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Face mask or no face mask?
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slimgirljo15 wrote: »Your original post said Australia , yet you were talking about Victorian restrictions obviously that was confusing to me.
Victoria is part of Australia, is it not?Nevermind. If you're spoiling for an argument, you won't get one here.
"Spoiling for an argument"? I was just stating my opinion. Other people are the ones who started arguing with me by accusing me of "spreading lies about their country." And then "disagreeing" with my posts that were just posting news articles supporting what I was saying...like what exactly are they "disagreeing" with, the existence of these facts?moonangel12 wrote: »Not knowing the exact set up you have, did the face shield move from facial muscles during your sneeze instead of air flow?
I doubt it because, also, the other day I sneezed while wearing a mask but no face shield, and I felt air come out of the mask. Also, the face shield attaches to the face around the forehead and it usually doesn't move easily from talking, facial expressions, etc.If so, might be time for a new mask. As a quilter, there are wide varieties of fabric and even “thick” doesn’t mean tight weave.
And yet the mask restrictions just say "wear a face covering," regardless of whether it's actually effective. Most people aren't quilters and aren't able to find or make the perfect mask that actually works. Especially as, obviously, you can't try them on or take them out of the package before you buy them. If the multi-layered mask I use doesn't work, probably very few masks on the market do, making this little more than security theater.
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I don't believe the numbers. We are being lied to. The CDC and the WHO are master manipulators. Even Dr. Fauci himself was seen not wearing his mask, nor social distancing. Yet, people hang on to his every word. You are being programed, if you believe anything the puppet masters say. Unplug yourself.
There are many reasons why I disagree with this comment. Aside from any facts I could look up and reference, here's the biggest reason why I don't believe in conspiracy theories: human nature.
We can't even cooperate with our allies and business partners over trade deals and other ordinary things. We disagree with each other over everything, from politics to religion to recycling. Human beings are a mess.
Yet, a whole bunch of large organizations are supposed to be working together in some shadowy plot to lie to us and program us -- for freaking what reason? People have never been able to organize worldwide over anything for long.
I wholeheartedly believe people swallow conspiracy theories because:
(1) it's easier than facing reality, which is not only scary, but shows humans have no control over a lot of things
(2) you can bond with others who believe in the same conspiracies and feel you're "right" and "know the truth"
Why has any nation wanted to rule the World? Why have people like Hitler existed? Power and control. If you think this virus is any different, you are blind. This virus was no mistake, it was man made in China. It has been used to spread fear. Is it real, yes. So is the Flu. Lets shut the Country down every Flu season.
I don't understand how you can declare in one post that we can't know anything for sure about infection rates or fatalities, but then confidently state that the virus was deliberately created in China. Obviously you do think SOME sources of information are reliable, you just prefer ones that are pushing fringe theories and encouraging people to ignore preventative measures.14 -
janejellyroll wrote: »I don't believe the numbers. We are being lied to. The CDC and the WHO are master manipulators. Even Dr. Fauci himself was seen not wearing his mask, nor social distancing. Yet, people hang on to his every word. You are being programed, if you believe anything the puppet masters say. Unplug yourself.
There are many reasons why I disagree with this comment. Aside from any facts I could look up and reference, here's the biggest reason why I don't believe in conspiracy theories: human nature.
We can't even cooperate with our allies and business partners over trade deals and other ordinary things. We disagree with each other over everything, from politics to religion to recycling. Human beings are a mess.
Yet, a whole bunch of large organizations are supposed to be working together in some shadowy plot to lie to us and program us -- for freaking what reason? People have never been able to organize worldwide over anything for long.
I wholeheartedly believe people swallow conspiracy theories because:
(1) it's easier than facing reality, which is not only scary, but shows humans have no control over a lot of things
(2) you can bond with others who believe in the same conspiracies and feel you're "right" and "know the truth"
Why has any nation wanted to rule the World? Why have people like Hitler existed? Power and control. If you think this virus is any different, you are blind. This virus was no mistake, it was man made in China. It has been used to spread fear. Is it real, yes. So is the Flu. Lets shut the Country down every Flu season.
I don't understand how you can declare in one post that we can't know anything for sure about infection rates or fatalities, but then confidently state that the virus was deliberately created in China. Obviously you do think SOME sources of information are reliable, you just prefer ones that are pushing fringe theories and encouraging people to ignore preventative measures.
I won’t speak for others but for me it’s not a matter of preference, it’s a matter of evaluating reliability and validity. I personally do not trust most news sources regardless of their opinions. Yes, I think most news sources report opinions and not unbiased news.
Everything is traceable. If you know what OSINT sources are available and are reliable, know what to look for, how to analyze the minutia and weed out what is not relevant, correlate and taxonomize the remaining findings, and some other very cool stuff, attribution begins to appear and the entire story unfolds. I’m not aware of any media sources which have explained this to the general public but this is possible for anyone to do with the right skill set and resources.0 -
I don't believe the numbers. We are being lied to. The CDC and the WHO are master manipulators. Even Dr. Fauci himself was seen not wearing his mask, nor social distancing. Yet, people hang on to his every word. You are being programed, if you believe anything the puppet masters say. Unplug yourself.
