Imagining Our Bodies as a Relational Construct: You and Me

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  • ddsb1111
    ddsb1111 Posts: 869 Member
    shel80kg wrote: »
    Ok...I trusted my body and the popcorn debacle "worked itself out"...or rather, my body did what it needed to do and I have actually lost more weight than I thought. So....the learnings "Grasshopper" is don't obsess when we take a deviation from the pulpit. We are human and need to make mistakes so we can learn about ourselves. I don't need to consume as much "naughty" food as I did a couple of days ago and my body does not deserve to be put on the spot to have to redeem me. It did a great job and I am thankful. But,,,,,,I must have put it in a bit of a pickle having to get rid of so much salt so I will try and be more mindful moving forward. Can't be all or nothing. Not a good idea.

    I really enjoy your musings. I agree with your previous comments about strange concerns, because as individuals, we see what other people do as strange, but it’s not inherently strange when we do anything 😆.

    When you were having a full blown conversation with yourself about popcorn, I thought, who cares? (As in, it’s no problem!). Sometimes you need to have popcorn in order to maintain some sort of equilibrium and to keep going. There is no naughty food or mistakes. There’s balance and harmony. When your body regulates hormones and temperature there’s a range for homeostasis. It’s not- be this exact ideal perfect number everyday or you will die! We have a range and the goal is to maintain balance over time. No need to create problems that don’t exist, that’s letting your old thinking get in your way.

    Dieting doesn’t have to be an existential crisis, know what I mean? When I got back from vacation, and had gained 5 lbs, I wasn’t disappointed because I knew what happened and I knew what to do to autocorrect. If anything those lbs were permission to live my life. And, when I got back, I gave myself permission to settle into being home and get back on track. Have I always been this way? No. I had to learn I wasn’t an outlier, victim, or special snowflake, and touching food didn’t make me blow up and gain 1000 lbs. It took me using data to get the facts straight. And I, personally, can’t argue with the facts. Once I understood that, I could lean on data and not allow my low self-esteem or poor self-worth to tell me lies anymore.

    I just wanted to tell you everything is going to be okay, you’re doing great. Put your trust into the science so it doesn’t have to be so personal. Will power, self-confidence, and motivation, wax and wane and can’t be trusted. Stick to your balanced plan and take as long as it takes. It’s not like we’re going anywhere 🩷.
  • shel80kg
    shel80kg Posts: 161 Member
    Dieting doesn’t have to be an existential crisis, know what I mean?

    Love it. I sounded like "eldorko" making popcorn my biggest problem of the weekend. Thanks for making me laugh; but more seriously, put things in perspective. Now...potato chips....that's a different story. JUST KIDDING.
  • ddsb1111
    ddsb1111 Posts: 869 Member
    shel80kg wrote: »
    Dieting doesn’t have to be an existential crisis, know what I mean?

    Love it. I sounded like "eldorko" making popcorn my biggest problem of the weekend. Thanks for making me laugh; but more seriously, put things in perspective. Now...potato chips....that's a different story. JUST KIDDING.

    😆

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  • shel80kg
    shel80kg Posts: 161 Member
    Your cat is my hero!
  • PAV8888
    PAV8888 Posts: 14,238 Member
    edited November 2023
    I need that cat (trained for chocolates and cookies and...)!
  • shel80kg
    shel80kg Posts: 161 Member
    Cat got your chips?

    Seriously, low energy today and just wondering if my Ketosis body needs a bit of sugary fuel? I am trying to do the “right” think but feel like an old man today. Wait, I’m 64…Am I being realistic?
    Oh well, one of those days .
  • ddsb1111
    ddsb1111 Posts: 869 Member
    shel80kg wrote: »
    Cat got your chips?

    Seriously, low energy today and just wondering if my Ketosis body needs a bit of sugary fuel? I am trying to do the “right” think but feel like an old man today. Wait, I’m 64…Am I being realistic?
    Oh well, one of those days .

