is this abuse? I think it is!
Replies
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Until they make morbid obesity a psychological disorder it is enabling not abuse. If you are caring for someone you should make all efforts to ensure they eat properly but if they are mentally stable and not children then it may be morally wrong but not legally wrong to give them what they like. We all make choices and some of those choices are not good. It is far past time that we all start to take some responsibility for what we choose to do. No one made that man get fat, no one made any of us get fat, no one chose what he put in his mouth or what you put in your mouth but you. This goes for all things too not just food. The government, the laws, your family, your friends, your coworkers, the banks, the corporations do not make you do anything. Your choices put you where you are and only your choices can get you where you want to be.0
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I get the pain here... but Maximus is right. My mother has gone legally blind and, according to her doctor, is slowly decaying and dying because of untreated diabetes and high blood pressure. She lived with us for two years. Short of locking her in her room, we couldn't get her to stop buying/eating junk food - even having it delivered by others during the day. She CHOOSES to eat what she knows is killing her - says she doesn't like being told what to do. I used to "force" her to go to physical therapy - taking time off from work, driving her there and taking her in. She would sit next to the treadmill for an hour with her purse in her hand. Just two months ago, she moved out of my home because she couldn't take "our rules." For someone incapacitated, you CAN limit food intake and you CAN have a counselor/therapist come to the house (at considerable cost). But even the counselor/therapist CAN'T force behavior change.
Wow, not an easy situation you were in, and with uncontrolled diabetes it makes that food seeking drive so much more difficult. I commend you for continuing to persist and encouraging her to eat right and get the therapy she needs. It doesn't seem like you balked at her demands and let her not take care of herself because you love her dearly and want the best.
I hope she will get the help she needs one day. Does she know that the next step in her care is possibly a nursing home?
Oh and your right you cannot force behavior change...anyone who is trying to be healthier should know that. I just think the point being made is you wouldnt continue to enable the death of your family member.0 -
Let me give you a scenario...OK?
A man/women over 21 year of age has some psychological issues. The said person has an issue with `cutting` themselves. You are a friend/relative do you give them a blade?
Do you try to help them?
Do you just say `hey it is free will` go ahead and cut yourself?
NO of course not but that doesnt meant its abuse. The person make his choice you can try to help them or get them help but if they refuse or deny there disease you arent guilty of abuse
If you give a blade/syringe/loaded gun/food to an addict then IMO you are helping them to feed their addiction and are guilty of abuse.
The person may have made their choice but obviously are not psychologically aware and need some professional help
Are you really saying that a blade, syringe, or loaded gun are the same thing as food? Last I checked you don't need blades, syringes, or loaded guns for basic survival.
It seems you can die by gluttony/food0 -
If I were his family member I would subject him to tough love. If he can't move, let alone get a job to feed himself, then he eats whatever low calorie meal I give him. If he doesn't like it, then he either lose enough weight to be mobile again, or find someone else to take care of him. If he's bent on killing himself, I would not have any part in it.0
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Bump for later.0
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Let me give you a scenario...OK?
A man/women over 21 year of age has some psychological issues. The said person has an issue with `cutting` themselves. You are a friend/relative do you give them a blade?
Do you try to help them?
Do you just say `hey it is free will` go ahead and cut yourself?
NO of course not but that doesnt meant its abuse. The person make his choice you can try to help them or get them help but if they refuse or deny there disease you arent guilty of abuse
If you give a blade/syringe/loaded gun/food to an addict then IMO you are helping them to feed their addiction and are guilty of abuse.
The person may have made their choice but obviously are not psychologically aware and need some professional help
Are you really saying that a blade, syringe, or loaded gun are the same thing as food? Last I checked you don't need blades, syringes, or loaded guns for basic survival.
It seems you can die by gluttony/food
You can also die from water, medicine, & exercise.
What's your point?0 -
No, it's not abuse. Letting yourself get to a point where you require others to take care of you, wipe your *kitten* for you, bathe you, is abusive. I am sorry he died but he did it to himself.
ETA: If a junkie dies is the family abusive for not stopping him?0 -
I never understood how they get the amount of food needed to maintain their weight when they were immobile and bed bound. Who continues the addiction for them?So you're blaming other for his death? That's BS!