There are many reasons why I disagree with this comment. Aside from any facts I could look up and reference, here's the biggest reason why I don't believe in conspiracy theories: human nature.
We can't even cooperate with our allies and business partners over trade deals and other ordinary things. We disagree with each other over everything, from politics to religion to recycling. Human beings are a mess.
Yet, a whole bunch of large organizations are supposed to be working together in some shadowy plot to lie to us and program us -- for freaking what reason? People have never been able to organize worldwide over anything for long.
I wholeheartedly believe people swallow conspiracy theories because:
(1) it's easier than facing reality, which is not only scary, but shows humans have no control over a lot of things
(2) you can bond with others who believe in the same conspiracies and feel you're "right" and "know the truth"
Why has any nation wanted to rule the World? Why have people like Hitler existed? Power and control. If you think this virus is any different, you are blind. This virus was no mistake, it was man made in China. It has been used to spread fear. Is it real, yes. So is the Flu. Lets shut the Country down every Flu season.
You seriously cannot believe this.
Let me guess, you believe everything the Government tells you?3 -
janejellyroll wrote: »I don't believe the numbers. We are being lied to. The CDC and the WHO are master manipulators. Even Dr. Fauci himself was seen not wearing his mask, nor social distancing. Yet, people hang on to his every word. You are being programed, if you believe anything the puppet masters say. Unplug yourself.
There are many reasons why I disagree with this comment. Aside from any facts I could look up and reference, here's the biggest reason why I don't believe in conspiracy theories: human nature.
We can't even cooperate with our allies and business partners over trade deals and other ordinary things. We disagree with each other over everything, from politics to religion to recycling. Human beings are a mess.
Yet, a whole bunch of large organizations are supposed to be working together in some shadowy plot to lie to us and program us -- for freaking what reason? People have never been able to organize worldwide over anything for long.
I wholeheartedly believe people swallow conspiracy theories because:
(1) it's easier than facing reality, which is not only scary, but shows humans have no control over a lot of things
(2) you can bond with others who believe in the same conspiracies and feel you're "right" and "know the truth"
Why has any nation wanted to rule the World? Why have people like Hitler existed? Power and control. If you think this virus is any different, you are blind. This virus was no mistake, it was man made in China. It has been used to spread fear. Is it real, yes. So is the Flu. Lets shut the Country down every Flu season.
I don't understand how you can declare in one post that we can't know anything for sure about infection rates or fatalities, but then confidently state that the virus was deliberately created in China. Obviously you do think SOME sources of information are reliable, you just prefer ones that are pushing fringe theories and encouraging people to ignore preventative measures.
I won’t speak for others but for me it’s not a matter of preference, it’s a matter of evaluating reliability and validity. I personally do not trust most news sources regardless of their opinions. Yes, I think most news sources report opinions and not unbiased news.
Everything is traceable. If you know what OSINT sources are available and are reliable, know what to look for, how to analyze the minutia and weed out what is not relevant, correlate and taxonomize the remaining findings, and some other very cool stuff, attribution begins to appear and the entire story unfolds. I’m not aware of any media sources which have explained this to the general public but this is possible for anyone to do with the right skill set and resources.
We're talking about a specific set of claims -- that the virus was created in China to deliberately infect people, that it is being used by those in positions of power in the US to consolidate power, and that we cannot trust any of the numbers of people infected or who have died due to it. Do you find the news sources putting forward these claims to be especially reliable and valid?
If the answer is "I learned it all through open-source intelligence," okay . . . what sources are those and why are they more valid than other sources reporting different information? The decision to "weed out what isn't relevant" isn't one that is made in a vacuum, it can absolutely involve biases, pre-made decisions, and preferences.
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While using the equipment? No. There is no reason to at my gym. I go at 4 am, there is usually no one there. When walking around in the locker rooms where I might get closer to people? Yes. I have a child with a compromised immune system so I take it more seriously than most people.4
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Ah, I should have checked before bothering to respond. This has just become a typical mudslinging political debate. Anyone who makes a medical issue into a political one is brainwashed beyond redemption no matter which side they're on. Everyone speaks in "talking points" now. Not a single original thought. It's so sad and predictable.2
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I don't believe the numbers. We are being lied to. The CDC and the WHO are master manipulators. Even Dr. Fauci himself was seen not wearing his mask, nor social distancing. Yet, people hang on to his every word. You are being programed, if you believe anything the puppet masters say. Unplug yourself.
There are many reasons why I disagree with this comment. Aside from any facts I could look up and reference, here's the biggest reason why I don't believe in conspiracy theories: human nature.
We can't even cooperate with our allies and business partners over trade deals and other ordinary things. We disagree with each other over everything, from politics to religion to recycling. Human beings are a mess.
Yet, a whole bunch of large organizations are supposed to be working together in some shadowy plot to lie to us and program us -- for freaking what reason? People have never been able to organize worldwide over anything for long.
I wholeheartedly believe people swallow conspiracy theories because:
(1) it's easier than facing reality, which is not only scary, but shows humans have no control over a lot of things
(2) you can bond with others who believe in the same conspiracies and feel you're "right" and "know the truth"
Why has any nation wanted to rule the World? Why have people like Hitler existed? Power and control. If you think this virus is any different, you are blind. This virus was no mistake, it was man made in China. It has been used to spread fear. Is it real, yes. So is the Flu. Lets shut the Country down every Flu season.
