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Face mask or no face mask?

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  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
    edited August 2020
    will_it_go_round_in_circles wrote: »
    cgvet37 wrote: »
    Masks do nothing but give a false sense of security. You better wear a respirator, goggles, and gloves. Dispose of gloves before entering your vehicle. Sanitize your car and anything you purchased when you get home. You better take your clothes off in the garage, and immediately take them to the washer. Then take a shower. If not, you are putting a bandaid on a sucking chest wound.

    If security is what you're looking for in a mask then you need to change your expectations. No one has stated that it makes you secure from becoming infected, only that it can help to stem the tide of free floating droplets. It's not an end all by any means. It's helpful. Why not take all the help you can get? You've expended more energy resisting and damning the idea than it would take just to put one one and run to the store.

    Statement A is said to be required (even though it's really not been stated that way by those making the request).
    Statement A in misstated form is not true.
    Therefore throw the whole thing out, and anything even close to misstated Statement A is false too on anything else said.

    Sadly there are many local news stories about people doing just that and acting on it.
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/07/02/man-who-went-party-warned-people-not-be-an-idiot-like-me-day-before-dying-covid-19/

    Of course that's from a news source - so it gets thrown out too.
  • laurenq1991
    laurenq1991 Posts: 384 Member
    edited August 2020
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    We don't know for sure, but likely, yes, there would have been more deaths without the lockdown (such as it was). Italy is a comparison, where it seems shutting down reduced the cases.

    What is your evidence that shutting down Italy permanently reduced the cases, as opposed to just delaying them? Especially considering it's having an increase in cases right now: https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2020-08-20/italy-sees-845-new-covid-19-cases-highest-since-end-of-lockdown-in-may
    Like I said, I personally think we should have responded more regionally (on a formal basis).

    So then you agree with me, that the only reason to lock down would be to prevent hospitals from getting overwhelmed, not to permanently stop or eradicate cases?
    No, that's an oversimplification. No one is saying higher deaths is always about compliance. It seems to me obvious, in the US and Europe, that it has a lot more to do with other things too, like testing and tracing, population density, and how early the virus hit your area (i.e., extent to which you are an international hub with lots of travel). Also, things like reliance on public transit and extent of multi-generational families. I could likely come up with a whole lot more, but those seem like big things. Within communities, though, you can certainly see examples of non-compliance leading to outbreaks (and those events are similar to ones that led to outbreaks before we all knew better -- there are obvious likely super-spreader events, and we are seeing it now with college kids and parties).

    Ok well this person who I was responding to, claimed that the spread of cases was due to "people not behaving."
    NZ's cases were from abroad. NZ has been generally open, because they managed to shut the border, quarantine those coming in, and thus have no community spread. What that means is that they should be able to get the current (very small, vs the US, it's crazy you seem to think we have any grounds to say they are not doing well) number of cases down to 0 pretty quickly, as they have a system in place and few enough cases that they can do real contact tracing and quarantine.

    They don't even know where these new cases in New Zealand came from, and even resorted to claiming they may have come from frozen food shipments. My guess is that there was likely low-level community spread that was undetected, considering how many cases of COVID-19 are asymptomatic or mildly symptomatic.
    https://arstechnica.com/science/2020/08/new-zealand-baffled-by-new-covid-19-cases-eyes-frozen-food-packaging/

    And if you don't get rid of it entirely, all it takes is a few cases and it will begin spreading again. We know they failed at totally eradicating it once already. Then, of course, even if you do eradicate it, then you're stuck being cut off from the rest of the world until a vaccine that may never come or may take years.
    But to answer the question -- I think a hard lockdown combined with getting testing really up to speed early on would have allowed us to get cases down to a low enough number that we could be testing and tracing and could open schools (here stores are already open and restaurants for outside service, so schools are the main thing that I am concerned about being closed).

    The US is testing on par with other Western countries (https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus-testing). Lack of testing has not been a problem for us for months.

