Do young adults in the UK not want to work?
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You are beginning to annoy me with your thoughts here. You farm sheep to generate a surplus value! I bet the lambs feel exploited for your financial gain! What makes you any different form OP???
*puts hand up*
Is the answer that he's not exploiting his own species?
Once again you are missing the point in favour of sarcasm, as you have consistently done throughout this thread. Businesses have to generate a profit to grow and employ more people. Hiring people has to be carefully budgeted for. OP has already clearly demonstrated that she is not creaming of the profits and living it up in somewhere exotic. The package outlined above represents a serious opportunity for someone who wants it, with a significant investment from the company to make it happen. Anyone who is serious about getting a job should be able to see that, but if people won't even turn up for the interview they will never know.
Yep. This. Exactly.
I've been watching this thread and some of the comments are so disheartening. Small business owners, like the OP, are the backbone of a healthy economy. Just because you read about a few select CEOs who regularly rake in millions, does NOT mean that those types are in the majority. Most entrepreneurs sacrifice their own earnings to keep a new business growing so that, eventually, they can reap the rewards of their hard work AND employ people.
You can demand higher wages all day long. Surely a business can pay higher wages, but that's going to have to offset somewhere (read: higher prices). The higher prices go, the higher wages go...and so on, into a viscous cycle. No one wants that kind of inflation.
The OP is listing an entry level job. She's paying above the minimum wage. Her candidates are really young and just starting out. I fail to see the villain here.0 -
Im on my phone and don't have access to my laptop with this stuff bookmarked. No there was no inclusion of population or geographic mobility. it was just a us aggregate data set and showed % of people moving across income quintiles. and data stopped on like 2006. but it still was eye opening despite the flaws. the job mobility in the UK is certainly worse though
The whole world changed in late 2007, early 2008.0 -
Some thoughts on your post - the vast majority of the 'free courses' are number ticking exercises originally initiated by the-blair-smiler to reduce the numbers listed on the dole, from what I know. They are not useful from everything I've seen.I havent read through all this thread but I would give my back teeth for a job right now! If I cant make an interview I always let them know and have had it rearranged in the past there is no excuse for bad manners.
What can be useful is companies that offer things like fork lift courses for those on job seekers for free.
I wouldn't want a CV that was assisted by the job centre. If they are that good at selling themselves, you'd expect them to be in a better job themselves.
The internet has massive resources on this. I dropped my CV off for another contract last night - unfortunately only took about an hour and a half updating it which is nowhere near what I'd consider enough as the format still isn't amazing - as it's for a reasonably well paid position (which may just be a honey pot anyway).
For practice in interviews, a good start would be just getting your friends and family to do mock interviews with you. Hell, get people on chat roulette to do it! I've been meaning to go along to some 'toastmasters' or similar clubs - because I know my presentation skills (be it presenting myself or a subject) aren't as fluid as they could be.
If you don't mind work you're doing, keep an eye out for the job adverts that are there week in week out. Most areas seem to have some companies ALWAYS looking for staff (for instance a wood door factory I worked at for a bit).
Do consider getting your CV set up appropriately for the work - making a big thing about a degree when applying for said wood door factory probably isn't a great start!
Finally I don't think anyone is claiming it is 'everyone' - but it's certainly easy to see a good number of people like this.0 -
I used to work in HR. My first question is how are you advertizing the job? I don't mean just where you placed the ads but what you are doing to get the attention of qualified people?
It is possible to find the right people, but you will need to use networking channels and new technology to find the person you want. Using a shotgun method (like craigslist) is not going to get the attention of quality applicants. Any of the big online job boards are going get you keyboard warriors, and not the real go-getters in the job market.
I would start by asking your best customers if they would be interested in a job. If you have a store front, put up a "Help Wanted" sign. If you are an online business, use your social media channels to advertise the job opening. Put an update on your website and in your email newsletter that you are looking for new team members. Try to get word out to your competition that you are growing and looking for new employees. You may be able to steal away some of their people (who are already educated in your industry, thereby reducing the costs of getting your new hire up to speed).
Good luck, and I hope you find just the right person for the job!
I think I may have found the `right person` I have a 17 yo guy, the son of a customer.
He is coming for an interview tomorrow and I am 100% sure that he will be the person that I need, I have met him before and he is a really nice lad.