You seriously cannot believe this.
Let me guess, you believe everything the Government tells you?
No, I believe science. They are sequencing this virus. It has already been shown that this virus is not man-made. That was months ago.11 -
I don't believe the numbers. We are being lied to. The CDC and the WHO are master manipulators. Even Dr. Fauci himself was seen not wearing his mask, nor social distancing. Yet, people hang on to his every word. You are being programed, if you believe anything the puppet masters say. Unplug yourself.
There are many reasons why I disagree with this comment. Aside from any facts I could look up and reference, here's the biggest reason why I don't believe in conspiracy theories: human nature.
We can't even cooperate with our allies and business partners over trade deals and other ordinary things. We disagree with each other over everything, from politics to religion to recycling. Human beings are a mess.
Yet, a whole bunch of large organizations are supposed to be working together in some shadowy plot to lie to us and program us -- for freaking what reason? People have never been able to organize worldwide over anything for long.
I wholeheartedly believe people swallow conspiracy theories because:
(1) it's easier than facing reality, which is not only scary, but shows humans have no control over a lot of things
(2) you can bond with others who believe in the same conspiracies and feel you're "right" and "know the truth"
Why has any nation wanted to rule the World? Why have people like Hitler existed? Power and control. If you think this virus is any different, you are blind. This virus was no mistake, it was man made in China. It has been used to spread fear. Is it real, yes. So is the Flu. Lets shut the Country down every Flu season.
You seriously cannot believe this.
Let me guess, you believe everything the Government tells you?
No, I believe science. They are sequencing this virus. It has already been shown that this virus is not man-made. That was months ago.
Let me guess, you think it was contracted from eating animals?0 -
I guess I made this jump off the rails. My bad.janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »I don't believe the numbers. We are being lied to. The CDC and the WHO are master manipulators. Even Dr. Fauci himself was seen not wearing his mask, nor social distancing. Yet, people hang on to his every word. You are being programed, if you believe anything the puppet masters say. Unplug yourself.
There are many reasons why I disagree with this comment. Aside from any facts I could look up and reference, here's the biggest reason why I don't believe in conspiracy theories: human nature.
We can't even cooperate with our allies and business partners over trade deals and other ordinary things. We disagree with each other over everything, from politics to religion to recycling. Human beings are a mess.
Yet, a whole bunch of large organizations are supposed to be working together in some shadowy plot to lie to us and program us -- for freaking what reason? People have never been able to organize worldwide over anything for long.
I wholeheartedly believe people swallow conspiracy theories because:
(1) it's easier than facing reality, which is not only scary, but shows humans have no control over a lot of things
(2) you can bond with others who believe in the same conspiracies and feel you're "right" and "know the truth"
Why has any nation wanted to rule the World? Why have people like Hitler existed? Power and control. If you think this virus is any different, you are blind. This virus was no mistake, it was man made in China. It has been used to spread fear. Is it real, yes. So is the Flu. Lets shut the Country down every Flu season.
I don't understand how you can declare in one post that we can't know anything for sure about infection rates or fatalities, but then confidently state that the virus was deliberately created in China. Obviously you do think SOME sources of information are reliable, you just prefer ones that are pushing fringe theories and encouraging people to ignore preventative measures.
I won’t speak for others but for me it’s not a matter of preference, it’s a matter of evaluating reliability and validity. I personally do not trust most news sources regardless of their opinions. Yes, I think most news sources report opinions and not unbiased news.
Everything is traceable. If you know what OSINT sources are available and are reliable, know what to look for, how to analyze the minutia and weed out what is not relevant, correlate and taxonomize the remaining findings, and some other very cool stuff, attribution begins to appear and the entire story unfolds. I’m not aware of any media sources which have explained this to the general public but this is possible for anyone to do with the right skill set and resources.
We're talking about a specific set of claims -- that the virus was created in China to deliberately infect people, that it is being used by those in positions of power in the US to consolidate power, and that we cannot trust any of the numbers of people infected or who have died due to it. Do you find the news sources putting forward these claims to be especially reliable and valid?
If the answer is "I learned it all through open-source intelligence," okay . . . what sources are those and why are they more valid than other sources reporting different information? The decision to "weed out what isn't relevant" isn't one that is made in a vacuum, it can absolutely involve biases, pre-made decisions, and preferences.
All I’m saying is that there is much more information available to us than many may know.
Absolutely some OSINT sources are less reputable than others and each needs scrutinized. And, those who do this professionally are well aware of that. Even the most reputable source overall will have a reputation that is higher in some areas of data and lower in others. The second highest may have a higher reputation than the first in their lower areas. It’s pretty complicated and the consultants who do this professionally make some $.
When you’re gathering and collecting information you will over collect data that can be irrelevant all together or even associated but not relevant to the research. For example, I may be following a component or piece of firmware through a supply chain and while doing so I may come across someone’s non-work email address. Is it associated with what I’m looking for? It could be. Is it relevant? Probably not and will be weeded out until such time as it is relevant.0 -
I don't believe the numbers. We are being lied to. The CDC and the WHO are master manipulators. Even Dr. Fauci himself was seen not wearing his mask, nor social distancing. Yet, people hang on to his every word. You are being programed, if you believe anything the puppet masters say. Unplug yourself.
