread has. on keto, Meat Fish Dairy Eggs Vegetables Fruit (especially avocado, olives, berries) are acceptable.


    Bread does not contain 'too many carbs'. There are a lot of keto friendly breads, but even normal bread can be done in moderation and when you subtract dietary fiber.

    regular whole grain bread has about 25 carb's with 2 grams of fiber, per slice.

    try fitting that into a keto diet of 20 grams of carb's per day. lolol




    Congratulations on finding the highest bread carbs you could. On Walmart Grocery, I typed 'wheat bread', clicked the first one, and one slice is ~12 carbs. High, yes, but completely doable. If we're going to shoot for finding the highest possible carb count to form an argument, I counter your suggestion of nuts with cashews -9g carbs, no fiber; only the cashews are 160 calories vs the 60 from the bread (not to mention a feeling of satisfaction if the keto user wants to have bread in their diet). Not to mention that you totally glazed over the part where I specifically stated that there are keto friendly breads (some that are 0 net carbs).

    lolol

    i did say regular whole grain bread. even those tiny slices of ezekiel bread have 15-3 grams of carbs. you still ain't fitting that in a low carb keto diet, unless your portions are down right tiny.

    cashews are not low carb friendly, nor did i say they were. nuts, in general, are low carb friendly.
    edited March 2020
  • xxxpopeyexxxxxxpopeyexxx Member Posts: 39 Member Member Posts: 39 Member
    Lillymoo01 wrote: »
    probably should go low carb, @100 grams/day, but still lose the bread. it's of limited nutritional value. vegetables are quick and easy. just needs proper dressing and/or seasoning. as are nuts, legumes and dairy.

    Or keep the bread if it is something you enjoy and something you know you will crave if you don't have it. The best way of losing weight is the one that you can adhere to long term, well into maintenance. It isn't just about losing weight but how to keep that weight off indefinitely once you achieve your goal. Don't make changes that you know you won't stick with. This just leads to yoyo dieting for most.

    by that way of thinking, why give up anything you crave if it's going to cause discomfort. and why even make changes to your diet or lifestyle at all.

    there was once a time when i thought there were many foods i couldn't live without, including ice cream, starchy vegetables, pasta, and bread too. that was until i found out i could live without them.

    of course it'll take time to overcome cravings, and instead follow your good sense, and choose nutritionally dense foods. it won't happen overnight. but replacing the junk with nutritionally dense lower carb food should still be a long term goal. and until that time happens portion control should be exercised.

    Exactly, why arbitrarily give up anything you crave if you feel better moderating it? That's how I lost the weight. I didn't give up anything, but I changed how much and/or how often I consume it. Some things felt better to lightly moderate, other things felt better to strictly moderate. If it causes less discomfort than the alternative but the end result is the same, why pick the harder route?

    I mean, yes, anyone can give up anything they choose and get used to that, but the question is: do they need to? Does it make their life easier? Is the change sustainable? Will being exposed to these foods feel harder or easier when they give them up (like in the case of social eating, for example)? All of these questions are worth asking because the best change is the easiest change you can make to achieve your goal and sustain it.

    Giving up bread and starchy carbs, in my case, would interfere with my goal of weight maintenance because they fill me up the most and I'm more likely to feel hungry without them.

    i'm not saying you can't lose weight on other diets, but bread is simply not compatible with the op's keto diet or even low carb diet. it contains too many carbs.

    i started out on a low calorie diet, low fat diet, and did lose weight, but my diet was lacking important nutrients, while consuming to much of the of the not so good nutrients like sodium and sugar, and i also felt like i was half starving myself all the time. once i changed to low carbohydrate and higher fat, i was able to eat a much higher quantity of food, enabling me to obtain high amounts of all the important nutrients, and never feel hungry. i completely lost every trace of my love handles, and have the body type of a fit 19 year old, and a bmi in the 19 range.

    to maintain lean weight in a healthy way, you need to emphasize food quality first of all.

    500 calories from bread and 500 calories from an avocado and a few eggs are entirely different. they have the same amount of energy, but the nutrients found in avocado and eggs far exceed the minuscule amount of nutrients that bread has. on keto, Meat Fish Dairy Eggs Vegetables Fruit (especially avocado, olives, berries) are acceptable.