    Do you think it’s hormonal or that you don’t have enough of those quick fuel calories available to feel energized? Sometimes we do have those days, and they’re a total bummer. And sometimes it’s a sign we need to shift our diet into something practical. Hope it’s just one of those days. Otherwise, adding 150 calories +/- of some energy adding calories sounds like a good call. As my husband would say…

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  • ddsb1111
    ddsb1111 Posts: 869 Member
    edited November 2023
    qfz76w9d7fre.gif

    My actual cat looks *and acts* like this guy lol. He’s in my profile pic on Mona Lisa’s lap if you look closely (I have this painting in my house). Shout out to all the cat Mom’s/Dad’s out there 👏🏻😍.
  • shel80kg
    shel80kg Posts: 161 Member
    Your cat looks scary. I remember a poster I used to have with a black cat similar to yours with the caption.
    "I'm low on esterogen and have a gun.....any questions"?
  • shel80kg
    shel80kg Posts: 161 Member
    I had some nice food yesterday and feel a whole lot better. Isn't the relationship between mind and body amazing? We are not just "what we eat" but our emotions are all intertwined in what happens in and because of our gut. Guess it's important to look after both with mindfulness, respect and caution.
  • PAPYRUS3
    PAPYRUS3 Posts: 13,259 Member
    It's not 'You are what you eat...' it's more 'You eat what you are...'
  • shel80kg
    shel80kg Posts: 161 Member
    Good point Papy…
    If we are impulsive, reckless and dissociated kind of folk, well, good luck with consistency and responsible eating.
    I used to chomp into large bars of chocolate with no limitations. Eat the whole damn think without a second thought….or a second of thought. And I wonder why I was relegated to the 4xl sections of shirts at Kmart? Not rocket science.
  • ddsb1111
    ddsb1111 Posts: 869 Member
    edited November 2023
    shel80kg wrote: »
    Good point Papy…
    If we are impulsive, reckless and dissociated kind of folk, well, good luck with consistency and responsible eating.
    I used to chomp into large bars of chocolate with no limitations. Eat the whole damn think without a second thought….or a second of thought. And I wonder why I was relegated to the 4xl sections of shirts at Kmart? Not rocket science.

    Does Exogenous obesity describe your experience then?

    Excerpt: Exogenous obesity has a psychological or emotional origin. Nowadays, it is the most common form of obesity and mainly occurs due to excessive consumption of food, certain eating habits, and/or undiagnosed eating disorders such as hyperphagia or binge-eating disorder. It is also associated with affective disorders such as depression and anxiety. This type of obesity represents 90-95% of obesity cases.

    One of the difficulties that many therapists encounter is organizing the treatment with these patients. First, because it was believed for a long time that it was a disease that had no place in psychology centers, which was due to the view that the origin was either genetic or organic. Second, because people who requested psychotherapy for this problem did not receive specific treatment due to a lack of knowledge on the part of the professional.

    An Obesity Approach from the Work with Attachment, Trauma and Dissociation

    The proposed approach combines working with attachment, trauma, and dissociation. These three pillars are essential to develop the therapeutic treatment for obesity.

    “When treating attachment, trauma, and dissociation, we cover all those aspects that influence both the appearance of the disease and its development. Many of the cases of obesity find their origin in an attachment disorder since food ends up associated with adverse life experience. In other cases, food becomes the way in which the person learns to survive traumatic experiences and, in others, food is the means through which the person connects with the dissociative experience to regulate themselves or disconnect”.

    Continue to read if this interests you. It was pretty earth shattering for me in the right way.

    https://www.gavinpublishers.com/article/view/key-points-in-the-psychotherapeutic-treatment-of-obesity

    Details on these 3 points are essential IMO: attachment, trauma, and dissociation


    I ate because I didn’t know when my meals were coming, if ever. And I was alone a lot and it was a self soothing technique. I often wondered why other people become obese and I see the response, “I like food a lot” here in the forum. This response doesn’t reflect the 95% of people in the study so far, but it might be too personal to say. For me, it was so much more than that, and personally I didn’t relate obesity being about taste as much as I did with uncertainty.
  • shel80kg
    shel80kg Posts: 161 Member
    Hi gang,
    It has been months and I have missed writing here. I have been reflecting on the importance of this thread to me and I would like to breathe life into it again.I have some sensitive and perhaps even controversial topics to explore. I hope we can have some robust and informative discussions.