There are many reasons why I disagree with this comment. Aside from any facts I could look up and reference, here's the biggest reason why I don't believe in conspiracy theories: human nature.
We can't even cooperate with our allies and business partners over trade deals and other ordinary things. We disagree with each other over everything, from politics to religion to recycling. Human beings are a mess.
Yet, a whole bunch of large organizations are supposed to be working together in some shadowy plot to lie to us and program us -- for freaking what reason? People have never been able to organize worldwide over anything for long.
I wholeheartedly believe people swallow conspiracy theories because:
(1) it's easier than facing reality, which is not only scary, but shows humans have no control over a lot of things
(2) you can bond with others who believe in the same conspiracies and feel you're "right" and "know the truth"
Why has any nation wanted to rule the World? Why have people like Hitler existed? Power and control. If you think this virus is any different, you are blind. This virus was no mistake, it was man made in China. It has been used to spread fear. Is it real, yes. So is the Flu. Lets shut the Country down every Flu season.
You seriously cannot believe this.
Let me guess, you believe everything the Government tells you?
No, I believe science. They are sequencing this virus. It has already been shown that this virus is not man-made. That was months ago.
Let me guess, you think it was contracted from eating animals?
No. They actually do not know how the initial spillover occurred. They initially thought it was the wet markets. But we still don't know. I still see a few people on FB talking about bat soup, but there is no evidence for that at all. The virus is closely related to bat coronaviruses. But the initial spillover event may have come from an intermediate host.7 -
As a newly retired healthcare worker, trust me. You do NOT want to contract this disease, nor do you want to infect anyone else (if you have a conscience). Its a horrible way to suffer. Just wear the mask please.19
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I don't believe the numbers. We are being lied to. The CDC and the WHO are master manipulators. Even Dr. Fauci himself was seen not wearing his mask, nor social distancing. Yet, people hang on to his every word. You are being programed, if you believe anything the puppet masters say. Unplug yourself.
There are many reasons why I disagree with this comment. Aside from any facts I could look up and reference, here's the biggest reason why I don't believe in conspiracy theories: human nature.
We can't even cooperate with our allies and business partners over trade deals and other ordinary things. We disagree with each other over everything, from politics to religion to recycling. Human beings are a mess.
Yet, a whole bunch of large organizations are supposed to be working together in some shadowy plot to lie to us and program us -- for freaking what reason? People have never been able to organize worldwide over anything for long.
I wholeheartedly believe people swallow conspiracy theories because:
(1) it's easier than facing reality, which is not only scary, but shows humans have no control over a lot of things
(2) you can bond with others who believe in the same conspiracies and feel you're "right" and "know the truth"
Why has any nation wanted to rule the World? Why have people like Hitler existed? Power and control. If you think this virus is any different, you are blind. This virus was no mistake, it was man made in China. It has been used to spread fear. Is it real, yes. So is the Flu. Lets shut the Country down every Flu season.
You seriously cannot believe this.
Let me guess, you believe everything the Government tells you?
No, I believe science. They are sequencing this virus. It has already been shown that this virus is not man-made. That was months ago.
Who showed that, exactly?3 -
Fit_Chef_NE wrote: »Ah, I should have checked before bothering to respond. This has just become a typical mudslinging political debate. Anyone who makes a medical issue into a political one is brainwashed beyond redemption no matter which side they're on. Everyone speaks in "talking points" now. Not a single original thought. It's so sad and predictable.
I just want to point out that coming into a debate and declaring everyone is wrong and you're the only one capable of original thought is pretty common also.
Just because sometimes people agree doesn't mean they aren't thinking originally. It means that sometimes people can draw similar conclusions from considering a set of facts.9 -
Fit_Chef_NE wrote: »Ah, I should have checked before bothering to respond. This has just become a typical mudslinging political debate. Anyone who makes a medical issue into a political one is brainwashed beyond redemption no matter which side they're on. Everyone speaks in "talking points" now. Not a single original thought. It's so sad and predictable.
As evidenced by the fact that people are downvoting me on posts that are just linking articles which present facts, simply because the facts do not fit their political agenda. And they are upvoting the people who continue to make claims about COVID-19 policy that I have disproven through the articles I posted -- even though, unlike me, those people have not linked any sources to support their claims. Oh, and they are accusing me of "trying to start an argument" just for having a dissenting opinion, when THEY are the ones who falsely claimed I am a liar.
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Mandated here, so in the stores, etc. I'm a masker.
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janejellyroll wrote: »I don't believe the numbers. We are being lied to. The CDC and the WHO are master manipulators. Even Dr. Fauci himself was seen not wearing his mask, nor social distancing. Yet, people hang on to his every word. You are being programed, if you believe anything the puppet masters say. Unplug yourself.
There are many reasons why I disagree with this comment. Aside from any facts I could look up and reference, here's the biggest reason why I don't believe in conspiracy theories: human nature.
We can't even cooperate with our allies and business partners over trade deals and other ordinary things. We disagree with each other over everything, from politics to religion to recycling. Human beings are a mess.
