Sugar is scary..
Replies
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What if I put Nutella on the ice cream and cookies? Does that make it healthier?:bigsmile: Or worse?:sad:Sugar has NO nutritional value and is NOT healthy!
So. You're saying ice cream and cookies was a bad idea for dinner?
Well nuts.
Well, no....if you put nuts on the ice cream and cookies dinner, that makes it healthier. :laugh: :bigsmile:
I didn't. I don't like nuts.0 -
What if I put Nutella on the ice cream and cookies? Does that make it healthier?:bigsmile: Or worse?:sad:Sugar has NO nutritional value and is NOT healthy!
So. You're saying ice cream and cookies was a bad idea for dinner?
Well nuts.
Well, no....if you put nuts on the ice cream and cookies dinner, that makes it healthier. :laugh: :bigsmile:
I didn't. I don't like nuts.
Definitely healthier!
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Big food will do everything in their power to deny it including placing people on this site.
What is "Big Food"?
I don't know, but they are out to get us!!!!0 -
The amount of free glucose in your blood is only about a teaspoon (5g). Our liver and our insulin mechanism keeps it at that low level. (Hence the reason why diabetics run the risk of dying - too much or not enough glucose). Healthy systems are pretty good. We don't actually need to have any carbohydrates. Yep. None. (No carbs - simple ones like glucose, fructose, sucrose, moderately simple like rice, wheat, etc, or complex ones such as in leafy veges). As stated, we can get by on protein (need 9 essential amino acids) and fats (only 3 or 4 essential triglycerides). We make the rest. We need some other nutrients and we can get them from veges or meats. Just ask the Inuit. Western conventional recommendation is to have about 45% to 55% of our diet as carbs or about 150gm or about 600 Calories. The Paleo diet,; the South Beach Diet; Atkins diet; the LCHF diets all say that the amount should probably be much lower - about 50gm. In fact the Atkins drops it to about 15gm during the first 2 weeks.Your brain can fuel itself just fine on ketones, it doesn't need sugar. But what happens if we don't keep them to once in a while and instead have them daily but in moderation and make it fit into our daily numbers?
Why? That's an busy area for research, but fructose has no hunger feedback mechanism. And protein and fat provides more appetite suppression than carbohydrates (either simple sugars or starchs).. Hence the reason most of these diets cut the carbs, try to eliminate added sugar (both fructose and glucose) and up the protein levels. E.g. meal replacement mixes re mostly protein. Like everything, it is not black or white, but the simple guidelines should be (1) eliminate added sugar (2) don't eat anything with more than about 3% sugar (except whole fruit); don't eat anything with "lite" in its name; and substitute protein or fat for carbs. (e.g. Eat a slightly larger piece of chicken/fish/ tofu/beef, and cut out the bun. 100 calories each, the protein will allow your appetite to work normally).
If I remember correctly, the Inuit has a short lifespan, probably from all the dietary saturated fat clogging their arteries.0 -
The amount of free glucose in your blood is only about a teaspoon (5g). Our liver and our insulin mechanism keeps it at that low level. (Hence the reason why diabetics run the risk of dying - too much or not enough glucose). Healthy systems are pretty good. We don't actually need to have any carbohydrates. Yep. None. (No carbs - simple ones like glucose, fructose, sucrose, moderately simple like rice, wheat, etc, or complex ones such as in leafy veges). As stated, we can get by on protein (need 9 essential amino acids) and fats (only 3 or 4 essential triglycerides). We make the rest. We need some other nutrients and we can get them from veges or meats. Just ask the Inuit. Western conventional recommendation is to have about 45% to 55% of our diet as carbs or about 150gm or about 600 Calories. The Paleo diet,; the South Beach Diet; Atkins diet; the LCHF diets all say that the amount should probably be much lower - about 50gm. In fact the Atkins drops it to about 15gm during the first 2 weeks.Your brain can fuel itself just fine on ketones, it doesn't need sugar. But what happens if we don't keep them to once in a while and instead have them daily but in moderation and make it fit into our daily numbers?
