Do young adults in the UK not want to work?
Replies
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I don't get it, I was so excited to get my first job. Yeah It didn't pay great but I had my own money and I could buy things. I loved the responsibility.
Me too! :laugh: I remember the world being so filled with possibilities to me at the time. I felt SO motivated dreaming of all the ways I could make my life better :blushing: :laugh:0 -
I don't know what Blair was thinking of when he encouraged 50% of young people to have a degree. What the devil for? There aren't that many genuine graduate positions.
He was doing what all Governments do, thinking of what would look good during their 4-yr tenure. If you shove half of school leavers into university then they're not on the dole and your youth unemployment figures look bloody great. The fact that 5-6 years down the line you'll end up in a position where you have boatloads of graduates with not enough suitable roles becomes a problem for another Government to work out which, if you're in opposition at the time, means you've now got a big stick to beat them with....graduate unemployment.What we don't need in this country is any more "media studies" graduates who think they're the bees knees and think they can cruise straight into a senior position on the back of a a huge sense of entitlement and a mediocre degree.
Exactly..and the problem is all these graduates have a) been groomed to expect higher wages as they're now more qualified (even if it's a qualification in a subject employers don't have the slightest interest in) and b) are loaded up with debt they want to pay off. The last time I had my hair done I nearly choked when my hairdresser stated she was about to start a degree in hair colouring. What?? Why???? Why do you need a bloody degree in a vocational skill like hairdressing?? It's madness - if the vocational courses are good there's no need for it.0 -
Your question I think is based on your current understanding of how the world society works today. It is hard to imagine a time without money used to give incentive to work I understand. This asumes there is no desire beyond human basic needs, if that were true there would be no inventors, artists, writers, or teachers. People work with passion on things that interest them and challenge them. For example since this is MFP health and fitness become a lifestyle because they are passionate about it. An engineer becomes an engineer because he is passionate and interested in building various devices buildings, robotics, airplanes etc.. There is a whole community that contributes there efforts towards computer software linux, they are not paid for this.
The Venus project is about providing opportunity, and emphasizing individuality, creativity,innovativness, there is no uniformality. Opening opportunity for everyone to partake in the greatest challenge we could have. Improving the life and world for everyone. It is not communism socialism facisim capitalism it is a completely new way of social structure using science that has never been applied.
I was interested until I got to the part in bold - actually what you are describing is a more tradtional form of Anarchism and has been well described - perhaps with slight leanings towards mutualism. You haven't invented anything. :bigsmile:0 -
Oooh Good news (well for me anyway lol)
One of my customers just phoned to ask if his son can meet for for an interview tomorrow. He is 17yo, I have met him a couple of times before and he always seems like a pleasant and helpful lad...so fingers crossed
Just thought I would update anyone that has been following the thread.
This morning the son of one of my customers came for an interview, dressed smartly btw
. He arrived on time yay! He came over as very intelligent and interested in the company and its future. He has a few qualifications from school but is really keen to learn a trade.
So the long and short of it, is, that he is going to start with us next Tuesday. :bigsmile:
So, my advice to any one looking to recruit, it may be better to ask around customers, suppliers, friends etc rather than rely on advertising in the first instance.
As an interesting (or not) aside - I have only ever got one job in my life by seeing it advertised, responding to the advert etc etc - all the others have been by me approaching the company saying - I like what you do, gissajob (heres my CV).0 -
He was doing what all Governments do, thinking of what would look good during their 4-yr tenure. If you shove half of school leavers into university then they're not on the dole and your youth unemployment figures look bloody great. The fact that 5-6 years down the line you'll end up in a position where you have boatloads of graduates with not enough suitable roles becomes a problem for another Government to work out which, if you're in opposition at the time, means you've now got a big stick to beat them with....graduate unemployment.