    My body has certainly changed over the past few months and one of the most interesting byproducts of very substantial weight loss has been how people have "noticed" my thinner physique. I have received some compliments and my emotional response has been suprising. I admit that I have enjoyed the feedback but at the same time I wonder how people perceived me when I was very overweight and never really commented or drew attention to that. I wonder how genuine and authetic these people have been?I know that my emotional state is my responsibility and there is a lot going on in my mind.


    I recall reading a book about weight loss written by an author (can’t recall name) who presented a fascinating bit of insight. The feelings we get when are stomach is “full” can be almost if not identical to similar feelings of love and approval. Hence, we discover (often rather early in life) that food can be a far more safe and reasonable alternative to human love. Further, feelings of hunger and emptiness in our stomach or even cravings can trigger deeper wounds of having felt unloved and uncared for and yes…you guessed it…eating really helps our emotional brain solved that dilemma.

    Weight gain is quite often the “collateral” fall out but our brain is really trying it’s best to solve the emotional distress caused so long ago. If we get a clearer understanding of why we eat what we eat and what we might be feeling at the time….perhaps we can gain more clarity and precision in terms of our emotional needs.

    I am going to begin logging my food intake in an actual food journal with an emphasis on what I am thinking/feeling at the time of eating. This way I can keep track of the food and also the context of you my feelings. So…that might look like would be Date, Time, Food Eaten and Feelings and Circumstances. Might make for interesting analysis. Time for some insight. Thanks for reading.
  • sollyn23l2
    sollyn23l2 Posts: 1,754 Member
    I think keeping an actual food journal is a great idea. How we feel about food affects what we eat so much. And really, when you think about it, food has been connected to love/security from the day we're born and rely on Mom and Dad to feed us (or not). It makes sense that throughout life, the feeling of being fed is so closely connected to the feeling of being cared for.
  • shel80kg
    shel80kg Posts: 161 Member
    Thanks Sollyn 2312. I hadn't considered the association between initial bonding, food source and delivery and parental reliance. Makes perfect sense. Do you think we underestimate the importance of the "early" years of development and learning? I know that some psychologists make this a major focus in therapy. I have changed my mind a number of times over the years and keep returning to the importance of how we might have been influenced/conditioned from an early age to develop our eating patterns. Interested in what all of you think about this?
  • shel80kg
    shel80kg Posts: 161 Member
    Oh yes, As a point of interest.... My beautiful wife made a simple yet lovely breakfast for me this morning although I was going to hold fast to intermittment fasting. Neverthless, the two pieces of buttered toast laced with a little bit of cheese and salami beckoned. At first, I resisted and then wondered why I would not allow myself to enjoy this yummy creation. I decided to eat it with a mindful appreciation of the love that went into the preparation and an understanding that I cannot be all or nothing when it comes to eating.

    I really enjoyed the breakfast and will just moderate carbs for the rest of the day. No problem. I have lost over 20kg already so maybe I need to be a bit more balanced now. I like this type of reflection.

    I think we have to be responsible with our eating but not rediculously strict unless we have severe medial conditions. That is different. So...I am tryng to change my mindset and ability to be flexible.
    A first for me.
  • vanmep
    vanmep Posts: 410 Member
    I enjoy reading your ponderings. I have definitely found that this is a mental and emotional journey as much as anything. In November you made a comment that I think may have been an autocorrect, but I like it and thought it was a profound slip. You said, “I am trying to do the right think.” Maybe that’s what it’s all about.
  • sollyn23l2
    sollyn23l2 Posts: 1,754 Member
    shel80kg wrote: »
    Thanks Sollyn 2312. I hadn't considered the association between initial bonding, food source and delivery and parental reliance. Makes perfect sense. Do you think we underestimate the importance of the "early" years of development and learning? I know that some psychologists make this a major focus in therapy. I have changed my mind a number of times over the years and keep returning to the importance of how we might have been influenced/conditioned from an early age to develop our eating patterns. Interested in what all of you think about this?