Why? That's an busy area for research, but fructose has no hunger feedback mechanism. And protein and fat provides more appetite suppression than carbohydrates (either simple sugars or starchs).. Hence the reason most of these diets cut the carbs, try to eliminate added sugar (both fructose and glucose) and up the protein levels. E.g. meal replacement mixes re mostly protein. Like everything, it is not black or white, but the simple guidelines should be (1) eliminate added sugar (2) don't eat anything with more than about 3% sugar (except whole fruit); don't eat anything with "lite" in its name; and substitute protein or fat for carbs. (e.g. Eat a slightly larger piece of chicken/fish/ tofu/beef, and cut out the bun. 100 calories each, the protein will allow your appetite to work normally).
^This. Thank you. Reasoning with fact is sooooo much better. Bravo. Did I say thank you?0 -
What if I put Nutella on the ice cream and cookies? Does that make it healthier?:bigsmile: Or worse?:sad:Sugar has NO nutritional value and is NOT healthy!
So. You're saying ice cream and cookies was a bad idea for dinner?
Well nuts.
Well, no....if you put nuts on the ice cream and cookies dinner, that makes it healthier. :laugh: :bigsmile:
I didn't. I don't like nuts.
Makes it taste better, at the very least.0 -
Refined sugar is ****, so as the high fructose corn syrup. The good sugars are the one that are in fruits, whole grain products, starchy food like sweet potatoes etc, there are also good sugars like maple syrup and agave nectar. Your body runs in sugar, glucose, without it you would die so don't be afraid. Eat as much natural and unprocessed stuff that you can, and indulge from time to time if you want to, and you'll be fine.
Yeah... hate to break this to you, but maple syrup and agave nectar are BOTH processed and refined. If you're going to say sugar is bad, you need to clarify to mean all added sugar -- not naturally occurring sugar. Because even with whole grain products, they are once again, 'refined' and processed. The only real way to avoid sugar is to eat only meat and non-carby/starchy veg. And I say pfffft! Who wants to live that way? Not me! I may live to be 100, but why would I want to if I'm miserable each day? I'd rather live life in moderation. And for the record, my Granny lived to be the ripe old age of 100. And her favorite thing was coffee and dessert! She didn't have diabetes, heart disease, or an even remotely fatty liver. She ate lots of home-grown food and not so home-grown stuff in the mix. It's BALANCE. So to the OP, you're doing more damage stressing and worrying than just living and eating in moderation. If you want to go whole hog and ditch it, then do it because you want to and it's sustainable for you. If not, do what the vast majority of healthy people do and do all things in moderation and be HAPPY!0 -
And next week it will be something else that's supposed to be " bad" for us. a while back it was eggs then cheese the list goes on.
Everything in moderation is a good thing!0 -
If I remember correctly, the Inuit has a short lifespan, probably from all the dietary saturated fat clogging their arteries.
The Inuit traditionally had very low incidence of cardiovascular disease.0 -
Food availability of glucose and fat, but not fructose, increased in the US between 1970 and 2009: analysis of the USDA food availability data system
http://www.nutritionj.com/content/12/1/1300 -
Sugar is just another food. Stop being scared of food. Moderation in everything including water.. because too much of it will kill you too.0
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EXCESS REFINED sugar is bad. The apple I mix with my cottage cheese in the morning has sugar, but the apple is NOT bad.0
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Sugar is just another food. Stop being scared of food. Moderation in everything including water.. because too much of it will kill you too.
^This^0 -
Your brain can fuel itself just fine on ketones, it doesn't need sugar. But what happens if we don't keep them to once in a while and instead have them daily but in moderation and make it fit into our daily numbers?
:noway: uhh, I trust you have heard of ketoacidosis?0 -
If I remember correctly, the Inuit has a short lifespan, probably from all the dietary saturated fat clogging their arteries.
The Inuit traditionally had very low incidence of cardiovascular disease.
true.