    Bread does not contain 'too many carbs'. There are a lot of keto friendly breads, but even normal bread can be done in moderation and when you subtract dietary fiber.

    regular whole grain bread has about 25 carb's with 2 grams of fiber, per slice.

    try fitting that into a keto diet of 20 grams of carb's per day. lolol




    Congratulations on finding the highest bread carbs you could. On Walmart Grocery, I typed 'wheat bread', clicked the first one, and one slice is ~12 carbs. High, yes, but completely doable. If we're going to shoot for finding the highest possible carb count to form an argument, I counter your suggestion of nuts with cashews -9g carbs, no fiber; only the cashews are 160 calories vs the 60 from the bread (not to mention a feeling of satisfaction if the keto user wants to have bread in their diet). Not to mention that you totally glazed over the part where I specifically stated that there are keto friendly breads (some that are 0 net carbs).

    lolol

    i did say regular whole grain bread. even those tiny slices of ezekiel bread have 15-3 grams of carbs. you still ain't fitting that in a low carb keto diet, unless your portions are down right tiny.

    cashews are not low carb friendly, nor did i say they were. nuts, in general, are low carb friendly.

    It is regular whole grain bread. It is nothing special. It's Great Value brand.

    it's a tiny 60 calorie slice. enjoy. don't think you can find any well known promoters of keto advocating it.
    edited March 2020
  • xxxpopeyexxxxxxpopeyexxx Member Posts: 39 Member Member Posts: 39 Member
    I honestly don't understand why the disregard for personal desires and enjoyment are so widespread in the weight loss community. Physical nutritional needs are put on a pedestal but mental, social, and emotional needs are regarded as sins as if you aren't dieting correctly unless you care about nothing but nutrition. We're humans, not meat machines, and we have needs that go beyond fuel and nutrients.

    When someone has a car and enjoys listening to music, do we shame them into selling their sound system to put more fuel into an already full tank? Obviously fuel is important, but once that's taken care of, what's wrong with listening to some music? Is adding more fuel to an overflowing tank morally superior?

    I was at a friend's birthday the other day. I enjoyed the social ritual of eating cake together. I needed to socially connect and share an eating ritual of celebration, I didn't need to eat half a cup of spinach. I did the right thing for my body and mind by choosing to eat cake.

    I tend to tank on a long run if I don't get some decent carb energy before the run. White bread, bananas, or honey oatmeal are usually my fuel of choice.

    For breakfast today I had a sandwich. It tasted good and was very filling. It had sourdough rye bread, one of my favorite types of bread. I was happy and satisfied for reasonable calories without feeling like I was making a sacrifice. The rest of my meals had various foods with various nutrients (lots of vegetables, as usual), and I ended the day with a snack pack of Oreos. Bread was the right thing to eat because it fulfilled the purpose of keeping me physically full and mentally satisfied. Oreos were the right thing to eat because I had calories for them and they made me happy. Being happy makes eating a nutritious and calorie appropriate diet sustainable and aids me in my goal of maintaining my weight.

    Different foods serve different main purposes. Nutrition is just one part of the puzzle.

    sounds like a good idea for a popular new diet. the 'if it feels good, do it diet.'

    cake, white bread, and oreo's are quick fixes, much like drugs is to an addiction, often feeding psychological needs. they can also be a sign that the body is not getting the proper nutritional needs.

    i play sports, and simply have a smoothie in the morning, and am good until the afternoon. don't want a bunch of bulky, partially digested food in my gut before i go play sports.

    the trick to a healthy diet is to learn to enjoy the healthy foods more than the junk foods.
    edited March 2020
  • xxxpopeyexxxxxxpopeyexxx Member Posts: 39 Member Member Posts: 39 Member
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    Lillymoo01 wrote: »
    probably should go low carb, @100 grams/day, but still lose the bread. it's of limited nutritional value. vegetables are quick and easy. just needs proper dressing and/or seasoning. as are nuts, legumes and dairy.

