Was this rude or not?

PJ_73

Its also pretty hypocritical, because if there is something Brits are famous for it's the lack of foreign language skills and general arrogance in assuming "well everyone speaks English anyway!".

Sweeping generalisation.

justanotherloser007

I am not on one side or the other but how can you have a private conversation out in the public?

Notprivate in the sense of discussing sensitive matters but it was just a chat between 3 people, we weren't making an address to a larger group. It can't just be us ethnics who have chats between ourselves, regardless of language.

English is my first language. Me and the hubby can have private conversations in public that no one but us understands. (18 years of marriage = we can refer to a lot of things that no one else has ever seen or heard.)

That being said, I think private conversations in your native language are great! I live in Houston, Texas - so I would say that. So would just about anyone around here. I go to Walgreens, and there are about 7 different written languages. In my Church, there are - I don't even know how many! The priest is Polish, so sometimes even he is dicey to understand. But, no problem. Confession? Well, obviously go to the priest who doesn't speak English

We had a day a few years ago that made a huge impact on Houston. All the immigrants didn't show up for work for one day. No immigrants = no food. Are you kidding? We are not down with that, we like our Mexican food, and all the other foods.

As a religious teacher, I get a little concerned when a child has to relate information for me to the parents. Mostly, because he/she could say whatever he/she wants (kids, they have a sense of humor). I know some words in Spanish. Some Spanish people will not speak Spanish with me, I assume because they want to learn English better? Me and my lawn guy Fernando play a game: I speak horrible Spanish, and he speaks horrible English. Fun game, I hope we both learn something.

My favorite moment in teaching class was saying, "I took two years of Spanish and all I remember is 'Mi burro sabe mas que tu'" Over half of the students fell out of their chairs. So, what would be the main language? I have no idea. I tend to call Texas - Texico.

BurningAway

Yes, he was rude. But...were you talking really loudly in Spanish? I'm just asking because it can be annoying when you hear another language you don't understand when it's spoken very loudly. Kudos to you for not slapping him. :flowerforyou:

Oh well its annoying when i hear people speaking a language i do understand loudly, speaking a foreign language loudly has nothing to do with the level of annoyance. We are all human and if they want to speak spanish as loud as an announcer they should be allowed too. :flowerforyou:

danasings

You weren't being rude. I would have gave him the middle finger. I'm pretty sure that's something people who speak pretty much any language can understand.

^This. But I think in England it's supposed to be the "V" sign. (Not as in victory, but as in "up yours.") :laugh:

And that guy was a total *kitten*.

EvgeniZyntx

OP, you were not rude. The guy had issues/bad day/not your problem.

But what i find rudest is when you walk into a staff room and people CONTINUE to talk in their own language when its just you and them in the rude, i find that EXTREMLEY rude.

To this I want to say - you're absolutely right, it's inappropriate not to switch languages when someone you know (or will know ie acquaintance) who doesn't speak it has come into the room.

It's something I'm always conscious of. I grew up with a different language at home, but learned English from books/TV/ friends /school, so I was more aware of it than some people I knew growing up, who immigrated (I was born in my country of citizenship).

However, and please note *this is not an excuse* -- it's a weird thing, but oftentimes people are able to express things differently in other languages (especially if the non-English language is their 1st or 1.5st language). It's a whole other mood, even like different parts of your personality get teased out. So it's not just switching away from the language, it's switching from, well not exactly an identity, but kind of -- definitely a different feel. And if there are a number of people there who are also speaking that language, the pull of that familiarity is quite strong; not everyone is skillful at pulling away from it. Still rude, I agree, just wanted to maybe explain it a bit (not sure I did).

It's a fluid thing. Number of conversations going on, society, expectations.
I live in a multilingual world, my parents spoke 5 or 6 languages, I speak 3 fluently a fourth well and a smattering of others. If in entering a room/conversation we try to be inclusive and code switch as much as possible. But it does happen that we are with people where no common language exists for the group - clustering or translation occurs.

Code switching it's a thing.

anemoneprose

OP, you were not rude. The guy had issues/bad day/not your problem.

But what i find rudest is when you walk into a staff room and people CONTINUE to talk in their own language when its just you and them in the rude, i find that EXTREMLEY rude.

To this I want to say - you're absolutely right, it's inappropriate not to switch languages when someone you know (or will know ie acquaintance) who doesn't speak it has come into the room.

It's something I'm always conscious of. I grew up with a different language at home, but learned English from books/TV/ friends /school, so I was more aware of it than some people I knew growing up, who immigrated (I was born in my country of citizenship).

However, and please note *this is not an excuse* -- it's a weird thing, but oftentimes people are able to express things differently in other languages (especially if the non-English language is their 1st or 1.5st language). It's a whole other mood, even like different parts of your personality get teased out. So it's not just switching away from the language, it's switching from, well not exactly an identity, but kind of -- definitely a different feel. And if there are a number of people there who are also speaking that language, the pull of that familiarity is quite strong; not everyone is skillful at pulling away from it. Still rude, I agree, just wanted to maybe explain it a bit (not sure I did).

