is this abuse? I think it is!
Replies
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So you're saying the family should force and withhold? He was grown man. A very large, grown man. Until you're in that situation I dont think you should condemn others over choices he made.
Do you believe in re-feeding for people who are starving themselves to death with anorexia?0 -
What really gets me when we start talking about UK programmes, is the amount of people who jump on ship to slate the programme, without actually having seen it. They jump to conclusions based on the title or some minute detail, and think they know the whole story. Watch the programme first!
I just did, and all the doctors were actually putting alot of the blame onto his Wife, the one who was doing all his shopping/cooking/feeding/caring/cleaning. This man couldn't do anything for himself, so yes actually alot of it was her fault, in my opinion.
Still, the circumstances in which he 'died' were all too fishy if you ask me.0 -
Still, the circumstances in which he 'died' were all too fishy if you ask me.
Maybe she got tired of him "wearing the pants."0 -
Nobody made me fat, I made myself fat!! :noway: I put the food in my mouth, their was no gun pointed at my head to make me eat the food!! Got to love it, it's everybody's else fault attitude society!! :mad:
You are aware that you put the food into your mouth and you were obviously aware that you were eating too much food. Not saying that this applies to the man in the documentary but there are causes of over eating where you do not recognize that you are over eating and there are cases where helpers stock cupboards with food and hold the key to those cupboards and are always present when they are opened so they can control the daily food consumption.
Ok that is an extreme example but it does happen.
Whether you believe the family and friends were enablers/abusers or not, I suspect they may have felt like they were when he died.
But how do you force someone to diet or even get checked out medically if they don't want to. I wonder if they go into detail on the documentary about how much help he was actually offered and turned down?0 -
Still, the circumstances in which he 'died' were all too fishy if you ask me.
Maybe she got tired of him "wearing the pants."
in all fairness to him though...if you look at the pics of him in that link he's not wearing any pants.0 -
Nobody made me fat, I made myself fat!! :noway: I put the food in my mouth, their was no gun pointed at my head to make me eat the food!! Got to love it, it's everybody's else fault attitude society!! :mad:
You are aware that you put the food into your mouth and you were obviously aware that you were eating too much food. Not saying that this applies to the man in the documentary but there are causes of over eating where you do not recognize that you are over eating and there are cases where helpers stock cupboards with food and hold the key to those cupboards and are always present when they are opened so they can control the daily food consumption.
Ok that is an extreme example but it does happen.
Whether you believe the family and friends were enablers/abusers or not, I suspect they may have felt like they were when he died.
But how do you force someone to diet or even get checked out medically if they don't want to. I wonder if they go into detail on the documentary about how much help he was actually offered and turned down?
I dont know the numbers on this, but just from my experience I see a lot of people with mental handicaps who are obese. Specifically with downs My experience has been they have a very strong food drive and in certain institutional or group settings steps have to be made to prevent them from over eating.
PS-no idea about the mental capacity of this guy.0 -
Still, the circumstances in which he 'died' were all too fishy if you ask me.
Maybe she got tired of him "wearing the pants."
in all fairness to him though...if you look at the pics of him in that link he's not wearing any pants.
LOL :laugh:
Well his metaphorical pants.0 -
This kind of thing is exactly what's wrong with society...
It's not his fault...blame his family!
It's not his fault...blame mcdonalds!
It's not their fault...blame marilyn manson!
People need to take responsibility for their own actions.
this one wins! and OP, as a former cutter, still very much a masochist, and a proud one. I was the one that decided to cut. my parents didn't hand me the blade and say go nuts. It was my free will. I chose to do it. I can't wear sleeveless shirts or dresses, but that's MY fault. Not the people that make the blades, not my family that knew about it, mine. They are my battle scars. I've been through terrible ****, and I survived.0 -
If he was anyone in my family I would...
Have you ever tried to force someone in your family into getting help for a psychiatric problem when they didn't want to change?0 -
I haven't seen this show so can't comment on it. But in Canada, there are shows about addicts, hoarders, and others with all kinds of issues. I would say these programs are exploiting these people at the very least, and those of us who watch them are voyeuristic.
I know people say "but it's helpful to others" and I dont' know if that is true or not. I kind of doubt it. I think we watch them because its entertaining, and it makes us feel better about ourselves and our own problems - they seem so minor in comparison. Who wouldn't feel better about being 30 lbs overweight when seeing this poor man?
So abusive? I don't know. What is the line between exploitation and abuse?