    Or keep the bread if it is something you enjoy and something you know you will crave if you don't have it. The best way of losing weight is the one that you can adhere to long term, well into maintenance. It isn't just about losing weight but how to keep that weight off indefinitely once you achieve your goal. Don't make changes that you know you won't stick with. This just leads to yoyo dieting for most.

    by that way of thinking, why give up anything you crave if it's going to cause discomfort. and why even make changes to your diet or lifestyle at all.

    there was once a time when i thought there were many foods i couldn't live without, including ice cream, starchy vegetables, pasta, and bread too. that was until i found out i could live without them.

    of course it'll take time to overcome cravings, and instead follow your good sense, and choose nutritionally dense foods. it won't happen overnight. but replacing the junk with nutritionally dense lower carb food should still be a long term goal. and until that time happens portion control should be exercised.

    Exactly, why arbitrarily give up anything you crave if you feel better moderating it? That's how I lost the weight. I didn't give up anything, but I changed how much and/or how often I consume it. Some things felt better to lightly moderate, other things felt better to strictly moderate. If it causes less discomfort than the alternative but the end result is the same, why pick the harder route?

    I mean, yes, anyone can give up anything they choose and get used to that, but the question is: do they need to? Does it make their life easier? Is the change sustainable? Will being exposed to these foods feel harder or easier when they give them up (like in the case of social eating, for example)? All of these questions are worth asking because the best change is the easiest change you can make to achieve your goal and sustain it.

    Giving up bread and starchy carbs, in my case, would interfere with my goal of weight maintenance because they fill me up the most and I'm more likely to feel hungry without them.

    i'm not saying you can't lose weight on other diets, but bread is simply not compatible with the op's keto diet or even low carb diet. it contains too many carbs.

    i started out on a low calorie diet, low fat diet, and did lose weight, but my diet was lacking important nutrients, while consuming to much of the of the not so good nutrients like sodium and sugar, and i also felt like i was half starving myself all the time. once i changed to low carbohydrate and higher fat, i was able to eat a much higher quantity of food, enabling me to obtain high amounts of all the important nutrients, and never feel hungry. i completely lost every trace of my love handles, and have the body type of a fit 19 year old, and a bmi in the 19 range.

    to maintain lean weight in a healthy way, you need to emphasize food quality first of all.

    500 calories from bread and 500 calories from an avocado and a few eggs are entirely different. they have the same amount of energy, but the nutrients found in avocado and eggs far exceed the minuscule amount of nutrients that bread has. on keto, Meat Fish Dairy Eggs Vegetables Fruit (especially avocado, olives, berries) are acceptable.



    To have a healthy diet you need to have a good balance of nutrients. This can be achieved with or without keto. Your experience is important because it's yours. It simply means you do better eating a keto diet. Not everyone shares your experience. I was starving all the time on keto when I tried it.

    You can't really compare individual foods because most people's diets are made up of several foods. The comparison is also highly skewed to show the benefits of a certain eating philosophy. Why aren't you comparing 500 calories of bread (which does have a variety of nutrients) to 500 calories of oil or butter (which have a poor variety of nutrients but are compatible with keto)? Why aren't you comparing 500 calories of beans (which are highly nutritious but not compatible with keto) to 500 calories of bacon grease?

    i never said was on a keto diet. i recommended a low carb diet @100 grams of carbs/day, to the op.

    foods certainly can be compared, and bread ranks poorly in comparison, nutritionally, to most vegetables or other keto diet items.

    This isn't true. Obviously anyone should eat plenty of veg, but I don't think people choose between bread and vegetables. Bread, on keto, would be replaced with higher fat items, some of which are nutritionally dense (avocado, nuts and seeds) but others of which may or may not be filling, depending on the person, but the added fat doesn't add much in the way of nutrients. Examples are cheese, creamy sauces, high fat cuts of meats, so on. Sure, those have some nutrients (as does bread) but you could get the same nutrients in fewer cals with somewhat lower fat choices.

    The reason someone might like to include bread or rice or pasta in their diet is not because they are replacing veg, again, but because they find a meal made up of veg, protein, and a starch one of the most delicious and sating ways to eat, and many of the most healthy diets in the world include plenty of starches, as well as veg and fruit (the latter of which also is pretty difficult to fit in on keto).