Exactly..and the problem is all these graduates have a) been groomed to expect higher wages as they're now more qualified (even if it's a qualification in a subject employers don't have the slightest interest in) and b) are loaded up with debt they want to pay off. The last time I had my hair done I nearly choked when my hairdresser stated she was about to start a degree in hair colouring. What?? Why???? Why do you need a bloody degree in a vocational skill like hairdressing?? It's madness - if the vocational courses are good there's no need for it.
I agree. It has long been indoctrinated into youth that getting an education will raise your potential of wage. If you stay as just an high school graduate you can expect to always be at min wage, there are few options of rising out of it (like a factory worker backed by unions) So if a graduate has an expectation "thinking they're the bees knees and think they can cruise straight into a senior position" its because that is what was told to them, that is what they would expect going to school.
At a time it was true, however the market gets flooded. Which the system has migrated to serve profit interests of buisnesss. Don't need to train someone to do the job they should already have schooling to do it. No need for apprenticeship. Universities then feed on the aspect of profit and load people down with debt and push through as many students they can aquire lowering standards and quality of graduates. Soon the job market in areas are filled and therefore can lower wages to these job positions.0 -
I was interested until I got to the part in bold - actually what you are describing is a more tradtional form of Anarchism and has been well described - perhaps with slight leanings towards mutualism. You haven't invented anything. :bigsmile:
I did not come up with the concept and design. Perhaps since you seem interested in these type of systems it would be best to research the information presented by Jacque Fresco who has been working on the idea his whole life. (He is now 97yr old)
The concept of emphasizing individuality, creativity, innovativness is rooted in the understanding of how humans learn through there enviroment and cirumstances to create there values. He has several lectures were he explains these things.
Edit: I say this because I have not researched anything about anarchism or mutualism. But if you feel you have a firm grasp of understanding these and see holes in the venus project then get involved and ask questions help them to arrive at a solution to overall problem. This is the only way I see bringing a change.0 -
Narrow the margins either end - raise the minimum wage considerably and pay for it by taxing the fat cats and millionaires. Have a maximum earning capacity of, say, £250k. And a minimum of £30k.
Lmao
Now, back in the real world...
You've demonstrated my point, no system works, its a question of finding a system that's less bad then the alternatives.
I understand her reasoning for her statement. If you were able to enforce a minimum wage that would supply all a human's securities in life then you would not have problems filling jobs. You would also have less crime, due to less reward in robbery, theft, murder for money. Less stress to bring the horrible sides of ones personality to the surface. Why does someone who clean toilets have to be paid so little money they must suffer in there home life? Why is there time spent less valuable than someone who works an office job?
If you open the choices with appropriate reward then you will have a more stable system but different problems. Money is relative to the enviroment of available resource. If you balance the system properly someone who makes 250k would be considered the rich side of the economy and have the same luxuries as those who are considered rich in our current setup. There would be more money in the system to circulate for needed social systems like healthcare, retirement, roads, police, fire, schools etc. But this is all just a patch to fix current problems, I think in the long run it would just be corrupt and unbalanced again due to the use of a monetary system. Money is a tool used for control of resource and ultimately loopholes, exploits are always found and sought to increase advantage.
you do understand that increasing minimum wage, by definition, increases unemployment, right? and this provable with simple logic, it's not some economic theory.
plus you would reduce output.
Yes, employers rely on low wages to stay competative in the market. They feel they cannot sell a teddy bear for $30 if we raise min wage to high levels. But what im thinking is so what if its $30 instead of $10, if people have the correct amount of min security then they would be able to pay the $30. I am thinking in terms of percentages for all securities, the percentage of entertainment money should always be contained which is basicly the money that is used to fuel the economy for such items.
Have you ever heard of inflation? Yes, let's go there again. Then we can shoot interest rates up to 15-20% range and go through another terrible recession to kill the beast.0 -
I'm just ever so relieved to learn that the British are so lazy.
As an American, I support this message of reverse-continentism . . .
We all have bad teeth and drink tea too...