    Contact tracing, apart from having some serious privacy concerns, is also difficult to do when there is already established community spread. Even Germany's "successful" contact-tracing program is missing a lot of cases.
    https://theconversation.com/coronavirus-why-testing-and-contact-tracing-isnt-a-simple-solution-137214
    https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/03/why-coronavirus-contact-tracing-apps-havent-been-a-game-changer.html

    "In May, a report said Iceland had achieved the largest penetration of any virus-tracking app, with 38% of its 364,000 inhabitants installing it. But the Iceland app, which collected people’s GPS data, “wasn’t a game changer,” according to Gestur Pálmason, the deputy chief inspector of Iceland’s Covid-19 tracing team. "
    They aren't closed. They are merely closed to other countries, but for those quarantining. As it gets more in control in the rest of the world, that will change, and yes part of all this depends on whether we can get good vaccine or treatments.

    Huh? In parts of Australia people are not even allowed to travel more than 5km from their home or exercise outside for more than 60 minutes. And they are stopped and harassed by the police whenever they go outside. That sure sounds "closed" to me.
    I think you've been reading some bad sources, because Australia has had schools open, and is certainly not entirely shut down. That people WITH the illness are quarantined doesn't mean everyone must stay indoors.

    Bad sources? The Guardian is a "bad source"?

    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/aug/19/victoria-stage-4-restrictions-melbourne-lockdown-rules-covid-19-stage-four-metropolitan-metro-explained-what-you-need-to-know
  • cgvet37
    cgvet37 Posts: 1,189 Member
    will_it_go_round_in_circles wrote: »
    cgvet37 wrote: »
    will_it_go_round_in_circles wrote: »
    cgvet37 wrote: »
    Masks do nothing but give a false sense of security. You better wear a respirator, goggles, and gloves. Dispose of gloves before entering your vehicle. Sanitize your car and anything you purchased when you get home. You better take your clothes off in the garage, and immediately take them to the washer. Then take a shower. If not, you are putting a bandaid on a sucking chest wound.

    If security is what you're looking for in a mask then you need to change your expectations. No one has stated that it makes you secure from becoming infected, only that it can help to stem the tide of free floating droplets. It's not an end all by any means. It's helpful. Why not take all the help you can get? You've expended more energy resisting and damning the idea than it would take just to put one one and run to the store.

    I know the limitations of masks. It's conveyed to the masses that they are some sort of magic shield.

    It really isn't though. All the campaigns I have seen make it pretty clear that the effort is to help those around you and it''s delivered as a really simple thing that you can do that might help.

    Such a simple thing, that many people can't even wear a mask properly. I guess they think the virus can't enter through their noses. Or know anything about cross contamination. There is plastic on the keypad, I'm safe.
  • jamloche
    jamloche Posts: 109 Member
    edited August 2020
    laurenq1991 wrote: »

    The problem is that [utilizing PPE and good hygiene] never gets anywhere. We never get conclusive info on to what extent masks and hygiene prevent the spread of COVID-19. And we never get a policy that allows more things to open up because masks and hygiene are mitigating the spread. That's why a lot of people don't believe masks work. Well, that, and all the virtue-signaling memes people constantly post about them on social media, which makes them seem more like a political talking point than anything else.

    I think this is a good point. At this stage in the pandemic, the effectiveness of masks should not even be in question, but even the CDC cannot point to any well-conducted and conclusive studies and put an end to the debate. Don't get me wrong, I am in favor of wearing masks. I think it's the right thing to do (better safe than sorry). But I don't feel the same way about the lockdowns. The cost that we paid for these lockdowns (and continue to pay) is staggering. Devastating. and if we remember correctly, they were never intended to reduce the number of cases ... only to slow it down so that the hospitals could keep up.

    Now here it is, five months later. Lockdowns are still in place, and Covid-19 is on track to become the third largest cause of death in 2020 (in the USA, not sure about global stats). I'm not surprised that people are reacting poorly
  • BrustMannEiner
    BrustMannEiner Posts: 360 Member
    Ya'll leave me alone and I'll leave you alone. We don't mask around here. The biggest threat, as I see it, to our rural community, is those from more densely populated areas trying to get away from the 'rona and putting us as risk. To those of you leaving the areas you no longer feel safe in and coming to our communities because you need fresh air, I'll regurgitate a statement that others have directed towards us for not wearing a mask, "You're selfish".