Who is feeding him and cleaning up after him? Surely he reached a point where he could not do it for himself?
It would seem the `enablers` go figure IMO shocking!0 -
I say its abuse.... he abused himself.. Wow I know when my depression was really back in my early 30s, I ballooned to almost 300 lbs. My parents tried to help me, they were trying to get me to eat healthy and lose weight but I didn't want to hear any of it. I would order pizza and hide it from them because I didn't want to hear the lecture. I hate to say it but back than the only person that was doing the abusing was myself. Its the same with him... luckily for me some how I realized what I was doing and changed my outlook.0
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Let me give you a scenario...OK?
A man/women over 21 year of age has some psychological issues. The said person has an issue with `cutting` themselves. You are a friend/relative do you give them a blade?
Do you try to help them?
Do you just say `hey it is free will` go ahead and cut yourself?
NO of course not but that doesnt meant its abuse. The person make his choice you can try to help them or get them help but if they refuse or deny there disease you arent guilty of abuse
If you give a blade/syringe/loaded gun/food to an addict then IMO you are helping them to feed their addiction and are guilty of abuse.
The person may have made their choice but obviously are not psychologically aware and need some professional help
Are you really saying that a blade, syringe, or loaded gun are the same thing as food? Last I checked you don't need blades, syringes, or loaded guns for basic survival.
It seems you can die by gluttony/food
You can also die from water, medicine, & exercise.
What's your point?
Did anyone give him the option of water, medicine & exercise?
My point is if Ricky was your BF (best friend) would you have abused sorry `Enabled` would you have continued to feed him or tried to help him0 -
Let me give you a scenario...OK?
A man/women over 21 year of age has some psychological issues. The said person has an issue with `cutting` themselves. You are a friend/relative do you give them a blade?
Do you try to help them?
Do you just say `hey it is free will` go ahead and cut yourself?
NO of course not but that doesnt meant its abuse. The person make his choice you can try to help them or get them help but if they refuse or deny there disease you arent guilty of abuse
If you give a blade/syringe/loaded gun/food to an addict then IMO you are helping them to feed their addiction and are guilty of abuse.
The person may have made their choice but obviously are not psychologically aware and need some professional help
Are you really saying that a blade, syringe, or loaded gun are the same thing as food? Last I checked you don't need blades, syringes, or loaded guns for basic survival.
It seems you can die by gluttony/food
You can also die from water, medicine, & exercise.
What's your point?
Did anyone give him the option of water, medicine & exercise?
My point is if Ricky was your BF (best friend) would you have abused sorry `Enabled` would you have continued to feed him or tried to help him
Ok I'm guessing you didn't get my point.
Food, water, medicine, exercise = generally good
Syringes, blades, loaded guns = potentially bad
Does that make any of them inherently dangerous? Absolutely not. Every single one of those things is perfectly safe if used properly. Blaming someones family and saying its abuse is the same as saying that someone who uses their insulin needle to shoot heroin was abused by the pharmacist that gave it to them.0 -
No, I don't think it's abuse since he was a grown man.
That's like saying that drug dealers abuse drug addicts.
Maybe enabling, but not abuse.
People need to learn to take responsibility for their OWN actions. There's too much finger pointing these days.
I agree that there is too much finger pointing and everyone seems to be suing everyone else at the moment.
My current pet hate is: Its the teachers or the child carers responsibility that the child is badly behaved.
People should take responsibility for their actions, however, I have not seen the program, but there will always be exceptions to the rule, did this guy have an underlying condition that remained un-diagnosed? There are medical causes for over eating where the person has little or no control, in fact that is one of the symptoms of Prader Willi Syndrorme for example and I would guess there are others.0 -
My husband smokes, i wish he would quit and would be willing to do whatever he needs to help him. Unfortunately, it has to be his decision, there is nothing i can do to make him quit. (although if anyone knows of something please let me know!)