    Yes, I think we do underestimate it. There's an incredible amount of learning and growth at that time. I do, however, think we might have gone too far in the direction of trying to protect them from any and all trauma. It's true that trauma rewires the brain in certain ways, but that's because all learning rewires the brain. It's just that, with trauma, we probably learn some things that aren't so helpful (like feeling hungry means I am unloved and uncared for, for example). But, people are resilient, and I have enough hope to believe that if we can learn one thing, we can learn something new and different.
  • Adventurista
    Adventurista Posts: 1,680 Member
    Hi Shel & everyone who've shared thoughts along the way, thought provoking indeed.

    I've also been reading elsewhere ideas on self-care, and this thread on caring for our bodies too when we are making choices, especially balancing our food/eating approach. I would also agree in principal with the sentiment that we don't want to get too rigid with our food plans, but what does this mean, practically speaking?

    So, thought I would share my thoughts about last night's dinner....

    Last night we had take and bake pizza. I stopped after I ate what i had planned, even though my lips smacked 'yummy!!!!' and i wanted that much more again. Stopping at enough was an act of self-care choice for my body (instead of impulse immediate brain pleasure.) I need to ponder and practice this a bit more. I'm used to going for more extending pure pleasure, but i think stopping is a better self-care choice.
  • shel80kg
    shel80kg Posts: 161 Member
    EpochAhead, we must have been chanelling one another last night. I made a lamb roast with yummy mashed potatoes and a beautiful salad. I had a bit of bread and salami as I was preparing the little feast for me and my lovely wife. What was significant about this experience is that it is the first time in 4.5 months that I have lashed out and I ate as much as I wanted and it felt like a a decodant eating spree. Carb city. I enjoyed everymouthfull and did not stop eating until I was pleasantly full. I remember wondering how unforgiving the scales would be the next morning but frankly Scarlett, I didn't give a damn.
    Guess what, exactly the same weight as the day before. Guess what? I was not kicked out of Keto land. Go figure.
    So....my learnings? I am going to try and be less restrictive and more aware of when I feel full and when it is time for me to change the game a bit. Early days and man, like many of you....I have been here before. But this ol' body is 64 and I had better give it some respect and consistency. At the same time, food is not our mortal enemy and our body truly keeps the score (not just with trauma...great book) but with how we treat it and how we fuel the sucker. So.... a new chapter? One sentence at a time.

    (Oh yes, by the way...I had a the best sleep in months.....must have been my love for potatoes). Thanks for reading.
  • shel80kg
    shel80kg Posts: 161 Member
    edited January 22
    Something I wrote earlier today to someone who is part of the "yo-yo" fraternity of weight loss and weight gain that many of us subscribe to:

    I remember one of my favourite mentors at university explain that the skills required to lose weight are completely different to those involved with maintaining the weight we have achieved.

    Two different goals likely require separate and well thought out approaches.The first is about breaking the patterns, building momentum and confidence and noticing results which reinforce the changed eating routines.

    The second, FAR MORE DIFFICULT. The second, life-style changes and a responsible approach to food and the impact(s) on our bodies over time. Understanding the relationship between mind and body and how we treat ourselves may as important from a psychological perspective as a physical. We are what we eat and often we may find ourselves not just eating to live.....but living to eat.
  • mtaratoot
    mtaratoot Posts: 14,228 Member
    shel80kg wrote: »
    Something I wrote earlier today to someone who is part of the "yo-yo" fraternity of weight loss and weight gain that many of us subscribe to:

    I remember one of my favourite mentors at university explain that the skills required to lose weight are completely different to those involved with maintaining the weight we have achieved.

    I have found that they are the same skills. The main difference is that the feedback is different when maintaining fat loss. The scale no longer goes down consistently. Well, it does, but it's punctuated by going up. Down and up. Up and down. It's losing the same five or eight or ten pounds over and over and over and not letting more than that return.

    Using a tool like MFP, it's exactly the same with the exception that you get a few more calories in maintenance than in fat loss.

    I do agree that it's not easy to maintain. Old ways are hard to keep at bay. It takes continued vigilance. It takes good habits. A wise person sets themself up for success by taking a slow and steady approach to fat loss and uses that time to develop the good habits that they will continue when they are done with the fat loss phase.

