is this abuse? I think it is!
Replies
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Its not abuse, its enabling but he allowed himself to get to that point, we all have choices
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HIs choices made him 900 lbs dont try to blame others... unless he is mentally uncaple of knowing his decions0
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Its not abuse, its enabling but he allowed himself to get to that point, we all have choices
OK we will call it `enabling`
If you had a daughter or son or other family member that got to that stage would you `enable`?
Would you seek help from a medically qualified person?
And when my daughter or son tells them to leave, they don't want help that medically qualified person would turn and leave. Sorry, but I am agreeing with all those who are saying it is simply enabling. You can push and try and get someone to do something, but in the end if they dont' want it then it won't happen. No matter how hard you try to help.0 -
Perhaps a better question, if nobody brought him food or cleaned up with him, would that be neglegence? Are members of his household/family obligated to bring crappy foods for him (if that's all he'll voluntarily eat)?
Would you cut him off?0 -
Absolutely NOT. It is NOT abuse by any meaning of the word. Since when did it become the responsibility of others to make sure someone stays healthy? That actually makes me mad that someone would even consider it to be abuse in the first place. Every single person out there, including myself, is responsible for their own decisions. I needed to lose weight and finally stopped telling myself I was going to and actually did something about it. No one is here holding my hand, making sure that I don't go over my calories, or making sure that I eat better than I did before...I am.
I'm not trying to insult the poster, but if you seriously think that this guy was abused, because someone didn't make him lose his weight, then I would be scared to imagine what kind of other opinions you harbor toward given situations. That's part of the problem with this country now. Everyone wants to be involved in the business of everyone else, but no one wants to take control of their own lives, and mind their own business.
This guy knew the risks, he did nothing to change them, and he paid the price. I hate it for him and his family, but there is NO ONE on Earth to blame but himself.0 -
Well...MyFitnessPal provides an outlet for idiotic comments...so does that mean they are at fault for the worlds stupidity? I mean...they are totally enabling it.0
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Let me give you a scenario...OK?
A man/women over 21 year of age has some psychological issues. The said person has an issue with `cutting` themselves. You are a friend/relative do you give them a blade?
Do you try to help them?
Do you just say `hey it is free will` go ahead and cut yourself?0 -
Let me give you a scenario...OK?
A man/women over 21 year of age has some psychological issues. The said person has an issue with `cutting` themselves. You are a friend/relative do you give them a blade?
Do you try to help them?
Do you just say `hey it is free will` go ahead and cut yourself?
NO of course not but that doesnt meant its abuse. The person make his choice you can try to help them or get them help but if they refuse or deny there disease you arent guilty of abuse0 -
Right, and no matter how much you said " get help" "see this doctor" "stop eating so much" he still said "No". he knew what he was doing and probably knew he did need help. We enable ourselves by eating too much, eating the wrong things and choosing not to excercise. We all do it. We make the CHOICE to change. unless he was proven to be mentally unfit, he did this to himself, and it is no one elses fault but his own. if someone was taking care of him at 900 lbs that is because he allowed himself to get that big in the first place.no one else.0
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And at this point, a medical professional would deem this individual mentally unstable and probably keep them locked up for 72 hours. Not even on the same level as eating yourself to 900 lbs.Let me give you a scenario...OK?
A man/women over 21 year of age has some psychological issues. The said person has an issue with `cutting` themselves. You are a friend/relative do you give them a blade?
Do you try to help them?
Do you just say `hey it is free will` go ahead and cut yourself?0 -
Perhaps a better question, if nobody brought him food or cleaned up with him, would that be neglegence? Are members of his household/family obligated to bring crappy foods for him (if that's all he'll voluntarily eat)?
Would you cut him off?
that's an interesting thought. So it sounds like this guy was from the UK. He was probably on some for of disability which means he may have had some form of adult protective services involved.
If they family had said to him...I'm not enabling you any more and withheld food would that be abuse? What if they continued to clean and turn him, but started offering him portioned controlled, lower calories meals?
I think if they had involved medical care and a physicians consent they would not be held liable.0 -
I haven't seen this show so can't comment on it. But in Canada, there are shows about addicts, hoarders, and others with all kinds of issues. I would say these programs are exploiting these people at the very least, and those of us who watch them are voyeuristic.
I know people say "but it's helpful to others" and I dont' know if that is true or not. I kind of doubt it. I think we watch them because its entertaining, and it makes us feel better about ourselves and our own problems - they seem so minor in comparison. Who wouldn't feel better about being 30 lbs overweight when seeing this poor man?