    I'm not down on keto and if OP seemed like she really wanted to do it and thought it would work for her, I'd encourage her. I also personally don't care about bread one bit (I do like fruit and other starches). But it's simply not true that keto or other lower carb diets are inherently healthier or better for weight loss than other ways of eating (that may well include bread as well as veg).

    I tried keto as an experiment and used all my carbs for veg plus half an avocado sometimes, a serving of nuts/seeds and occasional full fat plain greek yogurt, and found I was usually having to eat fewer veg than I normally do, fewer nuts and seeds than I normally do (I prefer a couple of servings a day), obviously less fruit, as my only fruit was the half avocado, and I was cutting out other things I think are healthy and satisfying (like beans and lentils, potatoes and sweet potatoes, occasional whole grains) as well as some foods I just like. I also was eating more meat than I normally prefer. So while I absolutely think it can be healthy (or that eating low carb can be healthy), I didn't find that my diet was healthier eating that way and I also did not find it more satisfying.

    i never said a low carb diet is the best diet. what the best diet is could be debated until the end of time. i have just related my own experience, that i can eat more, am never hungry, and have gotten downright lean on a low carb diet. not to mention i'm easily getting all my nutritional needs.

    however, if the op is considering keto, bread's definitely off limits. and is not even a good choice for a low carb diet, unless eaten only occasionally.

    i'm am a vegetarian but a 3.5 oz serving of beef:

    Calories: 205
    Protein: About 27 grams
    Riboflavin: 15% of the Daily Value (DV)
    Niacin: 24% of the DV
    Vitamin B6: 19% of the DV
    Vitamin B12: 158% of the DV
    Niacin: 24% of the DV
    Phosphorus: 19% of the DV
    Zinc: 68% of the DV
    Selenium: 36% of the DV

    now compare that to a serving of bread.
    edited March 2020
  • xxxpopeyexxxxxxpopeyexxx Member Posts: 39 Member Member Posts: 39 Member
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    Lillymoo01 wrote: »
    probably should go low carb, @100 grams/day, but still lose the bread. it's of limited nutritional value. vegetables are quick and easy. just needs proper dressing and/or seasoning. as are nuts, legumes and dairy.

    Or keep the bread if it is something you enjoy and something you know you will crave if you don't have it. The best way of losing weight is the one that you can adhere to long term, well into maintenance. It isn't just about losing weight but how to keep that weight off indefinitely once you achieve your goal. Don't make changes that you know you won't stick with. This just leads to yoyo dieting for most.

    by that way of thinking, why give up anything you crave if it's going to cause discomfort. and why even make changes to your diet or lifestyle at all.

    there was once a time when i thought there were many foods i couldn't live without, including ice cream, starchy vegetables, pasta, and bread too. that was until i found out i could live without them.

    of course it'll take time to overcome cravings, and instead follow your good sense, and choose nutritionally dense foods. it won't happen overnight. but replacing the junk with nutritionally dense lower carb food should still be a long term goal. and until that time happens portion control should be exercised.

    Exactly, why arbitrarily give up anything you crave if you feel better moderating it? That's how I lost the weight. I didn't give up anything, but I changed how much and/or how often I consume it. Some things felt better to lightly moderate, other things felt better to strictly moderate. If it causes less discomfort than the alternative but the end result is the same, why pick the harder route?

    I mean, yes, anyone can give up anything they choose and get used to that, but the question is: do they need to? Does it make their life easier? Is the change sustainable? Will being exposed to these foods feel harder or easier when they give them up (like in the case of social eating, for example)? All of these questions are worth asking because the best change is the easiest change you can make to achieve your goal and sustain it.

    Giving up bread and starchy carbs, in my case, would interfere with my goal of weight maintenance because they fill me up the most and I'm more likely to feel hungry without them.

    i'm not saying you can't lose weight on other diets, but bread is simply not compatible with the op's keto diet or even low carb diet. it contains too many carbs.

    i started out on a low calorie diet, low fat diet, and did lose weight, but my diet was lacking important nutrients, while consuming to much of the of the not so good nutrients like sodium and sugar, and i also felt like i was half starving myself all the time. once i changed to low carbohydrate and higher fat, i was able to eat a much higher quantity of food, enabling me to obtain high amounts of all the important nutrients, and never feel hungry. i completely lost every trace of my love handles, and have the body type of a fit 19 year old, and a bmi in the 19 range.

    to maintain lean weight in a healthy way, you need to emphasize food quality first of all.

