losing weight & gaining muscle at same time?

eslteacheramy

Hi all!

So I started my 1200 calorie journey January 2. SW was 146. GW: 115-120. CW: 131. female/5'2/37 y/o. To lose one pound to 1.5 pounds a month, I have to eat 1200 b/c I'm barely 5'2. I've lost 15 lbs in 3 months.

For the first time ever, I decided to incorporate strength training into my exercise routine due to the fact that many articles I've read state that it can boost metabolism a little bit. Also, I wouldn't mind looking a little more toned.

Over the last 3 months, I will strength train usually twice a week for around 30 minutes. My weight loss from March 2 to April 2 was only 2 pounds. I felt disappointed but then I wondered if it could be due to gaining any muscle weight?? Could it be that I am still improving the look of my body but it hasn't shown up as much on the scale due to the resistance training? I don't go out of my way to eat a large amt. of protein- my goal is 60 g daily but sometimes I only get 40 or 50.

Should I eat more protein? Did I gain any muscle weight at all over the last 3 months? I do all the exercises - squats, dead bugs, tricep, bicep, ab exercises- whatever resistance training vids I find on Youtube. Each time I do a different combo of exercises.

I still want the number on the scale to go down more- and sticking with 1200 I thought maybe I'd lose more this last month. Maybe I am in a plateau??

Any ideas/suggestions? Thank you!

tomcustombuilder

Adding muscle even in a calorie surplus especially for a woman is not an easy task, in a deficit like that it will be most likely not going to happen. Once you get to a state of leanness that you like then reverse diet into a small surplus.

Retroguy2000

For starters, your protein is way too low. 50g and you weigh you weight 131. You should be aiming for at least 0.7g per pound which is 92g. So you're on about half of what you should be if you're lifting a lot. That said, 2 x 30 mins, some of which is bodyweight stuff and arms, is closer to muscle maintenance than muscle growth.

You have the right approach with a slow loss, and a desire to gain some muscle. But you're going to need more progressive overload and more protein. And even then, as a female in a deficit muscle growth will be hard, but it will absolutely help with your body composition.

ahoy_m8

Strictly speaking of fat loss, no, you are not in a plateau. It is common for loss to slow as you lose. If you have eaten at a consistent calorie level, and your body weight has decreased (hence your TDEE has decreased), your net deficit has also decreased. Totally normal and healthy.

Speaking of lean gains, I have to agree with @tomcustombuilder , unfortunately. (No shade to Tom.) Adding muscle mass is hard. It takes patience and perseverance. A reasonable goal for lean mass gain is ~1lb/mo in a surplus with pretty ideal conditions and being young with good genetics. ST is TOTALLY worth doing to preserve the mass you have while losing fat. God knows, it's hard to gain lean mass; you you don't want to lose it while cutting!

Your narrative is a little confusing to me. Losing 15lb in 3 months is close to 1.25lb/week, or a deficit of 625cal/day. You suggest that you're eating lower than 1200 cal/day because that's the goal for 1-1.5 lb/mo loss. And you express disappointment with 2lb/mo loss. Have you eaten at 1200cal steadily since the beginning (15 lb in 3 months)?

FWIW, 2lb/mo loss sounds ideal to me if you care about sparing lean mass. Small people lose slower. It sucks, but CO is smaller so less margin for CI.

eslteacheramy

ahoy_m8 wrote: »

Strictly speaking of fat loss, no, you are not in a plateau. It is common for loss to slow as you lose. If you have eaten at a consistent calorie level, and your body weight has decreased (hence your TDEE has decreased), your net deficit has also decreased. Totally normal and healthy.

Speaking of lean gains, I have to agree with @tomcustombuilder , unfortunately. (No shade to Tom.) Adding muscle mass is hard. It takes patience and perseverance. A reasonable goal for lean mass gain is ~1lb/mo in a surplus with pretty ideal conditions and being young with good genetics. ST is TOTALLY worth doing to preserve the mass you have while losing fat. God knows, it's hard to gain lean mass; you you don't want to lose it while cutting!