I think gaining weight is a lot like that, it has to be the decision of the person going through it, they have to Want it.0 -
It seems to me that the OP of this thread wants to blame everyone else for this guy's choices except the guy himself. The OP talks about enablers. Maybe we should stop posting on this thread and stop being enablers to this type of thinking... Just sayin...0
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It seems to me that the OP of this thread wants to blame everyone else for this guy's choices except the guy himself. The OP talks about enablers. Maybe we should stop posting on this thread and stop being enablers to this type of thinking... Just sayin...
I like your train of thought...but by not correcting the OP wouldn't we be enabling stupidity?0 -
IMHO, sorry if this is blunt but in the same way anorexics aren't allowed to starve themselves to death, they get sectioned and force fed when it gets that bad. I believe people shouldn't be allowed to eat themselves to death either. If he was anyone in my family I would have him on a calorie controlled diet until he was mobile and could do it himself.
Have you seen the documentary Thin? It follows several women's struggle with eating disorders in a professional facility. Spoiler- Each woman died of their addictions even with amazing professional help. They all went right back to their eating disorder even after graduating the program. An addict has to be willing to change themselves.
**Edit** I do think that longer treatment time could possibly change the sad results in these cases. Though treatment is extremely expensive, and often insurance will only cover so much time.0 -
It seems to me that the OP of this thread wants to blame everyone else for this guy's choices except the guy himself. The OP talks about enablers. Maybe we should stop posting on this thread and stop being enablers to this type of thinking... Just sayin...
I like your train of thought...but by not correcting the OP wouldn't we be enabling stupidity?
Um, that's pretty vicious. How is raising a question to the responsibility of an incapacitated individual considered stupid?
At some point this man could not reasonably make his own choices without aid which is the reason why he weighed almost 900lbs he wasnt completely cognizant to the damage he was inflicting upon his body.0 -
^^^ good example...another one that should be pretty pertinent to the discussion at hand...The Biggest Loser. There has been quite a bit of controversy surrounding the fact that many of the participants gained all the weight back after the show.
As someone who has struggled with binge eating for several years...I definitely understand the feeling of "gotta lose weight and be a fitness guru!" and the inevitable feeling of "f*** it I want pizza" that usually follows a few months later.0 -
Nobody made me fat, I made myself fat!! :noway: I put the food in my mouth, their was no gun pointed at my head to make me eat the food!! Got to love it, it's everybody's else fault attitude society!! :mad:0
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It seems to me that the OP of this thread wants to blame everyone else for this guy's choices except the guy himself. The OP talks about enablers. Maybe we should stop posting on this thread and stop being enablers to this type of thinking... Just sayin...
I like your train of thought...but by not correcting the OP wouldn't we be enabling stupidity?
I thought this was a topic for debate, so really doesn't need to end up in personal insults0 -
It seems to me that the OP of this thread wants to blame everyone else for this guy's choices except the guy himself. The OP talks about enablers. Maybe we should stop posting on this thread and stop being enablers to this type of thinking... Just sayin...
I like your train of thought...but by not correcting the OP wouldn't we be enabling stupidity?
Um, that's pretty vicious. How is raising a question to the responsibility of an incapacitated individual considered stupid?
At some point this man could not reasonably make his own choices without aid which is the reason why he weighed almost 900lbs he wasnt completely cognizant to the damage he was inflicting upon his body.
I wouldn't say its vicious at all. I never said that the original POST was stupid. I never said the OP was stupid. I said that we were enabling stupidity. In that case I'm referencing the resulting argument *for* the verdict of abuse.0 -
*** waits for message in my inbox with a warning ***0
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It seems to me that the OP of this thread wants to blame everyone else for this guy's choices except the guy himself. The OP talks about enablers. Maybe we should stop posting on this thread and stop being enablers to this type of thinking... Just sayin...
I like your train of thought...but by not correcting the OP wouldn't we be enabling stupidity?
Um, that's pretty vicious. How is raising a question to the responsibility of an incapacitated individual considered stupid?
At some point this man could not reasonably make his own choices without aid which is the reason why he weighed almost 900lbs he wasnt completely cognizant to the damage he was inflicting upon his body.
He put the food in his mouth, nobody else did!! He could have just said no or didn't eat it!! So he did make choices, bad choices!!0 -
It seems to me that the OP of this thread wants to blame everyone else for this guy's choices except the guy himself. The OP talks about enablers. Maybe we should stop posting on this thread and stop being enablers to this type of thinking... Just sayin...