    500 calories from bread and 500 calories from an avocado and a few eggs are entirely different. they have the same amount of energy, but the nutrients found in avocado and eggs far exceed the minuscule amount of nutrients that bread has. on keto, Meat Fish Dairy Eggs Vegetables Fruit (especially avocado, olives, berries) are acceptable.



    To have a healthy diet you need to have a good balance of nutrients. This can be achieved with or without keto. Your experience is important because it's yours. It simply means you do better eating a keto diet. Not everyone shares your experience. I was starving all the time on keto when I tried it.

    You can't really compare individual foods because most people's diets are made up of several foods. The comparison is also highly skewed to show the benefits of a certain eating philosophy. Why aren't you comparing 500 calories of bread (which does have a variety of nutrients) to 500 calories of oil or butter (which have a poor variety of nutrients but are compatible with keto)? Why aren't you comparing 500 calories of beans (which are highly nutritious but not compatible with keto) to 500 calories of bacon grease?

    i never said was on a keto diet. i recommended a low carb diet @100 grams of carbs/day, to the op.

    foods certainly can be compared, and bread ranks poorly in comparison, nutritionally, to most vegetables or other keto diet items.

    This isn't true. Obviously anyone should eat plenty of veg, but I don't think people choose between bread and vegetables. Bread, on keto, would be replaced with higher fat items, some of which are nutritionally dense (avocado, nuts and seeds) but others of which may or may not be filling, depending on the person, but the added fat doesn't add much in the way of nutrients. Examples are cheese, creamy sauces, high fat cuts of meats, so on. Sure, those have some nutrients (as does bread) but you could get the same nutrients in fewer cals with somewhat lower fat choices.

    The reason someone might like to include bread or rice or pasta in their diet is not because they are replacing veg, again, but because they find a meal made up of veg, protein, and a starch one of the most delicious and sating ways to eat, and many of the most healthy diets in the world include plenty of starches, as well as veg and fruit (the latter of which also is pretty difficult to fit in on keto).

    I'm not down on keto and if OP seemed like she really wanted to do it and thought it would work for her, I'd encourage her. I also personally don't care about bread one bit (I do like fruit and other starches). But it's simply not true that keto or other lower carb diets are inherently healthier or better for weight loss than other ways of eating (that may well include bread as well as veg).

    I tried keto as an experiment and used all my carbs for veg plus half an avocado sometimes, a serving of nuts/seeds and occasional full fat plain greek yogurt, and found I was usually having to eat fewer veg than I normally do, fewer nuts and seeds than I normally do (I prefer a couple of servings a day), obviously less fruit, as my only fruit was the half avocado, and I was cutting out other things I think are healthy and satisfying (like beans and lentils, potatoes and sweet potatoes, occasional whole grains) as well as some foods I just like. I also was eating more meat than I normally prefer. So while I absolutely think it can be healthy (or that eating low carb can be healthy), I didn't find that my diet was healthier eating that way and I also did not find it more satisfying.

    i never said a low carb diet is the best diet. what the best diet is could be debated until the end of time. i have just related my own experience, that i can eat more, am never hungry, and have gotten downright lean on a low carb diet. not to mention i'm easily getting all my nutritional needs.

    however, if the op is considering keto, bread's definitely off limits. and is not even a good choice for a low carb diet, unless eaten only occasionally.

    i'm am a vegetarian but a 3.5 oz serving of beef:

    Calories: 205
    Protein: About 27 grams
    Riboflavin: 15% of the Daily Value (DV)
    Niacin: 24% of the DV
    Vitamin B6: 19% of the DV
    Vitamin B12: 158% of the DV
    Niacin: 24% of the DV
    Phosphorus: 19% of the DV
    Zinc: 68% of the DV
    Selenium: 36% of the DV

    now compare that to a serving of bread.