Your narrative is a little confusing to me. Losing 15lb in 3 months is close to 1.25lb/week, or a deficit of 625cal/day. You suggest that you're eating lower than 1200 cal/day because that's the goal for 1-1.5 lb/mo loss. And you express disappointment with 2lb/mo loss. Have you eaten at 1200cal steadily since the beginning (15 lb in 3 months)?

FWIW, 2lb/mo loss sounds ideal to me if you care about sparing lean mass. Small people lose slower. It sucks, but CO is smaller so less margin for CI.

According to the TDEE calculator, my maintenance calories are 1700. So since I can't go lower than 1200, I've been doing 1200 since Jan. It seems like some of the weight came off faster in the beginning but now has slowed. I only weigh myself 1x a month so I don't track the rate of loss. My current weight maybe could be a pound or two less due to the fact that I don't weigh everyday. Every 2nd day of the month I do weigh at the same time (morning, after pee, before food, naked).

I have been tracking every day since Jan 2. Sometimes on a weekend I may eat slightly more than 1200- maybe 1300 or 1400, but I also work out those days. I don't purposely eat back the exercise calories. I will usually just eat a hard boiled egg in the morning and then go out to eat with a friend and eat 1200 calories worth. I may burn 100-150 calories from exercise (60 min of walking, 30 cardio, 30 strength).

I think I will adjust my expectations and continue to do strength training not to gain any muscle but to not lose any. Or I have to increase protein. Every article says to do it if you want to lose weight...but then I see that it really only increases metabolism by like idek 20 or 30 calories a day lol. It's gotta be helping me somehow. I was just really hoping after 3 months to have toned my arms up slightly. Does it take 6 months to a year to tone arms/legs/stomach through strength training?

Thanks for your input!

Retroguy2000

eslteacheramy wrote: »

Or I have to increase protein. Every article says to do it if you want to lose weight...but then I see that it really only increases metabolism by like idek 20 or 30 calories a day lol. It's gotta be helping me somehow. I was just really hoping after 3 months to have toned my arms up slightly. Does it take 6 months to a year to tone arms/legs/stomach through strength training?

There are a number of reasons why. More protein is satiating, which makes it easier to stick to a calorie budget. Protein also has a higher thermic effect, i.e. your body burns more calories digesting it than with fat or carbs. The strength training helps you retain or build muscle mass, and improves your bone density. More muscle has a small effect on increasing your RMR.

As for how long, that's impossible to say. But the first step would be doing enough volume with progressive overload, and sufficient protein. Sorry to be blunt, but you're not there yet. And even then, being in a calorie deficit makes it harder, but c'est la vie, slow weight loss plus resistance training is still the way to go.

AnnPT77

eslteacheramy wrote: »

ahoy_m8 wrote: »

Strictly speaking of fat loss, no, you are not in a plateau. It is common for loss to slow as you lose. If you have eaten at a consistent calorie level, and your body weight has decreased (hence your TDEE has decreased), your net deficit has also decreased. Totally normal and healthy.

Speaking of lean gains, I have to agree with @tomcustombuilder , unfortunately. (No shade to Tom.) Adding muscle mass is hard. It takes patience and perseverance. A reasonable goal for lean mass gain is ~1lb/mo in a surplus with pretty ideal conditions and being young with good genetics. ST is TOTALLY worth doing to preserve the mass you have while losing fat. God knows, it's hard to gain lean mass; you you don't want to lose it while cutting!

Your narrative is a little confusing to me. Losing 15lb in 3 months is close to 1.25lb/week, or a deficit of 625cal/day. You suggest that you're eating lower than 1200 cal/day because that's the goal for 1-1.5 lb/mo loss. And you express disappointment with 2lb/mo loss. Have you eaten at 1200cal steadily since the beginning (15 lb in 3 months)?

FWIW, 2lb/mo loss sounds ideal to me if you care about sparing lean mass. Small people lose slower. It sucks, but CO is smaller so less margin for CI.

According to the TDEE calculator, my maintenance calories are 1700. So since I can't go lower than 1200, I've been doing 1200 since Jan. It seems like some of the weight came off faster in the beginning but now has slowed. I only weigh myself 1x a month so I don't track the rate of loss. My current weight maybe could be a pound or two less due to the fact that I don't weigh everyday. Every 2nd day of the month I do weigh at the same time (morning, after pee, before food, naked).