    Was your mentor a professor? What was the class?
  • shel80kg
    shel80kg Posts: 161 Member
    Hi mtaratoot,

    The mentor was/is a professor in Psychology with a speciality in motivation and addiction. He provided clinical evidence and longitudinal case studies on the dieting and maintenance as two separate and distince processes which I found useful (and convincing).

    Most people become quite successful at losing weight. These same individuals are more likely than not at gaining back the weight and even more than they started at baseline. The prof's conclusion which I think is pretty accurate is that the choices and decisions change when the weight is lost and indivdiuals are faced with the long term process of maintaing and establishing longer term patterns and habits. Habit formation and the the neuropathways necessary for more established and entrenched responses to hunger (and often other less physcial and more psychological reasons for eating ) are often side-stepped during the "dieting phase" but activate almost without mercy once weight loss has been achieved.

    Sadly, most people ascribe to you your view that the skill sets are the same and if that was true, why do a vast number of individuals succeed with dieting but simply fail at maintaining the body weight they worked so hard to achieve?

    I think it is imperative that we see the two processes as different because they are. My personal view is that the "diet industry" counts on individuals constantly cycling from weight loss to weight gain and this in a large part due to the unsustainability of dieting and the lack of education and support for the longer term necessity of healthy, appropriate eating and self-care habits.


  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 34,168 Member
    edited January 23
    shel80kg wrote: »
    Hi mtaratoot,

    The mentor was/is a professor in Psychology with a speciality in motivation and addiction. He provided clinical evidence and longitudinal case studies on the dieting and maintenance as two separate and distince processes which I found useful (and convincing).

    Most people become quite successful at losing weight. These same individuals are more likely than not at gaining back the weight and even more than they started at baseline. The prof's conclusion which I think is pretty accurate is that the choices and decisions change when the weight is lost and indivdiuals are faced with the long term process of maintaing and establishing longer term patterns and habits. Habit formation and the the neuropathways necessary for more established and entrenched responses to hunger (and often other less physcial and more psychological reasons for eating ) are often side-stepped during the "dieting phase" but activate almost without mercy once weight loss has been achieved.

    Sadly, most people ascribe to you your view that the skill sets are the same and if that was true, why do a vast number of individuals succeed with dieting but simply fail at maintaining the body weight they worked so hard to achieve?

    I think it is imperative that we see the two processes as different because they are. My personal view is that the "diet industry" counts on individuals constantly cycling from weight loss to weight gain and this in a large part due to the unsustainability of dieting and the lack of education and support for the longer term necessity of healthy, appropriate eating and self-care habits.

    Most people may believe that the two processes, loss and maintenance are the same . . . but very many do not seem to behave in accord with that belief when losing. It is very common here to see the "lose weight fast" approach to the loss phase, with restrictive eating rules and punitively intense exercise; or falling into whatever the trend of the moment is for popular named-diet weight loss approaches.

    I don't know for sure what happens in those cases, but many of the people following that kind of approach usually disappear from MFP quite quickly. Some return with "back again, regained" posts. Some do persist until goal weight is attained, but post in ways that suggest they're floundering a bit when they reach maintenance.

    I obviously haven't done a formal study, but it seems like a lot of the people who do stay here and are long term successful at maintaining loss do behave during weight loss as if they believe it's necessary to identify and establish new, permanent habits. They may not go all the way through loss with that philosophy, but do have a phase during loss where they basically "train for maintenance".

    I do agree with @mtaratoot that the loss and maintenance skill sets are quite similar . . . but in a context where I saw the loss phase as about finding new, sustainable habits I could stick with long term in order to maintain.

    I feel like the difference between those who say (and behave as if) the essential skill sets are the same are taking a different from common approach to the loss phase. For myself, I was very determined not to do anything to lose weight that I wasn't willing to continue doing forever to stay at a healthy weight, other than a sensibly moderate calorie deficit until I reached goal weight. That put a premium on finding relatively easy, relatively happy new habits and practicing them until they could happen almost on autopilot.

    I've seen another long-term maintainer here suggest that others "treat maintenance as if one still has 10 pounds to lose", which is a slightly different take, but a similar idea - to make the process the same for both loss and maintenance.