    She is considering keto because she thinks it's the best choice but feels she won't be able to do it. She would have gotten very different answers had she not expressed distress over having to do keto.

    Comparing single food nutrients means little on its own. You need to consider an entire day's worth of nutrients.

    Here is an example of a day I had that included bread:
    dnpkd656chg9.png
    bce1bi7wo5zk.png

    if you are going to compare 2 foods nutritional values, they have be done individually. comparing an entire day's meals it not a fair comparison.

    if the op has done research and is interested in keto, but has reservations about it, then the next logical step would be for op to try some variation of it, like liberal or moderate low carb, where she could have some bread. there are many foods i once thought i loved, but now don't miss a bit. cravings are only psychological.

    a lot carbs become fat, the unhealthy type, triglycerides.

    Not only can these diets improve your cholesterol, blood pressure and blood sugar, but they also reduce your appetite, boost weight loss and lower your triglycerides.

    https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/10-benefits-of-low-carb-ketogenic-diets#section6

    edited March 2020
  • lemurcat2lemurcat2 Member Posts: 7,412 Member Member Posts: 7,412 Member
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    Lillymoo01 wrote: »
    probably should go low carb, @100 grams/day, but still lose the bread. it's of limited nutritional value. vegetables are quick and easy. just needs proper dressing and/or seasoning. as are nuts, legumes and dairy.

    Or keep the bread if it is something you enjoy and something you know you will crave if you don't have it. The best way of losing weight is the one that you can adhere to long term, well into maintenance. It isn't just about losing weight but how to keep that weight off indefinitely once you achieve your goal. Don't make changes that you know you won't stick with. This just leads to yoyo dieting for most.

    by that way of thinking, why give up anything you crave if it's going to cause discomfort. and why even make changes to your diet or lifestyle at all.

    there was once a time when i thought there were many foods i couldn't live without, including ice cream, starchy vegetables, pasta, and bread too. that was until i found out i could live without them.

    of course it'll take time to overcome cravings, and instead follow your good sense, and choose nutritionally dense foods. it won't happen overnight. but replacing the junk with nutritionally dense lower carb food should still be a long term goal. and until that time happens portion control should be exercised.

    Exactly, why arbitrarily give up anything you crave if you feel better moderating it? That's how I lost the weight. I didn't give up anything, but I changed how much and/or how often I consume it. Some things felt better to lightly moderate, other things felt better to strictly moderate. If it causes less discomfort than the alternative but the end result is the same, why pick the harder route?

    I mean, yes, anyone can give up anything they choose and get used to that, but the question is: do they need to? Does it make their life easier? Is the change sustainable? Will being exposed to these foods feel harder or easier when they give them up (like in the case of social eating, for example)? All of these questions are worth asking because the best change is the easiest change you can make to achieve your goal and sustain it.

    Giving up bread and starchy carbs, in my case, would interfere with my goal of weight maintenance because they fill me up the most and I'm more likely to feel hungry without them.

    i'm not saying you can't lose weight on other diets, but bread is simply not compatible with the op's keto diet or even low carb diet. it contains too many carbs.

    i started out on a low calorie diet, low fat diet, and did lose weight, but my diet was lacking important nutrients, while consuming to much of the of the not so good nutrients like sodium and sugar, and i also felt like i was half starving myself all the time. once i changed to low carbohydrate and higher fat, i was able to eat a much higher quantity of food, enabling me to obtain high amounts of all the important nutrients, and never feel hungry. i completely lost every trace of my love handles, and have the body type of a fit 19 year old, and a bmi in the 19 range.

    to maintain lean weight in a healthy way, you need to emphasize food quality first of all.

    500 calories from bread and 500 calories from an avocado and a few eggs are entirely different. they have the same amount of energy, but the nutrients found in avocado and eggs far exceed the minuscule amount of nutrients that bread has. on keto, Meat Fish Dairy Eggs Vegetables Fruit (especially avocado, olives, berries) are acceptable.



    To have a healthy diet you need to have a good balance of nutrients. This can be achieved with or without keto. Your experience is important because it's yours. It simply means you do better eating a keto diet. Not everyone shares your experience. I was starving all the time on keto when I tried it.