    I'd also point out that it's becoming more and more regular that individuals forced to wear masks are complaining about personal health problems they are beginning to experience.

    Masks are not intended to protect me I'm told. Masks are intended to reduce the risk I may infecting others. Social distancing is important I'm told. Well, I'll continue taking personal responsibility for myself and you do the same. Feel free to stay away from those of us who don't wear masks. I do not patronize any place that 'requires' me to wear a mask so I'm doing my part to stay away from you.
  • laurenq1991
    laurenq1991 Posts: 384 Member
    jamloche wrote: »
    I think this is a good point. At this stage in the pandemic, the effectiveness of masks should not even be in question, but even the CDC cannot point to any well-conducted and conclusive studies and put an end to the debate.

    Exactly! And on top of that, these organizations (CDC, WHO, etc.) have claimed masks don't work twice -- first in February/March/April, and then again briefly in early June before backtracking. Is it any wonder people don't believe them?
    Don't get me wrong, I am in favor of wearing masks. I think it's the right thing to do (better safe than sorry).

    Yeah it really doesn't bother me to wear a mask either. It is an annoyance, and I think it's mostly security theater (I compare it to the TSA liquid and shoe-removal restrictions), but if mask-wearing was the only thing we were required to do for COVID-19, I would have no problem with it. To be honest, my problem is really more with how nasty and judgmental people get over even questioning the established narrative. You aren't even allowed to question whether masks are effective without being painted as some kind of "conspiracy theorist who is antivax and doesn't believe in water fluoridation", even though the actual studies on masks come out both for and against. Just like you aren't allowed to question the lockdowns without being called a "selfish grandma killer."
    But I don't feel the same way about the lockdowns. The cost that we paid for these lockdowns (and continue to pay) is staggering. Devastating. and if we remember correctly, they were never intended to reduce the number of cases ... only to slow it down so that the hospitals could keep up.

    Again, if the lockdowns had actually been used for the originally stated purpose only -- preventing hospitals from being overwhelmed -- I would have absolutely no problem with them. And if they had only been used for that purpose, they would have been over months ago in my area, because our cases and deaths peaked in April.

    The problem is that people don't even see the second-order deaths and negative effects from other causes, because they really aren't being tracked. People are trying to get their hands on the 2020 suicide statistics for example, and that data isn't even available -- the latest suicide data available is from 2017. But we sure have COVID stats!

    However, here are some articles on second-order effects. Just a sampling...there's a lot more where that came from.
    https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200528-why-most-covid-19-deaths-wont-be-from-the-virus
    https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2020/may/13/unicef-6000-children-could-die-every-day-due-to-impact-of-coronavirus
    https://www.upi.com/Health_News/2020/08/18/Study-suggests-horrifying-rise-in-domestic-violence-during-pandemic/3921597767583/
    https://www.bbc.com/news/health-52527994
    https://abc7news.com/suicide-covid-19-coronavirus-rates-during-pandemic-death-by/6201962/
    https://www.nj.com/opinion/2020/05/a-month-of-hell-my-appendectomy-had-to-wait-because-of-coronavirus.html
    Now here it is, five months later. Lockdowns are still in place, and Covid-19 is on track to become the third largest cause of death in 2020 (in the USA, not sure about global stats). I'm not surprised that people are reacting poorly

