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Why do people keep defending sugar?

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  • kimny72kimny72 Member Posts: 15,445 Member Member Posts: 15,445 Member
    psychod787 wrote: »
    psychod787 wrote: »
    I don't know... because it's a socially accepted drug? 🤔

    <---- is currently mainlining his apple right now..... ahhh...., sweet, pun intended, bliss!
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    Maybe they never had half their family die from it


    Is this a serious comment?? :*

    People are not dying from sugar

    well, I guess a type 1 diabetic could go into diabetic coma and die if they ate massive amount and did not take their insulin. I knew somebody once who almost did that - was in ICU with BSL of 48 - but did recover.

    But, most people can eat sugar in sensible amounts. Even diabetics can eat it in small amounts.

    The issue is not sugar per se but over consumption leadng to obesity related diseases or, in case of diabetics, to diabetic complications.

    Context. Dosage.

    You conflated an instantaneous consequence with an average over time consequence, in order to call someone else dumb. People aren't talking about eating a lot of sugar once, they're talking about eating a lot of it over time, which would why diabetes is called a CHRONIC illness.

    Um, no. The debate in this thread seems definitely to be between those who think sugar (or added sugar) in any amount is terrible and those of us saying it's fine in moderate amounts in the context of a healthful overall diet.
    Lol no one eats sugar in "sensible" amounts in the US.

    No one? I think many of us here do.

    It usually comes in a small package, with loads of fat, that is easy to over eat on. I have seen the research, a high sugar diet can actually lower overall fasting blood sugars in HEALTHY adults. It is because they lose weight and insulin sensitivity goes up usually when people lower adiposity.

    @Pogostickers , I am with you ma'am, personally added sugars are just not worth the added calories or lack of satiety for me. I prefer my sugars to come from fruits and veggies. I noticed when I gave up added sugar, fruit became super sweet. Taste can change.

    I handle this a bit differently. I eat food. I don't eat "sugar" or "fat" or whatever. I don't get my sugar from sources because getting my sugar is not important, I don't even look at it, I just eat food and sometimes it has sugar and sometimes it doesn't, sometimes the sugar is of the added sort, sometimes it's not. I focus on 2 things: eating foods I enjoy, and overall meeting my nutrient needs within calories.

    What I do eat is more important to me than what I don't eat, and sometimes something that has added sugar is worth it and sometimes it isn't, just like any other food that has any other ingredient. I make my decisions on a food to food basis, I don't need to waste my effort on setting up rules for trivial things that don't affect my health or weight management. For example, yesterday I had ice cream planned but I was a bit hungrier than usual so I decided to eat a hearty snack instead because it felt more worth it. Sometimes ice cream is exactly what I need and it's worth it.

    I agree with your statement, but we have to look at added sugar intake in the context of overall diet. When Cuba went into a massive recession in the past, added sugar intake went up and fat intake went down. Overall caloric intake went down. They could not afford gas, so many people started walking everywhere. Many folks lost weight. So, added sugar in the context of a deficit or energy equilibrium has no effect on weight. When people on MFP, such as yourself, count calories and have added sugar with energy equilibrium, it has little effect. Unfortunately, most western/ affluent individuals do not track their intake. We have seen that added sugar does not have the same effect on satiety as food in its whole form. This is probably why we see a correlation between Sugary Beverage consumption and weight gain, no correlation between weight gain and fresh fruit consumption. There is actually a net slimming effect in replacing sugary beverages with fresh fruit for the same "sugar" intake.

    While I agree with all of this, I think the last part might apply specifically to sweetened drinks. Most of the added sugar I eat comes along with fat and even some protein, and I don't find much difference in satiety between high sugar days and low sugar days. My added sugar often comes in icecream, brownies, sauces or condiments added to whole foods meals, protein bars.

    Having said that, if I didn't log food I'd eat too much of those foods, but I'd also eat too much cheese and nuts and not be satiated by those either. I also don't find fruit even remotely filling by itself.

    Sugary drinks are I think typically problematic to anyone not successfully moderating and not tracking their intake. Cutting way down on the sweet calories in my drinks was instrumental in getting my calories in line :smiley: I still enjoy a glass of juice or a sweet coffee drink occasionally but it's rare.
    edited July 20
  • lemurcat2lemurcat2 Member Posts: 5,662 Member Member Posts: 5,662 Member
    psychod787 wrote: »
    I don't know... because it's a socially accepted drug? 🤔

    <---- is currently mainlining his apple right now..... ahhh...., sweet, pun intended, bliss!
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    Maybe they never had half their family die from it


    Is this a serious comment?? :*

    People are not dying from sugar

    well, I guess a type 1 diabetic could go into diabetic coma and die if they ate massive amount and did not take their insulin. I knew somebody once who almost did that - was in ICU with BSL of 48 - but did recover.