Keep it up and I'm throwing my freedom fries at you0 -
Oooh Good news (well for me anyway lol)
One of my customers just phoned to ask if his son can meet for for an interview tomorrow. He is 17yo, I have met him a couple of times before and he always seems like a pleasant and helpful lad...so fingers crossed
Just thought I would update anyone that has been following the thread.
This morning the son of one of my customers came for an interview, dressed smartly btw. He arrived on time yay! He came over as very intelligent and interested in the company and its future. He has a few qualifications from school but is really keen to learn a trade.
So the long and short of it, is, that he is going to start with us next Tuesday. :bigsmile:
So, my advice to any one looking to recruit, it may be better to ask around customers, suppliers, friends etc rather than rely on advertising in the first instance.
Fantastic news and best of luck to you both. :drinker:0 -
What we don't need in this country is any more "media studies" graduates who think they're the bees knees and think they can cruise straight into a senior position on the back of a a huge sense of entitlement and a mediocre degree.
Exactly..and the problem is all these graduates have a) been groomed to expect higher wages as they're now more qualified (even if it's a qualification in a subject employers don't have the slightest interest in) and b) are loaded up with debt they want to pay off. The last time I had my hair done I nearly choked when my hairdresser stated she was about to start a degree in hair colouring. What?? Why???? Why do you need a bloody degree in a vocational skill like hairdressing?? It's madness - if the vocational courses are good there's no need for it.
:huh: :noway:
Strikes me that any "course" after school now gets called a "degree" which serves nothing other than to further devalue academic qualifications.0 -
can I come work for you????
I have references from a Real Job in the states!
me too!!0 -
I'm just ever so relieved to learn that the British are so lazy.
As an American, I support this message of reverse-continentism . . .
We all have bad teeth and drink tea too...
Keep it up and I'm throwing my freedom fries at you
Ha, freedom..0 -
My friend in the UK said that he knows of TONS of families on their 3rd generation of having NEVER worked a single day. Evidently you can make more off welfare than working low end jobs.0
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My friend in the UK said that he knows of TONS of families on their 3rd generation of having NEVER worked a single day. Evidently you can make more off welfare than working low end jobs.
Do they like Jeremy Kyle?0 -
I don't know what Blair was thinking of when he encouraged 50% of young people to have a degree. What the devil for? There aren't that many genuine graduate positions.
He was doing what all Governments do, thinking of what would look good during their 4-yr tenure. If you shove half of school leavers into university then they're not on the dole and your youth unemployment figures look bloody great. The fact that 5-6 years down the line you'll end up in a position where you have boatloads of graduates with not enough suitable roles becomes a problem for another Government to work out which, if you're in opposition at the time, means you've now got a big stick to beat them with....graduate unemployment.What we don't need in this country is any more "media studies" graduates who think they're the bees knees and think they can cruise straight into a senior position on the back of a a huge sense of entitlement and a mediocre degree.
Exactly..and the problem is all these graduates have a) been groomed to expect higher wages as they're now more qualified (even if it's a qualification in a subject employers don't have the slightest interest in) and b) are loaded up with debt they want to pay off. The last time I had my hair done I nearly choked when my hairdresser stated she was about to start a degree in hair colouring. What?? Why???? Why do you need a bloody degree in a vocational skill like hairdressing?? It's madness - if the vocational courses are good there's no need for it.
Agreeing with everything here.0 -
Same as in Canada....My son is having to working two partime jobs, because he cannot get full time employment. He has no life, and that is what young folks want, a social life....0
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I'm sure there are a lot of people that do not want to work but I think there are more that do. When I was at university most of my friends were 18 and 19 and working. I wasn't because I was studying and raising a family which was enough for me to handle. Most of my friends in their early 20's are also working and out of the ones that aren't, most are full time mums and their partners go out to work.