If I remember correctly, the lifespan was shortened from unbalanced omega fats.They typically had a high amount of Omega3 and low amount of Omega 6, causing people to stoke and bleed out. Quick we now need to cause mass hysteria about the dangers of Omega 3!0 -
Create a post about it, quick.0
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Big food will do everything in their power to deny it including placing people on this site.
< still waiting for my kick back from big sugar...
you conspiracy type people are hilarious..
OP - if you are eating in a deficit, and working out then you can consume sugar and will be fine. obviously, if you are eating 500 calories a day over maintenance in cookies, ice cream, etc etc then you will gain weight..0 -
"Terrifying"? Oh please. Sugar is just sugar, nothing scary about it. Cancer and Alzheimer's are scary. A-hole Rebublicans shutting down the government because they didn't get their way is scary. Diabetes is scary ( ask my husband...)
I find this interesting (and am not being snide) that you just said "sugar is sugar, nothing scary about it" and then "Diabetes is scary." Assuming we're talking about Type 2 diabetes, the two are at least somewhat linked. If you were referring to Type 1 diabetes, then I misunderstood, and apologize for even bringing it up.
Water and drowning are linked
driving a car can lead to death too....0 -
If I remember correctly, the Inuit has a short lifespan, probably from all the dietary saturated fat clogging their arteries.
The Inuit traditionally had very low incidence of cardiovascular disease.
true.
If I remember correctly, the lifespan was shortened from unbalanced omega fats.They typically had a high amount of Omega3 and low amount of Omega 6, causing people to stoke and bleed out. Quick we now need to cause mass hysteria about the dangers of Omega 3!
Big Food is purposely keeping canned tuna off the grocery store shelves in order to kill us all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!0 -
If I remember correctly, the Inuit has a short lifespan, probably from all the dietary saturated fat clogging their arteries.
The Inuit traditionally had very low incidence of cardiovascular disease.
true.
If I remember correctly, the lifespan was shortened from unbalanced omega fats.They typically had a high amount of Omega3 and low amount of Omega 6, causing people to stoke and bleed out. Quick we now need to cause mass hysteria about the dangers of Omega 3!
Big Food is purposely keeping canned tuna off the grocery store shelves in order to kill us all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
hahahah!0 -
No, not misreading. Sugar is almost never stored as fat. It is burned directly for energy, and extra is converted to glycogen and stored in the muscles. When the muscles are full, more glycogen is stored in the liver. Only when all of that is completely full (which is extremely rare because your muscles use glycogen for just about every movement) will sugar be converted to fat for storage. The body will store anywhere from 1300-1800 grams of glycogen when full, depending on individual need.
For the record, the sugar in fruit and the sugar in HFCS are the EXACT SAME SUGARS. If one is good, then both are good, if one is bad, then both are bad. You're creating a dilemma where none exists. Sugar is just a carbohydrate, it's used for energy by your brain, organs, and muscles in the form of glycogen. Very, very rarely is sugar ever stored as fat.I just don't know what to think.![:\](https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/resources/emoji/confused.png ":\")
I mean I know sugars in fruit are good but like, the high fructose corn syrup stuff? Idk man. :c It's hard to know with all these different sources saying different things.
As for the poster talking about Lustig; Lustig has been completely debunked. His entire argument is based on cherry picked science, and even blatant lies (eg: Japan doesn't consume fructose, which is completely false.) He bases his conclusions on old research on children (he's a pediatrician) that has no relevance to grown adults (even though he preaches this toward adults) while completely ignoring both older and newer research that directly refutes his claims.
Edited for typos.
Sugar is very rarely stored as fat? What? I'm sure I'm misreading this.
The vast majority of fat in a stored fat cell is from dietary fatty acids, which is where the misguided "eating fat makes you fat" myth came from.