So abusive? I don't know. What is the line between exploitation and abuse?0 -
I personally agree with Maximus. I think just like with other addictions, you cannot change until you're ready to. Even if forced, you're likely to go right back to your comfort zone - your addiction. You have to want to change yourself for it to make any lasting impact. I do not think anyone should be held responsible for someone else's addiction. And for the person who mentioned the cutting situation - that person will still cut and just hide it - they will find a way. People with addictions will go long lengths to continue their addictions even if loved ones are trying to help. Unfortunately in this case, you need food to survive - so it makes it even harder on an enabler.0
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And at this point, a medical professional would deem this individual mentally unstable and probably keep them locked up for 72 hours. Not even on the same level as eating yourself to 900 lbs.Let me give you a scenario...OK?
A man/women over 21 year of age has some psychological issues. The said person has an issue with `cutting` themselves. You are a friend/relative do you give them a blade?
Do you try to help them?
IN USA can only hold mentally unstable patient if they are a danger to someone else or themselves. You could make argument he was danger to self but i would make argument he already did the damage and no need to hospitalize hi. Those beds should be reserved for suicidal patients that have a future
Do you just say `hey it is free will` go ahead and cut yourself?0 -
Perhaps a better question, if nobody brought him food or cleaned up with him, would that be neglegence? Are members of his household/family obligated to bring crappy foods for him (if that's all he'll voluntarily eat)?
Would you cut him off?
that's an interesting thought. So it sounds like this guy was from the UK. He was probably on some for of disability which means he may have had some form of adult protective services involved.
If they family had said to him...I'm not enabling you any more and withheld food would that be abuse? What if they continued to clean and turn him, but started offering him portioned controlled, lower calories meals?
I think if they had involved medical care and a physicians consent they would not be held liable.
Except that unless he has an actual mental illness that was proven by a doctor, no medical professional would step in forcablly if this man was able to make choices and decisions for himself, thereby his family would not be at fault. They can sugges he get help, they can call 911...but it will not matter. The same scenario goes for EMT and Paramedics who show up at a call, and CLEARLY the patient needs medical assistance, and the patient REFUSES, even after the medics encourage him to seek help. They (by law) have him sign a piece of paper, and they turn and leave. There is nothing else they can do.0 -
Folks, its called free will. Look it up. You can't force the man into therapy. Yuu can't withhold food. He made his choices. He died with them.
Pretty much! Unless he had Prader Willi Syndrome, he made his choices!0 -
Yes but no. If his relatives really cared about him they would have dogged him to seek help. Sadly I see a lot of family and friends enable super-obese people because they think it's unkind or rude to encourage them to lose weight.I don't think you're gonna make a 900 lb man do a damn thing he doesn't want to do
I get the pain here... but Maximus is right. My mother has gone legally blind and, according to her doctor, is slowly decaying and dying because of untreated diabetes and high blood pressure. She lived with us for two years. Short of locking her in her room, we couldn't get her to stop buying/eating junk food - even having it delivered by others during the day. She CHOOSES to eat what she knows is killing her - says she doesn't like being told what to do. I used to "force" her to go to physical therapy - taking time off from work, driving her there and taking her in. She would sit next to the treadmill for an hour with her purse in her hand. Just two months ago, she moved out of my home because she couldn't take "our rules." For someone incapacitated, you CAN limit food intake and you CAN have a counselor/therapist come to the house (at considerable cost). But even the counselor/therapist CAN'T force behavior change.0 -
Let me give you a scenario...OK?
A man/women over 21 year of age has some psychological issues. The said person has an issue with `cutting` themselves. You are a friend/relative do you give them a blade?
Do you try to help them?
Do you just say `hey it is free will` go ahead and cut yourself?
NO of course not but that doesnt meant its abuse. The person make his choice you can try to help them or get them help but if they refuse or deny there disease you arent guilty of abuse
If you give a blade/syringe/loaded gun/food to an addict then IMO you are helping them to feed their addiction and are guilty of abuse.
The person may have made their choice but obviously are not psychologically aware and need some professional help0 -
Right, and no matter how much you said " get help" "see this doctor" "stop eating so much" he still said "No". he knew what he was doing and probably knew he did need help. We enable ourselves by eating too much, eating the wrong things and choosing not to excercise. We all do it. We make the CHOICE to change. unless he was proven to be mentally unfit, he did this to himself, and it is no one elses fault but his own. if someone was taking care of him at 900 lbs that is because he allowed himself to get that big in the first place.no one else.
