PALEO: pros, cons and whatever else you may think?

SoilFoodWeb

"The Paleo Diet: Claims vs. Evidence" by Alan Aragon

http://www.nsca.com/uploadedFiles/NSCA/Inactive_Content/Program_Books/PTC_2013_Program_Book/Aragon.pdf

bcattoes

I'm not sure your last sentence really describes the Paleo diet. And while I am happy that you found something that works for you, I think your post would be more correct if it started with "I do believe its better for me". If it was really best for everyone, why in the world would you not be feeding your children a Paleo diet?

This is pretty much where I fall in context of a paleo diet. I have no studies to back it up but for me, I just feel better when I stick to a paleo template. Like any other diet it's there for anyone who wants to try it... for whatever reason they want to try it.

Agreed Paleojoe, and I don't think children need to follow anything other than eating healthy...(unless they have food senstivities like my daughter has to dairy) Children are growing at a rapid rate (especially their brains) and require so much more in their diet. As adults we have totally different requirements for food compared to a growing child.

I totally agree that children need to eat heatlhy. But that brings me back to the question of why the Paleo Diet excludes healthy foods.

paleojoe

I'm not sure your last sentence really describes the Paleo diet. And while I am happy that you found something that works for you, I think your post would be more correct if it started with "I do believe its better for me". If it was really best for everyone, why in the world would you not be feeding your children a Paleo diet?

This is pretty much where I fall in context of a paleo diet. I have no studies to back it up but for me, I just feel better when I stick to a paleo template. Like any other diet it's there for anyone who wants to try it... for whatever reason they want to try it.

Agreed Paleojoe, and I don't think children need to follow anything other than eating healthy...(unless they have food senstivities like my daughter has to dairy) Children are growing at a rapid rate (especially their brains) and require so much more in their diet. As adults we have totally different requirements for food compared to a growing child.

I totally agree that children need to eat heatlhy. But that brings me back to the question of why the Paleo Diet excludes healthy foods.

What "healthy" foods does the paleo diet exclude? What nutrients are missing when one adopts a paleo diet?

mmipanda

It sure is a shame that so many people here are solely interested in picking apart and trying to discredit something that other people find success with.

'You lost weight, cured what you thought were chronic ailments, and are completely happy with this lifestyle? NO U R WRONG EAT UR POPTARTS FFS'

Nobody said that. Ever.

I know, its a parody.

Or a straw man.

nope, because this happened:

I missed round 1

i'm in favour of it. I did it properly for a few months and felt amazing. Dropped weight really easy, full of energy, didn't miss normal foods at all. But I've been off it for a while - moving house meant I just didn't have the kitchen time needed. Still trying to make good choices and I haven't gained any weight back. But I definitely feel better eating paleo. I'm still keeping up some parts that have become a habit, like my morning coffee made on almond milk.

paleo did not lead to your weight loss...eating in a caloric deficit did ...

If paleo made you lose weight, then why did you not gain it all back when you stopped paleo?

So because someone told you the truth they're telling you to eat pop tarts? Cognitive dissonance much?

no, but you see it in pretty much every 'healthy food' thread. The argument that there is no such thing as healthy food, people x and y eat piles of poptarts and still lose weight, etc etc. For some reason poptarts and pizza are the go-to examples. Now, because that guy flat out told me that eating paleo has nothing to do with weight loss, we can see that he is in the cals in/cals out camp. So I refered to poptarts, banking on the likelihood of that guy & other people here making those sort of comments in the past.



Also, I find it really interesting (or maybe frustrating) how you guys ignore everything you don't have an argument against. The majority of my first post was ignored and only the weight loss was mentioned (to argue against). You quote it and say 'because he told you the truth' - again, ignoring the rest of my post and focusing solely on the weight loss aspect. Nobody responded to my subsequent story about how I was 3x more successful eating paleo than everything in moderation. But a couple of you have to jump in and try to discredit a post that was clearly an exaggerated parody of commonly held opinions.

AND while I'm at it, not once have I said that you don't need a caloric deficit. I do not disagree with that. But there is more to health than weightloss. And for lots of people, there are better ways to lose weight than eating 1500 calories of icecream and pizza every day.

mmapags

It sure is a shame that so many people here are solely interested in picking apart and trying to discredit something that other people find success with.

'You lost weight, cured what you thought were chronic ailments, and are completely happy with this lifestyle? NO U R WRONG EAT UR POPTARTS FFS'

Nobody said that. Ever.

I know, its a parody.