    Many, many people treat loss as a project with an end date, after which things "go back to normal". That's a recipe for regain. For someone like me, who has a tendency to become overweight, weight management is a forever endeavor, lifelong. The loss phase is just an on-ramp to forever, ideally, IMO.
  • mtaratoot
    mtaratoot Posts: 14,228 Member
    shel80kg wrote: »
    Hi mtaratoot,

    The mentor was/is a professor in Psychology with a speciality in motivation and addiction. He provided clinical evidence and longitudinal case studies on the dieting and maintenance as two separate and distince processes which I found useful (and convincing).

    Most people become quite successful at losing weight. These same individuals are more likely than not at gaining back the weight and even more than they started at baseline. The prof's conclusion which I think is pretty accurate is that the choices and decisions change when the weight is lost and indivdiuals are faced with the long term process of maintaing and establishing longer term patterns and habits. Habit formation and the the neuropathways necessary for more established and entrenched responses to hunger (and often other less physcial and more psychological reasons for eating ) are often side-stepped during the "dieting phase" but activate almost without mercy once weight loss has been achieved.

    Sadly, most people ascribe to you your view that the skill sets are the same and if that was true, why do a vast number of individuals succeed with dieting but simply fail at maintaining the body weight they worked so hard to achieve?

    I think it is imperative that we see the two processes as different because they are. My personal view is that the "diet industry" counts on individuals constantly cycling from weight loss to weight gain and this in a large part due to the unsustainability of dieting and the lack of education and support for the longer term necessity of healthy, appropriate eating and self-care habits.


    I agree with some of what your professor suggests, but not all. Many people (I don't know if I'd say most) are indeed successful at losing weight. Many of those people (here I might actually say most) do gain back the weight they lost, often as they say "with friends." The National Weight Control Registry has data to show this is extremely common, and it happens within three years.

    Losing and regaining weight is possibly worse than not losing at all even if you don't gain back more than you started with. In a loss phase, we lose fat AND muscle. In a gain phase without strength training, we get back fat. The person who loses and gains back to the same weight likely is at a higher body fat than before due to muscle loss. Pretty sad.

    Where disagree is that it's a different process. My process for losing weight (fat) is: find a calorie goal and try to meet that calorie goal. My process for sustaining fat loss is: find a calorie goal and try to meet that calorie goal. It's exactly the same process. The difference is that going from a goal to lose a half pound a week to maintaining fat loss is I get an extra two ounces of cheese per day.

    I believe the reason that people gain back is that they don't stick with the process. They view weight loss as a "one and done" kind of thing, and then they go back to the old ways. One thing people can (and I say should) do during fat loss is develop good habits. These habits shouldn't be punishment. They should be habits that the person can continue indefinitely. Then when the fat is gone, the person can just keep on chugging, but they can have that extra two ounces of cheese, twelve ounces of beer, or cup of cooked brown rice.

    It's the same process.

    The problem is when people stop using the process. If you do what you've done in the past but expect a different result is what Albert Einstein suggested was the definition of insanity.


  • shel80kg
    shel80kg Posts: 161 Member
    PAV8888, like many others on these forums, you responded with the type of logic which implies that guys like me"don't get it" and dieting and maintaining weight loss involve the same skills.

    With respect, you appear to be missing the main point ( paraphrased by me but presented in scholarly fashion by a Psychologist with decades of experience in addiction and weight loss).

    Here it is in more simple terms:

    1. Individuals who truly struggle with obesity often "flip a switch" of some sort when they have had enough of whatever upsets them in relation to their body image. In a rather sudden and perhaps ill thought out way, they tend to be more motivated and passionate about dieting.Hence the embracing of diet fads and "quick fix" implementations in food consumption and "gym memberships".

    These individuals utilize the skills of "white knuckling" suppress their cravings and impulses and go almost always into deprivation and rapid reduction of food consumption.

    Obviously, these folks are reinforced with (relatively) rapid results and a sense of success.

    2. The research on weight loss and maintaining a healthy body indicates that a majority of people who lose weight (and in particular lose weight quickly) are unable to maintain the newly established weight loss because they require deeper knowledge, understanding and practice with healthy eating habits and patterns.