Once you have 3 months of calorie and weight logging experience, ignore what the TDEE calculator says. It just spits out the average calorie needs for someone superficially similar to you on the few data points you put into the calculator. Your actual experience gives you a much better estimate of your calorie needs, and in the context of your own logging habits.

If you've lost 15 pounds in 3 months, you've been averaging about 1.25 pounds of loss per week, which would imply an average calorie deficit over that time of about 625 calories per day. Add up your calories for the 3 months (since you say it varied), divide by the number of days to get your average intake, and add 625. That'd be your estimated average TDEE. (You can look at the loss over just the most recent month and do similar arithmetic. Assume 500 calories a day is about a pound a week of fat change. Use at least a one-month time period, though.)

I have been tracking every day since Jan 2. Sometimes on a weekend I may eat slightly more than 1200- maybe 1300 or 1400, but I also work out those days. I don't purposely eat back the exercise calories. I will usually just eat a hard boiled egg in the morning and then go out to eat with a friend and eat 1200 calories worth. I may burn 100-150 calories from exercise (60 min of walking, 30 cardio, 30 strength).

I think I will adjust my expectations and continue to do strength training not to gain any muscle but to not lose any. Or I have to increase protein. Every article says to do it if you want to lose weight...but then I see that it really only increases metabolism by like idek 20 or 30 calories a day lol. It's gotta be helping me somehow. I was just really hoping after 3 months to have toned my arms up slightly. Does it take 6 months to a year to tone arms/legs/stomach through strength training?

Thanks for your input!

The bolded are the things to do: Strength training (make sure it's progressive, and that you're close to the the last rep or two you could possibly manage when you're on the last set. Use a good program. Get enough volume weekly for each major muscle group. (Others on the thread can give better advice on programs than I can.)

You need protein to keep your existing muscle, as well as to build any at all ever. Protein is the raw material. We need more protein (relatively) when losing weight in order to help maintain our existing muscle. The point isn't that tiny additional amount of calorie burn at rest (because you're right, it's a truly tiny number of calories daily).

However, the stronger/fitter we are, the more easy and fun it is to move, so we tend to do more (without even thinking about it) in our daily life, and burn more calories that way, thus increasing our calorie burn. It's a slow process, but it can be very meaningful. Also, as mentioned, it takes a few more calories to digest protein (vs. carbs or fats), plus most people find it filling. Getting enough is a win for many reasons. FWIW, I'm 5'5", now in the low 130s pounds, and shoot for a minimum of 100g daily (which I usually happily exceed).

"Does it take 6 months to a year to tone arms/legs/stomach through strength training?"

Here's the thing: "Toning" is a poorly-defined term that usually involves a combination of adding muscle mass (via strength training and adequate nutrition) plus having a level of body fat that allows that muscle to show to the degree the specific person finds most attractive.

Yes, it can be slow. It's hard for me to tell, too, where you are in that process. You say you're almost 5'2" and 131 pounds, which is BMI 24. Now, I know that BMI is only a rough approximation, but that would suggest you're just a small bit into the normal weight range, roughly 5 pounds below the technical definition of overweight.

That's not a criticism! The point is that if you do have some muscle mass going, whether from your recent exercise or pre-existing, you may still have enough subcutaneous fat that it doesn't yet show in the way you'd like.

Personal anecdote: I'm an oddball who became very active in her late 40s, including some lifting and a lot of a strength-y-er form of cardio (rowing, boats and machines) . . . but I stayed fat for a long time, a dozen years, while doing that stuff. I looked blobby. Then I lost weight, around 50 pounds. To my amazement, there were some cute li'l ol' lady muscles revealed that had been hiding under the fat layer. It was a nice surprise. So, don't ignore the "right fat level" aspect of "toned". There's more to it than just having muscles, there's also un-hiding them just enough.