    But, most people can eat sugar in sensible amounts. Even diabetics can eat it in small amounts.

    The issue is not sugar per se but over consumption leadng to obesity related diseases or, in case of diabetics, to diabetic complications.

    Context. Dosage.

    You conflated an instantaneous consequence with an average over time consequence, in order to call someone else dumb. People aren't talking about eating a lot of sugar once, they're talking about eating a lot of it over time, which would why diabetes is called a CHRONIC illness.

    Um, no. The debate in this thread seems definitely to be between those who think sugar (or added sugar) in any amount is terrible and those of us saying it's fine in moderate amounts in the context of a healthful overall diet.
    Lol no one eats sugar in "sensible" amounts in the US.

    No one? I think many of us here do.

    It usually comes in a small package, with loads of fat, that is easy to over eat on. I have seen the research, a high sugar diet can actually lower overall fasting blood sugars in HEALTHY adults. It is because they lose weight and insulin sensitivity goes up usually when people lower adiposity.

    Yep, we agree. But many people are able to include small amounts of added sugar in a healthy overall diet.
  • amusedmonkeyamusedmonkey Member Posts: 10,199 Member Member Posts: 10,199 Member
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    psychod787 wrote: »
    I don't know... because it's a socially accepted drug? 🤔

    <---- is currently mainlining his apple right now..... ahhh...., sweet, pun intended, bliss!
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    Maybe they never had half their family die from it


    Is this a serious comment?? :*

    People are not dying from sugar

    well, I guess a type 1 diabetic could go into diabetic coma and die if they ate massive amount and did not take their insulin. I knew somebody once who almost did that - was in ICU with BSL of 48 - but did recover.

    But, most people can eat sugar in sensible amounts. Even diabetics can eat it in small amounts.

    The issue is not sugar per se but over consumption leadng to obesity related diseases or, in case of diabetics, to diabetic complications.

    Context. Dosage.

    You conflated an instantaneous consequence with an average over time consequence, in order to call someone else dumb. People aren't talking about eating a lot of sugar once, they're talking about eating a lot of it over time, which would why diabetes is called a CHRONIC illness.

    Um, no. The debate in this thread seems definitely to be between those who think sugar (or added sugar) in any amount is terrible and those of us saying it's fine in moderate amounts in the context of a healthful overall diet.
    Lol no one eats sugar in "sensible" amounts in the US.

    No one? I think many of us here do.

    It usually comes in a small package, with loads of fat, that is easy to over eat on. I have seen the research, a high sugar diet can actually lower overall fasting blood sugars in HEALTHY adults. It is because they lose weight and insulin sensitivity goes up usually when people lower adiposity.

    @Pogostickers , I am with you ma'am, personally added sugars are just not worth the added calories or lack of satiety for me. I prefer my sugars to come from fruits and veggies. I noticed when I gave up added sugar, fruit became super sweet. Taste can change.

    I always find this odd, although enough people say it that it must be a thing.

    I did not find fruit to taste different based on me eating more or less sugar.

    I got fat eating little added sugar, ate more ice cream than before when losing, and have currently lost my taste for dessert so don't eat ice cream. Fruit has tasted the same (quite sweet), throughout.

    Yeah I do find it odd too. I'm someone who can't have a savory food that tastes sweet. I can't eat sweet potatoes or certain squashes because they taste too sweet to be a savory food. I can't eat BBQ sauce because it tastes too sweet. Pretty much the only sweet things I can handle are cooked carrots and onions because I'm used to them, and yes, they still taste sweet although I eat things with added sugar. Cherry tomatoes are my least favorite type of tomatoes because they're too sweet.
    edited July 20
  • Theoldguy1Theoldguy1 Member Posts: 1,229 Member Member Posts: 1,229 Member
    psychod787 wrote: »
    psychod787 wrote: »
    I don't know... because it's a socially accepted drug? 🤔

    <---- is currently mainlining his apple right now..... ahhh...., sweet, pun intended, bliss!
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    Maybe they never had half their family die from it


    Is this a serious comment?? :*

    People are not dying from sugar

    well, I guess a type 1 diabetic could go into diabetic coma and die if they ate massive amount and did not take their insulin. I knew somebody once who almost did that - was in ICU with BSL of 48 - but did recover.