    The thing that makes me angriest is that it has completely gutted the area in which I live. I've lived in, or within 10 miles of, NYC my entire life (except for college). Within just a few months, NYC has regressed to where it was in the 1970s, due to these lockdowns. Don't get me wrong, NYC had a lot of worsening problems in the last few years, but the rapidity with which it has degraded is shocking. The rich people and their vitally important tax dollars are never coming back -- Cuomo is literally begging them to come back, and they don't want to. Most of the middle class are jumping ship. My husband's job is WFH and many of his coworkers have moved to other states or regions and aren't coming back. Small businesses have been absolutely decimated. Crime is way up, poverty and homelessness are way up, domestic violence is way up. And because the rich people left and so many other people are unemployed, there's going to be no tax base next year to fix any of these problems. And yet, the lockdowns still won't end, despite extremely low case and death rates for months. The last time NYC was in this bad of a situation, it took over 25 years to recover. My dad is a born and raised NYer and loves NYC, and lived through the 70s/80s there. Even he said he will probably never visit Manhattan again, because it's too unsafe now. Like many people, I'm researching other states to move to.
    janejellyroll wrote: »
    No, it's not. I live in the same culture you do. Nobody is claiming they're a magic shield. Stop being silly.

    Pretty much every pro-lockdowner I know who went to the anti-police brutality protests claimed that there was no way there could be any spread of COVID-19 because "everyone was wearing a mask" (even though photo and video evidence shows that a lot of people weren't). They then accused me of being a racist for saying that COVID-19 could spread at the protests and for showing photos/videos proving that not everyone was wearing a mask or social distancing. I had this argument multiple times with different people.
    slimgirljo15 wrote: »
    Cherry picking the worst of the stories in the news still doesn't detract from the fact that we've done relatively well. Yes, there was a problem initially in those towers with the sudden shut down, but they were sorted as soon as they were bought to light and after a few days many were moved out to other accommodation. Of course nobody wants to be shut in but 2 weeks later they came out of it ok. Life goes on. The government here is doing the best they can, you can't make everyone happy of course but I for one am very proud of how we are doing. It may not stay this way but for now.. I say good job.

    This person claimed that everyone being quarantined was being sent to nice luxury hotels. I posted articles showing that was not the case and now I am being accused of "cherry picking." While, funnily enough, the other person is not accused of "cherry picking" the positive stories. How biased.

    Still, nobody has answered the question I've asked multiple times, of what the endgame is for Australia and New Zealand with their lockdown strategy, since eradication didn't work.
  • cgvet37
    cgvet37 Posts: 1,189 Member
    janejellyroll wrote: »
    cgvet37 wrote: »
    will_it_go_round_in_circles wrote: »
    cgvet37 wrote: »
    Masks do nothing but give a false sense of security. You better wear a respirator, goggles, and gloves. Dispose of gloves before entering your vehicle. Sanitize your car and anything you purchased when you get home. You better take your clothes off in the garage, and immediately take them to the washer. Then take a shower. If not, you are putting a bandaid on a sucking chest wound.

    If security is what you're looking for in a mask then you need to change your expectations. No one has stated that it makes you secure from becoming infected, only that it can help to stem the tide of free floating droplets. It's not an end all by any means. It's helpful. Why not take all the help you can get? You've expended more energy resisting and damning the idea than it would take just to put one one and run to the store.

    I know the limitations of masks. It's conveyed to the masses that they are some sort of magic shield.

    No, it's not. I live in the same culture you do. Nobody is claiming they're a magic shield. Stop being silly.

    Wear your mask and save humanity.
  • BrustMannEiner
    BrustMannEiner Posts: 360 Member
    edited August 2020
    slimgirljo15 wrote: »

    Personally and this is just my opinion I don't care about the "endgame" or what it will be like 2 years down the track. I'm concentrating on the here and now. I'm getting by day by day doing all I can to keep my loved ones safe. I don't believe eradication was on the agenda here just to do what we can to keep the cases as low as we can.
    I can't speak for NZ but I think Australia is doing ok, try not to worry so much about us and our endgame.

    That has basically been my overall point. Hey, all youins across the US, we are doing fine, stop messing with us and worry about yourselves.
  • BrustMannEiner
    BrustMannEiner Posts: 360 Member
    janejellyroll wrote: »
    BrustMannEiner wrote: »
    Ya'll leave me alone and I'll leave you alone. We don't mask around here. The biggest threat, as I see it, to our rural community, is those from more densely populated areas trying to get away from the 'rona and putting us as risk. To those of you leaving the areas you no longer feel safe in and coming to our communities because you need fresh air, I'll regurgitate a statement that others have directed towards us for not wearing a mask, "You're selfish".