This is a bit off topic, but I do watch shows about hoarders, addictions, etc. I think that part of it is for the "shock" value but also watching to see how the counselors handle these people. I have been so impressed at the patience, especially with the hoarders. Ex. " Jim, is it okay if we donate this article of clothing?," when the whole house is full of trash. The counselors encourage the hoarder to talk about what the article means to them, have them take a couple of deep breaths and then know when it is too much anxiety for the hoarder and ask them to stop. I just watch in amazement!
ON topic, I feel sorry for that man. Yes, he did have enablers---had to have them! At 900 pounds, he was out of breath with any small amount of movement. He wasn't walking to the refrigerator, you know. Someone was bringing him food. At some point, someone should have encouraged him to seek counseling, maybe when he was 400 pounds? At 650 +, he was probably no longer a candidate for gastric bypass--there is a point when some life saving choices are taken away, because he was at the point of no return.0 -
So you're blaming other for his death? That's BS!
Who is feeding him and cleaning up after him? Surely he reached a point where he could not do it for himself?
I saw that program. His wife is an enabler and just as sick as he is. It's like giving money to a drug addict. Not sure if it's technically abuse, but it's definitely not cool. They both need help.0 -
Absolutely NOT. It is NOT abuse by any meaning of the word. Since when did it become the responsibility of others to make sure someone stays healthy? That actually makes me mad that someone would even consider it to be abuse in the first place. Every single person out there, including myself, is responsible for their own decisions. I needed to lose weight and finally stopped telling myself I was going to and actually did something about it. No one is here holding my hand, making sure that I don't go over my calories, or making sure that I eat better than I did before...I am.
I'm not trying to insult the poster, but if you seriously think that this guy was abused, because someone didn't make him lose his weight, then I would be scared to imagine what kind of other opinions you harbor toward given situations. That's part of the problem with this country now. Everyone wants to be involved in the business of everyone else, but no one wants to take control of their own lives, and mind their own business.
This guy knew the risks, he did nothing to change them, and he paid the price. I hate it for him and his family, but there is NO ONE on Earth to blame but himself.
FTW0 -
Well...MyFitnessPal provides an outlet for idiotic comments...so does that mean they are at fault for the worlds stupidity? I mean...they are totally enabling it.
lol.. more WIN.0 -
I haven't seen this show so can't comment on it. But in Canada, there are shows about addicts, hoarders, and others with all kinds of issues. I would say these programs are exploiting these people at the very least, and those of us who watch them are voyeuristic.
I know people say "but it's helpful to others" and I dont' know if that is true or not. I kind of doubt it. I think we watch them because its entertaining, and it makes us feel better about ourselves and our own problems - they seem so minor in comparison. Who wouldn't feel better about being 30 lbs overweight when seeing this poor man?
I don't watch those shows. I watched Hoarders for awhile, but I always felt gross afterwards. That's really just not the sort of thing I want to invite into my life. Now I watch extreme yachts instead. lol0 -
I think its a form of neglect not exactly abuse per se.0
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You cannot force anyone to help themselves. Like judges who order people with a DUI or whatever charge to go to rehab or attend AA. It is meaningless and there will be no change until the person with the problem addresses it on their own.0
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Abuse implies that his caretakers maliciously force fed him, and fattened him up until he died. It was was not abuse.
Did they enable him? Yup, they sure did, and that's not right. But, still... it's not "abuse". Enabling =/= abuse.0 -
Except that unless he has an actual mental illness that was proven by a doctor, no medical professional would step in forcablly if this man was able to make choices and decisions for himself, thereby his family would not be at fault. They can sugges he get help, they can call 911...but it will not matter. The same scenario goes for EMT and Paramedics who show up at a call, and CLEARLY the patient needs medical assistance, and the patient REFUSES, even after the medics encourage him to seek help. They (by law) have him sign a piece of paper, and they turn and leave. There is nothing else they can do.
This!
My mother wouldn't let the ambulance take her after she'd had a stroke. She was still logical and coherent and she refused help so they wouldn't take her. We sat there for an hour working on convincing her she needed to go, and finally she did, but the emergency responders couldn't do a thing until she agreed.0 -
I wouldn't be seeking help from a mecically qualified person....."They would" ....its called taking responsibility for your own life if you want to live. Its a choice and again like I said before we all have it. everyday I wake up making a choice to either workout or give in..my life is hard too..I don't always have the best foods but I have to choose between what I have..I was 300lb damn near I could have just said to heck with it all and just kept gaining myself but I decided to live life and not give up...its just a choice some people give up...its no ones fault but their own. Unless they care a child.Its not abuse, its enabling but he allowed himself to get to that point, we all have choices
OK we will call it `enabling`
If you had a daughter or son or other family member that got to that stage would you `enable`?