If your lifting is new, odds are low that you've gained much muscle mass in 3 months of lifting in a calorie deficit, unfortunately. There can still be appearance improvements, perhaps subtle: Things tighten up, posture improves, there's potentially a little fullness in the muscles from the water retained there for muscle repair. So the training is worth doing, even in the short run. On top of that, strength is useful in daily life, and will help you on the road to healthy aging. (Don't panic: You're not old. I just think of things like that because I am old, 68. )

At your current weight, if it were me with your goals, I'd:
* up the protein (and fine-tune other nutrition if needed),
* make sure the lifting program and lifting consistency are where they need to be, and
* set up for a very slow loss (like half a pound a week) based on your own calorie experience data. (Losing that slowly can take weeks to show up on the scale, as a warning. But it can work, and makes muscle gain a bit more likely, though no guarantees.)

That, and patience, would tend to take you to goal weight with the best chance of a little muscle gain, or at worst absolutely minimum muscle loss.

Hang in there. The results will be worth it, in a variety of ways.

kshama2001

eslteacheramy wrote: »

Hi all!

So I started my 1200 calorie journey January 2. SW was 146. GW: 115-120. CW: 131. female/5'2/37 y/o. To lose one pound to 1.5 pounds a month, I have to eat 1200 b/c I'm barely 5'2. I've lost 15 lbs in 3 months.

For the first time ever, I decided to incorporate strength training into my exercise routine due to the fact that many articles I've read state that it can boost metabolism a little bit. Also, I wouldn't mind looking a little more toned.

Over the last 3 months, I will strength train usually twice a week for around 30 minutes. My weight loss from March 2 to April 2 was only 2 pounds. I felt disappointed but then I wondered if it could be due to gaining any muscle weight?? Could it be that I am still improving the look of my body but it hasn't shown up as much on the scale due to the resistance training? I don't go out of my way to eat a large amt. of protein- my goal is 60 g daily but sometimes I only get 40 or 50.

Should I eat more protein? Did I gain any muscle weight at all over the last 3 months? I do all the exercises - squats, dead bugs, tricep, bicep, ab exercises- whatever resistance training vids I find on Youtube. Each time I do a different combo of exercises.

I still want the number on the scale to go down more- and sticking with 1200 I thought maybe I'd lose more this last month. Maybe I am in a plateau??

Any ideas/suggestions? Thank you!

With only 11-16 pounds left to lose, your rate of loss is right on track.



What do YOU think of the changes in your body? This is often hard for our own eyes to see. Have you taken measurements or progress pictures? How do your jeans fit?

You could certainly boost calories with protein.

Retroguy2000 wrote: »

eslteacheramy wrote: »

Or I have to increase protein. Every article says to do it if you want to lose weight...but then I see that it really only increases metabolism by like idek 20 or 30 calories a day lol. It's gotta be helping me somehow. I was just really hoping after 3 months to have toned my arms up slightly. Does it take 6 months to a year to tone arms/legs/stomach through strength training?

There are a number of reasons why. More protein is satiating, which makes it easier to stick to a calorie budget. Protein also has a higher thermic effect, i.e. your body burns more calories digesting it than with fat or carbs. The strength training helps you retain or build muscle mass, and improves your bone density. More muscle has a small effect on increasing your RMR.

As for how long, that's impossible to say. But the first step would be doing enough volume with progressive overload, and sufficient protein. Sorry to be blunt, but you're not there yet. And even then, being in a calorie deficit makes it harder, but c'est la vie, slow weight loss plus resistance training is still the way to go.

eslteacheramy

Retroguy2000 wrote: »

eslteacheramy wrote: »

Or I have to increase protein. Every article says to do it if you want to lose weight...but then I see that it really only increases metabolism by like idek 20 or 30 calories a day lol. It's gotta be helping me somehow. I was just really hoping after 3 months to have toned my arms up slightly. Does it take 6 months to a year to tone arms/legs/stomach through strength training?

There are a number of reasons why. More protein is satiating, which makes it easier to stick to a calorie budget. Protein also has a higher thermic effect, i.e. your body burns more calories digesting it than with fat or carbs. The strength training helps you retain or build muscle mass, and improves your bone density. More muscle has a small effect on increasing your RMR.