Its a shame you've had this experience but I'm sure you will find the right person. Interviews are about finding a suitable employee right? so you will get bad candidates as well as good ones.0 -
I was watching the"news" and they were reporting a study out of the UK. They pretty much are saying that humans are not adults till the age of 25.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2430573/An-adult-18-Not-Adolescence-ends-25-prevent-young-people-getting-inferiority-complex.html0 -
I was watching the"news" and they were reporting a study out of the UK. They pretty much are saying that humans are not adults till the age of 25.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2430573/An-adult-18-Not-Adolescence-ends-25-prevent-young-people-getting-inferiority-complex.html
You know what's odd is car insurance companies have been saying that for decades those bean counters evidently added up the numbers and didnt see maturity until 25. Another little interesting tid bit the brain reaches full maturation at about 25.0 -
The Venus project is about providing opportunity, and emphasizing individuality, creativity,innovativness, there is no uniformality. Opening opportunity for everyone to partake in the greatest challenge we could have. Improving the life and world for everyone. It is not communism socialism facisim capitalism it is a completely new way of social structure using science that has never been applied.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KphWsnhZ4Ag
There also many other videos of Jacque Fresco and the venus project you can watch that will hopefully help understand what it is all about. As well as there website.
Interesting I personally dont know if humans can be that altruistic seems to be in our nature to always want more resources and desire the resources that we are lacking. It would be impossible to fairly divide all resources to every human on this planet. Nice idea though.0 -
The Venus project is about providing opportunity, and emphasizing individuality, creativity,innovativness, there is no uniformality. Opening opportunity for everyone to partake in the greatest challenge we could have. Improving the life and world for everyone. It is not communism socialism facisim capitalism it is a completely new way of social structure using science that has never been applied.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KphWsnhZ4Ag
There also many other videos of Jacque Fresco and the venus project you can watch that will hopefully help understand what it is all about. As well as there website.
Interesting I personally dont know if humans can be that altruistic seems to be in our nature to always want more resources and desire the resources that we are lacking. It would be impossible to fairly divide all resources to every human on this planet. Nice idea though.
We waste so much resource on products built for profit to be thrown away or broke down its called Planned Obsolescence. Like buying a new cell phone every 2 years. In the past before cell phones, telephones were quite efficient and lasted a long time due to design. From what I hear they use to be backed by the telephone company to be replaced of fixed, there was no motive for profit. If a car today was backed by the manufacturer to be repaired and replaced would they be using the same design? I think they would design them to remove the entire engine and place a new one in the vehicle when a problem arises. Send the consumer on there way while parts are replaced and refurbished in factory. I think there is enough resources on the planet even today.
www.phonebloks.com is a good example of how to make a product more viable without waste.
In nature you have grazing herds of animals, they on the surface appear to not be aggressive like a predator. If you removed the available resource that the grazing animal eats they will become aggressive and fight for food and territory that they rely on for there survival. When there is abundance there is passive behavior. I think it is difficult for people to imagine alturistic behavior in other humans because they are basing there opinion from observing our current society and history. Before there was monetary system people would fight for control of resource and land they relied on to survive. There was not an abundance. Today we can grow food in towers using hydroponic, aquaculture to create the abundance of food.0 -
What we don't need in this country is any more "media studies" graduates who think they're the bees knees and think they can cruise straight into a senior position on the back of a a huge sense of entitlement and a mediocre degree.
Exactly..and the problem is all these graduates have a) been groomed to expect higher wages as they're now more qualified (even if it's a qualification in a subject employers don't have the slightest interest in) and b) are loaded up with debt they want to pay off. The last time I had my hair done I nearly choked when my hairdresser stated she was about to start a degree in hair colouring. What?? Why???? Why do you need a bloody degree in a vocational skill like hairdressing?? It's madness - if the vocational courses are good there's no need for it.
:huh: :noway:
Strikes me that any "course" after school now gets called a "degree" which serves nothing other than to further devalue academic qualifications.
I agree. A member of my family "graduated" from their local community college. I think they did a BTEC in something. But they had a "graduation" ceremony - with mortar boards, gowns, the lot! LOL!
When recently discussing my daughter's aspirations of going to Cambridge to read Engineering, this person's mother proudly announced "Our *** can tell her all about what it's like studying for a degree!"