It's a fluid thing. Number of conversations going on, society, expectations.
I live in a multilingual world, my parents spoke 5 or 6 languages, I speak 3 fluently a fourth well and a smattering of others. If in entering a room/conversation we try to be inclusive and code switch as much as possible. But it does happen that we are with people where no common language exists for the group - clustering or translation occurs.

Code switching it's a thing.

Of course it is. It sounds like your people are mobile and cosmopolitan. My early experiences were among a homogenous, geographically bounded community of recent immigrants. Easy code switching, yes, for the 1st-generation citizens; less true for those who went through the transition in middle age or later. (And more true for those with professions and a good education, neither of which for example my grandmother possessed.) I can code switch, and speak three languages fluently, she can't.

EvgeniZyntx

You weren't being rude. I would have gave him the middle finger. I'm pretty sure that's something people who speak pretty much any language can understand.

^This. But I think in England it's supposed to be the "V" sign. (Not as in victory, but as in "up yours.") :laugh:

And that guy was a total *kitten*.

I have also heard that the two finger salute comes from an insult from archers to show the French that they still had their two fingers to shoot. The myth was that the French that captured archers cut off these fingers.

danasings

You weren't being rude. I would have gave him the middle finger. I'm pretty sure that's something people who speak pretty much any language can understand.

^This. But I think in England it's supposed to be the "V" sign. (Not as in victory, but as in "up yours.") :laugh:

And that guy was a total *kitten*.

I have also heard that the two finger salute comes from an insult from archers to show the French that they still had their two fingers to shoot. The myth was that the French that captured archers cut off these fingers.

I learn something new every day here!! :flowerforyou:

EvgeniZyntx

OP, you were not rude. The guy had issues/bad day/not your problem.

But what i find rudest is when you walk into a staff room and people CONTINUE to talk in their own language when its just you and them in the rude, i find that EXTREMLEY rude.

To this I want to say - you're absolutely right, it's inappropriate not to switch languages when someone you know (or will know ie acquaintance) who doesn't speak it has come into the room.

It's something I'm always conscious of. I grew up with a different language at home, but learned English from books/TV/ friends /school, so I was more aware of it than some people I knew growing up, who immigrated (I was born in my country of citizenship).

However, and please note *this is not an excuse* -- it's a weird thing, but oftentimes people are able to express things differently in other languages (especially if the non-English language is their 1st or 1.5st language). It's a whole other mood, even like different parts of your personality get teased out. So it's not just switching away from the language, it's switching from, well not exactly an identity, but kind of -- definitely a different feel. And if there are a number of people there who are also speaking that language, the pull of that familiarity is quite strong; not everyone is skillful at pulling away from it. Still rude, I agree, just wanted to maybe explain it a bit (not sure I did).

It's a fluid thing. Number of conversations going on, society, expectations.
I live in a multilingual world, my parents spoke 5 or 6 languages, I speak 3 fluently a fourth well and a smattering of others. If in entering a room/conversation we try to be inclusive and code switch as much as possible. But it does happen that we are with people where no common language exists for the group - clustering or translation occurs.

Code switching it's a thing.

Of course it is. It sounds like your people are mobile and cosmopolitan. My early experiences were among a homogenous, geographically bounded community of recent immigrants. Easy code switching, yes, for the 1st-generation citizens; less true for those who went through the transition in middle age or later. (And more true for those with professions and a good education, neither of which for example my grandmother possessed.) I can code switch, and speak three languages fluently, she can't.

Understood - and agree. my first experience in multilingual issues like that was working with the Huichole Indians teaching Spanish as my military service - I lost all Huichole and Nahuatl - so unfortunate. The elders had a very hard time learning Spanish.

Yes, we are very mobile - my brothers and I live in three/four different countries and I'm the immigrant son of an immigrant son ... Going back 3-4 generations. It's almost genetic. I don't expect my daughters to stay in a single country.

I'm sorry the OP experienced this - honestly I've only experienced it myself a few times. It's always surprising - rare is the time I've had a good retort. Don't let the stupid poison your experience.

hajenkatt

In my experience, I find it interesting how reactions vary by language. My husband and I will sometimes speak Swedish out in public to each other or to our kids. We have been asked on countless occasions what language we are speaking followed by comments on how "cool" or "amazing" it is for us to be raising our kids in a bilingual household, or that I (the American) learned to speak my husband's language. On the other hand, I have been with Spanish-speaking friends who have been told and to stop speaking Spanish to their kids, that it will only hinder them in school and that they would do their kids a favor to only speak English at home.

So, which is it? Raising bilingual kids promotes brain development and other benefits, or it's detrimental to a person? From my experience, if you are speaking a language others see as unusual or exotic you are doing something amazing and is acceptable, while Spanish (here in the US) is seen as a threat or lack of assimilation. It is irritating and hypocritical.

emmawoolf84

:sick: That guy was a TOTAL d*ck

joselo2

In my experience, I find it interesting how reactions vary by language. My husband and I will sometimes speak Swedish out in public to each other or to our kids. We have been asked on countless occasions what language we are speaking followed by comments on how "cool" or "amazing" it is for us to be raising our kids in a bilingual household, or that I (the American) learned to speak my husband's language. On the other hand, I have been with Spanish-speaking friends who have been told and to stop speaking Spanish to their kids, that it will only hinder them in school and that they would do their kids a favor to only speak English at home.