As for how long, that's impossible to say. But the first step would be doing enough volume with progressive overload, and sufficient protein. Sorry to be blunt, but you're not there yet. And even then, being in a calorie deficit makes it harder, but c'est la vie, slow weight loss plus resistance training is still the way to go.

Hi, thanks for your reply! So my question is how do I know if I am lifting heavy enough dumbbells? Prior to Jan 2, I had never lifted a dumbbell in my life practically. I started out at 2lbs, LOL I know super low but at the time it was a good starter weight. Then I went up to 6.6. Now I am at 8 lbs. Doing the various bicep/tricep/shoulder lifting exercises is doable with 8 lbs, but is def not easy. By the end of the rep, I am struggling (feeling the burn pretty strongly). Is there a common amt of time one takes to be able to get up to the next weight level?

eslteacheramy

AnnPT77, thank you for your thorough response!! Wow, so I think I was doing more of a calorie deficit than I realized (625 vs 500). I will do the calculations you suggest to find my new numbers.

I asked the previous person this as well, but how do you truly know what weights you should lift? Since Jan I went from 2 to 4 to 6.6 to currently 8 lb dumbbells. 8 is difficult for me- (I've never lifted in my entire 37 years until Jan). For certain exercises, I have to go back down to 6.6 b/c the 8s are too heavy. Should I try 10 lbs to see if I can do them? What if I can only do half of the rep with the 10s- does that mean I should go back down? Or is half at a higher weight better than all at a lower one?

Yes I will have to work to get more protein in. I do eat a lot of chicken ...if I can't get a lot thru my diet, does a protein powder or supplement work? I would rather take a pill than a powder but IDK if pills even exist and if they do, if they are effective?

I see what you are saying about possibly having too much fat for muscle to show. I keep trying to do exercises to get rid of the "batwings" lol like a lot of tricep extensions. Maybe when I lose my last 10 lbs or so, some slight toning will show. Thanks for that!

So lowering my calorie deficit may be better overall even if it leads to slower weight loss since It will help w/muscle. That makes sense.

Thanks for all your tips!

eslteacheramy

Hi Kshama2001,

Yes I have noticed that pants fit better and I definitely look better than before. I tried to take measurements but It was hard to get an accurate measure when trying to use a soft measuring tape on my own. I need someone to help hold it up around my waist or chest so I can get an accurate number. I will do that so that way I can see progress even if the scale doesn't budge. Thanks!

Retroguy2000

eslteacheramy wrote: »

I asked the previous person this as well, but how do you truly know what weights you should lift? Since Jan I went from 2 to 4 to 6.6 to currently 8 lb dumbbells. 8 is difficult for me- (I've never lifted in my entire 37 years until Jan). For certain exercises, I have to go back down to 6.6 b/c the 8s are too heavy. Should I try 10 lbs to see if I can do them? What if I can only do half of the rep with the 10s- does that mean I should go back down? Or is half at a higher weight better than all at a lower one?

The simplest answer is full range of motion, and if you can grind out the last rep or two with good form that's fine, but if you can't manage the concentric phase (e.g. the pull in a row) then your last good rep was to failure. You don't want to be training to failure all the time, it's very fatiguing. But you do want to be close to there, like no more than 2 reps away. For example, I remember a regular woman poster here talking about her shoulder press and I encouraged her to actually keep going one day to see where failure was, and she reported back she got 14 reps instead of her usual 10. If you can do 14, you aren't going to get much if any adaptation doing 10. I would encourage you to try a similar experiment. I'd also encourage you to bump that training up from twice a week to at least three times.

On the last rep that you're doing, milk the eccentric portion. In general slow the eccentric on every rep, especially the last rep. So in a bicep curl, fast up, slow down, fight the gravity. On a row, explosive pull, slow on the way back, fight the weight trying to return to its starting position.

A challenging leg exercise without much added weight is the Bulgarian split squat, good for quads and glutes. Check that one out. Because a goblet squat with those light weights won't challenge you.