Yet, a whole bunch of large organizations are supposed to be working together in some shadowy plot to lie to us and program us -- for freaking what reason? People have never been able to organize worldwide over anything for long.
I wholeheartedly believe people swallow conspiracy theories because:
(1) it's easier than facing reality, which is not only scary, but shows humans have no control over a lot of things
(2) you can bond with others who believe in the same conspiracies and feel you're "right" and "know the truth"
Why has any nation wanted to rule the World? Why have people like Hitler existed? Power and control. If you think this virus is any different, you are blind. This virus was no mistake, it was man made in China. It has been used to spread fear. Is it real, yes. So is the Flu. Lets shut the Country down every Flu season.
You seriously cannot believe this.
Let me guess, you believe everything the Government tells you?
No, I believe science. They are sequencing this virus. It has already been shown that this virus is not man-made. That was months ago.
Who showed that, exactly?
I will look it up and come back. It's been a while, so I have to go back and find it.1 -
janejellyroll wrote: »I don't believe the numbers. We are being lied to. The CDC and the WHO are master manipulators. Even Dr. Fauci himself was seen not wearing his mask, nor social distancing. Yet, people hang on to his every word. You are being programed, if you believe anything the puppet masters say. Unplug yourself.
There are many reasons why I disagree with this comment. Aside from any facts I could look up and reference, here's the biggest reason why I don't believe in conspiracy theories: human nature.
We can't even cooperate with our allies and business partners over trade deals and other ordinary things. We disagree with each other over everything, from politics to religion to recycling. Human beings are a mess.
Yet, a whole bunch of large organizations are supposed to be working together in some shadowy plot to lie to us and program us -- for freaking what reason? People have never been able to organize worldwide over anything for long.
I wholeheartedly believe people swallow conspiracy theories because:
(1) it's easier than facing reality, which is not only scary, but shows humans have no control over a lot of things
(2) you can bond with others who believe in the same conspiracies and feel you're "right" and "know the truth"
Why has any nation wanted to rule the World? Why have people like Hitler existed? Power and control. If you think this virus is any different, you are blind. This virus was no mistake, it was man made in China. It has been used to spread fear. Is it real, yes. So is the Flu. Lets shut the Country down every Flu season.
You seriously cannot believe this.
Let me guess, you believe everything the Government tells you?
No, I believe science. They are sequencing this virus. It has already been shown that this virus is not man-made. That was months ago.
Who showed that, exactly?
I tried to dig back into all this. It goes all the way back to February/March, and its been hard finding the articles again. Much of what I dug into came from This Week in Virology, which is a group of virologists who have been presenting information on this since January/February. I posted a link to one of the early podcasts that discussed the conspiracy theories. I don't have time to listen again to hear their source (but they are good about backing things up with science. These guys are freaking awesome.). I also linked to an episode of TwiEvo (this week in evolution). They have several episodes following the evolution of this virus. If I can I find my more specific stuff, I will come back. I know someone in my facebook friends has what I'm looking for!
https://microbe.tv/twiv/twiv-588/
https://microbe.tv/twievo/twievo-52/2 -
janejellyroll wrote: »I don't believe the numbers. We are being lied to. The CDC and the WHO are master manipulators. Even Dr. Fauci himself was seen not wearing his mask, nor social distancing. Yet, people hang on to his every word. You are being programed, if you believe anything the puppet masters say. Unplug yourself.
There are many reasons why I disagree with this comment. Aside from any facts I could look up and reference, here's the biggest reason why I don't believe in conspiracy theories: human nature.
We can't even cooperate with our allies and business partners over trade deals and other ordinary things. We disagree with each other over everything, from politics to religion to recycling. Human beings are a mess.
Yet, a whole bunch of large organizations are supposed to be working together in some shadowy plot to lie to us and program us -- for freaking what reason? People have never been able to organize worldwide over anything for long.
I wholeheartedly believe people swallow conspiracy theories because:
(1) it's easier than facing reality, which is not only scary, but shows humans have no control over a lot of things
(2) you can bond with others who believe in the same conspiracies and feel you're "right" and "know the truth"
Why has any nation wanted to rule the World? Why have people like Hitler existed? Power and control. If you think this virus is any different, you are blind. This virus was no mistake, it was man made in China. It has been used to spread fear. Is it real, yes. So is the Flu. Lets shut the Country down every Flu season.
You seriously cannot believe this.
Let me guess, you believe everything the Government tells you?
No, I believe science. They are sequencing this virus. It has already been shown that this virus is not man-made. That was months ago.
Who showed that, exactly?
I tried to dig back into all this. It goes all the way back to February/March, and its been hard finding the articles again. Much of what I dug into came from This Week in Virology, which is a group of virologists who have been presenting information on this since January/February. I posted a link to one of the early podcasts that discussed the conspiracy theories. I don't have time to listen again to hear their source (but they are good about backing things up with science. These guys are freaking awesome.). I also linked to an episode of TwiEvo (this week in evolution). They have several episodes following the evolution of this virus. If I can I find my more specific stuff, I will come back. I know someone in my facebook friends has what I'm looking for!
https://microbe.tv/twiv/twiv-588/
https://microbe.tv/twievo/twievo-52/
Proof that COVID-19 was deliberately created in a lab is pretty much the definition of "big, if true" news. If the only thing you can find to support the claim is a podcast, I'm going to conclude that it has not, in fact, "already been shown" to be true months ago. I have no doubt that people on podcasts were making the claim months ago, but that is very different from something having "already been shown" in a way that is reliable.