Or a straw man.

nope, because this happened:

I missed round 1

i'm in favour of it. I did it properly for a few months and felt amazing. Dropped weight really easy, full of energy, didn't miss normal foods at all. But I've been off it for a while - moving house meant I just didn't have the kitchen time needed. Still trying to make good choices and I haven't gained any weight back. But I definitely feel better eating paleo. I'm still keeping up some parts that have become a habit, like my morning coffee made on almond milk.

paleo did not lead to your weight loss...eating in a caloric deficit did ...

If paleo made you lose weight, then why did you not gain it all back when you stopped paleo?

So because someone told you the truth they're telling you to eat pop tarts? Cognitive dissonance much?

no, but you see it in pretty much every 'healthy food' thread. The argument that there is no such thing as healthy food, people x and y eat piles of poptarts and still lose weight, etc etc. For some reason poptarts and pizza are the go-to examples. Now, because that guy flat out told me that eating paleo has nothing to do with weight loss, we can see that he is in the cals in/cals out camp. So I refered to poptarts, banking on the likelihood of that guy & other people here making those sort of comments in the past.



Also, I find it really interesting (or maybe frustrating) how you guys ignore everything you don't have an argument against. The majority of my first post was ignored and only the weight loss was mentioned (to argue against). You quote it and say 'because he told you the truth' - again, ignoring the rest of my post and focusing solely on the weight loss aspect. Nobody responded to my subsequent story about how I was 3x more successful eating paleo than everything in moderation. But a couple of you have to jump in and try to discredit a post that was clearly an exaggerated parody of commonly held opinions.

AND while I'm at it, not once have I said that you don't need a caloric deficit. I do not disagree with that. But there is more to health than weightloss. And for lots of people, there are better ways to lose weight than eating 1500 calories of icecream and pizza every day.

I'm not sure which "first post" your talking about but if you mean the one where you, your partner and some friends "feel better" eating paleo, that is what would be called anecdotal evidence. If that's how you want to eat, go right ahead. But that does not make an evidence based case for any health or metabolic superiority for the "paleo diet". Who knows, could just be placebo effect.

As far as discrediting you, no one really needs to do that. With statements like the one bolded above and the poptarts one, you are doing quite a good job of that yourself.

Mr_Knight

Nobody responded to my subsequent story about how I was 3x more successful eating paleo than everything in moderation.

Then be happy you found a path that works for you!

mmipanda

I'm not sure which "first post" your talking about but if you mean the one where you, your partner and some friends "feel better" eating paleo, that is what would be called anecdotal evidence. If that's how you want to eat, go right ahead. But that does not make an evidence based case for any health or metabolic superiority for the "paleo diet". Who knows, could just be placebo effect.

As far as discrediting you, no one really needs to do that. With statements like the one bolded above and the poptarts one, you are doing quite a good job of that yourself.

Cool. I don't believe I have attempted to use my own experience as universal evidence, or told anyone they should do things my way. Just said that it works for me & I like it. I've then had people like yourself tell me that I'm wrong and pick fights about it. I could maybe understand this if I were endangering my health in any way, but I don't understand your motivation.

Regarding your second point.. If there is no such thing as healthy or unhealthy food, I don't see how I have discredited myself. I'm sure most people here would say that you would still lose weight eating 1500 cals of icecream every day. Sure its an extreme example, but one I have seen used on this forum numerous times.

Nobody responded to my subsequent story about how I was 3x more successful eating paleo than everything in moderation.

Then be happy you found a path that works for you!

thank you, I am! I'm back on it after a long break and I actually really missed it. I ate so much delicious pork belly last night

paleojoe

thank you, I am! I'm back on it after a long break and I actually really missed it. I ate so much delicious pork belly last night

mmapags

I'm not sure which "first post" your talking about but if you mean the one where you, your partner and some friends "feel better" eating paleo, that is what would be called anecdotal evidence. If that's how you want to eat, go right ahead. But that does not make an evidence based case for any health or metabolic superiority for the "paleo diet". Who knows, could just be placebo effect.

As far as discrediting you, no one really needs to do that. With statements like the one bolded above and the poptarts one, you are doing quite a good job of that yourself.

Cool. I don't believe I have attempted to use my own experience as universal evidence, or told anyone they should do things my way. Just said that it works for me & I like it. I've then had people like yourself tell me that I'm wrong and pick fights about it. I could maybe understand this if I were endangering my health in any way, but I don't understand your motivation.

Regarding your second point.. If there is no such thing as healthy or unhealthy food, I don't see how I have discredited myself. I'm sure most people here would say that you would still lose weight eating 1500 cals of icecream every day. Sure its an extreme example, but one I have seen used on this forum numerous times.

I have no quibble with the fact that you want to eat "paleo" and you believe you feel better doing it. If that works for you, go right ahead, as I've already said. There is no health risk to eating paleo, but, I believe there is no healthy benefit either. There has also not been any factual evidence presented that it does. FTR, I have tried it, studied it, researched it and came to the conclusion that it is restrictive with no attendant benefit. I didn't lose weight any better and I didn't "feel" any better.