    You can't really compare individual foods because most people's diets are made up of several foods. The comparison is also highly skewed to show the benefits of a certain eating philosophy. Why aren't you comparing 500 calories of bread (which does have a variety of nutrients) to 500 calories of oil or butter (which have a poor variety of nutrients but are compatible with keto)? Why aren't you comparing 500 calories of beans (which are highly nutritious but not compatible with keto) to 500 calories of bacon grease?

    i never said was on a keto diet. i recommended a low carb diet @100 grams of carbs/day, to the op.

    foods certainly can be compared, and bread ranks poorly in comparison, nutritionally, to most vegetables or other keto diet items.

    This isn't true. Obviously anyone should eat plenty of veg, but I don't think people choose between bread and vegetables. Bread, on keto, would be replaced with higher fat items, some of which are nutritionally dense (avocado, nuts and seeds) but others of which may or may not be filling, depending on the person, but the added fat doesn't add much in the way of nutrients. Examples are cheese, creamy sauces, high fat cuts of meats, so on. Sure, those have some nutrients (as does bread) but you could get the same nutrients in fewer cals with somewhat lower fat choices.

    The reason someone might like to include bread or rice or pasta in their diet is not because they are replacing veg, again, but because they find a meal made up of veg, protein, and a starch one of the most delicious and sating ways to eat, and many of the most healthy diets in the world include plenty of starches, as well as veg and fruit (the latter of which also is pretty difficult to fit in on keto).

    I'm not down on keto and if OP seemed like she really wanted to do it and thought it would work for her, I'd encourage her. I also personally don't care about bread one bit (I do like fruit and other starches). But it's simply not true that keto or other lower carb diets are inherently healthier or better for weight loss than other ways of eating (that may well include bread as well as veg).

    I tried keto as an experiment and used all my carbs for veg plus half an avocado sometimes, a serving of nuts/seeds and occasional full fat plain greek yogurt, and found I was usually having to eat fewer veg than I normally do, fewer nuts and seeds than I normally do (I prefer a couple of servings a day), obviously less fruit, as my only fruit was the half avocado, and I was cutting out other things I think are healthy and satisfying (like beans and lentils, potatoes and sweet potatoes, occasional whole grains) as well as some foods I just like. I also was eating more meat than I normally prefer. So while I absolutely think it can be healthy (or that eating low carb can be healthy), I didn't find that my diet was healthier eating that way and I also did not find it more satisfying.

    i never said a low carb diet is the best diet. what the best diet is could be debated until the end of time. i have just related my own experience, that i can eat more, am never hungry, and have gotten downright lean on a low carb diet. not to mention i'm easily getting all my nutritional needs.

    This is also true for many not on low carb diets. OP may have very sound reasons for wanting to try keto, or she may have just heard it's better for weight loss -- that's why people asked her.
    however, if the op is considering keto, bread's definitely off limits. and is not even a good choice for a low carb diet, unless eaten only occasionally.

    I didn't eat bread when I was doing keto, since I used up all my carbs on foods I personally prioritize more. However, worth noting that there are low carb breads (this new TJ bread is supposed to be tasty), and plenty of people doing keto around here seem to include low carb bread or wraps.

    But in any case absolutely no one has told OP she can do keto without eliminating or restricting bread. They've told her that she can lose weight and eat healthfully while eating bread if she finds the idea of eliminating it unpleasant.

    Not sure what your point re the beef was supposed to be, but as I noted the bread for someone doing keto (as well as the fruit, the beans, the sweet potato, etc.) would not be substituted by beef (assuming the person already ate beef), but by fat -- higher fat cuts of beef (which have no nutritional advantages and might have some negatives if eaten more heavily), cheese, cream sauces, added oils and butter, etc. Not that those things can't be fine in moderation in a healthful diet, but the idea that having more of them and cutting out bread and other starches is inherently healthier is not accurate.

    (I did eat more meat when doing keto, as noted, but the meat replaced vegetarian sources of protein like beans and lentils and plain greek yogurt, as well as the additional smaller sources of some protein I would eat like the additional serving of nuts and seeds, and occasional whole grains, which add up.)
    edited March 2020
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