Would you seek help from a medically qualified person?0 -
Right, and no matter how much you said " get help" "see this doctor" "stop eating so much" he still said "No". he knew what he was doing and probably knew he did need help. We enable ourselves by eating too much, eating the wrong things and choosing not to excercise. We all do it. We make the CHOICE to change. unless he was proven to be mentally unfit, he did this to himself, and it is no one elses fault but his own. if someone was taking care of him at 900 lbs that is because he allowed himself to get that big in the first place.no one else.
He may have said NO but if you are physically incapable of choosing, buying, and preparing your own food then who's responsibility does it fall on? I'm required by law to meet certain governmental standards to feed people who are not capable of taking care of themselves. You can believe if someone that large crossed my path I with the physicians would be morally obligated to regulate their food intake while they are in my care despite their protests. Unless it was determined this was end of life care, and maybe that's the point he was at.
Well you sound like you're speaking as a health care professional. Legally you probably have to operate within certain standards, but someone's family members don't, and obviously a giant person isn't legally obligated to regulate themselves in any way.0 -
This kind of thing is exactly what's wrong with society...
It's not his fault...blame his family!
It's not his fault...blame mcdonalds!
It's not their fault...blame marilyn manson!
People need to take responsibility for their own actions.
this one wins! and OP, as a former cutter, still very much a masochist, and a proud one. I was the one that decided to cut. my parents didn't hand me the blade and say go nuts. It was my free will. I chose to do it. I can't wear sleeveless shirts or dresses, but that's MY fault. Not the people that make the blades, not my family that knew about it, mine. They are my battle scars. I've been through terrible ****, and I survived.
Let's say (like the big man) you're bound to bed and you positively can't get anywhere. Since you still want to cut yourself, you need somebody to bring you the blade, so you ask your parents. If your parents bring you the blade (even though they really don't have to) then they are enablers.
As long as you can get yourself the blade then your parents have nothing to do with it. But as soon as you depend on them to bring you the blade, they share the blame if they do.0 -
This kind of thing is exactly what's wrong with society...
It's not his fault...blame his family!
It's not his fault...blame mcdonalds!
It's not their fault...blame marilyn manson!
People need to take responsibility for their own actions.
this one wins! and OP, as a former cutter, still very much a masochist, and a proud one. I was the one that decided to cut. my parents didn't hand me the blade and say go nuts. It was my free will. I chose to do it. I can't wear sleeveless shirts or dresses, but that's MY fault. Not the people that make the blades, not my family that knew about it, mine. They are my battle scars. I've been through terrible ****, and I survived.
Let's say (like the big man) you're bound to bed and you positively can't get anywhere. Since you still want to cut yourself, you need somebody to bring you the blade, so you ask your parents. If your parents bring you the blade (even though they really don't have to) then they are enablers.
As long as you can get yourself the blade then your parents have nothing to do with it. But as soon as you depend on them to bring you the blade, they share the blame if they do.
Which rightfully makes somebody an "enabler". It's not "abuse" as originally stated. And enablers shouldn't be taking all the blame. Even in your scenario...it's still the cutters choice ultimately.
The majority of this argument has been "its his fault" vs. "it's everyone else's fault for enabling". You can't honestly say his wife/family wasn't enabling him...however with it being ultimately his choice HE should take 98% of the blame.0 -
Right, and no matter how much you said " get help" "see this doctor" "stop eating so much" he still said "No". he knew what he was doing and probably knew he did need help. We enable ourselves by eating too much, eating the wrong things and choosing not to excercise. We all do it. We make the CHOICE to change. unless he was proven to be mentally unfit, he did this to himself, and it is no one elses fault but his own. if someone was taking care of him at 900 lbs that is because he allowed himself to get that big in the first place.no one else.
He may have said NO but if you are physically incapable of choosing, buying, and preparing your own food then who's responsibility does it fall on? I'm required by law to meet certain governmental standards to feed people who are not capable of taking care of themselves. You can believe if someone that large crossed my path I with the physicians would be morally obligated to regulate their food intake while they are in my care despite their protests. Unless it was determined this was end of life care, and maybe that's the point he was at.
Well you sound like you're speaking as a health care professional. Legally you probably have to operate within certain standards, but someone's family members don't, and obviously a giant person isn't legally obligated to regulate themselves in any way.
No youre right there is no legal obligation for him to care for himself. Although if he was incapacitated then his wife took on the role as caregiver and was under a legal obligation to ensure he was clean, fed, turned, and hydrated.
Still sad though as I'm sure he couldnt make the choice to say NO due to his addiction. Someone that obese is truly in need of help.0 -
I've struggled for several years with binge eating. I can go to town on candy/sweets/greasy food and put away 5/6/7k calories in a day without any real issue.