This!!! ^^^^0 -
It seems to me that the OP of this thread wants to blame everyone else for this guy's choices except the guy himself. The OP talks about enablers. Maybe we should stop posting on this thread and stop being enablers to this type of thinking... Just sayin...
I like your train of thought...but by not correcting the OP wouldn't we be enabling stupidity?
Um, that's pretty vicious. How is raising a question to the responsibility of an incapacitated individual considered stupid?
At some point this man could not reasonably make his own choices without aid which is the reason why he weighed almost 900lbs he wasnt completely cognizant to the damage he was inflicting upon his body.
He put the food in his mouth, nobody else did!! He could have just said no or didn't eat it!! So he did make choices, bad choices!!
Exactly.
The fact is...I agree that people shouldn't be bringing him pizza and cookies. Does that mean they are responsible for his weight? No. He chose to eat it.
That's like saying "Well...they built a McDonalds right down the street from him...so McDonald's is an enabler".0 -
You can take a horse to water but you can't make the horse drink... and the opposite applies...
Or you'd be arguing that for all cases where people die of illnesses because they won't take their medicine because they don't like the tase/side effects...but itll make them better...0 -
he ate himself to death. blaming others is like blaming other people for alcoholics. I begged my dad to stop drinking. he'd drink 6 40 oz beers a day for nearly 8 years. he died 9 years ago due to cirrhosis of liver. is it my fault? no. he killed himself. There was a tremendous lack of self control. It's why we're all on this site. To regain our self control before we kill ourselves. Unless he was strapped into a bed with a funnel shoved down his throat and his friends and family stuffing food into him, no, it's not abuse. No one shoved high calorie, non nutrient food into my mouth. I did it. I chose cake over salad. i'm fat because of poor diet and playing xbox rather than exercising. he was responsible for his eating habits, weight, and death.0
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It is a very difficult situation to be in and obviously we don't know how we would behave in those circumstances. My own feeling is that yes he has made the choice and is responsible for his own death - he knew the consequences. I have not watched the programme so I dont' know who was getting the food for him, I don't think in those circumstances I would get the food for him - I would get what he would need for health and life but not the quantity and kind of food that was killing him. If he got it himself then there is nothing to be done about that. Let's hope - all of us that we never find ourselves in that situation either as the vastly overweight person or the relative that has to provide care and let's not be too hasty to pass judgement on those who are.0
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I see choices choice you make the choice its you all will power if you fail its your own fault blah blah same pull yourself up by the boot strap rhetoric.
It's not working! 95% of us who have ever suffered a weight problem will fail!
There is something more going on here. This is now a world wide epidemic. Over a quarter of the American population is fat, Mexico has surpassed us in fatness, Samoans follow closely behind, along with the rich oil middle east countries. Everywhere you look if there is readily accessible caloric dense/nutrient poor food you will see obesity.
Maybe it's time to think a bit beyond the basic youre fat cause you eat thought and look at what is really going on here.
We should all be very fearful about the future ramifications of this epidemic instead of just blowing it off as a personal choice thing.
PS-I have no answers. All I can do is take it from an individual stance and try to help those around me.0 -
For the record...here's a link to a story about him and his TLC special.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2329291/900lbs-desperate-lose-weight-New-documentary-follows-morbidly-obese-man-race-life-saving-surgery.html
And here are just a few quotes from the article:Mrs Naputi too is feeling some guilt as she prepares a chicken dish in the kitchen.
'I know for a fact I'm going to get scolded,' she says. 'No matter how much I try, I always tend to give in to my husband. It's really hard! My husband wears the pants in this relationship you know.'
I don't know about you...but that sounds like someone who tried NOT to enable. And there are a lot of relationships still where the man "wears the pants" and makes the decisions and the women don't have much of a say in the matter. Obviously that's not the way it should be...but why are we demonizing his wife?Mr Naputi was already morbidly obese when he met his wife, Cheryl. The couple have now been together for a decade
Yet more evidence to it being HIS fault.0
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