    I'd also point out that it's becoming more and more regular that individuals forced to wear masks are complaining about personal health problems they are beginning to experience.

    Masks are not intended to protect me I'm told. Masks are intended to reduce the risk I may infecting others. Social distancing is important I'm told. Well, I'll continue taking personal responsibility for myself and you do the same. Feel free to stay away from those of us who don't wear masks. I do not patronize any place that 'requires' me to wear a mask so I'm doing my part to stay away from you.

    If people from other areas were coming to my town bearing potentially infectious diseases, I'd feel even more strongly about them wearing a mask to help protect me in the situations where I may encounter them. And I'd feel even more strongly about wearing a mask to help protect my friends and neighbors from anything that I might have been exposed to due to the increased traffic in my area.

    As a resolution I agree to disagree with your statement.
  • janejellyroll
    janejellyroll Posts: 25,763 Member
    BrustMannEiner wrote: »
    janejellyroll wrote: »
    BrustMannEiner wrote: »
    Ya'll leave me alone and I'll leave you alone. We don't mask around here. The biggest threat, as I see it, to our rural community, is those from more densely populated areas trying to get away from the 'rona and putting us as risk. To those of you leaving the areas you no longer feel safe in and coming to our communities because you need fresh air, I'll regurgitate a statement that others have directed towards us for not wearing a mask, "You're selfish".

    I'd also point out that it's becoming more and more regular that individuals forced to wear masks are complaining about personal health problems they are beginning to experience.

    Masks are not intended to protect me I'm told. Masks are intended to reduce the risk I may infecting others. Social distancing is important I'm told. Well, I'll continue taking personal responsibility for myself and you do the same. Feel free to stay away from those of us who don't wear masks. I do not patronize any place that 'requires' me to wear a mask so I'm doing my part to stay away from you.

    If people from other areas were coming to my town bearing potentially infectious diseases, I'd feel even more strongly about them wearing a mask to help protect me in the situations where I may encounter them. And I'd feel even more strongly about wearing a mask to help protect my friends and neighbors from anything that I might have been exposed to due to the increased traffic in my area.

    As a resolution I agree to disagree with your statement.

    On any particular grounds? Just disliking masks?
  • laurenq1991
    laurenq1991 Posts: 384 Member
    edited August 2020
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    Italy's new case numbers, adjusted for population, are nothing compared to ours, and their deaths are not even comparable at the moment, they are so much lower.

    The areas of the US that are having surges are areas that never had a first wave in the first place. Italy already had a first wave. So you really can't compare the two. Also, Italy has HIGHER deaths per million than the US (https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/). I know the media loves to act like the US has a way higher death rate than any other country, but that's so untrue.
    The upturn in some European countries hit hard before suggests to me that they are not at herd immunity (which makes it unlikely Sweden is, although I agree its numbers look good currently), and thus that it was the lockdowns that got the numbers under control.

    So the lockdowns just delayed cases and prolonged things, which was exactly my point. Even if Sweden doesn't have herd immunity, which remains to be seen, it still isn't doing much worse deaths-wise than a lot of places that locked down, and it also is doing much better economically and on second-order deaths and negative consequences.
    Reducing total cases until we understand more about the virus and hopefully have treatments that are more effective or a vaccine therefore seems like a good idea.

    Until you consider that the lockdowns kill people too (check out all the sources I posted on my last post).
    IMO, the US has been economically hurt more because we didn't have a more strict lockdown/border closing and instead this is being prolonged with cases at a relatively high level in various places throughout the country.

    Citation needed. We started closing borders in February before many other countries (and were vilified for it at the time).
    I think that was the main reason, but I also think reducing unnecessary deaths from the virus is a good policy. I would say a short lockdown for the purpose of getting cases low enough so that we could trace and quarantine so reduce spread that way (what they did in some other countries) would have been a good thing, but we haven't actually done that. Instead we did this half-kitten thing that is miserable but allows still for extensive community spread many new cases, and thus feels never ending.