I've never once felt like my family was "enabling" because they baked a tray of brownies or ordered pizza. I choose to overeat. Nobody forces me to overeat. Often times I get yelled/lectured for it...I also feel like crap afterward...but it doesn't change the fact that the next time the opportunity arises I'm probably going to choose to do it.
I blame myself and ONLY myself for my weight.0 -
I've struggled for several years with binge eating. I can go to town on candy/sweets/greasy food and put away 5/6/7k calories in a day without any real issue.
I've never once felt like my family was "enabling" because they baked a tray of brownies or ordered pizza. I choose to overeat. Nobody forces me to overeat. Often times I get yelled/lectured for it...I also feel like crap afterward...but it doesn't change the fact that the next time the opportunity arises I'm probably going to choose to do it.
I blame myself and ONLY myself for my weight.
I'm much like you I have a severe binge eating compulsion. It takes a lot to fight those demons, and although I never say oh my Mom made me fat or the mean kids at school made me fat. I still feel there is some culpability in the way i was raised, how I learned to comfort myself with food, possibly the lack of counseling I needed as a teen, and the cruelty from the men in my life. Environmentally cheap caloric rich/nutrient dense food is very easy to obtain, and I grew up where walking can be a scary experience.
I dont blame per se, but I've accepted that there are things I have to come to terms with from my life and will need to take the constant criticism from my mind realizing that some of those hateful thoughts were put there by others if I ever want to learn how to love myself and manage this addiction.0 -
There is a program about to start in the UK about a guy called Ricky who weighed 896lbs at 39 years old.
Sadly he died, I have not watched the program, but I have read and watched TV of similar situations.
Surely, the people that do not seek help for the person concerned is abusing.
What is your opinion?
My opinion is that its probably a good idea to see the program first before forming an opinion.
A lot of people decried "Biggest Loser" in Australia for being exploitative and voyeuristic. However, those criticisms came mainly from those who did not watch the program. For the first time ever, I watched the Australian "Biggest Loser" program this year and I felt it was inspiring - or it was inspiring for me.
It just could be that the documentary on Ricky may actually be about giving Ricky a voice, shedding a light on the 'obesity epidemic' and raising people's awareness. It could have been done for completely altruistic reasons or a combination of altruism and the selfish. Maybe its a good idea to suspend judgement until its been screened and viewed.
kind regards,
Ben0 -
You seem to be confusing the words "abuse" and "neglect," and "neglect" implies a "duty" to provide for the individual discussed.
ETA: These concepts are the basis for laws of more than one nation on this subject. It is difficult to go anywhere with this subject without an understanding of these.0 -
I've struggled for several years with binge eating. I can go to town on candy/sweets/greasy food and put away 5/6/7k calories in a day without any real issue.
I've never once felt like my family was "enabling" because they baked a tray of brownies or ordered pizza. I choose to overeat. Nobody forces me to overeat. Often times I get yelled/lectured for it...I also feel like crap afterward...but it doesn't change the fact that the next time the opportunity arises I'm probably going to choose to do it.
I blame myself and ONLY myself for my weight.
I'm much like you I have a severe binge eating compulsion. It takes a lot to fight those demons, and although I never say oh my Mom made me fat or the mean kids at school made me fat. I still feel there is some culpability in the way i was raised, how I learned to comfort myself with food, possibly the lack of counseling I needed as a teen, and the cruelty from the men in my life. Environmentally cheap caloric rich/nutrient dense food is very easy to obtain, and I grew up where walking can be a scary experience.
I dont blame per se, but I've accepted that there are things I have to come to terms with from my life and will need to take the constant criticism from my mind realizing that some of those hateful thoughts were put there by others if I ever want to learn how to love myself and manage this addiction.
I can understand that to a point...but it's still ultimately your choice. I have never had "demons" that made me eat. I didn't grow up being stuffed full of comfort foods when I was upset. My mom cooked a home cooked meal from scratch almost every day. Sure we had the occasional pizza or fast food....but it was pretty rare. We didn't keep soda or much junk food in the house. I ate my vegetables pretty well and usually enjoyed them.0 -
'999'
Which emergency service please?
Police
What is the nature of your emergency?
Someone is fat!
Why is this an emergency?
They're fat and they don't care about the damage they're doing to their body. Can't you do something? Oh, the humanity!
Goodbye, sir.0 -
'999'
Which emergency service please?
Police
What is the nature of your emergency?
Someone is fat!
Why is this an emergency?
They're fat and they don't care about the damage they're doing to their body. Can't you do something? Oh, the humanity!
Goodbye, sir.
So what you're saying is that you don't deliver pizza?0
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