Then explain how type 1 diabetics can manipulate their weight by with holding their insulin (insulin anorexia) to maintain incredibly thin bodies and consequentially incredibly high blood sugar levels. Insulin takes sugar from the bloodstream into cells - including fat cells. No insulin, the sugars just float through the system - the kidneys attempt to eliminate some - but the person can stay incredibly thin with this method. I know one personally who is blind before her 20's from the damage of utilizing this "keep thin" plan.0 -
Your brain can fuel itself just fine on ketones, it doesn't need sugar. But what happens if we don't keep them to once in a while and instead have them daily but in moderation and make it fit into our daily numbers?
:noway: uhh, I trust you have heard of ketoacidosis?
It's ketosis - not the same thing as ketoacidosis. Ketoacidosis is dangerous - ketosis is not.0 -
You're trying to use an anecdotal example of someone with a serious illness and trying to apply that to the average, healthy population? Diabetes is a serious disease that changes the way the human body operates.
No, not misreading. Sugar is almost never stored as fat. It is burned directly for energy, and extra is converted to glycogen and stored in the muscles. When the muscles are full, more glycogen is stored in the liver. Only when all of that is completely full (which is extremely rare because your muscles use glycogen for just about every movement) will sugar be converted to fat for storage. The body will store anywhere from 1300-1800 grams of glycogen when full, depending on individual need.
For the record, the sugar in fruit and the sugar in HFCS are the EXACT SAME SUGARS. If one is good, then both are good, if one is bad, then both are bad. You're creating a dilemma where none exists. Sugar is just a carbohydrate, it's used for energy by your brain, organs, and muscles in the form of glycogen. Very, very rarely is sugar ever stored as fat.I just don't know what to think. I mean I know sugars in fruit are good but like, the high fructose corn syrup stuff? Idk man. :c It's hard to know with all these different sources saying different things.
As for the poster talking about Lustig; Lustig has been completely debunked. His entire argument is based on cherry picked science, and even blatant lies (eg: Japan doesn't consume fructose, which is completely false.) He bases his conclusions on old research on children (he's a pediatrician) that has no relevance to grown adults (even though he preaches this toward adults) while completely ignoring both older and newer research that directly refutes his claims.
Edited for typos.
Sugar is very rarely stored as fat? What? I'm sure I'm misreading this.
The vast majority of fat in a stored fat cell is from dietary fatty acids, which is where the misguided "eating fat makes you fat" myth came from.
Then explain how type 1 diabetics can manipulate their weight by with holding their insulin (insulin anorexia) to maintain incredibly thin bodies and consequentially incredibly high blood sugar levels. Insulin takes sugar from the bloodstream into cells - including fat cells. No insulin, the sugars just float through the system - the kidneys attempt to eliminate some - but the person can stay incredibly thin with this method. I know one personally who is blind before her 20's from the damage of utilizing this "keep thin" plan.
And for the record, insulin moves glucose into muscles, organs, and the liver. The liver will convert glucose into glycerol once all glycogen stores are full. The glycerols get combined into triglycerides, and then the triglycerides transport themselves to adipose cells. Insulin has nothing to do with it.0 -
I see absolutely nothing in any of those links that disputes my statement. I see quite a bit of fear mongering and alarmism, rat studies that don't correlate with human studies, and a few myths as well.
No, not misreading. Sugar is almost never stored as fat. It is burned directly for energy, and extra is converted to glycogen and stored in the muscles. When the muscles are full, more glycogen is stored in the liver. Only when all of that is completely full (which is extremely rare because your muscles use glycogen for just about every movement) will sugar be converted to fat for storage. The body will store anywhere from 1300-1800 grams of glycogen when full, depending on individual need.
For the record, the sugar in fruit and the sugar in HFCS are the EXACT SAME SUGARS. If one is good, then both are good, if one is bad, then both are bad. You're creating a dilemma where none exists. Sugar is just a carbohydrate, it's used for energy by your brain, organs, and muscles in the form of glycogen. Very, very rarely is sugar ever stored as fat.I just don't know what to think. I mean I know sugars in fruit are good but like, the high fructose corn syrup stuff? Idk man. :c It's hard to know with all these different sources saying different things.