I have no doubt that your friends on Facebook will support your claim and provide you with lots of podcast links, YouTube videos, and various blogs to support the claim. It's pretty much what Facebook is famous for at this point. It's the throbbing, teeming center of our current crisis of misinformation and conspiracy theories.
If you ever do find any reputable sources for the claim, I'd love to evaluate them.5 -
This is another interesting link a friend sent. May not be what some are looking for, but I found it interesting. I hope it opens right. It is from May.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1kAHSEx9-eIyVIahczH8itHaUm9jI9WX7/view?fbclid=IwAR2uVuZqQFBAahqP8QlPigApZp96kEQYjSBnXZoFfQjg5PnTPYASjzUsp7U1 -
Hmm, what I'm thinking as I read through:
The building is burning.
Your children are inside.
Let me talk to everyone standing outside the building about the following:
How did it start?
Whose fault was it?
What mechanism can we use to determine the spread of the blaze?
The building is still burning. Your kids are still inside.
Hey, let's try this hose filled with water.
What water? Did this water come from China? Didn't they use water in other countries when buildings were on fire? Shouldn't we investigate if water is the best way to put out a fire?
The building has burnt down. Your children are dead.
I'd be interested to learn how those who choose not to wear masks, social distance, et al propose that we should put out the fire.12 -
laurenq1991 wrote: »slimgirljo15 wrote: »Your original post said Australia , yet you were talking about Victorian restrictions obviously that was confusing to me.
Victoria is part of Australia, is it not?Nevermind. If you're spoiling for an argument, you won't get one here.
"Spoiling for an argument"? I was just stating my opinion. Other people are the ones who started arguing with me by accusing me of "spreading lies about their country." And then "disagreeing" with my posts that were just posting news articles supporting what I was saying...like what exactly are they "disagreeing" with, the existence of these facts?moonangel12 wrote: »Not knowing the exact set up you have, did the face shield move from facial muscles during your sneeze instead of air flow?
I doubt it because, also, the other day I sneezed while wearing a mask but no face shield, and I felt air come out of the mask. Also, the face shield attaches to the face around the forehead and it usually doesn't move easily from talking, facial expressions, etc.If so, might be time for a new mask. As a quilter, there are wide varieties of fabric and even “thick” doesn’t mean tight weave.
And yet the mask restrictions just say "wear a face covering," regardless of whether it's actually effective. Most people aren't quilters and aren't able to find or make the perfect mask that actually works. Especially as, obviously, you can't try them on or take them out of the package before you buy them. If the multi-layered mask I use doesn't work, probably very few masks on the market do, making this little more than security theater.
I don’t know, I have the mindset that something is better than nothing. I don’t see it as “security theater” I see it as people making an effort to do their part with the materials that they are given or that are made available. Are some people being silly about it by wearing open mesh “masks” to prove their own point about flawed regulations? Yes, but are they the majority? No. And because of the few making their mark in the news by being verbally or even physically aggressive against said mandates, people aren’t going to be as comfortable enforcing them for fear of retaliation. The world has gone mad.
If you didn’t see spit splatter on the inside of your face shield when you sneezed, even if air flow did move it, to me that shows the mask as having some form of a success rate (it blocked spray, which is what contains the virus and spreads it ridiculous distances in those situations).
“Perfection is the enemy of good.”
Since something doesn’t work 100%, might as well not bother, reducing the effectiveness to 0%... that doesn’t make sense to me.
13 -
Masks are a placebo to assuage some of the fear that people have about the virus. I'm fine with that. I'll play along. I would rather this than shut down the economy again.
But my mom had double lung surgeries and my dad has extremely bad claustrophobia, so they can't wear them, and I don't think we should shame them for it either.4 -
janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »I don't believe the numbers. We are being lied to. The CDC and the WHO are master manipulators. Even Dr. Fauci himself was seen not wearing his mask, nor social distancing. Yet, people hang on to his every word. You are being programed, if you believe anything the puppet masters say. Unplug yourself.
There are many reasons why I disagree with this comment. Aside from any facts I could look up and reference, here's the biggest reason why I don't believe in conspiracy theories: human nature.
We can't even cooperate with our allies and business partners over trade deals and other ordinary things. We disagree with each other over everything, from politics to religion to recycling. Human beings are a mess.
Yet, a whole bunch of large organizations are supposed to be working together in some shadowy plot to lie to us and program us -- for freaking what reason? People have never been able to organize worldwide over anything for long.
I wholeheartedly believe people swallow conspiracy theories because:
(1) it's easier than facing reality, which is not only scary, but shows humans have no control over a lot of things
(2) you can bond with others who believe in the same conspiracies and feel you're "right" and "know the truth"
Why has any nation wanted to rule the World? Why have people like Hitler existed? Power and control. If you think this virus is any different, you are blind. This virus was no mistake, it was man made in China. It has been used to spread fear. Is it real, yes. So is the Flu. Lets shut the Country down every Flu season.
You seriously cannot believe this.