    But, most people can eat sugar in sensible amounts. Even diabetics can eat it in small amounts.

    The issue is not sugar per se but over consumption leadng to obesity related diseases or, in case of diabetics, to diabetic complications.

    Context. Dosage.

    You conflated an instantaneous consequence with an average over time consequence, in order to call someone else dumb. People aren't talking about eating a lot of sugar once, they're talking about eating a lot of it over time, which would why diabetes is called a CHRONIC illness.

    Um, no. The debate in this thread seems definitely to be between those who think sugar (or added sugar) in any amount is terrible and those of us saying it's fine in moderate amounts in the context of a healthful overall diet.
    Lol no one eats sugar in "sensible" amounts in the US.

    No one? I think many of us here do.

    It usually comes in a small package, with loads of fat, that is easy to over eat on. I have seen the research, a high sugar diet can actually lower overall fasting blood sugars in HEALTHY adults. It is because they lose weight and insulin sensitivity goes up usually when people lower adiposity.

    @Pogostickers , I am with you ma'am, personally added sugars are just not worth the added calories or lack of satiety for me. I prefer my sugars to come from fruits and veggies. I noticed when I gave up added sugar, fruit became super sweet. Taste can change.

    I handle this a bit differently. I eat food. I don't eat "sugar" or "fat" or whatever. I don't get my sugar from sources because getting my sugar is not important, I don't even look at it, I just eat food and sometimes it has sugar and sometimes it doesn't, sometimes the sugar is of the added sort, sometimes it's not. I focus on 2 things: eating foods I enjoy, and overall meeting my nutrient needs within calories.

    What I do eat is more important to me than what I don't eat, and sometimes something that has added sugar is worth it and sometimes it isn't, just like any other food that has any other ingredient. I make my decisions on a food to food basis, I don't need to waste my effort on setting up rules for trivial things that don't affect my health or weight management. For example, yesterday I had ice cream planned but I was a bit hungrier than usual so I decided to eat a hearty snack instead because it felt more worth it. Sometimes ice cream is exactly what I need and it's worth it.

    I agree with your statement, but we have to look at added sugar intake in the context of overall diet. When Cuba went into a massive recession in the past, added sugar intake went up and fat intake went down. Overall caloric intake went down. They could not afford gas, so many people started walking everywhere. Many folks lost weight. So, added sugar in the context of a deficit or energy equilibrium has no effect on weight. When people on MFP, such as yourself, count calories and have added sugar with energy equilibrium, it has little effect. Unfortunately, most western/ affluent individuals do not track their intake. We have seen that added sugar does not have the same effect on satiety as food in its whole form. This is probably why we see a correlation between Sugary Beverage consumption and weight gain, no correlation between weight gain and fresh fruit consumption. There is actually a net slimming effect in replacing sugary beverages with fresh fruit for the same "sugar" intake.

    Yep see if you can eat 7 apples (about 100 calories each) vs downing 700 calories of pop.
  • janereiffjanereiff Member Posts: 2 Member Member Posts: 2 Member
    When adding foods to the food diary, it records all sugars (natural and added) as sugar. I've been told that I should be counting/restricting the grams of added sugar and not be concerned with the naturally occurring sugars. Is this accurate advice?
  • sijomialsijomial Member Posts: 16,952 Member Member Posts: 16,952 Member
    janereiff wrote: »
    When adding foods to the food diary, it records all sugars (natural and added) as sugar. I've been told that I should be counting/restricting the grams of added sugar and not be concerned with the naturally occurring sugars. Is this accurate advice?

    @janereiff

    "When adding foods to the food diary, it records all sugars (natural and added) as sugar."
    As your body has no way of knowing the source of your sugar, whether a naturally occurring part of a food or drink item or refined and added to a food item that's entirely reasonable.

    "I've been told that I should be counting/restricting the grams of added sugar and not be concerned with the naturally occurring sugars. Is this accurate advice?"
    Not really - it's a dumbed down overly simple message for the general public for whom making better food choices (including but not limited to sugar in all its forms) could well be beneficial for many.
    You could overeat on a diet with zero added sugar, you could eat what is personally an inappropriate amount of intrinsic/natural sugar for your particular and personal needs within your calorie needs but crowding out other valuable nutrition.