Here's a vid of a guy I follow, Mark Lewis, talking with his wife about her transformation. I'm leaving you this to show the importance of lifting and weights, rather than just the number on the scale. The most relevant part is time stamped here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUXjbINwTfA&t=900s

DoubleG2

eslteacheramy wrote: »

I asked the previous person this as well, but how do you truly know what weights you should lift? Since Jan I went from 2 to 4 to 6.6 to currently 8 lb dumbbells. 8 is difficult for me- (I've never lifted in my entire 37 years until Jan). For certain exercises, I have to go back down to 6.6 b/c the 8s are too heavy. Should I try 10 lbs to see if I can do them? What if I can only do half of the rep with the 10s- does that mean I should go back down? Or is half at a higher weight better than all at a lower one?

There is a lot of great information here. Following a structured, progressive program is a proven approach:
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10332083/which-lifting-program-is-the-best-for-you/p1

It's normal to lift heavier or lighter depending on the exercise. For example, you may find 8lb dumbbells are fine for a db bench press, but too heavy for an overhead press - in which case use a lighter weight for that exercise. Good luck!

AnnPT77

eslteacheramy wrote: »

AnnPT77, thank you for your thorough response!! Wow, so I think I was doing more of a calorie deficit than I realized (625 vs 500). I will do the calculations you suggest to find my new numbers.

Good show: Slow-ish loss is more compatible with your goals and current size (not very overweight).

I asked the previous person this as well, but how do you truly know what weights you should lift? Since Jan I went from 2 to 4 to 6.6 to currently 8 lb dumbbells. 8 is difficult for me- (I've never lifted in my entire 37 years until Jan). For certain exercises, I have to go back down to 6.6 b/c the 8s are too heavy. Should I try 10 lbs to see if I can do them? What if I can only do half of the rep with the 10s- does that mean I should go back down? Or is half at a higher weight better than all at a lower one?

The other more lifting-centric folks have given you good advice about this. I've done some strength training, more in the past than currently (when I do woefully little, TBH), but it's not an area of expertise. Others know much more.

I wrote what I did because sometimes women are . . . I don't know . . . afraid of lifting heavy weights? I see some at my Y, more inclined to do high reps (often at a fast pace) and they're obviously stopping at a particular count (even when the last rep was still obviously easy). I know enough to know that's not a path to good progress.

But you're working hard, which is great. That's what you need. Other have given you good advice, and I'm sure will comment if you have more questions about the nuances of strength training.

Yes I will have to work to get more protein in. I do eat a lot of chicken ...if I can't get a lot thru my diet, does a protein powder or supplement work? I would rather take a pill than a powder but IDK if pills even exist and if they do, if they are effective?

I don't know if there are pills. I don't personally use protein supplements. When I first reduced calories to lose weight, I worked pretty persistently to revamp my routine eating patterns so I'd be getting adequate protein from food. (I like food! There's nothing wrong with protein powder, except that I personally prefer to get more yum with my calories/nutrition when I can. Heck, some people find flavored protein powders tasty, even.)

So, yes, use a supplement if that helps you get enough protein at reduced calories. Even if that's just a transitional aid while you work on getting more protein from food (if that's your goal), it can be helpful. There are also protein bars (candy-bar-like, some of them), protein chips, etc.

Look for a protein supplement that is "complete protein" (has all of the essential amino acids, EAAs). Whey protein is complete, bioavailable, usually pretty affordable, and (if unflavored) quite neutral tasting, if you can tolerate dairy. If you choose a powder, whey can be a good choice. You can blend it into smoothies, soups, baked goods, and other things, even.

If you want to increase protein from food, you may find this thread helpful:

https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10247171/carbs-and-fats-are-cheap-heres-a-guide-to-getting-your-proteins-worth-fiber-also

It links to a spreadsheet that lists many, many foods in order by most protein for fewest calories. One option is to review that, notice things high on the list you enjoy eating, and add those to your routine eating habits. I'd suggest trying to get one big protein source per meal, then think about other choices (sides, snacks, etc.) that brings small amounts of protein as well . . . choosing foods you enjoy. Life is too short to eat yucky stuff, IMO.

None of this needs to happen instantly. You can chip away at improvements when you have the psychological bandwidth to work on it.

I see what you are saying about possibly having too much fat for muscle to show. I keep trying to do exercises to get rid of the "batwings" lol like a lot of tricep extensions. Maybe when I lose my last 10 lbs or so, some slight toning will show. Thanks for that!