Hmm ... I think there's a difference between Smallville Technical College and the University of Cambridge!
Many people have unrealistic ideas of what their "degree" may be worth. Unless it's from a decent, red-brick university it's not really worth very much. Sorry but that's a reality. Mr Blair sadly gave our youngsters a bum steer on this one. If 50% of people have "degrees" that must mean that the "degrees" are easier to get than they were in the past, otherwise 50% of people would have had degrees in the past - especially when you didn't have to get into debt for them. If the degree is easier to get then it's not worth as much.0 -
My daughter is completing a chemistry degree. She's in uni 5 days a week, 8 am to 6 pm some days. She also holds down 2 jobs. I couldn't be prouder and she couldn't work harder.
Let's not single out 'young people'. I'm sure you could find shirkers across all age groups.0 -
I was interested until I got to the part in bold - actually what you are describing is a more tradtional form of Anarchism and has been well described - perhaps with slight leanings towards mutualism. You haven't invented anything. :bigsmile:
I did not come up with the concept and design. Perhaps since you seem interested in these type of systems it would be best to research the information presented by Jacque Fresco who has been working on the idea his whole life. (He is now 97yr old)
The concept of emphasizing individuality, creativity, innovativness is rooted in the understanding of how humans learn through there enviroment and cirumstances to create there values. He has several lectures were he explains these things.
Edit: I say this because I have not researched anything about anarchism or mutualism. But if you feel you have a firm grasp of understanding these and see holes in the venus project then get involved and ask questions help them to arrive at a solution to overall problem. This is the only way I see bringing a change.
Begin with William Godwin, then read Proudhon
Then you might want to move on to Bakunin and Most.
I'm not setting you a syllabus, those names should be enough to get you started.0 -
You cannot make such sweeping statements like that based on such bias. I wouldn't want to work for an employer like that.
Probably why you've had 2 interviews from 60 job applications.0 -
IMO benefits should be there to help you get by until you find a job, not to sit around and live your life how you want, waiting for the "perfect job" I do think the availability of state help, as well as how much some people get, contributes to some young people not wanting to work. Why work, when you can get the same amount or more doing nothing? Of course there's pride, but not everyone has that.
So back to the original question, beyond vague generalities about the purpose of benefits, which I think few would disagree with. The benefit system contains a number of perverse incentives, the clearest being a threshold at which it's just not cost effective to go into employment, but a wide range of others.
How would you structure it in such a way that it provides a safety net, rather than a choice that one might make?
Well it would be good I think to assess each case individually. I don't really think that's possible right now, given how many people are out of work but I'm sure a start could be made to that. For example, not every person and family is the same. To some, benefits are hardly anything to survive, which is why it's not necessarily good to just go slashing the amount you give. However, for some, people are living a life that I think is more than a person should be getting when they haven't got a job.
Secondly, if someone who is say long term unemployed, can only get minimum wage jobs, and they cannot afford to live on that. I would not be opposed to them taking such jobs and receiving the rest in benefits if that is what it takes. Surely it's better for the person to be out working, and receiving benefits to help them get by, than it is to not be working and claiming full benefits. Then if while they were in that job, sufficient help was provided to help them get training for something they actually enjoy, one day they will have a chance to do that and to support themselves fully.
Sure, some people will never want to work, but by making them take a job and providing the rest in benefits, they will never have the financial issue, and since they're working anyway, you may as well work towards something you enjoy right?
So a bit like the current system then?
The one point I'd make is that an employment choice has to be made by the employer, not the state. So we can never force people in to work unless we have large state industries for the unskilled.0 -
The Venus project is about providing opportunity, and emphasizing individuality, creativity,innovativness, there is no uniformality. Opening opportunity for everyone to partake in the greatest challenge we could have. Improving the life and world for everyone. It is not communism socialism facisim capitalism it is a completely new way of social structure using science that has never been applied.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KphWsnhZ4Ag
There also many other videos of Jacque Fresco and the venus project you can watch that will hopefully help understand what it is all about. As well as there website.