    But contact tracing and quarantining just prolongs the pandemic. If hospitals aren't overwhelmed, there isn't much reason to do it. Also, as I already posted, no country has really had a game-changing contact-tracing program. The success of South Korea, for example, probably has a lot more to do with their extremely low obesity rate, considering Japan also has been similarly successful.
    I don't think the difference between places is that alone, no. I think within places some percentage of people not complying is related to the numbers within that place -- people ignoring the rules and having giant house parties, for just one example, I think can cause superspreading events. But this whole X state/country is good, Y state/country is bad is, I think, not a good way to approach the issue.

    And yet you see so many pro-lockdown people saying these kinds of things. You see so many people, even within the US, taking gleeful joy in trashing the US and acting like it's the worst, when factually speaking when you look at the data, it isn't. You see so many people acting like contracting a virus is a moral failing, and equating unknowingly spreading a virus to murder. I thought we got over this regressive and unhelpful behavior during the AIDS pandemic, but apparently not.
    Okay, fair, I was mixing their new cases up with one of the recent spikes in AU. but the fact remains that they have few enough cases that they can address these much more easily than the US can address our cases. I don't get the urge -- and honestly I think it makes the US look foolish -- to act like NZ has something to worry about. We have no hill to stand on here.

    So how do you think NZ will get out of lockdown? Because they already tried eradication once and it failed. And even if they did somehow manage to eradicate it, they'd have to close their borders forever. Even if a vaccine comes, which could take years, no vaccine in history has ever been 100% effective.
    If they get fast and reliable tests, as we seem to have here (although not in adequate numbers right now, they seem mostly to be used for bigwigs, although U of IL is hoping to use them as part of its on campus efforts), then they could use those going forward and not be cutoff.

    But they are testing already. Testing hasn't been a problem in any Western country for months.
    I realize that, and made it clear I was referring to our EARLY response although response time is way too long even now. If you reread what I said, I said that we needed to be doing that early on, when test and trace was still a possibility. Now it seems too late with the level of cases we currently have.

    The thing is, studies indicate that COVID-19 was already community spreading in the US and Europe in November or December 2019, possibly even earlier. We didn't even know that COVID-19 existed until January 2020, and it took time to develop a test for it. There was no way that we could have tested and traced every case under the circumstances, because it was already widespread by the time we could feasibly develop a test, and because of asymptomatic or mildly symptomatic spread.
    Does it matter if Germany is missing a lot of cases if it's cases are as low as they are (as shown by deaths per capita -- a much better way to compare likely cases per country since everyone is missing lots of cases). They are in a position to safely open schools, it seems.

    Well, it depends. If you're one of the pro-lockdown "if it prevents only one death!" type of people, then yeah, it does matter. I'm more of a "look at the situation in aggregate" type of person. And most public health experts believe schools should be reopened even in the US. There really hasn't been a sufficient explanation about why Germany has such a low death rate though. From what I've read, researchers don't really think contact tracing is a huge contributor to it.
    Here's one source: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanchi/article/PIIS2352-4642(20)30251-0/fulltext

    This study took place from January to April. That was months ago. I'm talking about the lockdowns that are going on now.
    Also, the rules you are talking about are Stage 4 rules in place in discrete parts of AU with spiking cases

    It's for the entire state of Victoria. Victoria has 1/4th of the population of Australia (about 6.5 million people out of a total population of about 25.5 million). Other areas are now coming under the same restrictions as well.
    but they are temporary, and for a much shorter time than the shutdowns that parts of the US have been dealing with

    Hey, remember when the US lockdowns were supposed to be "for two weeks to prevent hospitals from being overwhelmed"?
    I personally think that: (1) no more than 5 km from your house, and (2) no more than 1 hour outside make no sense (and may be counterproductive), but that doesn't hurt the economy more than the US style shutdowns would, I wouldn't think.

    It hurts mental and physical health, promotes authoritarian overreach, and does absolutely nothing to stop spread. Especially as it promotes obesity which is one of the top risk factors for dying from COVID-19.
  • laurenq1991
    laurenq1991 Posts: 384 Member
    slimgirljo15 wrote: »
    Personally and this is just my opinion I don't care about the "endgame" or what it will be like 2 years down the track. I'm concentrating on the here and now.