Where I do have a problem with your posts is that you infer the comparison of eating "paleo" as the only other alternative to eating poptarts or 1500 calories a day of pizza and ice cream. That is a logical fallacy called excluding the middle. You compare what you are doing to something so ridiculous that by comparison, what you are doing looks clearly superior.

Well, news flash: no one is recommending a diet of all pop tarts, pizza and ice cream for optimum health. That is just a bunch of useless hyperbole. What many have said is, if you've met you macro nutrient goals for the day with a varied and healthy diet of mostly whole foods and you have calories left, eat whatever you want, including poptarts, ice cream or whatever. (I'm leaving pizza out because, depending on what is part of the pizza, it can be just fine for nutrition and health).

That whole distorted, hyperbolic line of reasoning is what diminishes your credibility and brought my comments. As far as how you want to eat and that it works for you, power to you.

mmapags

Sorry, I seem to have screwed up the quotes and can't figure out how to fix it!

bcattoes

I'm not sure your last sentence really describes the Paleo diet. And while I am happy that you found something that works for you, I think your post would be more correct if it started with "I do believe its better for me". If it was really best for everyone, why in the world would you not be feeding your children a Paleo diet?

This is pretty much where I fall in context of a paleo diet. I have no studies to back it up but for me, I just feel better when I stick to a paleo template. Like any other diet it's there for anyone who wants to try it... for whatever reason they want to try it.

Agreed Paleojoe, and I don't think children need to follow anything other than eating healthy...(unless they have food senstivities like my daughter has to dairy) Children are growing at a rapid rate (especially their brains) and require so much more in their diet. As adults we have totally different requirements for food compared to a growing child.

I totally agree that children need to eat heatlhy. But that brings me back to the question of why the Paleo Diet excludes healthy foods.

What "healthy" foods does the paleo diet exclude? What nutrients are missing when one adopts a paleo diet?

Beans and whole grains are healthy and excluded. I don't know that any nutrients are missing if one adopts a paleo diet. But it still seems silly to say "don't eat this" just because it's not necessary for a healthy diet.

I can't think of any healthy food that one couldn't exclude and not become nutrient deficient. Can you?

bcattoes

There are no nutrients excluded with paleo. But I think stressing a very strict diet, like labelling potatos, peanut butter, etc type foods as a no no to a child might make them a little concerned about "diet" too much...eating healthly but gotta let kids be kids. Those are just my thoughts on it.

Well, that's kind of my point. The Paleo Diet says legumes and grains should be excluded because they are unhealthy. It says they damage the body. What you choose to eat is your business, I'm just discussing the diet itself. If one really believes the Paleo Diet philosophy then why would they allow their children to eat foods that damage their body?

But, as I've said before, I think there are very, very few people who believe all that nonsense. More likely they just find legumes and grains the easiest things to exclude from the their diet to create a deficit. And again, that is fine as a personal preference. But saying these things are unhealthy for humans? Not true and not fine, IMO.

darkangel45422

There are no nutrients excluded with paleo. But I think stressing a very strict diet, like labelling potatos, peanut butter, etc type foods as a no no to a child might make them a little concerned about "diet" too much...eating healthly but gotta let kids be kids. Those are just my thoughts on it.

Well, that's kind of my point. The Paleo Diet says legumes and grains should be excluded because they are unhealthy. It says they damage the body. What you choose to eat is your business, I'm just discussing the diet itself. If one really believes the Paleo Diet philosophy then why would they allow their children to eat foods that damage their body?

But, as I've said before, I think there are very, very few people who believe all that nonsense. More likely they just find legumes and grains the easiest things to exclude from the their diet to create a deficit. And again, that is fine as a personal preference. But saying these things are unhealthy for humans? Not true and not fine, IMO.

Well I can't speak for everyone but a lot of people who eat ancestrally do in fact believe grains (there's a little more dissension about legumes once they've been properly prepared) are unhealthy, or at the very least not healthy. It's not at all about creating a deficit, otherwise you'd think we'd cut out high calorie things like nuts and advocate only eating low calorie foods. A lot of people who eat ancestrally don't even bother counting calories; some are in maintenance or trying to gain weight, so a deficit is the opposite of what they're looking for. Some people do honestly believe these foods are better eaten rarely.

mumblemagic

In for round 2.

Ditto

Umm.... Tritto??

also this: http://www.wannabebig.com/diet-and-nutrition/the-dirt-on-clean-eating/

paleojoe

Beans and whole grains are healthy and excluded. I don't know that any nutrients are missing if one adopts a paleo diet. But it still seems silly to say "don't eat this" just because it's not necessary for a healthy diet.