    Your rather long response ignores the sad and stark reality of weight -gain recidivism.

    Individuals who engage in rapid dieting are driven (and motivated by) fast results, and external support and encouragement.....

    These same Individuals are then required to focus on maintaining a healthy eating regime. But what have they learned and practiced. Dieting tends NOT to promote this and the person who has worked so hard to shed the weight may not have learned anything that may ensure ongoing success. That is reality.

    Therefore, the skills required to create successful maintenance of a healthy body require a shift in attitude, enduring behavioural patterns, reduction in instant gratification and promotion of delayed rewards and a deeper understanding of the impact various foods have on the metabolic machinery.

    I am not saying you are wrong or misguided in your previous responses. My view is you attempted to simplify and sidestep the obvious tendencies of a majority of dieters who are very good at getting the weight down but not equipped with the appropriate skills necessary for maintenance.

    In my view, this is a common misperception and one main reason (perhaps) why people who are unable to keep the weight off are often misunderstood and demonised by those who think it is "just so straight forward"

    Interested in what others think.

    Shel
  • mtaratoot
    mtaratoot Posts: 14,228 Member
    @shel80kg

    Shel,

    I don't think there's disagreement with what happens or even the motivation for people to go on unsustainable diets that only work for a while if at all.

    I think it is representative of a deeper problem. I can't say whether this is the case in cultures other than USA, so it's a limited observation. I suspect that some cultural norms from USA do travel abroad. What I see is that people have trouble with delayed gratification. Right now is not soon enough. Delayed gratification - working now for something desirable in the future - is a skill that can serve us well.

    When I was working, I would always be amazed when people would routinely buy new cars. Fancy trucks. On credit. Their previous vehicle hadn't even been paid off yet. They would buy new boats and trailers. For sure they had some fun toys, but they couldn't use them very often because they had to work more to try to deal with the debt - sometimes taking side jobs in addition to reasonably well-paying full-time government jobs.

    I know that credit card debt is a burden that a lot of people have to deal with. It's a hole that digs itself deeper and deeper. Some people can change their habits, be a bit more frugal, and work towards paying some of them down or off before incurring more debt. Some people even overcome it. I have a friend who only got over it after a bankruptcy. She could get a credit card again, but refuses just to make sure she doesn't fall back into that trap. Kudos on her for saving enough money to buy a tiny property and build a tiny house without a mortgage just so she could avoid debt.

    We recently had an ice storm. People were livid that the City didn't plow the streets. This was an ICE storm, not a snow storm. We don't get a lot of winter weather, so we don't have many plows. The plows we have are rubber-tipped. There's no way they could get through the ice. That didn't matter - people needed it done yesterday.

    Road rage is an issue. If a person were to be nice and let someone else merge, it might slow them down by six seconds. Maybe more if it made them miss a traffic light. Now we're up to 36 seconds. This is maybe a weak example of delayed gratification. Then again, people paid all that money for the fancy new car, it's almost kind of interesting they wouldn't try to maximize the time they spend in it by letting someone else merge.

    There's lots more examples. Needing to lose weight immediately is a symptom of the same syndrome. It stems from an unrealistic of the work-reward model. It is indeed unfortunate that when that "switch gets flipped" as you mentioned, people don't take a moment to think about developing a safe and effective approach. It is unfortunate that they believe some of the marketing that tells them there's magic to be had from {insert fast loss model duur jour}. Do you remember Martina Navratilova's "potato diet?" High carb. People today would be aghast. Remember the cabbage soup diet? Are people still doing that? Grapefruit diet? Same deal. Promises made for fast results. Failure almost always ensues even if there's some initial success. While the results from the "Marshmallow Experiment" were debunked, the practice of delayed gratification could serve people well. For six centuries people have written that "Patience is a Virtue." Many people in our modern culture have a real challenge practicing it. For fat loss, it's critical.

  • mtaratoot
    mtaratoot Posts: 14,228 Member
    "Would that there were an award for people who come to understand the concept of enough. Good enough." -- Gail Sheehy