I am now hoping that I can put him on a trail of work, and making the most of himself, but most of all that he enjoys his job and I can help him to further his career. (Hopefully with me)0 -
All the way up to 'good' schools in middle class areas, they were pretty safe at one time. Even these students are struggling now... everyone's got a degree and we're in a worldwide recession. If you throw a breadroll at the staff in McDonalds' you'll most likely hit a graduate.
Well this falls at the feet of good old Tone and his ridiculous notion that 50% of school leavers should go on to university. Queue pointless degrees and the problem of more graduates than graduate places. He also forgot the little issue of funding; whilst only 10% of school leavers went to university the education could remain free...knock it up to 40-50% and free university education becomes unfundable by central government. So now we have kids with worthless degrees AND 40k of debt.
Where is the good vocational education? Totally missing at school level. Where are proper apprenticeships? Gone, because successive governments have looked at them simply as a way to keep the unemployment figures of youngsters low rather than actually give them a grounding.
The problem for many employers is that the investment needed to knock a lot of them into shape is enormous and our current world is competitive in the extreme so most have neither the time nor the capital to take total a total raw material kid on, especially if they're not demonstrating any real enthusiasm.0 -
I don't agree with the exploitation of others for financial gain.... making someone else live on the minimum wage so you can fund the enormous mortgage on your tasteless 4-bed detached in some snotty village, your golf club membership, BMW and holidays abroad? Well one HAS to keep up with the neighbours, after all... Nah. Immoral.So this person has worked hard and build up a small business and is now able to offer someone a job, and she gets a load of **** of people. Lovely.
I say STICK IT to the man.
Wow. Running a business and offering an income to others is now immoral exploitation? Just wow... :huh:
Have you ever considered you folk can only afford to say "stick it" because the rest of us have to pay for that?
I see you have nicely avoided my point about surplus value......
You are beginning to annoy me with your thoughts here. You farm sheep to generate a surplus value! I bet the lambs feel exploited for your financial gain! What makes you any different form OP???
The point is this:
There is no such thing as altruism within the workings of capital. You do not build up a business in order that you can employ people because it is a 'nice thing to do'. You do this because (hopefully) you have done your sums and you have worked out that having employees would generate more revenue for the business than it would cost the business to employ them. If they are cost-neutral or cost-negative, then you have not costed your staff correctly. You may have 'incidentally' done a 'good thing' by creating a job, but that is not the purpose of taking on employees, the purpose is to create more revenue for the company through the surplus-value of the employees. If you are the business owner the reward is in your bank account - you shouldn't need to have people telling you what a nice person you are for, essentially creating more wealth for yourself.
I farm sheep to generate a profit. They are my stock (one might argue that they are the original 'stock'). If I build up my business to the point where I want to employ somebody I will do it because to employ somebody will generate me more revenue than not employing somebody. I wont expect society to pat me on the back for making myself more wealthy - my bank balance will be reward enough.0 -
capitalism being exploitation is true only in the minds of marxists. that logic requires a complete exclusion of the concept of individualism and property rights. capitalism is merely the natural system under a free market where individual property is protected by law. it can only be considered exploitation if you reject the concept of ownership, as Marxists did
Anarcho-capitalism on MFP....now I have seen it all.....0 -
I don't agree with the exploitation of others for financial gain.... making someone else live on the minimum wage so you can fund the enormous mortgage on your tasteless 4-bed detached in some snotty village, your golf club membership, BMW and holidays abroad? Well one HAS to keep up with the neighbours, after all... Nah. Immoral.So this person has worked hard and build up a small business and is now able to offer someone a job, and she gets a load of **** of people. Lovely.
I say STICK IT to the man.
Wow. Running a business and offering an income to others is now immoral exploitation? Just wow... :huh:
Have you ever considered you folk can only afford to say "stick it" because the rest of us have to pay for that?
I see you have nicely avoided my point about surplus value......
You are beginning to annoy me with your thoughts here. You farm sheep to generate a surplus value! I bet the lambs feel exploited for your financial gain! What makes you any different form OP???
The point is this:
There is no such thing as altruism within the workings of capital. You do not build up a business in order that you can employ people because it is a 'nice thing to do'. You do this because (hopefully) you have done your sums and you have worked out that having employees would generate more revenue for the business than it would cost the business to employ them. If they are cost-neutral or cost-negative, then you have not costed your staff correctly. You may have 'incidentally' done a 'good thing' by creating a job, but that is not the purpose of taking on employees, the purpose is to create more revenue for the company through the surplus-value of the employees. If you are the business owner the reward is in your bank account - you shouldn't need to have people telling you what a nice person you are for, essentially creating more wealth for yourself.