    No offense, but that's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard of in my life. No public policy should ever be enacted without thinking of the long-term effects, especially one as historically unprecedented as this.

  • slimgirljo15
    slimgirljo15 Posts: 269,456 Member
    edited August 2020
    laurenq1991 wrote: »
    slimgirljo15 wrote: »
    Personally and this is just my opinion I don't care about the "endgame" or what it will be like 2 years down the track. I'm concentrating on the here and now.

    No offense, but that's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard of in my life. No public policy should ever be enacted without thinking of the long-term effects, especially one as historically unprecedented as this.

    No offense taken,you're entitled to your opinion of course, as am I.
  • slimgirljo15
    slimgirljo15 Posts: 269,456 Member
    PaperDoll_ wrote: »
    I like Tea Tree face masks. It leaves my skin nice and glowing. It also smells really nice.

    And for the 10 minutes it’s on, I feel like Kermit the Frog. 🐸

    😂 thanks for the laugh
  • mockchoc
    mockchoc Posts: 6,573 Member
    laurenq1991 wrote: »
    mockchoc wrote: »
    [I don't know enough about all the science and stuff but going back to some of your earlier posts about police in Australia being more forceful than perhaps they should be. I don't know if they were over the top or what happened in each case but I would only like to chime in on if people aren't doing anything wrong then tell the police where or what you are doing and then they don't need to be doing more to keep everyone safe. Tell them where you are going etc... Show you are where you are supposed to be and don't lie. How hard is that??? Then we are all helping to get this sorted. I'm in Queensland and not seen some of the stuff you say happen either like slimgirlJo in NSW. Yeah ok maybe it's not on the news. Who knows but do the right thing and we'll get over this crap sooner.

    So you aren't concerned, at all, about the authoritarian overreach that made it illegal to go outside and to make a living, in a matter of weeks, with zero due process? That really doesn't bother you, even a tiny bit?
    ReenieHJ wrote: »
    In order for this to turn around in a major way, compliance has to be 100% and that just isn't going to happen here. :(

    Literally no public health effort ever predicts 100% compliance. It's just not possible. Especially considering what we're asking people to give up -- the things that make us human, like social interaction and work. Trying to beat COVID-19 with lockdowns is like trying to beat the HIV epidemic by banning sex. It just goes against human nature, and the longer it goes on, the less possible it becomes for people to continue. (Which is why suicides and drug overdoses are way up this year!)
    rheddmobile wrote: »
    Yeah, I have a liberal arts degree. They taught me basic math and physics, though, which is why I think it’s bizarre to say that New Zealand is doing worse than we are. You have 133 times the chance of being dead if you live here versus New Zealand. They may have deaths tomorrow, but... physics... a lot can happen between now and tomorrow, while the people in America who are already dead are not suddenly going to come alive again.

    Maybe you should actually read and comprehend the multiple posts I've already made on why New Zealand's strategy is problematic, then. How do you think they are going to get out of this lockdown?

    Do you realise that is why there are sex toys and hands. You Don't have to have sex with others or just do it with your other half and not half of the town. lol
  • lynn_glenmont
    lynn_glenmont Posts: 10,089 Member
    will_it_go_round_in_circles wrote: »
    AliciaHollywood wrote: »
    Here in California it’s a mandate to wear a mask and I’m glad! In the City of West Hollywood they are now fining people for not wearing a mask and I’m glad! All indoor dining in restaurants is closed but they allow outdoor dining with tables 6 feet apart where mask wearing is not mandated but even then I wear a face shield and have learned to eat under the face shield lol. When I go to the beach in a non-crowded area, I take it off, but that’s it. I think if everyone just wore the stupid mask for 14 days, stayed to themselves and didn’t cheat, we would have been over this months ago! dal354tefra5.jpeg

    9xtb5ce8monu.gif

    Matt Damon, put your mask on and keep your hands away from your face!
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