Uh oh. You've hit one of my personal hot buttons , "batwings".

Please make sure you're not mis-identifying nice, useful triceps muscles as fat or loose skin! I'm not saying you (or I) have zero upper arm loose skin or fat, but literally every woman I've ever spoken with in real life about this was thinking that much, much more of her upper arm was fat/skin than really was, and not recognizing the muscle.

I'm going to say (rant!) more about this, but it will be long (sorry) so I'm going to put it in a spoiler where you can ignore it if you want to. Click on the spoiler if you want to see it.

Muscles are slack and soft when they're not working (tightened). They can look floppy. Even many very trim, muscular people will have some upper arm wobble when their triceps are relaxed.

Do this: Extend your arm straight out, relaxed, in the way that many women will do to see the "batwings". With one hand, hold onto the "flap" of "fat and loose skin" on the opposite arm. Put your fingertips right up to near the bone, and hold on tight. Keep holding on.

Then flex the arm really, really hard. No, harder than that.

Bend your elbow, make a fist, bring your fist near your ear/shoulder, curl your fist over toward your forearm, get the elbow above shoulder level, and tighten the back of your arm hard as much as you possibly can, maximum concentration. In all cases where I've had a woman friend do this in real life, and she really got that flex on properly, some - usually lots - of that hang-y stuff got firm in her opposite hand's grip when she flexed. That part is MUSCLE. Please don't hate it when it's relaxed: It's supposed to be more slack then!

Yes, it can tighten up, skin can shrink, overlying fat can be lost . . . but the relaxed muscle will always have some degree of slack (therefore wobble). If it didn't, how would the muscle contract (shorten) and move the arm?

With apologies for the dark photos . . .

Photo 1: This is my li'l ol' lady arm (age 65 in the photo), around 4.5 years post weight loss, relaxed:



Oh, the horrorz! The fat, the loose skin, the flap, the flop, the wobble, the batwing/chicken wing! Scary!

Nah. I don't think so.

Photo 2: This that very same arm, mere moments later, flexed good and hard:



There's still some residual fat and loose skin, sure, but a lot of that flap turned out to be triceps muscle, right?

Please, please DO NOT hold out your relaxed arm as in photo 1, and assume that anything hang-y is fat or loose skin. It's not. I guarantee, *some* of the hang-y bit is muscle. How much of muscle, fat, skin - that varies individually.

Any long muscle can do this, under the right conditions. For example, some women fret about how wide their thighs look when they sit in a chair. The hamstrings are relaxed when sitting, so they're soft, slack. Pressed by body weight into the chair seat, they spread out horizontally, make thighs look wide. Consciously tighten the hamstrings in the back of the legs, and the body rises up in the chair, and the thighs get narrower because the hamstring muscle is tight.

We just don't notice it as much with other muscles. The arms are just easy to hold out straight, let gravity pull the slack muscle floor-ward, and display the wobble so we can beat ourselves up about it. Don't. Please don't.

End rant.

I do think you may see more "toning" as you loose to your weight goal, but I'd also say that any loose skin takes time to shrink, and it really only gets started once the fat from an area is mostly depleted. My loose skin kept shrinking at least into year 2 of maintaining a healthy weight, and maybe longer (hard to know because it shrank faster at first, the gradually slower as time went on.)

Dontcha hate how many aspects of this require patience, like weight loss, muscle gain, loose skin shrinkage . . . ?

So lowering my calorie deficit may be better overall even if it leads to slower weight loss since It will help w/muscle. That makes sense.

Thanks for all your tips!

You're doing great. Best wishes for continuing progress!

Retroguy2000

Re protein powder, absolutely it's a solid option. I'll buy whey powder from Optimum Nutrition Gold, MyProtein, Muscle Milk, Dymatize Iso, MuscleTech, whatever has a good sale at the time. Check the macros, you want at least 75% calories from protein, you don't want something that's loaded up with extra sugars and carbs. One scoop will probably get you 25g protein for 120-130 calories if you mix it with water, or a little more if you use some milk.