I farm sheep to generate a profit. They are my stock (one might argue that they are the original 'stock'). If I build up my business to the point where I want to employ somebody I will do it because to employ somebody will generate me more revenue than not employing somebody. I wont expect society to pat me on the back for making myself more wealthy - my bank balance will be reward enough.
I take your point that entrepreneurs do not build a business and employ people just because it is a good thing to do. There are many reasons and yes, that includes making more money. But, just like an employee, if you take the risk to make the investment, put in the hours, put up with the hassles, you are going to want a higher return and make your investment in staff and their equipment (desk, phone, computer, materials, car, training etc, etc) pay. There is nothing wrong in this. Also, OP was not asking for people to tell her how wonderful she was for creating a job. In my experience, they don't want it and are more interested in protecting their investment (ie their business). As you say, the investment has to pay for itself and the reward is the extra profit. OP's point was that young adults don't seem to want to make the effort!0 -
All the way up to 'good' schools in middle class areas, they were pretty safe at one time. Even these students are struggling now... everyone's got a degree and we're in a worldwide recession. If you throw a breadroll at the staff in McDonalds' you'll most likely hit a graduate.
Well this falls at the feet of good old Tone and his ridiculous notion that 50% of school leavers should go on to university. Queue pointless degrees and the problem of more graduates than graduate places. He also forgot the little issue of funding; whilst only 10% of school leavers went to university the education could remain free...knock it up to 40-50% and free university education becomes unfundable by central government. So now we have kids with worthless degrees AND 40k of debt.
Where is the good vocational education? Totally missing at school level. Where are proper apprenticeships? Gone, because successive governments have looked at them simply as a way to keep the unemployment figures of youngsters low rather than actually give them a grounding.
The problem for many employers is that the investment needed to knock a lot of them into shape is enormous and our current world is competitive in the extreme so most have neither the time nor the capital to take total a total raw material kid on, especially if they're not demonstrating any real enthusiasm.
Oh so true, unfortunately.0 -
capitalism is merely the natural system under a free market where individual property is protected by law
'Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man'Anarcho-capitalism on MFP....now I have seen it all.....
What IS that, exactly...?Where is the good vocational education? Totally missing at school level. Where are proper apprenticeships? Gone, because successive governments have looked at them simply as a way to keep the unemployment figures of youngsters low rather than actually give them a grounding.
Gone with 'Old' Labour's 'academic opportunites for all' mantra, the introduction of the comprehensives and the closing of grammars & technical colleges. Plus the raising of the school leaving age. Years ago I taught Science to bottom set (set 5 of 5) Y11. They knew they were wasting their time, I knew I was wasting their time! It was beyond ridiculous. They were disillusioned, bored, fed up. Kids that should have been in vocational colleges just trapped in hot classrooms for no purpose. It were cruel!I do not get paid as a government analyst...just saying..off topic I know but sometimes I feel like I work for the government (unpaid) grumble
Sell the business (which you are CLEARLY using as a distraction technique to avoid looking at your life) - take some time off, enjoy your grandchildren (do you have grandchildren?) then fall in love, go on a cruise and become the person you wanted to be at 14 years of age.0 -
capitalism being exploitation is true only in the minds of marxists. that logic requires a complete exclusion of the concept of individualism and property rights. capitalism is merely the natural system under a free market where individual property is protected by law. it can only be considered exploitation if you reject the concept of ownership, as Marxists did
Anarcho-capitalism on MFP....now I have seen it all.....
Ah, now we see the violence inherent in the system . . .0 -
Can I just add a little side note?
Each month I have to fill in EC sales lists.
Each month I have to fill in HMRC wage/insurance details
Every 3 months I have to file a VAT return.
At the end of every tax year I I have to fill in forms and pay an accountant for her services.
Then I have to pay 20% corporation tax on any profits I make. In a UK market that is being sunk by the EU...but that is another topic
I do not get paid as a government analyst...just saying..off topic I know but sometimes I feel like I work for the government (unpaid) :grumble:0 -
capitalism is merely the natural system under a free market where individual property is protected by law
'Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man'Anarcho-capitalism on MFP....now I have seen it all.....