As for the poster talking about Lustig; Lustig has been completely debunked. His entire argument is based on cherry picked science, and even blatant lies (eg: Japan doesn't consume fructose, which is completely false.) He bases his conclusions on old research on children (he's a pediatrician) that has no relevance to grown adults (even though he preaches this toward adults) while completely ignoring both older and newer research that directly refutes his claims.
Edited for typos.
Sugar is very rarely stored as fat? What? I'm sure I'm misreading this.
The vast majority of fat in a stored fat cell is from dietary fatty acids, which is where the misguided "eating fat makes you fat" myth came from.
Would you be willing to send some supporting information with this? I'm not finding what you're finding. I'll go first:
http://authoritynutrition.com/4-ways-sugar-makes-you-fat/
http://uhs.berkeley.edu/facstaff/pdf/healthmatters/NutritionActionSugarBellyApril 2012.pdf
http://www.foodandhealing.com/articles/article-sugar.htm
http://crossfitrockwall.typepad.com/crossfit_rockwall/sugar.html
The first link is all alarmist about fructose. The part that it completely ignores is that fructose is very rarely eaten alone (it doesn't exist alone in any food,) so all the studies about how pure fructose compares to pure glucose are irrelevant, because fructose is consumed with glucose 100% of the time, meaning that all the satiety, leptin, and ghrelin signals are still being sent and received just fine in real life.
The second link just said overconsumption of sugar is problematic due to overconsumption of calories.
The last two links were alarmist blog entries.
Look up glycogenesis.0 -
Your brain can fuel itself just fine on ketones, it doesn't need sugar. But what happens if we don't keep them to once in a while and instead have them daily but in moderation and make it fit into our daily numbers?
:noway: uhh, I trust you have heard of ketoacidosis?
It's ketosis - not the same thing as ketoacidosis. Ketoacidosis is dangerous - ketosis is not.
Disagree - how do you think a state of ketoacidosis occurs? Its from the body being forced to survive off ketones. Ketosis is the body's emergency back up plan so the brain doesn't starve due to the blood brain barrier during times when glucose is scarce. I've seen many an animal deteriorate from ketosis into ketoacidosis due to an unobserved prolonged state of ketogenesis.0 -
Knowledge is power and Lack of knowledge is dangerous.0
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This content has been removed.
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You're trying to use an anecdotal example of someone with a serious illness and trying to apply that to the average, healthy population? Diabetes is a serious disease that changes the way the human body operates.
No, not misreading. Sugar is almost never stored as fat. It is burned directly for energy, and extra is converted to glycogen and stored in the muscles. When the muscles are full, more glycogen is stored in the liver. Only when all of that is completely full (which is extremely rare because your muscles use glycogen for just about every movement) will sugar be converted to fat for storage. The body will store anywhere from 1300-1800 grams of glycogen when full, depending on individual need.
For the record, the sugar in fruit and the sugar in HFCS are the EXACT SAME SUGARS. If one is good, then both are good, if one is bad, then both are bad. You're creating a dilemma where none exists. Sugar is just a carbohydrate, it's used for energy by your brain, organs, and muscles in the form of glycogen. Very, very rarely is sugar ever stored as fat.I just don't know what to think. I mean I know sugars in fruit are good but like, the high fructose corn syrup stuff? Idk man. :c It's hard to know with all these different sources saying different things.
As for the poster talking about Lustig; Lustig has been completely debunked. His entire argument is based on cherry picked science, and even blatant lies (eg: Japan doesn't consume fructose, which is completely false.) He bases his conclusions on old research on children (he's a pediatrician) that has no relevance to grown adults (even though he preaches this toward adults) while completely ignoring both older and newer research that directly refutes his claims.
Edited for typos.
Sugar is very rarely stored as fat? What? I'm sure I'm misreading this.
The vast majority of fat in a stored fat cell is from dietary fatty acids, which is where the misguided "eating fat makes you fat" myth came from.