He may have said NO but if you are physically incapable of choosing, buying, and preparing your own food then who's responsibility does it fall on? I'm required by law to meet certain governmental standards to feed people who are not capable of taking care of themselves. You can believe if someone that large crossed my path I with the physicians would be morally obligated to regulate their food intake while they are in my care despite their protests. Unless it was determined this was end of life care, and maybe that's the point he was at.0 -
Let me give you a scenario...OK?
A man/women over 21 year of age has some psychological issues. The said person has an issue with `cutting` themselves. You are a friend/relative do you give them a blade?
Do you try to help them?
Do you just say `hey it is free will` go ahead and cut yourself?
NO of course not but that doesnt meant its abuse. The person make his choice you can try to help them or get them help but if they refuse or deny there disease you arent guilty of abuse
If you give a blade/syringe/loaded gun/food to an addict then IMO you are helping them to feed their addiction and are guilty of abuse.
The person may have made their choice but obviously are not psychologically aware and need some professional help
Are you really saying that a blade, syringe, or loaded gun are the same thing as food? Last I checked you don't need blades, syringes, or loaded guns for basic survival.0 -
hes the biggest unit ive seen,lets be honest they are talking about what could be done for him when it was obvious he was too far gone.0
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Until he becomes legally insane he can do as he pleases. If he kills himself with food it's his choice.0
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This kind of thing is exactly what's wrong with society...
It's not his fault...blame his family!
It's not his fault...blame mcdonalds!
It's not their fault...blame marilyn manson!
People need to take responsibility for their own actions.0 -
don't yoy thin k its odd he chooses to have tattoos0
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Just turned it on...thank god Family Guy is on soon! Grim as hell...0
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This kind of thing is exactly what's wrong with society...
It's not his fault...blame his family!
It's not his fault...blame mcdonalds!
It's not their fault...blame marilyn manson!
People need to take responsibility for their own actions.
QFR.0 -
IMHO, sorry if this is blunt but in the same way anorexics aren't allowed to starve themselves to death, they get sectioned and force fed when it gets that bad. I believe people shouldn't be allowed to eat themselves to death either. If he was anyone in my family I would have him on a calorie controlled diet until he was mobile and could do it himself.0
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No, I don't think it's abuse since he was a grown man.
That's like saying that drug dealers abuse drug addicts.
Maybe enabling, but not abuse.
People need to learn to take responsibility for their OWN actions. There's too much finger pointing these days.0 -
I never understood how they get the amount of food needed to maintain their weight when they were immobile and bed bound. Who continues the addiction for them?So you're blaming other for his death? That's BS!
Who is feeding him and cleaning up after him? Surely he reached a point where he could not do it for himself?0 -
There is a program about to start in the UK about a guy called Ricky who weighed 896lbs at 39 years old.
Sadly he died, I have not watched the program, but I have read and watched TV of similar situations.
Surely, the people that do not seek help for the person concerned is abusing.
What is your opinion?
It's neglect, and neglect is a form of abuse...... well, if we were talking about a child that would be the case. 39 years old isn't close to being a child. there's a 20 yr old Saudi guy who weighs over 1000lb.... although he's 20, i'd blame his parents in this case* (i.e. it's neglect) because no-one gets that fat in the 2 years since reaching adulthood, to be that fat at 20 you'd have to have an entire childhood of being extremely over-fed. And even where there's a medical reason for the extreme obesity, well the parents should have sought medical help sooner rather than letting him get so fat. But a 39 year old... unless he was mentally handicapped enough as to not be capable of looking after himself, well he should have at the very least asked for medical help (if he tried to get it but wasn't given it then doctors are the ones guilty of neglect). Yes I think that family members absolutely should step in in cases where someone's behaviour is putting them in danger, that's why there's a system to section people and force them to get psychiatric treatment, but I would not call it abuse or neglect, not in the legal sense. Crappy maybe, poorly educated about health, maybe, in some kind of co-dependent relationship, probably... but he's an adult so he could have got help for himself.
*I will say though in relation to the Saudi young man, that having lived in Saudi for 5 years, i know that health education has only been on the curriculum in government funded schools for a couple of years, so his parents may actually not have known better and as girls schools have only existed since the 1960s (prior to that girls didn't get educated) it's actually possible his mother didn't know any better, or understand that excessive feeding was the cause of him being so obese, although it would still constitute neglect on the part of doctors, unless he never saw a doctor before the day they used a crane and forklift to get him out of his house. And believe me there are some total quacks practicing medicine legally in Saudi Arabia, so it's possible that his family doctor was incompetent and wouldn't have been allowed to practice medicine in another country. In any case, I suspect there's a sorry tale behind this Saudi lad's extreme obesity.0
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