Let me guess, you believe everything the Government tells you?
No, I believe science. They are sequencing this virus. It has already been shown that this virus is not man-made. That was months ago.
Who showed that, exactly?
I tried to dig back into all this. It goes all the way back to February/March, and its been hard finding the articles again. Much of what I dug into came from This Week in Virology, which is a group of virologists who have been presenting information on this since January/February. I posted a link to one of the early podcasts that discussed the conspiracy theories. I don't have time to listen again to hear their source (but they are good about backing things up with science. These guys are freaking awesome.). I also linked to an episode of TwiEvo (this week in evolution). They have several episodes following the evolution of this virus. If I can I find my more specific stuff, I will come back. I know someone in my facebook friends has what I'm looking for!
https://microbe.tv/twiv/twiv-588/
https://microbe.tv/twievo/twievo-52/
Proof that COVID-19 was deliberately created in a lab is pretty much the definition of "big, if true" news. If the only thing you can find to support the claim is a podcast, I'm going to conclude that it has not, in fact, "already been shown" to be true months ago. I have no doubt that people on podcasts were making the claim months ago, but that is very different from something having "already been shown" in a way that is reliable.
I have no doubt that your friends on Facebook will support your claim and provide you with lots of podcast links, YouTube videos, and various blogs to support the claim. It's pretty much what Facebook is famous for at this point. It's the throbbing, teeming center of our current crisis of misinformation and conspiracy theories.
If you ever do find any reputable sources for the claim, I'd love to evaluate them.
Wrong person you think was sharing this.
DNARules said NOT created in lab and you asked where that was from.
Info is other direction.5 -
moonangel12 wrote: »I don’t know, I have the mindset that something is better than nothing. I don’t see it as “security theater” I see it as people making an effort to do their part with the materials that they are given or that are made available. Are some people being silly about it by wearing open mesh “masks” to prove their own point about flawed regulations? Yes, but are they the majority? No. And because of the few making their mark in the news by being verbally or even physically aggressive against said mandates, people aren’t going to be as comfortable enforcing them for fear of retaliation. The world has gone mad.
If you didn’t see spit splatter on the inside of your face shield when you sneezed, even if air flow did move it, to me that shows the mask as having some form of a success rate (it blocked spray, which is what contains the virus and spreads it ridiculous distances in those situations).
“Perfection is the enemy of good.”
Since something doesn’t work 100%, might as well not bother, reducing the effectiveness to 0%... that doesn’t make sense to me.
The question isn't whether it's having some effect. The question is how effective it is. There's a lot of memes such as "mask it or casket!" or "if you think it's hard to breathe with a mask, try using a ventilator!" that basically say that if you don't wear a mask, you will die, and if you do wear a mask, you will not die. The question is, how true is this? In which subset of situations was the mask the difference between catching COVID-19 and not catching it? And in what subset of those situations did the person actually end up dying of COVID-19? Are people really catching COVID-19 and dying of it from just walking around the grocery store, for example? And could some of those cases have been prevented by wearing masks? And if so, what percentage of cases does this represent?
I think a lot of people also use the mask as a security blanket, basically assuming it's 100% effective despite a lack of data to suggest that. For example, people who were normally pro-lockdown felt perfectly fine gathering in large crowds to protest for hours and hours, because "everyone is wearing a mask" (even though there's a lot of photos and videos of protestors not wearing masks, or not wearing them correctly, but I digress). A lot of municipalities made the decision for contact tracing to not ask people if they had been to a protest, so we couldn't collect sufficient data on whether wearing masks in a huge crowd is sufficient to prevent the spread of COVID-19. (Although, coincidentally, a lot of those areas with large protests had case surges in people under age 45 a few weeks later.)
But then, ironically, the same people who justify doing what they want to do with "everyone was wearing masks," get mad when you ask "if masks are so effective, and given the devastating effects of lockdown that also kills many people, why don't we just open everything back up with mask laws?" Which indicates to me that they really aren't interested in what the science has to say -- and right now what it has to say is pretty inconclusive on the matter -- but are just pushing an agenda.
Also, don't forget, people are also being physically aggressive against people who don't wear masks. Which is pretty ridiculous since that involves close contact with the person, but, this is the world we live in now.
The other question is what the end game is here. Are we supposed to wear masks forever? Until COVID-19 is done with? (It's already been effectively done with in my state for months, and yet we're still wearing masks in any indoor public space, without any clear information on whether they're actually doing anything.) For other respiratory pandemics such as the seasonal flu? Or, should only people with symptoms wear them? (which is how masks were typically worn in Asian countries where they were commonplace, post-SARS) And what are the long-term health effects, if any, of wearing one? There are still no answers to any of these questions.
2 -
janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »I don't believe the numbers. We are being lied to. The CDC and the WHO are master manipulators. Even Dr. Fauci himself was seen not wearing his mask, nor social distancing. Yet, people hang on to his every word. You are being programed, if you believe anything the puppet masters say. Unplug yourself.
There are many reasons why I disagree with this comment. Aside from any facts I could look up and reference, here's the biggest reason why I don't believe in conspiracy theories: human nature.
We can't even cooperate with our allies and business partners over trade deals and other ordinary things. We disagree with each other over everything, from politics to religion to recycling. Human beings are a mess.