Then explain how type 1 diabetics can manipulate their weight by with holding their insulin (insulin anorexia) to maintain incredibly thin bodies and consequentially incredibly high blood sugar levels. Insulin takes sugar from the bloodstream into cells - including fat cells. No insulin, the sugars just float through the system - the kidneys attempt to eliminate some - but the person can stay incredibly thin with this method. I know one personally who is blind before her 20's from the damage of utilizing this "keep thin" plan.
And for the record, insulin moves glucose into muscles, organs, and the liver. The liver will convert glucose into glycerol once all glycogen stores are full. The glycerols get combined into triglycerides, and then the triglycerides transport themselves to adipose cells. Insulin has nothing to do with it.
No, diabetic anorexia is a true illness - not anecdotal at all. My example was anecdotal. I'm not using diabetes to explain that sugar is bad - I am using it to point out that sugar, insulin and fat are tied together. Insulin is not just used in diabetics - we all have insulin. My point is how would withholding insulin to prevent weight gain work in this disease if insulin, fat cells and sugar are NOT related. So based on what you said, with holding insulin would not affect weight, but this is not true. Diabetic anorexia is the proof of this. Diabetic anorexia would only work in the T1 diabetic - where there is no insulin. But it is an example of how insulin works.
So you are essentially saying that sugar would not affect fat - and I am presenting an opposing case where it does.
"Once glucose is inside the liver, glucose is phosphorylated into glucose-6-phosphate, or G6P. G6P is further metabolized into triglycerides, fatty acids, glycogen or energy. Glycogen is the form in which the body stores glucose. The liver can only store about 100 g of glucose in the form of glycogen. The muscles also store glycogen. Muscles can store approximately 500 g of glycogen. Because of the limited storage areas, any carbohydrates that are consumed beyond the storage capacity are converted to and stored as fat. There is practically no limit on how many calories the body can store as fat."
Read more: http://www.livestrong.com/article/264767-how-is-excess-glucose-stored/#ixzz2gyApB0pL
From my understanding ALL excess energy gets stored as fat.0 -
Bump to read later0
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Your brain can fuel itself just fine on ketones, it doesn't need sugar. But what happens if we don't keep them to once in a while and instead have them daily but in moderation and make it fit into our daily numbers?
:noway: uhh, I trust you have heard of ketoacidosis?
It's ketosis - not the same thing as ketoacidosis. Ketoacidosis is dangerous - ketosis is not.
Disagree - how do you think a state of ketoacidosis occurs? Its from the body being forced to survive off ketones. Ketosis is the body's emergency back up plan so the brain doesn't starve due to the blood brain barrier during times when glucose is scarce. I've seen many an animal deteriorate from ketosis into ketoacidosis due to an unobserved prolonged state of ketogenesis.
"Ketosis Vs. Ketoacidosis
If you follow a diet that limits your daily carb intake below 50 g a day, it will promote ketosis. Ketosis simply means that your body mostly utilizes fat and ketones, which correspond to a byproduct of fat burning, as its principal source of energy instead of utilizing sugar derived from carbohydrates. Ketosis is not dangerous and allows your body to better control your blood sugar levels and diabetes, while losing weight if you need to. Ketoacidosis, on the other hand, only happens in diabetics treated with insulin injection when their blood sugar levels gets totally out of control. A diabetic in ketoacidosis has blood ketone levels more than 10 times higher the levels seen in ketosis. Ketoacidosis is a serious condition that requires immediate medical attention."
Read more: http://www.livestrong.com/article/495714-atkins-and-diabetic-ketosis/#ixzz2gyDBRwQV
ketoacidosis requires a saturation of ketones - not very likely to occur. I've taken care of 1000's of patients - and never seen a state of ketoacidosis without the presence of hyperglycemia. I wouldn't declare it impossible to achieve on low carb diet - but unlikely. Still, ketosis and ketoacisosis remain separate things - although possibly related.
http://www.themedicalbiochemistrypage.org/diabetic-ketoacidosis.php0
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