    An analogy would be road safety campaigns using a simple and extremely dumbed down message of "Speed Kills".
    It's completely inaccurate (sudden deceleration and impacts can kill but not speed alone) but for people with little knowledge of how to be a safe driver/rider it may have a benefit of people having fewer accidents and at lower speeds.
    Just like "Be A Better Driver" as a slogan would just wash over many people and have no impact on behaviours so would "Eat A Better Overall Diet".
    edited July 23
  • J72FITJ72FIT Member Posts: 5,544 Member Member Posts: 5,544 Member
    I don't track sugar, I track fiber and it seems to take care of itself...
  • debrakgooginsdebrakgoogins Member, Premium Posts: 2,024 Member Member, Premium Posts: 2,024 Member
    Slacker16 wrote: »
    (...) I gained weight eating savory and fatty foods.
    Let's start a gang :)

    I've thought about a motorcycle gang but every name I come up with just sounds wrong. I can't imagine a leather jacket with a big skull and the words "Sausage Hogs" or "Pepperoni Riders".
  • mtaratootmtaratoot Member Posts: 3,595 Member Member Posts: 3,595 Member
    Slacker16 wrote: »
    (...) I gained weight eating savory and fatty foods.
    Let's start a gang :)

    I've thought about a motorcycle gang but every name I come up with just sounds wrong. I can't imagine a leather jacket with a big skull and the words "Sausage Hogs" or "Pepperoni Riders".

    Aprons, not leather jackets.

    I propose the name Lasagna Hogs with the motto: Go Hang a Salami. So the mantra would be:

    "Go hang a salami; I'm a lasagna hog."

    Read that from back to front now. :wink:
    Or read THIS one backwards:
    goh angasal a mi imalas a gnah og
    edited July 23
  • psychod787psychod787 Member, Premium Posts: 3,625 Member Member, Premium Posts: 3,625 Member
    mtaratoot wrote: »
    Slacker16 wrote: »
    (...) I gained weight eating savory and fatty foods.
    Let's start a gang :)

    I've thought about a motorcycle gang but every name I come up with just sounds wrong. I can't imagine a leather jacket with a big skull and the words "Sausage Hogs" or "Pepperoni Riders".

    Aprons, not leather jackets.

    I propose the name Lasagna Hogs with the motto: Go Hang a Salami. So the mantra would be:

    "Go hang a salami; I'm a lasagna hog."

    Read that from back to front now. :wink:

    The Pot Pie Putters?
  • gadorlogorgadorlogor Member Posts: 7 Member Member Posts: 7 Member
    To much added sugar will "mess" up your heart and lead to insulin resistance and weight gain.
    The reason why it leads to weight gain is because your body is essentially something with zero nutritional value but an extremely high caloric count. So you wind up wasting your caloric limit on useless food, thus gaining weight while at the same time being starved nutritionally.
    Non-added sugar however is different, because it one contains lots of nutrients and two has high amounts of fiber which limits the glycemic index of the food. Increasing the time over which glucose thus insulin is released. Which is why complex carbohydrates are better, than simple carbohydrates like sugar. Because non-added sugars take longer to hit your blood it allows them to be actually "used", instead of stored as fat immediately like added sugar is. (Both should be limited though, just added sugars more so)
    Sugar,however ,hits your blood stream immediately and releases all that glucose at once, instead of over time, putting you on the path to diabetes through increased insulin resistance.
    There is no reason to eat an excess of added sugar, it only hurts and is bad for energy (see sugar crashes) not good.
    There is no defense for it.
    edited July 24
  • J72FITJ72FIT Member Posts: 5,544 Member Member Posts: 5,544 Member
    gadorlogor wrote: »
    To much added sugar will "mess" up your heart and lead to insulin resistance and weight gain.
    The reason why it leads to weight gain is because your body is essentially something with zero nutritional value but an extremely high caloric count. So you wind up wasting your caloric limit on useless food, thus gaining weight while at the same time being starved nutritionally.
    Non-added sugar however is different, because it one contains lots of nutrients and two has high amounts of fiber which limits the glycemic index of the food. Increasing the time over which glucose thus insulin is released. Which is why complex carbohydrates are better, than simple carbohydrates like sugar. Because non-added sugars take longer to hit your blood it allows them to be actually "used", instead of stored as fat immediately like added sugar is. (Both should be limited though, just added sugars more so)
    Sugar,however ,hits your blood stream immediately and releases all that glucose at once, instead of over time, putting you on the path to diabetes through increased insulin resistance.
    There is no reason to eat an excess of added sugar, it only hurts and is bad for energy (see sugar crashes) not good.
    There is no defense for it.


    I must be a special snowflake...
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