Yet, a whole bunch of large organizations are supposed to be working together in some shadowy plot to lie to us and program us -- for freaking what reason? People have never been able to organize worldwide over anything for long.
I wholeheartedly believe people swallow conspiracy theories because:
(1) it's easier than facing reality, which is not only scary, but shows humans have no control over a lot of things
(2) you can bond with others who believe in the same conspiracies and feel you're "right" and "know the truth"
Why has any nation wanted to rule the World? Why have people like Hitler existed? Power and control. If you think this virus is any different, you are blind. This virus was no mistake, it was man made in China. It has been used to spread fear. Is it real, yes. So is the Flu. Lets shut the Country down every Flu season.
You seriously cannot believe this.
Let me guess, you believe everything the Government tells you?
No, I believe science. They are sequencing this virus. It has already been shown that this virus is not man-made. That was months ago.
Who showed that, exactly?
I tried to dig back into all this. It goes all the way back to February/March, and its been hard finding the articles again. Much of what I dug into came from This Week in Virology, which is a group of virologists who have been presenting information on this since January/February. I posted a link to one of the early podcasts that discussed the conspiracy theories. I don't have time to listen again to hear their source (but they are good about backing things up with science. These guys are freaking awesome.). I also linked to an episode of TwiEvo (this week in evolution). They have several episodes following the evolution of this virus. If I can I find my more specific stuff, I will come back. I know someone in my facebook friends has what I'm looking for!
https://microbe.tv/twiv/twiv-588/
https://microbe.tv/twievo/twievo-52/
Proof that COVID-19 was deliberately created in a lab is pretty much the definition of "big, if true" news. If the only thing you can find to support the claim is a podcast, I'm going to conclude that it has not, in fact, "already been shown" to be true months ago. I have no doubt that people on podcasts were making the claim months ago, but that is very different from something having "already been shown" in a way that is reliable.
I have no doubt that your friends on Facebook will support your claim and provide you with lots of podcast links, YouTube videos, and various blogs to support the claim. It's pretty much what Facebook is famous for at this point. It's the throbbing, teeming center of our current crisis of misinformation and conspiracy theories.
If you ever do find any reputable sources for the claim, I'd love to evaluate them.
Wow, that's not what I said at all. I said the evidence is strong that it is NOT created in a lab.
Also, I did say that I can't find the source, but the podcasts covered it well. And I highly recommend the podcasts. They are based on science. They are pretty awesome.5 -
moonangel12 wrote: »laurenq1991 wrote: »slimgirljo15 wrote: »Your original post said Australia , yet you were talking about Victorian restrictions obviously that was confusing to me.
Victoria is part of Australia, is it not?Nevermind. If you're spoiling for an argument, you won't get one here.
"Spoiling for an argument"? I was just stating my opinion. Other people are the ones who started arguing with me by accusing me of "spreading lies about their country." And then "disagreeing" with my posts that were just posting news articles supporting what I was saying...like what exactly are they "disagreeing" with, the existence of these facts?moonangel12 wrote: »Not knowing the exact set up you have, did the face shield move from facial muscles during your sneeze instead of air flow?
I doubt it because, also, the other day I sneezed while wearing a mask but no face shield, and I felt air come out of the mask. Also, the face shield attaches to the face around the forehead and it usually doesn't move easily from talking, facial expressions, etc.If so, might be time for a new mask. As a quilter, there are wide varieties of fabric and even “thick” doesn’t mean tight weave.
And yet the mask restrictions just say "wear a face covering," regardless of whether it's actually effective. Most people aren't quilters and aren't able to find or make the perfect mask that actually works. Especially as, obviously, you can't try them on or take them out of the package before you buy them. If the multi-layered mask I use doesn't work, probably very few masks on the market do, making this little more than security theater.
I don’t know, I have the mindset that something is better than nothing. I don’t see it as “security theater” I see it as people making an effort to do their part with the materials that they are given or that are made available. Are some people being silly about it by wearing open mesh “masks” to prove their own point about flawed regulations? Yes, but are they the majority? No. And because of the few making their mark in the news by being verbally or even physically aggressive against said mandates, people aren’t going to be as comfortable enforcing them for fear of retaliation. The world has gone mad.
If you didn’t see spit splatter on the inside of your face shield when you sneezed, even if air flow did move it, to me that shows the mask as having some form of a success rate (it blocked spray, which is what contains the virus and spreads it ridiculous distances in those situations).
“Perfection is the enemy of good.”
Since something doesn’t work 100%, might as well not bother, reducing the effectiveness to 0%... that doesn’t make sense to me.
Well said.3 -
Whenever I am out in public I wear a mask.9
-
None for me.1
-
Here in California it’s a mandate to wear a mask and I’m glad! In the City of West Hollywood they are now fining people for not wearing a mask and I’m glad! All indoor dining in restaurants is closed but they allow outdoor dining with tables 6 feet apart where mask wearing is not mandated but even then I wear a face shield and have learned to eat under the face shield lol. When I go to the beach in a non-crowded area, I take it off, but that’s it. I think if everyone just wore the stupid mask for 14 days, stayed to themselves and didn’t cheat, we would have been over this months ago!
16
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