I can't think of any healthy food that one couldn't exclude and not become nutrient deficient. Can you?

What makes beans and whole grains so inherently "healthy"? I do agree that eating them is not inherently "unhealthy" but what about them makes them so healthy? What nutrients do they offer that can not be attained elsewhere?

SnicciFit

Beans and whole grains are healthy and excluded. I don't know that any nutrients are missing if one adopts a paleo diet. But it still seems silly to say "don't eat this" just because it's not necessary for a healthy diet.

I can't think of any healthy food that one couldn't exclude and not become nutrient deficient. Can you?

The idea (for me) is that by not eating the "easy" stuff like pasta & bread every day, I'm making room for things like veggies. So... no pasta = spaghetti squash, zucchini...etc. No bread = more greens. So, while pasta & bread may not be "unhealthy" (depends who you ask), by eliminating them, you now are eating more "healthier" options. If I fill my plate up with meat, veggies and fat, there isn't room for things like grains & legumes.

bcattoes

Beans and whole grains are healthy and excluded. I don't know that any nutrients are missing if one adopts a paleo diet. But it still seems silly to say "don't eat this" just because it's not necessary for a healthy diet.

I can't think of any healthy food that one couldn't exclude and not become nutrient deficient. Can you?

The idea (for me) is that by not eating the "easy" stuff like pasta & bread every day, I'm making room for things like veggies. So... no pasta = spaghetti squash, zucchini...etc. No bread = more greens. So, while pasta & bread may not be "unhealthy" (depends who you ask), by eliminating them, you now are eating more "healthier" options. If I fill my plate up with meat, veggies and fat, there isn't room for things like grains & legumes.

Well, first of all, legumes are vegetables. And they contain as many or more nutrients as other vegetables. And more fiber and protein than most other vegetables. When you eliminate legumes, you are eliminating a vegetable.

It is the notion that more non-legume vegetables and no whole grains/legumes = "healthier" that I think you'd find impossible to backup with science.

bcattoes

Beans and whole grains are healthy and excluded. I don't know that any nutrients are missing if one adopts a paleo diet. But it still seems silly to say "don't eat this" just because it's not necessary for a healthy diet.

I can't think of any healthy food that one couldn't exclude and not become nutrient deficient. Can you?

What makes beans and whole grains so inherently "healthy"? I do agree that eating them is not inherently "unhealthy" but what about them makes them so healthy? What nutrients do they offer that can not be attained elsewhere?

So, you would only consider a food healthy if it contains a nutrient that could not be obtained elsewhere?? What food is heatlhy using that criterion?

bcattoes

There are no nutrients excluded with paleo. But I think stressing a very strict diet, like labelling potatos, peanut butter, etc type foods as a no no to a child might make them a little concerned about "diet" too much...eating healthly but gotta let kids be kids. Those are just my thoughts on it.

Well, that's kind of my point. The Paleo Diet says legumes and grains should be excluded because they are unhealthy. It says they damage the body. What you choose to eat is your business, I'm just discussing the diet itself. If one really believes the Paleo Diet philosophy then why would they allow their children to eat foods that damage their body?

But, as I've said before, I think there are very, very few people who believe all that nonsense. More likely they just find legumes and grains the easiest things to exclude from the their diet to create a deficit. And again, that is fine as a personal preference. But saying these things are unhealthy for humans? Not true and not fine, IMO.

Well I can't speak for everyone but a lot of people who eat ancestrally do in fact believe grains (there's a little more dissension about legumes once they've been properly prepared) are unhealthy, or at the very least not healthy. It's not at all about creating a deficit, otherwise you'd think we'd cut out high calorie things like nuts and advocate only eating low calorie foods. A lot of people who eat ancestrally don't even bother counting calories; some are in maintenance or trying to gain weight, so a deficit is the opposite of what they're looking for. Some people do honestly believe these foods are better eaten rarely.

I understand that. And by that, I mean I understand that some people think these things are unhealthy, not that I understand why they think them unhealthy.

My post was in response to someone that chose Paleo for health, but had children that do not eat Paleo. I wondered why someone would feed their own children foods they believed were unhealthy.

paleojoe

My biggest issue with the Paleo diet is at times, it can give you a bit of information overload. Every day I feel like there is some new information that this food "can" be problematic and that food "can" be problematic. Honestly it gets to be too much... I am a believer that what you eat is important, but how you feel about what you eat is even more important.

These are the words I am trying to live by currently...

"Eat less, stress less: move more, lift more and get a good nights sleep. For physical health, that's pretty much as good as it gets."
–Brad Pilon, Eat Stop Eat