Interesting I personally dont know if humans can be that altruistic seems to be in our nature to always want more resources and desire the resources that we are lacking. It would be impossible to fairly divide all resources to every human on this planet. Nice idea though.
looking at it from an evolutionary perspective (not having read the above article, just discussing altruism in humans generally) we're a heck of a lot more altruistic than most other species. Other primates don't nurse each other back to health when injured, and they don't share food with each other anything like as much as humans do... bonobos are one of our two closes relatives (the other being the common chimp) and they are more likely to share food and are more empathetic than common chimps but that's mostly because their entire social system is based on sex, i.e. using sex to resolve conflicts and facilitate food sharing.
Humans are extremely altruistic when you look at it in this light, i.e. risking life and limb to help other humans, on a pretty regular basis on a worldwide scale. And the evolution of this kind of behaviour is not limited to modern humans, there's evidence for it (i.e. caring for injured, elderly and vulnerable members of the group who would not have been able to contribute in terms of hunting/gathering) in neanderthals and in early Homo erectus too, so it's something that seems to go back a long way and be fundamentally human.
That said, humans are primates and primates on the whole are self-serving, manipulative, devious, bullying gits, who should not be trusted. They may be co-operative and social, but only in as much as it benefits the individual and will sneakily deceive each other, steal from each other, and have illicit sex (e.g. low ranking males having sex with females out of sight of the dominant individuals) and all kinds of skullduggery, if they think they can get away with it. These kinds of behaviours are more primitive than the altruistic behaviours that, for example, led neanderthals to care for sick, injured and elderly members of the group even though they weren't capable of giving anything back.... but as humans we have both, and humans seem to walk a fine line between altruism and selfishness, with certain individuals falling more on one side of that line than the other.0 -
Interesting Neandermagnon thanks! I think if you remove the main causes that lead to the selfish behavior in an environment it will allow human altruistic behavior to dominate. In social aspect that being the abundance and availability of resources, securities needed for living.0
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I am very fortunate in that I have a business that is relatively successful in the UK
This last few weeks I have been holding interviews to fill a position..the wage is only slightly above minimum wage, but, it is a little above.
I am looking to train this person up into a better skill.
I have not been looking for a rocket scientist or brain surgeon, just someone that would seem to have reliability and some work ethic.
5 people never bothered to turn up for the interviews...3 were late... 1 had the mother phone up to make an excuse.. a few people turned up wearing jeans....2 people actually told me they had to come for the interviews or they would lose their entitlement to social security benefits...
I was hoping to try to help someone from benefits into the workplace. Is it that young adults do not want to work?
Maybe you would be better off posting this on a forum that is aimed at getting people back into work.
A job centre forum perhaps?
As for people turning up just for the fact they won't get their benefits stopped is the work programs people's faults. If you was in a situation where you either go to an interview (regardless whether you're suited for the job or not) and get your pittance every week/fortnight, or not turn up, then starve for the next week or so, then you would turn up, despite wanting the job.0 -
So back to the original question, beyond vague generalities about the purpose of benefits, which I think few would disagree with. The benefit system contains a number of perverse incentives, the clearest being a threshold at which it's just not cost effective to go into employment, but a wide range of others.
How would you structure it in such a way that it provides a safety net, rather than a choice that one might make?
Narrow the margins either end - raise the minimum wage considerably and pay for it by taxing the fat cats and millionaires. Have a maximum earning capacity of, say, £250k. And a minimum of £30k.
I'll have to leave you to crunch the numbers... I'm going to bed.
*****In Tomorrow's MFP Chit Chat Forum: World Peace - How do we achieve THAT, exactly?*****
But thats Socialism! *gasp*
And apparently that would lead to economic meltdown. Glad nobody told the Chinese....
did you mean to imply China has a left leaning economic system?
the Chinese market is more free and more capitalist than any western county has ever been0
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