What IS that, exactly...?
Anarcho-captalism or 'market Anarchism '(and 'true' Anarchists would be annoyed at me for even calling it that, because they refute that it has anything to do with Anarchism) is the advocation of the elimination of the state machinery in favour of individual sovreignty within a free market society.
Basically - it is the belief that the market is king and should be allowed to exist unregulated and this, through the process of capitalist competition will eliminate products/services that society does not need.
It is kind of like 'extreme Keynesianism'0 -
While I'm on a ranting-roll.
After the discussion of all young kids getting school dinners paid for, I had a look at the benefits available for someone just over the old cut-off point for free dinners at around £16k.
A couple with one person earning this 16.1k (£.7.70ph for a 40 hour week) who had a kid and was renting would get the same income as a childless person (or couple of course) not claiming earning over £30k!0 -
...Also, OP was not asking for people to tell her how wonderful she was for creating a job. In my experience, they don't want it and are more interested in protecting their investment (ie their business). As you say, the investment has to pay for itself and the reward is the extra profit. OP's point was that young adults don't seem to want to make the effort!
She was in a way - Her Op reads to me along the lines of "Look at how I have created a job, for which I have offered x salary" (expecting praise)
and then
Because the 5 applicants I have chosen to interview have all been lacking *all* youth are idle layabouts.
I generally take more issue with the second part because I dislike it when people say: all people of arbitiary category I have created (age, race, gender, sexuality, hair length, choice of recreational beverage....etc.) "are like this" or "do thing x".0 -
capitalism being exploitation is true only in the minds of marxists. that logic requires a complete exclusion of the concept of individualism and property rights. capitalism is merely the natural system under a free market where individual property is protected by law. it can only be considered exploitation if you reject the concept of ownership, as Marxists did
Anarcho-capitalism on MFP....now I have seen it all.....
Anarcho capitalism is my favorite topic of discussion. Way beyond the heads of most mfp posters though0 -
Well it is sad to say but this is not just a UK problem! The US is the same way!
^^ It's true. I've been working full time since I was 17 (over 10 years ago, and worked full time all throughout college), I had an employee come in the other day for an interview and to turn in apps in ripped up jeans and t-shirts... really? that's your best? Granted, I am now 28, but I would NEVER show up like that to an interview or even to turn paperwork in.
Call me old fashioned... But it's the truth. I also give a good grip handshake, where as most women barely touch your hand to shake hands. I find it a sign of weakness or fear, but that's just me.0 -
The solution to the problem is simple: Pay a higher wage. That is the way it is supposed to work--pay more and get a better quality employee. Unfortunately, most employers want to get a high quality employee for the min wage possible.
Who wants to work their *kitten* off for min wage when that isn't even enough to cover basic needs? What amazes me is the number of people out there who are willing to work their *kitten* off for minimum wage.0 -
...Also, OP was not asking for people to tell her how wonderful she was for creating a job. In my experience, they don't want it and are more interested in protecting their investment (ie their business). As you say, the investment has to pay for itself and the reward is the extra profit. OP's point was that young adults don't seem to want to make the effort!
She was in a way - Her Op reads to me along the lines of "Look at how I have created a job, for which I have offered x salary" (expecting praise)
and then
Because the 5 applicants I have chosen to interview have all been lacking *all* youth are idle layabouts.
I generally take more issue with the second part because I dislike it when people say: all people of arbitiary category I have created (age, race, gender, sexuality, hair length, choice of recreational beverage....etc.) "are like this" or "do thing x".
Steve, I certainly do not expect praise for creating a job opportunity. I would like to envisage a young person taking an advantage to work instead of claiming benefits.
I know many people old and young do not want to claim benefits, but my impressions of young adults is from my original post...which is sad. bearing in mind the posts from other young people that are seeking work. I have 2 sons that have been through the mill trying to find work also.
I have never suggested or inferred that young people are `idle or layabouts`
My intention is to give a job opening to a young person that may have no qualifications and give them a career opportunity.
There has certainly been no mention of race/gender/sexuality etc from me0 -
Minimum wage can do you pretty well.
I do agree with the sentiment to pay more if you're not getting the people you want.
However, this isn't congruent with the many people you see saying they'll take any job.
Unfortunately often it's a case of employers and employees getting messed about the genuine on both sides suffering.0
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