So, which is it? Raising bilingual kids promotes brain development and other benefits, or it's detrimental to a person? From my experience, if you are speaking a language others see as unusual or exotic you are doing something amazing and is acceptable, while Spanish (here in the US) is seen as a threat or lack of assimilation. It is irritating and hypocritical.

I think Swedish are likely to be seen as cosmopolitan visitors. Spanish (also Polish, Hindi, etc.) aren't seen the same because they are associated with 'undesirable' immigrants. That is what I think anyway.

To be fair, there are less Puerto Rican, Mexican etc immigrants in the UK, so I suppose here Spanish may equally be seen as a visitor from Spain. I could be wrong but I cannot help but think the fact that we are not white was part of it. If we looked like Spaniards rather than Caribbeans it might have been received better, putting us in the former class!

TamaraKat

Happens to me to - but with Hungarian. When I speak in Hungarian, everyone eyes me off suspiciously

stefjc

Dual language kids tend to be slower off the mark... when they get to 6 or 7 years old they catch up and then they tend to overtake their peer group. I can't for the life of me find the piece I was reading on this, but it is a well known phenomenon, apparently.

As for those public language oopses:

My parents did the Brit thing and retired to Spain. They got into a little car accident. They got out of the car and my dad asked mum if she was alright. The bloke who had hot them started shouting, in Spanish, that dad had been driving like a lunatic, didn't know how to drive in Spain.

The local police arrived and then the armed police... they spoke to the Spanish guy who told them that dad had just driven at him at speed, was a total menace, bloody tourist etc.

Both policemen turned and greeted my parents by name... they responded in Spanish... the policemen both charged him with different offences under their separate policing responsibilities

The policemen were cousins, son and nephew of the woman who is the matriarch of the village my parents live in. Dad relates this story with great relish, as often as possible. Presumably to prove is is not a stereotypical Brit.

OP - your monster shouter was rude. Don't worry about it!

vtmoon

We have asshats over here stateside as well that say the same thing. I just saw a bumper sticker saying something like that the other day.

I think if you're going to move to a country, you should learn the common language of that country. I think that is very important.

However, I see nothing wrong with speaking one's native language with other speakers of that language even once you've learned the common language.

That said, if you're a tourist in a country, I wouldn't expect you to speak the language.

What do you mean when you say "move to a country"? Cause we have bases all over the world and not many Americans try to learn the language. Same goes with American Expats in other places. We just expect everyone to speak English.

NonnyMary

OK opinions appreciated! I was walking down the street with one of my sisters and one of my brothers, in the town centre. We were speaking in Spanish as it is our first language and the way we naturally speak to each other.

Some guy comes and says 'Hey this is England, speak English please. If you are coming here, you have to speak like us'. He was kinda annoyed.

Were we being rude? If I am in company I try to avoid speaking a language one party doesn't understand, as it can make them feel very excluded, I think it rude. The only time is difficult if there is no shared language between two people. But surely a private conversation is OK, since people travel places without knowing the langauge... do Brits never speak English when out in public in Spanish speaking countries? I am sure they do.

Should we have done it more disretely, not done it at all? What do you think? xx

Hmm,, so your in England? I dont know because Im in America, are they more stricter there about the language? And are they more upset about foreigners taking over nowadays? Here is America there are issues about that concern.

teamAmelia

You were in a public place, so I don't think that it was rude. HE was rude.

What I can't stand is when I'm at work and two ppl start speaking in Spanish. They probably aren't talking about us, they probably just feel more comfortable talking in Spanish, but it still feels like, "Well, we don't want them to hear what we're saying, so let's talk in a different language." It's kind of like you and your friend speaking in some secret in front of others. It's rude.

joselo2

Yeah, I agree it's rude if non speakers of the language are present. It can get awkward if you at a gathereing where some speak only english and some only spanish (most spanish speakers i know do speak english though), but I always do my best to make people feel included. I know how isolating it felt before I spoke good English so I understand.

rml_16

We have asshats over here stateside as well that say the same thing. I just saw a bumper sticker saying something like that the other day.

I think if you're going to move to a country, you should learn the common language of that country. I think that is very important.

However, I see nothing wrong with speaking one's native language with other speakers of that language even once you've learned the common language.

That said, if you're a tourist in a country, I wouldn't expect you to speak the language.

What do you mean when you say "move to a country"? Cause we have bases all over the world and not many Americans try to learn the language. Same goes with American Expats in other places. We just expect everyone to speak English.

Are you seriously trying to pick this fight with me?

musicteacher40

Yeah that was pretty rude. It is one thing if you move somewhere permanently and make no attempt to learn the language, but having a private conversation in your native language when you're fluent in another one is completely different.

***THIS***

I will add this... If you are in a country, anytime you do business, I think you must do your level best to communicate in the country's language, rather than communicating in your native tongue... but in this situation, it was a private conversation, I think it's okay!